if it's thursday, president biden bets big on big government. and republicans are left with a big question of how to push back against popular proposals. plus, this hour formal talks on police reform are beginning in congress. we will talk to a bipartisan pair of lawmakers who hope to be part of the small group tackling the issue as president biden challenges congress to pass a bill by the anniversary of george floyd's death. and later, the investigation into rudy giuliani. it takes high-level approval

from main justice to even execute a search of someone like rudy giuliani or even ask for the search, so what could that tell us about what the feds already know? welcome to thursday. it is "meet the press daily." i'm chuck todd. today is president biden's 100th day in office. i hope you bought the hallmark card to note the holiday. it's a day after he proclaimed the era of big government being over, that era is not over. >> my fellow americans, trickle down, trickle-down economics has never worked and it's time to grow the economy from the bottom and middle out. there's a broad consensus from left, right and center, and they agree what i'm proposing will

help create millions of jobs and help create historic growth. >> president biden and the entire democratic party is making a big bet that americans want a more active government and will keep wanting a more active government even as the pandemic fades. because you know what, americans have been telling us that they do want exactly that, a more active government. take a look at our latest nbc poll. 55% of americans say the government should do more to solve the country's problems. this is a question, by the way, we've asked for decades. and it fluctuates back and forth, but right now it's been consistently in the mid-50s and the support across almost all demographics except for one, and it is republicans. what is noteworthy about these numbers is they've been unchanged for the last five years, meaning they've encampused the trump era. like any good politician, president biden is following what is popular. right now going big, keeping government active, it is popular. by the way, you just had a

previous president who started talking up the idea of getting government more involved. at least this current republican party left who are they and what do they do? after all, former president trump encouraged this mindset. he brought out the era of big government and brought in voters to the republican party with it. don't touch medicare and social security, remember all of that? it makes these popular and populous proposals a bit more difficult for the trump wing of the gop these days to fight back against it. are they really going to play the deficit card? but there are some in the republican party who are still grounded or essentially were raised in the pre-trump era, where increased government spending was a political no-no. the official republican response last night, south carolina republican tim scott, hit at the president's spending proposals as a liberal wish list. felt like sort of the romney days of the republican party or bush days. but at the same time there's also some in the republican party who see what he wants and

they want to work in the biden administration on some of items like smaller infrastructure package. so as we try to figure out how much of biden's big agenda can get through congress, and that's really the big question all over washington, okay, how much of it can pass, we are left with the other big question of what is today's republican party for? so joining me now from the white house, fresh off his exclusive sit-down with president biden on day 100, is my colleague craig melvin. also with us capitol hill correspondent leigh ann caldwell. craig, let's start with this, i assume you dealt with the entire size of government in this sort of era. joe biden spent his entire political career under what i would argue the political influence of two political parties who were starting to move in the direction of less government. and here he is now at the precipice of introducing a new era. how does he deal with that sort of what his life was like before president as politician and guy

we're seeing today? >> you know, chuck, you hit the nail on the head there. in terms of senator biden, as you know, in support of the balanced budget amendment back in the '90s. but not only did we hear something we've not heard from a sitting president for decades last night, that the era of big government is back, this morning through my conversation with the president, he really leaned into it, to your point, he's betting that the american public want bolder government. and there are two calculations here, chuck, that i think are interesting. first, the president is banking on the fact -- and you sort of alluded to it during our conversation, because of the pandemic and because of the government's response to the pandemic, that's one of the reasons that people may want more government in their lives instead of less. and the second, you heard this last night in the speech as well, he's sort of framing this as perhaps an existential threat to democracy because of china.

this idea that if we don't spend trillions of dollars on infrastructure as it was traditionally known and infrastructure as the president is trying to redefine it, if we don't spend that money, we're not going to be able to compete with a growing threat from china. it was interesting to hear him sort of frame his way towards that lens. >> another thing that sort of jumped out i think at a lot of folks is how he wanted to -- it is almost as if he would listen to one of former president trump's chief critiques at former president obama that he used to say he thought president trump didn't cheer lead enough for the economy, spent too long explaining things. what did joe biden did last night? every proposal he put out there, craig, he ended it with a riff on one word, and let me play an excerpt that emphasizes that one word. take a listen. >> 100 days ago america's house

was on fire, and we had to act. but thanks to the extraordinary leadership of speaker pelosi, majority leader schumer, and the overwhelming support of the american people, democrats, independents and republicans, we did act. >> in this administration inherited a tide that had already turned. the coronavirus is on the run. >> for too long we failed to use the most important word when it comes to meeting the climate crisis, jobs. jobs. jobs. >> craig, we had a little bit of -- we played a couple extra bites there. the last bite was the quick point i was trying to make there. he said the word 43 times. he obviously thinks he knows a good way of selling something.

>> that's what he's obviously going to do. headed to georgia down, going to return, the president, vice president, first lady and first gentleman going to spend most of the day crisscrossing across the country, not selling a billion bills but what you just heard there, a jobs creation package. i also thought it interesting, chuck, when the president talked about not just the number of jobs that would be created but the kinds of jobs. the president went out of his way to talk about the overwhelming majority of his jobs wouldn't require a college degree. many wouldn't even require high school degree. it's obvious who the president is trying to speak to here with regards to job creation and specifically the kinds of dogs he contends these bills would create, but going back to what you alluded to as well a few moments ago, chuck, the president did point out during

my conversation this morning, we heard it from other democratic leaders as well, it's a little difficult to listen to some republicans talk about storing deficits and debts when the last four years have been sewing deficits and debts. >> and that points to the larger issue of how are republicans going to combat president biden here because one of their main targets is something they don't have a good record on, like the national debt. craig melvin, i'm anxious to see the entire interview. i know we have information on police reform and corruption and we will see it all later on "nightly news." nice work, my friend. >> thanks, chuck. let me move on to leigh ann caldwell on capitol hill. and i will tell you this, in a briefing yesterday before the speech with speaker pelosi and senate majority leader chuck schumer, the only question any

of us had was how are you going to get this passed, and when they said it's the only question they get from their members and they're not ready to say how this was going to get passed but it does seem to be the biggest question lurking on capitol hill today. >> yeah, president biden laid out a speech. now it's congress' job to try to get it past, especially the democrats' job. and that is the question, chuck, trying to ask that question in a million different ways to republicans and democrats. it was really interesting to hear craig say that president biden is betting on big government because of covid, because the american people have become used to government support. well, the republicans think that is providing a spewed reality because of so much government support in covid. it's hard to find an american family who did not get something from the government in the multiple covid relief bills. they're saying there's a skewed view of what government should do and they think that that is

going to backfire because they keep coming back to nothing is free, so people will have to pay for this through their taxes. so they have created the opposition to what the president has laid out but the big question is, can they come together on a smaller, transportation focused infrastructure bill? i just talked to senator shelley moore capito of west virginia who is leading that front, and she sounds optimistic, chuck. >> i do think you get the sense that a lot of republicans realize infrastructure money is going out the door and they want to put their name on it. the question is, how much will they put their name on and how much of it will they tell democrats go do to yourself in reconciliation? leigh ann caldwell on capitol hill for us, thank you. and hopefully that will give us a clearer picture how they will pass this thing. let's talk to democratic senator chris coons from delaware.

senator coons, you heard a bit of the conversation we're having. i guess let me start with this, you accept the premise here that the era of big government being over is now over? >> well, chuck, i think president biden certainly gave an encouraging, forceful, optimistic speech last night about how we're going to meet this moment. and he's already demonstrated, the democratic caucus already demonstrated with the american rescue plan, that we need to deliver bold, big answers to how we're going to recover from this pandemic, how we're going to address vaccinations, how we're going to help the american people get back out of the recession we've been in. so what the president laid out last night, chuck, was a vision for a generational investment in infrastructure and job creation, tackling our other existential threat climate change and finding ways to come together and invest in american families through things like more money for day care, for

apprenticeships, for community college, as he put it, the investments that will help us win the future. i think we are in a moment where the american people are looking hard at how we got into and how we're going to get out of the pandemic and the recession, and i think we're going to see a broad embrace of a bold government response to the challenges the american people and american families face right now. >> so square that answer you just gave me with what you said earlier today to a reporter saying there's real value in passing a smaller infrastructure bill if it's bipartisan, and i guess you view it as an either/or proposition or do you view it as do as much stuff you can do in a bipartisan way and then save -- whatever you can't get done, then try reconciliation? >> absolutely the latter, chuck, just to be clear. i think there's value to bipartisanship both domestically in the united states as

president biden said several times last night, we need to show the american people we hear each other, we can negotiate, we can deliver answers to the problems facing their families and there's also international value to bipartisanship, to showing our leading global competitors china and russia, who are running around the world saying america after that horrific riot in the capitol january 6th that our democracy is in decline. chuck, there's also reasons we may need to pursue a bipartisan infrastructure built first as members of both caucuses are negotiating in about faith, willing to put pen to paper and over the next few weeks, not an internalable period, a period that should last maybe a month or two more, we will work with senators like senator capito of west virginia to do our absolute best to come up with a bold infrastructure package that will make that generational

investment. i will remind you, chuck, we all drive on an interstate highway system that was built in the '50s and '60s. we've got airports and roads and bridges and tunnels that are failing by any analysis or grade and makes us let competitive locally. i think we can and should find ways to pay for that, to build that and to do that on a bipartisan basis and then turn to the parts of the biden plan and proposal that deal with things like climate change, resiliency and investment in a caring economy that probably won't get republican votes but are very well worth doing and i strongly support. >> let's talk about how you pay for it, and, frankly, whether you pay for all of it? your colleague brian schatz of hawaii, democrat from hawaii, he said this to axios -- i'm not a big pay-for guy. i think some investments are worth deficit financing. because this seems to be -- i'm

going to guess -- the only way a bipartisan bill is going to come together because it doesn't sound like either party is going to gree on a pay for, unless there is no pay for. >> look, one of the challenges we had -- i have only been here ten years, chuck, but we talk about infrastructure, we talk about infrastructure and then there's a basic divide how to pay for it. i think the president has done a great job putting forward proposals, suggestions for how we pay for all of his major plans. the rescue plan, jobs plan, family plan, he's put forward ways to pay for them and turn to us and said you're the senate, do your job. as he said last night, roll up your sleeves, get to work. i think we need to pay for as much of it as we reasonably can but we shouldn't leave bold proposals on the table simply because we can't come to an agreement on pay for it. infrastructure is a long-term benefit to the american people.

this is a 40 or 50-year benefit if we invest in modernizing our electrical grid, our rail and transit systems, our broadband and clean water and wastewater systems. chuck, those who question if we can get anything done on a bipartisan basis, we passed yesterday a clean air bill on a bipartisan basis and will past later today a clean water bill that senator capito had on the senate floor. so i think we have to bear down and have some to pay for. >> i think it also sounds like it means if you're going to keep 50 democrats in the same place, they're not all going to feel comfortable voting for every one of these tax increases? >> that's likely true but part of the job of being senators is communicating clearly within our caucus and across the aisle and publicly and here's what i stand

for, here's what i'm willing to vote for. there are some priorities the president has laid out that i think will really move our country forward that are long overdo investments in making sure folks can get back to work as they recover from this pandemic. we discovered i think more clearly than ever how we underinvested from public health to childcare. i suspect we may not get everybody on board with the tax increases but we will get everybody on board with the priorities in my caucus. >> senator chris coons, democrat from delaware, anybody that watches this interview goes to the transcript i think is going to have a good idea of where things are headed. really appreciate the insight and perspective you gave us. >> thanks, chuck. up next -- the ambitious goal set by president biden on police reform. we're going to talk to a bipartisan pair of lawmakers heading into a negotiation to try and get something done. done

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my fellow americans, we have to come together to rebuild trust between law enforcement and people they serve, to root out systemic racism in our criminal justice system, and enact police reform in george floyd's name that passed the house already. i know republicans have their own ideas and are engaged in very productive discussions with democrats in the senate. we need to work together to find a consensus. but let's get it done next month by the first anniversary of george floyd's death. >> formal talks on police reform are beginning actually in just a few minutes. those negotiations will include eight lawmakers, four democrats and four republicans, and two of those lawmakers, one from each side of the aisle joins me now. they are the co-chairs of the

problems solvers caucus. welcome to both of you. let me just start congressman gottheimer with the president's decision to set a deadline. helpful or can that sometimes deadline harm things? what say you? >> i always think lines are good to force action but, frankly, on this topic it's something we've been working on for months now in a bipartisan way and bicamera way, chuck. the talks we're having today and in just a few minutes are a continuation of that dialogue. i'm grateful for people like ryan fitzpatrick, my co-chair here, former fbi agent, for the insight he brings to the table every day and i'm optimistic if we work together, we'll get somewhere. >> congressman fitzpatrick, in negotiations like this, it's easy to see the compromise if everybody wants to get there. so i want to start there.

i take it everybody in the room wants to get there. do you believe if everybody in the room wants to get there, that the politics, maybe the campaign operatives will stay out of it and let it happen? >> we have to. that's our job. that's what josh and i believe in. that's what our caucus believes in. you've got to go show, political courage, to do the right thing. we will all be former members of congress at some point. you want to be able to look back at your time and say you had the courage to do what was right. this was an area i think we had great conversations on and we're kind of taking that to the next level now. smaller group, bicameral, to figure out where we agree and where we disagree, we can put that to the side and pick that up in round two. >> congressman fitzpatrick, let me follow up with you as a former fbi agent, i'm curious what you think of the qualified immunity compromise senator scott has been -- has put out

there. not the idea of the police officer but the departments essentially would not have immunity here. what do you make of that? and do you think that's fair or do you think you could go further? >> we'll find out in short order here when we talk to our bipartisan, bicameral group, what whys they have. certainly that was an issue that came up in the house discussions that josh and i were part of, about how do we reform immunity in a manner that still protects our police officers and protects their families and protects the institution of policing. we all know there's a lot of reforms that need to be made, just like all areas of life. these are areas we need to modernize and this is good for the police officers in our community simultaneously. we will see what the preposal is. obviously, we always should keep an open mind to get a yes and get to the right policy. to josh's point earlier about deadlines, the deadline here

might be when we have enough time to get this right, because this is really, really important stuff. we want to enhance security and protect law enforcement at the same time. >> congressman gottheimer, i want to switch gears here a little bit and ask you since you guys are the chair of the problems solvers caucus, what role do you think you guys should have in these infrastructure proposals? what role do you hope the caucus has? >> well, we've actually, chuck, been working now for months on the infrastructure side of the larger jobs package in a bipartisan way. a group of us met actually in maryland with a bipartisan group of governors and senators at the end of last week. the goal is to put out an infrastructure package. the three pieces we identified in all of our bipartisan discussions is, one, deciding on the scope of what that looks like. is there a piece we can narrow that down to with roads, tunnels, bridges, broadband?

we've been meeting with our counterparts in the senate. and secondly, what should that actually cost? and, of course, third how do you pay for it? and we've been having those discussions. i'm optimistic we can get something done. i think it's important to hear the president say he's open to ideas from both sides, that's critical. so we will solve the problem here. >> and senator, i don't know how much you heard from senator coons, but you're hearing a handful of senate democrats float the idea, well, maybe you finance some of this with deficit spending. frankly, the public doesn't seem to care about the debt and deficit the way, frankly, it was perceived to be for decades. >> we all need to care about the debts and deficit because it will be our children and

grandchildren to deal with the national debt. when it comes to infrastructure, the key is making wise investments. if federal dollars are spent wisely, this will yield three, four, five dollar investment returns. and we talked about what josh referred to, bipartisan, bicameral meeting in the statehouse in annapolis. and broadband, netflix will ben from that, maybe they can be part of that. and airports, looking at salt lake city, they financed a lot. if we make the right investments, you encourage private investments. if it needs to be segregated out to the dollar, only 30 cents in private investment. so the number one is the key of the structure and two, identifying the scope both in aggregate and individual buckets and third are the pay force. as long as we begin with real

numbers that are not coming out of the clear blue sky, we will find a way to pay for it because it's the best for our country and our international security. >> congressman gottheimer, do you accept the definition of human infrastructure that many of your fellow democrats are putting out there? obviously, some republicans don't. do you accept it on the democratic side? do you think that's a fair pitch? >> i certainly think, and the president's positive, ambitious speech he gave last night, he brought up a lot of critical issues to make sure we have a strong economy going forward and people have good jobs and we've got a strong -- our kids and grandkids are able to succeed the way we've been able to succeed and that includes things like childcare and education. so i definitely believe in those areas. i think the key in getting a bipartisan deal done is we have to separate out pieces of this as some referred to, we have to take that physical infrastructure piece and look at

it and there are other areas we have to tackle. i think what brian and i are doing with senators with the problem solvers now are looking at the first piece, physical infrastructure, and we have to, in my opinion, address all of these areas over time. >> all right. i've got to let you guys go because you guys have to go into the meeting i think in a minute. so i don't want to make you late. congressman gottheimer and congressman fitzpatrick, thank you both. up next -- what does it take to get the green light to search the home of two former high-level justice department officials? the latest on the investigation into rudy giuliani as the fbi seizes his private phones and computers. ♪ when i was young ♪

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i've been taking prevagen for about three years now. people say to me periodically, "man, you've got a memory like an elephant." it's really, really helped me tremendously. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. welcome back. we're learning more about the execution of a search warrant on rudy giuliani's home office yesterday. his part of the ongoing investigations into his dealings inside ukraine and rudy giuliani's alleged failure to register. and rudy giuliani turned over one cell phone, one ipad and one laptop. also, victoria toensing is another trump associate and official married to a u.s. attorney, also had her house searched in connection with this

investigation. again, these weren't ordinary search warrants. chuck rosenberg, former nbc legal analyst and dodge official tells us these kinds of searches like giuliani and toensing, would need high-level approval from a main justice before they even went to the judge to ask. joining me now is nbc legal analyst joyce vance, former u.s. attorney herself with the northern district of alabama. joyce, let me start with this, as a former u.s. attorney, would you expect some deference if you were potentially under investigation from the justice department, meaning that you would assume justice isn't going to move on you as a former official unless they dotted every i and crossed every t? >> i think that's absolutely correct, chuck. even in not a politically involved case where you're seeking to search an attorney's office and there's an attorney/client relationship,

these search warrants are reviewed in main justice. in a case like this, every effort would be made, particularly with a new administration where there's not a confirmed assistant attorney general for the criminal division. i wouldn't at all be surprised if the deputy attorney general had reviewed this application and affidavit to justify the search warrant. >> if you're in charge of this investigation and you know you're about to ask for a search warrant from a -- of a former u.s. attorney and not any former u.s. attorney, the former head of your department itself, right, sdny, how -- when you are preparing your case for why you have cause for this search warrant, you know, how thorough are you going to have that? i mean, i guess what i'm trying to figure out is how much probable cause did they have? >> so first let me say as a u.s.

attorney, i insisted we maintain high standards for probable cause in all of those cases and i think that's typical in the department. probable cause itself is a threshold of proof that means it's very likely that something is the case. in this case that a search will produce evidence or fruits or instrumentalities of criminal conduct. you want to be really sure that it's there, and it has to be fresh. you can't say, well, we believe there was evidence two months ago or a confidential informant was in the house and he observed mr. giuliani engaging in an online transaction two weeks ago. judges are very strict about this. and when you discuss with the federal judge who has to authorize this kind of a search warrant, probable cause, they're really very strict about that evidentiary threshold. that means that people inside of doj, from the line prosecutor and agents, all the way on up to

the people who authorized this, will look at the cause from a couple different directions to make sure it's sound. and add to that the requirement that you only obtain a search warrant in this situation when you try other, less invasive methods of obtaining evidence and they failed. that really brings home the notion doj had a lot of evidence, a lot of probable cause here before they jumped with the search. >> and i want to jump ahead to this question, which is how likely is it that they already have the evidence that they -- that they think is on those electronic devices and they want to confirm that indeed, yep, our source of that information was right because now we've got proof, we have said evidence there? is it more likely they kind of know the evidence they already have and they're trying to confirm sort of its -- that it physically was in his -- that he

communicated or is there a fishing expedition aspect to this? >> so i suspect -- let me just say, we can't know this for certain because we don't know what was contained in the affidavit but it's unlikely this is a fishing expedition. because there's an important element in any of the range of prosecutions they can be considering here will be his intent or his knowledge, what he hoped to do when he was involved, let's just say in transactions with ukraine officials. also, it's possible there's an element of obstruction here. they may want to look at these devices to see if there's been effort of deleting information, which would run afoul of loss. there's a lot of possibilities once they are able to take a look at the electronic equipment they seized. >> finally, i'm running a little short on time, we know with this

clip we had craig melvin ask the former -- excuse me, current president, joe biden, if he had any advance notice on this, he said he didn't. he had no idea any of this was under way. let me ask you this, the fact merrick garland was willing to sign off on something bill barr wasn't, what does that tell you? >> it's hard to know for sure. it could be that there was not probable cause to do this search when it was put in front of bill barr. we don't know that. it could be that they've got additional probable cause or it could be that there's something here that bears further scrutiny. >> joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, really appreciate you trying to give us all a little bit of insight on how justice works, not just any justice, the justice department in this case. anyway, as always, thank you for your expertise and perspective. >> thank you. up next -- how black voters in one of the key counties we've

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welcome back. as you heard just moments ago from congressman gottheimer and fitzpatrick, congress is getting down to actual negotiating today on the issue of police reform after president biden set a bit more of an ambitious goal next month to get it done. president biden's first 100 days in office have been marked by multiple instances of deadly police encounters with black americans, forcing him to meet the issues of systemic racism and pless reform head on in his first 100 days. and americans had mixed reviews, frankly, in response to our latest poll. 49% approve and 43% disapprove, a slimmer margin than his overall approval rating. as part of our county-to-county

project, brendan lee is in milwaukee, wisconsin, one of our five counties to watch in 2020. what are you hearing, and are you hearing the same sort of mixed messages, if you will, from some voters? >> hey, chuck, i certainly would say black voters here are giving biden in his first 100 days mixed at best. i was asking votes to grade his performance so far and pound for pound he's got a b-minus. they say he's doing okay with lots of room for improvement. certainly issues around police reform, violence, lobbyist, black community, range of issues. but let's hear from them exactly how they're feeling about biden's first 100 days. take a listen. >> i voted for joe biden. >> you feel good about the vote? >> that's my answer. >> i haven't seen anything that

really creates sustainable change where we need to dismantle this racist systems that really harm our people. >> i want a bill that's passed that specifically speaks to racism and discrimination and white sue premises in policing. and i want that bill to trickle down to police policy and reform. we have a broken system. giving word or vice that it's heartfelt isn't enough. >> chuck, it's that last part, wanting specificity or executive orders aimed squarely at the black community. many folks said while we can't get any anti-lynching discrimination through congress, you have anti-lynching co-hate legislation, violence against women act, all of these different efforts aimed at certain groups of people but black folks say the chauvin trial did little to disswathe our concerns about the safety of our community and well being of our sons, brothers, sisters and

daughters. so they want something done, not just talk. they want real police action. >> right. i'm kairos, what would you assess the potential penalty for, frankly, the biden administration and democrats if they can't get police reform done? >> you know, it's the same thing we heard even before, you know, the election. it's like you need to come to these communities and listen. they're not just purely four votes but voters here for issues that affect black people in a very specific kind of way. if the administration doesn't listen, doesn't push hard to make sure joe biden sticks to what he said he was going to do, have the backs of black voters and black people who supported him all along, he's going to risk a tough re-election. folks simply won't come out. you said you would do everything you could to make sure our community is safe and protected and if he falls short of that, he's going to leave a lot of votes on the table, chuck. >> well, it's pretty clear, words may have worked in the

past. just words aren't going to work this time. there clearly needs action behind it. trymaine lee on the ground for us in milwaukee. fine work as always, sir, thank you. and coming up -- a deep dive into the human toll of the political fight over immigration and it happens to be a preview of tonight's new episode of "meet the press reports" is next. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today. so with your home & auto bundle, you'll save money and get round-the-clock protection. -sounds great. -sure does. shouldn't something, you know, wacky be happening right now? we thought people could use a break. we've all been through a lot this year. -that makes sense. -yeah. so...

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welcome back. if it's thursday right now, that means there is a new episode of our streaming show "meet the press reports" which airs on abc live now. last night president biden urged congress to pass comprehensive immigration reform, but he also signaled an openness to compromise on the issue, and that prospect of a smaller, more targeted legislation is out of concern for mixed status families, like the one in los angeles that my colleague jacob soboroff spoke to for tonight's new episode of "meet the press reports." take a listen. >> anna's parents, like most of the million undocumented u.s. residents, entered the country by evading detection. now people arriving on the border enter differently. they actually want to turn themselves in so they can declare asylum. but often the forces driving

them are the same: economic ruin. for years hunger and poverty has been intensifying, driving central americans to the u.s. in 2019, the world food program took us to a village in remote guatemsould no longer buy cash crops or earn a supplemental living. so everyone raising their hand right now knows someone who left to go to the united states because they couldn't survive here. who do you know went to the united states? >> papa. >> what is he doing now? he's cleaning. her dad is cleaning. >> do you want to stay here or go there? >> she wants to stay. >> now the world food program says conditions are worsening, complicating president biden's immigration agenda. >> now you think the current controversy might distract from helping people who have lived here for years, if not decades,

just like you? >> yeah. >> we're going to pick up on that point right now. jacob soboroff joins me. he's been reporting on the border crisis and the family separation issue for years, and he joins me now. jacob, what was interesting there is this concern that anna and her parents have about this -- all right, we have this new crisis at the border, but we've been dealing with the 11 million folks that are here undocumented, and we used to say for a decade. i think we're on our second decade. >> reporter: three decades when it comes to anna's father, chuck, who everybody will meet tonight on "mtp reports." i'm grateful for you guys asking us to do it, because the truth of the matter is we spent a lot of time focusing on the

situation at the border itself, and there is so much more to it. there is what's happening in central america, but it's also the implications of what's happening in central america and on the border to the politics in washington, d.c. and who that ultimately affects, and it affects directly the 1 million undocumented folks, including anna, two decades when it comes to her mom, and they want to give all those undocumented citizens status, but status for d.r.e.a.m.ers and farm workers will come to those who have been fighting that fight for just as long and with as much skin in the game. >> you noted that these mixed status families, they're actually trapped in this country now for a while. they can't leave because they're not here legally, and if they leave, and then they get

separated from their family -- i mean, it's really been a nightmare for folks who, again, we could have the debate about why they came, but, boy, they've been here a long time, been paying taxes, their kids are citizens. this is sort of the real life impact here. >> reporter: i'm so glad you brought that up, because family separation is something that we associate with president trump and the trump administration, and surely the policy that they carried out, zero tolerance, was cruel, it was deliberate, they meant to separate families at the border, but there is an entirely different type of family separation that plays out every day when it comes to border separation if they get snagged by the patrol at the border. they're still at risk of separation today, especially if president biden goes with that

more targeted immigration reform proposal. >> it's why you need more than five minutes to do a story, and tonight we have more than five minutes. you'll be able to see much more of jacob's reporting years in the making in some cases on tonight's episode of "meet the press reports." it streams at 8:00 p.m. eastern tonight. it will be available on ondemand in perpetuity on peacock. my friend katy tur continues right after this break. d katy ts right after this break there's not more medicines in my pill. i talked to my doctor... and switched to... fewer medicines with dovato. prescription dovato is for some adults who are starting hiv-1 treatment or replacing their current hiv-1 regimen. with... just 2 medicines... in 1 pill,... dovato is as effective as a 3-drug regimen... to help you reach and stay undetectable. research shows people who take hiv treatment as prescribed... and get to and stay undetectable...

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good afternoon. i'm katy tur. as we come on the air, two presidents, the current and the former, are responding for the first time to the fbi raid on rudy giuliani's new york city home along with his office. president biden in an exclusive interview with my colleague craig melvin says he had no

idea. >>