doing all this fun stuff like looking at mars, you can always find us online on social media, tell me your favorite planet. and you can always listen to "the beat" or any msnbc program on the tune in app on any device. check that out if you're interested. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. good evening, everyone. we be"the reidout" with the country bracing for a decision trom12 jurors deciding the fate of derek chauvin. protests have begun tonight. something we could see every night until the verdict is reached over the killing of george floyd. and while we don't know how long it will take for the now sequestered jury to reach the verdict, the decision by these 12 people will almost certainly reverberate well beyond the confines of the courtroom. the question at stake is simple. will yet another death of a black person at the hands of police be overlooked?

will george floyd's name be placed alongside michael brown, eric garner, philando castio and so many others where the officers involved in the killings were not held accountable? that doesn't cover the countless others who never even had their day in court to try to hold their killers accountable. or will a family in this country finally see some justice against someone who took an oath to protect and serve. will there be some accountability for what can only be described as continued and growingdemic of police violence in america. before the jury began deliberated, the prosecution and defense made their closing arguments. the prosecution told jurors they nieve to believe their own eyes and their common sense. >> the knee to the neck, the knee to the back, twisting his fingers, holding his legs for 9 minutes and 29 seconds. the defendant's weight on him. the lungs in his chest unable to

expand because there wasn't enough room to breathe. george floyd tried. this wasn't policing. this was murder. >> the prosecution also described chauvin ignoring floyd's final cries for help. and how chauvin may have been affected by the crowd, but not the way that the defense had portrayed. >> the defendant facing down that crowd, they were pointing cameras at him. recording him. telling him what to do. challenging his authority. his ego, his pride, not the kind of pride that makes you do better, be better. the kind of ego-based pride that the defendant was not going to be told what to do. he was not going to let these bystanders tell him what to do. he was going to do what he wanted. how he wanted, for as long as he wanted. >> remember, at one point,

eyewitness charles mcmillan told floyd, you can't win. and floyd cried out, i'm not trying to win. but as the prosecution pointed out, chauvin was trying to win. for its part, the defense rested its closing argument telling the jury that they didn't actually see what was clear on all of those videos. that while police officers can make mistakes, the blame for george floyd's death, at least for the defense, rests with george floyd himself. >> you have to be convinced that the defendant's actions caused the death of mr. floyd. actions that happened before mr. floyd was arrested, that had nothing to do with officer chauvin's activities, are not the natural consequences of the defendant's actions. the drug ingestion, the bad heart, the diseased heart, the

hypertension. all of these things existed before mr. chauvin arrived. >> in its rebuttal, the prosecution made this final statement to the jury. >> you were told, for example, that mr. floyd died, that mr. floyd died because his heart was too big. you heard that testimony. and now having seen all the evidence, having heard all the evidence, you know the truth. and the truth of the matter is that the reason george floyd is dead is because mr. chauvin's heart was too small. >> joining me now from minneapolis is nbc news correspondent megan fitzgerald. i assume this has been a tense day in minneapolis. give us a sense of what you have seen and heard. >> reporter: joy, absolutely. in fact, shortly after the jury got this trial, shortly after closing arguments, a crowd of

protesters started forming. where we are right now is just outside of the courthouse. hundreds of people coming out from all over this community, but also all over the country. we have talked to people who flew in because it was important for them to be here, they said, to call for justice for george floyd. we're asking people, we're talking to people, what does justice look like? certainly, what they're telling us is not only do they want derek chauvin to be sentenced, to be found guilty, but they're also calling for systemic changes. there's a sense of tiredness, people who are just tired and exhausted because they find themselves in the same situation, here, obviously, in minneapolis for george floyd, but just last week, it was daunte wright in brooklyn center, minneapolis, or minnesota, i was actually there when they released the video of the officer shooting daunte wright. and a man crying out that it was murder. and proceeding to say, it keeps

happening. this man saying they continue to keep killing us. so joy, what we're seeing is that there's this collective trauma that's happening not just here in minneapolis, in minnesota, but all across the country. people calling for change. earlier today, joy, we were talking to a group called principles for good trouble. so this is a group of principals, assistant principals from all over the twin cities who have come together, and they realize their role is critical, and so what they're doing is they're here protesting, but they're also trying to educate students within their school, because they understand this is deep. and that they have a role in trying to educate these students so that they understand why this is happening. these principals also say that they're being very open with their students about what's happening in the trial. teaching them about it, also listening to their black and brown students about their lived experiences. and allowing them that space to vent. so joy, a lot of people out here calling for justice.

and we know that they're going to continue to be out here throughout the course of the deliberations. joy. >> megan fitzgerald, thank you very much. >> with me now is paul butler, george town law professor, and joyce vance, former attorney and msnbc columnist. you know, paul, we talk about this far too often. you wrote a book called "choke hold" and one of the things when i read your book that stood out to me is how obvious some of these cases of brutality seem and how disparate the result is. it's very difficult to convict a police officer of brutality. even in a case like this that seems so obvious, i think about rodney king when i think about this case. what do you make of the way the prosecution has acquitted themselves so far and the defense, and do you have any sense of how it's going for either side or how it went for either side? i guess it's done now. >> you're absolutely right, joy. it's really difficult to convict a police officer of any crime.

the few times they get charged with murder, they usually beat the case. and when it's a white officer accused of killing a black person, it's even more likely to be a not guilty verdict. but this case may be different. in part because in almost all previous prosecutions, a police officer shot somebody. jurors are sympathetic when it's a split-second decision. but derek chauvin had 9 minutes and 29 r jurors. >> and you know, joyce, i thought it was one of the most effective arguments that mr. blackwell was making, is there was no split second here. this was 9 minutes he had to reassess, and he didn't. law enforcement friends i have talked with said the worst thing for chauvin is that he kept his knee on george floyd's neck for at least three minutes after he had no pulse and after he was told by other officers that, you know, it was clear he was passed

out and that's where the danger lies. let me go through for the audience, here are the options, second degree murder which would bean chauvin caused his death while committing a felony, meaning he was committing an assault on him that caused his death. third degree murder, chauvin caused floyd's death through a dangerous act without regard to life. he had indifference to human life. and then second degree manslaughter, which is a ten-year potential sentence meaning he was negligent. he took unreasonable risks with his life. and i wonder if you can see in any of those charges the possibility that the prosecution sort of nailed one of them. >> it's really hard to talk about the prosecution nailing a case because prosecutors look at the evidence and how it comes in. but of course, the decision is made by a jury. and in this case, we haven't even been able to see the jury and watch their reactions. so i'm confessing to the limits of my crystal ball, joy, but

that said, i think the prosecution has put in significant evidence that would support a jury verdict for any of these charges if an appellate court were reviewing it. a court would not look at a conviction and say no, there's not enough evidence. evidence is insufficient. so we're going to reverse. the question really here is, how will the jury view this evidence? >> yeah, and let me ask both of you on this, the question, because i have talked to folks who say they could see particularly if it's just going on and on, a compromise verdict, let's say theiary decides to compromise because you have one or two people who don't want to convict on first degree, and then it goes on appeal. a couple issues. first, paul, then joyce. one, the fact that so many police officers testified against chauvin, which i have never seen before. but they had this exhibit which we're going to put on screen that shows all these other officers testifying against chauvin. whereas he didn't have a bunch of officers coming and

testifying for him. that's one issue. the second thing is that the defense tried to bring up congresswoman maxine waters, who has nothing to do with the case other than she like everyone else is watching it and traumatized like all of us and said short of the obvious, if he walks on something like this, you know, there's going to be more protests. people are going to become really depressed and dejected because if you can't convict on this set of evidence, what can you convict on? you know, now the defense wants to try to say that could be an issue on appeal. i want both of you to weigh in on that. paul first and then joyce. >> the judgment overboard on the maxine waters issue in its rhetoric but not in the legal ruling. so yes, judge cahill with slap a gag order on the prosecution and the defense. but not the whole country. not maxine waters. the jurors have been instructed to avoid news about the trial, so the judge correctly denied the defense request for a

mistrial. >> yeah. and you know, joyce, so okay, i want to read from elie mystal wrote a great piece. chauvin's defense is so basic that an attorney straight out of law school would pull it out. the lawyers are arguing the cops have a right to kill people if they think they need to. they allow a cop's own frailties, and even hysteria, to define the scope of their acceptable behavior. we know if you go through from michael brown all the way to daunte wright, all the way, police officers rarely even get charged let alone convicted of murder. we could go through all of them, put them all on screen. if in this very rare instance there is a conviction, could the comments of people who are just watching the trial, like everyone else, the congresswoman is still an american citizen and a human being and gets to make comments about the trial, could that be an issue on appeal if you get a rare conviction here in your view, joyce?

>> no, i don't think that's an issue on appeal. i agree with paul here, the judge used strong rhetoric and then the ruling was correct. you know, the only problem here, and i think the reason the judge spoke as sternly as he did, was to send a signal to folks to try to calm down a little bit while the jury is deliberating. because if by some horrible chance one of the jurors should be exposed to some of these comments, and if they form some of the basis for deliberation and then if down the road the defense were to find out that that happened, well, that would be grounds for reversal on appeal. but look, this is still america. where people get to talk about cases and express anger and concern about cases. and of course, congresswoman waters is a leading political figure in this country. so her remarks were appropriate in the context of her role. what we're really seeing here is the collision of two things. the trial of an individual police officer, derek chauvin,

and the trial of american policing as a whole. you know, that's not something that this jury is responsible for. that's our responsibility as americans to take on the need to transform policing in this country. >> absolutely. if you're going to talk about maxine waters. let's recall that she is from the place where the rodney king case and verdict took place, in which we all watched rodney king get beaten down in the street, and those officers walked. if it hadn't been for a set of federal charges, those officers would have faced no repercussions for it. it's weird because this current defense attorney for chauvin seemed to have plagiarized his defense of chauvin using exactly the same defenses that were used in the rodney king case. he was super human, he was on drugs, he was going to jump up. he just borrowed the same defense, and it worked in that case. i think a lot of people are traumatized. paul and joyce, thank you.

>> right now, jurors are indeed continuing their deliberations in the derek chauvin murder trial. up next, minnesota and the white house prepare for what that verdict might bring. plus, the prosecutor tells jurors that police are not on trial, but that's not exactly true. in many ways, as you heard from joyce vance, they are. and the absolute worst, from the smoldering ashes of the republican party comes the attempt to launch a white supremacist caucus devoted to, quote, uniquely anglo-saxon political traditions. whatever those are. we have seen this before in history, and there's no mistaking what they want. "the reidout" continues after this. i think the sketchy website i bought this turtle from stole all of my info. ooh, have you looked on the bright side? discover never holds you responsible for unauthorized purchases on your card. (giggling) that's my turtle. fraud protection. discover. something brighter.

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this case is called the state of minnesota v. derek chauvin. this case is not called the state of minnesota v. the police. it is not.

policing is a noble profession. and it is a profession. you met several minneapolis police officers during this trial. you met them. they took the stand. they testified. make no mistake, this is not a prosecution of the police. >> during his closing argument, prosecutor steve shu liker argued that this case is about derek chauvin and not about the police. but for far too many members of the community, including those who actually witnessed the death of george floyd, it's really not the case. they were reminded of that when daunte wright was shot to death in his car by a police officer in a minneapolis suburb. in the court of public opinion, policing is on trial. if chauvin walks, it's hard to imagine the community will recover. that's why minneapolis and cities across the country are on edge. waiting to see what the jurors decide. in fact, the implications of this trial are so momentous that multiple administration officials tell nbc news that president biden is expected to address the nation after the jury rendered a verdict.

this afternoon, the governor of minnesota, tim walz, and jacob frye attempted to calm the community's nerves by vowing to make changes. >> the things we have to do on systemic racism, we're a proud state, a state that needs to come to grips with our own history. we need have that conversation, we're a nation that needs to have that conversation. i pledge to do all i can. this is our moment, minnesota, to draw around our common humanity. the jury will decide that fate. i don't know what will come back. but what i do know is we're going to be shaped by the response, both in the coming days and in the months and years to come. >> we ask not for acquiescence or assent but for peace. the kind of peace that we seek here in the coming days, it must propel us forward to a better version of our city, to a vetter version of ourselves. >> earlier today, students from dozens of minnesota schools

walked out of their classrooms in a coordinated protest against racial injustice. and with me now is nikema levy armstrong, civil rights attorney. and nischelle norris, columnist for "the washington post." she's a native of minneapolis and grew up ten blocks from where george floyd was killed. thank you both for being here. i want to go to nikema first. right now, as we are -- we saw earlier our megan fitzgerald was talking about the crowds that have gathered. i don't see police bearing down on them, which is a relief, but thousands of national guard members are out there somewhere in fatigues. they're stationed on street corners. businesses are boarding up. they're surrounded by razor wire. you have twin cities residents indoors, under curfews. you have the curfews and all these concerns about quote/unquote law and order. give me a sense of what the mood

is and, because i just assume that everyone is holding their breath waiting to be disappointed and devastated by this verdict because of the way police -- verdicts against police usually go. what is the mood? >> well, i'm here right now outside of the government center where a large protest is being held. and rather than sit back and wait for the verdict, we're continuing to press forward in the fight for justice. that's how we got here. if it weren't for people taking to the streets, shutting down freeways, disrupting government meetings and press conferences, derek chauvin never would have been charged for killing george floyd, along with the three other officers who did so. neither would the officer who killed daunte wright just over a week ago. so we know we can't sit back and wait on a system that unfortunately has shown that it does not typically deliver justice to black people who have been killed by police.

>> right, and we know that the mohamed noor case was the exception. he was a black officer convicted of killing a white tourist from australia. and this is your hometown. it does feel like we're going through this exercise where if there is something other than a conviction, then there are three other officers who go on trial and one would think they'll go in a similar direction. let me let you listen, this is kimberly handy joins, and she went off on a acting police chief, and i believe she's also had an experience with a family member, losing a family member to police violence. take a listen. >> really concerned that the acting chief here, he can't wrap this around his head, what's going on with donte wraith. i wrap my head around it every day. can't wrap your head around it, but you go home and you wrap your arms around your kids every day.

every day. i'm going to need you to wrap your mind around it. i'm going to need you to get it, i'm going to neat you to put your boots on the ground and for you to care about black, brown, and indigenous bodies. i jonathan capehart wrote a piece over the weekend saying being black in america is exhausting. i think we all feel this exhaustion. let me let you talk about this. this is your hometown. >> it is. it's an exhaustion. it's anxiety. it is palpable fear. when you talk about what's happening in minneapolis, you can't drive a block without seeing national guardsmen on the corners. they're literally tearing up the streets to prevent people from getting downtown. literally taking jackhammers to the streets. and that's what i think a lot of people feel in minneapolis about what's happening to their heart. it's been a jackhammer to the heart to see this happen. and this will happen three more

times. you know, as you noted. it's not just this case. the prosecutor said that the police department is not on trial. a lot of people do feel like it is. and a lot of people feel like perhaps this is the moment that people who have not paid attention to this will finally understand what one officer did to an entire city. and you could perhaps see an entire state because there's not a person who lives in minneapolis or the twin cities who is not impacted by this in some way. and you could almost say that about the entire nation. and it's time we take a look at what's happening in policing and take a look at the attitudes that lead to this and the training that leads to this. i take the governor at his words when he says minneapolis will change. i think it probably will, but there are 18,000 police departments around the country. and the question is what will change, not just in minneapolis, but everywhere else in the country, because we keep seeing this. it's like living in groundhog

day. since the 29th of march, 64 people have died at the hands of law enforcement officers. something is wrong with the system. >> something is wrong. and nikema, i wonder, what is the breaking point? you know, for the community there. i mean, i don't know how much more people can take, honestly, nationy, but you can speak for the community there. >> we have already reached our breaking point, and to nischelle's point, she talked about some of this in her book a long time ago. and people started to have these conversations around race. but unfortunately, they stayed in a minnesota bubble and they didn't go out and try to critically examine the systems that are producing this oppression. we have already reached a breaking point. that's why we're taking to the streets. that's why we have shut things down. many of us ran for office. in 2017, i ran against jacob frye on a police accountability platform. i said if we don't reign in the

pd, we're going to become the next ferguson. the evidence is there, the statistics are there, but they want to appear progressive, and that means silencing the voices of those whose experiences don't mirror white minnesotans. and even now, our governors are speaking all this rhetoric, they're not serious about transforming system. it's going to be the people who make that happen. >> the rodney king case was in 1991. george floyd was still being accused of his own murder with the exact same terms. the same, he was going to jump up from the dead and be a threat. do you feel like, i mean, groundhog day was a good way to put it, i guess. >> and it hasn't -- we're seeing that defense all over again. and you know, he offered a smorgasbord of excuses for why this was reasonable policing. this moment invites us to think about what reasonable policing looks like. because you have to ask yourself, if what you saw in

that 9 minutes and 29 seconds was reasonable policing, and to the point made earlier about minneapolis and minnesota really being a progressive state, in some ways it makes it even harder to have these conversations. because the hardest people to awaken are the ones who think they're already woke. and so a moment like this will perhaps open people's eyes again to what's happening with policing and that there will not just be a conversation but a dismantling of the system, all the way out, all the way down to take it apart and build it back up again. in a way that the department truly is there to protect and to serve a public that right now does not trust them. >> yeah. i think you two just said a word. so i'm going to leave it right there. nikema and nischelle, thank you very much. >> and as we have said, i know we have been talking about, it's not just derek chauvin on trial. it's minneapolis, the entire system of policing. dozens of americans have been killed by police since this

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as the jury deliberates in the murder trial of derek chauvin, the reckoning around policing in the country is ongoing. "the new york times" reported since testimony began in the chauvin trial on march 29th, at least 64 people have died at the hands of law enforcement nationwide. with black and latino people representing more than half of the dead. an average of more than three killings a day. that includes tragically daunte wright, who was shot and killed by a police officer just ten miles from where george floyd died. while outrage over another police killing during a trial for a police killing has brought

out protest nationwide, those protests have also brought more evidence of aggressive policing. on friday in brooklyn center after protesters pushed against a fence, police responded with tear gas and pepper balls and more than 136 people were arrested. no journalists were among these arrested, but several covering the protests allege police harassed them, forced them on their stomachs and took pictures of them. meanwhile, there were massive protests in chicago over the police shooting of adam toledo, demanding justice for the 13-year-old who was shot with his hands up on march 29th. with the verdict in the chauvin trial now in the hands of a jury, there country is now bracing not only with outrage over the ongoing crisis but also for what comes next. and joining me is former detroit police officer ralph godby. can we address the issue of police responding to protests about police brutality with brutality? >> it is the most counterintuitive thing that anybody could do, joy. and you can't make sense out of nonsense. that has become one of my

favorite sayings, and my heart is so heavy today. just looking at what law enforcement is, i don't believe at all that malcolm, medgar, rosa, went through what they went through for us to be at the state of policing that we are in the united states right now. and you know, i'm afraid to say, people are afraid of the word defund. but what industry can you pay for something and the people that you pay have the power to kill you indiscriminately when they get a chance to? who would pay for something like that? we have to have the conversation because to do the same thing the same way and expect a different result is the definition of insanity. and there has to be fundamental on the ground change as to what law enforcement looks like in the united states. >> thank you for saying that. because i think people keep forgetting, the police are the employees of the citizens they're protecting and serving. the second part is serve. and so particularly in black

communities, where there are more tickets written, to glom money off these communities by having people write tickets. black communities and brown communities are literally paying the police to kill them. it actually is bizarre. >> literally paying for it. and joy, you bring up something that i think people really may not have an appreciation for, why we have to structurally change the police. it's incentivized for officers to write tickets. if they write tickets, they go to court. that's extra duty. if you have a bill you need to catch up on, you write some extra tickets. we as law enforcement, we have lost and we do not deserve to have the unfettered ability to use discretion in issuing tickets, if you look at any vehicle code in any state in the united states, it is so voluminous you can justify stopping anybody. and we have to wrestle that back.

the citizens need to get control of those types of things. some of the things, you know, even looking at daunte wright, the fact that even there's a specter of the fact that he was stopped for obstructed view because he had an air freshener hanging from his mirror. i dare you to go into an affluent white community, rich suburb, and make a stop of a bentley or a stop of a mercedes-benz, of a corporate individual. that person would be in the mayor's office yelling and screaming, demanding that person's job. yet, this is what's enforced in our communities routinely, and it's a ruse. it's not for protection, and it's not protecting our communities. we need to take an oath somewhat like doctors, the hippocratic oath. do no harm. we're doing too much harm to black and brown communities. >> i'm so glad you're saying all this because we have, on one weekend, an oath keeper talking about how, yeah, we have police in here. police are part of the oath

keepers. the people who help stormed the capitol. you have the proud boys, all of these stories, too close relationships with police. police among those who stormed the capitol. there are so many reasons for people to just have a basic lack of trust for policing. i mean, the george floyd act is out there. it has some good stuff in it. is there a law that you could pass that would fix this? because it feels like we -- police are losing the consent of the governed. we do not consent to having police use us for revenue, like revenuers, glom money off us with pretextual stops and kill us when we don't comply. this is not something that no community would ever consent to, but police are demanding that black and brown people consent to it. is there a law that can fix this? what fixes this? >> i think this is where there has to be a national initiative to enforce some of these things. because the previous guest was right on point. there are 18,000 police agencies in the united states of america,

give or take. average of about 50 officers. so we get so excited and say, i have a good chief. well, that's one out of 18,000. and systemically, you cannot make the necessary change. so what i would opine, we have to look at a different way of funding law enforcement. courts cannot be driven by revenue from the communities that can least afford it, because you're robbing those communities of resources, and you are creating criminals. the second thing you have to find a different way to compensate police officers. number one, we don't need as many as we have because we're overpolicing in our communities. but we have to find a different level of compensation because if there is a financial incentive to your enforcement, it is ripe for corruption. then you add to that, and this is no secret, this is not new. the fbi told us years ago, that white supremacists were infiltrating the ranks of police departments. ie, proud boys, ie, you know, the ku klux klans. they don't have to wear masks

anymore. they put on uniforms and they terrorize our communities. we have to make that change. if this country is going to rebound and be what it potentially has to be, and i put out a challenge to president biden, black people put you in office. and we need you to stand tall for us. and make the change necessary. if you have to get rid of the filibuster, whatever is necessary, protect black and brown people from being killed indiscriminately by police, it needs to be done. >> well, you can get an amen. it's not sunday, but you get an amen. i hope the president gets in touch with you. ralph, thank you so much for everything you said tonight. president biden, call chief godby, he has some good ideas for you. thank you very much, sir. >> there also is a difference. wow, that was real. there is a difference between the gop flirting with the idea of white supremacy and just bringing it in for a big old sloppy wet smooch. of course, if you're going to go ahead and form a white supremacy caucus in congress, that puts

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to learn more, visit safetyactioncenter.pge.com the plan among some house republicans to create a so-called american first caucus died what so much as a whimper this weekend. but however short lived, it confirmed anti-immigrant racism is in the modern day republican party. the idea for the america first caucus began with two of the most extreme republican members of congress. the qanon conspiracy loving marjorie taylor greene and nativist congressman paul gosar, who spoke at a white nationalist conference in february. it's bad enough their proposed caucus intended to push the values of former president donald trump, but their seven-page mission statement, which leaked to punch bowl news on friday, is a manifesto that's

guaranteed to appeal to white nationalists. it explicitly champions, quote, anglo-saxon political traditions. to that end, it details the existential threat that it says immigrants pose to america's unique culture. it complains that those who immigrated here after the 1965 immigration act, come at the expense of the native born. and it even says that pausing immigration has been essential to weeding out those who could not abandon their own loyalties. as vanity fair put it, greene and gosarwas basically starting a white supremacy caucus. even after their embarrassing screed was leaked to the press, there was one republican who was still eager to embrace them, congressman matt gaetz who is under investigation for possible sex trafficking, publicly endorsed the platform, but by saturday, even margie q herself was trying to disown the group she tried to create. she claimed on twitter they released a staff level draft

proposal from an outside group that i hadn't read. when in doubt, blame the staff, but she still defended the proposal by attacking the journalists who accurately reported what it said, accusing the media of taking it out of context. that's why greene and her america first cohorts are clearly the absolute worst. and while they may not be forming an official caucus in the house, the ideas they put in their manifesto are consistent with the direction the party is heading. just consider that people like tucker carlson and senator ron johnson are openly embracing white replacement theory. >> they have become literally hysterical if you use the term replacement, if you suggest the democratic party is trying to replace the current electorate, the voters now casting ballots, with new people, more obedient voters from the third world, but they become hysterical because that's what's happening. every time they import a new voter, i become disenfranchised as a current voter.

>> this administration wants complete open borders. you have to ask yourself why. is it really they want to remake the demographics of america to make sure they stay in power forever? is that what's happening here? >> for the republicans behind the america first caucus went further with their pledge to protect anglo-saxon traditions and that term has a darkest history, which we'll explore coming up next. a flexible weal. you'll have access to tax-smart investing strategies, and with brokerage accounts online trades are commission free. personalized advice. unmatched value. at fidelity, you can have both. i think the sketchy website i bought this turtle from stole all of my info. ooh, have you looked on the bright side? discover never holds you responsible for unauthorized purchases on your card. (giggling) that's my turtle. fraud protection. discover. something brighter.

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the term anglo-saxons was thrown around a lot by people in the south. and not in a good way. in 1908, a confederate monument was dedicated honoring the fathers and forefathers of our anglo-saxon element. in 1903, a judge said the highest type of anglo-saxon manhood may be found in the south. and in north carolina, a confederate veteran said, you are anglo-saxons. if you find a negro out voting, shoot him in his tracks. then he led an insurrection to overthrow the bi-racial

government in wilmington. and now, we see marjorie taylor greene and others pushing for a caucus in the house with similar aims. stewart, your new book touches on this stuff. they're bringing back the old-timers, the bad, old days of talking about anglo-saxons needing to rise up against black voters and immigrants. it's pretty gross. your thoughts? >> look, i think it's fitting that you brought up those statutes from the era of the lost cause. i'm a seventh generation mississippian, and the same sort of things is happening now, with the whole insurrection. there's an attempt to rewrite

history about what it was. and we should be clear. it was an attempt to disenfranchise largely african-american votes because they didn't vote the way that the white 147 republicans who voted to do that wanted to support. and this is just a battle of what is america. is it a country of immigrants, is it a great melting pot, or is it a place where white people should by some sort of natural law govern? and there's no compromise with this. one or the other of those two visions and sustain itself. >> i think you're absolutely right. there's a sense, jason, this is sort of a lost cause part two, trying to deny that january 6th happened, just like with the civil wa. and there is also a part of it that feels like it's marjorie

taylor greene, raising a lot of money over this. we need to tell our people this, or they won't vote. how much is genuine throwback, let's go back to the 1920s, and how much is purely about getting out their vote? >> cash rules everything around the gop. that's all this is. this is a way to raise money. this is a way to raise profiles. it's not about policy. most of these people don't care about governing one way or another. but you can raise a lot of money off of white grievance. america is a country run by white people who have occasionally, as 200 years have passed, become more and more accepting of the fact that the black people who got dragged here occasionally have some

rights, too. what we're seeing from people like gosar, taylor greene, and matt gaetz, is they're holding on to the last remnants of a white society that doesn't accept that other people live here. you can make money off of that, but you can't win an election that way. a lot of the gop is about individually raising people's profile and raising money, not governing. >> can i just play for you, the former prime minister of australia was on cnn, and did a really extraordinary interview. i hope people have seven minutes to watch it. but i want to play a little bit about what he said. jason said it's great to make money off of this, here's what this gentleman, mr. turnbull said about newscorp. take a listen. >> it does not operate as a conventional news or journalistic operation any

longer. its influence in the united states and britain, in all of the countries where it is to be found is now utterly partisan. what murdoch has delivered is exactly what vladimir putin wanted to achieve with his disinformation campaigns. turning one part of america against another. what they've created is a market for crazy. >> and, you know, what i found fascinating about this, this is malcolm turnbull, former prime minister, he's talking about newscorp, it is that, isn't it. and it's very lucrative for that family. >> yeah, i mean, i'm pro-immigration. but rupert murdoch is the most dangerous immigrant in america. he never assimilated to american

values. there's always been a market of hate in this country in our politics. the difference in this moment is, it's largely been adopted as policy by a major political party, the republican party. this has never happened before. the platform that the republican party ran on was an oath to donald trump. this is really different. we should not confuse this with other moments we've been in. it's a radically different vision of america. and how this is going to end up, i think, is very much in doubt. >> and jason, it's the evolution of the republican party into the white interest party. the democrats are then the party of everybody else. what is the response to that? >> i want to make something else clear. malcolm turnbull is a

conservative. it's the conservative leadership in australia that are saying this guy is dangerous. so, the murdoch family, when they're saying these people are a danger to democracy, that's what i think people have to understand. when it's not fox in america, it's oann. >> thank you guys both very much. that is "the reidout." "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> you can believe your own eyes. this case is exactly what you thought when you saw it. >> the prosecution closes its case. >> it's exactly what you knew. it's what you felt in your gut. it's what you now know in your heart. >> and the defense makes one last stand. >> you have to be