the department's model for making critical decisions. and he is being cross-examined right now. a running theme of this trial is something we do not see very often. police testifying against one of their own, including, of course, on monday the chief of the minneapolis police department. before testimony even started this morning we got our first look at a man who was in the vehicle with george floyd right before that deadly encounter with derek chauvin. both the prosecution and the defense have subpoenaed a man named morries hall, but if he's called to testimony, hall said through his attorney that he would invoke the fifth amendment. i want to bring in the panel right now. david henderson, former prosecutor, civil rights attorney, a former prosecutor, a former defense attorney, also the host of "making the case" on

the black news channel. stand by, panel. the judge seems to be ready to make a decision of some sort. >> rephrase. >> mr. yang, as a part of -- excuse me, sergeant yang, as a part of your role in the minneapolis police department, do you train both cadets, recruits as well as veteran officers? >> yes, i do. >> okay. and can you describe the difference between the training that a cadet would receive versus a veteran officer? >> something like this would be given to the recruits and officers that have gone through the officers association training on crisis and de-escalation we will give them a progression training. we would introduce other topics like autism to them and go through different type of topics.

so it's different from what the recruits and the regular officer will get. >> now the information that is presented to recruits, is it generally the same type, broad categories of information? >> it's possibly the same, similar. we want to be consistent, so it's similar, yes. >> right. and so the information that a veteran officer would receive in a 40-hour training would be inclusive of what to look for in thames of crisis, would it not? >> yes. >> you would training officers on the policy about crisis intervention, correct? >> yes. >> you would train them about what to look for when a person is in crisis, right? >> yes. are you talking about recruit or veteran? >> veteran officers. >> are you referring to the

40-hour training? >> yes. >> 40 hours of training, i have nothing to do for the veteran officer. >> okay. so you don't know any information that the veteran training officer -- the veteran officers would receive? >> i do know some of it but not the entire curriculum. >> you've trained veteran officers yourself? >> i do but not in the 40-hour week. >> understood. but in the refresher type course? >> right. >> and do you discuss with officers the policy of crisis intervention? >> yes. >> do you discuss with officers the signs to look for both in terms of suspects as well as individuals observing? >> especially the suspects. >> especially the suspects? >> yes. >> but ultimately you would agree that training also includes the critical decision making model, right? >> yes.

and the critical decision making model is not limited to or focused on simply the suspect, correct? >> objection, leading. >> he's back on to a topic he can lead now. >> correct? >> i'm sorry? >> i was just answering the objection. it's overruled so you can answer. >> would you repeat that, sir? >> sure. i have to remember my question. the critical decision making policy that you train veteran officers on would be inclusive of people other than just the suspect, is that correct? >> there is no policy on critical decision making model, only on the crisis policy. >> the critical decision making model is not limited to interpreting or responding to the suspect exclusively, is it?

>> that's right. >> an officer is trained in the critical decision making model to go out and review the entirety of the situation, the totality of the circumstances, correct? >> that's correct, sir. >> and the totality of the circumstances is more than just how you interact with the subject with whom you are arresting, right? >> that's correct. >> that would include citizen bystanders, right? >> that's correct. >> what to do when a citizen bystander starts filming you? >> that's correct, yes, sir. >> how to try to interpret whether citizens pose a threat or a risk, right? >> correct. >> you would consider your own interactions also with the suspect themselves, correct? >> that's correct. >> and you describe this critical decision making model as being a very dynamic, ever-changing thing based upon information that comes to the officer in real time, right?

>> that's correct, yes, sir. >> and so an officer may consider, may move backwards in the policy but may have to jump somewhere else in the policy because new information comes or the model? >> yes, sir. >> and so it is a constantly evolving process where an officer is entrusted to make decisions based on all of the information that he or she perceives, correct? >> that's correct, yes, sir. >> and that would also include training, right? their training? >> yes, sir. >> and other things that may not be apparent to a citizen? >> yes, sir. >> tactical decision making, for example. >> yes, sir. >> knowing that medical help was on the way, right? >> yes, sir. >> making decisions about officer safety, right?

>> yes, sir. >> it's not just one small thing that you're focused only on the subject that you're arresting, you're taking in a lot of information and processing it all kind of simultaneously through this critical decision making model? >> yes, sir. >> in terms of, and i'll take this down for now, but in terms of the information that you advise or talk to officers, veteran officers about, are how to recognize the signs of someone in crisis, right? >> yes, sir. >> and the minneapolis police department policy on crisis intervention has a pretty specific definition what have constitutes a crisis, right? >> yes, sir. >> it's not limited to someone who may have a mental health problem, right?

>> yes, sir. >> it could include people who are using controlled substances? >> yes, sir. >> it could include people who are simply experiencing some event that is overwhelming them, right? >> yes, sir. >> and that may be losing a job or getting a divorce, but it could be what that person is observing at the time, agreed? >> yes, sir. >> and so the crisis intervention policy actually defines crisis as having a trajectory, correct? >> yes, sir. >> and that trajectory can increase in its severity over time? >> yes, sir. >> and that's why it becomes important for an officer to create time and distance, right? >> yes, sir. >> and creating time and distance for an officer is an important part of the de-escalation process, is it not? >> yes, sir.

>> and would you agree that you train police officers that as that intensity of crisis increases the risk or threat to the officer grows greater? >> i don't think i train specifically like that because my training increases and you have the time, you try to bring it down not increase intensity of it. >> what i'm talking about is not the officer trying to increase the intensity of it. my question is this. as a person is in crisis and the intensity of their own personal crisis grows, you train officers that as they kind of get more intense the risk to the officer

or others is greater? >> yes, sir. >> and, in fact, officers are trained to respond to that in a variety of ways, right? >> yes, sir. >> some of the techniques that the minneapolis police department trains both veterans and recruits would be to have a confidence about them, right? >> confidence about them? >> right. >> yes, sir. >> an officer should try to appear confident in his or her actions? >> yes, sir. >> they should also try to stay calm, right? >> yes, sir. >> they should try to maintain space, right? >> yes. >> they should speak slowly and softly? >> yes, sir. >> they should avoid staring or eye contact? >> yes, sir.

>> and, ultimately when a police officer is dealing with any situation they could be dealing with any number of people who are in crisis, right? >> yes, sir. >> the subject, the arrestee may be in crisis, right? >> yes, sir. >> people who are watching may be in crisis? >> yes, sir. >> another officer could be in crisis? >> yes, sir. >> and an officer has to take all of that in and do this assessment and make a determination as to what his or her next steps would be, right? >> yes, sir. >> and the observations of the officer in that situation, and i think you described on direct examination, you described that an officer will also take into

and apply to the critical decision making model his own sensory -- his or her own sensory perception? >> yes, sir. >> so the touch of having a feeling a suspect be tense, right? >> yes, sir. >> or loose, right? >> yes, sir. >> what they may hear comes into play? >> yes, sir. >> so if they hear people threatening them or potentially threatening violence that goes into that critical decision making model as well? >> yes, sir. >> and oftentimes the scene of an arrested individual is very tense, right? >> yes, sir. >> i have no further questions. >> any redirect? >> yes, your honor.

if we could publish exhibit 276 again, please. thank you. so i'm displaying it again the critical decision making model that you've been testifying about, and the thrust of your direct testimony was using this in terms of assessing a person in crisis for the purpose of can determining whether or not they needed medical intervention, is that right? >> yes, sir. now in discussing this and i guess relating it to the broader force concepts that defense counsel was questioning about,

again, all of these things must be taken into account when deciding the next step, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and the officer always has to keep in mind their authority to act. that's one of the parts of the model, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> now defense counsel asked you if the officer should just focus on one small thing. and i would like to you make some sort of comment on differentiating between a small thing and a big thing because you would agree that something that is a big thing would probably be more important than a small thing, right? >> it depends on what the big thing is and what the small thing is. >> well, for example, if we're looking at assessing somebody's medical condition for the purpose of rendering emergency aid, would that be a big thing or a small thing? >> that would be a big thing. >> if then that is contrasted

with, say, a 17-year-old filming you with a camera, would that be a big thing, the filming, or a small thing? >> the filming would be a small thing. >> and so then if you're taking all of the situations, all of the circumstances into account, you have a big thing and you have a small thing, you're, again, looking at your authority to act and that's policy, right? >> yes, sir. >> and policy would include the policy governing the use of force and that it must be reasonable, correct? >> yes, sir. >> and the duty to render medical aid, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> as the policy is written, correct? >> yes, sir. >> which includes not only contacting the ambulance but performing emergency aid like chest suppressions or cpr? >> yes, sir. >> nothing further. >> anything further?

>> sergeant yang, in terms of the critical decision making model, again, you're analyzing all of these things, medical aid, threats from citizens or observers whether people are recording, what you're seeing, what you're feeling. it all is premised on whether it is safe and feasible to do something, correct? >> yes, sir. >> nothing further. >> anything else? >> no, your honor. >> thank you, sergeant. you are excused. >> thank you, your honor. >> and is that your water? okay, thanks. >> no problem. >> all right. next witness, please.

>> thank you, your honor. your honor, the state calls johnny mersell. >> raise your right hand. do you swear or affirm under perjury the testimony will be the truth and nothing but the truth? >> yes, your honor. >> have a seat. >> thank you. >> you anticipated what i was going to ask you to do. if we could have you state your full name and spell your names. >> johnny, mercil. >> thank you, your honor. sir, how are you employed? >> with the city of minneapolis police department. >> and what do you do for the city of minneapolis? i'm currently on medical leave but i'm a lieutenant with the minneapolis police department. >> how long have you been with mpd?

>> since 1996. >> could you share your educational background? >> yes, sir. i have a four-year degree from the university of north dakota in criminal justice studies. >> what we're? >> i graduated in '95. >> and after you graduated from the university, did you get a job in law enforcement right away or did you go elsewhere? >> i was hired from the minneapolis police department in 1996 and joined the minneapolis police academy. >> describe your academy experience. >> i was a cadet, so we did a combination of police academy along with college courses to qualify for the minnesota test. >> did you take and pass the p.o.s.t. test? >> yes, sir. >> licensed police officer. >> wait just a bit so you don't talk over each other. >> after you completed your course work with the academy did you go into a field training

program? >> yes, sir. >> how long were you in that program? >> i believe it was about four months at that time. >> and then you received your first assignment as a police officer, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> can you please tell the jury what your first assignment was, where were you and what were your duties? >> i was assigned to the third precinct which is southeast minneapolis. and duties patrolling the streets, answering 911 calls. >> how long did you serve as a patrol officer in the third precinct? >> initially for a couple years and then i went to the community response team which is a plains clothed unit. >> i've heard it called the crt? >> yes, sir. >> what do they do? >> they respond to the community's concerns about crime, prostitution, drug dealing. >> how long were you with the crt team? >> i did that for about three

years. >> what was your assignment afterwards? >> from there i went to the mounted patrol unit and that was a downtown unit at the time. >> what does the mounted patrol unit do? >> we patrol on horseback for busy times in minneapolis. >> how long did you do that? >> full time for about a year and a half and then i went to patrol in downtown. >> how long were you in the downtown assignment? >> i was on downtown middle watch until 2006 and then i was promoted to sergeant. >> did you take an exam and pass it? >> yes, sir. it's a civil service exam along with an assessment center. >> and after you were selected as sergeant you received your first assignment? >> yes, sir. >> what was that? >> i went to the robbery unit in

downtown here at city hall. and then from there i went to the juvenile unit and then i eventually ended up back downtown on patrol as a supervisor. >> okay. and how long did that take? what year are we up to now? >> i think we're at about 2007, 2008. >> and after that? >> i was there for a couple of years. i ended up going back to mounted patrol full time as a sergeant in charge of the unit. that went through 2009. i went back to the street for about a year and a half and then i went to the minneapolis police department's gang enforcement team as a sergeant. and then we, from there, investigated gang crimes, gun crimes. and then after that assignment i ended up on the north side on patrol for about a year, a year and a half, and then i went back downtown as a sergeant on the community response team, the crt team downtown, and in 2017 i took the exam for lieutenant and

passed and was a lieutenant in 2017. >> and where were you assigned then as the lieutenant? >> after i got promoted i was transferred to the training division in charge of use of force. >> i would like you to talk about your own background in the use of force. you're familiar with the minneapolis police departmental policy regarding the use of force? >> yes, sir. i trained for several years for that. >> that was a part of your academy training? >> partially. >> and then after you left the academy, did you have to take refresher courses which would have included use of force training every year? >> yes, sir. >> in order to maintain your p.o.s.t. license? >> that's correct, sir. >> have you had training beyond that, beyond what was presented at the academy and your yearly

certification? >> yes. >> could you describe it? >> i became a part time use of force instructor in 2010, and i maintained that part-time status up until i was promoted to lieutenant where i went to the training unit full time. >> what did you have to do to become qualified to become a use of force instructor? >> went through different courses, designed to train us up on use of force. i also started training brazilian jujitsu for the department as part of our ground defense initiative. several other classes in different academies, too. >> and i'd like to maybe qualify a few terms if we may. we talk about use of force and use of force training. we also hear the determine defensive tactics. can you differentiate between the two? >> i think they're interchangeable. i think use of force is probably the more appropriate term. i think defensive tactics has

been more of a term that's been used longer, so people tend to refer to use of force instructors as defensive tactic instructors. >> would a defensive tactics, in terms of defensive tactics instruction, include more hands-on-type instruction? you mentioned brazilian jujitsu, for example. >> yes, sir. >> were you interested in brazilian jujitsu before? >> i was in martial arts through college and then i got interested in it from some of the other use of force instructors kind of recruited me to do that and really fell in love with the art form and really what its implications and uses for law enforcement specifically. >> would you please just provide a very high level overview of what brazilian jujitsu is and some of its basic principles? >> yes, sir. it focuses on leverage and body

control, deemphasizes strikes. there's no strikes, no punching or kicking. it's using your body weight like wrestling and joint lock manipulation, neck restraints, pain compliance as well as physical body control to get people to comply. >> so you use the phrase pain compliance. what is that? >> pain compliance is using a technique that causes the person you're using it against to have pain so they comply to whatever it is you are asking them to do. >> so if we were to use an example maybe from childhood the game mercy? >> yes, sir. >> where you lock fingers and twist down and somebody has to submit, is it similar to that? >> yes, sir. >> all right.

>> although brazilian jujitsu is not the only defensive tactic officers at mpd are trained on, is it? >> no, sir. >> it's just one of a variety of different tools that can be employed to deploy force, is that right? >> that's correct. >> for the purpose of enforcing the law, correct? >> that's correct. >> as a use of force instructor, if you became certified, did you have to become knowledgeable in all the relevant policies and procedures regarding the use of force, the 5-300 series? >> yes, sir. >> as well as state law governing the use of force which is largely integrated into minneapolis departmental policy, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and you indicated that you were the lieutenant, a lieutenant in the training center, is that right? >> training division, sir. >> training division. and please describe your role then as a lieutenant in the training division.

>> i was in charge of use of force. i was also in charge of our patrol operation section of training as well as the police range. and i was in charge of all of our continuing education to make sure better officers are fulfilling their p.o.s.t. mandates to be a police officer. >> and as part of that to make sure you're properly reporting to the p.o.s.t. board, you keep records, sign-in sheets and what not of particular officers having completed training, is that right? >> that's correct. >> and those training hours are collected and reported into the workforce director program? >> yes, sir. >> so you have an accurate record of who has been trained in what, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and when you're the lieutenant of the training division in use of force are you coordinating preservice and training? >> the preservice side would be use of force, the range and patrol operations.

in-service side is the p.o.s.t. mandates we have to keep up with. that's the p.o.s.t. service side, in-service. >> as a lieutenant you're in charge of -- you're in a position of rank over the sergeants, right? >> that's correct. >> those are usually the level -- the trainers would largely be at the sergeant level? >> mainly officers with some sergeants overseeing. >> as the lieutenant and the person in charge of this training are you familiar with the cripple lumme that is imparted upon both preservice and in-service trainees? >> yes, sir. >> you helped develop the curriculum? >> yes, sir. >> and you approve the curriculum? >> yes, sir. >> the curriculum could include -- well, does include just a general booklet that's put together by the defensive tactics instructors, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and that booklet contains the general concepts for use of

force imparted on preservice trainees and in-service trainees? >> that's correct. >> if i could show exhibit 126 just to the witness. i'm showing you what's been marked for identification as exhibit 126 and it's labelled minneapolis police department use of force manual academics and techniques produced by the mpd defensive tactics team. are you familiar with this document and its predecessor documents? >> yes, sir. >> does this document contain sort of the general curriculum and knowledge that's imparted upon mpd preservice and in-service trainees? >> yes, sir. >> offer exhibit 126. >> no objection. >> 126 is received. >> and we won't publish that at this point. and do you also participate in and approve various classroom

power point training sessions that are imparted upon both the preservice and in-service trainees? >> yes, sir. >> and at this time to the witness i would like to show exhibit 119. exhibit 119 is a slide deck that's labelled 2018 defensive tactics in-service, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> if you could show the witness the second page. do you see your name on the slide deck listed at the top of instructors? >> yes, sir. >> are you familiar with the contents of this particular power point presentation or slide deck? >> yes, sir. >> did you help create it? >> yes, sir. >> and you approved its use during the training, is that right? >> that's correct. >> and it's listed as the fall of 2018, so this is what would

have been provided for in-service training, so experienced performing officers during this 2018 session, correct? >> that's correct. >> and is the training that's provided -- you have quite a few minneapolis police officers who have to go through the training, right? >> yes, sir. >> so they're not all taking it at the same time? >> that's correct. >> but if someone has completed the fall 2018 in-service defensive tactics training, does that mean that they saw this slide deck? >> yes, sir. >> i'll offer exhibit 119. >> any objection? >> no objection. >> 119 is received. >> and we talked about training records and sign-in sheets. i would like to show the witness exhibit 124.

exhibit 124 is labelled the in-service training program group b. is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and i see your name at the top as one of the instructors, is that right? >> that's right. >> is this a sign-in show who would show different officers sign in taking the training? >> that's correct. >> turn to page two. do you see the name derek chauvin on this training roster? >> yes, sir. >> are you familiar with that name, derek chauvin? >> yes, sir. >> chauvin, i'm sorry. derek chauvin. would you recognize mr. chauvin if you saw him in the courtroom today? >> yes, sir. >> do you see him today? >> i do, sir. >> would you please point to him and describe what he's wearing. >> he has a dark blue tie, light blue shirt and a gray jacket. >> may the record reflect the witness has identified the

defendant. >> it will. >> go back to page one. at this time i will offer exhibit 124 -- >> 124 is received. >> permission to publish 124. >> if you could high like the instructor block and title. again, you see this is 2018, this training was provided on october 1, 2018, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and you are listed as one of the trainers, correct? >> that's correct. >> and if you could go to page two. highlight, please.

and there you can see the training was attended by the defendant, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> you can take that down. how many times do you think you've provided training like what we saw in the exhibit to various officers over the years? >> hundreds of times, sir. >> and is this a slide deck that you identified as being the 2018 version fairly consistent with prior versions of the use of force training you've provided? >> the documentation, sir? >> yes. >> yes. >> so when you do use of force training there are generally two components, right? there's a classroom component and there would be more of the tactical component, practical exercises, is that right? >> that is correct. >> and what we saw in the exhibit was the classroom

component? >> i believe so. >> okay. well, what i'd like to do now is publish exhibit 119. and just like you've done hundreds of times before i'm going to have you explain some of the selected slides to the jury, all right? >> yes, sir. >> now please turn to page two, 119, and, again, you can see your name listed on this in-service training as one of the instructors, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and turn to page four. page four of the slide deck contains a policy reference, is that right? >> yes, sir, it does. >> and you testified that you're familiar with the policies, the use of force policies, when the objectives of training is to impart the policies, teach those

policies to the attending officers? >> yes, sir. >> objection. >> overruled. >> and so this is from the minnesota -- i'm sorry, the minneapolis policy manual 5-301. could you please describe to the jury what this slide is intended to convey? >> yes, sir. it looks like there's three bullet points. the first one is sanctity of life and protection of the public. that is the cornerstone of our use of force policy is the sanctity of life and protection of the public. also clear and consistent force policies. we like our policies it would be easily understood. and then the use of force standards do fall under the 4th amendment, reasonableness standard. >> since we're talking about use of force, i would like to turn to page seven of the exhibit, 119. when we talk about use of force, explain to the jury what is

force? >> it's listed on this slide here. intentional police contact involving any weapon, substance, vehicle, that inflicts pain to another, physical strikes to the body, physical contact to the body that inflicts pain or injury, or restraint applied in a manner or circumstance likely to produce injury. >> you trained officers that restrained is a form of force, right? >> yes, sir. >> and when applying force or applying restraint, the restraint has to be reasonable, correct? >> correct. >> and it has to be reasonable at the time it starts and at the time it stops? >> correct. >> you're familiar with the concept of proportionality? >> yes, sir. >> if you could turn to the exhibit page eight.

when you discuss proportionality to trainees, you use this exhibit, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> in general, without using the slide for a moment, just explain to the jury as you would a group of trainees what is proportional force? >> well, you want to use the least amount of force necessary to meet your objectives, to control. and if those lower uses of force do not work, would not work, or are too unsafe to try, you can increase your level of force against that person. >> you say do not work, would not work or unsafe to try, it sounds like maybe you've used that phrase a time or two? >> yes, sir. >> is that a phrase you've used in pretty much every training? >> we discuss proportionality regularly. >> and you said that you want to use the least amount of force as necessary? >> yes, sir. >> why is that? >> because if you can use the

least amount -- a lower level of force to meet your objectives, it's safer and better for everybody involved. >> and when we talk about proportionality, proportional to what? >> i would say the level of resistance you're getting. >> and the level of resistance would be dependent upon who? >> the subject that you're using force upon. >> the specific subject? >> yes, sir. >> all right. at this time i would ask to publish exhibit 110, and this is an item that's already been received into evidence. do you recognize what's in exhibit 110? >> yes, sir. >> what is that? >> it's technically called a defense and control and response training guide, but a lot of people refer to this as the use of force continuum. >> and when we were discussing the concept of proportionality, you talked about subject behavior, is that right?

>> yes, sir. >> subject behavior over here on the left-hand side, correct? >> that's correct. >> and the subject behavior can vary from, i guess, nothing, passive resistance to active aggression, correct? >> yes, sir. >> in terms of proportionality there's various tools available to a law enforcement officer based on the subject's behavior, correct? >> that is correct. >> and some of these tools, if we can take an example with active aggression one response could be what? >> up to and including deadly force. >> but then for lower levels of subject activity such as passive resistance, right, that could include things like presence and verbalization? >> that's correct. >> and is this something that you use with law enforcement officers you train to graphically represent the concept of proportionality? >> i'm not sure if we use this

specific to proportionality force but we have used this in the past to describe as levels of resistance increase that officers' response also increases. >> and similarly as levels of resistance decrease, what should the officer do? >> you should de-escalate use of force as well. >> that's listed in this guide, isn't it? >> correct. >> if you would clear that, your honor? and you indicated that you train officers that they should use the least amount of force that is available or that's reasonable under the circumstances, is that right? >> the objectives, yes. >> and explain that. >> so you want to use the least amount of force, if you're trying to control somebody, might be a lower level of force than if you're trying to get

them in handcuffs and they're fighting. you want to use the lowest level of force possible in order to meet those objectives. >> and lower levels of force, fair to say when you're using force people can get hurt? >> yes, sir. >> the subject can get hurt, the officer can get hurt? >> yes, sir. >> is that one of the reasons it's better to use a lesser amount of force? >> yes, sir. >> and another reason is that it's required, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> if you could go back to exhibit 119 and publish page 12. and you train this to officers, back to your training materials, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> the minnesota statutes provide, and this is integrated into the mpd policy, the concept of minimum restraint, is that right? >> that's correct. >> and i would ask you if you could please highlight the first section.

i'm sorry, the second section. what is the amount of restraint that can be used on an arrested subject? >> the first line talks about the officer making the arrest, may not subject the person arrested to any more restraint than is necessary for the arrest and detention. >> what does that mean? >> the minimum of amount of force you need to accomplish the objective of arresting or detaining somebody is what you should use. >> now you're familiar with the circumstances that bring you here today, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and i need to show you a

photo that's been received into evidence, and it's exhibit 17. i would like to publish that. you see exhibit 17 and you see the defendant on top of a subject that you know to be george floyd, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> is this a use of force? >> yes, sir. >> if you could take that down, please. >> i want you to discuss in terms of using force and using it safely, what you teach your trainees about sort of the frailty of the human body. it's important to be careful with people, is that right? >> oh, yes, it's very important to be careful. >> and there's some parts of the body that are more prone to injury than others, correct? >> that's correct. >> and you train on that, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> if we could display exhibit

119, page 49. now this is from strike training, is that right? >> that's correct. >> is it generally helpful in describing some of the more sensitive parts of the body are as you train minneapolis police officers? >> related to strikes, yes. >> can it be related to other times of restraint as well? >> i think you could stretch that some. i don't know -- what's the question exactly again? i'm sorry. >> is it fair to say the areas marked in red, the red zones, are more prone to injury than other parts of the body, that could be serious? >> yes. >> so, for example, the neck? >> yes. >> and the head? >> correct. >> and the sternum of the chest, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> and this wouldn't just

pertain to strikes, it could apply to pressure, couldn't it? >> yes. >> is that something you probably knew before you even did any use of force training? >> yes, sir. >> i'd like you to then discuss with the jury the concept of neck restraints, and if we could publish page 52 of the exhibit. and looking at the time period that you are doing this training, neck restraints were authorized by mpd policy, correct? >> yes, sir. >> can you please describe the training that you provided to minneapolis police officers regarding the use of neck restraints? >> yes, sir. we would go over the techniques, definitions of neck restraints, and we would go through different reps of the neck restraint to get the officers

comfortable in doing it. >> could you just give the jury an overview of what a neck restraint is? >> yes, sir. so neck restraint is constricting the sides of a person's neck, and they refer to it as a vascular neck restraint so you're slowing the blood flow to and from the brain with the intent to gain control of a subject. >> and there are two different types of neck restraints in the mpd policy, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> and those are what? >> the two levels are conscious neck restraint, so that means you wrap somebody up and they're still conscious and you can gain compliance with many people with that. and then there's unconscious and that's applying pressure until the person, when they're not complying, you put enough pressure they become unconscious and, therefore, comply. >> how does one actually apply a neck restraint? >> we teach a couple of different techniques but the basic idea is you use your elbow as a landmark and place your arm

across so your bicep would be on one side of the neck and your arm, the forearm, on the other side of the neck and there's a couple of different hand placements but then you apply pressure both sides of the neck to gain compliance. >> and you were demonstrating, you were using your arm to do that? >> that's correct. >> and it can also be done with a leg? >> it can be done as a leg. >> does mpd train how it may be done with a leg? >> we may show the younger officers in the academy what it looks like but we don't train with the officers in-service. as far as my knowledge, we never have. >> how would a trained neck restraint work? i'm sorry, how would a trained leg neck restraint work? >> people that watch mma, so professional fighters, they call it a triangle choke. and i use that term choke loosely. that's just what it's called. but that's when you place your leg over somebody's back, cross the side of their neck and you trap their arm in so the person

ends up having one arm in and their arm causes pressure on one side and the leg causes pressure on the second, and you can actually render somebody unconscious if you hold that long enough. >> what part of the leg? >> usually it's the inner thigh. >> inner thigh. so in this scenario, using a leg to do a neck restraint with would the knee replace the elbow in placement? >> i would say the knee doesn't really replace the elbow. your thigh would be across the side of somebody's neck. your leg across their back and you protect with the space of their arm being pinned in there. >> if you could please display the next page, page 53. use of neck restraints. can you describe in using the concepts of proportionality when it's authorized to use a neck restraint of the two different

varieties? >> yes, sir. on subjects who are actively aggressive, which means assaultive, they're actively resisting and other techniques haven't worked, you can use it then. and then on the bottom it says know you can't use it against subjects who are passively resistant. use it against subjects passively resistant. >> if you could go to the next slide, page 54. after a neck restraint is applied, there are certain guidelines that you are trained that having to followed? >> that is correct. >> care for the individual with whom the neck restraint was applied. >> yes, sir. >> if we could publish exhibit 110 again and bring this specific topic back to the concept of proportionality, please.

do you have one of those stylus up there? >> yes, i do. >> you can touch the screen. unconscious neck restraint is when a person is rendered unconscious intentionally so. >> yes, sir. >> could you under line neck restraint as you see it in this response guide? >> yes, sir. >> what subject activity, what level of subject activity would be required to use an unconscious neck restraint? >> it's in at the red area so it is active aggression. >> do you agree with that? >> yes, active aggression. >> you can find conscious neck restraint and that's used for

the purpose of control, correct? >> correct. >> could you underline where that is in this force continuum, exhibit 110? so conscious neck restraint is used when there is active resistance. >> yes, sir. >> so if there was passive resistance, neither the conscious neck restraint or uncashes neck restraint would not be authorized. >> that is right. >> an unconscious neck restraint would not be authorized for some forms of active resistance, would it? >> that's correct. >> if the subject is offering to resistance, obviously no neck restraint would be authorized. >> that's correct. >> or any restraint. >> or in. >> or any restraint if there is

no -- >> generally. >> in addition to the training, you teach officers, show them how to physically do these neck restraints? >> yes, sir. >> at this time i would like to republish exhibit 17. is this an mpd trained neck restraint? >> no, sir. >> it has never been? >> not to mine -- neck restraint? no, sir. >> is this an mpd neck ray --

restraint. >> it depends on the length of time. >> depending on what? >> the amount of resistance. >> if the subject was under control and handcuffed works this be authorized? >> i would say no. >> continuing in this defensive tactic representation, if you could go back. you also teach officers the proper handcuffing and techniques, right? >> yes, sir. >> according to handcuffing techniques, handcuff is to be behind the back and double locked. >> sure.

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good day. this is andrea mitchell reports with our continuing coverage of the derek chauvin trial where the judge just announced the morning break. the prosecution has been working on proving that the police officer used deadly force on

leaning on george floyd's neck for nine minutes. this has been a use of force training coordinator who led a session attended by officer derek chauvin in 2018 talked about using campaign compliance to enforce the law. >> you want to use the least amount of force necessary to meet your objectives to control. if lower forces will not work or are too unsafe to try. >> that sounds like a phrase you have used before. >> yes, sir. we talk about force proportionality.

>> you say you want to use the least amount of force? >> yes, sir. >> why is that? >> if you can use a lower level of force to meet your objectives, it's safer for all involved. >> joined by paul butler andreychuk rosenberg. chuck, first you. there is a lot of talk about you today and what you are hearing about the jurors reaction to all of this. >> we are still waiting on the full report, but you can tell that witnesses are digging in on the use of force, trying to show that the use of force was not justified, trained or according to the policy. that's what you are hearing from the two officers who have taken