in and around minneapolis, a shock killing of another unarmed black man in a suburb just miles

from where george floyd died. dante wright shot dead in his car after a traffic stop for expired tags revealed he had a warrant out for his arrest. wright got back in his car as police tried to detain him, and that is when an officer opened fire. wright's mother said he called her moments before he was killed, saying he was pulled over because he had air fresheners hanging from his rearview mirror. police have just released the officer's body cam footage from that shooting. we are only going to play it once and we are going to freeze it at the point of the shooting but continue on with the audio, and i want to warn you, it is graphic and it is upsetting.

>> it is my belief that the officer had the intention to deploy their taser but instead shot mr. wright with a single bullet. this appears to me, from what i viewed and the officer's reaction and distress

immediately after, that this was an accidental discharge that resulted in a tragic death of mr. wright. >> that was chief tim gannon a moment ago after releasing that footage, that officer body cam footage. to reiterate, the police chief says he believes the officer reached for her taser and accidentally fired her gun. the mayor of brooklyn says she supports her firing her weapon, killing daunte wright, and as you can hear, there is anger in that room, demands for the firing happen just that moment. just from ten miles away, the state is releasing more national guard members after hundreds of protesters flooded the streets around the brooklyn center police department overnight. the air thick with smoke as police fired rubber bullets and chemical agents, some protesters throwing rocks, garbage and

water bottles at police, some smashing into businesses at a nearby mall. the national guard and minnesota state police moved in around midnight with riot gear and batons. schools in the area have moved back to remote learning amid worries of much more unrest. more on all of that in just a moment, but let us update you on what's been going on in the derek chauvin trial. back in that courtroom in minneapolis, the overnight events took center stage. just listen to what happened again this morning. >> yes, your honor, at this time i am requesting again sequestration of the jury in view of the incidents last night. as the court, i'm sure, is aware, an officer-involved shooting took place in the city of brooklyn center, minnesota. >> as day 11 of this trial, the defense wants the jury to be sequestered because of what happened last night. the judge quickly denies that,

but he does say he expects closing arguments to begin one week from today, and at that time the jury will be sequestered. on the stand was dr. jonathan rich, an expert cardiologist, who reviewed the evidence for the prosecution and said george floyd did not die from heart problems or drugs. the defense then tried to push back on his testimony without much success. when court resumes in just a few minutes, we are expecting to hear from george floyd's brother. with so much focus on george floyd's death, the prosecution nearing the end of its case by focusing on his life. there is so much to absorb on both of these stories as we await the testimony to resume. so joining me now is nbc news correspondent gabe gutierrez who is in minneapolis and nbc news correspondent megan fitzgerald who is in brooklyn center, a suburb of minneapolis. also with me former prosecutor and civil rights attorney david

henderson, former prosecutor and nbc legal analyst paul butler. everybody, welcome. i just got to talk about that news conference we just had a moment ago, and try to figure out, megan, what the reaction was to it. because i think we can say that that was the most extraordinary news conference any of us have ever seen, especially after one of these events with the police chief coming out almost immediately showing this body cam footage and then taking all of those questions not just from journalists but from activists as well. >> yeah. katy, extraordinary is hitting the nail on the head. police wanted to release that video, he wanted the community to see what happened. as you mentioned, this was an accidental shooting, he says. this is a community already on

edge and tensions just continue to rise. people frustrated, people are angry because another black man was killed at the hands of police. so this all happened yesterday from a traffic stop. and so the big question around town here is how does a traffic stop move into a person being shot and killed? so as soon as this incident happened yesterday, hundreds of people went to the neighborhood of where 20-year-old daunte wright died. that's when they were met by law enforcement officers in riot gear. we know rubber bullets were deployed. then those same protesters marched behind me here to the police department. and you can see still a very active scene where police officers are lining the department in riot gear, anticipating protesters' arrival. so what we're hearing from people is that they're just fed up. they want this to stop. and so they say they're not going to rest until there's actual change. so in playing that video, a lot of people say it just upset them

even more. and when they were met here yesterday, last night, when they came here to the department asking for answers, there was tear gas deployed here, rubber bullets deployed here, and protesters plan to come back here tonight until they get answers and until this situation stops. katy? >> paul, i want your reaction to this. this is a senior officer according to the police chief, and she said she did this on accident, that she intended to fire her taser. you could hear in the audio of that incident where she said, taser, taser, taser and i accidentally fired my gun. what is your reaction? >> taser, taser, taser over a traffic infraction and a misdemeanor warrant? that should not lead to the death of a person who is unarmed. so while it's appropriate that the body cam video was quickly

released, the press conference does not inspire confidence that this police investigation will be transparent and accountable. the chief seemed defensive and protective about the officer. he rather summarily concluded that she's basically exonerated because it was a mistake. it reminds us that the police cannot effectively police themselves, so in these cases there is always the need for an independent investigation. >> paul, we've seen incidents like this before. i've wondered about the training. i never thought it was a difference with those weapons. >> training is clearly an issue

that the officer confused her firearm with her taser. that's a choice that had fatal consequences. and, katy, it does not shield this officer from a criminal investigation. if this officer was negligent, which she apparently was at minimum, that could be the basis of a charge for manslaughter. >> mary, as we take this in, i just want your reaction. >> first of all, he was pulled over for having expired tags. that is a misdemeanor offense in minnesota, and as one of the reporters pointed out during the press conference, there has been a big delay in people getting their tags. many people have expired tags because of the pandemic. the second thing the police chief said was that there might have been a hanging object on the rearview mirror which we heard might have been an air

freshener. and he discovered he had a warrant. that was on a gun possession case, so not a felony. the other thing about it was, he was actually summoned to come into court, not a warrant, and we're not even sure he was aware he needed to come to court. he missed the appearance so there was a warrant. so why was she even using her taser on him at close range for any of these offenses? and that's one of the reasons people are so angry. the oert reason is last night the police used chemical irritants and rubber bullets on people who were trying to get information about what happened. part of the problem was a lack of transparency. they didn't release any information, and all the information that was coming out was coming from the family and the mother and that kind of thing. this press conference was a disaster.

because the police chief was defensive, and i could hear the voices of activists who were already there. this will not be a defense for this case or for george floyd as well. >> that was an extraordinary news conference. i've never seen anything like that. rarely do you have activists in the same room, rarely do they get as many questions as they do. rarely do you see a police chief put on his heels the way that he was. he exited the room at one point and then was -- i mean, he was almost coerced to come back in to answer more questions. mary, it just felt like -- again, nothing like i'd ever seen before. >> yeah. i was seeing tweets from local journalists that they were all locked out. so most of the local press did not even get into the room, and i don't know how this ended up that way, but that's how you ended up with a lot of activists but no press. one of the things, and you've

seen this with chief madera arridondo of minneapolis, he does not get defensive. that was clearly not the case here. he left at one point. the mayor asked him to come back to address some questions. i think when you're the police chief in that situation, you just have to understand that people are angry and you cannot be defensive and that you have to answer the questions if you can. he also lectured them about -- and kept referring to riots. at one point you heard an activist saying it wasn't a riot, and he said it was a riot. he was lecturing them about how peaceful protests were okay but anything beyond that was not. that, i can tell you, did not go over well with people in that room. it will not go over well now, either. so it was not handled well at all on a number of levels.

>> so this is not happening in a vacuum, this is happening just miles away from where george floyd died. just ten miles away from the trial of derek chauvin and this morning the defense brought up what happened last night and tried to use it as a reason to get the jury sequestered. i know you were in the courtroom today. walk me through what we've been seeing. >> well, katy, today was supposed to be a massive day in this trial. it was a day the prosecution was supposed to rest. we do expect that to possibly happen, but even before testimony began today, katy, there was that specter of what had happened the previous day and what had happened overnight with defense attorney eric nelson asking the judge to sequester the jury because of this incident, and one of the reasons he gave was one of the jurors actually lives in that

area, in brooklyn center, so it was his argument that there was a good chance that some of these jurors might see some of the media coverage and they might be intimidated, perhaps, to make a decision a certain way based on any fear of any security concerns. the judge came back and denied that motion. he said that that is not something that he wanted to do, that by sequestering them, it might change their mindset differently and think there is a security threat against them, so he decided against it. however, this is already going to be another emotional day just this afternoon. inside the courtroom, the jury very attentive to today's testimony. they were taking notes with the first witness, the cardiologist this morning, when he was speaking about in his professional opinion that george floyd did not die because of any underlying health condition or drugs, that he died because of the knee on his neck. and jurors were very attentive

here. they didn't get lost in the technical testimony today, katy. but we are expecting philonius floyd. he tells me he is looking forward to speaking to this jury, that he's not nervous, but he has been up since 1:00 a.m. this morning, katy. he did hear about the shooting that happened in brooklyn center, but he is just looking forward to speaking to the jury. the prosecution is looking to rest its case potentially later today. katy? >> paul, i know these are two separate events, what happened to george floyd and what happened last night. and i know that officially one is not supposed to affect the other. but is what happened last night, the shooting, or yesterday, is it going to affect this trial?

>> certainly all of the parties hope not. the judge will remind the jury not to read any newspapers or anything about the officer-involved shooting. they will be polled on whether they can continue to be object objective in this trial. sequestering a jury is a very unfriendly move. they would be stuck together for the remainder of the trial, which would be at least a week. if there is not an urgent, compelling reason to do it, judges avoid it. >> david, i want to talk a little about the testimony today. it looks like we're about to get back in session. i was just surprised the defense going after these expert witnesses, especially the one today. it seems like he's going up against a brick wall. he's trying to poke holes in

these expert witness testimonies and the testimony they're giving, but these are experts in their field, and it feels like he just -- it's david versus goliath here when he's trying to question them. >> katy, that's exactly right. these aren't simply experts in their field, these are experts that you dream of having whenever you go to court. normally you simply don't have the resources to have these types of experts in these types of trials, which is part of the reason they've been donating their time pro bono. it is becoming a cumulative at this point for the prosecution, but i think it is in a good way. you typically want to give the jury something good to think about before they go home for the weekend, before they go to lunch, before they go home at the end of any given day. given the medical examiner is the last witness they heard from on friday afternoon who gave some testimony that is good for the prosecution but also gave the defense some room to poke holes even though they didn't take great advantage of it, it was good to have such a compelling witness on this

morning who reemphasized, look, this happened because of derek chauvin's knee on george floyd's neck, it didn't happen because of underlying health issues or drug problems, and you're right, the defense keeps butting its head up against the brick wall trying to disprove that. >> one of the questions on these two different incidents. the judge denying sequestration. david, could that be used as a motion for appeal by the defense? >> can it be used as a motion for appeal? sure, but it's not a good grounds for it. typically these types of factors are viewed from what we call an abuse of discretion standard. appellate courts are going to give great leniency to the trial judge's point of view in determining whether or not sequestration or even a continuance in they decided to request that should be granted. i think part of what judge cahill is recognizing is issues of policing is going to stay in the news. they're not directly related to this trial, and there is no

reason to believe that this trial can't necessarily keep moving forward. i want to address something you asked earlier about the weight this has on the trial itself. there is a case going on inside the courtroom. there is also a case going on outside the courtroom. and having two events like this in such close proximity and in such close proximity in time, not just physical distance, definitely will play a role in the trial of american policing for the public. >> david henderson and mary moriarty, you guys are sticking around. gabe gutierrez and paul butler, thank you. let's listen to the questions about the car. >> i see nothing in the question and answer statement that mr. hall's statement had any amount of untrustiworthiness.

this defense does have a right to a complete defense, but since there are witnesses who can testify to what and have testified to what mr. floyd looked like at the time, i don't think that the rules of evidence must give way completely to any claim of the defensiveness necessary for a complete defense. i find it accordingly is not admissible. any questions about that ruling from the state or the defense? all right. we have other housekeeping things, but we'll handle those after the jury unless you want to take care of some of those now. we'll be done before 4:00, is that correct? why don't we deal with the housekeeping things afterwards? we'll be in recess until the jury is ready. >> they're going to go into recess for five minutes. they were just talking about morris hall.

i'd like to get more clarification on whether this means he will testify. my sense is it means he will not testify. he did not want to testify. they were talking about compelling him to do so. there is also another big story that kind of dumped into everything else we've been talking about. we're following windsor, virginia where a policeman is seen on body cam video spraying pepper stray on a black man in december has now been fired. sam brock has more on this story. >> reporter: katy, good afternoon. they were specifically focusing on the use of pepper spray as the reason why one of the officers was terminated. he details he feels his constitutional rights were violated and he was treated with

excessive force. he was stopped with officers pulling their weapons. a windsor police officer said in his report he spotted a vehicle with dark tinted windows and no license plate displayed that was eluding police. though a lawsuit says a paper license plate was visible in the rear window of the new car. >> how many occupants are in the vehicle? >> it's only myself. why are your weapons drawn? what's going on? >> reporter: the two officers were denying him exiting the suv while the defendant's cell phone is rolling. mr. lazario, who is black and latino, asks repeatedly why he was being detained. >> i serve my country and this is how i'm treated? >> one of the officers refers to make reference to the electric chair. and then this exchange. >> i'm honestly afraid to get out. >> you should be.

get out. >> reporter: officer joe gutierrez then pepper sprays lazario in the face. >> that's f-ed up. >> reporter: in a statement, the town went over the events. the officer has been terminated by police. now a civil suit regarding evaluation of constitutional rights. >> my client wants to keep those two officers from doing it to anyone else. >> lazario admits in his complaint that he didn't immediately pull over, driving nearly two minutes with his hazard lights on so he could stop at a well-lit gas station. in the report one of the responders writes, the driver was actively resisting. when i attempted to unlock and open the driver's door, he struck my hand away. >> even for a routine traffic stop, officers have the power and the discretion to order a driver out of the car. >> reporter: we reached out to

officer joe gutierrez overnight. so far nbc news has not heard back. it is also notable the governor of virginia, ralph northam, described this incident as disturbing and has ordered an independent investigation. katy, back to you. >> sam brock, thank you. i know we just watched some pretty horrific body cam video, but that was horrific as well. just to clarify, the judge in the murder trial for derek chauvin has ruled that the passenger, morris, will not be compelled to testify. he did not want to. again, this murder trial will resume shortly with more expert testimony, and a member of george floyd's family, a spark of life witness. we'll bring that to you live. and the president is meeting with lawmakers this afternoon to try to build bipartisan support around his $2 trillion infrastructure bill. who does the white house think it can work with, and what about

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sir, you're here to testify about your brother, george floyd, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and before you tell the jury about your brother, i'd like you to introduce yourself to the jury a little bit so they know something about you.

how old are you? >> 39. >> was george your older or younger brother? >> he was my oldest brother. >> are you married? >> yes, sir. >> and do you have children? >> yes, sir. >> how many children do you have? >> two. >> sir, what state do you live in? >> houston, texas. >> i'd like you to tell the jury a little bit about your brother, george floyd. first, can you tell the jury where and when he was born? >> he was born in fairview, north carolina, but he left at a young age. we moved to houston, texas, and i have two other sisters that are older than us, jaja floyd, latonya floyd, george floyd, and

i'm philonise floyd, and my mama's baby boy also. >> he was born in 1974? >> yes, sir. >> you said the family left shortly after he was born, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and you grew up in houston together? >> we grew up in houston. >> who are your parents? >> lacinia floyd and his father was george floyd sr. >> and lacinia, is that your mother? >> that's my mother, but they called her miss sissy. >> who called her miss sissy? >> everybody called her miss sissy. we just called her mom, but anyone who knew her called her that, and that was it. they had to be about 50 years of age, but everybody younger than

that called her mom because she was a mom to so many in the community. >> what community? >> that was in the third ward. i grew up in the housing authority projects. it was low-income poverty. we stayed with each other all the time, me and george. we grew up together playing video games a lot. his favorite game was on nintendo. we played double dribble and we played techno bowl. i finally beat him in a game and i was so happy with that. and he would say, come on, let's play again. i would say, no, i got to do my chores now, let me do my chores. but george, also, he used to make the best banana mayonnaise sandwiches and he used to make syrup sandwiches. because george couldn't cook.

he couldn't boil water. and also if you all were there in our house, you would see george had lines on the wall because he would always measure his height, trying to see how tallest because he wanted to be taller all the time because he loved sports, so he always wanted to be the best. >> let me interrupt you for a moment. i appreciate you sharing that with us. i'd like to show the witness what's been marked for identification as exhibit 284. do you recognize the picture in 284? >> yes, sir. >> is that a picture of your mother and george when he was younger? >> yes, sir. >> i offer exhibit 284. >> 284 is received. >> permission to publish? sir, would you please describe this photo and what you know

about it? >> that's my mother. she's no longer with us right now, but that's my oldest brother george. i miss both of them. i was married. on may 24th i got married, and my brother was killed may 25th. and my mom died on may 30th. it's like a bittersweet moment because they had each other. >> i want to ask you some questions about your mom's passing a little bit. if you need a moment, take a minute, and just let me know when you're ready. >> i'm ready.

>> going back to growing up in your home, can you tell me what role your oldest brother had in that household? >> he was always the leader of the household. he always made sure we had our clothes for school. he made sure that we all were going to be to school on time. like i told you, george couldn't cook but he'll make sure you have a snack or something in the morning. he was one of those people in the community that when they had church outside, people would attend church just because he was there. nobody would go out there until they seen him. he just was like a person that everybody loved around the community. he just knew how to make people feel better. >> sir, you indicated -- first, are you aware of where george

floyd went to school? >> he went to school at black sheep elementary. from black sheep it was ryan middle school and from ryan it was high school. he excelled in football and basketball. he received a scholarship to attend south florida college, and from there he played basketball there and he transferred to texas a&m kingsville where he played football. >> i'd like to show the witness exhibit 285 for identification. do you recognize that is shown in exhibit 285? >> yes, sir. >> is that a picture of your brother when he was at the jackie hill high school in houston? >> permission to enter exhibit

285. >> exhibit 285 is received. >> and permission to publish. about how old was george in this picture? >> 16 or 17 at that time. >> you talked about playing basketball. if i can show exhibit 287 to the witness. 87, 287. thank you. showing you what's been marked for identification as exhibit 287, do you recognize this photo? >> yes, sir. >> is there a picture of your brother in this photo? >> he's number 5, south florida, all the way in the left-hand corner. >> i'm going to offer exhibit 287. >> 287 is received. >> and permission to publish. you indicated that your brother was number 5 on the far left? >> yes, sir. >> south florida, was that a community college? >> south florida was a community

college. i'm looking -- i know there is a whole bunch of the ball players because i met a lot of them coming up. >> did george floyd maintain his level of fitness and level of basketball throughout his life? >> yes, sir, he loved to work out. he loved playing basketball. people -- he loved teaching people the game of basketball. that's, to me, where i really learned how to play from him, because he guided a lot of guys on the court and showed them what they need to do to be better. >> when he would talk about playing basketball, would he use any particular term or phrase? >> oh, he said, hey, man, let's go hooping, and we would always say, come on, let's go. we always went hooping, and you have to hoop every day because if you don't go and shoot a whole bunch of shots, like 50 to 100 shots a day, my brother

would say you'll never be able to compete. hooping was big, because magic -- you had to watch the stars. we watched michael, we watched magic, we watched everybody every day. >> if you can take that down. you indicated that george floyd was also interested in football, had a passion for football, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> would he play chess with you? >> he would play catch with us. i always thought it was funny how my brother could never throw, but he would never throw it at me. he would throw it at an angle where i had to go chase it or jump for it or dive for it. one day i said, man, i see why you play tight end because you can't throw at all. and he said, i don't want to throw the ball to you, because if i throw the ball to you, you would never understand that you have to go get the ball. the ball should never come to you, you should always tell yourself, i have to go get the

football. >> was your brother a father? >> yes, sir. >> i'm going to show you what's been marked for identification as exhibit 290. do you recognize what's shown in exhibit 290? >> yes, sir. >> is that a picture of your brother with his daughter? >> yes, sir. >> offer exhibit 290. >> no objection. 290 is received. >> and permission to publish. what's his daughter's name? >> gianna. >> how old is she now? >> seven. >> sir, for the jury, can you describe george floyd's relationship with his mother? >> oh, it was one of a kind. george, he would always be up on my mom. he was a big mama's boy. i cry a lot, but george, he

loved his mom. he would always just be up on her. every mother loves all of her kids, but it was so unique how they were with each other. he would just lay up onto her in the fetus position like he was still in the womb. i would see him every day, and i would say, perry -- because we called him perry instead of george -- and he would always say, let me kiss mama before i come over there. being around him, he showed us, like, how to treat our mom and how to respect our mom. he just -- he loved her so dearly, and when george -- he had found out that my mom was passing because she had to stay with us for hospice, and he was talking to her over the phone,

but she perished before he even came down here, so that right there, it hurt him a lot, and when we went to the funeral, george just sat there at the casket over and over again. he would just say, mama, mama over and over again. i didn't know what to tell him because i was in pain, too. we all were hurting. and he was just kissing her and just kissing her. he didn't want to leave the casket. everybody was like, come on, come on, it's going to be okay. but it was just difficult because i don't know who can take that when you watch your mother, somebody who loved and cherished you and nourished you for your entire life, and being they have to leave you.

we all have to go through it but it's difficult, and george, he was just in pain the entire time. >> sir, you indicated your mother passed away may 30. that was 2018, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and you described seeing your brother george at the funeral, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> was there around the time of your mother's passing the last time you saw your brother george floyd in personal life? >> yes, sir. >> did you maintain contact with him on the phone, through texts and whatnot after that? >> we phoned, we texted. we would call each other. we would talk a lot of times early in the morning because i was a truck driver. so he would always be up talking to me and getting pointers on how to back up, how to do this,

shifting gears, different things like that. i had great teachers, so i would also just explain to him what he needed to do at that level to get to that next tier. that's what he would do, he would just listen, and he became a student. i always had to ask him for advice because it was my big brother. >> sir, and this is a yes or no question. were you informed that your brother george floyd died on may 26, 2020? >> yes, sir. >> thank you very much. i have no further questions, your honor. >> i have no questions of this witness. >> thank you. >> thank you, sir. thank you for being here.

>> let me make sure he's here, your honor. is he here? your honor, the state calls seth stotin. do you swear or affirm by penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth and nothing but the truth? >> i do.

>> have a seat, please. >> thank you. >> if you could remove your mask if you're comfortable doing so. let's begin by having you state your full name, spelling each of your names. >> my name is seth wayne sotin, s-e-t-h, w-a-y-n-ew-a-y-n--t-o-. >> good morning, sir. how are you employed? >> i am a professor at the school of law. >> how long have you been a law professor? >> i've been there for seven years now, almost seven years, and two years prior to that in a teaching relationship preparing to be a professor. >> do you teach academic courses

at the south carolina law school? >> i do. >> what courses do you teach? >> i teach criminal law and police law policy. >> do you also conduct any scholarly research? >> i do, yes. >> what scholarly research do you conduct? >> i study the regulation of policing and multiple aspects of the regulation of policing. >> i would like you to please describe your educational background to the jury so they can understand how you come to be a law professor at the university of south carolina. first, where did you receive your undergraduate education? >> florida state university in tallahassee. >> what was your degree? >> english with a focus on literature. >> and before we get into your law career, did you take -- have you always been in academia? >> no, i have not. >> what was your prior career before becoming involved in academia? >> i interrupted my undergraduate education to take a job as a police officer with the tallahassee police

department and then later as an investigator with the florida department of education's office of inspector general. >> i would like you to please describe for the jury your experience as an officer with the tallahassee police department. first, what year did you join the department? >> i applied to the department in 2000 and was employed in early 2001. >> can you describe for the jury the training process that you went through to become a police officer in the state of florida? >> sure. so florida has an academy requirement. i went to a regional police academy, which means not an academy run by my particular agency, but an academy that trains a number of different agencies in north florida. after finishing the approximately five and a half months or so of academy training, i went through additional pre-service training

at my agency, about a month of classroom training, additional sort of lecture-style training and hands-on training. then went through four months, three and a half months of the field training program. >> and after you completed your field training, you received an assignment as a law enforcement officer in tallahassee. >> yes, i did. >> i would like you to please describe for the jury kind of the high level different assignments you had as a police officer with that department. >> i was there full-time for just under five years. the entire time i was there, i worked on patrol. that was our uniformed capacity. officers who are responding to calls of service or pulling over vehicles and the like. i had some additional assignments as a patrol officer. i spent about two years on our special response team, i taught community self-defense classes, child molestation prevention classes and the like.

>> as a patrol officer, were you ever in a situation where you had to use force on an individual? >> yes. >> did you ever have to arrest somebody? >> yes. >> handcuff a reluctant subject? >> yes. >> something that you would routinely do as a police officer? >> yes. >> did you respond to calls of service and write police reports? >> yes, lots of calls for service and lots of reports. >> after you left the tallahassee police department, you took a job with -- was it the department of education? >> yes, florida's department of education as an investigator in the inspector general's office. >> please describe your duties there. >> i was charged with investigating waste, fraud and abuse within the department of education.

fraud allegations and criminal acts primarily, although there were some other fraud and criminal cases i was involved in. >> when did you decide to go to law school and enter law school? >> having put my undergraduate education on hold as an investigator, i now had a regular day job. so i was able to finish that degree. it took me ten years to get a four-year degree. as i was coming up on the end of that degree, we made the decision to go to law school to continue to expand career options. >> where did you attend law school? >> the university of virginia. >> and what year did you graduate from law school? >> 2011. >> and at what point did you enter academia, generally? >> i clerked for a year after law school, i worked for a federal judge for the year after law school. i began my academic career after

that. >> and when did you build on your experience as a former police officer? >> as i began law school, i had no intention of becoming an academic. i had some outstanding professors, and between their influence and my interest in studying policing from an academic and legal perspective, i realized there was a little bit of a niche where i could draw on some of the information i had from firsthand experience to either ask questions that other academics maybe had not asked or to find answers in different places. >> and is that where you focused your research? >> yes. >> have you authored any scholarly publications? >> yes. >> what sort of publications

have you authored? >> i have written law review articles, which is the type of academic journal that legal scholars publish in. i've written a number of different articles on a range of topics. officers and off-duty employment, the way the legal system regulates police officers and affect police officer behaviors. >> have you authors chapters of books? >> yes. >> what books? >> i think my most recent publication was in critical issues in policing, a series of essays on policing. that chapter is on the regulation of police violence. i've authored book chapters on

police misconduct, and i'm authoring another one on use of force right now. >> you published a book recently, is that right, you co-authored a book, is that right? >> yes. >> what is the title? >> evaluating police uses of force. >> and you have a copy with you here. you co-authored that book, is that right? >> yes, that is correct. >> sir, are you a member of any professional organizations? >> i am. >> what professional organizations are you a member of? >> i'm an associate member of the virginia bar, a non-practicing member of the bar association, a member of the international association of chiefs of police. i serve as an adviser to the

institute of law on policing. i'm a liaison to the american bar association's working group on trust in the criminal justice system. there are a couple of other ones, i don't remember all of them off-hand. >> do you provide consultation to law enforcement agencies in conducting use of force reviews? >> not through the professional organizations, but i do consult or do research with police agencies, yes. >> does that include providing educational instruction consultation and specific use of force reviews? >> yes. >> what agencies have you done that work with? >> i've done training and presentation to officers in the richmond county sheriff's

office, the largest law enforcement agency in south carolina. i sit in what are called command review boards, which can involve assessing use of force in that context. i've done presentations and training at the federal law enforcement training center, which is not an agency, per se, but the audience had representatives of a number of different agencies. i've provided training to senior staff, to the command staff of the kansas city, missouri, police department. i've -- all of those are sort of formal. there might be a couple of others. as well as a range of informal consultations and discussions. >> are you a frequent speaker or lecturer on policing and uses of force throughout the country? >> yes. although in the past year, most

of those have been presentations from my home via zoom. but, yes. >> what organizations do you present to? >> i've presented well over 100 times at this point to organizations that include the american judges' association, the conference of chief justices, judicial conferences in a number of states. prosecution or defense conferences, security conference in mexico city. a prosecution and defense combined conference in canada. most recently, i've presented at several law reviews and symposiums, one hosted by the university of -- sorry, by loyola university in chicago. that was this past week, by the journal of criminal law and criminology. the university of

wisconsin-plattsville. that was this past week. >> have you previously been retained as an expert witness? >> yes. >> how often? >> i've been retained around 60 times at this point. >> have you testify as an expert witness before, in a deposition? >> yes. >> approximately how many times? >> at deposition, i think over a dozen. pretty easily at this point, i believe. >> in those depositions, have you testified as an expert witness in the use of force area? >> yes, tactics, use of force, police procedure, yes. >> have you testified at a trial in use of force? >> yes, including tactics and use of force, yes. >> what courts have you testified in? >> there was a federal court in north carolina, a federal court

in south carolina, criminal court in georgia, i think that's it for trial testimony. as you know, most cases don't actually make it to a trial. >> so this witness is an expert in use of force, nationally. he's recognized as such. he could potentially be the last witness the prosecution calls before it rests its case. an interesting decision given that they just had the testimony from george floyd's brother, a spark of life testimony that was very emotional. as you saw, the defense decided not to cross-examine him.

let's go back in. sidebar is over. >> and you were talking about depositions, those were civil cases, is that right? >> yes. that's correct. >> all right. you've been retained in this matter to provide testimony regarding the use of force that occurred on may 25th, 2020 in the matter of the death of george floyd. is that correct? >> yes, i have. >> and having been retained, you charge a fee for your services? >> for my time and review, yes. >> what is your fee? >> $295 an hour in this case. >> and you receive a different rate for trial days? >> i have an eight-hour minimum on days i'm expected to testify,

yes. >> and to date, how much have you been compensated based on your work in this case? >> i would have to look at my records to see what actual compensation has been. in the area of maybe $24,000 or $25,000 received. >> how many hours would you estimate that you've put in to preparing for this matter? >> including both compensated and uncompensated hours, i'm probably in the -- this might be overestimating slightly, but in the 130 to 140 hour range. >> in your experience as an expert witness, have you always reached a conclusion favorable to the party that hires you? >> no. >> why is that?