officers are trained not to kneel on suspect's next. >> how often do you get instruction on use of force? >> once a year. >> how many officers have to go through that use of force training once a year? >> every officer. >> includes the guy who is number one in seniority? >> that includes me, absolutely. >> let me ask it this way. are there also minneapolis police department policies about the use of force? >> yes, there is. >> are you required to be familiar with those? >> yes, your honor. >> when you do training does it cover the policies as well? >> yes. >> do you also do some physical activity, taking people down and rolling arounded? >> we have a mat that we use at

our soc center. it's like a huge wrestling mat. >> are you familiar with the use of force continuum? >> yes. >> is that part of the minneapolis police department use of force policy? >> yes, it is. >> have you ever in all of the years you have been working for the minneapolis police department, been trained to kneel on the neck of someone who is handcuffed behind their back in a prone position. >> no i haven't. >> if that were done, would that be considered force? >> absolutely. >> level of force would that be? >> the top tier, the deadly force. >> why? >> because of the fact if your knee is on a person's neck, that can kill them.

>> and two other breaking stories. president biden adding great news, the economy adding more than 900,000 jobs last month as the president continues to push his infrastructure and jobs plan. and the cdc releasing new travel guidance for vaccinated americans. the cdc saying you can travel safely once you are fully vaccinated against covid-19. when traveling in the u.s. you no longer have to get a covid test before or after traveling if you are two weeks from your final dose. i am joined by shaq brewster, david henderson and eugene robinson. welcome. we have been covering the police testimony. it has been critical.

the sergeant and lieutenant, most senior officer of the department have taken us through george floyd's death. tell us how this day played out. >> reporter: the testimony started to pick up before the recess. as they got into the talk of force and training. we just got notes from reporters inside the room. remember, two reporters allowed in the courtroom. the reporter notes that the line of questioning with lieutenant zimmerman about handcuffs, use of force got jurors to pay more attention with notes. we know jurors have become fidgety, but when they got on the detail of use of force. the sound you just heard, it seems that many of them started picking up their pens and papers and taking notes. that's a pattern throughout the trial. these jurors have been taking

notes, sometimes flipping back to previous pages and adding to their previous notes. andrea, you are seeing the development of the prosecution and laying out their case. we started the week with the emotional witnesses in their testimony pleading with the officers at the scene. we heard yesterday from the paramedics and the graphic images as they tried to resuscitate george floyd. and today is talk of use of force. >> lieutenant zimmerman is back on the stand when brief recess is over. let's go back to the testimony. >> -- on may 25th of 2020? >> yes. >> earlier you told the jurors about being at the scene and finishing your work there. the next day did you have an opportunity to review some video of that incident? >> yes.

>> do you recall that video, where you saw it? >> yes. >> was it what we call the darnella frazier video? >> yes. >> did you watch that video in its entirety? >> yes. >> since then have you had occasion to watch other video? >> yes. >> did you watch body worn camera from the involved officers? >> yes. >> based on that and your years of training and experience with the minneapolis police department, you saw then officer chauvin with his knee on mr. floyd's neck, correct? >> yes. >> would you call what you saw there a use of force? >> yes. >> did that use of force continue until the ambulance arrived? >> yes, it did. >> was there any change in the

level of force being used until the ambulance arrived? >> no. >> what do you think about that use of force during that time period? >> i am sorry? >> what do you think about that use of force during that time period? >> it's a little vague. let's limit it to the time frame. >> based on your review of the body worn camera video of the incident and directing your attention to the moment when mr. floyd is placed on the ground -- >> yes. >> -- what is your view of that use of force during that time period? >> totally unnecessary. >> what do you mean? >> well, first of all, pulling him down to the ground, face down and putting your knee on the neck for that amount of time

is just uncalled for. i saw no reason for the officers to feel endangered and that's what you would have to feel to use that kind of force. >> in your opinion, should that restraint have stopped once he was handcuffed and prone on the ground sf. >> absolutely. >> also and it appeared that he had stopped resisting. >> i'm sorry? >> he had stopped putting up any resistance. >> absolutely. i would stop. >> no further questions.

>> if i may just have a moment, your honor. >> good morning, lieutenant zimmerman. thank you for being here today. >> you are welcome. >> you testified you had been a minneapolis police officer since june 5, 1985. >> correct. >> prior to that you were with another agency? >> yes. >> when you originally came onto the minneapolis police department you were a patrol officer, correct? >> yes. >> you were a patrol officer from 1985 to approximately 1993 when you took the sergeant's

exam and were promoted. so it's fair to say that for 27 or 2 -- 28 years you have not been on patrol in minneapolis. >> yes. >> your role has been investigative. >> correct. >> and generally that's more of a follow-up type role. >> yes. >> an incident occurs on the street, gets assigned to a detective and your job is to investigate the circumstances of that incident, right? >> yes. >> so it's fire say that since 1993 you have not, other than perhaps for sir moan yawl reasons, you have not worn a uniform on a daily basis. >> i don't know if i would call it ceremonial. i have to wear a uniform. >> you have to wear a uniform from time to time but your daily role is as a plain clothed

police officer, correct? >> yes. >> you are not out making arrests and things of that nature. >> correct. >> your experience with the use of force of late has been primarily through training. >> -- through? >> training. other than actively arresting a homicide suspect, you are not actively patrolling and arresting people for less serious offenses. >> no. >> so you described the use of force continuum as mere presence being a type of force. so when you arrive on scene as a lieutenant in the homicide unit, that is a use of force, right?

>> if people know i'm a lieutenant, yes. >> or they know you are a police officer? >> yes. >> then you described soft techniques like escort holds, things of that nature, right? >> yes. >> i am assuming that since 1993 -- and you were promoted to sergeant you have handcuffed some people in that time, correct? >> i have. >> when is the last time you got in a physical fight with a person sf. >> in 2018. >> so it has been a couple of years since you have been in a physical fight with a person? >> yes. >> so you would agree that the use of force as an investigator is -- or the higher levels of force as an investigator is less likely than a patrol officer? >> i am sorry? i don't understand your

question. >> i will rephrase it. the frequency with which you have to use higher levels of force as an investigator doesn't happen all that often, correct? >> correct. >> so your ex-feerngs involving the use of force is primarily in this annual what's called defensive tactics training. >> yes. >> and that's one of the requirements you need to use or complete in order to maintain your license as a police officer? >> yes. >> you would agree -- or i'm presuming that since 1985 until present day tactics have changed as a police officer? >> some tactics have changed. >> it is fair to say you are not a trainer in the minneapolis

police academy relevant to the use of force. >> that's correct. >> you do not teach other police officers defensive tactics. >> no, i don't. >> your -- you would agree, however, that roughly ten years ago the minneapolis police department moved away from hitting people to try to control people and moved to body weight to control people. >> i don't think i would agree with that. >> within the arsenal so to speak of a police officer, it's as common to punch or strike someone in the use of force as it is to just use what are called takedown moves or body weight pins? >> yes. >> that's been throughout the entirety of your career? >> yes. >> and you are basing that

again, on your experience as -- just going through the defensive tactics requirements? >> right. >> again, as a senior lieutenant in the minneapolis police department, i presume your understanding of the use of force involves the minneapolis police department's policies on the use of force? >> yes. >> and they are designed, at least in your understanding, to address the legal requirements for the use of force? >> yes. >> so there are factors, correct, to determine whether or not a use of force is pro potional, reasonable, things of that nature? >> correct. >> what we look at in in this particular case is the totality of the circumstances, agreed?

>> yes. >> so there is lots of different information that a police officer has to use in order to determine the level of force to be used under which circumstances, agreed? >> yes. >> now in terms of the minneapolis police department, are you familiar with the minneapolis police department's critical thinking -- or critical decision-making model? >> yes. >> you would agree, i am assuming again, based on a long career, that an officer is constantly taking in new information, and that information will affect the decisions he or she makes, right? >> that's correct. >> would you also agree that the training that you received initially as a police officer is probably a lot different than the academy now. >> yes.

>> obviously the available tools that officers have are a lot different than in '85, '90, '95. >> yes. >> body cameras did not exist. >> no. tasers did not exist either? >> no. >> old school cops, carried a gun. >> yes. >> in terms of decision-making of a police officer, would you agree there are certain pieces of information that that officer has that affect his or her decisions on the use of force? >> yes. >> some of that information is very immediate, kind of low level information. agreed? >> yes. >> so, for example, what just

happened with this particular suspect, right? >> yes. >> is this suspect under the influence of a controlled substance or sober. >> yes. >> what are you locking at in that moment through your own eyes, right? >> yes. >> that's the officer's experience in any situation, right? >> right. you look at other things that might be hazards or threats in the immediate vicinity. >> yes. >> so you will look at folks watching, are they videotaping, are they happy or angry? >> yes. >> you will look at what is referred to as scene security. you have a responsibility as a police officer for your partners who may be close to you. >> yes. >> you have a responsibility as a police officer for all of the people in the immediate area? >> yes.

>> so scene security is trying to keep it as tight as possible and keep everybody in the area safe. >> that's correct, everybody. >> you were asked a series of questions about your -- an officer's medical responsibilities. >> i am sorry? >> you were asked a series of questions about your medical training and an officer's medical -- what they are supposed to do. >> yeah. >> even in the assessment of a medical emergency there are many factors that come into that assessment, correct? >> yes. >> to your knowledge many minneapolis police officers are trained at a fairly low level. they are not paramedics, doctors, et cetera. >> that's correct. >> you are a first responder. basically you are taught how to

apply tournaments, stop bleeding and resuscitative efforts. >> that's right. >> a police officer's job is primarily to keep the scene safe? >> i am sorry? >> a police officer's responsibility is to keep a scene safe and secured. agreed? >> yes. >> minneapolis's policy requires involvement of higher authority of medical if necessary. >> yes. >> and they are required to take what steps are reasonably available in the moment. >> that's correct. >> and that would include calling ems. >> yes. >> you have all of these immediate factors but then can you widen the lens.

there are other factors that come into play in terms of use of force based on your use of training and experience. >> yes. >> such as what do we know about the location generally, right? >> yes. >> is this a field in the middle of a woods or a higher crime area. >> right. >> an officer is evaluating that as a part of the process involving the use of force. agreed? >> yes. >> you look at other things such as tactical advantages or disadvantages, agreed? >> yes. >> so if you are not able to get what's called concealment or cover, that becomes a question, right? >> in what -- >> in use of force you are examining the surrounding area. if something happens, can i conceal and cover.

>> yes. >> you also in addition to the scene security, you need to deal with securing the scene which is different than scene security, agreed? >> yes. >> scene security is maintaining the safety of everyone around including yourself and your partners. >> yes. >> securing the scene is making sure that the scene itself is preserved and kept tight, right? >> correct, yes. >> in fact, a police officer's responsibility and part of the use of force determination is to prevent or avoid the use of force against other people. agreed? >> yes, absolutely. >> so if you have to use force against one person to avoid using force against others, that's a factor that an officer should consider. agreed? >> i don't know if i would agree

with that. >> again, within the training department, those people who it's their jobs to do that, they may be better able to answer those questions? >> yes. >> even from there you can widen the lens further and an officer will look at his training, what he's trained to do or not to do. >> yes. >> he will look -- he or she will take into account his or her own experience from their past career. agreed? >> yes. >> so like fighting with someone or the probability or possibility that that person will continue fighting with you in the future even after you have them subdued. >> i don't think i can agree to that totally, but i understand

what you are saying. >> there are circumstances where after a person is rendered unconscious and then you perform -- revive that person, that they are more combative than they were initially, agreed? >> yes. >> and again, in terms of your own -- an officer's own past experiences, they are taking that into consideration as well. >> sure. >> now you testified that you were never -- you have never been trained as a minneapolis police officer to use a knee on the neck of a suspect. >> that's correct. >> you would agree, however, generally speaking, in a fight for your life, you as an officer are allowed to use whatever force is reasonable and necessary. >> yes. >> that could even involve improvisation, agreed? >> yes.

>> minneapolis police policy allows a police officer to use whatever means are available to him to protect himself and others, right? >> yes. >> so if there is a paint can on a table and someone is attacking him, he can use that paint can as a weapon? >> yes. ? >> fact, you have been trained in the prone handcuffing techniques. >> correct. >> it's your testimony that minneapolis police department has never, ever trained anyone to put a knee across the shoulder and to the base of the neck? >> i didn't say that. >> so you would agree then that pursuant to minneapolis police department training, when a suspect is arrested and in the process of being arrested or restrained, it would be consistent with the ninls police department training you've received to placed your knee across the shoulder to the base

of the neck? >> i don't know if i -- part of your question was handcuffing, and we have certainly been trained to put the knee on the shoulder, but i don't know about just restraining a person. i don't recall being trained in that. >> again, possible based on the circumstances? >> sure. >> when an officer is restraining a person and has caused for ems, have you heard the term that we are holding this person for ems? >> yes. >> and essentially that means you want to keep them in that position until ems arrives because they are more capable to deal with whatever this situation is, agreed? >> i don't think i would agree with that. >> how would you describe the term hold with ems? >> hold for ems is that you are

holding him or her for ems. >> sometimes people are held for ems in a restrained position, agreed? >> sometimes. >> you also testified that once a person is handcuffed, the threat is gone, it's at the lowest level? >> that's correct. >> a person who is handcuffed can still pose a threat, right? >> i suppose they could yeah. >> so an officer who -- even though he has someone handcuffed, that person could continue to kick an officer? >> yeah, i suppose. >> that person could continue to thrash his body around, agreed? >> sure. >> part of the reason police officers restrain person is for that person's own safety,

agreed? >> absolutely. >> now it also presumes that the handcuffs were placed on correctly? >> yes. >> sometimes in a struggle or an attempt to handcuff someone, handcuffs aren't placed on properly and can pop open or be too big for a suspect, right? >>. >> i don't know if i have ever seen them too big for a suspect. sometimes they are too tight. >> sometimes in the process of handcuffing someone, one handcuff goes on thereby giving a suspect a potential weapon if they break free. he or she. >> yes. >> and officers have been attacked with their own handcuffs in your experience,

right? >> oh, yeah. >> so you would agree that the use of force is a dynamic series of decision-making based on a lot of different information. >> absolutely. >> and it's based on a lot of information that is not necessarily captured on a body camera, agreed? >> yes, that's correct. >> the body camera is only effective to show what the body camera sees and not what the officer sees. >> that's correct. >> in terms of what you did in this particular case, are you what is called car 21?

homicide? >> no, it's not. >> there is some car associated with homicide. >> yeah. >> what is that? >> we would be like car 112 or 110. >> so you got called or were made aware of this incident on may 5, 2020. you understood it to be a critical incident, correct? >> yes. >> it is minneapolis police policy to turn over any criminal incident to the bur. >> correct. >> that is to avoid any -- >> yes.

>> you were self assigned? >> yes. >> you wanted to be sure the scene was secure, to be sure the officers responding to the scene were doing the things they should be doing in connection with a critical incident. >> that's correct. >> such as roping off or tying off -- or taping off the scene. >> putting up crime scene tape. >> yes. >> not permitting citizens to come wondering through the scene. >> right. >> canvassing the area i think you said. and ultimately your role in this particular case was limited to a couple hours of time making sure those things were done until bca agents arrived and you handed off the scene. >> yes, that's correct. >> it was not until later you were asked to review the body

worn camera of the officers and consider the use of force. >> yes. >> it would not be within your normal role or job duties to do such a use of force analysis, right? >> that's correct. >> i have no further questions. >> redirect? >> lieutenant zimmerman, you had an opportunity to review the body cameras worn by the officers? >> yes. >> did that capture the bystanders? >> yes. >> was there something about that group of bystanders that

they were an uncontrollable threat to the officers at the scene? >> no. >> let me ask it this way. would there be other ways for officers to deal with bystanders? >> yes. >> could that include calling for backup? >> yes. >> would the presence of multiple officers at a scene be a relevant fact for an officer to consider when using an amount of force on a handcuffed and restrained subject? >> no. it shouldn't be. >> but if there is some concern about the crowd, would it be relevant that there were other officers already at the scene? >> i see. yeah. it doesn't matter the crowd as long as they are not attacking you. the crowd really doesn't -- shouldn't have an effect on your actions.

>> you were asked if the use of force training has changed over time. >> yes. >> but you still get the most up to date training every year when you go to the use of force training? >> i do, yes. >> and you were asked about has the academy changed since you went to the academy. >> yes. >> you haven't been through the academy since then? >> no. >> but you have some knowledge of the training? >> yes, absolutely. >> do you think the academy provides appropriate training for the officers. >> yes, it should. >> and provides up to date

training for the officers who are taking the training? >> yes. >> you were asked if you are a trainer and you are not a use of force trainer. >> that's correct. >> our student. >> yes. >> but it's your testimony based on all of the training you go through every year, it's well-known that the prone position is dangerous. >> yes. >> it doesn't take a trainer to say that. you have learned it. >> yes. >> that's something you have learned repeatedly? >> absolutely. that hasn't changed.

>> you were asked about a critical decision-making model. are you familiar with that? >> yes. >> part of that is continually reassessing a need for force. >> correct. >> a fair statement? >> yes. >> so that would include reassessing a location? >> yes. >> tactical advantage? >> yeah. >> conceal and cover? >> yes. >> scene security? >> yes. >> security of the scene? >> yes. >> medical distress of the person restrained? >> yes. >> when you watched the body

camera videos, did those videos capture those types of circumstances relative to the restraint of mr. floyd? >> yes. >> and you were able to assess those things in telling the jury what you thought earlier about the restraint of mr. floyd? >> i am. >> when you watched those videos at some point during the restraint, did you see mr. floyd kicking the officers? >> no, i didn't. >> it may have happened initially, but after that did you see any kicking? >> no, none. >> defense counsel asks you about the concept of holding for ems. >> yes. >> so sometimes it's necessary to keep the person there so they can receive medical treatment.

>> that's correct. >> does holding for ems excuse an officer from providing medical attention that they have been trained to provide? >> no, it doesn't. >> does holding for ems excuse officers from continuing to hold this decision-making model about the use of force? >> no, it doesn't. >> does holding for ems excuse officers from using other resources like other officers at the scene? >> no. >> you were asked about handcuffs, if handcuffs are not properly locked, can they tighten? >> yes. >> can they loosen? >> i am sorry? >> if they are properly connected, can they loosen? they can come open. but if they are locked, can they

still tighten? >> that's right. >> i think the term is if they are not double locked. >> yes. >> based on your review of the body cams did you see any need for officer chauvin is improvise putting his knee on the neck of mr. floyd for 9 minutes 29 seconds? >> no, i did not. >> i have no further questions. >> you may step down. and back with us now is shaq

brewster and washington post columnist eugene robinson. let me ask about the defense counsel trying to impugn the witness's experience? >> i think it is a mixed bag with this witness. derek chauvin went too far. each of these witnesses are a double edge scored. i think the defense can score a lot of points with them. they say, look, the book says -- >> that's going to do it for today. >> when he was asking questions about him being an investigator, working a desk, but then the cross-examine starts to meander to the point where it's difficult to track what his point is. >> and eugene robinson, let's

talk about the bigger picture, the wider picture, the fact that we have heard from experienced police witnesses, witnesses who signed a letter in june discrediting and disagreeing with what what officer chauvin did. we know that uniformed police have a great deal of credibility with jurors. do you think the prosecution is doing a good job of trying to rebut what we expect to hear from the defense. >> i think they are doing a very good job. they look at the jury. they are used today testifying in court and they know thousand speak to juries and communicate to juries and come across. that's one reason police officers are often very effective witnesses. i thought lieutenant zimmerman's testimony was devastating for the defense.

he blew a hole in the defense strategy basically, or two big elements of it, number one. that in his opening defense counsel said he did what he was trained to do. well, lieutenant zimmerman just told the court and world, no, this was not what he was trained to do. he was not trained to put a handcuffed person in a prone position and keep them there for an extended period of time. and he was not trained to put his knee on the neck of a suspect in that condition especially after the person had been subdued. then he blew a giant hole in the paranoid and frankly angry mob that the officer was threatened

by the group of on lookers who were concerned about what was going on with george floyd. i called it a group because it wasn't big enough to call it a crowd. while clearly the people were angry, as lieutenant zimmerman said, that should not have an impact because they were not being attacked. the crowd was being compliant. they would get back on the sidewalk when the other officers told them to do it. i think this coming from the most senior officer in the minneapolis police department -- i have covered a lot of trials. i know you can't read juries. sometimes it comes across in ways you can't quite expect, but it's hard for me not to think this was pretty devastating to the defense today. that was very powerful testimony. >> and we know that in the near future we are going to hear from

the police chief himself. they have just recessed for the weekend. this is the conclusion of the second week of testimony. we have seen the emotional buildup and chance by testimony to humanize and the drug use of the victim george floyd and now we have had the police testimony about the proper use of force once a suspect is restrained. tell me where you think leaves the jurors as they go home for the easter weekend. >> this was a strong place for the prosecution to close at the end of this week of testimony. one thing you like to do as a prosecution before you go out for the weekend or when the jury will be outside the courtroom, you want to be sure they walk away with a strong impression of

your case. having lieutenant zimmerman on the witness stand was a strong choice. the defense tried to score points with him, tried to get him to say you can improvise in dangerous situations where your life is threatened and can use just about any sort of tactic. that didn't work out very well for them and on redirect we heard the prosecution establish this wasn't a situation where improvisation was called for. but even if it had been, the officer had already testified that the knee on the neck tactic would be a use of deadly force that wouldn't be justified in this kind of scenario. so neither perception ully with the jury in terms of the impression they have or legally, looking for an issue down the road on appeal, the defense didn't score.

what was clear at the end of the morning was the use of the prone position and particularly for this length of time with a man in handcuffs in that stressed position and with the addition of a knee on his neck, that this wasn't something the most experienced officer on the minneapolis police department felt was justifiable. he said absolutely not. >> of course the burden of proof is on the prosecution and they only need one juror to get an -- >> reporter: andrea, we haven't gotten the full note for the second half of the testimony. the fact we heard from the

lieutenant, he made clear how he felt about derek chauvin's actions, speaking out as an officer against one of his own officers after george floyd died and testifying that he felt derek chauvin's use of force was totally unnecessary after viewing the tapes of the body camera video. not only is the most senior member of the minneapolis police department, but we are expecting to hear from the police chief at some point. later next week we know at some point based on opening statements and what the prosecution laid out, we will also hear from the medical examiner. we will see what other witnesses come forward between them. you get the sense that the prosecution is developing the case that has moved on from the bystanders. you have an idea from the paramedics yesterday and now

they are talking about use of force. >> it's so good to have all of you and your expertise after this first week of such a dramatic and important trial galvanizing the nation. we have a lot of breaking news today. from the cdc, new travel guidelines for vaccinated americans. the cdc says you can travel safely once fully vaccinated against covid-19. it says when traveling within the u.s. you don't have to have a covid test if you are two weeks from your final dose. and abroad americans should have a negative test before returning home. doctor, thanks for joining us today. how important are these new

guidelines from the cdc for fully vaccinated americans. and does it reinforce the need to get vaccinated to try to return to normal even for the impact on the economy? >> it certainly is good news. great news about the vaccines that are getting out there and making a difference. and the recommends from the cdc about travel is one example the vaccines can make. but we need to recognize we need to keep those efforts to keep everyone vaccinated and need to address the fact that we still have many populations in this country and around the world that haven't had access to vaccines yet. >> speaking of those vaccines, johnson & johnson historic

trials in kids 12 to 18. you have been in charge of the evaluation process. how soon do you think we will see children getting shots? >> there has been encouraging data about the positive efficacy of vaccines in the younger population. i imagine the johnson & johnson trying will show that. as data is collected, it can be added to the dossier. i think we will be able to have soon data to be reviewed by the fda and authorization for use. pretty soon we will probably see applications for full approval of these very new, but very safe and effective covid vaccines.

>> of course there are a lot of caution flags about getting back to normal in so many states. dr. fauci urges americansmyself has some degree of covid-19 fatigue. but the thing we try and emphasize is that this will end. we need to hold out just a bit longer and give vaccines a chance to really get the upper hand in this. >> dr. hamburg, i assume you would add your voice to this, dr. walensky, all the concerns about the spread? >> absolutely. right now, we have the opportunity to really make a real and enduring difference against this devastating covid pandemic. but we are not where we need to be to really relax our guard. we know that we are in a

struggle with this virus. it is continuing to spread. and spreading with a new variant that spreads more rapidly. the one in the uk is 70% to 100% more efficient in its transmission. it's about 50% to 60% more lethal. we need to get the vaccine out as fast as we can to help protect people. but we also need to be following those precautions, the social distancing, the masking, all of the efforts that we know can make a difference. and it's a critical period, these next eight weeks or so, as we get vaccine out to more and more people in this country and really get the control that we need on this virus. >> dr. peggy hamburg, thank you for being with us.

wishing you and your family a very happy easter holiday weekend. >> thank you. turning to the economy. the economy showing signs of rebounding in a big way today. more than 900,000 jobs were added last month. the unemployment rate ticking down to 6%. president biden today citing the fact the economy is still far from where it was before the pandemic. pushing his new sweeping infrastructure and jobs plan. joining us is chief white house correspondent kristin welker who will anchor "nightly news" tonight. what are we hearing from the president? >> reporter: president biden is using these new economic numbers to say that the economy is moving in the right direction, but there is a lot more work that needs to be done. the new strong jobs numbers come on the heels of passing that $1.9 trillion covid relief package that sent $1,400 direct payments to americans. he is using this to underscore his argument that right now is a

time to go big. it's a controversial argument. republicans disagree. they are making the case, the economy is recovering. why add more to the deficit? why increase taxes, for example? that's how the president has said that he is going to pay for his latest infrastructure plan, which he says will create millions of jobs. he was pressed on whether he would listen to republican proposals and try to negotiate. take a listen to what he had to say. >> debate is welcome. compromise is inevitable. changes in my plan are certain. but inaction is not an option. we made progress by starting to build an economy from the bottom up and the middle out. yes, the american rescue plan is laying the foundation for that economy. but we still need the american jobs plan to build on that foundation, to build this country back better. >> reporter: andrea, you hear that the president essentially

signaling that he wants to work with republicans but not ruling out the possibility that democrats will go it alone. of course, they passed that $1.9 trillion covid relief package without republican support. not ruling out taking a similar path this time around. of course, this is a president who campaigned on a promise to usher in a new spirit of bipartisanship. the argument is, these deals undercut that spirit. clearly, president biden defiant in this strategy to move forward with going big, andrea. >> the fact is that there are a lot of people saying he has not proved the jobs piece of the infrastructure plan. he has to do more to prove his projections are solid. >> reporter: that's right. in fact, he hasn't given specific numbers. we have pressed the white house on this. yes, they have said it could create millions of jobs. how many millions? over what period of time? we know that the package overall

is a $2.2 trillion plan, at least the first piece of it. that would stretch out over ten years. until you can fill in some of the blanks, it could be tough to even get democrats on board, progressive democrats saying it doesn't do enough to address the root. the concern and argument is that the white house has yet to provide specific details on how many jobs they hope to create and how many jobs they think are realistic to create. >> i was really struck by his takeaway. he is so disciplined, but the questions that were shouted at him today and he went back to the microphone to respond to criticism by the republicans. in one case said particularly, i wonder what they would say about clean water if they had lead in the water at the capitol. >> reporter: that's right.

you heard that feisty exchange there after he got some questions from reporters. he also was asked by kelly o'donnell if increasing taxes could, in fact, slow the recovery. he defended his position on this saying that, no, he does not believe that that's the case. but that's where the real sticking point comes. you have republicans saying, if we increase taxes on wealthy americans and large corporations, ultimately, it could hurt the economy down the line. >> we will be watching you tonight on "nbc nightly news" subbing for lester. happy easter to you. tomorrow morning on "today." that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." have a very happy easter. a great holiday to all of you, a safe holiday. wear your mask. chuck todd is up next. mm. [ clicks tongue ]

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if it's friday, massive new jobs numbers are out as the biden administration continues its push for an extension and expensive new infrastructure plan. another witness in the derek chauvin murder trial criticizes the use of force against floyd. the cdc released new air travel

guidance for vaccite