>> and, again, was your concern increasing over time? >> yes. at that point i kind of knew. >> you kind of knew what? >> that he was dead or not breathing. >> and what made you think that he was dead or not breathing at that point? >> his eyes were closeded and he was just laying there. no longer fighting or resisting. >> and, again, when you were saying fighting or resisting before, what do you mean by that, were you talking about breathing, were you talking about fight? >> breathing. >> go ahead and play it. >> what are you doing? >> still on him. you all see he's not. like, for real, you're still on him.

>> what's wrong? why are you all still on him. he's not doing nothing to you-all. >> we can stop it. did you notice anything in particular when the ambulance came about mr. floyd, the way he looked to you at that point? >> he didn't look alive. i noticed that the paramedics looked at his eyes, checked his pulse and kind of just proceeded to put him on the gurney, didn't really say anything. >> and had you previously described his body as limp? >> yeah. >> okay, you can play the rest. thank you. >> those are your partners, right?

you know that's not -- >> get on the sidewalk. >> you're not going to help him. >> sit there with your knee -- he's in handcuffs, bro. >> he's not doing nothing to you-all. >> i'm a first responder, the fact that you aren't checking his pulse or doing compressions if he needs help, you are on another level. >> that's not very professional. >> don't touch me. don't touch me. do not touch me. don't touch me. >> what's your badge number actually?

>> get back off the street. >> what's your badge number? >> get back off the street. >> i haven't said a whole word i've been standing here. i even tried to help out, didn't i? didn't i? >> you know that's wrong. >> and at that point when you stopped recording did you end up proceeding into the store? >> yeah. >> okay. we can stop it there. was it your voice asking about badge numbers and things like that? >> yes. and i think you said you said that earlier. why was that important, badge numbers? >> at that point i kind of felt like all i could do was catch what was going on with the camera and i just wanted to make sure i got everyone there.

it's why i was moving around a lot. >> and did you feel it was important for you to document what was going on? >> yes. >> how did watching all of this in the moment feel for you? >> it felt really, like, a lot to take in at first. i almost walked away at first because it was a lot to watch, but i knew it was wrong, and i couldn't just walk away even though i couldn't do anything about it. >> and since that time, since you saw this happen last year, what impact has it had on you since then? >> well, it didn't really affect me right away because i felt emotionally numb about it. i didn't run to the internet or anything. i tried to keep to myself, go on with the day and remember what i came there for.

>> and after the fact, after you had some time to process it, what did you feel? >> i felt really, like, i said, numb to the whole situation. i kind of pushed it aside because i didn't really know how to feel. it was a lot to take in. >> did you go back to cup foods after that? >> i still haven't been there to this day. >> and why is that? >> i don't want to be reminded. >> nothing further, your honor. >> mr. nelson. >> good afternoon, ma'am. >> hello.

>> just a few questions for you. do you recall being interviewed by agent peterson of the minnesota bureau of criminal apprehension? >> i believe so. >> you remember talking to two police officers about what you observed, what you saw, things of that nature? >> yes. >> and if i told you their names, would you have any reason to dispute me? >> no. >> okay. and they recorded that call, is that correct? >> yes. >> and, then again, i believe just within the last two or three days you met with the prosecution team? >> yes. >> and you told them, gave them some more information as well, correct? >> yes. >> all right. so do you recall telling agent

peterson and ryerson while were you there you observed the officer check the radial pulse? >> i said i believe he did. the two on his body i thought at one point i did see someone try. nothing changed, though. nothing in their body language or anything changed. >> were you given an opportunity to listen to your previous statement? >> no. >> were you ever given a transcript of your previous statement? >> no. >> would you disagree with me if i told you you said i even saw them check his pulse multiple times before the ambulance got there? >> i would not agree with that. >> you would not agree with that? >> yeah, because i don't remember. >> you don't remember that now? >> can you restate it?

>> sure. back when you were interviewed by the police officers in september, you told them that you saw the officers check his pulse multiple times before the ambulance got there. >> i do not believe i said multiple times. >> may i approach the witness, your honor? >> you may. >> date stamped -- point to the last underline. i ask you to read that in your mind.

so did you tell agents ryerson and peterson that you saw the officers check for a pulse multiple times? >> yes, i did, and then afterwards i told them it looked like they did not find one. >> now, you also described to the officers that you were angry. >> yes. >> and you would agree to this day that you were angry at what you saw? >> yes. >> and would you describe others in the crowd as angry as well? >> i would assume so. >> i have no further questions. >> any redirect?

>> alyssa, you were just asked some questions about a pulse. did that refresh your recollection about that portion of what you saw? >> a little bit. the day those officers came to my house, it was multiple times of being bothered, and it was kind of like they forced the interview onto me. >> okay. so thinking about it today in terms of what you saw that day, just tell the jury what you saw in terms of somebody checking a pulse. >> well, i don't exactly remember standing right there all the way because it's kind of like in and out, but rewatching the video i remember seeing, like, someone move their hands towards his wrist, his vitals, behind his back. >> and was that person mr.

chauvin? >> no. >> so that was someone else? >> yes. >> and are you unclear about whether or not that was an actual pulse check because you said they didn't change anything they were doing? >> correct. >> okay. and did you assume that if they were concerned, they would have changed what they were doing? >> yes. >> they would have gotten up, is what you would expect to happen? >> that's what i would expect them to do. >> you were asked some questions about being angry. were you upset about what was going on in front of you? >> yes. >> did you attack anybody? >> no. >> hit anybody? >> no. >> threaten the officers in any way? >> no. >> so when you say angry, what do you mean? >> i was upset because there was nothing that we could do as bystanders except watch them take this man's life in front of our eyes.

>> and when you say we, were all of you doing what you were doing, meaning not getting physical and not throwing punches or making threats to the officers? >> correct. >> nothing further. >> recross? >> no, your honor. >> thank you. you may step down. >> all right. you are watching the conclusion there of that witness testimony, an under age -- a minor female who witnessed the killing of george floyd who documented it as well. you saw the prosecution conclude the redirect after the defense asked a series of questions. we believe they're calling their next witness. let's go back into the courtroom and see what is in store.

>> members of the jury, why don't we have you go back long enough for a bathroom break. how is that? >> all right. so the court is now taking a quick bathroom break, according to judge cahill there. let's bring in our guests right now. with us is shaquille brewster in minneapolis, also with us "washington post" opinion writer and pulitzer prize winning journalist jonathan capehart, chuck rosenberg is with us, a former u.s. attorney and senior fbi official. chuck, let me begin with you, first of all, and see how this played out this afternoon with this particular witness. in part, the conclusion of the prosecution's first line of questioning and then that very brief questioning by the defense attorney that really zeroed in on two sentiments, one, the recollection of the witness, the

issue of whether or not she initially told police or investigators that she did, in fact, see the police take a pulse and as opposed to her memory and recollection now as well as the issue of anger and whether or not she was angry at what she was witnessing. what did you make of that moment by the defense attorney? >> well, it's perfectly appropriate for a defense attorney, any defense attorney, to try and extract from the testimony and from the documents he has anything that helps his client. obviously the defense attorney here thought that the fact that some police officers may have checked for a pulse at some point in time was important. and he found a way to get this particular witness to acknowledge that. he used her prior statement to law enforcement officers. he used it to refresh her recollection. that's an appropriate evidentiary technique. that said, i think the prosecution is still putting on

a very good case. what they established through this particular witness, in my view, is twofold. number one, they had her authenticate the video clips that she took. and by authenticating it, that means the government can then introduce it into evidence as an exhibit, something the jury will be able to look at later. but, second, and this is a slightly more subtle point but one that i think they are making, clearly the prosecution has shown that there was no mob. there was a small group of people, men and women. some of the folks who were standing there and taking videos of the scene were minors. they were not violent. they were not threatening. they were pleading with the officers to take care of the man in their custody. and so to the extent that the officers were distracted because there was some riot or some mob that was forming, it's simply not true. not just the testimony of these witnesses but the videos that

they took. it's an important point yet a subtle one. i think the prosecution brick by brick is continuing to build a compelling case. whether or not they prevail in the end, time will tell. there are a lot of important issues to be litigated, but they're doing a good job here. >> jonathan, that's a very important point chuck raised, and it's one that i was talking about. that is the defense here trying to portray those that were gathering around as angry and that result of that, that may have shaped the behavior of the officers in what was unfolding there. it's very telling as well, in the redirect we get that sense from the prosecution to say, wait a minute, you weren't angry. you weren't hitting anyone. you weren't violent. you were upset at the fact this man was slowly dying in front of your eyes. >> yeah, i feel like i've seen this movie before. we have all seen this movie before. the moment defense counsel had the words you were angry -- the phrase you were angry -- come out of his mouth, i felt the hair on the back of my neck

stand on end. those people were watching someone die. those people watched someone pleading for air, pleading for his mother, pleading for his life, and then that very same man went silent before them. you hear it in the video clips. those people are upset. to chuck's point, they weren't an unruly mob. they weren't riotous. they weren't lashing out in violence. they were pleading for george floyd's life. and the idea that the defense is going to use that tired old, that somehow this angry black man was getting in the way of the police doing their duty, it's insulting. i understand that he has to defend his client. i just pray to god that this

line of defense for his client fails and fails miserably because if people, black people, cannot react humanly to watching someone die at the hands of the state, at the hands of police, then black people can't do anything. and then what does that say about all people if they cannot express concern, outrage for the life of someone that is being taken whether by a civilian but especially by someone invested with the power and authority of the state, by a police officer? what does that mean about who we are? >> shaq, i know that you have been covering this from the very beginning and yet we've been talking about that video clip and the multiple angles of it as a very important piece of evidence. the family is reliving this

moment time and time again with the introduction of every one of these witnesses and every one of these different angles. that has to be extremely difficult for them. talk to us about the courtroom atmosphere today, the family, how much they are following every single one of these accounts and the testimonial witnesses? >> we know the family is in the courthouse, not the courtroom, because there's only one seat for the family of mr. floyd. i believe it's philonise. we heard george floyd's nephew say while watching that video for the first time, seeing that long video, the facebook video that went viral, be he had to walk out of that overflow room because of the pain that he was feeling while he was watching that. so this is definitely something they have said before, that they're bracing for. you're getting the sense of how emotional it is for them as they're watching this and relitigating it and seeing

angles that i'm sure they haven't seen in the past. i think one other point here is the trauma of the witnesses, the people who are testifying. when you listen to the people that we've heard from today, mr. donald williams, he was going to cup foods to get a soda. we heard from darnella who was with her cousin going to get some snacks. and then this last witness, i'm not going to name her because she's a minor or was a minor at the time, was going to get an auxiliary cord, a phone charger. and now they're thrust into this situation now testifying on national television. not only is the family of george floyd grappling with this but the witnesses. the last witness said she can't even go to cup foods, a place she went to all the time, it was a corner store for her. she can't even go anymore because she's reliving these moments. most of the witnesses we've heard from today were emotional, most of them crying as they were telling some of their testimony. you get a sense just how emotional this trial truly is. >> it is and just to tell our viewers we believe that a

witness has now been called to the stand. she is a minor. that's perhaps why we won't necessarily hear the audio in the beginning with the naming or the identity part of that. we'll bring the audio to you once we are beyond that part. >> we're going to go off audio. >> they're going to go off audio as we just heard there. chuck, let me ask you your thoughts on something i wanted to make a point about which was we understand that all the witness that is are there are there to establish the facts, to describe what they saw and what they documented. connect the dots why that is important to the charge of murder and manslaughter because i think very few people would disagree -- actually, chuck, hold that thought. let's cross back into the courtroom. we do have audio established. >> good afternoon, kaylynn. >> hello. >> how are you feeling today? >> a little nervous. a lot of anxiety. >> tell me why you have anxiety today?

>> just because of what happened, i want the truth to come out. >> okay. deep breaths. we'll take it slow, okay? if you need a break, you just let me know, all right? >> okay. >> are you ready? >> yes. >> okay. so i'm going to start with some easy questions, background questions, okay? so why don't you tell the jury how old you are. >> i'm 17 years old. >> and are you a high school student now? >> yes. i'm a senior. >> and are you in-person school or online? >> online school. >> how is that going? >> it's going good. >> almost there. >> almost there. >> and what city do you live in? >> st. paul, minnesota. >> was there a time you and your family lived in minneapolis, south minneapolis? >> yes, when i was younger. >> okay. do you still have some friends, family friends in that area? >> yes.

>> one favor, can you pause? there's a court reporter taking everything down with a stenographic machine. it will make it easier. >> i talk fast. i'll try to slow it down and make it easy for everybody. okay. so you still have friends in south minneapolis? >> yes. >> and is one of those friends named alyssa? >> yes. >> okay. so i'm going to ask you some questions about the reason you're here today. why don't you tell the jury why you're here today? >> for george floyd. >> okay. and when you say for george floyd, did you see what happened to george floyd? >> yes. >> so i'm going to ask you some questions about that, okay? >> okay.

are you ready? >> yes. >> do you need a tissue, you need a break, put up your hand and let me know. you can grab a tissue anytime you need one. so i'm going to ask you some questions about that day, the day that all this happened. so, first things first, how did you come to be in the area? what were you doing that day? >> me and alyssa why going to get snacks and an aux cord for the radio. >> and where were you headed that day? where did you want to go? >> to cup. >> and when you say cup, is that cup foods? >> yes. >> all right. so you said you were with alyssa. and how did you get there? >> we drove there. >> and who drove, you or alyssa? >> alyssa.

>> and where were you in the car? were you in the front passenger seat? >> yes. >> was it just the two of you together? >> yes. >> so she was driving, you're in the passenger seat, you're headed to cup foods. what's the first thing you notice once you get into the area? >> we heard george floyd's voice yelling out for his mom. and saying he can't breathe. >> okay. and did you notice -- well, how soon did you notice what was going on? were you still driving up when you noticed what was going on? >> yes. >> and is that when you heard from the car? >> yes. >> and what did you see as you were driving up? >> we seen three officers on top

of george floyd. >> and what did you do next? did alyssa park the car? >> yes. >> and then what happened? >> she pulled over and she asked if she should record it, and she didn't have a phone at the time, so she took my phone and recorded it. >> and what were you doing when -- did she get out of the car first? >> yes, she told me to stay in the car and stay in the car just in case anything happened. we didn't know what was going on. >> so did you stay in the car for some period of time? >> yes. >> so when you were in the car and alyssa got out of the car could you hear what was going on? >> yes, i could kind of hear what was going on. >> all right. >> i don't specifically remember exactly what was said, but i do remember hearing voices. >> so tell the jury just what

you remember noticing from where you were in the car, what were you hearing or seeing or observing? >> i heard george floyd yelling still, saying he can't breathe. and then i heard witnesses that were there saying he was unresponsive, and that's when i started hearing voices getting louder, i got out of the car. >> okay. i'm going to stop you there for just a second. you talked about george floyd. you said you're here for george floyd, and you're talking about seeing george floyd. did you know who he was at that time? >> no. >> after the fact, did you learn his name? >> yes. >> okay. so you now know him to be george floyd? >> yes. >> when you heard -- you said you heard voices getting louder.

what prompted you to get out of the car? what made you think you should get out of the car? >> i guess it was kind of just a gut feeling. >> when you said you heard voices getting louder, was there something about the tone or what was said -- >> it sounded serious. >> okay. and what made you think it was something serious? >> just the way everyone sounded. >> okay. so what did you do? >> i got out of the car and i walked up, and that's when i saw george floyd unconscious, and derek on his neck. >> okay. so i'm going to break that down a little bit. you said you saw george floyd unconscious. what made you think that george floyd was unconscious when you saw him? >> he wasn't talking anymore and when we pulled up he was talking. his eyes were closed. he wasn't moving.

>> and you said you saw derek on top of him? >> yes. >> and by derek, do you mean derek chauvin? >> yes. >> did you know who that was at the time? >> no. >> did you learn his name later? >> yes. >> so when you said that you saw derek, or mr. chauvin, on top of george floyd, what did you see mr. chauvin doing? >> i saw him kind of digging his knee into his neck more, he was putting a lot of pressure on his neck that wasn't needed. >> and how could you tell -- or what made you think from your point of view that mr. chauvin was putting more pressure on george floyd's neck? >> you could see, like, his foot movement. >> so when you say digging, are

you talking about the position of his knee on mr. floyd's neck? >> yes. >> so you come out to see mr. floyd who looked unconscious to you. what else do you see and hear going on around you. >> the witnesses telling him to check for a pulse. >> and what happened at that point? did you see anybody check for a pulse or do anything? >> no, not that i saw. >> okay. did you see mr. chauvin or anybody else move or change -- or get up off mr. floyd? >> no. >> did you -- were you concerned at that point in time? >> yes. >> were you saying anything once you got into that group of

people? >> yes. i asked why are you still on top of him? he's not doing anything wrong. he was handcuffed. >> and after you said that, was there any response from any of the officers? did any of them move? did mr. chauvin move? >> no. >> did any of them address your concerns? >> no. they were really hostile. >> so when you say hostile, tell the jury what you mean by that? >> the tone in their voice was really -- well, the officer thao's voice was really angry. >> so was officer thao interacting with the people on the street at that point? >> yes. >> i'm sorry, is that a yes? >> yes. >> you just have to wait until i'm done asking before you answer. >> sorry. >> that's okay. i do it, too.

okay, so officer thao appeared hostile. can you just describe what he was doing that made you feel that way? >> he pushed one of the witnesses there onto the sidewalk. >> and did you know that person? >> no. >> did you see anybody being -- you said witnesses, but any of those bystanders, any of those people on the curb, any of those people being violent or aggressive in any way? >> no. >> but you saw mr. -- >> they were just using their voice. >> okay. so you heard people using their voices, but saw officer thao being hostile? >> yes. >> what else did you see? did you see any of the other officers who were there when you were on the curb? >> not when i was on the curb.

>> and what about mr. chauvin, did you see him? >> yes. >> and what did you -- how would you describe his body movement or body language at that point? >> kind of angry. >> i'm going to stop you there. tell me what he was doing with his body? >> he was, like, digging his knee into george floyd's neck. >> did you notice anything else about mr. chauvin reaching for anything or touching his mace -- >> he did grab his mace and started shaking it at us. >> and how did you feel at that point? >> scared. >> why did you feel scared then? >> because i didn't know what was going to happen. >> and were you scared of mr. chauvin, or scared of mr. floyd or something else? >> i was scared of chauvin.

>> at the point you saw mr. chauvin go for his mace, was there anybody in your group of witnesses or bystanders that were, again, being violent or attacking in any way? >> no. >> okay. i'm going to put up exhibit 184, please. now you should see that on your screen in front of you. do you see yourself in this picture? >> yes. >> can you just circle yourself on that screen? it's a touch screen, use your finger. and do you see anyone else you recognize there? >> alyssa.

>> and you circled alyssa second. what is alyssa doing? >> she's recording. >> and is that your cell phone she has? >> yes. >> and what were you doing at this point? >> i was telling donald williams, i believe his name is -- because the cop, i think, pushed him. i don't exactly remember, but i told him, like, don't -- because i didn't know what was going to happen. i didn't want anybody fighting the cops or anything like that. i knew it would escalate. >> did you know donald williams at that time? >> no. >> did you learn his name somehow after the fact? >> yes. >> was there anybody fighting with the cops? >> no. >> was there any fight that happened with any of the bystanders with the cops? >> no. >> were you concerned for everybody's safety? >> yes. >> okay.

and at some point did you see -- you can take that down -- did you see an ambulance arrive? >> yes. >> and what was going on at that point in time? >> the ambulance pulled up and derek was still on his neck. the ambulance people had to tell him, signal him to get up. >> and you just made a motion with your hands. when you say signal him to get up, did you see a paramedic make a motion to mr. chauvin that looked to you like a get up kind of motion? >> yes. >> after the paramedics arrived, was that the first time that you saw mr. chauvin get up off mr. floyd? >> yes. >> and how did mr. floyd look to you? what did his condition appear to be to you? >> he looked kind of purple,

like he wasn't getting enough circulation. >> and was he moving or talking or anything at that point? >> he was really limp. >> okay. and i know this is tough to talk about and i know it's hard, so take your time, but what did you think at that moment? >> well, i didn't know for sure if george floyd was dead until after the fact, but i had a gut feeling. >> so based on what you saw and how his body looked to you when they took him away, did he look dead to you at that point? >> yes. >> and did you see anybody until the paramedics arrived, any of the officers, attempt to render first aid or cpr or give any medical help before that? >> no. >> nothing further, your honor.

>> all right. so the prosecution now has rested their questioning of that witness, the fourth under aged witness so far brought to the stand in this trial. the defense right now taking a moment there to consult with their client, derek chauvin. let's bring in -- okay, let's go back to the courtroom and hear what they have to say. >> thank you. you may step down.

>> your honor, i apologize. we will need a ten-minute break to reorganize our witnesses here. we need to move people around. >> let's take another break. >> all right. so it seems that the prosecution asked for a ten-minute break there. the judge has granted that. we're going to take that break as well. the defense did not have a cross-examination of that witness that has just concluded their testimony. let's bring back with us into the conversation chuck rosenberg is still with us, jonathan capehart is still with us but joining us is the former seattle police chief and an msnbc law enforcement analyst. great to have all of you with us. chuck, let me ask you what i was going to ask you before we went back into the courtroom about 15 minutes ago, and that was to

connect the dots for us between the establishing of the facts, which is clearly what the prosecution here is doing, and then ultimately getting to the charge of murder. i think most people who would see this would say we've seen the facts, we've seen the evidence, we've seen the video, and that's what the prosecution has done. where do they go next after they've established exactly what happened? >> sure. real tries can be painfully slow and it's a burden on the prosecution to prove each and every element beyond a reasonable doubt and to a unanimous jury. so we're watching them do some things that are not all that glamorous, but that are absolutely necessary. let me give you a couple of examples. the very first witness on the very first day of trial was asked, for instance, whether the sector to which the police officers responded was in hennepin county, minnesota. why in the world would they have to prove that? because it's part of what they charge in the indictment that

the event occurred in hennepin county, minnesota. that gives the prosecutors jurisdiction over the case. not glamorous, not sexy, but absolutely vital to the charge. then in order to introduce every document and every video they have to call somebody who is familiar with the document or who made the video, so they can testify as to the fact that it accurately represents what they saw or that the document was made and kept in the ordinary course of business. again, not glamorous but absolutely crucial. eventually they have to prove things that are much more difficult, very easy to prove this occurred in hennepin county. much harder to prove cause of death or officer chauvin's intent, but they are building towards that. this is not a half-hour television drama this is a three or four-week trial in which they will painstakingly put in bits of information piece by piece, witness by witness, and then connect it together at the end. >> and that is certainly the

very methodical approach that seems to be unfolding here. carmen, i wanted to get your thoughts about the defense strategy here with the particular description of anger and the idea that the police were responding to this potentially dangerous mob and that it somehow shaped the outcome of what was happening given the fact that these folks were gathering on the curb, they were documenting in one case, as jonathan pointed out earlier, mr. williams was walking on the curb, getting off the curb, coming down on the street one hand, perhaps, officer thao putting his hand on williams telling him to back up. from a law enforcement perspective, how important is that into trying to create that narrative that officer chauvin and the others were in danger and that shaped their behavior to the crowd? >> well, obviously they're going to be concerned about the tenor of the crowd, but i can tell you i've been to dozens if not

hundreds of events where large crowds gather to see what's happening. often in this day and age, video recorders, cameras come out. these are not uncommon events. clearly you want to make sure you're keeping an eye on, if you will, sort of the demeanor of the crowd. but in this case it's a stretch to say that anyone who saw anything that was of particular or inherent danger for people, for officers or those involved. the subject was in custody at that point. people are pointing out the particular danger or potential danger they thought they were seeing. so, you know, again, you want to make sure you keep officeers in a safe environment. clearly officer safety is important. we don't want to negate that. but, also, in this particular case, in my view, didn't precipitate any extra involvement from the officers other than to be aware of their surroundings.

>> and perhaps unbeknownst to anyone at the time there was that additional camera that we've now learned about across the street feeding back into the 911 dispatch center that also showed that the crowd was extremely peaceful and at no time did they at all jeopardize what the law enforcement folks there were doing on the ground to derek chauvin as well as in the area. we'll squeeze in a quick break. i will bring jonathan capehart into the conversation. stay with me. wanna help kids get their homework done? well, an internet connection's a good start. but kids also need computers. and sometimes the hardest thing about homework is finding a place to do it. so why not hook community centers up with wifi? for kids like us, and all the amazing things we're gonna learn. over the next 10 years, comcast is committing $1 billion to reach 50 million low-income americans with the tools and resources

they need to be ready for anything. i hope you're ready. 'cause we are.

welcome back, everyone. still with us chuck rosenberg, jonathan capehart, carmen best. one of the more emotional moments that happened today was with the issue -- when the issue of race came up and it was in the testimony of one of the witnesses who talked explicitly about how, you know, to some extent she apologized every night to george floyd because in what she witnessed she saw her own relatives, an uncle, her father, black men in her life. and i want to play that emotional moment for our viewers. let's take a listen. >> when i look at george floyd, i look at -- i look at my dad, i

look at my brothers, i look at my cousins, my uncles, because they are all black. i have a black father. i have a black brother. i have black friends. and i look at that and i look at how that could have been one of them. >> it was a very powerful moment there by darnella, but it was also by the assessment of some the first time race was explicitly mentioned so far in this trial on day two. what do you make of that? >> darnella was speaking for the race, to put it bluntly. she was speaking for me. there's a reason why i have not still watched with my own eyes all now, as we know, 9:29 of the extinguishing of the life of george floyd because it's just too painful.

one, just on a human level to watch someone lose their life in real time. but, second, as a black man in this country who lived with a fear that i'm going to get pulled over or i'm going to get stopped while on the street by a member of law enforcement and then a simple failure to signal broken taillight, whatever the pretense is, could go from i.d. and registration to i'm dead. and if you think i'm being hyperbolic, and i'm not talking to you, it's to the people who are watching. but if you think that's hyperbole, ask your black friends. ask a black acquaintance how they felt when they heard darnella say what she said, because she was speaking for -- she was speaking for black americans and for someone that young to have to live with that

guilt of feeling like she didn't do enough for someone who looked like her or someone who could be a member of her family, to have to live with that guilt, but then to have to say it in public in a worldwide -- a case being watched by people around the world, baring her soul at such a young age, i think that's what made her testimony so powerful. and i can't remember if it was chuck rosenberg earlier or maybe it was joyce vance who talked about the mistake the defense made by providing that opening for the prosecution to come back and ask her, do you feel like your life has changed? what does that mean to you? and that's when she gave that powerful statement that is so weighty in emotion but also weighty in innocence but also innocence lost for someone so young.

>> jonathan, shaq brought up this very important point earlier in our coverage, and i want to go back to you, shaquille, about this. we thought so much about the family and what they've had to endure and what they've witnessed just reliving these moments in the courtroom, but you talked about the trauma of courtroom, but you talk about the trauma of the witnesses having to relive what they saw. we're seeing that and hearing that on full display on day two of this trial, with the emotion coming out of these witnesses. >> a lot of emotion, eamon. it remind me i think a conversation i had live on msnbc. the trial started march 8th, so march 7th, it was one of the biggest protests we've seen in the month of march, in the lead-up for the trial. this person told me she was fearful of the trial because of the trauma that was going to resurface she was familiar with

the area, she knew the conversations that were going to be around there. she knew there would be defense arguments that you want come up and mention his drug use and how he was resisting, that level of trauma is now just something you hear from the witness stand, but what people are dealing with. you look at the boarded-up windows in the downtown area. it's something that the twin city region is also dealing with. chuck, let's talk procedural motions, if you will, or what we are seeing here in terms of the choreography of the witnesses and whether or not defense asks a question or doesn't even examine a witness in terms of what we just saw there. explain to us the intricacies involved, how this actually

moves forward witness after witness, the prosecution's building blocks, the defense choosing not to rebuttal, what do you make of how it's playing out mechanically speaking? the prosecution has a list of witnesses and an order in which it wants to call them. that doesn't happen by itself. folks have to go out and issue subpoenas, to the witnesses, they have to arrive at the courthouse, some have to sit there for a day oar two or three until they're called. victim witness coordinators in the office -- i'm sure chief best knows all about this -- help move these good folks in and out. they don't want them talking with one another about what they saw or heard, so you have to be careful. the judge has an expectation when one witness gets off the

stand, another one is ready. what you just heard at trial is the next witness they wanted wasn't there. maybe he or she went to the bathroom, babe they went home, maybe they didn't get the call to show up that day. something went wrong. all of this stuff happening behind the curtain falls on the prosecutors to make it all happen with the help of law enforcement and with the help of really under-appreciated people, victim-witness coordinators. almost everyone you've heard testify, they don't want to be there. and another important thing, that victim-witness coordinators do is help people feel a bit more comfortable in that setting. they talk to them about what to expect. they may even take them into the

courtroom before or after hours, to show them what it looks like. all of that happens because of a good and hard-working victim-witness coordinators to try to make sure prosecutors have what they need when they need it. i have been warned we may be going back into the courtroom any minute, so before i come to you, both jonathan and chief, you were name checked there by chuck rosenberg. talk to you about the porridge and making sure it goes off smoothly in terms of the role of law enforcement, and the fact they have to see this individual who is a police officer on trial, but also maintaining the public peace around this, making sure there's an orderly flow to all of the witnesses and the safety of downtown minneapolis. >> absolutely. there's a lot of moving pieces, a lot of moving parts to making

sure the flow of the trial goes uninterrupted and smoothly. in particular, when dealing with the victim/witnesses that are testifying. they talk about what is occurring, remembering the images, all of that is retraumatizing, and the coordinators prepare them for what might occur. they have time to think about what they need to say, and obviously keeping them in a place where they can take appropriate breaks, they're well fed, all of the things that go into -- especially when you deal with young people on the stand like that. incredibly traumatizing, incredibly difficult to hear.

also important for you to understand specifically what was happening for each and every individual involved. it really paints the picture of what was occur and happening then. >> jonathan, it's a point i have seen made time and time again. it is not just derek chauvin that's on trial today. there's so much more at stake. talk to us a bit about the big picture of the significance of this. as we heard from multiple witnesses about what they saw, it's not just what happened in ha moment, but the ripple effect it's created, quite frankly, around the world. >> right. when i said i feel like i've seen this movie before is because this isn't the first trial of a white police officer involved in the killing of an african-american, particularly

an african-american man. it almost always happens that the police officer is found not guilty. the fact that derek chauvin is actually standing trial is a bit of a victory, because we have seen situations where the police officer involved in taking the life of an african-american doesn't even get indicted. this is a bit of a victory, but i do think -- and i include myself in this, i am already prepared for a not guilty verdict. i hesitate to say that, but just given the history of this country and the history of these situations, i have to intellectually and emotionally prepare myself for that, but i do think the ripple effects of what happened that day on may 25th of 2020, when americans

around the country watched with their own eyes in real time as the video came back of george floyd losing his life and watching minneapolis police officers resting on their back with derek shaich's knee on his neck listening to his plaintive cries, that it struck something in people. they took to the streets to protest, to protest the treatment of george floyd, to protest the treatment of fellow americans at the hands of police. even though we are not watching those demonstrations around the country all the time anymore, that doesn't mean that the energy still isn't there. >> that was the point a prosecutor tried to make today, that everyone witnessing this was extremely troubled by it, so much so they even called the

police on the police. jonathan capehart, chief best, and thanks to all of you for joining us. that wraps up this hour. our special coverage picks up after this very short break. eci after this very short break. her. ♪♪ it's the easiest because it's the cheesiest. kraft. for the win win.

covid has made clear that having health insurance is more important than ever. at covered california, every plan is comprehensive, covering everything from preventive care to mental health. and it's the only place that offers financial help for health insurance. enrollment is open due to covid-19. if you or someone you know isn't covered, now is the time to sign up. covered california. this way to health insurance. enroll now at coveredca.com. hi, everyone. we're following the latest developments in day two of the murder trial of derek chauvin. we'll go back into the trial as soon as it resumes, but first a recap of today's searing testimony from several eyewitnesses who are minors -- or who were minors at the time