not one of them. >> life in prison for those two is just fine. i hope they live a long, long life. this sunday, the return of big government. >> we have to prove democracy still works, that our government still works and we can deliver for our people. >> president biden proposing a huge increase in government spending. >> american jobs plan will be the biggest increase in non-research and development on record. >> $6 trillion on social spending, infrastructure, climate change, health care and more. >> these are investments we made together as one country, investments that only the government was in a position to make. >> republicans push back, calling mr. biden divisive and fiscally irresponsible. >> he could have walked up and said i want all of you to send every bit of your money and freedom to washington. >> how much will congress

approve and how would we pay for it? my guest this morning, treasury secretary janet yellen, senator bernie sanders of vermont and senator rob portman of ohio, plus, amid anger over policing -- >> it was a kill shot to the back of the head. >> could this comment from senator tim scott -- >> america is not a racist country. >> -- complicate efforts at police reform? also, states have pled, the winners, the losers and the big unanswered questions after the new census numbers come in. joining me for insight an analysis are nbc news capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt, your white house correspondent for the pbs "newshour," former democratic senator claire mccaskill of missouri and lanhee chen a fellow of stanford university's hoover institution. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck

todd. a good sunday morning. in his 1981 inaugural address president ronald reagan captured the nation's growing frustration with big government. >> government is not the solution to our problem. government is the problem. >> 15 years later, 1996, a democratic president, bill clinton, admitted the defeat of activist government. >> the era of big government is over. [ applause ] >> then this past wednesday in his speech to congress, president joe biden tried to put a stake in both of those ideas declarg the air offa big government being over is now over. in the process, mr. biden also made clear that the idea that he intends to be a transitional president, well, that's also

over, too. he intends to be a transformational one. the president's goals are ambitious, far-reaching and, yes, expensive. will voters care about the scope of mr. biden's plans? here is one clue. 55% of adults in our new nbc news poll says the government should do more to solve our problems, versus 41% who say the government is doing too much. how about, will voters care about the price tag? possibly. president trump and the republicans may have made it easier for mr. biden by spending big themselves, cutting taxes for the wealthy and running up the deficit on their watch. mr. biden is making a $6 trillion bet that promoting popular programs will be popular, and he'll be rewarded for getting things done, long before the actual bill comes due. >> i don't have any inordinate faith in government, but there's certain things only the government can do. >> president biden making the case for the largest expansion of government programs in decades. >> these are investments we made

together as one country, investments that only the government was in a position to make. >> it's a reimagining of the role in government in american life, extending the argument made by barack obama but never fully implemented. given his political constraints. >> we've never been a people that place all our faith in government to solve our problems. we shouldn't want to. we don't think the government is the source of all our problems either. >> it gained momentum during the democratic primary campaign that pushed the party to the left. >> i get a little bit tired of democrats afraid of big ideas. >> the $1.8 trillion american families plan proposes universal pre-k, two years of tuition-free community college and expanded paid family and medical leave. it comes on top of a $2.2 trillion infrastructure proposal and after a $1.9 trillion covid relief package. to pay for some of these initiatives, white house officials are proposing tax increases on corporations and the wealthiest americans. >> the american family plan does

four things, and we pay for it all. one, without raising the deficit. >> biden is betting americans are open to an activist government. 82% of democrats, 60% of independents and even a quarter of republicans say government should do more to solve the country's problems. it's the opening of what is likely to be a summer slug fest. >> there's no such thing as a free lunch. >> think about how much money he's spending. >> he doesn't want to talk about how it's going to be paid for. >> if i ever hear joe biden is a moderate again, i'm going to throw up. >> republicans now concerned about deficits argue donald trump's 2017 tax cuts would pay for themselves. >> i worry about deficits, but you won't get out of this problem until you grow the economy. >> i'm totally convinced this is a revenue neutral bill, actual lay revenue producer. >> it wasn't and the deficit grew substantially. now some senate democrats are already hinting at deficit spending. hawaii's brian schatz saying i'm

not a big pay-for guy. connecticut's chris murphy, i don't know that it fully needs to be paid for. montana's john tester, i think we should find a way to pay for half of it up front. to get his plans through congress, biden needs to get centrist democrats on board. >> we need to pay for it. we do. >> and the president has to hold progressives who are defying the white house and pursuing a massive expansion of medicare after a health care overhaul was left out of biden's plan. >> i think it's the wrong approach. we need to take on the lobbyists and big pharma companies that are so willing to pour millions into defeating any kind of reform. >> joining me now is treasury secretary janet yellen. secretary yellen, welcome to "meet the press." >> thanks so much. pleasure to be with you. >> let me start with what is on a lot of folks' minds at least in washington which is simply how do you pay for it. put it in layman's terms here, secretary yellen, how you believe the administration, what

you guys believe is the best way to pay for these plans. >> well, first of all, we think the plans are extremely important and necessary to invest in our economy so that we can be competitive and have families and children succeed, invest in infrastructure, in r&d. and the things that shore up middle class prosperity, education, child care and health care. we've proposed to pay for these two packages by raising the tax rate on corporations above its current level of 21%, but keeping it under the level it

was for decades at 35%, and to close loopholes that incent american corporations to shift their income abroad to tax havens. so right now corporate income tax amounts to only 7% of total federal tax revenue, and corporate income has increased as a share of gdp, and we're proposing changes to the corporate tax system that would close loopholes. this comes, also, in the context of global negotiations to try to stop the decades' long race to the bottom among countries in competing for business by lowering their corporate tax rates, and we feel that will be successful. the president has pledged -- >> go ahead. >> -- no family earning under $400,000 will pay a penny more

in taxes, and we're sticking to the pledge. the other part of paying for this comes from raising taxes back to the level they were at, 39.6% before 2017, for families making over $400,000, and for the tiny group, .3% of americans making more than a million dollars, that they would be asked to pay on capital gains and dividends that same rate rather than the far lower rate it is now. president biden believes, and i agree, that workers shouldn't face higher taxes on their wage income than wealthy individuals do on their rewards to capital. >> look, i wanted you to lay that out there because i wanted folks to hear it. there's quite a few democratic

senators that are now talking about the idea of, maybe we don't need to raise all these taxes. you made a case, for instance, on infrastructure, that these are investments and that they're worry of deficit spending. if this bill comes back to the president without these pay-fors, is the president still going to sign it? >> well, i'm not going to speak for what the president will do in a negotiation, but he has made clear that he believes that permanent increases in spending should be paid for, and i agree. i think we're in a good fiscal position. interest rates are historically low. they've been that way for a long time, and it's likely they'll stay that way into the future. but we do need fiscal space to be able to address emergencies like the one that we've been in with respect to the pandemic. we don't want to use up all of that fiscal space.

and over the long run, deficits need to be contained to keep our federal finances on a sustainable basis. so i believe that we should pay for these historic investments. there will be a big return. i expect productivity to rise and will be great returns from investing in research and development and enabling families to participate with paid leave and child care support in the workforce. so i think it's true that a stronger economy will generate more tax revenues, but i think the safest thing is to pay for them -- and we're doing it in a way that's fair. i should also mention that an important way for paying for this is increasing tax compliance. it's estimated that underpayment of taxes that are really due is

costing us, the federal government, about $7 trillion over a decade. and there's an important proposal here to increase compliance to fund the irs so that -- and this is a matter of fairness -- to increase and collect the tax revenue that's due under our tax code. >> there's some concerns that all of this spending is going to lead to inflation issues. i know right now the current inflation is arguably more of a supply chain issue right now than anything else. how do we avoid what happened in the '70s with inflation, where basically a bunch of spending for 20 and 30 years got us to a point where we suddenly were in an inflation spiral? how is it that the same thing won't happen again over the next 20 years? >> so the spending that's been proposed in the jobs plan and

the families plan, it comes into effect once the economy is back on track and the spending from the rescue plan that's meant to help us get on track, after that stimulus is spent, it's spread out quite evenly over eight to ten years so the boost to demand is moderate. the federal reserve has the tools to address inflation should it arise. we will monitor that very carefully. we're proposing that the spending be paid for, and i don't believe that inflation will be an issue, but if it becomes an issue, we have tools to address it. these are historic investments that we need to make our economy productive and fair. >> secretary yellen, it's always a lot to get to and explain when it comes to monetary policy, how

we pay for things and all this. i really appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective with us. thank you. >> thank you, chuck. joining me now is republican senator rob portman of ohio. senator portman, welcome back to "meet the press." earlier this week -- >> thank you, chuck. >> good to see you. earlier this week you seemed to lament and be a little, i would say, skeptical of the outreach you're now receiving from the white house. you said you were hopeful, and then after covid relief, you felt it wasn't sincere. senator capito says she feels as though her exchanges with the white house are much different this time than they were over covid relief. would you concur with that? >> yes. i think it's going to be a better opportunity. frankly, if the white house is going to work with us, this is a deal we can do. infrastructure has always been bipartisan. it's a different sort of a proposition than some of the

spending that secretary yellen talked about, the $6 trillion in new spending. only about 20% of the jobs bill that the president has proposed goes to real infrastructure. that part of it can be paid for. it can be paid for with user fees, paid for with some of the covid money that's already gone out. states would love to use it for infrastructure. it can be paid for in different ways as we have in the past, like ppps, public-private partnerships, but also infrastructure bank. several long-term capital expenditures. it's very possible, chuck, we get a deal here, if they're willing to do it. we'll see. with covid, you're right. a bunch of us went to the white house and made a proposal. the president indicated he wanted to negotiate, but unfortunately the next morning they changed their mind. let's hope we don't have a repeat of that. i think we can come up with a good bill that's bipartisan and one that will survive over time because it will be more sustainable with republican and democratic support.

>> you made a similar case about how, hey, this is capital expenditures. most companies, when they make capital expenditures, they borrow money. so is there a case to be made that maybe on the physical infrastructure that deficit spending is actually the way to go, especially since the pay-for here is going to be arguably the largest sticking point between the two sides? >> i think the way to go is to depend on user fees, as we always have. about $200 billion will come in over the next five years through the highway trust fund alone. also, through the government being able to borrow through lower rates. using the government's ability to borrow at lower rates and over time to be able to pay for these projects. it's not deficit spending, but it is, because it's a capital expenditure, paid for in a different way. that's one reason we can get to this. on the covid side, these states are getting lots of money. they don't know what to do with it in many cases.

some are talking about sending it back. others would like to use it for infrastructure. normally the ratio is 20% local, 80% federal. there are plenty of states, including my own, that want to spend it on infrastructure. and be willing to pay a higher percentage, maybe 50-50, some 100%. the difference between 20% and 50 or 100, certainly would be used to pay for infrastructure. there's lots of opportunities to get to yes. i would like to comment on what secretary yellen said about the tax increases if that's okay. >> i will. i want to ask you about the issue of user fees. you have proposed them, and you're not the only republican that has. do you realize the head of the republican senate campaign committee has basically vowed to run -- to take a gas tax if that's what is raised and essentially try to use it as a political weapon. do you understand if democrats may be skeptical of this offer? >> you're talking about increasing the gas tax. i was referring to the $200

billion that comes in the door from the existing gas tax. >> you talked about user fees. the gas tax is a user fee. >> yeah. by the way, another user fee that makes a lot of sense, as we're moving to more and more electric cars and hybrids. i'm a hybrid driver myself. my hybrid truck should pay for something to use towards roads and bridges. some sort of fee makes a lot of sense to make sure there's a level playing field and there's fairness there. there are ways to get there. my point, chuck, democrats and republicans alike are meeting. we've got some phone calls scheduled this week. i met with the white house last week. there's a way forward here if the white house is willing to work with us. >> i want to ask about the other parts that president biden is proposing. for instance, on the issue of education, he makes an argument that, for years, we funded essentially k-12 and it's a time the government essentially add four years of education it guarantees, two on the front end, two on the back end. before we get to whether to pay for that, should the government

be guaranteeing four more years of education in the 21st century? >> well, typically it's not a federal government responsibility. as you know, the feds probably pay about 6% or 7% of k-12 education. i think we can provide incentives for it. i think pre-k makes sense. it's good to give kids a better start in life, no question about it. that's why we support head start at the federal level. with regard to community colleges, i'm a big fan of what community colleges do. what's more exciting to me is the possibility that we would use some of the federal support, including pell grants, for worker retraining. that's what's really needed is skills training, and the opportunity for people to get a relatively short-term training session, to get an industry-recognized certificate in things like welding, machining, coding, hospital techs. those are the jobs we need, middle skills jobs. i would make more of an emphasis on that. that's the reality of there, a lot of jobs going unfilled. something like 500,000 jobs in

manufacturing right now being offered and not filled. one of the reasons is the skills gap. let's close the skills gap. to me that would be the most effective way to use that funding. >> before i let you go, one of the things you said in deciding not to run for re-election. you lamented the fact that bipartisanship is not rewarding. you are somebody that has voted with president biden quite a bit. you, yourself, have noted that you don't seem to get credit that you've been one of the more bipartisan republicans when it comes to working with democrats. so why not stay and fight and make that point? i know the political climate does punish that. you're right. punishing it on the left and on the right. why not stay and fight to change that attitude? >> well, i'm in for another two years. there's lots of fights to be had including -- i'd love to talk about the higher taxes that janet yellen talked about. it doesn't make our economy more competitive. it does the opposite. i respect her, but she's wrong on that.

by raising the taxes the way she wants to, the congressional budget office says 70% of the tax cuts went into workers' pockets with higher wages and benefits. the exact same thing is going to happen if you raise the taxes. they're talking about raising the taxes five times higher than the taxes were cut in 2017. this makes america not competitive around the world. everybody thought that was important at the time. my decision was, in large measure, a personal one. i've been doing this off and on for 30 years, working in four administrations, in congress in both the house and the senate. it's time to give someone else a chance. i'm going to stay involved. for the next couple years, i'll be very engaged in trying to make sure on a bipartisan bases we get things done for the american people and not continue the partisan fights, but figure out how to find that common ground. i think we can. infrastructure is a great example. it's always been bipartisan in the past. republicans proposed the biggest infrastructure plan in the history of congress just last week.

we're ready to go. we want to roll up our sleeves and get to work and make america's economy more competitive, not by raising taxes, but by expanding infrastructure. >> senator rob portman, republican from ohio. thanks for coming on. it's nice to have policy exchanges between you, secretary yellen and the person we'll have next. thanks very much. when we come back, bernie sanders lost the battle for the democratic presidential nomination, but did he wind up winning the war of ideas. i'll talk to senator sanders next. next prilosec otc uses a layed-reo a that works to turn down acid production, blocking heartburn at the source. with just one pill a day, you get 24-hour heartburn protection. take the prilosec otc two-week challenge. and see the difference for yourself. prilosec otc, 1 pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn.

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. welcome back. two times, in 2016 and 2020 bernie sanders ran for president as an unapologetic progressive, seeking vast increases in government and social spending. both times he lost the democratic nomination to hillary clinton in 2016 and joe biden last year. but with president biden's proposals for vast new spending, it's fair to ask did senator sanders lose the battles but win

the war of ideas. i saw you do that smirk when i did that tease about that. go ahead and answer the question. do you feel as if, when you look at your two campaigns, yes, you're not president, but do you feel as if you won the war of ideas inside your party? >> it's not just me. i think what you saw is millions of people standing up, grassroots activists standing up saying, you know what? at a time of massive income wealth inequality, and this is a radical idea, just maybe government should represent the needs of the struggling working class and middle class and not just the 1% in wealthy campaign contributors. all over this country, people said, look, there are massive problems exacerbated by the pandemic, and i think president biden looked around and said, you know what, we've got to address those problems, not worry about the rich and the powerful. so we are beginning to make some progress in dealing with issues that have been neglected for decades.

>> i'm curious. your focus, when it comes to seeing these plans get passed, how important is the pay-for part how much of this in your mind is, you know what, deficit spending, these are investments and you'll get return, and how important do you think it is that you reform the tax code and use that to pay for this? >> i think, number one, most importantly we have to deal with the crises facing this country. we have massive and wealth inequality. half our people live on paycheck-to-paycheck. you have to raise the minimum wage to a living wage. we've got to do that. we have a infrastructure that's collapsing. we have to address the existential threat of climate change. when you do that, chuck, when you make those investments, we create millions of good paying jobs. we're the only major country not to guarantee health care to all people as a right, the only major country not to have paid family and medical leave.

we pay the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs. hundreds of thousands of kids can't afford to go to college, and millions leave school deeply in debt. you know what? you've got to address those issues. meanwhile, you've got two people on top who own more wealth than the bottom 40% of america. you have major corporation after major corporation not paying one nickel in federal income tax. warren buffett, one of the richest guys in the world, reminds us that the effective tax rate for working families is higher than it is for the billionaire class. so in terms of pay for, yeah, i do think we need progressive taxation which says to the very rich -- biden says the floor should be $400,000. nobody under that should pay more in taxes. yes, the very rich and large corporations should start paying their fair share of taxes to help us rebuild america and create the jobs that we need. >> if you have to make the choice because some of your democratic senate colleagues seem to have a little nervousness about voting for these tax increases, but they

will vote for the spending. will you take the spending if it doesn't come with the tax increases? >> the devil is in the details, obviously. but i think what has got to happen is we have got to begin addressing the enormous crises facing this country, and that is what i think the president is trying to do. i think once we start discussing these issues in the congress, there will be differences of opinion, but i think there is a consensus, at least within the democratic caucus that now is the time to start protecting working families and the middle class and not just the 1%. >> one of the things not included in the president's plan was some things that you wanted to see, including lower the eligibility age to medicare in particular being the biggest one there. i want to ask you about it in conjunction with this statement that james carville made, and i want to bring it up here. it has to do with joe manchin. the democratic party can't be more liberal than senator joe

manchin. that's the fact. we don't have the votes. i bring this up because senator manchin has said he's not in favor of lowering the eligibility age. do you think that's why joe biden didn't include your provision in his plan? >> no, i don't think so. james carville can live in his world. i don't think he's terribly relevant to what happens in congress right now. here is the story, very simple story, is that right now for the last 55 years, since medicare was developed in 1965, it has not included coverage for dental care, hearing aids and eyeglasses. and i can tell you in vermont and all over this country, you've got senior citizens whose teeth are rotting in their mouth, older people who can't talk to their grandchildren because they can't hear them because they can't afford a hearing aid and people can't read a newspaper because they can't afford glasses.

so to say dental care, hearing aids and eyeglasses should be a part of medicare makes all the sense in the world. second of all, we're going to pay for this. this is a pay-for. right now, as i think every american understands, we pay the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs. we're getting ripped off every day by the pharmaceutical industry, who in some cases charges us ten times more for the same drug sold in canada or other countries. what we want to do is what the american people want to do. we want to negotiate prescription drug prices with the industry through medicare. when you do that, you save about $500 billion, and that can cover the cost of dental care, eyeglasses and hearing aids under medicare as well as lowering the eligibility age to 60. that's what we have to do and we have a pay-for for that. >> before i let you go. obviously the virus is pretty out of control in india, not in good shape in brazil. these are two big countries that

could have an impact on us, both our health and our economy. our vaccine distribution -- we have a lot here. should we start sharing it faster than we are now, particularly when you see what's going on in our hemisphere and in india? should we be more aggressive here? it seems we've been, some might argue, a bit overly cautious with our vaccine supply. >> a couple of things. yes, we have to make sure every american gets vaccinated as quickly as possible. i think, not only do we have a moral responsibility to help the rest of the world, it's in our own self-interest. if this pandemic continues to spread in other countries, it's going to come back and bite us at one point or another. the second thing we need to do is not only make sure excess vaccines get to countries that need it, we should deal with the issue of the world trade organization of protecting the intellectual property rights of the drug companies. i think what we've got to say

right now to the drug companies when millions of lives are at stake around the world, yes, allow other countries to have these intellectual property rights so that they can produce the vaccines that are desperately needed in poor countries. there is something morally objectionable about rich countries being able to get that vaccine, and yet millions and millions of people in poor countries are unable to afford it. >> glad you brought up the intellectual property rights issue. we want to get manufacturing started as soon as possible in some of these remote areas. senator bernie sanders, thanks for coming on and sharing your perspective. >> thank you very much. when we come back, president biden has decided to go big and spend big. why he may not care how high the price tag is. that's next.

welcome back. the panel is with me. joining me is nbc news capitol hill, kasie hunt yamiche alcindor, white house correspondent for pbs "newshour," former democratic senator claire mccaskill and lanhee chin from the stanford's hoover institute. senator mccaskill, we're seeing more openness to where you don't have to pay for all of this. where is this realistically heading? are we going for half of what's been proposed on the tax increases at the end of the day and more deficit spending? >> probably. what chuck schumer has to do is

work through many, many senators. it's not just joe manchin and kyrsten sinema. there are others concerned about competitiveness and making sure we target these tax increases for the people who aren't paying their fair share. will it be 28 in terms of a corporate rate? maybe 25, maybe 26, maybe 27. will everything on the wish list get through? no, probably not. but at the end of the day, chuck schumer is going to work through those senators and try to get them all to agree, and then once he gets close to 50, like 49.5, then he starts working on the republicans to get it across the finish line. >> it was interesting. it was notable that janet yellen -- she mentioned the specific percentage rates of some tax increase proposals, but not the corporate rate. which i think was notable. lanhee, rich lowry made the point this week, there's no tea party.

it doesn't seem as if this version of the republican party is as allergic to the debt, frankly, as the version of the republican party that rob portman grew up in. >> well, look, the republican party should feel like they need to make a case on the value of fiscal responsibility. that is something that i think is an important case to be made. if you look at the proposals the president has put forward, what is clear is that the public, as your polling shows, does want the government to do more, but they also want the government to live within its means. there is a significant amount of support for a skinnied down package that focuses on transportation infrastructure, water infrastructure, somewhere in the neighborhood of $600 billion. that's a much more responsible approach than the several trillion dollar jobs plan the president put forward. i think republicans need to make the case on why it is that it's important to have packages that address the need, but also do so in a responsible way.

in the long run, actually, independent estimates suggest the president's jobs plan shrinks the size of the economy over the long run. these are the kind of points republicans need to be making as they debate these issues. >> kasie, this is your beat. it seems like republicans and even joe manchin and other democrats, want to do this more piecemeal. is this where we're headed? are we going to see a series of the physical infrastructure bills and that's what happens, and then we'll find out whatever is left at the end of the summer, and then democrats decide what to do? >> i do think that's a possibility, chuck. i don't think it's been firmly decided. as i was listening to senator portman earlier in the broadcast, i thought he sounded more optimistic than i might have expected him to, more open to potentially doing something like that, and i do think, if they are going to pass something that has republican votes, it's likely not going to be everything that president biden wants. i think there are a lot of

democrats who are assuming that they are, at the end of the day, going to have to go it alone, especially, frankly, if they want to pay for it. i think you've hit on exactly the right tension here. there are no republicans who are interested in raising these taxes the way democrats are talking about, but there is some nervousness among especially some of the pro business democrats who, frankly, are afraid to step out and do that in public because of exactly what bernie sanders outlined, senator sanders outlined in your conversation with him. that's going to be a behind-the-scenes dynamic that will drive a lot of this. >> yamiche, progressives are getting a lot of what they want, but not happy about the health care provisions. are they so unhappy, it would muddy up everything else? or is this one of the things they may rhetorically complain about but accept it if nothing else changes?

>> i think that's a big question that needs to be answered. right now it sounds as though progressives are definitely wanting to push at least to try to get medicare for all, to try to get some of the medicare changes that senator sanders was just outlining for you. overall, when you talk to progressive lawmakers, they are largely happy with what they're seeing from the biden administration. you had larry cohen saying his staffing wouldn't have been better if it was bernie sanders that was president. we have progressives who are saying we want a bit more and it is our job to push it. in fact, we are getting a lot of what we want. $6 trillion in spending, if you add up all the biden plans right now. the biden administration is really leaning in on the idea that they can expand the idea of bipartisan to include all the republicans who want to see money for their cities and they want to see it go past roads and bridges to impact their lives, home health care workers, community college, all the different things that the biden administration is proposing. i think it's going to be a big challenge to get republicans to go along because the 2017 tax

cuts were their signature thing that they want to keep there. >> that's why i smell deficit spending coming in a big way. i want to quickly play a comment from senator scott and the republican response and get you guys to react on the other side. here it is. >> today, kids are being taught that the color of their skin defines them again and if they look a certain way, they're an oppressor. hear me clearly, america is not a racist country. >> yamiche and kasie, this sparked a huge debate among quite a few folks about the role of race in the history of america. here is my curiosity, yamiche. did his comments put bipartisan police reform at risk? >> i don't think so, talking to sources. if you saw the day after president biden as well as vice president harris echoed that sentiment, they don't believe america is a racist country. they did say something senator scott did not say, there are

consequences from slavery that have embedded in american society, from health care to education, how the coronavirus pandemic exposed and exploited real inequalities in our country. there is an inflection point after derek chauvin being found guilty of murdering george floyd that feels like lawmakers will be able to get some sort of bill, at least negotiate it and get far in those discussions. i don't think the specific comment from senator scott will upend that. i think democrats are trying to say what can we get done on this issue because it is so all encompassing when you look at how policing and african-americans are dealing in this country. >> kasie, the amount of optimism about a bipartisan police reform deal coming to fruition, are you that optimistic?

>> i am optimistic. republicans have a strong messenger in tim scott. they're lucky to have him. they trust him. if it happens, you'll see the vast majority of republicans go with it. it's not going to be tim scott and nine other republicans. i do think it's possible. when we come back, so you think you know who the political winners and losers are in the next census. think again. that's next. that's next. so now we use our swiffer sweeper and dusters. the fluffy fibers? they pick up dust easily. grabbing it in all those hard-to-reach places. gotcha!!! and for our floors, sweeper's textured cloths lock all kinds of dirt, dust and pet hair. unlike my vacuum, it sneaks under and around places. look at that!! dust free and hassle free. stop cleaning and start swiffering.

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"data download" time. the census figures came out. it impacts not just the balance of power in congress, but votes. in the electoral college. let's first look at the impact on the presidential election. with the new data, electoral votes changed in 13 states and particularly in the northeast, new york, pennsylvania, michigan, illinois and california each lost a vote. by the way in california, the first time they have ever lost a seat due to the census. a number of states where republicans have done well in recent years, texas, north carolina, florida and montana, all gained a vote. texas, by the way, the only state to add more than one vote to their electoral college total. at first glance it seems as if republicans benefit. they will gain congressional seats in the short run, but these states have been changing over the last 50 years and they continue to. it's too soon to know the impact on the next decade of presidential elections. you have to look back to georgia to remember that. in fact, we looked at the

biggest shifts going back to 1970. there's a pretty clear pattern, no surprise, the u.s. population has been mooing south and west over the past 50 years. new york is the big loser. it's down 13 seats in 50 years while texas gained 13, florida 14. when we come back, what n

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legislatures in eight states have passed laws restricting voter access. at the same time, similar bills have been introduced in 39 other states. we don't know the results of those yet. there's been crackdown on protesters. five states limiting the rights of protesters. florida passed a law that would grant legal immunity to somebody who drove through protesters blocking a road. 27 other states have already had bills introduced that would crack down on protesters. 19 states have passed new laws that loosen gun restrictions including tennessee, which now allows people to carry handguns without seeking a permit. every state in the country has had bills introduced that would do one thing on the gun issue, loosen restrictions. finally, seven states have passed laws that would prevent transgender youth from participating in student athletics. we know similar bills have been introduced in another 26 states. we don't know where that's going. lanhee chen, this is the first 100 days of the republican party.

what are you learning from it? if the states are laboratories for democracy, what does this say about the future of the gop? >> i think cultural politics have always been part of the republican party. just as you've got those examples, you have a number of republican governors not focused on these thing, char bee baker, on these things, charlie baker, larry hogan. a longer run vision of what the party needs to do to be more successful in urban areas, southern california where i live, a lot of the republican party, the dialogue seems to be what the kids call owning the libs. that's probably not what's going to make the republican party successful. the example set by baker and hogan and others, those will be the kind of things that will make the republican party a successful governing coalition nationally again. that's what i look for. >> you sound, some might say, overly optimistic. claire mccaskill, you saw this a

decade earlier in missouri. where is this headed? where do you think this is going in other states? >> i have to believe that it's not good for the republican party. they've become the party of grievance. it's not about the budget. it's about the border. it's about playing to people's fears and making that the centerpiece of who they are as a party. i've got to tell you, local journalism and the demise of it has played a role in this, chuck. it's very difficult to get good information about some of the nut balls in state legislatures right now because there are so few local journalists left. that's another problem we'll have to tackle if we want to get back to some kind of normalcy in the state capitals. >> even in the state of florida, the state's largest newspaper has to share a capitol bureau. it's absurd. yamiche, do democrats say, you want a culture war in the gop? let's go. or do they focus on kitchen

table issues? >> based on my conversations with white house officials and democratic lawmakers, they're trying to lean in on the idea that they can deliver things to the american people, services, policies that will impact their lives and better their lives rather than getting involved in the culture wars that the republican party is so focused on. you can see in republicans, that they are really leaning in on strategies that helped president trump win in 2016 but failed in 2020. voting rights, protesting, the transgender laws, they're trying to solve problems that largely don't exist on a large scale. 96% of protests were peaceful. this is where republicans are trying to have their energy be because they're trying to scare their voters in some ways to the polls. >> kasie hunt, i want -- speaking of the culture wars. kevin brady was on "meet the press daily" with me friday. i won't play the clip because we're short on time. i asked him three times to give liz cheney of vote of confidence. he didn't do it.

he's a retiring former committee chair, not from the far right fringe of the gop. how much trouble is liz cheney in? >> i watched that interview, chuck, and it struck me for sure. i do think there's a reason why liz cheney didn't really rule out the possibility she may run for president because she may be losing support in the house of representatives. i think there are a lot of people who are with her behind the scenes, but they're concerned that the public version of it will jeopardize their ability to take back the majority. that's where the tension is. >> we shall see if she can make it through the month, let alone the rest of her term. that's all we have for today. thank you all for watching. we'll be back next week for mother's day, because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

look, it's been another crazy week from biden making his first address to congress to the news that boris johnson's phone number has somehow been available online for the past 15 years, to rudy giuliani's home being raided by the fbi an event i'm honestly surprised he didn't accidentally stream live on twitch whilst sitting on his phone. and there is new reporting on the giuliani raid, including who else was served with a warrant in the investigation. the question is where does this all lead? plus new developments in the gop civil war as the trump wing