steps today to percentage his leadership team from liz cheney, for her refusal to go along with the big lie. as the republican party's platform. pun siring her wasn't even the worst thing he did today. watch. >> there's no concern about how she vote odd impeachment. that decision has been made. i have heard from members concerned about her ability to carry out the job as conference chair, to carry out the mechanic. >> so either kevin mccarthy just slipped up and revealed house republicans plan to run on the insurrection and the big lie behind it, or kevin mccarthy is lying about the need to oust cheney, because there's no way cheney's clarity about the big lie gets in her way to carry out

the message if they plan on run on about anything else? evidence that none of this is about her ability to do the job surfaced just after that interview. axios was first to report that mccarthy cause caught on a hot mic trashing liz cheney. a tape reviewed shows i think she has real prove, he told steve doocen. quote, i've had it with her, i've had it with her. i've lost confidence. someone just has to bring a motion, but i assume that will probably take place. cheney's communication director made it clear, saying this, quote -- this is about whether the republican party is going to perpetuate lies about the 2020 election in an attempt to whitewash what happened on january 6th. liz will not do that. that is the issue.

now, this is a watershed moment for the gop, making it official today the party is no longer some run of the mill opposition party committed to object instructing president biden's agenda. that is the old gop. what the gop is making official with today's attempted purge from friendie, the gop making clear it not protect american democracy, nor tolerate any members in its ranks who do. the gop making it clear it will not work to fight the domestic violent extremism threat inspired by the big lie, nor will it tolerate any members in its ranks it will do. it made clear today it will not stop lying, even though the majority of the party's leaders are on the record declaring there was no fraud, the gop making clear today it will stand on loyalty to the disgraced

ex-president after he lost the white house and cost them control of the senate. because this defining falsehood is so obviously laughably false, we can safely assume most republican leaders who embrace it fall into the second category. knowingly repeating a lie, an act of immorality is now the evidence of republican fidelity. the gop is an anti-democratic force purging liz cheney for refusing to go along with the norms. tim miller is here, former rnc spokesman. was a.b. stoddard, columnist for real clear politics, and jake sherman, who has broken a lot of

news on this story. jake, this is what kevin mcwater planned to do today? >> i don't know if this is what he planned to do today. i know he's traveling for political business at the moment. this was going to come either way. nicolle, as you said, the republican leadership does not like the fact that liz cheney keeps discussing donald trump and keeps discussing his lies about the january 6th attack and his lies about the election. they think she's too focused on that. i had one republican saying she talks about january 6th and donald trump more than the democrats. so, you know, republicans -- i do think it's true that republicans are complaining about her to mccarthy, but you're right, this is all about january 6th. it's all about donald trump, her refusing to accept the lies that trump has towed about january

6th. let's be 100% clear here. i do expect in the next week, based on my reporting today over the last 12 hours, there will be an election next week, probably, or the week after to strip her of her leadership post. the new york republican who is very close to trump, is already gathering support, we have reported, to run if checkie loses. so, you know, this is a big makeover of the republican leadership. frankly it's a makeover in the image of donald trump more than anything, because liz cheney was the last person in the leadership who had any space with donald trump. elede stephanic is close to donald trump, along with mark meadows when he was in congress. >> tim miller, it would be funny if it weren't so bleep bleep tragic. it would be funny, as he loses

his grip based on john bolton's polling, they oust liz cheney for speaking the truth about the lie that undergirls the extremi threat in the understanding of america. >> look, nicolle, there's this think there was an inertia that got us to hear, because it had to happen because the rep base wanted this, but it isn't. it's about choices all these men made, mostly, in order to successful to donald trump. the choice they're going to make next week, according to jake's reporting, is that the only member of congress that is going to suffer any consequences from the siege on the capitol that was inspired by republican lies is the one woman who is willing to speak the truth about it. okay? so on january 6th, you had lindsey graham saying it's time to move forward. mitch mcconnell say it was an

attack on our democracy. all these guys could have gotten together and said we're going to make a change, and we're going to move forward, and liz cheney could be in good standing. when i listen to jake and the member that he was talking about, this is a common point that, you know, the middle of the road republicans is saying liz cheney is doing it to herself. nobody talks about donald trump more than the republicans. it's not the democrats who are still talking about donald trump. the nrsc gave him an award. rick scott flew down to mar-a-lago to hand him the freedom award. the two sides are liz cheney who wants to tell the truth, and the other side who wants to keep

telling the lies and keep standing by donald trump. those are two sides. there's a class that are trying to ally that fact and turn liz into something that it isn't. >> so, a.b., kevin mccarthy knows what he's purging is the truth teller, and that he's siding with the lies. i don't know if he thinking that the things he whispers to reporters aren't sometimes caught on tape, but here's kevin mccarthy, according to kept mccarthy. >> the president bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress by mob rioters. he should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding. these facts require immediate action by president trump. accept the share of responsibility, quell the brewing unrest, and ensure president-elect biden is able to successfully begin hi term.

>> reporter: do you believe that former president trump provoked? >> i don't believe he provoked, if you listened to what he said at the rally. >> what i said, i thought the president had some responsibility when it came to the response. if you listen to what the president said at the rally, demonstrate peacefully, and then i got a question later about whether did he incite them? i also think everybody across this country has some responsibility. >> i was the first person to contact him when the riots was going on, he didn't see it. he ended the call saying he'll put something out to make sure to stop it. that's what he did. he put a video out later. >> so, a.b. stoddard s. mccarthy got rid of -- i think they were the yellows and oranges that donald trump didn't like. >> just the pink and red. >> just the pinks and reds, which let's face it are the flavors we all like the most.

curve mcdaert -- >> i'm a yellow starburst person myself. >> there you go. you could share a pack of tarburst with donald trump if not else, a.b. kevin mccarthy has never taken the move -- that is not having the confidence or the intellectual integrity to have a dissenter on his team. he knows she's telling the truth. so instead of letting her hanging around, defending her, maybe solving the party's political problem, he is creating a problem by purging her, and this purge of someone who speaks the truth, it's medieval. >> well, kevin mccarthy is responding to two pressures,

both from the gosars, and biggs and taylor greenes in his ranks, and then from the world of donald trump. he was at mar-a-lago by the end of january. then he went into this torturous pretzel wrap, saying all the things that you played in the later clips, trying to come up with a way to finness this, as he was asking donald trump for support in the 2022 mid terms, please don't pick other candidates, let's protect incumbents, let's win so i can be speaker. jake is right. the republicans describe this -- even though who voted for her and would again, they say she just needs to stop rubbing it in. she's ahead opportunities to be provocative about donald trump, and, of course, to tell the

truth about the election. so what kevin's language is now, look, she can no longer represent us. her messaging is wrong, because that's what we're getting behind. so the transition, the evolution of kevin mechanic kathy from early february to early may is i have to go all in, i can't take the texts from don junior anymore, i can't take the texts from jason miller. i have to go all in and the people in my ranks are telling me we've got to get rid of her. this is happening on a parallel track with purges around the country of anybody who said the same thing, this was the most fair and secure high turnout, most successful election in our history and it wasn't stolen. those republican officials are also being purged. this is a trend, right? you purge all the people donald trump doesn't like, because they refused to go along

with a big like, they use the big lie to further derange voters about the fact we need these new, quote, voting rights legislation and restrictions in all the these different states. so it's really working perfectly for them if you see it. they're raising a lot of money, people are buying into it. liz cheney's she doth stand on principle too much posture these days, where she will take the opportunity at a mic, anytime a reporter asks her a question, she'll take the opportunity as to discuss it, and that's why she's going to go down. she knows it's unlikely she wins her seat back. she's willing to go down for her integrity. it's incredibly rare, and that's a tragedy. i think we have to be careful not to make this about liz cheney's integrity. this is about the truth in the united states of america on a terrorist attack on the capitol. i don't think this has to do

with any one woman's integrity. i think there's some latent sexism, liz can't help herself. jake, the podcast was almost an hour long. she didn't raise donald trump. you did at the end. is she walking around popping off about donald trump on capitol hill? >> well, in the podcast i simply asked her about her primary, whether she thought she would survive. she said, you know, she basically suggested, without me bringing up trump, if there were a debate about her vote to impeach the president, she would be happy to have that every day. so she brought it up in that instance. no, she's not really going around bringing it up. she occasionally does. she does in that episode, that broadcast. she brought the isn't up, i did not, but a couple things that said this in motion are as

follows. number one, mccarthy's appearance on fox news sunday, which then sparked questions to cheney. cheney was asked at the orlando retreat, where this all happened, she was asked if the president should be prosecuted, and she said that's up to the justice department. that's a statement of fact, right? that's not really objectionable, though some people found it objectionable. then she got on the wrong side of mccarthy when she brought up she disagreed with mccarthy about the january 6th mission. mccarthy and mcconnell together have been arguing though commission should investigate all political violence, not only the january 6th attack. cheney's point, quite vigorously, cheney made the suggestion that it should only focus on january 6th, which is a big enough instance to warrant its own mission. not a terribly controversial statement, but one that was on the opposite side of where

kevin, scalise and mcconnell were. so that's the chain of events that have happened. by the way, leaving aside the morality of it for a second, i mean, thennie does have a difference of opinion other than every republican. every other republican is fine to keep shoaling trump and other people from blame. >> but jake, sherman, it's not an opinion. >> that's my point. >> it's not an opinion, it's a fact. >> we're in agreement. she can't -- internally for herself, i don't know how she can even go on. i don't know how she can continue representing a conference that is kind of, you know, walking around with hands over its ears and blindfolds over its eyes about events we all lived through. a lot of people who are in cheney's corner wonder why she even wants to go on. i think that's a fair question to ask cheney, frankly.

she says she wants to stay in the leadership, but there's a legitimate question that it doesn't make sense for her to continue to try to represent a conference that's just on those two topics -- january 6th and the election -- she's dealing in reality while other people are dealing in an alternate or nonexistent reality. >> tim, i need you to jump in on two of these questions. i think jake sherman raised the $64 million question. why doesn't mccarthy want his role investigated? so i think, again, liz cheney is living in reality, and the story here isn't about her integrity or adherence to the fact. it's about the decline of one of

the two governing parties. >> yeah, for sure. look, it's not as if there aren't other disagreements within the leadership. right? the caucus was half and half. half of them were basically on the team insurrection and voted to overturn an illegal election and the other half of the caucus didn't. there's that division. people like paul gosar and amy biggs that are pro-insurrection. they're out there talking about how great maga is. paul gosar talked to a nationalist conference. peopler not talking about him losing his assignments. she's being picked on because she's hold ago mirror up to their face about their actions.

the notion that she's rubbing it in their faces unnecessarily is nonsense. the entire conference talks about trump all the time. they have their fund-raisers at mar-a-lago. this whole notion that liz cheney is the one keeping trump in the discussion is cede. crazy. >> nicolle -- >> go ahead, jake. >> i want to make one point here. kevin's role here is quite often. if you look at mcconnell and mccarthy and how they're handling this vis-a-vis trump, mcconnell is like i'm done talking about trump, i want nothing to do with him, i'm sick of it. if he primaries my members, i'll just deal with it. if you read between the lines, that's his view, and he'll take all the consequences that come with it. mccarthy what is made the kaling includes that he wants to not

have trump primary his guys and women, for that matter, so he's trying to play both sides of the fence. he's trying to stay on trump's good side, while at the same time on the other end, he feels uncomfortable when at frankly the reality is you can't have this both ways. if you think it's important for you to go on his good side so he doesn't have to primary your members, you have to take the bad, too. mcconnell set, forget it, i'm done with this guy. when he's asked a question about trump, he says, you know what? i'm looking at biden's agenda, i don't like it, it's time to move on, we're focused on the future. and he doesn't get questions about it. so that's kind of it. >> i didn't mean to jump, a.b. stoddard, on your comment about liz thennie having integrity.

i just think there's danger about covering this story that way. mitt romney put out this statement today. liz chen aye refuses to lie. as one of my colleagues said to me following my impeachment vote, i wouldn't want to be a member of a group for following someone's conscience. >> her integrity is of a piece of your description of what's happened to the republican party. the only person she can lead in the conference is adam kinzinger. there is no one -- she's trying to lead a conference that is talking to me and jake and saying, even people who supported her on the first vote and would support her next week, saying she shouldn't have tweeted an hour later. she jumps, she talked to robert draper in a piece for "new york

times" that literally said that liz cheney did not speaking on the record. she's out of -- to give. she continues to emphasize what she thinks is right and what she hopes to lead the republican party to. they will not follow her. this is a conference that has decided they need to go along with the big lie, and only adam kinzinger is sticking up for her. that's why, as jake points out, why does she even want this jobs? the fact that someone stands up for principles is exception and is tragic, is the description of the republican party. this is the description that republicans are giving us. she just has to stop talking about it. she's try to go lead a conference that's telling her you can't talk about the truth. i think we're all agrees on the different points and they all connect, but her integrity

stands out, because even if she answers questions in orlando at a republican conference, she gets people thinking she's being provocative. >> because she refuses to lie. >> right. ay-yi-yi. tim miller is sticking around. thank you all. the disinformation campaign kicked into overdrive after president obama weighed in on the safety of vaccines. why he's still such a trigger. the man in the center of the storm about the pandemic and it's unprecedented political undertones will join us. dr. fauci will be here for the very first time. could the billion dollar lawsuits be where the rubber meets the road for the big lie? all of those stories and mosh when "deadline: white house" continues after a break. don't go anywhere. continues after a break. don't go anywhere. you run it by an expert, you talk about the risk

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i want to be clear, getting vaccinated also protects you and reduces the risk you give it to someone else. this is not a democrat or republican issue. science behind the vaccines has been under development for decades. two of our vaccines railroad authorized under prior administrations, republican administrations. >> president biden today reaches out to the other side, trying to convince the perhaps political driven vaccine hesitant folks.

"new york times" is reporting the fda approve for children 12 to 16 will likely happen next week. tucker carlson said this in a rant -- we won't play it, so you have an idea of what president biden is up against. if the authorities are permitted to control a healthcare decision this intimate, if they can force you and your children to takes a vaccine you don't want, and are afraid of, then what can't they do? nothing. they will have total power over your body and your mind forever. what's the limit to their power? there isn't one.

it's hard to know where to begin with the lunacy, all of it about the perceived sin of creating a vaccine and making it available for 12 to 15-year-olds, and their parents who have access to life-saving vaccines. as if on cue, dr. peter hotez at texas children's hospital, and founding deal of the national school of tropical medicine in texas. doctor hotez what is coming from the right is sort of going into patients eheads and coming out in places like doctors' offices. >> what's happening, nicolle is what you're hearing from tucker carlen, and by the way it's not only tucker carlson. this has been a new theme of nighttime fox news, and it's a

playback of all the antishove vaccine rants and disinformation coming out of dedicated anti-vaccine group. which is now identified as having 58 million followers. what you are hearing coming occupy fox news at night now is that covid-19 vaccines affect fertility, absolutely not true. you're hearing the questioning of the effectiveness. you're hearing that vaccines are being forced, and then you're hearing all the fake health freedom arguments, so i'm not sure what's going on, but there's a tear in the meat -- matrix there. >> tim miller, he gave a new benchmark. he gave the fourth of july as

the life experience we're reaching for. today he put numbers behind it, giving the country the 7 on% vaccinated. i would guess this chunk, 13% or 14% that separates us from that will be the most difficult. what advice would you give them? >> well, look, i think they need to get out of the political red/blue media, and get into sports media. i was encouraged that the governor of west virginia, credit where due, his office is paying people. the governor of new jersey is offering free beer. we have to put everything on the table, and it has to be a focus on how to get into red households. if you look at the bottom ten states on vaccinations, it's all red states. the top two, three blue states are close to the 70% goal.

this is the main issue the white house has to deal with. there's nothing, by the way, similar to the last segment. this isn't inevitable. there's nothing about the conservative culture or heart other brain or soul that makes them more naturally skeptical. they are getting led down this pat by president trump, tucker carlson and a whole ecosystem of anti-vax is this. >> the really exciting new, dr. hotez, is these vaccines are in trial for kids even younger, 12 to 15. talk to us about what you've seen in these studies. >> certainly in the adolescence, it looks great. there was a phase three study where 1200 kids 122015 were vaccinated, 1200 placebo.

so complete efficacy, which is extraordinary, and it goes with really high levels of virus neutralizing antibody, which is the closest we have to correlate protection. so we can fully vaccinate, not only can we open up middle schools and high schools safely in the fall, it means we could vaccinate or way out this, because it's also halting transmission. what it means is the president said 70% of adults is actually not enough in the long run. we need 70% to 75% of the entire population. because we have about 15% of the u.s. population under the age of 12 not yet eligible, it mean practically every adult and adolescent. i think the president is now focusing on ensuring that anyone who wants to get vaccination nated will, and that's

commendable, but ultimately he'll have to deal with the conservative groups. thank you both. after the break, the one and only dr. anthony fauci. he'll join us next. fauci he'll join us next y medicine possible at 40,000 feet. instead of burning our past for power, we can harness the energy of the tiny electron. we can create new ways to connect. rethinking how we communicate to be more inclusive than ever. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change. faster. vmware. welcome change. >> tech: every customer has their own safelite story. this couple was on a camping trip... ...when their windshield got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service you can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ this is our block. our place.

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the republican president who preceded the former president awarded dr. anthony fauci. the presidential medal of

freedom. donald trump turned him into a lightning rod to culture wars and right-wing disinformation about a raging pandemic. much of the energy in the fight to vaccinate the country is devoted to combatting that disinformation from the firmer guy as well as vaccine hesitancy, the reason that many experts believe we will not reach herd immunity as a kung according to "the washington post," here are the top 21 states where the highest percentage of people have been partially or fully vaccinated. all of them are states that joe biden won. here are the 17 at a time with the lower number of adults at least partially vaccinated, all of them, except for georgia, were won by donald trump. iowa in is in the middle. with the demand continue to say decline. the state turned down more than 75 doses from the federal government for the week of may 10th.

joining us is dr. fauci. thank for you spending time with us today. >> thank you for having me. if the scientists have done their part and the president has done his part is upping the approximate, how do you solve that political piece of hesitancy? >> it really is a significant issue. the solution to the problem of getting us back to normal and getting the number of cases down to a very low level is vaccination. it seems almost paradoxical that the people who are saying that they want to get back to norm although and that the restrictions that the public health community is putting on them is preventing them from getting back to normal. the easiest way to do it is get

vaccinated. we have to reach out in a non-pejorative way to the people who are hesitant and try to get trusted messengers, people they trust. they should be anything from a sports figure to an entertainment figure, to a clergy person, to their family doctor. i think when you start breaking it down into political ideology for a reason to or not to get vaccinated, that's so contra to the concept of public health. i'm saying things that are obvious. public health is not a political issue. it affects all of us. that was really one of the issues that's been so troublesome that we've been through and still are going through a historic pandemic in the midst of and in the context of the extreme decisiveness in

our country, which is really unfortunate. we should all be pulling together in this, the same way you do when you are at war. i mean, you don't what to push that metaphor too far, but it is like a war. we have a common enemy, and the common enemy is the virus. the common enemy is not each other. if we could put that behind us and realize the solution really is a vaccine, no doubt about it. historically, with other dizzies, -- disease itself, we're fortunate enough in this country that we have a supply of vaccines where we can literally vaccinate everybody in the country. that's the reason why we really need to do whatever we can to win over people who are hesitant, to get them to realize it's important for themselves, their own health, it's important for their family, but almost a

societal responsibility to be part of the solution with the outbreak. >> donald trump and melania trump are vaccinated. donald trump was much sicker with covid than anyone in the public knew. would it help if he taped some public service announcements, speaking directly to his supporters who make up that largest chunk of americans who are saying, at least today, that they won't get vac nailed? vaccinated? >> i'm sure he has a large, very loyal following. i'm sure that would have an impact. but, you know, our approach is not to rely on that, but to appeal to the reason and the rationale of people, and to get the messengers that they trust. you know, if you put aside political ideology, because there's another side of everybody besides their political affiliation, and i believe that if we get those

community people they can relate to, trust. even their family doctors -- i think that's something being underplayed in this. most people, if their family doctor they have trusted for a long time, that's taken care of their entire family, said, you know, it's really a very good idea to get vaccinated, protect yourself and your family, i believe you'll be seeing a lot more people coming to the other side and saying, why not? forget about political affiliation, let's just get vaccinated. >> for a fleeting time, one of the more united periods after a tragedy was the short window after 9/11. i worked for george w. bush then, i know you did as well, on very different issue. the message that every american, you know, took in was if you see something, say something, especially in new york. that was about doing your part, i guess to warn of anything

weird at an airport or a public space. is it time to turn vaccination message into real men protect their kids, protect their churches, real men protect their communities? is it time to turn it into that kind of message? >> i think you hit the nail in the head right there. that's what i've been talking about more frequently of late. let me explain, nicolle, what i mean. it's really an important issue. a significant portion of the people who don't want to get vaccinated are young people, they say i don't want to get vaccinated. besides, statistically, and they're correct in that, statistically, if you are young and healthy and you get infected, the chances are, you know, maybe 40%, that you won't even get any symptoms. if you do, they'll likely be mild. be careful.

occasionally young people really do get very sick, get hospitalized and die. you're not completely protected, but for the most part, the chances are you won't get into a lot of trouble. so people like that would obvious say, to the heck with it, let me get infected, do whatever the heck i do, and not restrict my fremont dom, as it were. the only thing wrong with the dialogue, you are looking at yourself in a vacuum. if you get infected it won't impact anybody else. that's completely incorrect. if you get infected as a healthy young person and you have no symptoms, it is likely that you will say innocently, maybe infect somebody who will get very sick. if you want to be part of the solution and take not just a

personal look as it, but take a societal responsibility to say i don't want to be part of the chain of transmission to somebody else. i want the virus to stop when it gets to me, and not infect me and make me an instrument of its spread. so even if you don't get any symptoms, you can actually be an instrument of the spread of the virus. when you look at it like that, you can say, you know, i really do have a societal responsibility. we're all in it together. you know, the same way when president george w. bush, who we both knew well and admired so much, went down to new york city and said, you know, we're all in this together, we're going to get out of this together. that's really what we should be talking about. >> those sentiments are fleeting. i think people are also confused about the goal.

is the goal herd immunity? >> i think we should just forget about that. >> i have been encouraging people of late to really not focus on that -- the concept of herd immunity is when you get enough of people vaccinated plus the people who have been infected, recovered, now protected, you get so many of them that you get a veil or blanket of protection, where the virus gets into the society, it has no place to go, it has no play to infect anybody. there are still people who are still vulnerable, but it's very different for the virus to find

them. that's what herd immunity is. the herd immunity threshold is what percentage of the population needs to be protected in order to get this blanket of full protect. >> we don't know that number for sars covid 2. we know what its for measles, because we've been dealing with it for decade, so rather than focus on the elusive threshold, what we've been saying and what president biden said this afternoon is let let's aim to get at least win dose by the fourth of july.

ed one thing i will guarantee, because we know this as a fact as a fact that the more people you get vaccinated, the more and more the infection rate will go down. we have seen that with other infections and with other countries. i gave a press conference a week or so ago where we showed the data from israel, whereas the vaccination numbers went up, the infections came right down. that's what we want to do. we want to vaccinate as many people as we possibly can and not focus on an elusive number that nobody even knows. before i let you go, how are you doing? do you have a pep in your step now that you don't have to stand behind donald trump when he tells people to inject bleach? >> i'm actually feeling fine.

it's a big challenge when you focus on the enormity of this problem, you get adrone lynn levels that are very high and you keep going. this will end, i promise you, when it does, i'll just go down, just relax, have a beer. >> take a nap, read a book. >> yep, exactly. >> dr. anthony fauci, thank you so much for making some time to talk to us. we're really grateful. >> thank you for having me. it's good to be with you. >> thank you. up next for us, the slow, painful death of trumpian conspiracy theories on voting machines and the vocal trump ally getting called out in court.

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i got you. ♪ all by yourself. ♪ go with us and get millions of flexible booking options. expedia. it matters who you travel with. i am robert strickler. i've been involved in communications in the media expedia. for 45 years. i've been taking prevagen on a regular basis for at least eight years. for me, the greatest benefit over the years has been that prevagen seems to help me recall things and also think more clearly. and i enthusiastically recommend prevagen. it has helped me an awful lot. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. a scathing new rebuke from attorneys for dominion voting this week after sydney powell, one of trump's most vocal

defenders made attempts to dismiss a $1.3 billion defamation lawsuit against her. powell argued that no reasonable person would think her claims about the 2020 election were statements of fact. that they were just opinions and legal theories, protected from defamation suits. last night, in response to her motion to dismiss, dominion attorneys, writing in a court filing that powell must be held accountable for her many, many false public statements or the court risked creating, quote, unprecedented immunity for attorneys to wage televised disinformation campaigns. the court filing continues, quote, a law license is not a license to lie. powell's is just one of many lawsuits dominion voting and another voting company called smartmatic have brought against election conspiracy theorists, and as "the washington post's" aaron blake writes in his new piece, many if not most of those lawsuits have forced major outlets to backtrack. fox news, fox business network, newsmax, wabc, which hosts rudy giuliani's radio show and one

america news have all issued corrections, clarifications, and/or apologies. joining us now is "washington post" senior political reporter aaron blake. aaron, we tried to keep an eye on these lawsuits because they do represent sort of the one forum where the lies can catch up with some of the biggest sort of disseminators of those lies. talk about where this one stands. >> well, basically, what we found out over the past week, friday evening in particular, was that there was apparently some sort of a settlement involving newsmax, which had aired some of these claims on its airways early in the recount process, early in the election challenge process, and basically, newsmax was forced, according to the little we know about this settlement, to issue an apology to a high-ranking official at dominion voting solutions. this follows in a number of -- almost a dozen of backtracks,

clarifications, corrections and now this apology that suggests that the people who were pushing these claims or at least airing them on their cable airways have sought to insulate themselves legally from the liability that could come from that, and i think that it's going to take some time to proceed with many of these cases, but at least early on, judging by those responses by these cable outlets, judging by the responses of people like sidney powell and now this apology for newsmax, it shows that they really do perceive some very significant liability in these. >> aaron blake, is it in any universe a defense to say that what sidney powell was obviously attempting to assert what she thought were facts, they were so fact-y that trump called and was weighing in and rudy with the hair melting down his face. is she saying that none of those were facts, that she was just, what, weighing in with her opinions? >> so, this is actually a pretty common defense when it comes to

these defamation lawsuits, basically arguing that there were circumstances in which you were acting as an advocate or acting as a lawyer, essentially working on behalf of somebody else or positing things that could be decided by a court of law. we saw this recently a couple years ago when it came to tucker carlson and fox news fighting back against a similar case. they actually won that case. i think in this case, it's a little bit different. we're talking about a lawyer who at least says she was acting on president trump's behalf. but many of the claims that she made, she presented as being actual facts. she said she was going to release the kraken. she said that she had proof of these things so she wasn't presenting these things as hypotheses or theories that the legal system would then deal with. she said that she had all these things in her possession. >> unbelievable. aaron blake, thank you for staying on top of these for us. we'll continue to follow it. up next, the gop fight

against voting rights was never about so-called election integrity. we already knew that. but a damning new report in the "washington post" can prove it. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. we're just getting started. brea. don't go anywhere. we're just getting started the light. ♪ it comes from within. it drives you. and it guides you. to shine your brightest. ♪ as you charge ahead. illuminating the way forward. a light maker. recognizing that the impact you make comes from the energy you create. introducing the all-electric lyriq. lighting the way. ♪ we started with computers. we didn't stop at computers. we didn't stop at storage or cloud. we kept going. working with our customers to enable the kind of technology that can guide an astronaut back to safety. and help make a hospital come to you, instead of you going to it.

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♪♪ we had a system. we had confidence in the system. we knew it was safe. the result of 2020 from an administrative perspective was that florida had the most transparent and efficient election anywhere in the country. >> hi again, everyone. it's 5:00 in the east. the gop keeps giving away their

big little lies. that was florida's gop governor ron desantis boasting about how safe and efficient and transparent his election was. not only was it not broken, it was something to be held up and modeled so the state's election security bill awaiting desantis's signature doesn't even get to masquerade as an election security bill. they should just call it what it is, florida's voting obstacle course bill, or an exercise designed to make it harder to vote. not safer. not more efficient. and definitely not more transparent. sb-90 is a make donald trump smile again measure designed to goose republican chances in a state already solidly leaning red by making it harder to vote in these specific ways. it will make voter registration more difficult. it will limit access to ballot dropboxes. and this one's really important. it makes it harder to obtain a mail-in ballot. again, there was no widespread vote fraud in florida, although there was an instance where

former republican state senator was arrested for paying thousands to a sham candidate who could take votes away from the democrat in that state senate race. but in a twist that shows that karma is still a thing, "the washington post" reveals that republican efforts just might backfire in florida. quote, virtually every narrow republican victor of the past generation, and there have been many, including two of the state's current top office holders, desantis and rick scott, owes their victory at least in part to mail voting. now, some florida republicans are reacting with alarm after the gop dominated state legislature with desantis's support passed a far-reaching bill thursday night that puts new restrictions on the use of mail ballots. not only are gop lawmakers reversing statutes that their own predecessors put in place but they're curtailing a practice that millions of state republicans use, that's despite former president donald trump's relentless and baseless claims that it invites fraud.

when faced with the prospect that the new restrictions could hinder votes from elderly and military voters, groups who overwhelmingly tend to vote by mail, members of the florida gop panicked. "the post" continues with this. one former state party official said some republicans discussed whether lawmakers could exempt those two groups from the provision requiring voters to request mail ballots every election cycle. it's a comment which greg sergeant of the "washington post" exposed for its hypocrisy, writing this republican source says republicans are so worried this key provision would dampen participation that they talked about getting lawmakers to exempt two of their key constituencies from it and to selectively apply it to other voters. it didn't pass legal muster and wouldn't go anywhere. it's quite a glimpse into the mind of republicans supposedly motivated to restore piety to

elections. the lie is not limited to florida politics. a piece in "the new york times" magsy says this. donald trump's refusal to acknowledge his loss of 2020 election has placed his party in the awkward position of denying its own down ballot successes in many states. this has been particularly striking in texas where the gop was arguably better positioned than republicans elsewhere to escape his gravitational pull. texas republicans performed better than expected in november, yet the state has nearly 50 bills under consideration that would restrict voting access. the gop potentially shooting themselves in the foot and its war against voting access is where we start this hour. eddie glaude, chair of the department of african-american studies at princeton university is here. also joining us, robert gibbs, and former republican congressman david jolly, national chairman of the serve america movement is here, lucky for us, all three msnbc contributors. david jolly, i'll start with you because i started with florida.

you know, i've had conversations with republicans who say, well, nicole, what's your problem with having to have an i.d.? and i said, this is not about me and my problems, but what is your interest in solving something that isn't a problem in the country? i mean, how do you get at the idiocy of laws just in search of problems that don't exist? >> that's exactly the way to frame it. nicole, public policy can often be devoid of critical thinking and the new florida voting law is a perfect example of that. ron desantis, the day after the election, said the florida election results should inspire confidence, that they should be a model for other states. he lauded the performance of florida election integrity. but as the big lie seeped in, it also seeped into the republican political narrative, and so naturally, you had a republican-led legislature in

tallahassee have to carry on the notion of the big lie. and so they implemented a new vote or what they call voter integrity bill, very much like the state of georgia and other states as well. the bottom line, though, is as you mentioned, it is a solution in search of a problem, but critically, it makes it harder to vote in florida this year than it was last year, and i think that's the critical thing. look, as a nation, voting should be as easy and accessible as it can be secure. we've solved security. we've moved billions of dollars a day on our phone, on our tablets, at our desktop. we could vote digitally using social media -- not social media platforms but using app platforms on digital devices. that's the way we actually grow the vote. instead, not only are we accepting today's paradigm of the limits of voting participation, but now we're rolling it back and going backwards. to your point, mail ballot voting in florida has been a currency of the republican party for the modern gop in the sunshine state. this could very well hurt the

gop in razor thin races. >> the answer isn't to fight these gop suppression laws and try to eke out wins in these largely republican legislatures. the fight should be to come up with something bigger to come up with, you know, online voting or voting on the phone. is that something that you're involved in or pushing or know of? >> well, it certainly should be, and there are groups that are pushing it. consider where we have moved digital participation in monetary platforms and social media platforms and cryptocurrencies. we have security provisions to allow for the digital transfer of billions of dollars of money. we can allow somebody to vote on their phone. we are accepting the paradigm that politicians have put in front of us, and we're arguing over election integrity provisions that reflect the technology of 50 years ago. the real debate over expanding access to more americans, getting more americans involved,

particularly in disparate impacted communities where we see lower voter turnout is to bring the vote to them, not to ask them to engage in these new procedural hurdles to be able to exercise their franchise. we're accepting the false narrative from florida republicans and republicans across the country. they're doing so to gain favor with donald trump. what they're doing is they're rolling back the franchise for generations. >> you know, eddie, i started the last hour with kevin mccarthy trying to purge liz cheney because she won't go along with the lie, and he can't have anyone in leadership who won't repeat the lie and be part of the lie. and i guess, covering a story about voter suppression laws based on a lie is as enjoyable as sticking needles in my eyeballs but we have to do it because this is what is happening. it's happening in 47 states. i think there are 108 bills, at least. this one in florida has passed the state legislature. the one in texas is winding its way through.

republican governors in both states have signalled their intention to sign them. what happens next? >> well, we have to fight. we have to fight for our democracy, it seems to me, nicole. i mean, let's be very clear. there is a direct line between what happened on january 6th and what we're seeing with these voter suppression laws. there is, when you ask the question, what is a policy in search of a problem? that's because when you ask that question, nicole, in some ways you're attributing good faith to those that are engaged in this. we need to understand the underlying motivation. the underlying motivation is to restrict the size of the electorate. the underlying motivation is to somehow curtail the effects and implications of the demographic shifts in the country. the underlying motivation is to stop in its tracks what we saw in the november election where you saw black folk and brown folk and young folk, all of these new voters showing up at the polls. and so, what we see very clearly is this assault on our democracy, so we have to

understand it for what it is and then respond accordingly. we have to respond accordingly. because oftentimes, we attribute good faith to these folk, when in fact, they are engaged in an all-out assault on our democracy. it seems to me. >> well, and i've got some numbers, robert gibbs, to back up eddie's point. this is as from the "washington post." florida republicans rushed to curb mail voting after trump's attacks on the practice. the shift is starkly visible among black voters who overcame their mistrust of mail voting in droves last year with 552,000 choosing to vote that way compared with 245,000 earlier. that's according to the university of florida. black voters overwhelmingly vote for democratic candidates. why isn't the fight more frantic on the democratic side to protect the rights of 552,000 voters who largely turn out for them? is it just that they're outnumbered in these state legislatures? i mean, is this voting rights bill worth having a national

debate about the filibuster over, in your view, robert gibbs? >> it's definitely worth having a fight about, and it's definitely worth getting involved in it. i think in a number of these states, you have legislative minority -- majorities in these states that don't, quite frankly, make for robust debate. once one party, like the republican party in a georgia or florida decides this is going to be the law of the land, then it's going to be the law of the land. i do think it is interesting, you talked about at the beginning of the segment, this law of sort of unintended consequences. i heard from i can't count how many republicans in florida last fall concerned that this was actually going to sabotage their years-long efforts to get voters in their party to vote by mail. and the concern of hearing donald trump, over and over and over again, talk about not getting a ballot by mail was going to undermine him. and i do think there's a real --

a real danger for the republican party continuing this big lie around telling their own voters, and we saw this in georgia in the runoffs, telling their voters not to have confidence in the system and therefore they drop out of the voting. so i think there's a series of unintended consequences, but the statistics with black voters in the democratic party are obviously deeply alarming, and i think it is something that you're going to continue to see democrats fight in legislatures if they think and in courts when they need to. >> so, i will send a box of doughnuts to anyone who reads this quote to anyone on fox news that needs to hear it but here are the facts about voter fraud, david jolly. a review of local news reports show there aren't many examples of even individual voter fraud. by our count, there have been 16 incidents in which someone has faced criminal charges stemming from their attempt to vote

illegally. and i went through and read all these. a couple of -- i don't want to misrepresent them, but a couple of them are -- i mean, there's 16. there's 16 cases. i'll tweet it out later because i don't want to misrepresent anything in this category, but there were 16 cases, and we know from all the great reporting in the "washington post" and the "new york times" and other places that bill barr, before the election, was willing to go out and investigate any allegations of voter fraud. mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy kept their patter dry. they said nothing while donald trump pounded his chest and screamed about voter fraud. gabe sterling had to go out and say, someone's going to get shot, then someone got shot at the insurrection on january 6th and here we still are, the republicans bathing in a big lie, a lie about widespread voter fraud. they're counting ballots in an auditorium in arizona, maricopa county, right now, today, based on the big lie, and there were 16 cases of voter fraud, david jolly. what do you do about a party that is so rotten it has -- it's purging liz cheney from

leadership, it's got an auditorium full of 2.1 million ballots in maricopa county and this is something that happened 16 times. >> i think we first have to start by accepting the statements and behavior we see from today's republican party as factual as to their convictions and not a simple aberration that can be washed away by the condemnation of folks like liz cheney. this is today's republican party. it lives and operates in a post-truth and post-fact environment, and when it comes to the voting bills that have been passed, the only thing you can assume and draw from it is that they are willing to compromise the voting franchise of individuals that they hope don't have the opportunity to go out and vote for somebody of the opposition party. that's the only thing that can be drawn. they're not trying to make it easier to vote. they're not trying to make it easier to exercise your franchise. they're trying to make it harder, and there must be a reason, and the reason is, because they're only protected, their super majority is only protected by gerrymandered

districts and closed primaries and the deep pockets that fuel the campaigns of republicans in florida and states across the country. that is the condemnation. the worry, nicole, and i say this worry, you know, robert refers kind of to whichever party controls, they control, and there's nothing you can do about it. that's true. i worry what we do in the state of florida and across the country when one of only two viable major parties in the country subscribes to this type of political currency, and today, it is getting nearly 50% of the support of the american people. i don't know what that means for us as a culture. i don't know what that means for us as a country, and i certainly don't know what that means for the future of us as a united people. >> and into the, i guess, vacuum being created by one of the two parties sort of brazenly standing against voter access, eddie, is the activation of the business community in pretty unprecedented ways. 180 local texas businesses and

community leaders have reached out to the texas legislature. are these efforts, in your view, sort of a last hope? are they futile? are they promising? what do you make of businesses engaging in the state houses where they're passing these laws? >> well, i think they're necessary. it has to have a little bite to it. whether or not these same businesses will contribute to campaigns, to the rnc and the like, so it has to come with some sticks as opposed to just simply a statement of commitments. but i think it's also -- i want us to kind of understand the stakes here, because i understand the politics on the ground that robert just laid out. but look, there are these moments in our history where we have decided, as a country, to take things away from us all because we don't want to share it. heather mcgee in her wonderful book talks about the public pools and the moment in which those pools were thought of as

these bastions of extraordinary democracy where we would come out of our ethnic enclaves, put on our swimming trunks and suddenly a new melting pot of america would be evidence but the moment black folks demanded access to those pools, we filled them up with concrete, covered them with grass. so here we have in november all of these folks showing up, changing the very nature of our very democracy and what are we seeing, people willing to throw the whole thing into the trash bin because they only want it for themselves. we have to sound the alarm, nicole. we can't just read it as normal politics. our democracy is at stake. >> and robert gibbs, that is the story. that is the common thread. republicans now are happy and content to trash our democracy. >> yeah, and to the point that each of the guests have made, i don't know where that ends, and i don't know what comes out of the back end of that, because

the whole system is based off of choosing your representatives and being able to have that access, and it's been something that's been hard fought for, and people have bled and died for. and when we just erase that as eddie just said, i think that leaves us an extraordinarily poorer country, but i don't know, also, where that leaves us in five or ten years and where that leaves the republican party on this journey down the road and away from trump or back to him. >> well, i'll tell you this, if they pass these laws now and it helps him in the midterms, they'll make sure they pass in every single state. this is the whole ball game for the republican party. this is it. this is the fight. robert gibbs, david jolly, thank you for starting us off this hour. disturbing conversation. eddie is sticking around. when we return, two voters, two illegal ballots and two very different outcomes.

pennsylvania man who voted for trump using his dead mother's ballot gets probation, while an african-american woman in texas whose ballot didn't even count gets sentenced to prison. that story is next. plus, attorney general merrick garland takes his fight against domestic terrorism to congress as the rift between top republican leaders deepens. and would you get vaccinated for a hundred bucks? how about a beer? states and cities are rolling out all kinds of incentives to encourage people to get the shot. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ontinues after a quick break. dot n'go anywhere. ♪ when i was young ♪ no-no-no-no-no please please no. ♪ i never needed anyone. ♪ front desk. yes, hello... i'm so... please hold. ♪ those days are done. ♪

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as we've been discussing, republicans are seeking and have

sought to suppress the votes of communities of color, and it's all under the guise of election integrity and a desire or at least stated on their part to cut down on illegitimate ballots. even in that effort, racial undertones persist. we'll share with you two headlines. you can draw your own conclusions. first, in pennsylvania, a 70-year-old man pleaded guilty to felony perjury and unlawful voting for using his deceased mother's absentee ballot to vote for donald trump in november. he told the judge he was, quote, isolated last year in lockdown and, quote, listened to too much propaganda and made a stupid mistake. the sentence handing down to him, he happened to be a white man, was five months probation. okay. see if you can follow where this is going. in texas, a woman of color, a black woman, is currently appealing a conviction for voting illegally in the 2016 election. her vote, a provisional ballot that didn't get counted.

she was on supervised release after serving time and wasn't aware that she was still ineligible to vote. again, her vote was never tallied, yet she finds herself fighting a five-year prison sentence. joining our conversation, "new york times" political reporter and msnbc contributor nick confessore. eddie glaude is still here. it strikes me that republicans may have not bargained for an examination of what the facts are around voting fraud in america when they made it the central issue when the lie led to a deadly insurrection and now is on the precipice of leading to a purge of liz cheney from leadership. it's worth everybody understanding the truth of voting fraud in this country. "the washington post" writes about 16 cases this year of illegal voting. this story, though, about the disparities of how a white man in pennsylvania and a black woman in texas were treated tells another even darker layer to this story. >> that's right, nicole.

look, for 15 years, activists on the right, inside and outside the accomplishment, have been trying to promote the idea that there is widespread fraud in the voting, especially in communities of color. and they have wanted to perpetuate that narrative to justify a crackdown on voting rights to make it harder to vote. here's the problem. for years and years, they have failed to find that evidence. they've looked for it. they've had sympathetic prosecutors trying to find it. they have not found it. and in texas, crystal mason, a person who cast a provisional ballot, not being sure if she was eligible. the vote did not count. she was threatened with five years in prison and is still fighting against going to prison. in pennsylvania, a white man can try to cast two votes for dead people and succeed in casting one and he gets five years probation, which, by the way, is probably a punishment in keeping with the severity of the crime. so, what you see here is a huge

disparity that if somebody could be roped into the narrative of voter fraud or massive voter fraud, you can see them being punished severely. in this case, if it's a republican trying to elect trump, then it's probation. >> eddie, you know, again, we didn't go looking for cases to fill any preconceived notions but the facts tell, as i said, a really troubling additional layer to this story. >> absolutely. and you know, i think it's really important for us to understand that this kind of disparity exists throughout american society, right? so, it all -- you know, and the question around voter fraud, this has been a kind of argument that we could trace all the way back to reconstruction and the south's argument against extending the franchise to black voters then. the claim that would be widespread voter fraud in the face of widespread voter suppression, so there's a kind

of historical lineage to this claim, nicole. but i want us to understand. this evidence, in light of the past debate last news cycle around, is america a racist country? and whether you -- however you respond to that question, you need to ask why is it being made? why is the claim being made now? is america racist? usually, that question is being asked to limit the scope of our remedy. when you have examples like this, we see systemic bias in the criminal justice system, and we have to figure out how to address it, but in order to do so, you got to tell yourself the truth, and republicans, america sometimes, we don't want to tell ourselves the truth. >> well, and nick, these stories are really important, are really helpful to understanding the truth and obviously we're still covering them. but you've got -- you know, one party has already driven over the cliff and set up camp at the bottom with their bloodied and, you know, bruised bodies. what do you do if you can't sort

of permeate that post-truth half of the country with these cold, hard facts? >> you know, it's a good question, nicole. this propaganda is very powerful. what we saw with bruce bartman in pennsylvania is that he was listening to president trump. sorry, i had a call there. it was president trump's propaganda, propaganda from supporters of the president that made him do it, in his account. he said he believed the lies. and in a weird sense, he decided he had to cheat because the other side was cheating. he has now been deprogrammed by the criminal justice system to understand and realize that he was being lied to. i'm not sure we can get everyone to go through that, and i'm not sure what the answer really is. the fact is, if you have powerful people with big broadcast audiences who were big on twitter and they have acolytes who are going to spread this stuff, people are going to

believe it. that's the lesson. if the lie is big, people will believe it. >> and if the lie is repeated to these people, they believe it, it becomes their truth. eddie, you hinted at something bigger. i want to give you a chance to say more about that. >> my only point is this, nicole. we have to fight for the -- this is an existential battle, and it seems to me that we're playing too nice with these people. they're not -- we treat their arguments as if they're serious. these folk are going at the heart of our democracy. that's the first point. and the second point, it's motivated. it is motivated, at least it seems to me, not by just simply the crude and crass pursuit of power but an insidious view of who and what this country should be, and if we don't respond in kind, i'm talking about the democrats now, i'm talking about those republicans who reject this view, we are being complicit in giving over our

democracy to these people who don't give a damn about it. >> eddie, you've -- i'm going to press even further because i think that, you know, an hour ago i started screaming at poor jake sherman who just said liz cheney doesn't have the opinion that -- these are not opinions, and we're part of the problem, there are not two sides to the voting rights debate. there is no voter fraud. there were 16 cases of criminal voter fraud in america. the capitol was stormed. five people died. they are counting ballots in maricopa county, as i said, 2.1 million ballots are being scanned by at least one guy who was at the insurrection. how do you instill the urgency, not just -- it shouldn't just be on the democratic party, but on people who don't want to see the country turn into this? >> you know, that is the million dollar question or the $64 million question, as you said last hour, right?

i mean, part of what we have to do is search our hearts. that sounds too sentimental. we have to understand the stakes and actually show some spine and courage, right? and you know, there's this real serious fear, nicole, of alienating this segment of america as if we're going to trigger the civil war. we're already in it. and you have to choose your side. and i think this is what you're trying to say. look at what they're doing in maricopa county. look at what they're doing across 47 states, right? the insurrection of january 6th is ongoing. and we have to understand it as such and we have to act with urgency. unless you view it in that way, then you're going to try to think that you can actually attribute good faith and engage in the usual machinations of politics. this is not a typical moment. we are in uncharted territory, it seems to me. that's not an answer, i guess. >> and this is not a typical -- yeah, no, it's the perfect

answer. it's not a typical news cycle because the republican party is starving for people to see it that way. liz cheney is one of them and she's on the verge of being purged from house gop leadership. nick confessore, eddie glaude, thank you for having this extended conversation with me. when we return, nearly four months after the capitol riot, attorney general merrick garland is making his case for more money to fight domestic terrorism. that's next. money to fight domestic terrorism. that's next. the bowls are back. applebee's irresist-a-bowls all just $8.99.

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serving on the house armed services committee, a popular question that we would ask the joint chiefs of staff and others is, you know, what keeps you up at night regarding the safety of the united states of america? >> my oath is to protect the constitution and americans from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. and so, both forms of terrorism are extraordinary concern to me. we have a growing fear of domestic violent extremism and domestic terrorism, and both of those keep me up at night. >> that was attorney general merrick garland today in front of the house appropriations committee as he asked congress, asking them for more money to combat extremism within the united states. in his first capitol hill testimony as attorney general, garland presented the justice department's budget, which

requests $85 million more for domestic terrorism investigations. the request shows that garland is making good on his promise from his confirmation hearings earlier this year where he said that his first priority as attorney general would be an investigation into the capitol riot on january 6th, and garland isn't the only one looking into what happened on that fateful day. congress is also debating how to investigate and that's creating some large fissures in the already broken gop. after breaking with fellow republicans and calling for a narrow investigation into the january 6th insurrection only, congresswoman liz cheney now finds herself at odds again with minority leader kevin mccarthy and the rest of her party, leaving her leadership position as conference chair very much in danger today. joining our conversation, sam stein, politico's white house editor and my colleague, msnbc news capitol hill correspondent leigh ann caldwell. we got at this a little bit, but one of the undercurrents to this

real public rupture between kevin mccarthy and liz cheney that burst out in the form of a hot mic moment in this "fox & friends" interview is her disagreement on throwing in every -- any groups that weren't involved and aren't under scrutiny for the january 6th insurrection, and i wonder, leigh ann, how that is sort of playing out in the halls up there of congress. >> reporter: well, nicole, liz cheney is siding with speaker pelosi on that issue, on how a commission looking into january 6th should look. she wants a more limited scope, one that looks at january 6th, but every time that liz cheney talks about 2020, the election, talks about how the former president is lying about the last election, that it was, in fact, not stolen from him and that joe biden did legitimately win that election, it is also

very noticeable of what leader kevin mccarthy is not saying. he is not saying those things. instead, he is skirting this very fine line, trying to maintain his closeness with the former president. he thinks that that is what is going to get republicans to win the midterm elections in 2022. he also thinks that is what is going to propel him into the speakership. so, when leader mccarthy is talking about how republicans are worried about the message and liz cheney's ability to deliver a republican message over the next two years in her -- as her role as conference chair, he's also talking about how it complicates his own message, not only for the party's goals of winning the majority but his own message of winning the speakership, nicole. >> you know, sam, when i sometimes slide into my ability

to remember what it was like to think like a republican, if the shoes were on the other feet, and the democrats were obstructing an investigation into a domestic terror attack on the capitol, where hang mike pence was chanted by the insurrectionists, this would be a daily drum beat. why don't democrats want to get to the bottom of the deadly insurrection? what do they have to hide? what are the contours of the fight? is this -- do democrats see this as a salient issue, or are they just at a loss about why the republicans don't want to narrowly probe an attack that had all of them hiding and locked away in their own offices? >> that's a great question, one we've actually been reporting out on the white house angle. clearly, if you listen to joe biden's speech before congress, last week, feels like an eternity ago now, but last week, he spends a good deal of time talking about how they was a seminal moment, a gut check

moment for the country. he framed it as a diversion of paths between an autocracy and a democracy. i keep thinking back, this is not an apples to apples comparison, but i keep thinking back to the debate that barack obama faced about whether or not to investigate the use of torture during the bush administration. barack obama's preferred position was, we cannot look backwards. we must look forwards. so he resisted these types of commissions until ultimately they did, in fact, launch one. but biden feels different. with biden, he's much more embraceful of the idea that we have to confront what happened on january 6th, and that ostensibly includes supporting this commission. at the same time, though, to your point, nicole, you don't get the sense just, you know, judging by the sheer amount of attention and pressure being put on by democrats, that they are investing that much political capital into making this happen and/or making republicans feel some sort of political pain for

resisting it. it's not being hammered home day in and day out, and now i hark back to another time in the obama era for a reference point, which is early on, you might recall this, the department of homeland security put out a report that looked at domestic terrorism. it was called right-wing domestic terrorism, and there was a cry -- an outcry on the right about this, to the point where they had to rescind the report and i believe the author of it quit the department. and there was this tentativeness among democrats to wage into these types of investigations that, you know, clearly can be seen in a partisan lens. and i wonder if some democrats are fearful that if they push too hard on this, it will erupt and that they need to be very delicate and careful. so, we'll see what happens in the days and weeks ahead. but you know, clearly, to your point, i think they could be pressing harder on this. >> leigh ann, was there any resistance to merrick garland's request for that increase to prosecute domestic violent extremism cases?

>> reporter: there wasn't from democrats, that's for sure. republicans throughout that hearing, they didn't ask a lot of questions about that. they focused a lot of their questions on immigration, on what is happening at the border, and they know that that is a topic that is good for them politically. they know that is a weakness for democrats, a weakness for president joe biden, especially in those -- in the suburbs, that republicans lost so handily in 2020 and also in 2018. and so, republicans are not wanting to talk about domestic terrorism. they're not wanting to talk about what happened on january 6th, because it's not good for them politically, and it reminds voters of their role and that the former president's position leading into all of this. nicole? >> i can't wait for liz cheney to give the first speech for a sitting elected republican about

the rise of domestic violent extremism in the united states of america and its intersection with the insurrection. not that she has one planned but it's just a remarkable vacuum. no one on the right has any questions about how we got here, why there was an insurrection at the capitol, whether their mission state was hang mike pence. just a remarkable, remarkable state of affairs. sam stein and leigh ann caldwell, thank you for being here. when we return, fighting vaccine hesitancy with beer and cash. that story's next. beer and shca that story's next. [sfx: psst psst] allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! all good as your business changes, the united states postal service is changing with it. with e-commerce that runs at the speed of now. next day and two-day shipping nationwide, and returns right from the doorstep. it's a whole new world out there. let's not keep it waiting. i'm searching for info on options trading,

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i've been taking prevagen for about three years now. people say to me periodically, "man, you've got a memory like an elephant." it's really, really helped me tremendously. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. tonight, i'll be eating a pork banh mi with extra jalapeños. [doorbell rings] thanks, baby. yeah, we 'bout to get spicy for this virtual date. spicy like them pajama pants. hey, the camera is staying up here. this is not the second date. with schizophrenia, i see progress differently. it's in the small things i look forward to. with the people i want to share it with. it's doing my best to follow through. it's the little signs that make me feel like things could be better. signs that make it feel like real progress. caplyta effectively treats adults with schizophrenia. and it's just one pill, once a day, with no titration. caplyta can cause serious side effects. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke.

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some cities and states across the country are taking a new approach to try to persuade vaccine holdouts to take the shot. maryland, new jersey, and connecticut are the latest states offering everything from cash to beer as incentives to get vaccinated as demand for the vaccine starts to wane. let's bring into our conversation msnbc senior national correspondent chris janicing, live in philadelphia where efforts are under way to try to vaccinate young adults, and msnbc medical contributor dr. kavita patel, former obama white house health policy director. what works with these younger people who dr. fauci said earlier in the hour, they think they won't get super sick but we still need them vaccinated as part of that fabric of immunity? >> reporter: couple things. target the message, what we just heard. who isn't going to relate to party hard? they want to get out there and have a great fourth of july but you have to go to where they are, and that is social media. they're not watching "nightly news" at 6:30 every night and so

here at jefferson health, for example, there's a doctor, austin chang who has 400,000 followers on tiktok. that's where you'll see those zoomers at. and he will dance, he will make you laugh. he will mock some of the crazy stuff that's out there that is simply not true, and he will engage with that audience. that's exactly what the biden administration is hoping and he is not alone. i spoke, for example, to a virologist who told me, you have to answer their questions, they're legitimate. the questions we're hearing, folks who are young, they think they're not going to get sick. of course they're in the least likely category. but they could get sick. they say operation warp speed may have been too speedy. what the doctors will say is, those are legitimate questions. you have to be able to answer them. and it's not just medical professionals. the biden administration has a

big community core, lots of organizations, who are trusted partners. we saw it when the black community was hesitant. they went to churches, they went to ministers. now, for example, they're going to gen next america, the organization that got a lot of folks out to the polls, young people to get engaged in the political process in 2020. starting next week, nicole, they will send out one million text messages. all these folks with a single message, which is get the shot. >> that's amazing. dr. patel, where do you come down on cash for vaccine or beer for vaccine. i just saw a doughnut with a vaccine card. are you a by any means possible let's get our country vaccinated? or do you think there is some gray area where that's not a great idea? >> no. i guess i fall into the meet people where they are by any means possible. i will say something that could

be incredibly controversial. there is still 4 in 10 health care workers that have refused the vaccine. i think as a patient, one has made assumptions. i'm a big proponent of do what we need to do to get people vaccinated, but honor and respect the questions. i have got a high refusal rate with young women. but i keep asking. >> when you turn someone, what are some of the ways that they breakthrough? >> now i'm going to show my age. i'm like, don't you want to do this? do you have grandparents, moms, aunts or uncles? you're doing this so they can stay healthy. and then they realize the concept of herd immunity is really complicated.

we do a terrible job of communicating it. don't do it for you. do it because you love your grandmother. so i have been talking to the older women in my family. i'm like, you need to make all these people feel guilty. they should feel so guilty that they get vaccinated in a safe way. that's the approach i've been successful at. >> i think starting to appeal to people's commitment to their communities and extended families, i think that might be something we haven't spent as much time talking about. >> thank you both so much for joining us and spending some time with us today. when we return, as we do every day, we will remember lives well-lived. -lived

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we're grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. >> welcome to "the beat." we're tracking several big stories tonight. a new hot mic moment. these are often the most revealing things in washington. this time it's republican leader mccarthy caught trashing liz cheney. matt gaetz speaking out in depth since this bombshell alleged confession letter. we will hear what gaetz is saying later tonight. but we begin with