voices." "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. good evening, everyone. we begin "the reidout" tonight with breaking news in the fight against the covid pandemic. after a federal panel recommended that the u.s. resume use of the one-shot johnson & johnson vaccine, the cdc, officially, lifted the pause, just minutes ago. that panel is also advising the company to add a warning label about the risk of blood clots, which have been, remind you, exceedingly rare. it comes after president biden surpassed his goal of vaccinating 200 million americans, reaching that milestone well before his 100th day in office, which comes next week. but today marks the anniversary of another moment in covid history. one that will, forever, define the former-president's legacy for generations to come. now, it is still hard to believe that this really happened, one year ago today.

>> supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it's ultra-violet or just very powerful light. and then, i said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do, either through the skin or in some other way. and then, i see the disinfectant. that knocks it out in a minute. one minute. and is there a way we can do something like that? by injection, inside. or -- or almost a cleaning. >> needless to say, anyone over the age of 6, with a modicum of common sense knows that could kill you! you do not drink bleach. but trump's brand of thinking has prevailed among many republicans, even after the arrival of a vaccine. take senator ron johnson, for example. no, please, take him. in a radio interview, yesterday, he needlessly stoked fear of the vaccine and actively discouraged mass immunization.

>> the science tells us that vaccines are 95% effective. so, if you have a vaccine, quite honestly, what do you care if your neighbor has one or not? why is this big push to make sure everybody gets the vaccine? and it -- to the point where you better impose it, you are going to shame people. you are going to -- you are going to force them to carry a card to prove that they've been vaccinated so they can participate in society. i am getting highly suspicious of what's happening here. >> i mean, why vaccinate everybody for polio? i mean -- uh. well, to answer's ron johnson's frankly dumb question, the vast majority need to be vaccinated to return to normality. not the kind they seem to be pushing by exposing more and more people to covid at their superspreader events. here is how dr. anthony fauci responded to johnson today. >> well, there is a pretty good reason we have 567,000 people

who have died, so far, in this country from this disease. that is a really, really good reason to get people vaccinated with a vaccine, that you have shown is highly efficacious and quite safe. >> yet, republicans are the most vaccine resistant, of any-demographic group, thanks to the former president who was unwilling to promote it to his supporters. according to "politico," even trump's former aides believe his record on the vaccine was a failure. it's no coincidence that, according to an analysis by "the new york times," those anti-vaxxers, are most concentrated in the counties that trump won in 2020. in fact, republicans to date are eight-times more likely than democrats to say they will likely never get vaccinated. that's 43% of republicans according to a recent monmouth poll. now, the vaccine-resistant trump crowd is becoming a problem for the rest of us. that's because the country is fast approaching a tipping point

when vaccine hesitancy will become the biggest hurdle to achieving herd immunity. it raises the scary prospect that we may be stuck living alongside a bloc of the population that remains permanently vulnerable to covid. that means the virus will still have the opportunity to spread and to mutate. and the more the virus mutates, the faster that we'll have to roll out new vaccines. to outrun the variants. so, after a while, so-called vaccine hesitancy might be better described as reckless endangerment. and given the threat that those people represent to the community at large, when does their negligence become a liability? joining me now is dr. vin gupta, critical care pulmonologist. and you know, dr. gupta, this is the thing that scares me. that we will be never out of the pandemic. because you will have a good, you know, 25, 30, maybe even 40% of the population because they are of a certain ideology, that refuse to get vaccinated. refuse to wear masks.

refuse to do anything to stop covid. and then, we have sort of the new alien from aliens. is that what we are looking at? >> very possible. good evening, joy. very possibly. you know, scarcity and vulnerability have been sort of the overarching message of the last three months. these are vaccines that are going to keep you out of the hospital to a vulnerable population. and oh by the way, it's scarce so the second you get it and get the first vaccine available. now, we are battling perception, versus reality. the reality here is that the johnson & johnson vaccine is extremely effective. almost as effective as -- as pfizer and moderna based on how you define effectiveness. nearly 100%, in my view. but the perception here is the thing we really need to be honest about. we know these rare-side effects afflicting maybe younger-middle aged women are exceptionally rare. but joy, that's not the perception out there. i have talked to young people across the country.

that's not how they think of it. so, we can constantly beat a drum and say, yes, your risk is exceptionally low. but they do not perceive that way which is why i will say there is going to be some brand consumerism at play. where people recognize there is a vaccine glut and not a scarcity. and if this is the rate-limiting step to reach people, well i am scared about the cloth and we need to pivot. we need to say, well, here is moderna or pfizer. individual-level guidance to these people that are scared about this specific issue is going to be vital. understand their fears and address them, head on. >> i mean, this is the problem. so we now have, charlie, it is moms with kids who are now among sort of the biggest groups of people who are refusing to get vaccinated. that's scary because they also have kids they are responsible for. you also have people who are not only scaring people about johnson & johnson which, unfortunately, that's the vaccine that is easiest to give to rural populations. it doesn't have to be really cold. you can actually use it for younger people who may not come

back for their second vaccine. so it's unfortunate that you have this one vaccine that now has a bad rep when it's actually very efficacious, particularly for younger and hard-to-reach populations. but let me play someone you know very well. this is what ron johnson, supposedly, a responsible-public official, did on the radio. he played -- i don't have it to play but he basically went on the radio. >> i heard. >> and said why should anybody get vaccinated? why should -- you know, why -- why not -- why do you have to get vaccinated? why do you care if your neighbor does? polio vaccine. i mean, can you explain what is going on? he is still doubling down on saying this is a good idea for him to push that kind of anti-vax idea. >> i can't really explain it. i mean, ron johnson has-- i mean, you have, it's interesting bookend with what happened a year ago, today. the -- the -- the ignorance, the recklessness, the disregard for science. and the -- and the lack of human

compassion. because, you ask the question why should you care if your neighbor gets vaccinated? well, because in our society, we care about our neighbors. we care that our neighbors don't get sick, they don't die, that they don't infect our other neighbors. this is why we are doing this. this is how we get back to life. this is how we beat the pandemic. by getting to herd immunity. and here, you have ron johnson in that whole interview putting on this tinfoil hat of conspiracy. i'm very, suspicious and i don't want to give up freedom. what a distortion of the idea of freedom that we don't care about the health and safety of our neighbors. but as you point out, comments like this will simply just add to the resistance and the denialism about the vaccination. and, you know, i mean, that -- we are still having public officials behaving this way, after 570,000 americans have died is stunning, to me.

>> yeah. this is what he said. it's a legitimate question, as to whether people at very low risk of suffering serious illness from covid should be encouraged to take a vaccine that is being administered. yeah, it's been fully tested, fully approved. >> sure. >> i am going to presume he's not an idiot. let me -- well, maybe i shouldn't presume that. i just want to play for our audience. just to give you -- just to let's get back to reality. this is how scary covid is. covid, in india, is out of control. sky news did a piece on it. let's play a bit of it. >> reporter: the emergency room of one of delhi's biggest hospitals. they are constantly having to move out the dead to make way for more. and most of those in this room are dying. and they haven't been admitted, yet, to the hospital. the doctors are simply overwhelmed. scrambling for oxygen and reduced to begging for help on social media. india set a worldwide record nobody wants. for a second day running, it

topped the number of global-daily coronavirus cases. they are shocked and ashamed at how the country's health-care system is all but breaking. >> this is like our dim future. in brazil, they are running out of intubation drugs, having to intubate people without sedatives, which are terrifying. dr. gupta, is this what we now need to move to? to show people this horrifying potential truth if we don't get this damn thing under control? >> yes, joy. i'm glad you -- thank you for showing that clip. i -- i don't think people realize, because the warm weather's here. that there is -- there could be a false illusion of normalcy, by july 4th. where we're not really normal. 50 to 60% of the population may have received the vaccine. the rest, for whatever reason, has yet or will choose not to or is not yet eligible. that's a very dangerous situation, joy. because, you know what happens, come the fall/winter, when respiratory viruses like to spread again? they like cold, dry air. that's where we will see what's happening right now in india and

brazil, that's where we could potentially see in this case, fourth, fifth surge. we do not want to fall into a false sense of complacency. so, absolutely, correct. and if i can quickly say, this notion, i know we talk about it as vaccine passports. but i talk to -- i talk to e ti. they are -- they're crushed under the weight of the mitigation efforts we have in place for them right now. distancing. indoor-capacity limits. you know the quickest way to normalize their operations to 100%? it's actually showing -- it's allowing normalcy to happen through the concept of vaccine proof. just like colleges and universities, by the way. >> yes, exactly. and charlie, you know, you and i have both been in the talk-radio business. a lot of it is performative. this woman who has this show, it's a performance to some extent. but at a certain point, these are the people who have influence. and this woman, inviting people on like ron johnson to basically

lie and make up crazy-conspiracy theories, do you have an idea how we can get to those people? because at a certain point, they are threatening all our health and our our lives. >> that's the problem. we have created this alternative-reality silo. and you have talked to hosts like vicki who was the host of that show, who is pushing ron johnson to embrace these various conspiracy theories and you have to find a way to break through. so, what is going to have to happen is that other trusted voices in places like wisconsin, need to step up and say, whoa. no. this is wrong. what ron johnson is saying is incorrect. young people are still vulnerable. we are not through this. it is not a violation of your freedom, that you have to have a certification of vaccine. you know, has he been around parents of school-aged children? know what college they are doing? in order to go to school, any public school in the state of wisconsin, you have to have all kinds of vaccinations.

so it's this weird -- it's this weird tribalism that has taken place. tribalism, compounded by this recklessness. and as i was listening to johnson, i'm thinking, you know what? the republican party's problem is no longer just donald trump. it's all that he has unleashed, and this legacy of anti-silence -- anti-science recklessness, you are still hearing from people like ron johnson. >> it's dangerous. no one has the right to give someone else covid. covid can kill people. you do not have the right to spread deadly disease. that is reckless endangerment. dr. vin gupta, charlie sykes. next. gwen karr, the mother of eric garner, joins me next. plus. you were told that mr. floyd died because his heart was too big. and the truth of the matter is that the reason george floyd is dead is because mr. chauvin's heart was too small. >> the remarkable work of the

prosecution-dream team in the derek chauvin murder trial. and how they managed to crack the blue wall of silence. plus, what you might've missed in a bananas week in politics. including, ted cancun cruz lying act supreme-court packing. and josh hawley voting against an anti-asian hate crimes bill. "the reidout" continues, after this. after this it comes to autism, finding the right words can be tough. finding understanding doesn't have to be. we can create a kinder, more inclusive world for the millions of people on the autism spectrum. go to autismspeaks.org. during photosynthesis, plants convert solar energy into chemical energy, cleaning the oxygen we breathe. plants clean the air. when applied to stained textiles, plant-based surfactants like the ones in seventh generation detergent trap stains at the molecular level and flush them away. plant-based detergents clean your clothes.

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the prosecution of derek chauvin was unique from the very start. when minnesota governor tim walz announced the county prosecutor would not take the lead in the prosecutions related to the killing of george floyd. it was an extremely rare move. it followed a flood of criticism from those who believe the county prosecutor, hennepin county attorney, mike freeman, was part of the broken system. and so, in came minnesota attorney general keith ellison. a civil rights attorney and

former congressman who's been in this fight for almost his entire career. now, you didn't often see ellison in the courtroom. you didn't hear from him, either. but, there he was, most days, inside the courtroom. his fingerprints all over the prosecution. from weighing in on jury selection to preparing witnesses. even invite gwen karr, the mother of eric garner, to join the team's daily meetings. knowing the case wasn't a fight just for the floyd family but for all the black families who lost loved ones and never got a day in court. this is what ellison, who called the prosecution a team of all michael jordans, had to say about his pivotal victory. >> i would not call today's verdict justice, however, because justice implies true restoration. but it is accountability, which is the first step towards justice. >> now, of course, this seemed like an open-and-shut case, with evidence that literally included a video showing the murder. but we also know that the

justice system is tilted against black people. and by design. the prosecutors knew exactly what they were up against. laying out a case that will surely be studied, analyzed, and emulated for decades to come. with the very impactful and memorable jerry blackwell reminding jurors, in his very last line, that it wasn't george floyd's heart that killed him. it was his killer's. >> you were told, for example, that mr. floyd died -- that mr. floyd died because his heart was too big. you heard that testimony. and the truth of the matter is that the reason george floyd is dead is because mr. chauvin's heart was too small. >> joining me now is paul butler, georgetown law professor and former federal prosecutor. and justice correspondent for the nation. and i just want to take a moment to talk about this team, paul. i -- i sort of was semi-obsessed with prosecutor blackwell, who did this for free, by the way.

he is a beekeeper, which is my favorite piece of news about him. and just a little note about him. last june, blackwell, who is actually a defense attorney, won a posthumous pardon for a black service worker wrongly convicted of rape in 1920 months after three of his colleagues were lynched as a result of the false accusations. in duluth despite the lack of physical evidence and faulty i.d. he also is licensed in multiple states. this was a great guy but he was just one of many. these were all really incredible prosecutors. who knew how to tell a story, to be simple. i mean, give me your assessment of this team. >> joy, this prosecution will be studied as a playbook for how to convict a police officer. they responded to the concern that some jurors might have had about compliance. that, if mr. floyd had just gotten into the squad car, he would still be alive. they answered that with eyewitnesses and videotape.

it certainly helped that they sponsored a parade of good cops to contrast what the bad cop, who is on trial. >> yeah, you know, elie, you are a defense attorney. so, this is a chance for you to -- rarely maybe praise prosecutors in this case because what you had was this combination of really good prosecutors. really good witnesses. i mean, the witnesses were excellent. they were properly prepared. they were compelling. but also, cops. because you don't see cops testify against other cops. there -- i am thinking about this buffalo police officer who tried to intervene with one of the fellow officers committed police brutality and she ended up losing her pension. she just got it back. that's normally the attitude is don't get involved. what do you make of the police involvement in terms of this conviction? >> it comes to the whole playbook, right? and this is -- this is my problem with how this trial went down. it was a great victory but this playbook is not repeatable. right? like, justice requires repetition. i got to know. you know, we talked about -- my

kids online. like, you know my kid knows if he misses his -- there is going to be justice in that, that switch is not coming in 20 minutes. like he knows that. it happens every night. but this situation, we had to bring -- we had to bring so much to bear to get this one cop convicted of this one murder. i don't know that what ellison put together is repeatable because let -- let's give ellison all credit here. it's like ellison looked at like marcia clarke and chris darden and was like, i ain't going out like that. right? he just was -- that's not -- he brought the a team, b team, the c team. as you pointed out, he brought in defense attorneys. he had neil, former acting solicitor general of the united states. so, like, they brought everything to bear. are they going to do that for daunte wright? is that what's going to happen with -- with ma'khia bryant's case? is it going to happen, over and over and over again? does it need to happen over and over and over, again, to -- to

bring these cops accountable? because if this is what it takes, if this is the mountain that we have to climb to get one level of accountability. i just don't know how repeatable that is. >> and, paul, it's an excellent question because i wonder. i mean, you -- you even had gwen karr. is that going to happen even for the other three cops? right? so now, there is a sentencing that is going to happen in june. then, those cops got to make some decisions. if they decide to go to trial in august, can this even be repeated for them, for their trials? >> so, joy, chauvin's defense went old school. they tried to put the victim, george floyd, on trial. that was an epic fail. the prosecutors were proactive. so, we saw video of mr. floyd joking around in the store. and they put on eyewitnesses who testified, very emotionally, about mr. floyd's agonizing death. they had mr. floyd's partner talk about their shared struggle with addiction, in a way that

really evoked sympathy. it's a shame that, in 2021, black victims of police violence still have to be humanized but that's what it takes to hold officers accountable and i think it is a lesson that will apply in many other prosecutions. >> well, it will but i think you make a very good point. it's likely the -- the result won't be this, right? because, you know, the other cases, they could theoretically plead out. and other cases you are talking about, ma'khia bryant, et cetera, are cases of split-second decision, which jurors normally like to side with cops on. >> absolutely. i mean, the -- the -- the reality is that george floyd, unfortunately, died over an agonizing-long period of time. way -- much -- you know, so long that people could really kind of get into his brain, and get into his agony. what happens to most of us. what happens most the times when cops kill black people is that, that agony happens too quickly for the camera to pick it up. when you think about daunte wright. we didn't get to see his face for -- for ten minutes as he

cried out in pain. and hoping that he would, somehow, live. we didn't get to see that because it happened so quick. and -- and -- and that -- when -- when you don't have -- i hate to say it like this. but it's like, when you don't have black on display, when they haven't ripped it out of us like that, then it's easier for the predominantly white criminal justice system to just ignore it and that is what i fear will happen. >> yeah. i think it is -- it is one that we have to grapple with, paul. you know, it is easy to throw derek chauvin overboard and say that's the bad cop. all the rest are good cops and just sort of brush off all the other cases. i already saw the yeah-buts. the yeah-buts were already there with daunte wright. so, i -- i do worry that this will become the case that is sort of the exception, that

re -- reintroduces the rule. that 99% of police are just going to get away with killing black people going forward. >> i think that's right, joy. but i think the forthcoming prosecution of the three officers for aiding and abetting chauvin could impact policing, even more than chauvin's conviction. too often, when officers see another officer crossing the line, they don't stop them. cops enforce the the law against black and brown people but not against their fellow officers. if these three officers are convicted, they face the same-40-year sentence as chauvin. that would send a strong message to other officers about the duty to intervene, when they see a cop abusing his or her badge. >> yeah. that would be a big deal. we will definitely keep an eye on it. paul butler. see, i wasn't going to ask about your kids but you brought 'em up. it's my favorite thing about you. your stories about your kids are amazing. have a great weekend, guys. still ahead. grieving mothers are generating momentum in the push for police accountability. and we will talk with one of

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♪ because it's time. ♪ ♪ yeah. ♪ ♪ time for grilled cheese. ♪ the first time i met gwen karr, it was in baltimore. at an event reverend al sharpton held supporting the family of freddy gray. he was killed by police who tossed him, unshackled into the back of a police van, after he

committed the crime of looking at cops the wrong way. karr, who has become a senior member of a sorority, that no one ever wanted to join. mothers of the dead, black children. the mothers of the whose sons as died at the hand of police or wanna bes. well, karr is the mother of eric garner, whose final, desperate words before police choked him to death in staten island, new york, in 2014, were also the last desperate words of george floyd in minnesota, last -- on may 24th. i can't breathe. so, she has been there for george floyd's family, too. now, i have spent a lot of my time as a journalist talking to grieving mothers, who become known in a sort of journalistic shorthand as the mother of, the mother of trayvon martin. the mother of tamir rice. the mother of walter scott. the mother of michael brown

or -- or marley graham or sandra bland or breonna taylor. the mother of daunte wright. and people ask me, sometimes, if we, black journalists, take these stories personally. and the answer is, yeah, we do. because each of us knows that, at any time, our husbands, our sons, our daughters, could be the next black lives matter hashtag just for running into the wrong cop on the wrong day in a car the cop thinks is too nice for a black person to be driving or the tint's too dark. or really, just for nothing at all. so, yeah, it's personal. when those guilty verdicts were read out by the judge against derek chauvin, something i haven't heard in more than a decade, of doing this job. it was a profound moment. a fundamental change in more than a century of unrighted, officially sanctioned wrongs against black people. when george floyd was dying, he called out for his mama, who like george floyd, is dead and gone. but the mamas left behind are speaking. and crying out for justice. and joining me now is gwen karr.

and ms. karr, it's always a privilege to talk to you. and i just want to give you an opportunity because you have been so supportive of george floyd's family. to tell me how it felt when you heard the words guilty against derek chauvin? >> well, well, thank you, joy, for having me. but, when i first heard it, i was home. and watching the judge open the envelope. and when he start reading the charges, when he read the -- the most, you know, severe of the charges, first. and it was guilty. i was -- i was just so elated. i was relieved because we never know how these cases are going to turn out. we have had so many disappointments. so, i was just on edge. although, we all seen, blatantly, that george -- george floyd was murdered. he was suffering. the knee was on his neck for

over-nine minutes. but look at my son's death. they seen them choking him to death and he was hollering, i can't breathe, 11 times, and the officer still decided to take his life. just like george floyd. he decided to take george's life, even though george begged for his life and pleaded for his mother. so, i was really, really pleased. it was like mixed emotions, really. >> yeah. i'm sure. i mean, you -- and this was the -- the -- the connections that you have had to these tragedies, as you said. your son cried out, i can't breathe, as you said, 11 times. and there was no justice for you. you have a relationship to lieutenant nazario, who knew eric garner, knew your son. and then, he gets pulled over and harassed and is now traumatized for what happened to him in virginia. >> yeah. >> how -- how do you -- i mean, i know i have talked with you and, you know, dialo's mom.

but share, with us, how do you, as a mom, deal with the -- the retraumatization of each of these -- these deaths at the hands of police? >> you know, joy, it's hard, because every time you hear of another death, it just puts another hole in your heart. it's just, like, re-trauma -- traumatizing you, again. but the only thing that you can do is try to comfort these mothers. try to embrace and empower these mothers. and that's part of the therapy, to try to get the mothers, from doing something that could hurt themselves or doing something desperate. we, as mothers, have to come together. and we got to fight this thing. we have to get law and legislations on this. and i say even -- because i have had laws passed -- but it's no good, unless the laws are enforced. >> and you were part of the -- the prosecution team. and you were helping out.

what did you do? what was your role? in the -- in the george floyd murder -- i mean, the -- the chauvin trial. >> oh. well, i've been there. we were actually in the courtroom. myself, reverend sharpton, ray mcguire, who is running for mayor in new york. we were actually -- oh yeah, we had governor patterson there, also. and we were there. we were analyzing what was going on, at the time. you know, looking at the witness that was up there on the stand. talking to the family. listening to, you know, what they had to say. and they -- and they had mixed emotions. sometime, they were okay. and sometime, some of the family would just break down. just break down and cry. >> and i have seen you comfort other families, including freddy gray's family. and i just want to play for you. blayne alexander, one of our reporters spoke with some hbcu students about how this trial

has -- and the verdict impacted them. take a look at this for just a moment, please. >> so, you were, what? 13 years old? when trayvon martin was killed. so you have been watching a number of these trials, almost in rapid succession, your entire childhood. >> i am identifying that because he looks like me. and then, you keep going on and as i age, so do the victims. you give mike brown, eric garner, as i get older, so do the victims. again, it's this cycle of when am i next? >> we have to deal with the fact that after one killer is brought to, what people will call justice, there is another police officer who murders and 15-year-old, young girl, that same day. >> they sound like my kids. and -- and, ms. karr, you know, and it -- it is so unfortunate because you did not choose to be in this sorority of women, these mothers of the movement. and yet, here you are. and because people do look to you.

because, you know, you -- you have been so strong and so vocal. what should we say to our children about what the derek-chauvin verdict means? what does it mean to you? what does it mean to our -- our kids? >> well, it means that they made a just decision, this time. but there are so many others out there, who never got justice. who never got a day in court. and we have to say, we still have to stay focused. we have to stay alert. we can't say that, just because we got one-guilty verdict, it's time to rest. it's no time to rest. we still have to stay on our ps and qs. and as we speak now, myself and members, on our way to north carolina, the other murder, the son and the father in the car. myself and kirsten john foy is on our way down there now to -- to comfort the family. >> gwen karr, you are a great

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ted cruz reid outabsolute worst candidate and occasionally senator from texas when he is not running off to cancun to abandon constituents in a time of need. in his ongoing quest to revise history, like when he pretended donald trump was his friend despite trump calling his wife ugly and saying his father killed jfk. well, he had the temerity to say this about proposals from some democrat lawmakers to expand the supreme court. >> you didn't see republicans, when we had control of the senate, try to rig the game. you didn't see us try to pack the court. >> except, that we totally did

see you rig the game, remember 2016? republicans infamously refused to consider president barack obama's supreme court nominee, merrick garland. and cruz, himself, blocking any potential hillary clinton nominees if she became president, for years. of course, lying ted only said that when he thought the guy who gave him that nickname was gonna lose. but wait, there's more. the senator who apparently, every-other member of congress hates, according to john boehner, also led the charge to put amy coney barrett weeks before arguing the opposite in 2016. he also argued it was necessary to confirm her to resolve any cases, involving the election. with me now, juanita tolliver, democratic strategist. and tiffany cross, host of msnbc's "the cross connection."

what do you think of ted's reason? >> a bold-faced lie. he is out here lying through his teeth trying to revise the reality that the gop invented the playbook for packing the courts. and now, they are trying to backtrack on that? and i think everybody sees through that for what it is, because he got trolled online for it. and that's not gonna stop. what else is out here right now, though, is the fact that democrats are being called upon to match the same energy that the gop had back in 2016. back in 2020 when they were limiting the court, obstructing nominees, and then rushing nominees. and so, i think we are going to see more progressives push for democrats to match that energy to expand the courts, especially with the decisions that they are making. we know these decisions will have generations-long impact. and i think, seeing the -- the decision today about allowing minors to be subject to life imprisonment without parole. one could argue that decision only came down because comey barrett and because kavanaugh are on the court. so i think you will see pressure

mount for democrats to respond to that. >> and how ironic, that kavanaugh, who wanted people to not judge what he was doing in high school, which allegedly was involving sexually harassing and maybe worse, a fellow student. you know, tiffany, speaking of senators who are terrible, josh hawley decided that the anti-asian hate crimes bill was no bueno. your thoughts? he was the only one. >> exactly. it's sad that he was the only, the sole-no vote on this anti-hate bill. let me just say, joy, we are going to be talking to senator mazie hirono tomorrow on "the cross connection". i am really excited to hear her thoughts but, you know, it's really interesting that this violent insurrectionist sympathizer does not think this bill rises to the occasion to protect the -- the -- the aapi community from the rise in hate crimes that we have seen. i just want to, really quickly, say, though, about the supreme court. it's important to remember that the mexican vacation spot expert ted cruz only weighed in on this

because senator ed markey and congressman jerrold nadler introduced a bill to expand the courts and that's important, joy, as you know, because think how many cases could be landing in the supreme court. we have got voting rights, policing issues, the ability for presidents to lie on twitter. all of these things matter on capitol hill right now. >> absolutely. let's move along to lebron james who -- he -- he -- he got donald trump to come out of hiding and attack him. trying to say that lebron james is being racist and divisive, which is funny, coming from the man that lebron famously called you bum because he tweeted about people being killed by police. he, like every other human being, particularly african-americans in the country, feel like maybe that shouldn't be done. what do you make of the attempts to try to come for lebron, who has actually become heroic in terms of voting rights, et cetera? juanita, your thoughts? >> who cares what trump has to say?

he is a nonfactor in all of this. and honestly, what lebron was reflecting was the deep pain, the deep frustration, the deep anger that a lot of people are experiencing right now. especially, when black people are being killed by police every day. so, continue to dismiss trump as the bum that he is. because that's all that's happening. it's just noise that doesn't need any attention. >> speaking of bums, matt gaetz. begging for money. he says he wants to run some ads to try to help himself. there is an interesting piece in "propublica" that talks about the fact all of these far-right figures like matt gaetz, like marjorie taylor greene, et cetera, josh hawley. they all sort of go out and make it seem like every time there is a controversy, they are raising tons of money. but it's not really clear that that's happening. these organizations, that are gleaning money from, you know, sometimes in small donations from, you know, republican donors. a lot of the time, they are keeping most of the money. and the fundraising isn't really real. it's kind of smoke and mirrors. do you think that we, in the media -- you wrote a great book, "say it louder," tiffany cross,

about the media. do we need to maybe take a step back before touting everything crazy they do is major fundraising? because sometimes, it's really not true. >> yeah, i completely agree, joy. i mean, this is something where we have a responsibility to peel away the headline and get substance of what is happening. let me just say about this whole matt gaetz thing, number one, every time i get the opportunity to remind people of how you dragged him all across the a.m. joy back in the day over his stance on the nra, people should google it, it is worth a watch. but also we have to remember he is the accused of sex trafficking a 17-year-old girl. so when you are asking people to contribute to your defense for such a heinous crime, it makes you wonder what kind of weird, creepy white guy party is this where they defend accused pedophiles like roy moore, where they defend accused wife beaters like some of the speech writers from the trump administration, and racists like marjorie taylor greene. it is a weird thing happening in

the gop. honestly, it has been the only republican party i have known. i think it is just more public now. >> let's not forget trump himself, who still has a case coming at him for alleged sexual assault inside a department store. let's talk about tucker carlson. i want both of you to get the chance to weigh in on this because the thing that's happened that the republican party has done that i think is sort of helpful, let's just be open, you have tucker carlson who now has embraced replacement theory. he didn't literally say, "jews will not replace us" which is what replacement folks said in charlottesville, but he said, you're trying to replace us. he said that openly on his show. question to both of you, ignore it, deal with it? how do we deal with the fact it is becoming, oh, because ron johnson, who is an elected official, also reflected that same idea? juanita and then -- >> i think the first response, joy, is call it out. have advocates call it out and put as much pressure as possible on fox news to get someone like him off of the air for spreading

these lies and disgusting conspiracy theories. he has no place in media. he should not have a megaphone to spread these things, and so i think it is important to call it out and be on the record calling it out and confront it directly. >> tiffany? >> yeah, so i agree with my sister, juanita toliver, definitely. but i will say, you know, all three of us on this screen know what it is like when something happens in our community and then all of the talking points are, "where are their fathers" and "the community has to rally around and teach these kids how to act." guess what, maga? that's your problem. you call out these idiots who blacks in intellect and makes up for it in racism. you call it out. i don't know how to unracist a racist, that's a problem for somebody else and i don't have any interest in engaging these people. i don't have this call to make people see the light. i'm not trying to educate the uninformed and the woefully ignorant. i'm trying to inform and inspire

the uninspired. i think it is their problem and i could care less about the trash channel, that trash man or that trash party. >> amen. listen, we are not going to raise people who have already been raised by somebody, that somebody raised them. juanita and tiffany are sticking around because they are clearly all warmed up to play "who won the week," and that is next. stay with us. t is next. stay with us

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it is friday, thank yo jesus, which means it is time to play our favorite game, "who won the week." juanita toliver, who won the week? >> our queen, stacey abram, won the week for me, right. the way she read senator john kennedy for fill at the senate judiciary committee hearing this week was everything, and it was the most delicate of reads because what he tried to do in setting her up for a gotcha was

completely crass, like she wouldn't have a enumerated list of all of the ways the georgia voting bill was racist, like she wouldn't show up unprepared like he would for a hearing. i give her flowers today and every day. >> he tucked his dignity when it was over. he just said, let me take my dignity, go ahead and take this. he took his dignity and had to go home. she snatched his soul out of his body, and he was sitting there like, you know, i don't have a soul at this moment so i will go ahead and throw it back to you, to the chairman. go ahead and take over. tiffany cross, can you beat that, who won the week? >> i think i can. i think i can. look, we lost the giant in the hip-hop industry. he won the week for me. he was the one who put the sadden on your under garments. he produced for prince, dr. dre and others. i love this man. he was the one that introduced us to tupac. he was first to give us tupac ice, i still all of the lyrics to the same songs. i'm so sorry to see him go.

my brother and i were reminiscing about him earlier before i was on the show and i said, man, the humpty dance, it was like the soundtrack to my adult an teenage years. >> i feel like my whole life -- it was so sad. stop what you are doing, i'm about to ruin the image and sound. >> i love funny. >> hey. y'all making money. oh, my god. i loved him so much. that was a really sad one today. so my "who won the week" is sort of obvious from what i have been talking about today. i had to say that the floyd family won the week. it is so hard to get justice when it comes to police killing any one of us. it never happens, y'all. you know this. i know this. i have been doing this, you know, going back to 2006. i have never seen that extent of a verdict against a police officer for killing anybody black. it never happens. so i had to say that the floyd family won the week.

god bless them. wishing them peace. his little daughter gianna, there's an interview with her this weekend that's going to air. >> yes. >> beautiful little girl. god bless them. they won the week. juanita toliver, tiffany cross. don't forget to watch "the cross connection" tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern. her guest will be auntie marcia budd who will be here. "all in" with chris hayes starts now. tonight on "all in". >> i am not going to be voting for any election integrity bills from this point forward. >> election madness in arizona. the state senate auditing the 2020 results from maricopa county as a republican kills a bill to restrict voting because the bill doesn't restrict voting enough. >> the reason i'm voting "no" on this bill is because i have given my commitment to my constituents that we will fix all election integrity. then, the justicetm