strassel, where she talks about how the democrats are fine letting the republicans talk about these things. they want to let them talk about spending, because they think that will hurt them in the long run. >> i guess we'll see. glenn johnson, thank you very much for being up early with us. to that point, congress is back in session this week. the push for that infrastructure package gets fully underway here. so far, voters are still on president biden's side. we'll see if republicans get any traction in changing that, considering what we saw over the weekend. thank you all for getting up "way too early" with us on this monday morning. don't go anywhere. "morning joe" starts right now. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, april 12th. let's get right to the news. protests erupted last night in minnesota after the police-involved shooting of a black man during the traffic stop. it happened in the city of

brooklyn center, about ten miles north of minneapolis, where tensions are already high amid the murder trial of former officer derek chauvin. family has identified the victim as 20-year-old dante wright. according to the brooklyn center police department, officers were attempting to make a traffic stop, when just before 2:00 a.m., they decided the driver had an outstanding warrant for his arrest. police tried to take him into custody, but they say he reentered his vehicle. that's when one officer fired a weapon, hitting the driver. the driver died at the scene of the crash. brooklyn center officers wear body cameras and the police department said yesterday that it believes the body cameras and dash cameras were on during this incident. in the hours after the shooting, hundreds of protesters gathered

outside the brooklyn center police department headquarters and clashed with officers in riot gear. multiple rounds of tear gas were fired by law enforcement in an effort to disperse the crowd. minnesota's department of public health said overnight that the national guard was being mobilized at the request of local authorities. it came amid reports of looting targeting the brooklyn center walmart and a nearby shopping mall. let's bring in the host of msnbc's "politics nation" and president of the national action center, reverend al sharpton. we also have with us, professor at princeton university, eddie glaude jr., and former member of president obama's task force on 21st century policing, cedric alexander. he's a former public safety director in dekalb county in georgia. good to have you all this morning. >> reverend sharpton, you've obviously been following events on the ground very closely in minneapolis, in touch with the

family every day during the trial. give us your reaction to what happened yesterday and last night in minneapolis. >> well, what is very disturbing is that even as the nation watches the trial of derrick chauvin, who is on trial for killing george floyd, by putting his knee on the neck for 9 minutes and 27 seconds, we are right in the suburbs of the same city an unarmed man killed by police, that they say that they were seeking him because of a warrant. well, the immediate reaction i'm getting on the ground, i talked to people there last night, is that even if the young man was wrong or should have been ever one that submitted to an arrest if a warrant was legitimate, it does not warrant his being killed, which is why there was some outrage and protests last night. we're still looking for the facts. but you must also remember, joe,

the same weekend, we see this video from virginia, of a black man in army fatigues that was pepper sprayed because he wanted to drive where there was a area to enter where the police had. he had no one, did nothing wrong, was a member of the armed forces in army fatigues. they pepper sprayed him. and when he said, i'll get out of the card, i'm afraid, they said, you have reason to be. this is why law enforcement in this country must be addressed. it's a national problem from george floyd to what happened yesterday in brookline in the outskirts of minneapolis to what happened in virginia. we have to come to terms with how we're going to police the police. >> reverend al, since you brought that up. let's bring that into the conversation right now. u.s. army second lieutenant

filed a lawsuit this month saying his rights were violated during an incident. the lawsuit first obtained by "the washington post" says that he is asking for at least $1 million in damages and for the court to rule his constitutional rights were violated. nazario's lawsuit claims he was originally pulled over for not having a rear license plate, but video shows he had a temporary plate in the car window. we should note, the video was provided by the attorney for nazario. officer crocker wrote in his report that he believed nazario was alluding police and called it a high-risk traffic stop. i wonder why, though. let's take a look. >> get out of the car! get out of the car now! >> what's going on? >> what's going on is you're fixing to ride the lightning, son.

you received an order, obey it. >> i'm honestly afraid to get out. >> yeah, you should be. get out! >> back up! >> whoa! hold on! what's going -- >> get out of the car and get on the ground now or you're going to get it again! >> i'll do -- >> take your seat belt off and get out of the car! >> nazario heard there saying he didn't want to reach for his seat belt. one of the reasons why is because sometimes when somebody reaches into their car, they think they're reaching for a gun. i don't know why they put this man in this position. the army lieutenant was eventually released without being charged in an incident report from gutierrez. the officer wrote, they decided again charges because they didn't want to -- they didn't want the stop to affect nazario's military rank. are you kidding me? >> it should affect the rank of

the officer that behaved extraordinarily -- >> nazario's lawyer says the lieutenant was threatened not to report the incident if he didn't want his career destroyed. virginia governor ralph northam responded in a statement yesterday saying, quote, the incident in windsor is disturbing and angered me. i am directing the virginia state police to conduct an independent investigation. officials from windsor, virginia, said the officers failed to follow use of force policies and officer gutierrez has been fired. nbc news has reached out to both officers involved for comment, but has not heard back. and joe, we watched this video in its entirety. it starts back in the car with the officers before they open the door and even get out. they draw their guns right away. and we said to each other, we'd be afraid to get out if two cops were pointing loaded guns at us screaming at the top of their lungs. this escalated because there was

so much fear involved from the get-go, fear that didn't need to be there. >> as a 6'4" white man -- >> and they pepper sprayed him! >> -- from the south. if i were in the lieutenant's position and i had a police officer this out of control and i was showing my hands, showing my arms outside of the window and i stated that i was afraid to get out of the car, and for good reason, because this officer was so amped up, out of control, crazy, if i were afraid, being in that position, what about a black man who is seen time and again throughout his life that black men, especially are treated differently than other americans, when it comes to

being stopped in the car. and eddie glaude, he did everything correctly. he was fearful for good reason. so what did he do? he drove to a well-lit area. >> hopefully with cameras. >> where everybody could see. >> hoping that cameras were there. he wanted to make sure that everybody saw everything that happened. they drew their guns on a guy, on a lieutenant! for god's sakes! a lieutenant! serving our country! protecting us every day! a lieutenant in uniform who put his hands outside of the car and continued to be told to show his hands, but get out of the car at the same time! eddie, this was -- well, as mika was saying, this was just absolutely offensive. >> a lieutenant who probably has mental health effects from something that happened in america rather than what happened when he was serving

abroad. can you imagine? >> and even asking them to take care of his dog in the backseat, who had, was obviously prbably choking on the pepper spray as well. this is disgusting. the governor and the police officers, the people that lead the police officers in this area, in this state, need to figure out how the hell this happened. this is sickening. especially, eddie glaude, if they are this insensitive during the george floyd trial, then there really is little hope for this officer or any of these officers. >> right, joe, so the interesting thing is that this officer may -- he was fired. he may very well be hired within a month or so at another police station. but, look, it's very difficult for black folk in this moment to give police officers the benefit of the doubt that they're going to treat us like human beings, right? so here we have this moment,

where as soon as you pull into the lighted gas station, joe, you see that he has a temporary tag in his window. so the very reason for the stop is no longer obtained. and then you get out with your guns pointed and you end up in the situation where this lieutenant is on the ground weeping, asking, why are you treating me like this? and i think it's important to connect this moment with what we saw last night? because the death, the murder at the end is the consequence of a former policing that eventuates in the death. so what we have to do is look at why are black folk being policed. joe, you never have to worry about. you tell me. mika, you tell me if you ever have to worry about your child being killed by a police officer because of a traffic stop. getting the call that dante wright's mom or father got? do you ever worry that a police officer will kill your child because of air freshener hanging from the rearview mirror, or that i, your husband, joe, will

get stopped and then put on the ground, handcuffed, threatened to be lit up with lightning, called a corporal, a specialist, and then when he says, i'm a second lieutenant, told to get on the ground, brought to tears. do you ever think you would experience that? the killing, the death, is a consequence of a form of policing that leads up to the confrontation. that's what we have to address. we always address it at the end. and we're not getting to the process, what happens between the stop and the death that is actually precipitating events. >> and because we don't have time to show the whole thing, i ask everybody at home to please, if you haven't seen it, to do it. because we just showed certain points near the end. you do get a chance to see the buildup on the body cams and how this lieutenant expressed his concerns from the very beginning

that he was afraid to get out of the car, he showed his hands, he went to a well-lit area, he did everything that someone who got pulled over, who was afraid of a police officer, who was jacked up and out of control, was afraid that if he got out, he was going to end up dead, just like george floyd. >> and they put him on the ground and they kept telling him to get on the ground, which i can't even imagine how frightening that must have been. and then, here is an exchange that happened after the incident began to settle down in terms of the high emotions at play and the victim here, is standing by a car and the officers are now trying to explain what happened. this exchange makes me wonder why he's only suing for $1 million. take a look. >> i understand you want to get

to a well-lit area. i get that. but when we follow you that long -- look at the climate of this day. against everybody. against us, against y'all. >> against everybody. >> cedric alexander. >> really, the climate's bad for them. >> throughout my adult life, i've always tried to give benefit of the doubt to police officers. and i've said it on the show, you will never here me on this show for police officers, whether they are black, hispanic, white, asian american. if they're kicking down doors, if they're in a dangerous situation and they make a split-second mistake, well, we don't know what it's like unless we're in that position. but in this case, like the george floyd case, they knew what was going on. they had minute after minute after minute to correct their wrongs. and they just refused to do it.

they continued to humiliate a lieutenant! a lieutenant! who was serving their country! when they not only had the responsibility, but you would assume, had the training to draw back and calm down. and understand they had made a terrible mistake. but it just went from bad to worse. and they had to humiliate the black man, get him on the ground, shove the lieutenant on the ground until he started weeping. it is disgusting. and i just want to know that you've been studying this for a long time. why do we keep seeing videos like this, even a year after george floyd's death? >> well, first of all, thank you for having me this morning. but let me say, joe, i had a number of people call me here

last night and very early this morning here in pensacola. just to discuss what they had witnessed through this video. i'm a 40-year police veteran. i'm retired. i'm back at home. i spend a lot of time talking about reform and reimagining policing and trying to do my heart to help change this. but this video that we're looking at, it is painfully egregious. and for him to have gone through what he experienced, not just the fact that he's a soldier, which is really important, but the fact that he's a human being. but let me start by saying this about that traffic stop. they called this in as a felony stop. that was not a felony stop, because you cannot see someone's tag displayed. he called it in as a felony stop. and as you noticed in your reporting, he even lied about the type of stop that it was, what had occurred. and then we see this ongoing

humiliation, this ongoing just horrible treatment of an individual, a human being, who happens to be a military soldier. and we see it in this time that this country is in, where we're trying to fix the things that have been wronged since inception of policing. this is not a new issue, it's just that we are able to catch it now on video and we're seeing it over and over and over again. american policing in this country is broken, is going to have to be fixed. we cannot continue to move forward the way that we're doing now and expect somehow miraculously overnight something is going to change. it's going to take a lot of legislation at the federal, state, and local levels in order to change these behaviors, because even if you look at that traffic stop, tactically, tactically, if that was a felony stop, it was totally inaccurate,

wrong. was not trained that way. but it was not a felon stop to begin with. and in addition to all of that, the humiliation, calling him out the way that they did, you're going to ride the lightning, no, officer, gutierrez, you should have been fired the night that this occurred. and he should never be in policing again. and quite frankly, those who hired him in that city from his elected official down to his police chief need to be held responsible. and not just monetarily, but held responsibly politically, by having that type of personality and individual as part of their police ranks. it's not all about training. it's who we're hiring. and we're not hiring the right people for these jobs. >> amen. >> that is right. >> and i just -- i just got to say here over the past year, it's not just cedric saying that and eddie saying that and the rev saying that, they will all

confirm, they hear that, i hear that from police officers all the time, who look at these videos and go, my god, what the hell is happening in the ranks there? why isn't there better discipline? and rev, something that i know you hear all the time, something that mika and i were saying when we were watching this unfold on video is, my god, how many times does this happen when the body cams aren't on? how many times did this happen before we started having body cams? before we started -- >> how could body cams have ever been a debate? >> -- having cameras on our phones. we're only seeing this now obviously because of the technology of the past 10, 15 years. and it shows -- you and i have been talking about body cams nonstop. every police officer in america has to have it. they have to be turned on if an incident like this happens, and

they don't have it on, then they -- the burden of proof is on them. but rev, how many times does this happen, when the body cams aren't on? >> and that is a real, real fear that we live with every day in our communities. let me tell you, if it was not for the 21st century task force that president obama had, there would not be as much body cameras available as there are. i believe cedric was on that task force. we had to fight for that. and i hope this administration and this congress will legislate. we've done the demonstration, we need the legislation. this will not stop until bad police and most police are not bad, but bad police know they will be held accountable, until they know qualified immunity is not going to show to them. until they know there is a penalty for this. we are faced this morning with

this tape, with a 20-year-old young man unarmed, that is dead, whose family is going to be reaching out to someone. that's what people like me and national action network step in. how can we explain this over and over again without changing the laws. the good news is, you are right. many police are now beginning to speak up. for the first time, we saw police officers take the stand in minneapolis and testify against chauvin. which i have not seen in the years that i've been out here fighting against police misconduct. i've never seen the blue wall pierced as it has in minneapolis. but even as that happened, a policeman still can take his gun and shoot and kill right in the same county that this trial is going on. we need to deal with, if there is no legislation, there will not be a change in behavior in bad cops. bad cops are not going to be converted. they have to therefore be convicted in the court of law if

they do what is wrong. >> and as you've said. be called out by good cops. if vast majority of law enforcement officers, be they hispanic or black or white, who put their lives on the line every day to protect us. just as it's happening in minneapolis, it has to happen across the country. good cops have to call out these punks. and one final thing, i just want to say, lieutenant nazario, we are so grateful for your service to this country. and i know a grateful nation is embarrassed, is humiliated by what you were put through. and we're praying for you and we're thanking you again for the decisions you've made throughout your life to serve this country in uniform. thank you so much. >> reverend al sharpton and

cedric alexander, thank you both very much for being on this morning, very early this morning. and still ahead on "morning joe," we're learning new details about what was going on inside the capitol during the deadly january 6th riot, including pleas from vice president mike pence to clear the area. we'll go over that new timeline. >> mike pence making the pleas. while donald trump was celebrating -- >> making the opposite pleas -- >> -- watching television, celebrating. yes, with coronavirus cases on the rise in michigan, governor gretchen whitmer is pressing the white house for more vaccines, but so far the administration isn't budging. we'll explain why. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back.

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the former president is using the same language that he knows provoked violence on january 6th. we know as a party, we need to be focused on the future, on embracing the constitution, not embracing insurrection. >> the third-ranking house committee liz cheney focusing on donald trump's comments as headliner as the retreat in mar-a-lago over the weekend. cheney was not in attendance, but reports are that trump praised the people who attended his rally that sparked the capitol riot. and attacked the republicans who refused to go along with his false claims about a stolen election. a source tells nbc news he told senate minority leader mitch mcconnell a dumb son of a "b" and a stone-cold loser. and said, quote, a real leader

would have never accepted the electoral results. he also attacked georgia governor brian kemp, who stood by georgia's a results. trump said he was, quote, disappointed in mike pence for certifying the election. the associated press reports that some attendees were left feeling uncomfortable. >> no way! >> really? >> you're in a room with this guy who was -- >> you're now uncomfortable?! >> -- a fascist as a president. even though you may not have been a fascist voting for him, he was a fascist president, who tried to undermine an election, who tried to have his opponent arrested. >> you're now uncomfortable? >> two weeks before the election and you're now uncomfortable. >> that's amazing. >> you have a very high threshold. >> one of trump's chief defenders, former house speaker newt gingrich told the ap, quote, we are much better off if we keep focusing on the democrats, period.

huh. also notable is donald trump's political war chest compared to the rnc, as they prepare for the 2022 midterms. >> not good. but at least we know if you're a republican, that donald trump is going to share that money with -- never mind. this is what donald trump has done to you. donald trump, $85 million. the party, $84 million. >> and i love the quote that somebody had there. like, why are you here? after all of this? and she said, well, because we were losers before donald trump came along. he showed us how to win. oh! you have the first guy since hebert hoover that the only one-term president since herbert hoover to lose the white house, to lose the house, and to lose the senate. and now you're looting the republican national committee's coffers and giving it to this

guy, which is not going to help the republican party. this guy who, you know, just last week, we found out about a scam that he was conducting, where poor working class americans, middle class americans had their bank accounts drained, because they had such sleazy tactics. used purposefully sleazy tactics to fool working class americans into having their bank accounts can drained for donald trump. wow, that's -- that's somebody to support. >> let's bring in white house supporter for the associated press, jonathan lamir, co-founder of punch bowl news, ana palmer, and u.s. national editor at the "financial times," ed luce. >> jonathan lemire, i've run out of historical metaphors. i get all the way back to

charlemagne seeing the burning cross for our boston red sox, but they won yet again. i'm afraid i'll have to go back to the campaigns of alexander the great if this winning streak keeps going on. we have to prepare, though, because we have a pre-game show on clubhouse. since 1946, after we got back from the war. >> that was our debut season. but things are looking up at the moment. the historical comparisons right now, we made need to go to the old testament to find an analogy for how the red sox are playing at this moment. j.d. martinez, three more home runs. the red sox pregame show out there that no one knew they needed, but are so glad they have. a cost of thousands will be doing it again later today, before the red sox take on the

first-place red sox take on the minnesota twins. >> yeah, the first place red sox, it's sweeping every team that gets in the way. ed luce, we're going to go from baseball, who we know only about three or four people like who are listening to this right now. >> it's not -- >> so what happened in south florida. donald trump goes in, attacking the republican party, just like did -- just like he did in georgia, leading up to those runoffs. he's dividing the money. he keeps the money for himself. and yet these republicans still blindly continue to follow a guy who has put them in minority status in washington, d.c.. >> yeah, joe, i was terrified you were going to ask me about the red sox, so thank you for

asking me about -- >> oh, ed. >> the center of gravity for the whole republican party has moved with trump and the trump family to your state, to florida. and i think the state that the whole rnc retreat, this spring retreat shifted from palm beach to mar-a-lago to hear assassinate most of the republican leadership is a more than just symbolic. the center to have gravity is there. the period after a defeat like this, when you've lost both chambers of congress plus the white house is normally one for reflection, for reform, and for rebuilding. but who are we talking about? we're talking about donald trump. donald trump remains the conversation. people who were upset with what he said on saturday at mar-a-lago have been quoted anonymously. they're not coming out by name,

except one or two like liz cheney, who were already outcasts from the trump world. they're not coming out by name and saying, look, we've got to change. this man is a death wish. the party is going to sink if we stick to a trumpian agenda. they're not coming out by name. and until they do come out by name, the party remains trump's. i think it's also worth noting, you gave those money figures. the trumpian figures like josh hawley and marjorie taylor greene are having absolute bonanza fund-raising the first quarter. they've both raised in excess of $3 million. people who are quite about trump or less trumpian are not raising money. i think the small donor base is still with trump, unfortunately. money talks, and it's pretty clear where the base remains. >> yeah, mika, this is just a dream for democrats.

>> it's unbelievable. >> a democrat -- if donald trump were a double agent for the democratic party, he could not be doing the democrats anymore favors than he's doing right now. he loses the white house. he loses the senate for republicans. he loses the house for republicans. he says, don't give the republican party any money. don't give the people who actually know how to target senate races and know how to target house races, don't give them any money. give me money. and as we found out, all the money that he was scooping in, claiming he was going to -- and it was a complete scam. i like to see conservative outlets investigate that complete scam. but he was going to stop the steal, give me this money. and we found out he was just taking that money, taking parts of that to repay the money from the scam he was conducting in the final months of the campaign, for working class

americans who wanted to support him ended having their bank accounts drained and they didn't know what happened. so that scam continues. >> if conservative outlets actually investigated people like trump, they would be helping the republican party. >> they don't want to. they don't care about the republican party. >> i know. >> they don't care about the conservative movement. >> but if they did -- >> they won't do a deep dive into donald trump and the sleazy tactics that he's using right now. right now to destroy the republican party. and to destroy the conservative movement. >> which actually makes them not conservative outlets. that's a whole another conversation. so ana palmer, the word that has been used for trump over the past four years or so, especially on the world stage, has been the concern that he's a useful idiot for the russians. and as joe points out, he could be now the democrats' most

useful idiot. what are you hearing on capitol hill about all of this? >> i think there's a lot of frustration, particularly in the senate, with what donald trump is doing. i don't think they think it's helpful. clearly, the question we'll all be asking this week as senate republicans come back into the chamber to mitch mcconnell is, what's the reaction to the fact that the former president is not only calling you by name, calling you nasty things, but also calling out your wife and never being thankful for her position in his administration. to mitch mcconnell, i assume he says, i have no observations. he doesn't want to engage with this president. he wants to bring back the majority, but like joe said, everything that the president is doing right now is not helpful to mitch mcconnell. it doesn't make members of the republican party necessarily want to stay in congress. he's dealing with a ton of retirements. it's also going to be very hard to recruit candidates in some of these key states. north carolina, pennsylvania, republicans that he probably

wants to have run, that aren't in the trumpian wing of the party in order for them to actually be able to win. >> and jonathan lemire, you look and again see that money is being taken out of the republican senate committee, it's been taken out of the nrcc. and it's all going to mar-a-lago. it's all going to donald trump. that's money they're not -- every dollar he gets is money they're not going to be able to spend on races. especially when, you know, if he's calling mitch mcconnell all the things he's calling mitch mcconnell, do you think or does anybody in the republican party think donald trump wants mitch mcconnell to be senate majority leader in 2023, in january 2023? if you have any questions, let me answer that question for you, friends. no! he is working against the

interests of the republican party and the conservative movement, still. >> donald trump, noted team player when it comes to the interests of the republican party, joe, yeah, no, this is about himself here. his aides have carried forth his message now for months, that he's about vengeance and wants to wreak havoc, more on republicans than democrats. those he feels that have betrayed him. those who didn't back him up during his plans to contest the election. and those who criticized him after the events of january 6th, when a violent mob stormed the capitol in his name. and he is -- he does, indeed, have mcconnell on his sights. we're not sure where he stand on kevin mccarthy these days, either. and it's a number of republicans that he's targeting. while we don't nope what kind of apparatus he has, it's a very rag tag group of people around him currently, in mar-a-lago, to actually forge forward and support primary candidacies.

and we know he doesn't have the influence he used to because of twitter, but he's the loudest voice in the republican party, eddie glaude. and i want to put you in a position you've never been in before. adviser to mitch mcconnell. if you're the current head nominally of the head of the republican party and you are seeing this come from south florida. you're seeing former president trump still try to throw his weight around the party and you believe that that's not in the best interest of the gop, how do you combat that when most of the party is still in the president's thrall. where they hold his convention in his backyard. how do you try to break free from this if you think it's the best move or just go along with it and see if trump can win you a couple of seats going forward? >> i have never been asked that kind of question before, ever, jonathan lemire. i appreciate it. >> this is what i do. >> i don't think you give him oxygen, to be honest with you. i think you try to ignore him, as best you can.

but who am i to give mitch mcconnell advice in this regard. but i think you have to understand or navigate these two -- they're intersecting developments. one is the fact that you have a resentful confidence man on the political landscape that is the former president of the united states. and the other is the very ways in which mitch mcconnell and the republican party has to appeal to that trumpian base, that is also the base of the republican party. you hear tucker carlson talking about replacement. you hear what former president trump is doing. why do you, on the one hand, ignore donald trump, but on the other hand, deal with that trumpian base that is in some ways, how, shall we say, the means by which you might in some way take back the senate or the house. i don't know how you navigate those two trends, but he has to, it seems to me. that wasn't any advice at all, i think. it's just a description of the problem. >> no, zero. >> i think, though, not giving him oxygen is always the best

advice. and ana, this is a real problem when you look again at those who were raising a lot of money, as ed luce said. those who are raising a lot of money right now are the qanon types and the conspiracy theorists, while people that are trying to be serious legislatures just aren't getting the energy behind their campaigns. i suspect that's why we're starting to see a lot of retirements and probably republican primaries that are going to be won by unelectable of right-wing conspiracy theorists. >> certainly, when you see what's happening at the kind of small donor online level, that really is where the enthusiasm for donald trump is, if you look at the house of representatives, a lot of those republicans were and continue and remain to be donald trump republicans. it really is the senate, when you look at what's happening there, with so many retirements.

that's going to be mitch mcconnell's, i think, biggest problem is going to be recruitment here and how can he recruit candidates that can win statewide? you know, mitch mcconnell has been a longtime, very good fund-raiser. there's going to be a lot of outside groups that are going to support him, in that effort, the super pac front and others. so i'm not necessarily concerned, if i was mitch mcconnell, that he's not going to have the money to win the senate. republicans aren't going to have the money to win. the question is going to be on these primaries. does donald trump actually really get behind some of these candidates that could cause a problem for him? >> all right. coming up, an investigation into how far right groups were emboldened and encouraged by former president trump and the ongoing threat these groups pose to american democracy. "morning joe" will be right back. rican democracy. "morning joe" will be right back

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we are learning more about the timeline of events and the state of panic that gripped washington during the january 6th riot, as rioters smashed windows and vandalized the house floor, then vice president mike pence reportedly ordered the defense department to, quote, clear the capitol. these details are coming to light through a previously undisclosed pentagon document prepared for internal use that was obtained by the associated press. a spokesman for pence declined to comment on the report. >> of course. >> the ap reports, elsewhere in the building, senate majority leader chuck schumer and house speaker nancy pelosi were making a similarly dire appeal to military leaders, asking the army to deploy the national guard. we need help, schumer said, in

desperation. more than an hour after the senate chamber had been breached. the timeline adds another layer of understanding about the state of fear and panic, while the insurrection played out, and lays bare the inaction by then president donald trump and how that void contributed to a slowed response by the military and law enforcement. it's really incredible. it shows that the intelligence missteps, tactical errors, and bureaucratic delays were eclipsed by the government's failure to comprehend the scale and intensity of a violent uprising by its own citizens. and ed luce, it appears that president trump could have cone so much to stop the impending riot, the danger and the pain that was being put upon the capitol police and the fear that was gripping the nation, given what was happening. he could have done more.

>> yeah, i think that's a very polite and mild way of putting it. he was watching it on tv. he was gripped and i think encouraged by what he saw, because he had been inciting this -- his daughter, ivanka trump, tweeted out shortly before they stormed the capitol that they were patriots, american patriots. she then had to delete the tweet. so mike pence is in the capitol, there are people with pence neck-shaped nooses storming that capitol. he is calling the president, to whom he has been more loyal than the history of loyalty that i can think of and they're not responding, for hours, they're not responding. i think it ought to be said in the context of what we were discussing earlier, this remains trump's party, and that the january 6th account that he has remains the official line. that mike pence hasn't spoken out.

he hasn't been down to mar-a-lago. but he hasn't spoken out against trump. in spite of the fact that trump endangered his life, in spite of the fact that after four years after almost sort of a parody of loyalty towards trump, that he's been left out to dry i think pence has got two books in the pipeline. he's got 2024 presidential aspirations. and the fact that pence thinks that speaking against trump would endanger those, not just the presidential aspirations, but perhaps his book sales, which are famously done in bulk on the right, that is a measure -- that's pence's measure of the fact that the party still buys trump's line on january the 6th and about this being a stolen election. that remains where the republican party is. >> so, mike pence in hiding or

refusing to say what's basic, that that needed to be stopped, as soon as possible by anybody who had the power to stop it, slow it down, contain it, make people safe. every republican who is with trump right now and refuses to speak up about that day is with a guy who didn't want that to stop. who could have done more. who had absolute power to try to pull that back and held on it. watched it on tv. let it play out. >> and celebrated it. >> celebrated it. >> if you listen to reports of people that were around him, he was gleeful by what he was seeing on the television and wanted to know why everybody around him was not, wanted to know why he shouldn't have stopped this attack.

and you talk about mike pence begging the national guard, urging with national guard to come, to dleer capitol, to protect the capitol. and yet mike pence has refused. mike pence has refused to actually stand up to donald trump. just like ted cruz now kowtows to donald trump every step of the way. despite the fact that donald trump insulted his wife, insulted his father -- >> it's the ultimate definition of a cult. >> accused his father, accused his father of being part of an assassination plot against jfk, and ted cruz continues to kowtow, to snivel. he's a sniveling -- he's a sniveling coward in front of donald trump, who attacked his wife and who attacked his father. here now we have mike pence

whose life was in danger. people were calling for his lynching. hang mike pence, hang mike pence. they had it all laid out for mike pence, but here's the thing. not only was his life in danger, his family's life was in danger. his wife's life was in danger. and his kids' life were in danger. and yet, mike pence still won't criticize donald trump. what else, really, do you need to know about a man? >> it's not a party. it's a republican cult. and mike pence is in it. ed luce, thank you so much. meanwhile, the pbs series frontline has teamed up with propublica for an investigation into the rise of extremism in america, which mostly -- which

most recently culminated in the january 6th capitol attack. here's a look at their documentary, "american insurrection." >> seemy says while brian james and the proud boys may have pushed hard to push into the mainstream, many still subscribe to extremist beliefs. >> this is a t-shirt in reference to mass slaughter of jewish during the holocaust, which is that 6 million isn't snuff. >> let's bring in the film's director, oscar-nominated, emmy-winning director, richard raleigh. give us some catastrophic perspective, because a lot of the violent radicalism in the 1960s came from the left. i remember reading kurt vonnegut's book, "evil genius," and i remember him talking about the weekly bombings from left-wing extremist groups.

at what point did that begin to term? at what point did the extremism move from the left side of the political spectrum to the right side of the political spectrum, when we talk about domestic attacks? >> well, i think, kathleen bleu has this wonderful book called bring the war home which charts out far-right movements in this past decade. after the vietnam war, the wave of returning soldiers kind of fed a small percentage of them fed the emergence of far-right militia movement. that for the first time, moved from -- far-right movements traditionally thought of themselves as vigilante movements, like the klan. they thought themselves as a supplementary force as a force to the police. but in the 80s and moving into the 90s, they refashioned themselves as revolutionary movements who wanted to overthrow the government. that's the first wave of militia movements that include tim mcveigh, the oklahoma city

bombing, the michigan militia, which at the time claimed to have 10,000 members. in the backlash from tim mcveigh and oklahoma city, the militia movement went quiet for a while, only to reemerge in the early days of the iraq war with groups like the oathkeepers and the 3 percenters. that picture kept kind of transforming and really this film, "american insurrection," which is the result, the culmination of years of work, an investigation with ac thompson of propublica and now the berkeley center for investigative reporter, it shows how the trump era which is bookended by charlottesville and now january 6th which serve as signposts for a way that it is pushed into the mainstream. >> i remember seeing, it was a comedy with dan aykroyd at some point in the late 1980s. and if i'm not mistaken, he somehow got swept into the michigan militia. i'm sure i'm absolutely battering the plot line here,

but it was the first time that i saw something in sort of mainstream popular culture that talked about these groups of men, whether they were in montana or michigan were forming these sort of post-apocalyptic-type groups. i'm curious, what was the initial motivation? i know when i ran for congress in '94, i heard a lot in '93 about property rights. i heard a lot about waco. i heard a lot about ruby ridge. i heard a lot about the evil of the atf. and i think that was a real -- that was something that really pushed that movement along. in fact, i think mcveigh's terrorist attack game on the anniversary of waco, but, again, let's just step, what moved us into the position where we are

today? >> yeah, that's a great question, this historical context is important and fascinating. there have been waves of far-right extremist violence in the united states going back all the way to reconstruction. and they -- they coincide -- they correlate directly with returning waves of soldiers from foreign wars. you know, that's not to say that the vast majority of american service members are not part of these movements, but that the disillusionment that came out of -- and the narrow disillusionment that came out of vietnam and later out of the first golf war were certainly an element here. but another thing you have to look at, this is michigan, late '80s, early '90s. it's absolute ground zero for deindustrialization. i grew up in rural michigan. this was a devastating time when we lost hundreds of thousands of factory jobs. and you have a massive vulnerable population that feels like it's just been left behind by the government. and that's the terrain in which the michigan militia, which there was a montana and michigan are the two places where it starts, that's where it

explodes. it's fascinating that it's also ground zero for trumpian populist politics. and you saw with the kidnapping plot against gretchen whitmer the reemergence of a militant militia movement in that same terrain responding to the same kinds of economic pressures at this moment. >> this is such an important point and i'm surprised i overlooked it. you go back to the early 1980s. late 1970s, early 1980s and i had friends living in michigan and their fathers and all of my michigan friends and their fathers worked for gm or ford and jobs starting to peel off, japan rising as an economic power, especially when it came to the automobile industry. people losing their jobs and extremism actually coming out of

that. i remember very sad and distressing stories of chinese immigrants being mistaken for japanese and taken out of bars and being beaten up. and so, eddie glaude, it's so much of what we've seen drive so much of politics rightward, not only here, but also in britain, with brexit and across europe. the de-industrialization, the industrial rot, which pushes people out of work and moves some of them to extremism. >> yeah, when we see the increasing precarety of everyday ordinary folks of trying to make ends meet and how this tends to push them to these extremist ideology. i find this very fascinating. one can tell a story about the kkk and its citizenship to the white citizens council.

how the violence can lead them. we think about the militia groups, only about 10% of those who were arrested were self-identified oathkeepers and members of the proud boys. and their effects on their relationship to everyday, ordinary folks who feel a shift in economic displacement. >> jonathan lemire is here and has a question -- >> oh, i'm so sorry. go ahead. >> that's fine. that question really cuts to the heart of this moment that we're seeing. it is one of the most striking features of january 6th, when you look at combing through the videos, looking at the tally of arrestees from the 6th, is that there are prominent groups there. there's a dozen proud boys, a

handful of militia members, oathkeepers, 3 percenters, members of other extremist groups we've been tracking for a while. but far more people who have no obvious ties to any explicitly extremist organization. so what you're seeing, and people who we've talked to from dhs and the fbi and elsewhere, they have kind of a simple framework that they use for understanding how radicalization happens. and they talk about different kind of pools of people. so a vulnerable population who's been radicalized by political forces and political actors who find that to be useful, which we have with trump, and then small groups of extremists who are recruiting them into violence. you can see proud boys breaking a window, leading a charge through the barricades, but the weight behind the thin edge of that wedge is a massive pool of unaffiliated individuals who can

see this now. if you have millions of americans who believe that the election was stolen, who believe they're living under an illegitimate government. that is a vast pool of people from which the bugla boys or the proud boys can try to dip into and recruit into their violent plans. >> jonathan lemire? >> richard, congrats on the piece. just piggybacking off of what you just said, we know that law enforcement has said that under former president trump's term, he sort of gave license and cover, we saw real rise in some of these hate groups and extremist groups. what are you seeing now in the early days of post-trump, trump january 6th. we know that law enforcement has been on high alert since january 6th, believing there would be still more security risks presented by groups like this to the current president and other

members of congress and so on. where do you see the future of these groups, now that trump is not quite so center stage, but not quite gone, and he has stirred up so much in his wake? >> that's a key question. it's useful to compare the backlash to charlottesville, i think, at the beginning of the trump era to the backlash after january 6th. after charlottesville, it took months for the fbi to make a handful of arrests. and they weren't inside these groups and it moved very slowly and it was a problem. in the immediate aftermath of the capitol, there were hundreds of arrests were made. the fbi is moving very quickly. we're seeing a language and an openness to discussing this that we haven't seen before. and that is promising in many ways. but it's also a very dangerous moment and a delicate moment. every single democratic presidential victory from clinton to obama has coincided with a rise in far-right militia

activity and extremist activity. and right now, you have not just a presidential victory, but like a sweep. and far-right mobilization in the streets that i have never seen in my lifetime and a former president still there claiming that this whole government is illegitimate. that's a very dangerous kind of cocktail of circumstances. the other thing is, you can look at this movement, two kind of strands of this movement. on the one hand are the violent insurrectionists, like the boogala boys who are trying to overthrow the government and have always been. but the other strand are like the proud boys, who saw themselves as far-right street vigilantes, the brown shirts of the trumpian age. those groups, you know, we were -- you know, we had teams on the ground in all of the million maga marches leading up

to january 6th. and you saw transformation happen in those groups. these guys used to march with blue lives matter, like thin blue line flags on their plate carriers and on january 6th, they took off their gang colors and participated in a rally that beat a police officer to death. so that transition from a vigilante supporting the state to being an insurrectionist trying to overthrow it is also a dangerous one. it's a fragile moment we're in. >> richard rawly, thank you so much. a fascinating conversation. frontline's new documentary, "american insurrection," airs tomorrow night on pbs. a must-watch for everybody. back now at 8:00 past top of the hour to the developing story out of minnesota where protests erupted last night after the police-involved shooting of a black man after a traffic

stopped. it happened in brooklyn center about ten miles north of minneapolis where tensions are already high amid the murder trial of former officer derek chauvin. family has identified the victim as 20-year-old dante wright. according to the brooklyn center police department, officers were attempting to make a traffic stop when just before 2:00 p.m., they say they noticed the driver had an outstanding warrant for his arrest. officers tried to take him into custody, but police say he got back into his vehicle. that's when one officer fired a weapon, hitting the driver. the vehicle then traveled several blocks before striking another vehicle. the driver died at the scene of the crash. brooklyn center officers wear body cameras and police department -- the police department said yesterday that it believes the body cameras and the dash cameras were on during the incident. in the hours after the shooting, hundreds of protesters gathered outside the brooklyn headquarters and clashed with

officers in riot gear. multiple rounds of tear gas were fired by law enforcement, in an effort to disperse the crowd. minnesota's department of public health said overnight that the national guard was being mobilized at the request of local authorities. it came amid reports of looting targeting the brooklyn center walmart and a nearby shopping mall. that deadly incident in minnesota comes as another recorded police encounter is reigniting calls for reform. u.s. army second lieutenant karem nazario filed a lawsuit this month claiming his rights were violated during an encounter with then windsor police officer joe gutierrez and officer daniel crocker. the lawsuit first obtained by "the washington post" says nazario is asking for at least $1 million in damages and for the court to rule his constitutional rights were

violated. nazari's lawsuit claims he was originally pulled over for not having a rear license plate, but video shows that he had a temporary plate in the rear window. this video was provided by the foreign for nazario. officer crocker wrote in his report that he believed nazario was eluding police and called it a high-risk traffic stop. take a look. >> get out of the car! >> what's going on? >> get out of the car now! >> what's going on? >> what's going on is you're fixing to ride the lightning, son. >> get out of the car! >> you received an order! obey it! >> i'm -- i'm honestly afraid to get out. >> yeah, you should be. get out. >> whoa! hold on, what's -- >> my dog's -- . >> get out of the car and get on the ground now or you're going

to get it again! >> i don't want to reach for my seat belt. >> take your seat belt off and get out of the car! >> nazario heard there saying he didn't want to reach for his seat belt, because he's afraid if he hid his hands, they might think he was trying to pull out a gun on them. the army lieutenant was eventually released out being charged. in an incident report from gutierrez, the officer wrote, they decided against charges because they didn't want the stop to affect nazario's military rank. really? nazario's lawyer says the lieutenant was threatened not to report the incident if he didn't want his career destroyed. virginia governor ralph northam responded in a statement yesterday saying, quote, the incident in windsor is disturbing and angered me and i'm directing the virginia state police to conduct an independent investigation. officials from windsor, virginia, said the officers failed to follow use of force policies and officer gutierrez has been fired. nbc news has reached out to both

officers involved for comment and has not heard back. and joe, i just want to sort of play this out a little bit. you see his has his hands out there. you and i have talked with this a lot. we've talked with our friends, eddie glaude and gene robinson about conversations they've had with their sons. keep your hands out, open, so police can see. always make sure you behave in a way that you don't appear to be a threat, because cops are going to think you're a threat. that's the conversation that black men have to have with their black sons and you see it play out in this video. this man is so afraid to hide his hands, because he knows what happens next. >> and lieutenant nazario, if you look at the entire video, you see that he was fearful for his life. >> fearful to take his seat belt off. >> and actually went to a well-lit area, drove to a well-lit area, because he feeder what might happen. and he showed his hands time and

again, he showed his hands. the police officers came amped up, screaming, pulling their guns. they lied, of course, in their report, saying that this was a felony stop. they lied and said he didn't have a license plate. it ended up he did have a temporary license plate in his new car. and continued screaming and yelling at him when it was obvious he was a lieutenant in the united states army. he had done nothing wrong. they had stopped him for no reason. and yet, continued to have their guns drawn on him, screaming, and threatening him, saying that he's going to quote, ride the lightning and saying he had every reason to be scared to get out of the car. wes moore, i know as a military

man, as a black man, as a human being, looking at this video start-to-finish, had to be sickening. what do we as a nation take from it, the same week, the same week we are having to look at a trial where americans are re-living again the scene of a black man lying on the pavement, a knee on his neck for better part of nine minutes, while his hands are cuffed behind him. all of this happening the same week. >> you know, it is absolutely infuriating looking at this video. and it's infuriating because, as you pointed out, it makes so many of us feel like liars. where if we -- you know, they call it a high-risk traffic

stop, but unfortunately in this country, every traffic stop is high risk. because he did -- >> if you're a black man. >> that's right. >> in you're a black man. because he did everything we've ever been asked to do in these kind of situations. where you realize in situations like that, your resume doesn't matter. your cb doesn't matter. the fact that you are in uniform doesn't matter. your vehicle doesn't matter. your calm demeanor doesn't matter. he calls them sir. it doesn't matter. you still end up in this situation. the fact -- you can pull over in a lighted area. it doesn't matter. and this kind of -- this conduct, it erodes at basic fairness. it erodes at public safety. it erodes on the idea that people feel like this society can be built for everybody. and so when we have -- when we watch this, an army lieutenant,

a person who the same way they did, put his hand on a bible and swore to protect the integrity and the safety and the future of this country, now watching how he is treated, despite doing everything that he was taught and being asked to do, it makes us feel like liars. and we have to -- we have to be able to unpackage that, that in this time, that this also cannot just be about, what are we doing to take care of these individual situations, when these individual situations continue to happen. that if we are not focusing on changing laws and changing policies and recruitment and retainment efforts. if we're not actually having a real conversation about race and policing. if we're not understanding we watch what's happening in minnesota right now and the national guard just got called in. here's the reality. the president of the united states has only had to call in

the national guard 12 times of our nation's history. 12 times. ten of them had to do with rice. one was because of a postal worker strike and looting after a hurricane. every other time, it had to do with race. so if we cannot combat this the and if we cannot understand this joint nature of what's happening between policing and race and why a video like this is so infuriating, so infuriating, then we're not going to be able to get to not just a root cause, but any form of a collective, better place. >> what do police officers need to do? what do police unions need to do? what do police commissioners need to do, because, west, we've heard time and again that crime has gone up across the country, since george floyd, since black

lives matter marches, because police officers are back on their heels. >> maryland has new laws. >> afraid they're going to be either arrest ordinary afraid that they can't carry out their jobs, because someone will turn on a camera and bad things will happen to them, happen to their careers. and their suggestion is, we just don't understand. and we don't. just like i don't understand what you went through defending this country in war. we don't understand what police officers -- good police officers go through day in and day out. we don't understand when as joe biden said, they put on the badge and leave their home at night, they may not come back home in the morning to see their families. how do we balance this. and what should law enforcement officers, leaders, unions commissioners, what should they do to step up here, to call out these few and we're going to

give the benefit of the doubt for this conversation only, what do day do call out these bad cops who are in the minority? >> i think what they need to do is actually be unafraid of calling out. the bad cops. they need to be unafraid about being able to take on the policies that are protecting bad cops. you know, i think what we saw nor minnesota with the murder trial for derek chauvin is actually pretty remarkable. when you saw law enforcement officers, law enforcement officers who were in an open stage saying that what derek chauvin did was not just illegal, it was inhumane. that was an important and watershed moment for people to pay attention to. mika, you're absolutely right. just this past weekend, maryland became the first state in the country, my home state, to

repeal this so-called law enforcement officer's bill of rights. this was an archaic law that was passed in the 1970s and never made adjustments. and now maryland is the first state. i was really happy of the governor's veto of led by senator bill bergson and senator carter and delegates like ct wilson and delegate stephanie smith, because they're fighting for reforms that were not just long overdue, but our community had been crying for. and so we're talking about changes when we say like, what are the changes that are incorporated in this bill. you know, changes that officers must wear body cameras. this shouldn't be under debate. in fact, officers have often been the ones who are pushing for this. this holds not just them accountable, but communities accountable. limiting no-knock warrants. requiring that every county has police accountability boards. saying that force against people

should be necessary and proportionate. these are not drastic, but they are necessary. because it's showing our community that you must be involved in a process of policing, but it's also showing policing that you must change in the way you were dealing with communities. >> here's what wes has been talking about in maryland. the democratic-led legislature of maryland on saturday passed an landmark police reform package hailed as a significant step in transforming the policing in the state. this was overriding governor larry hogan's vetoes. maryland lawmakers voted to limit police officer's use of force, restrict the use of no-knock warrants and repeal the nation's first bill of rights for law enforcement. that bill provided police protections including the removal of complaints after a

certain amount of time had passed and a five-day waiting period for officers who were accused of misconduct to speak to internal investigators. hogan had vetoed the measures on friday, saying their original intent has been overtaken by political agendas that do not serve the public safety needs of the citizens of maryland, according to "the new york times". >> eddie glaude, tell us, you look at what's happening in maryland. you look at what's happening in virginia, what's happening in minneapolis. and again, there continue to be these cross-currents. people saying that police officers, that policing needs to dramatically be reformed, but you have police unions seeming to push back every step of the way. how do we figure out a way to forge a middle path here? or do we forge a middle path? >> i think we have to be consistent with our values, right? that police officers are here to

serve and protect. and i think part of what we have to do, joe, is shift the frame of the debate. we have to shift the frame from a discourse of law and order to, i think, a conversation around safety and security. and what does it mean to police within the context of safety and security, as opposed to a context of law and order, where constitutionality is our immediate response. when we think about what happened in minnesota yesterday, it was a traffic stop, the young man, dante wright, got back in the car after an arrest warrant was found, and suddenly, we have the use of deadly force, in this instance, where no mention of a weapon, no mention of a threat on the police life and now katie wright has to bury her son. we have to shift the frame of the conversation from law and order to safety and security. and i think also, joe, one of the more infuriating aspects of what happened in virginia was the way in which americans, many of our fellows, said that if only the lieutenant had complied. and these are some of the same folks who will fight vigorously

for civil liberties. the same folk who will fight to keep their masks on. they are saying that this man should have submitted to the amped up police officers with guns pointed at them. look, their eyes blazing. that he should submit himself to this kind of treatment and humiliation. that's not consistent with our values. so i think what we have to do is -- our stated values. so what we have to do, i think, shift from this conversation of law and order, joe, to a broader conversation around safety and security. and extend that to every single american citizen in this country. and that's going to be a difficult conversation to have. >> and you're so right. the same people that are screaming that their constitutional rights are being violated because they have to wear a mask if they're in a tight, contained quarter are some of the same people here who are saying that this guy should

have joyously jumped out of the car after doing nothing wrong, driving legally, driving to a well-lit place, showing his hands at all times, and the police still refusing to de-escalate. still refusing to put their guns away and talk to him calmly, when they understand exactly what's happening. let's bring in palm beach state attorney, dave aaronberg. dave, i want to ask about the lawsuit that's going on in virginia. you saw what happened there. you saw a lieutenant of the united states army drive to a well-lit place, put his hands outside the window, talk calmly to the police officers. actually tried to de-escalate the situation. >> many, many times.

>> while they're still drawing guns on him and lying about a felony stop, when it ends up he did have a license plate a temporary license plate, because the car was new. i'm just curious, as a prosecutor, what's your takeaway from the scene? >> good morning, joe. the video is hard to watch. i'm glad there's an independent state police investigation into this rather than leaving it to an internal investigation by that police agency. i think the lawsuit is a strong one. it will probably end in a civil settlement. that's how a lot of these lawsuits end. the police officer in question, gutierrez, has already been fired. i don't think there'll be a criminal charge here. it's rare to see that. the burden of proof is a lot higher than the civil context. and law enforcement is given a lot of deference when they're acting in the course of their duties. the law enforcement would say that they were tailing this car at night with tinted windows and what they believe was without a

license plate and it took a minute and 40 seconds to pull over. but once they got to the gas station, which was well lit, they escalated the situation instead of de-escalating it. they drew their guns. they sprayed pepper spray in his eyes, shouted out terrible threats at lieutenant nazario. and all the while, it's important to know that they gave conflicting orders to the drivers. they told him to get out of the car. at the same time, they're telling him to show his hands outside the driver window. to me, the most telling part of all of this is when officer gutierrez told lieutenant nazario afterwards that, yeah, it's actually very common, it happens a lot that drivers will continue to drive rather than pull over right away, because they want to get to a well-lit space. well, if that's the case, what's the justification for their actions that night? and also, when they got to the bright lights of the gas station, why couldn't they see the temporary tag in the back window. so, yeah, i think the lawsuit is a strong one, but win or lose, it's important that we continue

to have this national conversation of race and policing. >> and also, he kept asking, why are you stopping me? they could have said, because you don't have a license plate. and he could have said, there's my temporary tag. it's called communication. instead of treating him like an animal. >> dave, you and i know so many police officers who in this same situation would have put their guns away after seeing what the situation was, gone up, calmly talked to him, and de-escalated the situation. and yet, we continue to see this too often around the country. and so the question is, if, if we hope and pray that these bad cops are a minority part of the police force. we're still not making progress.

in the same week that the george floyd situation is going on, it reminds me of what happened in atlanta, where a black man got shot barely jogging through a wendy's parking lot. shot in the back and killed. and you just sit here wondering, what is wrong with these people? what do they not understand? how do we drive these bad cops out of police forces before this happens? because it's the good cops whose reputations get sullied by these bad cops. >> joe, i think things in my mind are changing so much because in that case, you mentioned, in atlanta, the local da charged an officer with murder.

you didn't see that before. and you're seeing this national conversation of race and politician from the george floyd case and you see the serious charges about -- against derek chauvin. and the prosecution put on a really strong case and it's executive order national attention. i think moving forward, you need to have some legislation involving the mandatory use of body cameras. can you imagine where we would be without body camera footage today? also, i think you should have legislation about the state and federal level to limit the use of force. i think choke holds need to be banned. and you should have a national database of police misconduct to make sure that an officer like gutierrez doesn't go from agency to agency, now that he's been fired from his last agency. and also, you should have an independent review of these officer-involved shootings, because i know a lot of people think that when the local d.a.'s office gets involved, that since they work with police, that they are compromised. i think just to put everyone at ease, it's probably good to have independent state-wide investigations of each of these officer-involved deaths and that

way, we can bring more confidence to the public and continue to move forward. but the most important thing, perhaps, is to continue this national conversation we're having now. >> all right. dave aaronberg, thank you so much. we'll get you back this week. we want to continue talking about the chauvin trial. i do want to ask, though, wes, as we finish talking about this for this hour, do you look at what dave said, look at atlanta and he is right, that police officer was charged with murder in atlanta for that shooting in the wendy's parking lot. something that wouldn't usually happen. what eddie and you have brought up, i believe, about the chauvin trial, that police officers are actually going on the stand now, in public, condemning a fellow police officer, a bad cop being called out by good cops. i'm curious, is there some

reason to hope, as you look over the past year, even as three terrible tragedies continue, that we may be moving in a more productive direction? so as we move towards this, eddie said, safety security for all americans. >> there's reason to hope and there's reason to be hopeful. there's also reason to be skeptical. there's also reason to be -- to know that progress is complicated. and to also know that why is it that incremental progress seems to be the frame of the day? you know, i -- we were talking about the things that the officer in that case in virginia should have said, but here's the thing we know he did say. he told an army lieutenant, you should be scared.

he told an army lieutenant, you're fixing to ride the lightning. and you know, this is not -- this is not even a close call. >> sick. >> on this. so the thing that i think that we really want to see and the thing that gives me real sense of hope is the fact that we can have law enforcement who are taking accountability of their own people. you know, in the military, there's a slogan that we live by, this idea that we will not lie, cheat, steal, nor tolerate those that do. and that last part is arguably the most important part. that it's not just about your own individual actions, it's about the individual actions of the people next to you. and so i think the thing that can give us a real sense of hope and momentum is when we're watching that it's not just impacted populations that are demanding justice. that when we're watching law enforcement and those responsible for law enforcement who are at the front of the conversation saying we must

change. that's what people are waiting for and that's what people are anxious for. >> that's absolutely the case. wes moore, thank you very much for being on this morning. we want to turn now to the fight against the coronavirus. michigan governor gretchen whitmer is urging the white house for more vaccine doses. >> we are seeing a surge in michigan, despite the fact that we have some of the strongest policies in place, we've asked our state for a two-week pause. despite all of that, we are seeing a surge because of these variants. and that's precisely why we're really encouraging them to think about surging vaccines in the state of michigan. and i'm going to continue to fight for the people of michigan. >> right now, the state is the epicenter of the pandemic. second only to florida in cases of the uk variant. the white house says it's not prepared to increase vaccine supply, but is willing to send

additional personnel to help the state with the current surge in cases there. this as over 4.6 million people in the u.s. received a vaccine on saturday. >> oh, my gosh. >> the nation's highest one-day total. >> they're moving toward 5 million vaccines a day. >> that's incredible. >> that really is unbelievable. >> joining us now, former obama white house adviser for health policy and vice provost for global initiatives at the university of pennsylvania, dr. zeke emanuel. if we could talk about michigan and the decision to work on the case loads of actual coronavirus cases versus trying to up the vaccine supply. >> we believe as i understand it, according to the white house, there's a lot of supply and that's not the limit. it's getting the vaccine into arms. you can see, they did get 4.6

million. it's worth noting, about half of that goes to people who are getting their second doses and half of that to people who are getting their first doses. as a country, we're at about 30 to 35% of the country has gotten their first dose, and we goat 50 to 55% of percentages we're seeing in israel and britain. and i think we need more shots in arms and more shots in arms of people who haven't been vaccinated. >> so, zeke, right now, you look at different parts of the country, you look at texas and florida for the most part, it's wide open. i mean, they're opened up. you look, i've been talking about boston, a lot of boston and other parts of the northeast closed down, upstate new york. i saw a picture from a high school soccer game from a friend, which was just absolutely ridiculous. social distancing of like 30

yards between every parent in the stands. when do we start turning towards a more balanced approach? and i will tell you, i've got the reason i'm concerned about it is because so many mental health providers say, we understand covid is critical, but we've got over 100 million shots in arms. we've got, you know, 3 million, 4 million a day. we've got to start worrying about the mental healthcare crisis and can't be overcautious at this point about a fourth wave or a fifth wave or a sixth wave. we've got to start opening cities up. i'm curious what your thought is on this balancing act, as we're here in the middle of april. >> well, we certainly want to open up. and i think the point is, that is important. it's important for

socialization, for economics, for education of students. all of that's important. we also need to get more people vaccinated. we're about 33 to 35%. we're going along, but i think we're also seeing that we're probably not getting enough people into vaccine sites. you know, you're seeing a lot of places, "the new york times" had an article on thursday or friday about mississippi having empty vaccination sites. you're seeing states open up and allowing people from other states to come in and get vaccinated, because there's a lack of demand. you're having not enough people. we have a lot of people who are waiting for their first dose, who really want their first dose. and it's uneven around the country. in chicago, it's hard to get a dose, but outside of chicago, down in springfield, it's hard to get a dose. same thing in washington, d.c. so we have to get a lot more people that first dose so after about 10 to 14 days, they're 80%

immune, and that is a very important landmark. and we really -- i mean, i think joe, your question is, we have to get to about 45 to 50%, and then -- we're not at herd immunity at that level, but we can actually begin to feel much more confident and that we're really beginning to get our arms around this and we can return to normalcy. but we're not there yet. >> yeah, the ap's jonathan lemire has a question. jonathan? >> doctor, good to see you. you're right, it's a source of frustration for the biden white house, where they are asking for a surge of vaccines, yet there are unused vaccines sitting around in a number of states across the country. i wanted you to look a little further afield if you could. we are seeing signs of improvement in some other countries in the uk. today is lifting some of their lockdowns, but parts of europe are being battered by the virus

right now and there's a lot of global concern about brazil with a skyrocketing death rate and surging cases and real fears there of a growing number of variants. let me ask you, if you could give us a quick assessment of the state of the virus around the globe. and how worried should americans be if the virus ra rages elsewh, that more of that could end up here, perhaps producing more contagious variants, requiring boosters shots. how worried should we be at home, as well? >> that's an excellent question. let's make three points. first of all, britain is well ahead of the rest of europe with about 40 to 50% of their population vaccinated. and the rest of europe is down in the teens or early a 20%. they made a bet on the astrazeneca vaccine and the early delivery of other vaccines that's not been as prompt. the factory in belgium was being redone so the supply is low in

europe. they are being battered by this variant, the b117 and they don't have enough vaccines. as their vaccination rate begins come up, they should begin to do better. brazil is a huge worry. a huge worry. and it's breeding variants. the brazilian variant, p-1, has gone to canada you're seeing outbreaks in canada that are very severe, in places that they haven't had it, like british columbia. and that is because of the brazilian variant that is there. and we in the united states, the third point is that we in the united states, we're not going to be immune to those kind of variants. and we need to first have the cdc track the genetic sequencing of variants much more rigorously. one of the things we have nod had a national discussion about is that our testing has gone way down and our monitoring of variants has not gone as high as

it should. and so we're flying a little blind. and we need to have better information about those variants. the fourth point you suggest, jonathan is, look, when we're getting our vaccination rate under control, we need to begin sending our vaccines to hot spots around the globe to prevent the development of variants. to get people vaccinated in other countries. because that's where we're going to get a lot of -- we could get a lot of new variants and that they could come back to this country and reignite another surge. >> all right. dr. zeke emanuel, thank you very, very much for being on this morning. he's the author of the book, "which country has the world's best health care?" still ahead on "morning joe," a first of its kind meeting with top business leaders to take on voting rights. we'll talk to the main organizer of that meeting about what comes next. and coming up tomorrow on

"morning joe," former republican house speaker john boehner will be our guest right here on "morning joe." we'll be right back. here on "morning joe." we'll be right back. [sfx: thunder rumbles] [sfx: rainstorm] ♪♪ comfort in the extreme. ♪♪ the lincoln family of luxury suvs.

okay. >> right. who predicted that? by one. matsuyama is japan's first masters champion. >> ten years after debuting -- >> that's amazing. >> as an amateur at the masters, 2-year-old hideki matsuyama claims the ultimate prize at augusta. he takes his place in history as the first japanese man to win a major championship of the historic feat. he said, quote, hopefully i'll be a pioneer and many other japanese will follow. >> that's wonderful. >> certainly a wonderful moment,

especially this year and congratulations. what a great win. tom nichols, let me bring you in. i must admit, i was busy with baseball this weekend, both my sons and the red sox. i didn't get a chance to follow what insane things you tweeted during the weekly at-40 countdown with casey kasem. i'm wondering, did you perhaps say the beatles were a third-rate band with a fourth-rate temperament? what crimes against great music did you commit this past weekend? >> i think there was actually a lot of agreement that we got off to a slow start. there were people that forgot that james brown hit the top 40 with a song called "king heroin," which told you what kind of year 1972 was. and we actually found wide

agreement on "baby blue" by bad finger, when it popped up in the middle of a, you know, ocean of pretty awful early 1970s directs. so i think we all -- you know, we had a kind of come together weekend, as opposed to the weekend before it, where, you know, disco and soul and hard rock always divided us, but we came together as a nation over "bad finger." i'm happy to report that we achieved some national unity. >> well, i think at one point, charlie pierce even took out a trident last week. it was very bad. and he has warned people repeatedly, do not criticize karen captain terrify's voice. but we can all agree on "baby blue," i was thrilled at the end of "breaking bad," they brought that song back into the mainstream. mika, i know you don't like us talking baseball. you probably don't like us talking american top 40 from

1972 or any year, but that's going to continue. we're going to have -- like with roger in a few seconds, we'll have a regular segment. >> why don't we move roger to clubhouse? it's a lot of reasons we could discuss later. let's move on. more than a hundred corporate ceos, attorneys and experts came together this weekend to discuss next steps in fighting bills that restrict voting. it comes in response to georgia's controversial election law. and legislation like it making its way through statehouses across the country. ideas discussed included pulling donations, public statements, and support for legislation on the national level. the meeting was first reported by "the wall street journal." a wide variety of industries were represented, from financial and pharmaceutical to travel and tech. our next guest is the person who organized the meeting, senior associate dean for leadership studies and professor of

leadership practice at yale school of management, jeffrey a. sonnenfeld. and i just wonder, joe, if mr. sonnenfeld got the message from mitch mcconnell. that these guys need to just stay out of politics. >> ridiculous. jeffrey -- i'm going to talk to tom about this in one second. tom and i former republicans, we are quite amused by republicans claiming that private businesses don't have the right to run their businesses the way they want to, whether it's how they manage their platforms or whether they speak out against social injustices that they believe, whether for the right reason or because they believe it will affect their bottom line, they believe their stance they need to take as a company. explain. >> that's exactly right. it might seem like an odd segue to some to come at this after

the masters. that's a historic milestone and so is this. we had three or four ceos call in from augusta to join the event. you nailed it. what's different here is that these business leaders don't want to be defined by any political identity. it's almost like a gangly adolescence. they are cutting their own path. they don't go for the left. they don't go for the right. they are not isolationists. these aren't people that are protectionists. they hate the wedge issues that divide society. they don't want angry workforces and finger pointing communities and hostile shareholders. they are trying to run their businesses and having a society that has harmony is in their interest and our interest. in terms of their political identity, you are these days, that's what they are.

as mika said, they are not just concerned about georgia where there was confusion. the ces have figured it out. it's 80% better than the law was but 20% still bad. it's the other 47 states it can spread to. >> and, tom, again, the madness of so-called conservatives telling private businesses they can't do what private businesses think are in their bottom line, i think most insane example of what we have seen, the overreaction wall democrats are passing this landmark covid bill, republicans were whining about dr. seuss and what his family decided they were going to do. i hope 30 or 40 years from now my kids and grandkids -- all the stupid things i have done, i hope they hide them from sight. we all make mistakes. somehow the republicans are claiming that this is some

stalinist tactic because they decided to do what's best for their grandfather's legacy. they are looking at their bottom line. >> the bigger problem here, from the republican point of view is, i'm sorry, aren't the republicans the ones who say, let the market decide? >> right. >> don't get involved in private transactions. free transactions among free citizens freely chosen. it's amazing to me how suddenly people on the right have become allergic to things like boycotts because the right has its own boycott and cancel culture. what they really mean is, we are afraid of these things because we're afraid they might happen to us. we're okay when they are done to other people. it totally -- again, it shows how totally the republicans and what's left of a small conservative movement have abandoned their core principals about things like freedom,

individual choice, the markets. if american citizens freely organizing perhaps we might call it, i don't know, freedom of assembly, get together and decide that they are going to withhold their business from companies they feel support odious policies, that's the market in action. instead, what you have are republicans who these champions of individual liberty and small government saying almost like a stalinist planning system, you will buy your cars here, you will buy your airplane tickets here. you will not refuse to do business with this or that company. it's really authoritarian and makes a complete mockery out of decades and decades of republican principals about markets and free choice. >> i have a lot of problems with facebook. i have a lot of problems with

twitter. i think section 230 should be repealed or modified. josh hawley is saying that the government should step in and determine what their content looks like in these private companies. it's outrageous. eddie? >> professor, thank you for calling the meeting. i have this question. you represented it as these business leaders being centrists. this is happening against the backdrop of something happening globally. there's an argument that capitalism doesn't need liberalism, doesn't require the kind of restraints of democracy, as it were. is there a sense that these decisions on the part of the business leaders around voting restrictions, is this part of this broader debate about the relationship between capitalism and liberalism? or am i being too abstract? >> no. i thought you were going to be but you were more similar to

tom's position a moment ago than i thought. the marketplace of free ideas is what they are talking about here. there's a strong stand of defiance against what mitch mcconnell and others are saying. what happened to taxation without representation? the irony of the cancel culture, here you have the ceos of american, delta and united, they better have their own corporate jet, what are they going to do to get around, they come together to say we support the people like they supported ken frazier when he stood out to take an important moral stand. we support people having their own voices about you the importance of business leaders being a pillar of trust in american society. sadly, the media and public officials have fallen by the wayside. only the military is more respected in everybody's survey. they want to exercise that

voice. they believe a fair, honest society with representation is critical. we need a free democracy to make this work. >> jeffrey and tom, thank you both very much for your input this morning. we are back in 30 seconds with the latest out of another deadly police stop in minnesota. workos and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. ♪♪

good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it's monday, april 12th. protests erupted last night in minnesota after the police-involved shooting of a black man during a traffic stop. it happened in the city of brooklyn center, ten miles north of minneapolis, where tensions are already high amid the murder trial of former officer derek chauvin. family has identified the victim as 20-year-old donte wright. officers were attempting to make a traffic stop when just before 2:00 p.m., they say they noticed the driver had an outstanding warrant for his arrest. officers tried to take him into custody. police say he got back into his vehicle. that's when one officer fired a weapon hitting the driver. the vehicle traveled several blocks before striking another vehicle. the driver died at the scene of the crash.

brooklyn center officers wear body cameras. the police department said yesterday it believes the body cameras and dash cameras were on during this incident. in the hours after the shooting, hundreds of protesters gathered outside the brooklyn center police department headquarters and clashed with officers in riot gear. multiple rounds of tear gas were fired by law enforcement in an effort to disburse the crowd. minnesota's department of public health said the national guard was being mobilized at the request of local authorities. it came amid reports of looting, targeting the brooklyn center walmart and a nearby shopping mall. let's bring in the host of msnbc's "politics nation" and president of the national action network reverent sharpton. we have professor eddie glaud and former member of president obama's task force on 21st

century policing, cedric alexander. >> reverend sharpton, you have been following events on the ground closely in minneapolis. in touch with the family every day during the trial. give us your reaction to what happened yesterday and last night in minneapolis. >> well, what is very disturbing is that even as the nation watches the trial of derek chauvin, who is on trial for killing george floyd by putting his knee on the neck of 9 minutes and 29 seconds, we have in the suburbs of the same city, an unarmed man killed by police that they say they were seeking him because of a warrant. the immediate reaction i'm getting on the ground -- i talked to people there last night -- is that even if the young man was wrong or should

have been one that submitted to an arrest if a warrant was legitimate, it does not warrant his being killed, which is why there was outrage and protest last night. we are still looking for the facts. you must also remember, joe, the same weekend we see this video from virginia of a black man in army fatigues that was pepper sprayed because he wanted to drive where there was a lighted area to answer with the police. he had no warrant, did nothing wrong, was a member of the armed forces in army fatigue. they pepper sprayed him. when he said, i will get out of the car, i'm afraid, he said, you have reason to be. this is why law enforcement in this country must be addressed. it's a national problem from george floyd to what happened

yesterday. we have to come to terms with how we police the police. >> reverend, since you brought that up, let's bring that into the conversation. u.s. army second lieutenant nazario filed a lawsuit claiming his rights were violated during an encounter with then windsor, virginia, police officer joe gutierrez and daniel crocker. he is asking for at least $1 million in damages and for the court to rule his constitutional rights were violated. his lawsuit claimed he was originally pulled over for not having a rear license plate but video shows he had a temporary plate in the car window. we should note, the video was provided by his attorney. officer crocker believed he was alluding police and called it a high risk traffic stop.

wonder why. let's look. >> get out of the car! get out of the car now! >> what's going on? >> what's going on is you are fixing to ride the lightning, son. you received an order. obey it! >> i'm honestly afraid to get out. >> you should be! get out! >> hold on. what's -- hold on. get out of the car and get on the ground now! you are going to get it again! take your seat belt off and get out of the car! >> nazario heard he didn't want to reach for his seat belt because sometimes when somebody reaches in their car they think they are reaching for a gun. i don't know why they put this man in this position. the army lieutenant was

eventually released without being charged in an incident report from gutierrez, the officer wrote they decided against charges because they didn't want the stop to affect his military rank. >> it should affect the rank of the officer that behaved extraordinarily -- >> the lieutenant was threatened not to report the incident if he didn't want his career destroyed. virginia governor northam said the incident is disturbing and angered me. i am directing the virginia state police to conduct an independent investigation. officials from windsor, virginia, said the officers failed to follow use of force policies and officer gutierrez has been fired. nbc news reached out to both officers for comment but have not heard back. we watched this video in its entirety. it starts in the car with the officers before they opened the door and get out, they draw

their guns right away. we said to each other, we would be afraid to get out if two cops were pointing loaded guns at us screaming at the top of their lungs. this escalated because there was so much fear involved from the get go, fear that didn't need to be there. >> as a 6'4" white man -- >> they pepper sprayed him. >> from the south, if i were in the lieutenant's position and i had a police officer this out of control and i was showing my hands, showing my arms outside of the window and i stated that i was afraid to get out of the car, and for good reason, because this officer was so amped up, out of control crazy, if i were afraid, being in that

position, what about a black man who is seen time and again throughout his life, that black men especially are treated differently than other americans when it comes to being stopped in a car? eddie, he did everything correctly. he was fearful, for good reason. what did he do? he drove to a well-lit area. >> hopefully with cameras. >> hoping cameras were there. he wanted to make sure everybody saw everything that happened. they drew their guns on a guy -- on a lieutenant for god sakes, a lieutenant, serving our country, protecting us every day. a lieutenant in uniform who put his hands outside of the car and continued to be told to show his hands but get out of the car at the same time.

this was -- as mika was saying, this was absolutely offensive. >> a lieutenant who probably has mental health affects from something that happened in america rather than what happened when he was serving abroad. >> asking them to take care of his dog in the back seat who had obviously -- was probably choking on the pepper spray as well. this is disgusting. the governor and the police officers, people that lead the police officers in this area and this state, need to figure out how the hell this happened. this is sickening. especially, if they are this insensitive during the george floyd trial, then there really is little hope for this officer or any of these officers. >> right, joe. the interesting thing is this officer may very well -- he was fired. he may be hired within a month

or so at another police station. it's very difficult for black folk in this moment to give police officers the benefit of the doubt that they are going to treat us like human beings. here we have this moment where as soon as you pull into the lighted gas station, you see that he has a temporary tag in his window. the very reason for the stop is no longer obtained. you get out with your gun pointed. you end up in this situation where this lieutenant is on the ground weeping, asking, why are you treating me like this. i think it's important to connect this moment with what we saw last night. the death -- the murder at the end is the consequence of a form of policing that brings about the death. we have to look at why are -- joe, you never worry -- you tell me, if you ever have to worry about your child being killed by a police officer because of a

traffic stop. getting the call that donte wright's mother, father got, do you worry a police officer will kill your child because of an air freshener or that your husband will get stopped, threatened to be lit up with lightning, called a corporal, told to get on the ground, brought to tears. do you think you will experience that? the killing -- the death is the consequence of a form of policing that leads up to the confrontation. that's what we have to address. we always address it at the end. we're not getting to the process. what happens between the stop and the death that is actually precipitating the events? >> more ahead on this with cedric alexander. what is the biden plan for the immigration crisis? we are joined by one of the

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i understand you want to get to a well-lit area. i get that. when we follow you that long -- look at the climate this day against everybody, against us, against y'all. >> against everybody? cedric -- >> the climate is bad for them? >> throughout my adult life, i have always tried to give benefit of the doubt to police officers. i have said it on the show. you will never hear me on this show, when police officers, whether they are black, hispanic, white, asian-american, if they are kicking down doors, if they are in a dangerous situation and they make a

split-second mistake, well, we don't know what it's like unless we are in that position. but in this case, like the george floyd case, they knew what was going on. they had minute after minute after minute to correct their wrongs, and they just refused to do it. they continued to humiliate a lieutenant! a lieutenant who was serving their country! when they not only had the responsibility but you would assume had the training to draw back and calm down and understand they had made a terrible mistake! but it just went from bad to worse. they had to humiliate the black man, get him on the ground, shove the lieutenant on the ground until he started weeping.

it's disgusting. i want to know that you have been studying this for a long time, why do we keep seeing videos like this, even a year after george floyd's death? >> well, first of all, thank you for having me this morning. let me say, joe, i had a number of people call me here last night and very early this morning here in pensacola to discuss what they had witnessed through this video. i'm a 40-year police veteran. i'm retired. i spend time talking about reform and re-imagining policing and doing my part to try to do what we can do to help change this. this video that we are looking at, it is painfully egregious. for him to have gone through what he experienced, not just the fact that he is a soldier, which is really important, but the fact that he is a human being.

let me start by saying about this traffic stop, they called this in as a felony stop. that was not a felony stop, because you cannot see someone's tag displayed. you notice in your reporting, he lied about the type of stop that it was, what had occurred. then we see this ongoing humiliation, this ongoing just horrible treatment of an individual, a human being, who happens to be a military soldier. we see it in this time that this country is in where we are trying to fix the things that have been wrong since the inception of policing. this is not a new issue. it's just that we are able to catch it now on video. we are seeing it over and over and over again. american policing in this country is broken. it's going to have to be fixed. we cannot continue to move forward the way that we are doing now and expect somehow

miraculously overnight something is going to change. it's going to take a lot of legislation at the federal, state and local levels in order to change these behaviors, because even if you look at that traffic stop, tactically, if that was a felony stop, it was totally inaccurate, wrong. was not trained that way. it was not a felony stop to begin with. in addition to all of that, to humiliation, calling him out the way that they did, you are going to ride the lightning. no. you should have been fired the night that this occurred. and he should never be in policing again. quite frankly, those who hired him in that city from his elected official down to his police chief need to be held responsible. not just monetarily but held responsible politically for having that type of personality and individual as part of their

police ranks. it's not all about training. it's who we are hiring. we're not hiring the right people. >> that's right. coming up, how american towns are reinventing their future. a new documentary explores how small communities are writing their own stories. that conversation is just ahead on "morning joe." facing leaks takes strength. so here's to the strong, who trust in our performance and comfortable long-lasting protection. because your strength is supported by ours. depend. the only thing stronger than us, is you.

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the funeral for prince philip is set this coming weekend. yesterday, members of the royal family paid tribute to the late duke of edenborough. >> reporter: a day of church services. >> the duke may rest in peace and rise in glory. >> reporter: he passed peacefully. his daughter-in-law told churchgoers. it was right for him. it was so gentle. it was like somebody took him by

the hand and off he went. the end of an era. this weekend, the next generation of royals marking this moment, speaking for the queen. >> she described it as having left a huge void in her life. >> reporter: princess anne releasing a photo with her father. you know it's going to happen, but you are never really ready, she says. at windsor castle, preparations for a small but televised funeral next saturday. prince harry expected to attend. his wife too pregnant to travel. william and harry will meet for the first time since that explosive oprah interview. a former british prime minister calling on the brothers to end any friction between them. >> shared grief at the present time because of the death of their grandfather i think is an ideal opportunity. i hope very much it's possible to mend any rifts that may exist. >> reporter: both are expected

to walk behind prince philip's casket like they did for their mom. their grandmother continues to think of others, an unending sense of duty shared by her late husband. >> there were some really beautiful tributes to prince philip. "the new yorker" had several and many others did, as well. very moving. let's bring in roger bennett. we found out -- thank you for that touching music. remembering prince philip. roger, you know, we learned from "the new york times" this weekend that he was so bored with horse racing that he would

have a radio wired into his top hat. while the queen was cheering as horses raced by, he was listening to cricket and, obviously, "men in blazers." mika finds herself in the same position. she doesn't pretend anymore. she just leaves the set when we start talking football. >> one of these days mika will learn we have feelings, too. look at the big game of the weekend. second place manchester united, traveling to north london to face tottenham. you will love this.

14th goal of the season for manchester united like a gentleman boxer who demands to be punched in the face before they formally join the fight. the goalkeeper goes full on. united a winner. a first-time cross, cue the knee slide. you are tearing me apart. united win 3-1. they experience hope. turns out to be false hope. football can be like life. >> more pop culture references in there that than we can count. take us through some more action this weekend. >> america, young star scored twice for chelsea. >> so good.

>> from hershey, pennsylvania, scoring. desperate for a win. in the 91st minute, you will make me lose my mind. up in here. liverpool won. champions like manchester city. 91st minute, stunning winner. one of the greatest team the english game has seen is defeated. as close as we might come to watching ewoks win the battle if they had tattoos and man buns. six games to go. not a title race but it's sport that keeps us alive in terms of the meaning and narrative it provides. >> as you look at that, west ham

in fourth now. unbelievable. important, obviously, for who goes to europe next year. chelsea, one point behind liverpool three points behind that. it's a race to the end, especially when liverpool has the game in hand over totten ham. everton still in the fight. >> yes. your dreams, my nightmare. they will no doubt disappoint us this afternoon when they play. there's a terrible show on right after it. what is it? >> i don't know. >> it's "the men in blazers." >> yes, prince philip's favorite show. roger, thank you so much. it's always great having you here. we will be tuning in to that extraordinary show, which is actually proven in one study after another to reverse male pattern baldness.

to the mounting criticism the biden administration is facing over the handling of unaccompanied minors at the border as numbers just keep surging. "the new york times" reports, health and human services send an email. they were asking if employee s would be willing to take a four-month paid leave to care for children arriving at the border. that comes as new projections show the number of unaccompanied migrant children at the border sex pictured to rise exponentially. more than 20,000 children and teenagers are in custody. the system that is preparing for more children is already at 103% capacity. that is according to briefing materials from operation rtemus.

government projections obtained by "the new york times" show there could be more than 35,000 migrant children in government custody by june. let's bring in special assistant to the president on immigration for the domestic policy council, tyler moran. thank you for being with us. there are so many things that are happening that are causing this flood of unaccompanied minors to the border. a change in mexico's policy has made things more difficult. explain that. explain what the biden administration plans to do to manage this crisis in the coming months. >> the president came into office with a dysfunctional

immigration system. there's a lot of reasons why people are coming to our border. of course, there's been violence in the region for some time. we had two major hurricanes in honduras last november. in guatemala, there's been a drought that's forced formers to not be able to sell their crops. so we have economic drivers that are bringing people to our border. when the president stepped into office, he took action immediately. i would say that there's two ways that he is addressing the crisis. number one, we are trying to make sure we are processing kid kid. >> dale: -- kids there our country. we are addressing the region people are coming. this is important. if you just focus on our border, you are not addressing why people are actually coming to our border. the president has a blueprint. he is working with the vice president on this. one of the primary components to address the causes.

investing in the region. we have done that. we have sent millions of dollars of aid to the region to address the violence, the hurricanes, to tutoring kids to broken street lights. >> a congressman said it was important to humanely send many of the unaccompanied minors back to their home countries and to make sure that we have images of that so the message gets sent back that the borders are not open and they shouldn't send their children our way. what is the biden administration's thoughts on that suggestion? >> joe, the borders aren't open. we are following the law. the law says that when people

come to our border and they ask for protection, we can process them. not everybody is going to qualify. not everybody is going to stay. we are not a country that's going to turn kids back into the desert by themselves. we are not a country that's going to take parents away from their kids like the last administration. we can handle this. we can process people in a fair and humane way and have well-managed borders. if we can invest in the region to address the reasons why people are coming, if we can work with the region to set up humanitarian systems, refugee protection like anywhere else in the world, when there's a refugee crisis, and if we put more technology and infrastructure at our border, we will have a better functioning immigration system. >> mexico is limiting the number of families they will allow the united states to send back to mexico. will the biden administration, will the president pressure

mexico to return back to the policy they had previously? >> well, we are working with mexico and other governments in the region. we have secured agreements for them to put more troops on their own border. mexico, honduras and guatemala have agreed to do this. that not only will prevent traffickers and smugglers and cartels, but also to protect those children. >> jonathan lemere is here and has a question. >> good morning. you have been outlining some of the longer term solutions dealing with the root causes that are driving migrants to the border. i wanted to focus on some of the more immediate problems here, the challenges that the administration is facing. over 18,000 migrants crossed the border in march, officials say, which is a record number. lawmakers, democrat and republican alike, who have seen

some of the facilities where the minors are being held say they are an improvement over the facilities that the trump administration were using, but the conditions aren't that much better. what is being done right now to house those temporary housing for these migrants? are there new facility comesing online? what will their capacities be in light of what is obviously a huge influx number of minors? >> the numbers are up. but 60% of those were coming to our border, are being turned back because of the cdc order. children are 10% of those coming to the border. border patrol is no place for a child. we are trying to move them as quickly and safely as possible from border patrol into health and human services. then into the care of a parent or relative. we have licensed facilities that meet child welfare standards in the state.

unfortunately, the trump administration did not plan for this increase. they only had about 7,000 beds when you were adhering to covid protocols. career officials sounded the alarm. the trump administration didn't request a facility until january 15th. that's a number of weeks it takes to stand that up. we have that up. since we have come into office, the president put into place over 13,000 beds. we have leveraged almost 3,000 volunteers. we have increased the rate that we are moving the children out of border patrol into hhs custody, into the care of their parents while they pursue their asylum claims. >> we have victoria with us. she's a professor at the lyndon b. johnson school of public affairs at the university of texas. victoria has a question. >> i really appreciate and applaud the focus on the push

factors out from central america. that's a key piece of the long-term strategy. i think my attention now is going to the short to medium-term factors. in those is, what is the foreign policy engagement with mexico? mexico is such a key piece of this. at least from where i stand, it seems like the relationship between the biden administration and the mexican president is not where it should be given the cooperation needed. that's my first question. the second question is looking out to the medium term. we know title 42 is what was put in place to keep families from coming over because of public health concerns. thankfully -- i'm being optimistic here -- that public health concern that was firing red is going to be dissipating over the next couple of months. what happens when title 42 hangs

back and whole family units come over to the united states seeking asylum? what are we looking for in terms of that short to medium term? >> thank you so much. as you know, this is a complex problem. it's been around for a really long time. we are not going to fix things overnight. the president is taking this very, very seriously. as i said, we have secured an agreement from mexico to put troops on their own border. they can manage their own borders. also working to ensure they have the shelter systems to take care of families and children. in the immediate term, we are standing up systems to make sure that we can safely and efficiently process these children for asylum. we have also asked congress -- the president sent his budget request to congress last week. we need more asylum officers, more judges. it takes too long to process an asylum claim. we need to do that quickly but also fairly.

>> all right. thank you so much, special assistant to the president on immigration for the domestic policy council, tyler moran. we appreciate you being with us. hope to see you again soon. let's bring in a congressman from texas. thank you so much for being with us again. you obviously -- i'm sure you saw "the new york times" story yesterday. you heard miss moran -- you have seen the numbers continue to climb. what does the biden administration -- what does congress need to do to alleviate this crisis at the border, which, by the way, it's not seasonal? "the washington post" wrote, this happens every year at this time. that's not true. i hope they corrected that lie. the situation is getting worse. what do we do? >> it's not seasonal.

we do have the months of march, april, may, june that are peek months. this is not seasonal. one of the things we have to keep in mind is that we do have to look at the push factors and the pull factors. democrats, if you notice, usually talk about the push factors. republicans usually talk about the pull factors. you have to lock at both the push factors and pull factors and the long-term and the short-term goals that you want to do in the push factors are long term. i was here in the appropriations when the first big wave we saw in 2014 came. we were working and added $750 million for central america. the vice president was the lead point, joe biden was the lead point for president obama. we worked on long-term and short-term. long-term is investment. anybody that understands the

appropriations, let's look at it. we will appropriate the money at the end of the year. by the time we move on this, it will be next year. we have to look at the long term. but at the same time, we have to get those countries to do a lot more. in fact, i have talked to all the ambassadors. we got personal meetings this week from the ambassadors in central america to address and talk about some of the short-term issues. >> what about the changes that mexico has implemented, limiting the number of families that the united states can send to mexico to process? >> what mexico does has have an impact. i know this. i talk to the border patrol every day. i just got in late last night with some of my friends from the problem solvers. i have been there with democrats and republicans addressing this. certainly, it does have an impact what mexico does. if you don't mind, correcting something you asked miss moran

or told her, i support returning family units safely, like the obama administration did in 2015 and other years, not the kids. even though the 16 and 17-year-old kids make about at least 60% of all the unaccompanied kids. by the way, when anybody says, we're not going to turn kids into the desert, police, come on, nobody has talked about that. nobody has talked about you go and you work agreements with the country and safely put them in the hands of ngos and people that can take care of them, but i think it's just -- somebody says, we're going to put kids in the desert, nobody has ever talked about that. >> nobody is proposing that. as you say, we can return -- you say family units humanely back to the home country and send a message that that's exactly what's going to happen if family

units come up here. unless they are seeking refugee status. victoria has the next question. victoria? >> tyler moran was talking about the need to increase judges and asylum and refugee officers. i completely agree with this piece. but is there the funding to do that? is there really that piece? this is critical to it, but are there resources to do added morn judges than anybody else has. we need to add more asylum officers. the problem is the obama administration, trump administration and i don't know yet about the biden administration, is that they put judges in the inner cities where they release the migrants. i think we need to put the judges at the border. put them at the border. give them their day in court quickly but in a fair way so

they can present their case. if you look at 100 people that go before an immigration judge, 88% are going to be rejected. only 12% are going to be allowed. why are we allowing all the folks in and give them false hope when at the end of the day if they go before an immigration judge, only a small amount are going to be able to be given asylum? violence, crime, poverty, hurricanes, droughts, everything mentioned doesn't qualify you under the asylum law. why are we giving people asylum? why are we worried about the ki kids -- why are we not worried about the ki kids that make tha trips that are in the hands of criminals, criminals that abuse them, why are we not worried about and only worried about them once they are in the united

states? >> congressman, you bring up a great point. it's the providing of the false hope. if the united states is doing anything to provide that false hope, we have a responsibility to aggressively let them know that it is nothing but false hope unless, again, they are seeking refugee status and there's a reason to believe they will be provided that status. we have to go to break. quickly expand a little on that. >> well, if you have people coming in and then you have people who come in thinking they have the hope to stay here but an immigration judge is going to tell them no, why are we allowing them to come in? they are paying $6,000 to $8,000, probably more, but let's say $6,000 or $8,000 according to border patrol to criminals

because they have been told by them and they have been hearing that all you have to do is come into the u.s. border, face a little speed bump, get through and then after that you get to stay. in a way, that is working. but if you look at the law, it is false hope, because they are not allowed to stay under the asylum law. >> thank you so much, democratic congressman henry cuellar of texas. we appreciate you being here, especially because so much of your district is on the border. you know this issue better than most -- anybody else in congress. thanks so much. coming up next, on the ground in flyover country. we have a look at a new documentary that paints a picture of small town america. keep it right here on "morning joe."

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you're from this town in maine, they just assume you have never seen the bright lights of a big city. they will look at you and say, this is a cell phone. ever seen one of those before? just the belief by living out here we're not as metropolitan and savvy with what's going on in the world. i would argue, perhaps we know it better because we take the time to focus on it. and that makes us a whole lot more in the world than people believe. that's one stick i have, you go to a big city and find out someone's from a small town, they just assume you haven't been paying attention. >> that reminds me so much of my mom, first time from dalton, georgia, rome, georgia, first time she went north and was asked repeatedly in pennsylvania how long she had been wearing shoes. they were shocked she was wearing shoes.

that was a look at the new hbo documentary titled "our towns" based on the book of the same name written by our next guests, part of the executive producing team behind the film and they are my nominees for lives lived well for like the past 10, 15 years. deb, i want to start with this review. it's a beautiful review that really summarizes the project you all have been doing. the most eloquent character of the film when it comes to the camera and stars of the country that surveys community to community, coast to coast. there may not be a surfette of purple mountains in this good-news documentary but the majesty is everywhere. from california to rekons stuted sardine canneries in maine and the stars are everyday people. it sounds trite but you've seen it. you've been there.

it's the reality. tell us about this beautiful story. >> you're right, the majesty of this film is amazing, and it's all due to guinea jordan and steve asher, who are the filmmakers of our town and of the film. it was quite an experience for us, jim and me, to see the thousands, tens of thousands of words we wrote turned into these beautiful, visual expressions of places from maine to sioux falls, south dakota, to bend, oregon, we went to the desert and deep south in mississippi with 100 days of filming they managed to capture into this documentary with a feat of -- of miracle. >> i know. just absolutely beautiful. and, james, i remember after

2016 people said, hey, we've got to get out to middle america and see what we missed in the 2016 elections. so some reporters from new york city would drive to eastern pennsylvania, two hours away, and say got it, and drove back. explain the process that you and deb have been going through for the past decade. >> mainly we've traveled all over the country and the crucial thing was, number one, having the luxury of time. usually two weeks or so, the places we were going to write about. the other thing was not asking people about the subject most likely to divide them, mainly how they felt about national politics and where you're not going to learn anything more than you already know, but rather what engrosses them, the dramas they're part of, their school district, how they're managing their fisheries and farms for the long run. i'm so glad you used that opening clip from chris gardner, our friend from eastport, maine.

that sums up the spirit of the movie. oofs there's always of this richness and wisdom and sophistication in parts of the country portrayed just as objects happen elsewhere. it's a part of the country, face of america people don't usually get to see and we hope they will see it in this beautiful film. >> jonathan lemire as the next question. jonathan? >> congratulations on the film. i want to talk though about pivoting forward slightly, obviously, every part of this country from big city to small town has been touched by the coronavirus pandemic. and i was curious if you have talked to some of the people that you have gotten to know during this project, and how they fared and how their communities are holding up in terms of the impact of the virus, what sort of terms of cases but also how to reshape their life and what the vaccine rollout has been because there has been such concern about it not reaching the small towns as quickly as it needs to.

>> yeah, we've tried really hard throughout the last 15 months or so to keep in touch with the people we met and know in the small towns and also to make new friends. it's been harder, like everybody else, that's been over zoom or phone calls or emails. but we do have this set, so i would say the most important thing i learned on this is how some of the public institutions in the country have become so resilient in pivoting and turning and changing what they've done to new versions of that. i have to call out the libraries here, which have gone to a very important moment with what they do with the internet. we all -- when you live in new york or d.c., you think if there's a little blip in your service, that's terrible. but if you're some of the 25%, 30% of the people who don't have internet connections and go to

places like public libraries to get it, you know how bad that is when the libraries close. so they left their wi-fi going, made it available for people in the parking lots, sent volunteers around to hot spots to places so families could drive up with their kiz and do their schoolwork from their cars. examples of things like that are really a show of strength in how some of the public institutions are responding during this pandemic and making it better and probably not going back to all of the traditional ways but learning from what has happened. >> victoria has the next question. >> first off, thank you for this. as someone who grew up in rural southeast arizona, 28,000 folks, thank you for this portrait. and this documentary, this project focuses on what you find constant hyper polarization division. what are the notes that our

leaders on the coast and especially in d.c. can take with them and amplify out? >> so thank you very much for that question. one of the themes of the movie is the country has always been a rand of strife but there's always efforts to overcome that strife and bring people together. i guess what we would like to be able to note from this is how vast a source of tried and tested ideas and willing participants and new approaches to institutional life and community of life and culture life that exist in the 50 states of america that now have a chance to be applied nationally, including the central role of america becoming a more inclusive diverse version of itself, as has been the saga threw our centuries. >> the new houb documentary "our towns" is beautiful. it's important, and it debuts tomorrow on hbo and hbo max. james and deb fallows, thank you

so much for being with us again. we greatly, greatly appreciate it. and that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hi, there, i'm stephanie ruhle live at msnbc headquarters here in new york city. it is monday, april 12th, and here's what's happening now. as we speak, america is in a race against time. vaccine distribution hitting record levels. nearly 5 million on saturday alone. but at the same time dozens of states like michigan are still seeing a rise in cases. the governor there demanding more vaccines to handle this surge. the white house thus far says no. speaking of the white house today, president biden is kicking off talks with democrats and republicans over his giant infrastructure package. he's calling it a search for common ground. here's the thing, we have not seen any common ground so far, so what are