good afternoon, everyone. i am ayman mohyeldin in new york. we are entering hour 11 of jury deliberations in the murder trial of derek chauvin. we are monitoring the situation and watching for a verdict. president biden is planning to speak to the nation once the verdict is announced. earlier at a meeting with lawmakers from the congressional hispanic caucus, biden confirmed he called the family of george floyd yesterday. >> they're a good family and

they're calling for peace and tranquility, no matter what that verdict is. i am praying the verdict is the right verdict, it is overwhelming in my view. i wouldn't say that unless the jury was sequestered now. >> meanwhile, controversy continues over comments from maxine waters for protesters to get more confrontational if chauvin was acquitted which the judge said didn't provide reason for mistrial but could eventually be used for appeal. congresswoman waters dismissed the suggestion she was calling for violence saying i am nonviolent. in the white house briefing room minutes ago, press secretary jen psaki faced questions about it. >> does the white house condone the congresswoman's comments? >> well, first, i would say again, the congresswoman clarified her own comments. >> does the white house believe those kinds of comments are

helpful in the middle of a trial everybody knows could lead to more violence and unrest? >> again, i can speak to what the president's point of view is which is that it is important to provide an opportunity for peaceful protests. that's what he continued to advocate. >> joining me with the latest, msnbc anchor and host of velchi, and charles coleman, and with us from washington, d.c., digital reporter shannon pettypiece. and garrett haake. tell us what the situation is outside the courthouse as people wait for a verdict and anxiety continues to build. >> reporter: yeah. ayman, i am here downtown. this is the intersection of 6th and nick oh let. dave will show you the courthouse is two blocks from here, great building.

that's the courthouse. there's two lines of fencing in front of it that is kept protected by national guard. you have national guard there on a city downtown in minneapolis. closures, emt people that don't have time off, police are all on shift. seeing police cars riding in twos, not just one car at a time, two, backed up by national guard. buildings look like this. this is an office building in downtown minneapolis. it is all closed off. you say what do people do if they want to get to work, need to get to work. if you know minneapolis downtown, the skywalks, they're moving on the sky walks, it connects buildings inside. you can eat there, do your work. every one of these has an alternate entrance. in this office building, this is the only door available to go in now. there will be somebody inside like a guard or somebody that once you're inside will close it up. even shops and restaurants are open but fully boarded up. you look everywhere, there's a

five guys, fully boarded. caribou coffee, fully boarded. office plaza, that's open now. the windows are boarded up so they can't be broken. this is a catering place on the corner, everything is boarded. this is how minneapolis looks. brooklyn center is ten miles north of here, that's where there was another killing last week, same thing. the police station, completely boarded up. school is in session, but about to end in a couple of hours. and tomorrow and thursday and friday, school is not in session. it will be done remotely which they know how to do. i will remind you, we're in "the 11th hour" of testimony. last time a minneapolis police officer was tried for killing a civilian, here in minneapolis, it was 11 hours of testimony before they found him guilty. that's what people are saying, last time a cop shot a person, they were found guilty in minneapolis. that cop, by the way, was black,

the victim in that case was white. a lot of tension. there are protests. there was a big one around here. very orderly. to give you a sense of it, it came down here. the protest went down the middle of the street, there were marshals on either side in front and behind. if somebody wandered on the sidewalk, got near property, marshals put them back on the street. they're trying to keep things as orderly as possible, protesters and police and authorities, but a lot of tension here. >> stay with us. charles, to ali's point, we are in hour 11. way too early to speculate about anything to do with what the jury is thinking. explain to us where they might be in the process, what generally happens when the jury begins the deliberation process, are they seeking evidence, going through records, what happens? >> sure. what they will usually do is open up by taking a vote to understand where different jurors are and what their

reservations might be. based off that, they're going through different pieces of evidence to make sure everyone is on the same page in terms of what the recollection is, how memory serves them around testimony and evidence put before them. they will periodically take votes to understand where everyone is on particular issues, on particular elements, break it down piece by piece, then put it together to make the decision what the verdict is ultimately. that will involve looking at different pieces of evidence, recalling testimony, making sure everyone's recollection is on the same page. so the process can take awhile, especially if different people are remembering things differently in terms of what they heard during the course of the trial. >> the president weighed in on

this. what pressure are they under? >> you hear him describing the tension felt in minnesota, there's tension in washington, too, certainly at the white house on how they'll respond. nbc news was told by administration officials they have been planning for weeks how they will respond and gaming out various scenarios based on what the verdict is. the president is expected to make a statement after there's a verdict. as you mention, he already weighed in to some extent in comments you played a few moments ago, he is hoping for the right verdict and feels the evidence is overwhelming, though stopping short of saying what exactly that verdict should be. it was of course something that white house press secretary jen psaki was pressed on, she was pressed to respond to comments on maxine waters, sort of side stepping those questions, and another area of pressure i would add is a response with some sort

of action, so not only what words does the president say but what actions does he take based on the outcome of the trial. there are several things the president has already done in this area, things he can do, via executive action. any of the big stuff when it comes to police reform depends on congress and it appears like other pieces of legislation, that that legislation is stuck in congress and not making its way anytime soon to the president's desk. >> garrett, politics is front and center in this as well. house minority leader kevin mccarthy is taking this opportunity to push for a censure vote against congresswoman waters over her comments. how are democratic lawmakers responding, are they backing her up? >> reporter: democratic leaders had her back. speaker pelosi said waters said nothing to apologize for. steny hoir called it a phony

controversy. and they said kevin mccarthy ought to clean up messes in his own conference. there may be rank and file democrats frustrated to vote on this, to vote to table a censure resolution or something like this, if they don't want to be put in position of defending another member's comments they themselves may not have made or may not have felt were appropriate. but this is almost reaching gold medal area of what aboutism. republican lawmakers are speaking out against comments by maxine walters, have no concern about comments that were metaphorical, including the former president several months ago. they'll try to wring as much as they can, democrats have her back. >> it fueled an appeal by the defense that was shot down by the judge, but the judge had some comment saying it could potentially be used or lay

ground work in an appeal process. what do you make of the judge's remarks. where do you come down whether that was appropriate by the judge to invoke congresswoman maxine waters' comments in the trial. >> well, i don't think we should put too much weight in terms of the judge and conjecture on the comments. ultimately, he decided to sequester the jury, instructed them clearly they were not to consume those, taking in outside sources of information that could be related to the trial. because of that, the likelihood that comments will be ultimately prejudicial to the defendant is extremely low. you heard when the president made his comment briefly, what he also said was i know the jury has been sequestered, now i am saying this. because he is also aware of the fact the judge has given them instructions. i don't make much of his comments in as much as what he said i look at is being conjecture in many respects. he did deny any sort of

conversation of mistrial. he said this may be appealable issue, but he is not a judge on the appeals court, that's not his call to make. ultimately i wouldn't get too worked up about that overall. what i will say quickly, we started this conversation talking about the protests and being prepared for potential backlash in terms of how we process the verdict when it comes out. what i think is important to frame this appropriately, people that are protesting and having conversations are more concerned about reasons for the protest than actual results of the protest because the overwhelming majority of folks sought to speak out before, during, after the trial have done so peacefully with the aim of improving police culture in america. >> charles, thank you so much for raising that. thanks to all of you as well. joining me, california democratic congresswoman jackie speers, a member of the

committees on intelligence, oversight, armed services. congresswoman, thank you for coming back on the program. i want to start with the trial of derek chauvin. did you find the arguments in the case compelling? do you think the prosecution secured a conviction? >> i think they were very compelling. i would be surprised, totally surprised if he was not. >> do you think it was appropriate the president spoke on the trial earlier today? >> well, they're sequestered so anything that a politician would say at this point will not have impact on the decision making by the jurors. >> and let me ask you if i can about minority leader kevin mccarthy trying to force a house vote to censure your colleague, also from california, congresswoman maxine waters over her comments. protesters should get more

confrontational. what would you say to leader mccarthy, can he get enough votes for that censure? >> i think that mr. mccarthy has an ability of only seeing democrats, not republicans. they can fight like hell. there are three on average, three people that are killed by police every day in this country. it is time for us to look at reforms so everyone can feel safe. we want the police to know their jobs and act appropriately. we want to make sure everyone else feels safe as well. >> let's turn to afghanistan if i can. national security officials are briefing the senate on the planned withdrawal of troops

from afghanistan. do you support the president's plan to withdraw, what are your major concerns in remaining months that the u.s. is on the ground there? >> my major concern with troops still on the ground is what will the taliban do once the deadline is reached which was actually created by then president trump, and it hasn't given us the kind of time and opportunity to get our equipment out, certainly to get our troops out. i am very concerned about the safety of our troops that will be in afghanistan from may through september. i also am concerned that we made great strides in the last 20 years for women and children, particularly girls that could then go to school in the last 20 years that before could not. and the whole status of a generation of women and girls is at risk, and i continue to be concerned about our ability to have our ear to the ground to

know what al qaeda and isis is doing. they still have remnants of those organizations alive and well in afghanistan and pakistan and i think not having any ability to assess that close at hand is going to make it difficult for us. >> it seems you are not in support of withdrawal. is that safe to say, based on what you told me? >> i don't oppose the withdrawal. i think we need a presence on the ground. and i don't know if we're going to be able to negotiate that or not. >> former president george w. bush was speaking on the "today" show earlier today, shared how he reacted when president biden told him the news. watch. >> my first reaction was wow, they're going to have trouble with the taliban. lot of gains had been made. i am concerned about the plight of women and girls in that country. >> think we should have held off on that? >> we'll see.

time will tell. i think the administration hopes the girls are going to be okay through diplomacy. we'll find out. >> it is a point you were just talking about. does he have a valid point and how do you ensure that beyond the withdrawal date that women and young women and girls are protected in that country and the taliban does not return to power? >> ayman, that is indeed an abiding concern that we all have. i certainly have it. we have to create opportunities for women and girls to come to the united states to be protected and for all of the interpreters and other aids that provided us so much cover and protection while we were there because they will be prime targets as well. in the number of months we have, we have to make efforts to make sure we keep those people safe. young girls are now with the taliban, can't go to school

after the age of 13. imagine what's going to happen once they take over the country. >> we have to wait and see. it is also a concern of afghan ambassador to the u.s. who i spoke to about it. thank you so much for your time as always. and we are following breaking news in new york. a shooting at a supermarket left one dead and two injured. we have an update on the suspect next. and live look at the white house where the flag is lowered to half staff in honor of former vice president walter mondale's passing. you're watching msnbc. s passing. you're watinchg msnbc. we made usaa insurance for busy veterans like kate. so when her car got hit, she didn't waste any time. she filed a claim on her usaa app and said, “that was easy.” usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa.

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our news room received breaking news while we were in commercial break. a suspect is in custody following a manhunt after a shooting at a stop and shop on long island that left one person dead and two wounded. joining me with the latest, rehema ellis in west hempstead, new york. what did we learn so far? >> reporter: what we learned, ayman, is that the suspect was apprehended about two miles away from here in a town called hempstead. i am in west hempstead, long island, east of new york city. the stop and shop is behind me, you see the lights flashing. that's where this happened this morning around the 11:30 hour. to your point, there were three people shot, a 49-year-old employee was killed, two other

people were wounded when a gunman opened fire in the manager's office of the stop and shop supermarket. police say the suspect was a 30-year-old gabriel dewitt, described as wearing all black, including a black baseball cap. witnesses say they saw him coming out of the supermarket and we have a person that was at the cashier, we talked about that already, that when all of this came down, do we have sound of that, of this person? >> i heard six shots and sitting in the parking lot watching and they put somebody on a stretcher. i mean, they have so many ambulances here. i saw somebody come out on a stretcher. >> reporter: it is an all too familiar scenario here in the united states. earlier there were images of people coming out of the supermarket with empty hands

raised as they were leaving the area, doing what they were told by police so they could remain safe. once again, the breaking news here is that a suspect has been apprehended. we believe it is the person that police were looking for, 30-year-old gabriel dewitt wilson, this is in connection with the shooting this morning at the supermarket where three people were shot, one dead, two other people injured. schools in the area have been put on lockdown, people were told to shelter in place. a news conference is coming in a short while. we'll learn more and get back to you. >> rehema ellis for us. thank you. and moving on to breaking news overseas, chad's president deby died while visiting troops on the front line battling rebels. his death coming hours after deby was announced winner of the country's presidential election, that would have kept him in power another six years.

the u.s. embad ee in chad alerting them that airport and land border are closed, should shelter in place until further notice. joining me from london, kelly cobiella. what can you tell us about the situation there and what he was doing on the frontlines? >> reporter: yeah. first just to put it in context, ayman, chad and deby are key western allies in the fight against islamist militants in the region of africa. this is a very important country in terms of the fight against islamists in africa. deby was visiting troops in the northern part of the country where the country is fighting the insurgency since 2016. this is common for him. he is a career soldier, strong man. former rebel himself. he likes to be seen out with the

troops. he ran on a campaign of security and strength and the power of the army. apparently he was with the troops in the north. the rebels were fighting the troops and he was wounded at some point. his death announced by the military on national tv earlier today and on radio. the military saying he died of wounds. we can't verify how he died, what he died of, really difficult to do that. but there are reports that he was present and that rebels were creating some difficulties for government troops. there are reports they advanced several hundred miles into the country from the border with libya, getting close to the capital. u.s. embassy was putting out warnings to citizens in the country as you mention, telling people to shelter in place.

there's now a curfew in place, and real concerns about stability in chad tonight. the state department spokesman, ned price, talked about this a short time ago. take a listen. >> on behalf of the united states we offer the people of chad our sincere condolences as they mourn the passing of president deby. we condemn recent loss of life in chad. the united states stands with the people of chad during this difficult time. we support peaceful transition of power in accordance with the chadian constitution. >> reporter: the constitutional protocols are not being followed right now, this is part of the problem. not only do you have insurgency that seems fairly strong but a government that is sort of going rogue, the national assembly has been disbanded, the power has been handed to deby's 37-year-old son, also in the

military, a four star general. he is heading up transitional council for the next 18 months, but again, ayman, the concern really is is this a stable country, will these rebel forces make more in roads and cause problems in a neighborhood that's already quite unstable. >> kelly cobiella live on that breaking news. thank you. we have new details about the death of capitol police officer brian sicknick. and a european regulator says johnson & johnson covid vaccine should come with a warning. details on its findings, that's also next. you're watching msnbc. indings, also next. you're watching msnbc. that delicious scramble was microwaved? get outta here.

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welcome back, everyone. you're looking at a live picture from minneapolis inside the courtroom. the jury as we understand it now reached a verdict in the derek chauvin murder trial. so far we have very little information. that verdict could be ready between 4:30 and 5:30 p.m. eastern time. but as we understand it now, the

jury after nearly 11 hours of deliberation on the second day has now reached a verdict. and as we mentioned earlier in the program as we were discussing this, it comes amidst a flurry of activity both inside minneapolis as well as from politicians. three charges that the jury was deliberating. obviously have no idea what that verdict is until read into the courtroom. you're seeing a live picture from inside that. judge cahill who is presiding over the courtroom and this trial will appear at some point once the jury is brought back into the courtroom to read that verdict. we are trying to a assemble our team of reporters. as we were talking about this at the top of the hour, the city of minneapolis as well as other parts of the country had been on high alert in the past several days. national guard has been

activated. say that one more time, jeff. let's cross-over to shaquille brewster in minneapolis for us, covering the trial for us from the beginning. shaq, what do you know? >> reporter: ayman, we know pretty much what you said, that's just in the past couple minutes, we got notification from the court saying the verdict has been reached. it was a short notification. the jury verdict will be ready between 3:30 and 4:30 p.m. local time, between 4:30 and 5:30 eastern time. we know the court was going to give us a heads up. seems like that's what's happening now. a verdict has been reached after 11 hours of deliberations. what that means now, we know in the downtown area things have been tense. we know even today since closing arguments there's been visible security presence and also

visible presence in terms of the protesters and demonstrators down the street, people that have been here pretty aggressively with their signs, honking horns. they've been making clear. you may hear someone talking about derek chauvin. right down the street, people with signs saying they want justice for george floyd and are following this closely. we can expect more people to come in now, more people to come into the courthouse to see and wait until we hear what the verdict is. we know from the notification it will be read in open court. you see the seal there on the screen. just as we have seen other instances, all of the testimony and jury selection process, we expect the judge to come up and we'll see that process play out. what we know from the court had self, telling us within an hour or so we will know the verdict in the trial of derek chauvin. >> shaq, let me remind viewers of the three charges that derek chauvin is facing now, and the jury could come back with a

decision rendered on one or all of these. second degree murder, third degree murder, second degree manslaughter. can you elaborate on that since you have been covering this from the beginning? >> reporter: yeah. i have these jury instructions that were printed out, handed to the jury, read to the jury before they went in to deliberations. three separate counts. start with second degree murder. that's the highest charge. carries the most weight. it is the first count that derek chauvin is facing. under the law, it says a person committing or causing the death of another person without intent to cause the death of another person while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense is guilty of the crime of murder in the secondary. how that translates to this case is the prosecution has been arguing that derek chauvin used

excessive force on george floyd by the knee on the back, the knee on the neck. they're saying that was essentially a third degree assault. they're saying that in derek chauvin committing the third degree assault, excessive force, that's why we heard from the police chief and other ex-officers and current officers in the minneapolis police department, they're saying in committing the third degree assault, that resulted in george floyd's death. so those are the factors that the jury had to consider as they were going through and considering the secondary murder charge. there's also a third degree murder charge. that charge is one we saw another officer, in that case the jury deliberated 11 hours before they came to a verdict, and they showed that mohamed noor was guilty in a police shooting two or three years ago. in that case, the third degree murder charge, that's one that's facing appeal. remember, this judge in this

case dismissed that third degree murder charge initially, appellate court said he needed to reconsider adding it back. that was some of the drama we saw last month. then there's a second degree manslaughter charge, a lower offense. that has a maximum penalty or maximum sentence of just ten years. i tell you, talking to protesters and talking to members of the floyd family, people have been watching this closely, including maxine waters who is here in brooklyn center yesterday, who was connected to this, heard complaints from different political leaders about this, people wouldn't be happy if that's the only charge that derek chauvin is convicted of. that is the charge that carries a ten year sentence, based on sentencing guidelines for someone that has not been convicted of a felony before, we know that sentence could be less than the maximum ten year sentence, somewhere closer to six years or possibly five years once it is said and done.

three charges that derek chauvin is facing again, second degree murder, third degree murder, and second degree manslaughter. we will know what the jury had to say about this in about an hour. >> to that point, shaq, stay with me a moment. i'm sure as the word trickles out a verdict has been reached, we'll see that reaction on the street as crowds begin to form, waiting in anticipation for that. i am going to give you a chance to see what you collect in terms of atmosphere. i want to bring into the conversation former chief public defender in hennepin county that joins us now. first, your reaction to the timing of this, how do you see the fact that in 12 hours or so that a decision has been reached? is there anything to be read into that whatsoever? >> yes. yesterday i anticipated or guessed, i don't have a crystal ball, i expected the jury to be back today because the evidence in this case was fairly

overwhelming. the state presented an excellent case. they asked for instructions from the judge which they got which were extremely favorable. some instructions were confusing, it was the first time the jurors heard those. it was not unusual they would spend yesterday going through the instructions, trying to apply them to the facts in this case. i am not surprised at all and expecting a verdict of guilt on all three counts. >> and it is important to emphasize, obviously we're going to find it out when it is read in the next hour or so, according to the court statement. you say the instructions were confusing. can you elaborate on that, why were they so confusing? >> well, the defense misstated one of the instructions and there's part of the instruction on causation that talks about a superseding cause. the defense was arguing that george floyd's heart, the drugs, carbon monoxide, that that may

have been a superseding cause. but what he said in closing was if you find that played a role or contributed to george floyd's death, then that would be reasonable doubt. that was a misstatement of the law because what the law says is that if derek chauvin or derek chauvin's actions had to be a substantial cause of death, not the cause, but a substantial cause of death. it didn't matter if his actions created a chain of events such as the heart problem or drugs that eventually led to his death. the instruction itself was a little confusing with superseding cause and the defense did misstate it, and the state had to go through that again during rebuttal. they did a good job going through it. and there was a lot of medical testimony that they had to apply, was there substantial bodily harm in this case. it is not surprising they took awhile to go through the instructions and we also know this is a tremendous importance

and jurors know that. i am sure they wanted to be confident about the decision they were about to render. >> mary, if you don't mind, stay with us. i want to bring into the conversation rachel pallow. former u.s. attorney for state of minnesota. thank you so much for joining us. your reaction to this. again, 12 hours by legal standards, do you see that as being quite fast? is it a quick turnaround for a jury to come back with a verdict so quickly? >> 12 hours in a murder case is remarkably fast so i think this only portends a guilty verdict. the question is on which counts will derek chauvin be found guilty, all, one, or two. no question given the significance of this case, the jury did need to go through the elements, the three different offenses carefully and consider the state's proof on each of

that. i agree with the professor, the state's case was compelling with about 40 witnesses, testifying clearly and consistently on the cause of death being the lack of oxygen, on use of force being completely unreasonable, and not in line with minneapolis training or not in line with national training. and on the effect on bystanders, perfect strangers who witnessed this event in real time and understood from their own common sense that they were witnessing something horrific. i think the speed of this jury's verdict indicates that they also believed that something horrific happened here. we'll have an opportunity to hear more about that. but given the seriousness of the charges, this is a very quick verdict. >> rachel, stay with me a second. i want to cross back to shaq brewster, the word is trickling up, people are showing up outside the courthouse.

shaq, you're speaking to people there. bring us up to speed on what they're telling you. >> reporter: ayman, i told you about the idea people are coming, that's true for ashley. she said she just came downtown. she was walking by and heard our report. she heard us tell you that the court is now saying a verdict has been reached but you were coming here to support george floyd and to have your voice be heard. what are you thinking now that we know we will find out the jury's verdict any minute now? >> i am very nervous, i am shaking i am so nervous. i hope there's justice but i know that it is a whole jury that has everything to consider, but i'm hoping we get justice for this and i'm glad i came down and able to be part of what's happening now, regardless of what's going on, because i feel like this is a pivotal change in american society and i need to be part of it. >> talk to me a little about why you came down in the first place. why did you come down to the

courthouse before you knew there was anything happening? >> i couldn't participate when the protests happened last summer because i live with my grandparents. now that we're fully vaccinated, i feel safe enough to come down and express my voice, be here to partake in the change that's going to happen around america. i am hoping that this is a pivotal moment where we start to see real change. >> what has it been like living in minneapolis, you live just outside the city, but what has it been like living in the area the past couple of weeks? you look at the barbed wire, national guard deploying 3,000 troops activated in the area. what's it been like being here? >> it is tense. i have been nervous. i work at a bank. we had to go through emergency protocols what would happen if there were protests, that makes me really anxious, but it is just pins and needles, watching the trial, living here, seeing what's happened in the last week or so.

it is just overwhelming i think at the end of everything. >> you see the boarded up buildings and law enforcement presence. what do you think when you see those? what goes through your head as you move around? >> i know they're here to keep us safe and i hope they stay safe and i really hope people that come out to protest peacefully don't cross the line. they know national guard is here to keep us safe but it is very anxious kind of feeling to have all of that around constantly. it has been like that i guess for the last year almost. george floyd started and the protests started until now, i feel like we have been in national guard presence. tanks go down the street. the street has become normalized. that's very uneasy feeling for me. >> absolutely. thank you so much for stopping and talking. >> thank you so much. i really appreciate it. i love you guys.

thank you so much for covering all of this the way you have. i really appreciate it. >> thank you. we'll be here throughout. ayman, i want to say that anxiety, that's a feeling, a word you hear over and over again as you talk to people in the minneapolis area, not just minneapolis but the entire metropolitan area. >> i was going to say it is not just the city on pins and needles but the country as we await the verdict to be read in the next 45 minutes or so. stay with us. i want to bring in civil rights attorney, former brooklyn prosecutor charles coleman. welcome back. you and i started the program talking about this. i was struck by the young woman we were hearing from there, ashley, talking about how this could be a pivotal moment for this country to really bring about the change. i want you to expand on that thought for a moment. she used the word justice. i've been hearing people say it is hard to get justice in a single trial, what people want to see is accountability. talk to us about that for a moment.

>> i appreciate that question because at the end of the day i think we placed a lot of weight on what this trial means for america and american society. i think it is appropriate. however, regardless of whatever the verdict is going to be in the next moments in terms of when we hear it, we need to be careful that we do not make this a gold standard of american jurisprudence. this is our basement floor, not our ceiling. we should not take video of a man restrained and not resisting in the prone position with a knee on his neck in broad daylight on video for ten minutes to get a conviction and set that as the bar. that again is the least of what it is we should expect from the justice system. we have much more to do and much further to go. so it is important that we understand this is not the bar, this is not the standard, this is the minimum. as we move forward toward what justice can and should look like in america, we should keep that in mind.

ostensibly speaking, i want viewers to consider there's very little difference between eric garner and george floyd. there was video in that case, acquittal, not even a prosecution fully, no grand jury indictment. now we are looking at the possibility of conviction. so yes, that does represent and move us toward justice, but we should be mindful of the fact there's so much more work to do, so much further to go. >> charles, do you have any thoughts about the speed in which this verdict or this decision by the jury has been reached? how do you analyze that 12 hours into deliberation process on day two, first full day of deliberations, there is a verdict. >> what i can say is i think that's extremely fast which ultimately bodes well for the prosecution. they put on 37 witnesses, defense put on several witnesses. there was a plethora of argument

that the jury was left to consider, a number of pieces of evidence before the jury, lots of videotape, lots of reports. the fact that the jury was able to unanimously make a decision this quickly tells me that they likely were very, very much so persuaded by a very powerful, strategic and intentional case that was put on by the prosecution. i cannot imagine that unanimously in 11 or 12 hours that this jury decided derek chauvin was not guilty on anything was he charged with, that would be very, very hard to imagine. so while i am not any fortune teller, what i do say is the speed at which we are seeing a verdict in this case more than likely bodes well for the prosecution and what it is they put before the jury. >> stay with me. i want to go back to rachel on a point charles made, profound statement about how this trial

should not be used as the ceiling for our judicial system and justice in america for black man killed at the hands of police. your thoughts on this moment in the context of what the young woman our college shaquille brewster and a pivotal moment for this. could this be a beginning of change, or does it mark we are begin to go change? >> i hope it's the beginning of change. what we sauce from chauvin's team is a repeat of -- to acquit white officers of the beating or killing of people of color, and so what you saw in this case was the defense's attempt to paint a group of maybe seven or eight people, including minor children, as a scary mob, presumably because they were in the inner city, they attempted to paint mr. floyd as a scary

black man who apparently was going to come back from handcuffs, a prone position, and no pulse, and no breath to attack derek chauvin and rampage the city. they painted the pros an unduly prejudicial. if those arguments have failed in this case, it will be a sign to defense counsel that they need to try something other than blaming the victim, blaming the community, and using old racial stereotypes to actually talk about the evidence in these kinds of trials rather than relying on stereotypes. i think that will be a positive development for the legal system. >> rachel, stay with me for a moment. i want to share with our viewers and you as well a tidbit of information. we were anticipating as we have been reporting the past couple days that president joe biden would be making a statement at

some point once the verdict is read. we are also expecting reaction from illinois' attorney. we have gotten word from kristin welker in fact the white house are huddling upper press in an area of the white house to prepare to hear the verdict, pretty much like the rest of the country and the world. there will be a response from the president as soon as that verdict is read later this afternoon. so just to give you a bit of context as to what is happening in the white house. you're seeing live pictures there of the white house anticipating that verdict like the rest of the country. charles torque rachel's point about the defense argument here and the overwhelming evidence that was presented as had been mentioned, the side of the 37 witnesses that the prosecution had called, as opposed to the eight called by the defense attorney. what do you make of the way this

played out in terms of the evidence put forward and the argument made by the defense about the risks that the officers like derek chauvin and others felt by the mere presence of crowd? >> well, i think that's beating a dead horse, quite frankly. i think at this point we've heard more than enough about these situations how difficult law enforcement, their job is, and how tough of a time they have. the problem with that is that at the same time we've heard those arguments made case after case after case, we have also seen repeated instances of other people of other races, defendants and suspects of other races, who are not treated with the same regard, despite posing greater threats, whether they're armed, whether they're resisting in much more violent fashion that george floyd was even capable of, whether they are aggressors toward police. we have seen them de-escalate situations, act without using

different levels of force, without deadly force. so using those defenses in a case like this at this point, we have heard that before. we are seen that before and it doesn't hold. it doesn't hold it's just that difficult for police officers to act with restraint and proper decorum when it comes to communities of color, and then watch and turn and see them do so on video when it comes to members of other ethnic groups. that simply doesn't work the same way. so when i heard those things from the defense counsel in this case, i was not convinced that was going to per suede the jury. this was such an extreme aberration, it was such a continuance of the type of state-sanctioned violence we have seen against black people in america, i did not believe people were going to buy it, because they were rooted in a load of old racial tropeses and stereotypes. >> would we be here if there was not videotape of what happened to george floyd, a recording of

what happened to george floyd? >> we would not. that's exactly why i said this is our basement floor, not our ceiling. it shouldn't take a video. it shouldn't have to occur in the middle of the day on camera in front of the entire world with this being such a blatant disregard for human african-american life in order for us to get here. until we're at the point where it doesn't take a video to believe that these things happen to black people in america, we have to understand how much -- we wouldn't be here butt for the video. let's be clear about this. even though this was a video, there are literally right now millions of americans that are on pins and needles, because we do not necessarily trust that in every instance the justice system is going to do what it should, because we have had video before, and we have had our days in court before, and they haven't always worked out well for us. so the fact there's video in

this case is what's wrote it to america's forefront in terms of our consciousness, but that does not mean we are turning the corner and entering a new day. we have to understand there is not always going to be video. that should not make anyone less entitled to justice, and it's important that we understand that. >> stay with me, i want to bring into the conversation cedric alexander, law enforcement analyst, also former member of president obama's task force on 21st century policing. thank you, sir, for joining us. people having using this express as well as mr. coleman there, that the country is on pins and needles, as this verdict is being read. i'm thinking of all the preparations that have been made around the country, and i want to get your thoughts on where you think we are collectively right now as a nation, 30 minutes away from the jury return to go that courtroom.

>> well, where we are as a nation collectively we're very divided. we've been divided for some time. we were divided before this case. it's just further divided us as a nation. as we all wait for this verdict that is about to come down in an hour or so, it's really going to be the continues struggle. it is not going to be the end. what we have to consider and take into consideration is that these types of events have been going on for a very long time in this country. they're historic, these types of events. black men, black women, brown men, brown women, people of color have been subjected to the type of abuse they've been subjected to, that's created a great deal of distress and discomfort for people of color in this country. whatever the verdict may happen to be, we'll have to keep our foot on the gas, we have to continue to move forward for change around policing, because

we're at a place right now, this is not just about reform, this is not just about reorganizing or reorganizing police, this is about how we're going to define policing in this country, because we've got to define public safety very differently from what we know now. poor economics, people who cannot feed themselves, people who have poorhousing, people suffering with lead poisoning, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, these are problematic. these are the type of events that lead to the intersection between police in which they're ill trained and unprepared for, that lead to a lot of these events in this country. we're at a place where we have to do something different regardless of what the verdict is. if it's a verdict of guilty, don't high-five, let's get to work. if it's a verdict of not guilty, it also means that we've got to get to work.

so i think at this point, at this very moment we're at this crossroads in american history where policing and community is going to have to find a way to worn through these issues. these issues are very critical to the safety of not only the local communities, about you to our nation at large. >> cedric, we have about 30 seconds. i want to ask your final thought about policing. will this moment make a difference for how police interact with communities of color going forward? >> not by itself, it won't. in and of itself, policing is not going to make a difference. this is going to take people. it's going to take to decide think to do something different. we respect that, but we cannot

expect them to do it by themselves. it doesn't systemically belong to them before itself. it belongs to a larger problematic system. >> thank you very much, sir. i appreciate that. my thanks to everyone who joined our special coverage. the jury is about to deliver a verdict. our breaking coverage continues with "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace right now. hi, everyone, it's 4:00 in the east. the jury has reached a verdict in the murder trial of derek chauvin less than 24 hours after taking up the case, 11 hours of deliberation by the jury in all. that verdict will be read out in court sometimes between 4:30 and 5:00 eastern time. the charges up for debate by this jury lund second-degree unintentional murder, which carries a maximum sentence of 40 years. third-degree murder, the max mustn't sentence of 25 years, and second-degree manslaughter with a maximum sente