>> you said there were other things that were significant that were related to the rate of respiration and we talked about fentanyl. was there anything else? >> yes. the other thing, there are two other things that are very important to the respiratory rate, because you saw it with your own eyes, exactly his respiratory rate. the first thing is if you have somebody who has underlying heart disease and the heart disease is so severe, that it's been said it's causing shortness of breath, that it's causing difficulty of breathing. when somebody has heart disease that's causing shortness of breath, virtually all of those patients are going to have very high respiratory rates. they're going to have respiratory rates of over 30, even over 40 when you have heart disease that can give you shortness of breath, instead of as we find his respiratory rate is normal at 22.

the second thing that's important about the respiratory rate of 22 is when you have somebody that the primary problem in the body is airway narrowing, where you have somebody where there is -- that the airways are being compressed and there's narrowing in the neck and narrowing in the chest, the physiological response to airway narrowing is a normal respiratory rate and that is what we have. so it's the expectant respiratory rate you see that's normal is the expected physiological response. if somebody who has airway narrowing. >> so, doctor, you've covered the mechanisms of how low oxygen

occurs. as a commission, did you observe the results of low oxygen in the video showing the last minutes of george floyd's life? >> yes. >> what did you observe? >> i mean, in terms of what we are seeing is the changes in his facial appearance, this becomes crucially important. again, it's seeing the effects of the low oxygen. >> have you seen this effect in other patients as a clinician? >> yes, indeed. because i work in an icu where 40% of our patients die, so i'm extremely familiar with seeing people who die unfortunately. so when you see these changes, yo see the changes in the face. that is the key way of noticing something happening is by looking at the effects on the face. >> doctor, i want to show you exhibit 15 already admitted into evidence.

at 4/04. and i want to play you a clip and have you tell us what it shows. >> at the beginning you can see he's conscience. you see a slight flickering, and then it disappears. so one second he's alive and one second he's no longer. >> could we just once more, that went pretty fast, so the jurors can see it. just one second. 20:24:53 on the composite.

and the speed is slowed down by a third just so we can see it. you can see his eyes he's conscience and then you you see that he isn't. that's the moment the life goes out of his body. >> i will also show you a clip from another body-worn camera, exhibit 43. 20:22 is where it starts. and i want to play this had for

you also, dr. tobin, if you can tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what this informs us. >> so now he's dropping his right side. you can see how he's moving his hip to rock the right side of his body to get air. you see him pushing down on the street to get air in. these movements of his hip you may miss but he's having to use all of his spine to just try to get air into that right side of the body. keep in mind the left side is nonfunctional from the way they manipulated him and pushed him into the street. so he's constantly cranking up the right side of his body. you can see it right there, to try to get some air into the right side of his chest. he's making repeated struggling

movements. he's moving again the hips because he's using his spine to try to get those muscles to move air into the right side of his chest. and he's again trying to use his right arm and he's unable because of the chain, the small chain linking it over to the left side. he's trying to have pushed down on that right arm into the street to try to help him but he's unable to do it because of the chain on the handcuffs. >> at some point mr. floyd stops speaking. what does that tell us about his oxygen supply? >> where he's not speaking, it tells us that the airway narrowing in his upper airway is more than 85% and then it's separate from the in terms of the oxygen level. that we are seeing by the face but they're all happening together. so once -- once you see how much narrowing there is in the

airway. but they're all coming in together. >> and then did the restraints stop at the time of the brain injury and pea arrhythmia? >> yes. >> did the restraints stop at that time? >> no, the restraints continued after he has the cessation of respiratory efforts. when he last takes a breath, the knee remains on the neck for another 3:27 after he takes his last breath, the knee remains. after there's no pulse, the knee remains on the neck for another 2:44. after the officers have found themselves, there's no pulse, the knee remains on the neck another 2:44. >> thank you, dr. tobin, no further questions.

. >> we're going to take our lunch break at this time. we're going to take until 1:30. >> thank you. well, there you are, it is the lunch break. welcome to "meet the press daily." i'm chuck todd. you're watching the ninth day of testimony in derek chauvin's murder trial and it's been some difficult and difficult-to-watch testimony and video and after several days of testimony about

chauvin's use of force and what happened to george floyd, prosecutors are now turning to why mr. floyd died and what caused his actual death. jurors have heard from dr. martin tobin, one of the world's most prominent pulmonologist, who testified mr. floyd died from asphyxia. >> mr. floyd died from a low level of oxygen and this caused damage to his brain that we see and it also caused a p.e.a. arrhythmia that caused his heart to stop. >> dr. tobin also told jurors george floyd could not breathe because of how police were holding him. >> the way they're pushing down on these handcuffs, combined with the street, his left side, and it's particularly the left side we see, it's like the left side is in a vice. it's totally being pushed in, squeezed in from each side from

the street at the bottom and then from the way that the handcuffs are manipulated. >> the doctor also refuted the defense's claim the rate was due to fentanyl in his body showing he had a normal rate of breathing before mr. chauvin placed his knee on his neck. i'm joined by civil rights attorney david henderson and to break down today's medical testimony is pulmonologist and msnbc medical contributor dr. vin gupta. shaq, let me start with you. today we know the defense has their own expert on this, this is going to be a highly litigated portion of this trial in a trial already highly litigated. >> that's right, chuck. i'm glad you mentioned that. we're over the next couple of days, probably remainder of this trial, we're going to hear a

battle of experts also, people from the prosecution brought on to underscore their point, it was the actions of derek chauvin that led to the death of george floyd. when the defense makes their case, you will hear the defense, and their experts will say the fentanyl in his system and drugs and underlying medical condition. i think the important points today, chuck, four points i want to break down. you heard dr. tobin express george floyd died from a low level of oxygen, asphyxia. a word you don't see in the medical examiner's report and we will hear from the medical examiner tomorrow. number two, because it's the actions of chauvin, handcuffs, prone position, the knee in the neck and in the back, that led to the deficiency in oxygen george floyd was getting. number three, he prebutted the point you will hear from the defense saying the fentanyl in his system did not cause the

respiratory condition. and you will see them go through and touch the back and get them to understand what george floyd felt in his final moments of life. i think that's something when you look at the pool reports and what the jury is doing, following along with him, extremely interested in the testimony, i think that's probably a side effect of his testimony, because they're following along, kind of taking that lesson along with the world-renowned pulmonologist, they're getting to conduct with him in a way they haven't probably been able to with just the video, chuck. >> i'm glad you brought that up, shaq. i'm sorry, you can't help it, it's very -- he's very engaging. he's like a professor you can't stop listening to. i'm curious, the decision to put him on before the medical examiner, do you have any sense why do him before the medical examiner's testimony? >> this is something teased a little bit in the opening statements, chuck. we're reading a little bit of tea leaves there but in their

presentation heard prosecutors say they would bring him on. we will hear from a cardiologist, toxicology expert. it seems like we're going to hear from a lot of experts who can provide context from what we will hear in the medical examiner's report. i went back and looked at old court filings and one of the things andrew baker told investigators in the days after george floyd's death, he said the autopsy revealed there was no physical evidence suggesting that floyd died of asphyxiation. you see in the actual report he doesn't mention that word. i think the idea is before we have dr. baker, who actually was the only person to officially do the autopsy of george floyd, before we present that data, before the prosecution presents that data, they're trying to add a frame, some context of the jury as they listen to what dr. baker will ultimately say tomorrow, chuck. >> all right, shaq, we got dr. vin gupta here. you're pulling double duty for us as a pulmonologist. i want to play basically, and the control room knows this, the

four specific bites if him that he sort of walks through some how he came to the conclusion of when he was able to stop to breathe. control room, sot two through five. let's play them back to back and then dr. gupta, i want to get your analysis on the other side. >> it's not just the handcuffs, it's how the handcuffs are being held, how they're being pushed, where they're being pushed, that totally interfere with central features of how we breathe. >> so mr. floyd then is pancaked between the pavement underneath him and force on top of him? >> precisely. you see his knuckle against the tire. to most people, this doesn't look terribly significant but to a physiologist, this is extraordinarily significant.

because this tells you that he has used up his resources and he's now literally trying to breathe with his fingers and knuckles. the toe of his boot is no longer touching the ground. this means that all of his body weight is being directed down at mr. floyd's neck. we're taking half his body weight plus the weight of his -- half the gear and all of that is coming directly down on mr. floyd's neck. we see here that he reaches a level of zero of oxygen at 20:25:41. so at that point there's not an ounce of oxygen left in his entire body at 20:25:41. >> so was the knee then lifted off of his neck at the point there was no oxygen in his body?

>> no, the knee remained on the neck for another 3:02 after we reached the point where there was not one ounce of oxygen left in the body. >> dr. gupta, i think for a lot of us lay people to see that he can glean so much from essentially a white knuckle. walk us through that testimony and why is it -- what does it tell you? >> chuck, first of all, it's really difficult to listen to and dr. tobin is iconic in our field. so let me level here, for all of our viewers out there, typically you have oxygen deprivation, meaning your oxygen levels are below, say, 70% and rapidly declining, you will lose consciousness within about a minute. brain damage usually occurs within four minutes. and that's right around the time you're can going to go into

cardiac arrest. they've been throwing around this term p.e.a. arrhythmia, pulseless electrode activity. if you slap on an ekg monitor, it seems like their heart is doing what it should do, electrical activity and ticking. in reality, there's no pulse. that's what oxygen deprivation does. at about the four-minute period, once your heart muscle loses any oxygen, it stops. you go into cardiac arrest. but it's not the type of cardiac arrest where you put electrical pads on and do a shock. that's from a heart attack caused from a blood clot or vessel. this is different. this is exactly what happened, unfortunately, to mr. floyd. i thought what was the most interesting part of the testimony from dr. tobin was the fact that the knuckle contortion pushing down on the tire all reflect mr. floyd was trying to move his body so he could elevate his rib cage, especially the right part of his rib cage,

so he could get air into his lungs. remember, chuck, his trachea, his main windpipe, was already being narrowed by the knee of derek chauvin. you had less ability to get air in. here you are, to take an effective breath, you have to be able to elevate the rib cage. so that moving seen the knuckles trying to push up, creating the space to move the rib cage is vital to catch your breath. >> add the handcuffs. explain that -- i think dr. tobin, it's how -- you have the knee in the neck and your body is being contorted in a way, what else is that closing off? >> well, so it's closing off the ability to have in effect a breath. the fact the handcuffs are behind your back here and the way they're behind your back and the fact he can't actually -- you need your arms and hands at

that point, he's in the prone position, to be able to lift up and move your rib cage. the fact he can't actually use his appendages to be able to push back, to push back on the weight against mr. chauvin, is a key piece here. he's basically defenseless. and he's not able to move his rib cage. which is why you're seeing the movement with the knuckles, trying to press up against anything he can, trying to contort his hips. that's the only thing he had here was his hips to move and pivot so he could open up one side of his lungs. that's the key piece here. i will also say on this notion of fentanyl was in his system and somehow had to do with what was happening, if anybody knows anything about fentanyl and it's physical effects on the body know it depresses your rate. the fact hiss respiratory rate was high normal 22, that fundamentally argues against some sort of defense oh, well, he had fentanyl in his system.

if fentanyl was playing a role, it would have depressed his respiratory rate to say 8 or 6, low single digits. the fact it was 22 is like he was trying to compensate. normally we breathe 10, 12 breaths a minute but the fact he was almost double the normal respiratory rate suggested he was fighting and had the ability to fight because he wasn't being compromised by a drug or metabolite. >> david henderson, what should be read into the decision by the prosecution to bring dr. tobin in before the medical examiner testifies? are they concerned of what's known in that medical examiner's report? >> chuck, i think they know dr. tobin is a much stronger witness than the medical examiner. in honestly, that's a fair point. i think he's going to be a stronger witness than just about anybody. you have to remember medical examiners are like other typical governor employees. too much work to, do stretched thin, reports aren't perfect and most of the time, they don't

need to be. i think if they realized that, almost always when they're dealing with a report from a medical examiner, you have to go meet with them in person and ask, hey, what does this say? what caused the death? i can't tell based on what you have written. then they will sit down and explain it to you and you figure out how to present it in court. but you have a witness like dr. tobin willing to come in and explain for free, why not put him on? he's a better witness. >> were there any holes in what dr. tobin testified to that the prosecution ought to be nervous about when the defense begins their cross? >> i was listening to the doctor talk answering your questions wondering what dr. tobin as effective as i thought he was, it turned out the answer is yes, he in fact was. i could normally come up with a way to poke holes in just about anything in court. i'm hard-pressed to figure out what it would be. if i was nelson, what i would be doing is ending my break calling my experts, praying they can come up with something for me to

use, realizing full well at this point i may have to pivot to another type of defense. dr. tobin did a very good job of working us through four different factors. you have to try to create confusion. that's the only thing you can do on cross-examination here. >> i want to play the fentanyl sound bite we have from right before the lunch break. let me play his explanation of why he believes fentanyl played no role in george floyd's death. take a listen. >> that would mean a normal respiratory rate of between 12 and 22, that's the normal range of respiratory rate. and so if it was with fentanyl, you would expect a respiratory rate of 10. instead, you counted here yourself, and you can see when you count it yourself the respiratory rate was 22. basically it tells you there isn't fentanyl on board.

>> so let me start with you, dr. gupta. you had said, does this rule out fentanyl or is it possible he could have taken it but it had not taken effect yet? >> i mean, chuck, common things being common here, the likely cause in medicine we deal with the differential diagnosis, what's likely to have caused his death, george floyd's death. overwhelmingly it's oxygen deprivation causing a cardiac arrest. fentanyl -- and dr. tobin really points it out critically, if fentanyl was the cause here of his respiratory decline and low oxygen levels, his respiratory rate would have been depressed. normal is 10 to 12 breaths a minute. he would have been frankly six or less. bong him and i are intensive care physicians. you give somebody fentanyl and high enough doses, they're going to be sleepy. they're going to take very intermittent breaths, they're not going to take 22 breaths a

minute, which is what mr. floyd was breathing at what he was pinned down. >> so, david, considering the fentanyl testimony, would you say that's probably the biggest technical blow to the defense? >> i think so. when i say biggest technical blow, chuck, it's difficult because part of what you have to remember is this jury won't have someone like dr. gupta to explain the context of this medical testimony. they're going to have to figure out which experts to believe. and i have -- i cannot imagine anyone is going to come across as more credible in this courtroom than dr. tobin has. he's remarkable at teaching a jury what his testimony means, walking him through it in a csi-type fashion, even inviting them to touch their neck. jurors eat this stuff up like candy. so in the context of how he presented the evidence, yes, i think that that is effectively dead with regard to the fentanyl defense. i think for any intelligent person watching the trial, it's basically over this point and comes down to argument. you just hope the prosecution

doesn't mess it up by calling too many witnesses that counterbalance the effectiveness of what we just saw. >> interesting. let me go back to shaq. number one, how many more experts do we expect after the medical examiner? and i also understand, this is -- dr. gupta addressed this at the start, this was perhaps as difficult of a day to watch this trial as any because of how often you had to sort of relive george floyd's death. i know this has been hard on the family today, especially, shaq. >> that's exactly right, chuck. we're getting an idea from the pool reports. two reporters in the room, here's one report of the family's reaction. that struck to the heart of the defense's argument. but in the pool report, there was the moment we heard the doctors say this was the moment that the life went out of george floyd's body, and that was the moment you saw all of the

jurors, looks like every juror wrote this down. then we saw the video of george floyd's face and they play it twice. they play it once and said we might need to play it again to slow it down in case the jury missed it. the pool report said the family looked straight ahead when they showed the video of george floyd's face as he loses consciousness. can't tell but they don't appear to be looking at the screen. the jurors were leaning in towards the monitor at that moment and that's when you heard, again, the doctor say that's the moment the life goes out of his body. we've been hearing and my colleague, dave gutierrez, who is kind of along the path as the family walks to the court every morning, we have been hearing how difficult this is for them to lusen to and how painful it has been for them to hear this. you just feel for them on that moment when they play the specific moment that this doctor is testifying george floyd lost his life not only once but they played it twice and in slow motion, chuck. >> it's hard to watch when

you're not related to him. i can only imagine when it's like for that family. shaquille brewster, david henderson and dr. vin gupta, i appreciate all three of you helping us unpack what we heard for the first half of today. we will, obviously, get back to the trial as soon as the lunch break is over. in a few moments we're going to dive into the other big breaking news that took place today. you caught a glimpse of it, i believe. president biden's road guard announcement as we grapple with another major shooting in america, it's coming across almost a daily basis. authorities say five people, including two children, died as a result of a shooting yesterday in south carolina. the local sheriff's office say they found the person they believe is responsible. authorities are planning to hold a press briefing on the incident at 2:00 p.m. eastern time. we're aware there are other news reports out there with names of this person. we have not confirmed it at nbc news. we're still working on that. the president referenced, by the way, the south carolina shooting this afternoon. while he called on congress to

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welcome back. in the wake of multiple high-profile mass shootings just in the last few weeks and with gun reform totally stalled in congress, president biden today announced his administration's first actions on gun violence. he unveiled six executive actions on guns, which he called initial steps. he called on the senate to act on measures like banning assault weapons and closing background check loopholes. >> whether congress acts or not, i'm going to use all of the resource at my disposal as president to keep the american people safe from gun violence

but there's much more that congress can do to help that effort. and they can do it right now. they offer plenty of thoughts and prayers as a member of congress but passed not a single new law to reduce gun violence. enough prayers. time for some action. >> president biden's executive actions include limitations on what are called ghosn gun ghost guns. homemade firearms from kits bought online. the biggest problem with them is they have no traceable serial number. they're also asking the department of justice to publish model legislation for states to follow and asking the doj to issue reports on firearms trafficking, they have not done since the year 2000. the president also nominated david chipman, former gun reform advocate, to lead atf, bureau of

alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives. joining me from outside the white house, my colleague nbc's mike memoli. there's two ways to look at this, is it a one-day event and it's back to infrastructure? i say this and i'm not dismissing what was done, but there are efforts white houses do that are designed to get congress to act and efforts white houses do to sort of say, this is the best we can do because congress won't act. where does this fall? >> chuck, i think the way to look at this is this is president biden laying down a marker, yes, that not necessarily is going to continue to be a priority in the short term but does factor into the long-term strategy here at the white house. this is an issue that's both personal and, also, yes, political for president biden. he, of course, as a senator passed the assault weapons ban. he just told me a few weeks ago when i asked him about chris murphy on your show saying he thought there might be 60 votes

for meaningful gun reform, he said yes, he's prepared to make calls and reminded me i'm the only one who has gotten meaningful gun legislation passed. he does think this is something he ran on and can deliver on as president. in terms of the timing, obviously, the white house's first, second and third priority is the jobs plan, infrastructure and all of the other components through some time this year. but biden and the team around him knows very well the increasing power they believe for democrats of this issue politically. they want to lay the marker down today, draw attention to it. the president got further ahead than the white house officials told us in the wake of boulder not to expect much in the immediate future from this president. but they believe when the bell rings on the midterm elections can be powerful, yes, for some members of congress but particularly senators in the purple districts, purple states, that have been shown meaningful to moving voters in the fall. >> i guess that's the question,

do you need more political -- do you need more political complains to be influenced by the gun issue in order to get politicians to act? perhaps that's where we're stuck. mike memoli at the white house, thank you very much for more i want to join in the director of the giffords law center and i also want to say the atf nominee is a gifford adviser. walk us through the executive actions today. on one hand if you're a gun reform advocate, you're happy with the executive actions, but you're consistently frustrated with congress. this administration is on your side. are they fighting hard enough? >> the steps the president took today are an incredible move in the right direction. he spoke about six different measures the white house is going to be taking.

that includes, as you mentioned, issuing rules on ghost guns, stabilizing braces, red flag law which the administration will publish to model but motivate states financially to pass laws on this. release reports on firearms trafficking will go a long way to empower law enforcement to understand the kinds of trends we are seeing in the movement of illegal guns in this country. it's astounding. there has not been a report in more than 20 years. obviously, the nomination of atf director is a huge step. we haven't had a permanent director in far too long. one of the things you and have the mentioned that's also incredibly significant is a huge investment of money into community violence intervention strategies, $5 billion over eight years. that is a huge investment and can make a tremendous difference in the most impacted communities in this country. >> but at the end of the day, it's about congress. do you think in order to get

political will in congress, there has to be more political campaigns run on this issue? i mean, do you think that republicans are just not there yet and they have to see more problems at the ballot box on this issue? >> i think that would certainly be help. . when we do polling, we see 70%, 80%, 90% of americans support all of these measures. we already know the american people stand behind it and we are already seeing so many of these federal legislators running for office on a gun safety platform. we saw a huge shift in 2018 and again in 2020, even with the president running as somebody who believes in gun safety and gun reform. so this is already winning elections. now, we have a very closely tied senate. we know really getting so many things done is going to be difficult but we believe there's an urgency here. last year gun violence was on one of the highest levels in this country in 40 years. even with the lockdown and the

pandemic last year, we are seeing hugely increased rates of gun violence and now a resurgence of mass shootings, it really is urgent. i believe the american people are fed up and going to be demanding action on this. >> robyn, do you think there's -- put on your legal hat here for me. do you think there is room in the national firearms act? the law that was passed in the '30s that banned machine guns, do you think that law can be reinterpreted to deal with assault weapons without congress intervening? >> i think that ideally it would be done through congressional action. the way it's written refers to very specific types of firearms. so fully automatic weapons, sawed-off shotguns, short barrel guns, silencers. so it's actually relatively specific as to the types of weapons that fall under the jurisdiction of the nsa and how the process works. the process works absolutely brilliantly. if you look at the kinds of guns

and violence we see, you almost never see the type of weapons being regulated used in crimes and proliferated, even though they can be legally owned. so i think it would be an outstanding way to regulate semiautomatic assault weapons that present such a huge threat in mass shootings. we can look at the model that is presented and how effectively it's worked. i do think though, if we're going to pull additional weapons it would be done by congress and i don't see any reason why it couldn't be. >> i'm curious, take this gun stabilizer that we know that has been -- the president is taking action on. if it gives a weapon the effect of what was supposed to be banned by that national firearms act, you know, i guess it didn't exist when they wrote the law. is it just because it's not written into it, there's no way this could sort of get grandfathered in?

>> you know essentially things like bunt stocks, we saw them used in las vegas and it raised the same issue we are seeing now with the arm brace. of we see how these new accessories are literally being designed to circumvent the regulation. what that requires is for atf or congress to act to make sure that these accessories are included in a definition that re12rik9 them either under the nfs or displanned them if they're too dangerous for sixens to acquire. i think these type of accessories and i'll sure these won't be the last ones, it's an innovative industry and we're seeing new types of guns and accessories being released all the time. it requires robust analysis by the congress and atf so civilians can't easily get ahold

of them and we see incredibly violent and tragic shooting in this country easily perpetrated. we need to be assertive about it, look at what's out there in the marketplace and be sure to regulate in a way that protects public safety and protects our communities. >> atf, it's been a long running, nra tried to neuter or tie the hands of atf a couple decades now. they rigged the rules for a while to do this. their power is much less. looks like you may get -- mr. chipman may actually get confirmed. what do you skekt him to do to at tf? what do you think he can bring to atf that would bring a change? >> i think it's been hard for atf over, gosh, the last 15 years with difficulty getting strong leadership at the helm to get the proper resourcing that it needs. i think the most fundamental thing atf needs in order to do its job effectively, help make

sure we're as safe as can be as a country, looking at traffic regulations of firearms, they need funding to properly oversee it, like the firearms deals, to make sure they can probably do the investigations they need to to look into trafficking and all of the other types of illegal gun sales going on online. i believe with strong leadership and acumen, the agency can do a far better job that it's supposed to be doing to ensure we're looking at the tragic ongoing pandemic in this country in a way that allows us to make progress. and i think david chipman is the perfect person for that job. he has an incredible wealth of experience within atf. >> okay. well, atf, completely underutilized agency on a number of things, including on our issues with domestic extremism too. there's a lot of good work atf acts do and can be done.

robyn thomas, thank you for coming on and sharing your perspective. >> thanks for having me. while the president is going alone on guns, the white house seems like they do want to negotiate on infrastructure. at this point is compromise just going to be about getting biden's own party on board? that's next. hi mr. charles, we made you dinner. ahh, thank you! ready to eat? yes i am! we started with computers. we didn't stop at computers. we didn't stop at storage or cloud. we kept going. working with our customers to enable the kind of technology that can guide an astronaut back to safety. and help make a hospital come to you, instead of you going to it. so when it comes to your business, you know we'll stop at nothing.

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changes are certain. in the next few weeks, the vice president and i will be meeting with republicans and democrats to hear from everyone, and we will be listening. we will be open to good ideas and good-faith negotiations. >> welcome back. the ultimate fate of president biden's ambitious agenda from structure, which he was addressing in that clip, to gun reforms, you heard him speak about today, may be an unpopular word in politics right now, compromise. at a press conference yesterday, congresswoman jeanetta amundio showcased what she said was a good-faith attempt to compromise. a group of moderate republicans bristled at the criticism they were not willing to compromise on last month's covid relief package, which ultimately passed with just democratic votes. then there's senator john manchin redoubling down on his stand he does not support

shortkutz in the senate designed for compromise. and reaffirming the filibuster as the senator say senate rules will allow them to bypass the filibuster more regularly anyway. what does this mean for the president's agenda as he faces a democratic base that wants to go big? joining me now is garrett haake. garrett, i think that's the question here. i want to play gina rimando and jennifer granholm who are saying basically let's talk, let's make a deal. take a listen. >> so there's room for compromise. but that is clear. the president has said a few things, we have to get this investment done. he's charged us to work across the aisle in a bipartisan way. >> well, i think he said from the very beginning that he wants to see compromise. he wants to have this be bipartisan.

>> and the question i keep coming back to, garrett, i'm going to take the biden administration at their word that they want to negotiate with republicans. does congressional democratic leadership? >> congressional democratic leadership understands they may not have any choice, that's the reality here. it's not so much a question of go big or go alone. you might not be able to go alone. you look at the majority you have here, you have a 50/50 majority which isn't really a functional majority when you have john manchin essentially saying he's not going to go along on guns or hr-1 or pick your issue that they might be able to do on a 50/50 world absent the filibuster. on the house side the democratic margin is so narrow, speaker pelosi can only afford to lose two or three votes on any given issue. getting republican support isn't just something that's allowed him to claim bipartisan, it may be necessary to pass any of these priorities beyond the emergency covid bill that already got through.

>> well, let me ask you this, let's go to john manchin here a minute. manchin does what he does yesterday in that op-ed. i think it's interesting he reaffirmed that position just two reaffirmed that position just two days after chuck schumer found out, we can use reconciliation more often. what is schumer taking away from the op-ed? >> reporter: i don't think the schumer world is too concerned about it right now. i think what you saw in regards to the filibuster was the conclusion of a process manchin has been going through, really, since his interview on "meet the press" with you, chuck, where he seemed to open the door to going to a talking filibuster or some other bigger filibuster reform. he's been walking that back very slowly over the last few weeks. he sort of finished the process with that op-ed last night. his points of reconciliation in the op-ed are important.

i don't think they're particularly concerned that manchin will walk away from the now, but when i saw that op-ed, i was thinking of john mccain on his effort to kill obamacare when he said, regular order, regular order, we have to go back to regular order. joe manchin is not there yet, but if democrats in the senate keep pushing reconciliation as a way to do things, instead of compromise which is the way manchin prefers doing it, could we see a john mccain somewhere down the line? i think it's possible. >> i think manchin has felt that he's become the democratic party and everything john mccain for folks. appreciate it, sir. up ahead, we have a sneak peek of something we're pretty fired up about around here, so stick around for that. d here, so stick around for that.

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are premiering season 2 of our streaming show "meet the press reports." it debuts tonight. every thursday we take a deep dive into one issue. our first focus is the rise of domestic extremism in this country. my partner sat down with a former member of the extremist group europa. take a listen. >> i think what's so shocking about this movement in today's day and age is here you are, you have your wits about you. how do you end up in this space? >> i think part of the reason i decided to speak up is because there are so many high-ranking people in this movement. they were emts, they were doctors, they were your neighbors, they were your family members, still believing it all of this stuff, and i think that is what makes all of this so dangerous and so -- it's just

terrifying. >> look, it's a powerful story that morgan put together. it's something you really can't miss. please don't miss it tonight. our season 2 kicks off tonight. it's streaming on nbc news now, but it's available ondemand, on peacock beginning tomorrow. and you can watch all of our season 1 episodes which were very much part of the campaign 2020 theme. all of those are ondemand right now. we'll be taking deep dives into secrets of democracy, security, our water supply, climate and much more. so don't miss it. that does it for us. thanks for being with us this hour. msnbc's coverage of the trial will continue after the lunch break is over, and msnbc continues after this break with my friend katy tur. friend katyr

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good afternoon, i'm katy tur. a critical shift in day nine of the derek chauvin murder trial in minneapolis. after days of focus on the use of force, the prosecution is now zeroing in on what caused george floyd's death. riveting testimony from dr. martin tobin, an expert pull -- pulmonologist, who wrote