welcome to monday. it's "meet the press daily." i'm kasie hunt in for chuck todd on a busy monday afternoon. the funeral service for andrew brown, junior, the black man shot and killed by police while they were trying to serve an arrest warrant is underway as family, friends and activists have gathered to mouth his death amid the escalating debate in america about policing. president biden is scheduled to deliver remarks in virginia on education and infrastructure as the white house ramps up talks on capitol hill for trillions of dollars in new federal programs. we will take you to the president's remarks as soon as they begin. we will begin today with the fallout happening inside the republican party as its embrace of former president trump's lies about the election continues to

roil the republican party. the number three republican in the house, liz cheney, is not backing down from her criticism of the former president and members of her own party, even throw there's a risk it could cost her her spot in leadership. support from the other leaders appears to be fraying. today, in response to a statement from trump pushing his false claims about the 2020 election, cheney fired back with a rebuke of many in her party saying, quote, the 2020 presidential election was not stolen. anyone who claims it was is spreading the big lie, turn their back on the rule of law and poisoning our democratic system. the reality is those lies and the forces behind them are dominant right now in the republican party. loyalty to trump remains the most important litmus test for the base. look at the scene at the utah republican convention this weekend where the party's 2012 presidential nominee, now senator mitt romney, got booed

and heckled as a communist. >> i'm not fan of our former president's character issues. [ booing ] aren't you embarrassed? >> wow. just another sign of how drastically the republican party has changed. no pun intended, lie whs ahead the party? joining me is leigh ann caldwell and jonathan lemire and carlos rabello. it's great to have you on board

this afternoon. i actually want to start with something that really i think helped crystallize why this is all so awkward and difficult. leigh ann, i want to go to you. i was sitting in the chamber earlier this week. i watched liz cheney on the floor essentially not speak to kevin mccarthy, even as she got a handshake from mitch mcconnell and a fist bump from president biden. kevin brady, who is not known as any firebrand. he is someone who -- he was the former chair of the ways and means committee. he has been a tax bill writer. he was on with chuck on this program. he refused multiple times to answer questions about cheney. let's watch that exchange. then we will talk about it. take a look. >> do you have a vote of confidence for liz cheney as your conference chair? >> chuck, for the third time, i will remind you that where we are as a conference is that we are absolutely unified in

stopping the socialist agenda. >> leigh ann, that was the third time chuck asked him the question, the third time he would said i would have a vote of confidence. the conference did vote to keep her in the role that she has. that seems to be changing. what is your sense of why? how much risk cheney is in right now. >> reporter: she's not getting a lot of support from leadership, publically, from her conference. kevin mccarthy declined to defend her multiple times. wouldn't even say if he would campaign for her in an upcoming primary that is expected against her. the thing -- reason things are changing is because representative cheney is not backing down. she is continuing to be defiant and make the point that the former president is not good for the republican party and that she's not going to buy into the

perpetuation of a continual lie of what happened in the 2020 election. she is going to stay there. more and more members question if she can stay in her position as conference chair. remind our viewers, in that position she's responsible for setting the message of the house republicans. members are saying, if she cannot be on the same page as most members in the conference, how can she do that? how can she lead the conference many a messaging battle to try to win back the house in the midterms in 2022? let's by clear. at the time being, there's not a vote that is scheduled to recall her. that has to happen in order for her to lose her position. that hasn't happened yet. she is safe. the very noticeable silence and the chill between kevin mccarthy

and liz cheney is palpable. i'm told by sources that this is going to rest with leader mccarthy on what happens with representative cheney. he hasn't given any indication to the conference just yet that he is going to try to get her removed from that position. we can expect -- it's possible that representative mccarthy is getting pressure from the former president behind the scenes. if he is not, he is probably very worried about that pressure from donald trump publically that could, he thinks, cost them the majority in 2022 and also to perhaps the opportunity to be speaker of the house after that election should they win back the majority. >> jonathan lemire -- forgive me, if i have to cut you off, because it sounds like we are a few minutes away from president biden. we will go to the remarks live. jon, it seems to me that as

leigh ann outlined, this is about kevin mccarthy wanting to be speaker of the house and them putting that ahead of what liz cheney believes is the number one priority for the republican party, which is making sure that donald trump is no longer allowed to be in power, but that those two goals are potentially in conflict. liz cheney is willing to say, if this means we lose, fine, at least we did the right thing. what's your sense of the role that the former president -- i know you covered him for years on the beat. the role he is playing in all of this. is there a way for -- it doesn't seem like there's a way for liz cheney to do anything differently based on the way she has spoken about this in the past. >> first of all, this would be far from first time a president cut me off. i think you identified it correctly, that liz cheney is someone who is staying with her principals and is on an island. there are few republicans with

her who are willing to defy former president trump. you played the clip from mitt romney being booed at the utah republican convention. he said, aren't you embarrassed to the crowd? the answer is no. for most republicans who are still siding with the former president. that means pledging loyalty to not just him but to the big lie, to the idea that the election was rigged and all these baseless claims of voter fraud, which, of course, we know are not true. mccarthy and other republicans have made the calculation that it is worth it, politically advantageous to stay aligned with trump. mccarthy briefly broke with him after january 6th only to come racing back to his side. it means rebuing liz cheney. so be it. there's forces here in the republican party -- we are past the 100 day mark of the biden administration. they are looking towards 2022. they believe the best way to try

to win back the majority is to stay with trump, who remains popular among republicans. i think there are questions about the long-term wisdom of the strategy in a nation with shifting demographics that's in swing states like georgia, north carolina and others. but in the short-term, maybe it does pay off. trump has by far the loudest voice in the party. we know parties that have the presidency usually tend to suffer losses in the midterms. with the margins so small, that bodes well for republicans. right now, you are seeing this split. the side that liz cheney and mitt romney are on, smaller than the others still staying with donald trump. >> for kevinccarthy, now is the time. liz cheney can play a longer game and is playing a longer game. former congressman -- excuse me. we will get to you after this. we have to listen to president biden. let's watch.

>> just like the lovely lady in blue over here is a professor at a community college, my wife also works for your husband. thank you for the warm welcome at the airport. appreciate it very, very much. tim kaine, one of the great senators and a great, great friend and a guy i have relied on most of my career when i was in the senate, we worked together. as vice president and now. bobby scott, thank you for everything you do. [ applause ] we got to meet when you were in uniform, if i'm not mistaken. you are doing a great job. thank you for being here. all the faculty and management and folks here at the community

college. one of the things that i really found interesting is that the major, cybersecurity, we spent a lot of times as my colleagues can tell you worrying and dealing with cybersecurity. it's really important that we get this under control. we have the best trained people in the world. you are going to be among them. i'm here today to talk about america's family plan. i announced it last week. a once in a generation investment in our families, our children, that addresses what people care most about and most need. the investment we need to win the competition, the competition with other nations in the future. we're in a race. we're in a race. it starts with access to good education, as you all know.

when america made 12 years of public education universal in america in the early 1900s, it made us the best educated nation in the world. you saw the benefits that came from that. the rest of the world caught up to us. the rest of the world caught up to us. they are not waiting. 12 years is no longer enough to compete with the world in the 21st century and lead the 21st century. that's why my american families plan guarantees four additional years of public education for every person in america starting as early as we can. we were at an elementary school earlier today. what we are talking about is universal high quality preschool for 3 and 4-year-olds. not day care, preschool. [ applause ] research has shown here at the great universities in this state and others that children of that age who go to school, they are far more likely to graduate from high school and continue their

education beyond that. rather than start off behind the eight ball if they come from families that are not -- don't have education, college education. a lot of kids start kindergarten hearing a million fewer words having spoken than other families. it's an unfair disadvantage. every child is capable. every child is capable of learning. we visited a fifth grade classroom in yorktown earlier today where the students are back together with their classmates and teachers in school. we saw what being in school means for those kids. safely reopened a majority of the k through eight schools was one of my top priorities in my first 100 days. because there's so much that happens when they don't have the companionship and the familiarity of being with their friends. there's a lot of need in this pandemic for mental health

facilities and counseling. we met that goal by working with the governor here to get educators and school staff vaccinated and to get them the resources they needed to open up safely. i often said that children are the kite strings that keep us aloft. they are all our children. they are the kite strings that literally lift our national ambitions aloft. we have to invest in them. invest in our children to invest in the future. we can't stop there. we will add two years of community college on top of that. you just heard jill talk about community college and how it can change lives. students here at the community college, across the country know why. for some it's two years to earn enough credits to transfer to a four-year university to become a teacher, a entrepreneur or anything else. for some it's getting extra training through certificate

programs to get a good paying job in a business in town. we just met with students at the hvac workshop. ambitious, talented students who are up to taking the next step in their lives. with the skills they are learning here and some of the students will go on to be plumbers and electricians. the first lady of this state understands that an awful lot of folks who even get an opportunity to go to community college still can't get there because of food, transportation, those other costs. we are going to increase pell grants -- [ applause ] it will make a gigantic difference. by the way, i have to admit, if i didn't have these positions, i

would be sleeping in the lincoln bedroom rather than the president's bedroom. it is how to start to transform the life and family and community and our economy by investing. investing in people. every child has a capacity to learn. if i heard from jill, i heard it a thousand times, any country that outeducates us will out compete us. the american family plan will provide access to quality, affordable childcare. keeping parents -- helping parents go back to work, providing a life line of benefits for children as they do better in school and throughout their lives. families pay no more than 7% of their income for high quality care for children up to the age of 5.

that makes a gigantic difference. millions of women are out of work today because they can't take care of their children and do their job. the cost of childcare is extraordinary. i was a single father when first got elected in the senate. i had two young boys raised after their mom and sister were killed. i had the family i had, i never would have been able do it. i was a senator. i was making a decent salary. the most hard pressed working families won't have to spend a dime if my plan works, if you are a low income folk, you will get childcare for free. the american families plan is going to provide up to 12 weeks of paid and medical leave -- paid family medical leave. we are one of the few industrialized countries that doesn't have this feature. no one should choose between a job and a paycheck or taking care of themselves, their parent, their spouse or a child that's ill.

they should have that opportunity. the fourth piece of the plan, the american families plan puts money directly in the pockets of millions of americans. in march, we extended the tax credit for low and middle income families with children. hold a second. if you make enough money and you are paying taxes, you end up in a situation where you get to deduct $2,000 per child as a tax benefit. you don't get it back but you get to deduct it. if you are minimum wage, you are not paying much tax. if you are making less than that, which many people are, you are not paying federal tax. you get no benefit. we put in place -- a number of my republican colleagues share the view, too, none voting for it, but they share it as well, and that is up to $3,000 per child 6 years and older and $3,600 for a child that is under 6 years of age.

that means two parents and two young kids, they get a heck back for $7,200 in their pocket, which they are doing now, which can help them take care of your family and will benefit more than 65 million children. it will cut child poverty in half this year. cut it in half. my plan extends a tax credit at least through the year 2025. what's going to happen in 2025, as the press knows, is the tax cuts of the last president expire. we will go back that put us $2 trillion in debt. we will compete what tax credits there are. i think it's time to give tax breaks and credits to working class families and middle class families instead of just the very wealthy. here is what the american families plan doesn't do. it doesn't add a single penny to our deficit. it's paid for by making sure

corporate america and the wealthiest 1% just pay their fair share. i come from the corporate capital of the world. more corporations are in delaware than all the rest of the nation combined. i'm not anti-corporate. it's about time they start paying their fair share. it's about making a choice. we have out there this year -- you have 50 corporations making $40 billion that didn't pay a single penny in taxes. not a single penny. i don't want to punish anybody, but everybody should chip in. everybody should pay something along the road here. the choice is about who the economy serves. i plan on giving tax breaks to the working class folks and making everybody pay their fair share. here is an example. if you ask the top 1% to pay the same tax rate they paid in 2001 en george bush was president, that would generate $13 billion

a year. that's enough for us to take around 11 of that $13 billion and provide for two years of community college free for every student in america. what's fair? go from 36 to 39.6% like it used to be and be able to take care of -- was better -- just think about it in terms of what's better for america, not democrat, republican, individual. what's going to grow america more? what's going to grow america more? what's going to make us more competitive, stronger? what's going to make us better educated? for folks at home, i like to ask a question. do we want to give the wealthiest people in america another tax cut? or do you want to give every high school graduate the ability to earn a community college degree on their way to good paying jobs or on their way to four years of school? health care, i.t., cybersecurity, you name it.

another example, for too long we have have had a two-tiered tax system. working families pay taxes they owe on the wages they earn. some of the wealthiest americans avoid paying anything close to that fair share. my plan revitalizes the capacity of the irs to crack down on -- there's studies from the former secretary of treasury on that millionaires and billionaires are able to avoid taxes and cheat in avoiding those taxes because we have so few agents in the irs. the consensus is if you increase the disclosure requirements for banks and financial institutions on accounts of the wealthiest americans to reduce tax cheating, you will have two steps to recover $70 billion per year that goes unreported and unpaid. we have been hearing about this for the last ten years. instead of cutting the number,

we should be increasing the number of agents. not hounding anyone. just being able to get access to information. shut down all the tax savings from the islands -- anyway, i won't go into it. i get carried away with this. we can take this money, this money and pay for universal pre-k for every 3 and 4-year-old in america. what is better? paid family working families, 7% of their income, it's a choice. it's more important to shield millionaires from paying their fair share or is it more important that every child gets a real opportunity to succeed from an early age? ease the burden on working families. we have a loophole in our tax system called stepped up basis. it's also known as a trust fund loophole. for example, if i had a million dollars in stock that i bought

and it made a million dollars and i was going to cash it in, i would have to pay capital gain mlion dollars. if i go back to where i was o the way to where we are talking about, on the way to cash in my stock, i got hit by a car and got killed, i could leave it to my daughter and she pays no tax. a tax that was owed two seconds earlier. it's not an inheritance tax. it was owed two seconds earlier. that's what stepped up basis. a person passes away and leaves the stock to a son or daughter. son or daughter don't pay anything on that multimillion dollar gain. they sell that stock. that's worth a lot of money. look, they may be decent and honest people, but we need to eliminate the loophole -- only

the gains above people making $2 million a year -- excuse me, a couple. rate of capital gains for people making more than a million dollars a year, which would affect three-tenths of 1% of the top. close another loophole like the real estate investment loophole. wealthiest paying the same rate on investment income that raises $40 billion a year for the next ten years. the reason i'm bothering do this is i hear, biden will raise your taxes. anybody making less than $400,000 a year will not pay a single penny in taxes. we will not increase the deficit either. unlike the last gigantic tax cut which increased the deficit by $2 trillion. it's about balancing the system and growing the economy. wealthy investors no longer pay lower marginal tax rates than their secretary pays.

the secretary in their office. do you want to know what that would do? that would take that money and extend the life changing middle class tax cut and put in place to expand childcare tax credit to, that $1,700 in the pockets of families with two kids, for now through 2025. just closing these loopholes by taxing investment income at the same rate as wages for the wealthiest americans would have enough to extend this through 2025. i ask again, is it more important to keep these tax loopholes for millionaires, for good people, not bad folks, but or would we rather put $7,200 in the pockets of working moms and dads every year if they have two children? folks, trickle down economics has never worked. we have had an economy that gives every break in the world to the folks who need it the least.

it's time to grow the economy from the bottom up and the middle out. we can choose to give hard working families a break, a tax break. we can choose to invest in our students. we can choose an economy that rewards work, not just wealth. that chooses -- the choice i'm making and the value the american people support is let's give people a shot. give it half a chance. the american people have never, ever, let their country down. imagine if we gave them a full chance. imagine what it would mean for them and their families and for our country. we are the united states of america. there's nothing, nothing we have been unable to do when we do it together. let's get together. let's get this done. the truth of the matter is, that we can do this and grow the economy. i won't go into the other statistics. it's made to grow the economy another trillion dollars. this will grow the economy. everybody will be better off.

i want to thank you all for doing your part here to make sure that not only you are educating and giving people a shot, not limited because they don't have the money. we will give it to a lot more people. i promise you, i promise you. america will be much stronger for it. like i said, we are setting out a universal education. it wouldn't just be 12 years anymore. it would be those 16 years i'm talking about. two to start at two at the other end. as your state has done under your governor and your senator and your congress persons, your state, if you get four years out of -- two years out of here, it's two years towards a state university. you cut tuition in half for a four-year degree. there's an awful lot of possibilities, hope. the good news is, i think

there's overwhelming bipartisan support for this. look at the polling data. republican voters overwhelmingly support it. i just got get some of my republican colleagues to support it. thank you all. god bless you for the work you are doing. may god protect our troops. thank you so much. [ applause ] [ inaudible. >> by the end of the summer, we will be in a different position. i worked very hard to make sure we have over 600 million doses of vaccine. we will continue to make sure that is available. we can help other nations once we take care of all americans. what's happening now is all the talk about how people were not going to get shots, not going to be involved. look at -- we were told that was

likely to be among people over 65. now people over 65 years of age, over 80% have now been vaccinated. 66% fully vaccinated. there's virtually no difference between white, black, hispanic, asian-american. because what we have done under some criticism is we have expanded access to vaccinations to familiar places. 40,000 drugstores now. also all of the community health centers that are available all across the nation. mobile units going out. it's getting better and better and better. that's why we are leading the world. when i got elected, i said the first 100 days we would get 100 million people vaccinations. i was wrong. we got 230 million. i think you will see -- there's a debate you know. i will end with this. there's a debate what

constitutes herd immunity. the point is that by the end of the summer -- right now, every single person 16 years or older doesn't have to wait in line, can show up and get a vaccination now. my plea to everyone, get vaccinated now, please. thank you. [ applause ] >> president biden there, stopping to take a question about vaccinations. otherwise, there to sell his infrastructure and education plans saying that these plans, while they will spend a lot of money, will ultimately grow the economy, saying that trickle down economics has never worked. jon, let's put a button on what we heard there from president biden in terms of how these plans are going to move forward. he called them his republican

colleagues. they are not his colleagues anymore longer but habits are hard to break. he is of course the president of the united states. he is saying, republican voters want the policies, even if i can't convince republicans in congress to go along with me. >> yeah. president biden is certainly quick to wax nostalgic about his time in the senate. he is aiming over the heads in many ways of the republican lawmakers. he did so as well in his speech to congress last wednesday where to this point, certainly the covid relief bill and now the infrastructure jobs package seems to poll well with republican voters even though gop lawmakers seem not inclined to support it. the president as his team are putting the gop in a box. if you are not going to back it, you are favoring big corporations having lower taxes, which is not a political popular position. what you see here is continuing this tour where he is highlighting parts of the job

infrastructure program and some of the more family focused or health care focused quality of life focus, in this case, education. saying this is something that not only improve quality of life for americans but is good for the economy. so important to really not just now coming out of the pandemic to stabilize things but to change strur struck structurall. it's a big thought. it's a big picture. the tour will continue later this week in louisiana. this is where the president is right now. they believe though the size of the package is significant, they believe it's popular. they believe they can get it done. they are trying to push republicans. >> speaking of republicans, i do want to finish up our conversation we started before we heard from president biden with you, congressman. it is becoming a litmus test, support or not, for former

president trump, there was a quote from an organizer in michigan in "the washington post" over the weekend. ashley parker writing, this republican governor says, i think i speak for many people is that trump has never been wrong. we learned to trust when he says something, he is not going to spew something out there that's wrong and not verified. this is extremely dangerous. there are not hardly any republicans who are willing to stand up and say that none of this stuff is true. liz cheney is an exception. you have been behind the scenes. you understand the difference between being in the majority and being in the minority. is that what's going on here? how do you understand the conflict in your party and the house right now? >> i can tell you there are a lot of rank and file republicans who worry that there is going to be another flare-up having to do with liz cheney. there's talk that there's going to be another vote to have her remove and that this time the leadership, kevin mccarthy,

steve scalise, might support that or let it happen, so to speak. a lot of the members think that that would be difficult for the party. by the way, it would also be a difficult decision for kevin mccarthy. liz cheney does have a strong group of supporters in the house republican conference. people who really value her leadership, who maybe not out loud but quietly encourage her to continue speaking the truth, to pushing back against the former president. if mccarthy is perceived to be behind any effort to remove liz cheney or to hurt her, that could cost him votes in 2023 if he does have the opportunity to become speaker of the house, which a lot of prognosticators think republicans have a decent chance of taking over the house given how tight the margin is

and given what typically happens in midterm elections. this is a difficult situation for kevin mccarthy. i think there's no end in sight. >> it may have taken them almost 12 years, but it seems like the tea party faction has won out there certainly with kevin mccarthy. leigh ann, jonathan, carlos, thank you very much for that discussion. we want to turn to the other story that we are covering this hour, the funeral of andrew brown, junior. reverend al sharpton is delivering the eulogy. let's listen. >> andrew brown, junior, if he did wrong, bring him to court. but you don't have the right to bring him to his funeral. and these young people that have marched in the streets, white

and black, are standing up doing what you should do, and that is seeking justice and fairness. you don't have to qualify to be created just. later on in that same chapter, jesus looked at his disciples and he said, who do they say i am? they told him what the people said. he looked at them that had went with him, he said, would do you say i am? i come to elizabeth city today to ask each one of you, who are you? are you on the side of justice, or are you on the side of those that play the shell game? are you on the side that stands up for the andrew browns, or are you on the side of those that say, well, this is going to keep

happening? who do you say you are to yourself? i don't know who you are. but i know who i am. that's why i got up in new york early this morning, because nobody was coming to elizabeth city to stand up with khalil and jarard, i had to come because of who i am. i am a minister called by god to talk about the signs of the times. if i stand up with god, he will hold me up on every leaning side. no weapon, no police department, no state trooper, no weapon shall prosper. there is a god that stands high. but he looks down low. the god i serve stands up for the rejected, stands up for the

abused. i know y'all rather have some victim that fits your model. but jesus came for those that nobody else would come for. jesus met the woman at the well that nobody wanted to be bothered with. jesus met the man that was a begging blind man that didn't have affordable health care. he opened up his eyes. jesus met the hungry with a few loaves of bread and two fishes. jesus met those that were outcast and were rejected. i come in jesus name to stand up for a black man that might have had a record, but he had a right to live his life. in jesus name i will stand up for andrew brown, for george floyd and for all that god gave life to. ♪♪

88 years ago today, man was born that came to be known as the godfather of soul, james brown. today is his 88th birthday. i met him when i was 18. my father left when i was 10. james brown became like a father to me. best way i could celebrate his birthday is to stand with these two young brothers and these five children. james brown raised me saying it's better you stand on your feet than live on your knees. today in elizabeth city, we are going to get up off our knees. we are not going to let you play the shell game. you are going to release that

tape. you are going to let the world know what you did to this brother. we are going to know who was involved and what police were involved. we don't know the difference between the county and the city. y'all get in the room and decide who is going to handle this and you are going to handle this. the shell game is over. we are going to washington and get the federal government to look in and stop the shell game. it's time for you to stop playing with the lives of our people. the justice department need to come in and stop the shell game. we going to stand up. we going to rise up. we going to hold up. if god before us, if god before us, if god before us is more than the whole world against us. thank you and god bless you. ♪♪

>> that was the reverend al sharpton delivering the eulogy for andrew brown, junior. i want to bring in priscilla thompson who is live in elizabeth city and i'm joined by derek johnson, who is calling for the release of the video. when the judge denied the release, he put out a statement saying in part, there's no accountability without transparency. what have you been hearing from friends and family of andrew brown as they gather to mourn his loss? >> reporter: i think it's a similar message we have heard as the protests have been going on. the same message that we heard from reverend sharpton. a demand for justice, a demand for greater transparency.

the reverend made it a point at the beginning to say, people need not mistake this celebration of his life and hearing family members and andrew brown, junior's sons talking about who he was, don't mistake the celebration of his life as though it is not still a call for justice. that is certainly what we heard from the reverend al. you heard him talking about this as a con game basically is what he is saying in regards to the reluctance to release this video footage, saying if there's nothing on the footage, why is there a want to delay this? of course, we heard from a judge last week saying that he does want to wait to release the video publically until the investigation has concluded, at least 30 days before that happens. before the reverend spoke, benjamin crump, the attorney, was up there. he was saying a similar message to folks, is that today is a day of grieving for the family, it's a day of remembering for the family.

but as they go forward having had this experience, they must continue to demand justice, to demand transparency, to honor the life and the legacy of andrew brown, junior. i had an opportunity to speak to one man as he was going inside of the services. he is a retired police officer here. he shared with me he didn't know andrew brown, junior, but when he saw all of this unfolding, he began to get involved with organizing marchers to hold the demonstrations we have seen over the past 12 days. he said that he doesn't want this family to feel alone. after today, when the media coverage goes away, he wants to keep this in the spotlight, to keep pressuring those officials to release that tape. we also, of course, heard reverend sharpton go bigger picture on this, talking about the need for congress, the need for the senate to act on that george floyd policing act to ensure that this doesn't happen

again. back in the '50s and '60s, we saw protest around black people forced to ride in the back of the bus. now is the time where we are dealing with criminal justice and policing reform. now is the time to make a mark on that. >> thank you very much for that. derek johnson, i want to ask you about what's going on in congress and police reform more broadly. let's start with the man that's being buried today. you have said the body camera footage needs to be released in this incident. can you walk us through, what happens in north carolina to try to get this released? what tools do you have at your disposal to try and make sure that the public and the family, frankly, can see what happened here? >> transparency is the road to justice. you cannot have justice or a

system we call a justice system without transparency. we are taking the same road the press is taking, the family is seeking, attorneys for the family is to require the agency to release the tapes through court filings. unfortunately, we have to wait. the judge made one decision. there may be appeals in this case. at the end of the day, if this community is to heal, if there are any efforts to really establish a different relationship between law enforcement and this community, you must have transparency. if there was some behaviors that was not consistent with providing true justice, those involved must be held accountable. we have to have a justice system that applies to the african-american community. we are seeing it too often, it's not being applied fairly and equally. >> let's talk about how this applies across the board in our

country and the efforts to try and right some of the wrongs that you are outlining here. there are real negotiations going on over a police reform bill between democrats and republicans. senator tim scott is leading those negotiations on the republican side. my question for you is, do you have confidence that democrats in the house in particular are going to hold the line in a way that you and others who have worked on this issue for so long believe that they need to? how far do you think they should be willing to compromise before they say, it's not enough? >> i'm comfortable with the talks so far. they are still at the table. senator tim scott is being open with this conversation. senator cory booker has been very strong. you have other members in the house, congresswoman karen bass has done an outstanding job. reverend sharpton and i talked over the weekend about the necessity of getting this act across the finish line. we have to address qualified

immunity. there must be a publically facing database of policemen's conduct. we have to address the standard of review to hold police officers criminally liable whether they cross the line. those are the key components. there are other components. we must enhance the ability of social workers to work in communities of trauma. we must provide more resources for mental health professionals. we also need to look at, what type of support are we providing communities to have a healthy relationship with police departments and other opportunities that some of us grew up with so that there is a type of relationship between community and law enforcement officers and agencies that is a trusted relationship that's based in giving the benefit of the doubt, allowing people to go through a system that is truly just and preventing these type of funeral services that we are now seeing all too often.

>> on the qualified immunity question, this has emerged as a central point of conflict. what is your red line on qualified immunity? some republicans suggested perhaps the police departments could be held accountable and not the individual. would you be willing to support any package that included a compromise on this issue? do you believe that it must absolutely be individual police officers who are held liable? >> we are taking a position that the outcome of the negotiation should be one in which we change the culture of policing in the african-american and latinx communities so people have a different level of trust and security around what is safe in terms of engagement. how we land there, we want the ability of senator booker, congresswoman bass, to really hold fast for that outcome. how we get there -- i want to

look to them to be -- to be as creative as possible to ensure police officers cannot use their badge to shield them from accountability. qualified immunity must be addressed. how that shapes, we want to see what >> i'm hearing some optimism here in your remarks about the possibility for a compromise and some actual action on this. derrick johnson, thank you, as always, for sharing your time with us and offering your views. we really appreciate it. don't go anywhere. we will be right back here on "mtp daily." back here on "mtp daily." was knocking me out of my zone, but lowering my a1c with once-weekly ozempic® helped me get back in it. ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic® ♪ my zone?

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ukraine and whether he acted as an unregistered foreign agent, we have an important update to our reporting surrounding giuliani and the fbi concerns that he was a target of a russian influence campaign. joining me now is nbc national security news correspondent ken delanian. ken, let's start with what we reported here on friday and correct the record about this fbi briefing. >> glad to do it, kasie, glad to be with you. on friday nbc news and other news organizations reported that the fbi warned giuliani that he was the target of a russian campaign. over the weekend, a second source familiar with the matter told us that while that briefing was prepared and contemplated, it was not actually delivered, in part because of concerns it would complicate the then-pending investigation into rudy giuliani. so we've corrected our latest understanding, and i have to tell you, kasie, nobody hates it

more than we do when we get it wrong or a source is wrong, and we try to come back to our viewers and give them the best information, and that's what we're doing now. >> expand a little bit on the interaction of this briefing and the criminal investigation that was going on. what would the goal be of preparing such a briefing like this, and what is our understanding of how the decision not to give it to him was made? >> it's a great question. as we know, several defensive briefings were given to tuesday use officials and perhaps others. senator ron johnson has acknowledged he got such a briefing. this is the fbi's counterintelligence division, because they saw americans were being targeted as part of this russian influence operation designed to discredit joe biden and help donald trump win the 2020 election. but in the case of rudy giuliani, you had two groups in the fbi concerned with him. one was the counterintelligence division that hunts for spies and looks for russian influence. another was a separate criminal investigation, and there were concerns that, you know, any

time someone is targeted by the fbi in a criminal investigation, it's very delicate how fbi agents approach that person, particularly when they're already represented by a lawyer. i don't know the full extent of the deliberations, but we were told that there was a potentially complicating factor and ultimately they decided not to go forward with that briefing. now, we should say that there was plenty of information in the public record that should have warned rudy giuliani that he was dealing with people that were tied to russia and the kremlin and russian intelligence, and later there was a public statement by the trump treasury department that one of the people giuliani was dealing with was, in fact, a russian agent, kasie. >> all right, ken delanian, thanks very much. appreciate it. that will do it for us. don't go away.

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good afternoon. i'm katy tur. as we come on the air, we are getting a stark new look at what the end game of covid might be like. here is where we stand right now. about 105 million americans have been fully vaccinated. 56% of all adults have gotten at least one dose, and about 83% of people over 65 have gotten at least one dose.