the $4 trillion price tag of those two plans drawing harsh criticism from republicans. >> if you're talking about a scope which is roads and bridges and internet and tunnels and airports and waterways, we can be pretty close. if you're talking about spending hundreds of billions of dollars to benefit public service unions, then we're far apart. >> the most important thing is to get it done. people aren't looking at the sausage-making. i appreciate republican colleagues coming forward with infrastructure plans. but are they going to step up and make sure everybody in america is paying for it? >> the president also urging congress to have a police reform bill on his desk by may 25, that being the anniversary of george floyd's death. this morning the republican senator at the forefront of those bipartisan talks says he's optimistic. >> the things that i offered last year are more popular this year. that gives me reasons to be

hopeful. and frankly, john, i was thinking about this, think about the parts of the two bills that are in common. data collection. i've been through negotiations and conversations, we're now closer on no-knock warrants and chokeholds. there's something called section 1033 that has to do with getting military equipment to local police. we've literally been able to bring these two bills very close together. meantime, new reaction from congressman adam schiff to the fbi raiding the home and office of trump's former personal attorney rudy giuliani. >> the danger here is you have an american citizen, the personal attorney of the president, engaged in pushing out a kremlin false narrative and perhaps being -- doing so at the behest of these ukrainian politicians. the focus of the investigation appears to be was rudy giuliani, this person who was basically

communicating with members of congress, with the president, was he secretly working for a foreign power. and in texas, the first hotly-contested special election of the biden administration will advance to a runoff. republican susan wright is so far the only candidate in the 23-person race to meet the threshold to fill her late husband's congressional seat. nbc news has not yet projected who wright will face in the runoff but it appears to be coming down to a battle between republican jake ellizey and democrat sanchez. nbc's mike memoli, mike, welcome this sunday. where is biden's next stop on the infrastructure tour? >> reporter: if you look back on the month of april, the president spent most of the month hunkered down had he white house, working on that big speech he delivered to congress last week, finalizing details with key staff. but he and other officials are

now ready to hit the road throughout the month of may to try to sell this economic plan, the trillions of dollars that it represents, to the public. we already saw the president with the first lady last week in atlanta. the next day, in philadelphia. i was with him as he returned to his beloved amtrak. starting tomorrow he's heading down to virginia. later this week he'll also visit louisiana. interesting, he hasn't visited many red states. louisiana is deeply red. the vice president out of course on the road, she'll be heading this week to rhode island and milwaukee. as the administration sells the american jobs plan, the american family plan, we're seeing administration officials fanning out on the sunday shows. jake sullivan, we think of him in terms of foreign policy, but he was the architect of the build back better plans that the administration is now selling. listen to how he framed the argument this morning. >> the number one thing we can

do to accomplish that is to invest in ourselves, in our infrastructure, in our innovation, in our manufacturing, in our people. and that means the bold, far-reaching investments, in everything from research and development to an updated electricity grid, to all of the job-creating, middle-class-growing investments that joe biden has proposed. that's not just good for our economic security, it's good for our national security. >> reporter: alex, i was in philadelphia on friday where the president was enjoying himself, talking about amtrak's history. the administration's policy is running on two tracks, you could say. on the one hand officials are on the road trying to build public pressure for lawmakers to support his plan. we'll also see this week, as ron klain, white house chief of staff, said this morning, inviting more members of congress, more republicans as well, to the oval office. anita dunn, another senior white house official, saying this is a time for discussions and yes,

this is a time for compromise. they see the possibility for bipartisan support, despite the fact that the earlier american rescue plan was voted on along party lines. >> thank you, mike, so much. new revelations lead for calls for matt gaetz to be removed from the house judiciary committee following a scathing new article by "the daily beast" which published a letter reportedly written by gaetz's associate joel greenberg, the letter written to roger stone. the letter says that greenberg worked with stone to secure a president from then-president donald trump. nbc news has not obtained nor seen the letter. gaetz denies wrongdoing and has not been charged with anything at this point. let's go to nbc's amanda golden

who is on capitol hill with the latest from there. what are you hearing on capitol hill, amanda? >> reporter: alex, there continues to be outspoken democratic lawmakers, speaking out about the allegations against matt gaetz. there are very few republican lawmakers who will speak out at this point. as you note, the continued details mounting in these ongoing investigations and allegations against matt gaetz, nbc has not verified the draft of the letter and has not reviewed the contents but we have very strong statements in defense of matt gaetz from a spokesperson hired by gaetz. the statement says, quote, congressman gaetz has never paid for sex nor has he had sex with a 17-year-old as an adult. politico has reported mr. greenberg's threats to make false accusations against others and while the daily beast's story contains a lot of

confessions from mr. greenberg, it does not add anything of substance. we also have a statement directly from roger stone to nbc news denying he sought a pardon behalf of congressman gaetz. his statement says, quote, the daily beast has based their usual smear attempts on alleged text messages which are out of order, incomplete, edited and out of context. i took not a dime from mr. greenberg nor anyone else seeking a pardon. i have seen no actual proof of any allegations he has made against congressman gaetz. it's been several weeks since this investigation of matt gaetz has been ongoing on top of a house ethics investigation which has been going on through the last few weeks. there are very few republican lawmakers speaking out. we're hearing more from democratic lawmakers including congressman ted lieu who said on our air he thought gaetz should be removed from the judiciary committee which oversees law enforcement entities that are

investigating gaetz at this time. yesterday on our air, congressman jim clyburn spoke to that very fact. >> we should keep all these investigations sterile. we ought not have anybody sitting anywhere that could cause some doubt to be thrown on the investigations. i think representative gaetz has been subjecting himself to activities that ought to be scrutinized. we ought not have anybody think he is someplace where he could short-circuit the scrutiny. >> reporter: as i mentioned, republican lawmakers remain largely silent at this time on the allegations against congressman gaetz. there is one call within his own party calling on gaetz to resign, and that's from congressman adam kinzinger. he stands alone. house minority leader kevin mccarthy acknowledges the

allegations are serious and that matt gaetz denies them at this time, but if found to be true, kevin mccarthy says gaetz would be removed from his committee assignments and that would include being removed from the house judiciary committee. >> amanda, thank you for that comprehensive wrap-up. joining me is michigan congresswoman debbie dingell. welcome back to the broadcast, always good to see you here on the weekends. let's start with your republican colleague matt gaetz. he remains defiant as march damaging information is surfacing. republican lawmakers, and i'm sure from your own experience you know, have been silent. at what point should something be done, at the very least taking him off the judiciary committee, the committee that would be investigating him? wouldn't that be common sense? >> i think these allegations are disgusting, ddespicable, and deeply disturbing. but in the last four years i've

found myself saying the fundamental pillars of our constitution, freedom of speech, freedomof religion, were being attacked, and due process is one of those pillars. kevin mccarthy has a moral responsibility to his caucus to make sure these investigations are going forward, that the house ethics committee is involved in it, and that this needs to be quickly addressed. i do believe we've got to protect people's right to due process. but i sure hope the republican caucus is as deeply disturbed as a lot of us, especially women, are with him. it shouldn't be a republican or democratic issue. this is the kind of behavior that we are trying to fight every single day and have seen more progress made in the last four years. >> let's move to this now, the president and vice president getting back on the road this week. they're selling their infrastructure plan, the jobs

and families plan. republicans have made clear their opposition to the price tag. what is your message to them and what do you think it will take to get these sweeping packages to the president's desk? >> first of all, i want to say, alex, i think there's more agreement than people realize. everybody -- you know, this is one of these things, everybody tries to pit people against each other and to make these false choices. there's more agreement -- >> can i ask quickly, i don't mean to interrupt, but do you think the agreement is among the american people, which i will 100% back you on, because you see poll after poll that people want these plans. is there the same kind of agreement you're discussing in congress? >> so joe biden made it clear he wants to hear republican ideas, he'll sit down with them. broadband, not only jim clyburn but fred upton, my colleague from michigan, is his co-lead on

that. i am finally talking to republicans about a number of specific issues in the family plan. i met with women last week who -- one woman was working two jobs, still not making $15 an hour between the two of them. [ inaudible ]. more than 3 million women have been forced out of the workforce, many have a hard time coming back. these are problems that have to get addressed. people want to address them. some of the ways you do it, there is agreement on. making the 55 corporations that have paid no taxes, companies that have used loopholes in our tax holes to relocate overseas,

there's a lot of places to start right now that will cover the cost of this. and when you're creating good paying, middle class jobs, you have jobs where people are paying taxes, that are ultimate revenue for this country. >> in terms of your point about their being consensus agreement, there was this with the senate which on thursday overwhelmingly 89-2 to pass a $35 billion bill to bolster states' water infrastructure. so the sausage-making, if you will, you used that phrase earlier, that which happened to get this thing passed, is that a template for building consensus around the president's infrastructure plan, potentially? >> i think that's what's happening. i think there are more discussions happening than maybe people realize or want to acknowledge. we're starting to take pen to paper. it's one thing to talk about this stuff up here. i'm very focused on electric vehicle infrastructure. everybody can say they want to

go to a zero mandate but how are you going to sell them, how will you make them affordable, how will you develop a battery, how will you build those batteries here in the united states of america? there are real tough conversations going on, but they're happening. >> look, the electric vehicle, you brought up that, i'm so glad you did. here is something you said about it, which is that electric vehicles must be built here in america, gm needs to confirm their commitment to working american families. and they said they were going to invest more than a billion dollars to build those entities in mexico. so what are you concerned about with regard to that? >> what am i concerned about? let me tell you something, i'm going to be blunt. the internal combustion engine requires more than an electric vehicle does. but we have to build the batteries here. a worker in my district hears green jobs and they think, my job is going away and anything else i get is going to pay less. we have to be intentional. i have been for the last six

weeks at a table with ceos for all the environmental groups and the uaw, separate meetings with the ibw. how do we protect the environment and make sure jobs are located here? our national security adviser said it's a national security issue. 90% of our generic drugs are made overseas. we have to get manufacturing back to this country, creating more jobs. that's automatic revenue. >> congresswoman debbie dingell, always good to start a sunday off with you, come see me again soon, thank you. right now in north carolina, a public viewing for andrew brown jr. is under way. he will be laid to rest tomorrow, more than a week after his shooting death at the hands of deputies. nbc's sam brock is in elizabeth city for us. a second viewing set to begin in just a few hours ago.

what about concerns about demonstrations? what do you know? >> reporter: i'm looking at sort of the beginnings of them. i'm at the museum of the albemarle, where the public viewing will be from 3:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. this afternoon. there's roughly 50 to 60 people huddled together many in black shirts with messages on them. i've watched a couple of buses come in, i'm told it will be hundreds, maybe a thousand people out here demonstrating for criminal justice reform. one young man said he drove three or four hours to get here. the back of his shirt said, release the tape, the full tape. the family of andrew brown has seen about 20 seconds of body cam video and the public has seen nothing so far, that is per a court order, alex. that is not going to suffice for the folks here, not when we've seen no one charged to date. four of the deputies involved in the shooting are back on the job. a private autopsy commissioned by the family showed andrew brown was shot in the back of the head.

that's how he died. there is a lot of anger, a lot of angst right now, certainly confusion. when i spoke with the funeral viewing director, the director of services, he says he's lived here his entire life and is a member of the city council, he used the word "irate" to describe the mood and he talked about how deeply the division has affected the people of elizabeth city. here is what he said. >> it's affected us in so many different ways. number one, there's a lot of hurt for a man that was well-known as being a nice guy, to have to go through this, what we believe was a possible execution/murder. it's just devastated the community. a lot of unanswered questions right now. as a matter of fact, with so many unanswered questions, it's hard for the community to begin to heal and be made whole. >> reporter: and mr. horton said that certainly with respect to what happened in minneapolis with the conviction of derek chauvin, the murder of george floyd, that this feels like we're taking one step backwards

as a society after this. alex, there will be two public views today. the funeral is tomorrow. reverend al sharpton will be delivering the eulogy and the clock right now is going to run out for the time when the family will be able to see the full video, four deputies' worth of cameras, that could be this friday or saturday. we're keeping an eye on that as well. >> thank you so much, sam. you bring a good point about the rev. mayor of elizabeth city bettie parker will be joining the rev, you can all watch "politicsnation." dramatic news from a soccer stadium in the uk, angry manchester united or "man u" fans have stormed the field. some of them set off flares, one throwing a camera tripod, apparently. take a listen to the nbc sports

announcers describing this chaos. >> we have to break into this game. we'll keep the game on one side of the screen but we have to show you the scenes unfolding on the pitch. our commentator is there for us inside. arlo, can you tell us more? >> remarkable scenes here, rebecca, we got here to the gantry a little early so we could avoid the protests outside and get into the game safely and in good time. the noise outside was clearly audible from inside the stadium. we heard a couple of loud bangs as well as fireworks went off. all of a sudden there was a loud rattling sound and then the sound of voices getting closer and closer. lo and behold, to our right hand side, the fans started pouring down the steps and onto the pitch. you can see now one or two fans infiltrating the media area. the fans came onto the pick, rebecca, they made their way

towards the tunnel area. that's where the sky sports gantry is, where the announcer is doing his television work. there are no stewards, certainly no police in here. now the fans are making their way back across, the majority of them, back across back to the area they came into the stadium to lead the stadium. as you can see, there's smoke swirling around, there are fans on the goal net in front of the stratford end. and these are extraordinary scenes, the like of which i've never seen before. >> that is just wild. sky news reports the teams are stuck in their hotels. the match has been delayed. thousands also gathered outside to protest the owners' controversial proposal to create a soccer super league. no word on any arrests. you can bet some are coming. we'll keep an eye on this and bring you updates. manners maketh man. pictures from a scene in utah, a new reminder of just how much the u.s. has changed.

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a person who says what he thinks. i don't hide the fact i wasn't a fan of our last president's character issues and i'm also no fan -- [ shouting ] aren't you embarrassed? >> you heard it there, republican senator mitt romney met with a chorus of boos at utah's republican convention after saying he was not a fan of former president donald trump's character issues and thus the boos. "the salt lake city tribune" who was in the room reported that accusations like "traitor" or

"communist" flew like poison darts. we're going to get this now. joining me, don callaway, democratic strategist. susan del percio, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst. and david jolly, former congressman from florida and msnbc political contributor and new father. how's he doing? >> he's doing great, we're doing a lot of reading about raising his big sister, the 2-year-old. >> you have your hands full. susan, not too long ago mitt romney was the republican candidate for president. and now this. and i just want to remind people that the boos began when he said he was not a fan of the past president's character issues. >> i'm just so proud that mitt romney went there. he knew he would be facing a

hostile crowd. he survived censorship by just a few dozen votes. i give him a lot of credit for going there, knowing what was going to happen and speaking truth to power. it is disgraceful the way the people in the audience acted. i would like to highlight the loudest voices in the room do not necessarily represent the majority of the voters out there. but it is something to see, that this is where the party has headed, to boo mitt romney, former presidential candidate from 2012. it's just amazing. >> and here is something else, don, the crowd only stops when they're reminded to be civil. what does that tell you? >> you know, this is utah, and it's shameful, but this is also the state of the republican party, from state to state. these state and localized parties have been radicalized by the ethos of donald trump. democrats in utah and all around

the country, this is our time to build infrastructure, register voters, communicate a message about what the democratic administration in congress are doing. democrats need to use this to win elections and build lasting results. >> mitt romney not the only republican lawmaker paying the price for turning on trump. they're turning on congresswoman liz cheney, one congressman saying her criticisms are an unwelcome distraction and questioning whether she would retain her leadership role in a month. david, what do you make of that reaction compared to what republicans have said about matt gaetz? despite headlines getting worse by the day, there is zero push among members of his party to push him out or sideline him. >> alex, kevin mccarthy, job leader, is sticking with matt

gaetz but distancing himself from liz cheney, as are other republicans. they're sticking with one of their own who is alleged to be involved in sex trafficking but are separating themselves from someone who said donald trump encouraged insurrection and deserved impeachment. watching the likes of lisa murkowski in alaska, it's a dispassionate conversation, but republicans are proving the need for electoral reform. mitt romney has the support of the people in utah. liz cheney, the people of wyoming. lisa murkowski, the people of alaska. but because of our closed primary system, because of election rules, they have to make it through this broken party process of the republicans right now to stand before general election voters. and i think that's one lesson we should draw from that. how do we make sure these people standing up on the right side of

the constitution have the opportunity to stand before the voters in november? >> okay, to that point, i'm going to keep this with you, david, there is a new poll finding 46% of americans feel the bigger problem in elections is that the rules are not strict enough to prevent illegal voting. 45% say the bigger issue is that the rules make it too difficult for eligible citizens to vote. we're seeing more states advance laws that would make it harder for people to vote. and that includes your state of florida, passing a bill through the legislature there. the governor, ron desantis, is expected to sign it. is the republican strategy nothing more than trying to make it harder for democrats to vote? >> it's certainly a strong thread of it. look, in florida, our governor ron desantis said several months ago that florida had a great election, there were no problems. but what you see is the impact of the big lie, the impact of a national leader in donald trump who has lied to the american people, his deputies in the

republican party who have lied to the american people and suggested that somehow our elections weren't fair. they were. and what republicans were doing is simply trying to make it harder to vote rather than easier to vote. that's it. and they're defining the debate for us. we need to shift this debate and suggest, look, voting in 2021 could happen on your phone, we have the technology to do it, but politicians don't want that easy access, particularly republican politicians because they would lose at the ballot box. >> don, to david's point here, you've got a poll which suggests 30% of americans don't think biden won enough votes to be president. that is something that is blatantly, demonstrably false. you have 70% of republicans who say biden did not legitimately win. how is this happening? >> we can never forget the simple fact that republicans elected -- well, america elected as our last president a carnival barker, a marketer, a salesperson, and he went out and sold a lie.

you can tell people the sky is red long enough, and if you repeat it long enough, as a matter of human psychology, it eventually drips in. it's crazy, it's insane, but if you say it over and over and if moderate democrats and even people on the left don't combat it at every turn, it's going to seep in a little bit, even with people of goodwill. if we don't talk about it, we give life to the lie in a way we shouldn't have. this man lied and said he beat hillary clinton in the popular vote even when he was duly elected. so what's he going to say when he lost the election? he doesn't have the grace or character to tell the truth. unfortunately four years of the biggest platform in the world seeps into people's hearts and minds. it's very sad. >> mitt romney said that at the gop gathering and got booed for

saying it. the election lies that led to the january 6 attack on capitol hill, there's new reporting from "the daily beast" that says a slew of participants in that rally that preceded the riot are now campaigning for votes, and that includes jason howland running for michigan's 31st house district in 2022, and was spotted in the throng, pushing his way up the capitol steps. do you think republicans in congress care, is the mantra just win at any price? >> that is the mantra, win at any price. but here's the thing, alex, things in the republican party are going to get a lot worse before they get better. 2022 is going to be a nightmare when we see candidates like that man running for office. i don't know the specifics of the michigan 31 district. but if it's even like a 60/40 split and the republicans put a guy like that in, they're going to lose the seat.

this is a recipe for failure. and the republicans will continue, like david said, at the electoral level, to destroy themselves, because this won't work long term. we're not going -- extremism will end up ending the republican party as we know it. i have no idea what it will reemerge as but i don't think it will happen for about four or six years. >> okay, don and susan and david, thanks for making sense of certain things for me. please come back next weekend because i need you to do it again, i'm counting on you guys. with his first 100 days in the rearview mirror, the new challenge that could make or break president biden's push for reforms during his next hundred. our softest, smoothest fabric keeping her comfortable, protected, and undeniably sleek. depend. the only thing stronger than us, is you. ♪♪ (phone rings) hello? hi mommy, i won a medal. that's amazing!

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this week, the president and vice president will hit the road, traveling across america to sell their ambitious economic plans. joining me now is chief white house correspondent for "the new york times" and msnbc political

analyst peter baker and reuters white house correspondent jeff mason, two of my favorites. welcome, guys, to you both. peter, the president is pushing $4 trillion in additional spending over the next decade, bringing the total to now $6 trillion. these plans are not sitting well with republicans because of the cost at minimum. is this a sign that so-called big government is back and do we expect to see a lot of pushback on that then from republicans? >> that's certainly going to be the test of the next hundred days and the hundred after that, right? does biden's vision of a more activist government that is more expansive than it's been probably since lbj's great society, you know, is that embraced by a public at this point in time? the public is pretty polarized politically, ideologically, and culturally, as you were just talking about with your previous panel. it's an interesting moment. the progressive here to of the case is this is the right time to push for a much more, you

know, involved government, tackle poverty, tackle infrastructure, tackle these big things. but there are a lot of people out there, especially on the republican side, who worry about such big spending on top of the big spending that was done under donald trump with the deficit and the debt so high. and it's providing an obvious ammunition for republicans in their push to take back the congress in two years. >> according to a new poll, jeff, you've got nearly two-thirds of americans who are optimistic about the direction of the country, the highest it's been since 2006. what does this tell you about how biden's policies are being interpreted? >> i think it tells you that at least for now, he's got momentum, and he built on that momentum during that first 100 days, and he's going to try to build on that in his second 100 days. but he certainly faces roadblocks and those are the ones that peter just outlined, as well as the fact that despite the fact that it's just may, the shadow of the 2022 midterm elections is already hanging,

it's already out there. so that puts pressure on him to get as much done as he can in the next year and a half and it also raises sort of that balance that he has to play between meeting the needs and the demands of the progressive left while also not alienating too many people in the center and on the right among the republicans who he wants to try to build a little bit of support for going into the next round of elections. but in general, the polling that you just sited, alex, shows that people in the country, largely, as of right now, are supportive of what he's doing. that's helpful in the beginning days of his administration. >> the poll also shows a slim majority of americans think the federal government should spend to revitalize the economy, even if that includes higher taxes. so do you think this gives the go-ahead for biden on his progressive plans despite republican lawmaker opposition?

to all that jeff was staying, and if you look at the stats and the polls and americans supporting things at least in concept, is this the time to really take on his political capital and make a move? >> well, democrats certainly would argue that. they certainly look at polls like that and say, don't worry about the fact that republicans in congress are resisting, there's broader support among the public, particularly for the coronavirus relief bill that was passed earlier, bipartisan support for that. the trick is that polls like that, which we've seen for years, often don't translate into actual election victories when it comes down to actually stepping into the ballot box. republicans have successfully made other democratic presidents pay for being seen as a big spender. the president is saying only the wealthy will be taxed, people who make $400,000 or more a year, but it's a salient issue for republicans, a way of uniting their party which is

very divided. republicans love talking about democrats spending money and raising taxes because it bridges their own very, very, very deep divide. and that's one of the dynamics we'll see. whether that, you know, translates into coherent opposition or whether some republicans go along with some sort of infrastructure because they too would like to build some roads and bridges, that's the big test for president biden. there is room potentially for a bipartisan deal at least on some of the infrastructure spending he's talking about. >> let me look ahead to june, jeff, when the president takes his first trip overseas as commander in chief. he's heading to britain for the g-7 summit. what do you think specifically will be president biden's focus during these talks? >> i think in large part it will be another message that america is back on the world stage, i an ally, that there will be no more big fights with nato, no more big fights with the europeans, which you saw repeatedly during the trump administration.

they'll talk about climate change, i'm sure. he'll talk about mutual defense, and russia, especially if they add an additional visit where he can talk face-to-face with vladimir putin. the broad message they want to send on that trip, it's his first out of country trip, is that message of, america is back, the bipartisan -- or not just bipartisan but the ally relationship that these two worlds, the old world of europe and the united states, have built for so many decades, is back on track. >> speaking of back, i hope you, peter and jeff, will come back very soon. good to see you both. thank you, guys. next, what would donald trump have to worry about if rudy giuliani gets indicted? and later, coming up roses. steve kornacki's big board magic pays off big time. his mastery knows no bounds.

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new concern today that trump's inner circle could become part of the mix in the fallout of the fbi raid on his former lawyer rudy giuliani. two people familiar with the investigation telling nbc news the feds are seeking evidence linking giuliani to efforts to oust u.s. envoy to ukraine marie yovanovitch. here is what another former trump lawyer, michael cohen,

told my colleague jonathan capehart a short time ago. >> rudy knows what's on his cellphone, what's in his emails, what's in these chats he may have on encrypted apps. what about the possibility that donald trump is actually named in these communications, or don junior or jared or ivanka? maria yovanovitch, they already know what they have with her. everything else they're going to be able to find on those communication devices is just icing on the cake. >> giuliani has not been charged with any wrongdoing. joining me now to discuss it all, glenn kirschner, msnbc legal analyst and former federal prosecutor. i'm curious what you make of this. should anyone besides rudy giuliani be concerned about this investigation? >> you know, i think so, alex, because we've heard a lot about rudy giuliani's home, office, and electronic devices being searched by fbi agents pursuant

to a federal judge issuing a search warrant because there was probable cause to believe a crime had been committed and there was evidence of crime in rudy giuliani's home, office, and electronic devices. so now the next question becomes what information might those search warrants yield. we've already heard rudy giuliani on the talking circuit say this is an illegal search warrant. well, a federal judge who issued it would beg to differ. we've heard rudy giuliani complaining that there are all kinds of privileged communications between attorney and client and that may very well be so, but what we haven't heard much about, alex, is that if an attorney and a client are engaged in criminal activity together, guess what, prosecutors can pierce the attorney/client privilege and can actually use those communications as evidence of a crime. >> so to your point, there's another former federal prosecutor who is also making the case giuliani's legal

trouble could be trump's legal trouble too. but if trump says he never directed giuliani to do what he did, does that get him off the hook? >> anything that trump says can be tested for truthfulness and accuracy. i can't tell you how many folks i've prosecuted who said, i didn't commit the crime. that's not necessarily a winning defense. we've heard a lot about foreign agent registration act violations that rudy giuliani is being investigated for. i think there are larger concerns. for example, if, hypothetically, rudy giuliani and president trump were involved in collecting up information from a foreign government, particularly information that might have been false, from russian assets or intelligence, and then using it to impact u.s. elections, that could expose them to liability under any number of federal statutes. >> so again, back to the beginning here, for federal investigators to get a search warrant, to confiscate devices

belonging to a lawyer who represented a president of the united states, put that into perspective here, how strong does' case job in terms of probable cause? how convincing did it have to be to get a judge to to sign off? >> alex, there's probable cause and then there's probable cause. that is the one and only standard to have a search warrant issued, but i can tell you as a former federal prosecutor, when we sought to search a lawyer's office, a lawyer's computer and a lawyer's communications, we were keenly aware of the attorney/client relationship and the privileged information that we as prosecutors were duty-bound to preserve. so, when we decided whether we had enough evidence to apply for a search warrant for a lawyer, i can tell you, probable cause better be probable cause plus, plus, plus. it better be extremely strong. and then there are doj

procedures where it has to be vetted nearly to the top of the doj supervision chain, the deputy attorney general, number two, who is now lisa monaco. this application for a search warrant for rudy giuliani would have been vetted over and over and over again. and the evidence would not have been what we call bear probable cause. i'm betting it was probable cause plus, plus, plus. >> well, i plus, plus, plus thank you, my friend. beating the odds, steve kornacki, the only nbc analyst to predict the winner of the kentucky derby. he's going to do it next. he'll tell you what to do. y, you're in the right place. my seminars are a great tool to help young homeowners who are turning into their parents. now, remember, they're not programs. they're tv shows. you woke up early. no one cares. yes. so, i was using something called homequote explorer from progressive to easily compare home insurance rates. was i hashtagging? progressive can't help you from becoming your parents, but we can help you compare rates

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147th kentucky derby. the 3-year-old horse taking the race with jockey john velasquez and lead trainer, bob baffert, who has won his seventh kentucky derby title. despite the 12 to 1 odds, there was one nbc analyst who correctly predicted this year's winner. big board aficionado, steve kornacki. take a look. >> i scoured the board, i have 11 different theories. here's one. bob baffert, six-time kentucky derby winner, has a horse that can get at or near the front of the race in double digit odds, 7-1. i'll take bob baffert, 12-1, medina spirit. >> steve kornacki, you should have seen me at home. i was screaming at home. steve called it, steve called it. you were the only one. we bow down to political polling numbers, now even game odds in

the nfl. but the kentucky derby, how did you do it? >> i've got to say, there's an old expression, even a broken clock is right twice a day. and i think that probably -- this is my first time doing it on air for nbc. all i have to say, if i had been on air for the last 25 years giving you my picks, i would be 1 for 25 right now. it was unbelievable to me that this horse came in. i was watching that race play out. you should have seen me and heard me when he crossed the wire in first place. i couldn't believe what i was watching the entire race. you hear me saying in the clip there, my theory of the race is that he would go to the front, but watching that race, i'm waiting for the 7 horse, mandaloun, to run past him. there were so many moments when i thought it was going to happen. you heard the trainer of medina spirit, bob baffert, just talking about what a workhorse that -- blue-collar horse, would not give up the lead, wouldn't let anybody pass him and what he did in the stretch of that race.

even i'm watching it, hoping he can somehow hang on. but i -- so many horses i've been with through the years have wilted in that situation. medina spirit didn't. what a rush. anybody who's ever had a winner knows that feeling. it's amazing. >> winner is the keyword here. yes, it was a matter of pride, you picked t you did it, but you got some winnings. on social media, we can see you standing there with this wad of cash, i'm like, how much. talk about what you did. how much did you bet and how much did you win, if you don't mind me asking? >> this is the thing. again, anyone who's ever had a big win at the track. it's the first thing you do. you tell everybody around you. you start calling everybody you knew, people you went to high school, college with. so, i think i certainly had that instinct as soon as medina spirit won the race. yeah, 12 to 1 odds, put $100 on medina spirit to win, so, you know, you got that back in 12 to 1 and a little more on top of that. so, yeah, it was -- yeah, i tried some of -- the exacta, it

was a huge payout if you got first and second place together, first, second, third. that second place horse, mandaloun, i did not have him in the exacta or tri. i would have retired. >> i was going to say, you wouldn't be here today. steve, i hope you do it again next year, although no pressure, right? >> i think i should retire with an undefeated record. can only go bad from here. >> no. you're going to go back, i hope. steve kornacki, thank you for coming in and doing a little o.t. >> thank you for letting me gloat. a disturbing trend may be all the convincing younger americans should need to realize they better get vaccinated. the perils of the vaccination holdouts coming up. ccination holdouts coming up our customers, and new ways for them to reach you... is what business is all about. it's what the united states postal service has always been about. so as your business changes, we're changing with it. with e-commerce that runs at the speed of now.

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