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tv   Hallie Jackson Reports  MSNBC  May 5, 2021 7:00am-8:00am PDT

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r more than 9 ingredients. 9 elements - more than a clean, a cleanse. >> this morning trump still banned, at least for now. the oversight board ruling that the former president will not be let back on the platform, least not today. but the door is still open with the board kicking it back to facebook to decide his ultimate fate in the next six plonts. we're going to talk about what happens next, and why this decision is bigger than just him. we're live and we're live with the director of that over sight
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board. we wait for the former president himself to weigh in. forces tell me that will likely not be a very long weight. i'm hallie jackson in washington and before we bring in the director i want to go live to tb head quarters, so jake the bottom line is this ban stans for probably six months. but after that facebook, it seems, basically would have three options. they could let him back on, but remove content that is problematic. >> facebook was told by the board they have to keep the former president off of the platform but it also has to come up with a clearer reason why.
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in the decision they say they upheld the decision but it was not qualified for a indefinite ban. we will consider the board's decision and determine an ax that is clear and proportionate. this is, of course, not just a straight up or down vote that we had been wondering about it. and what that might mean next. what will it mean for other social media companies. as you know twitter, the get megaphone of the suspension, they say it is permanent, but platforms like youtube have not
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said one way or another how long he may remain off of them. the decision to keep the president off of facebook, that was his great ground game, they say all of that, that is all in question now. >> jake live out there in facebook headquarters, thank you. i want to bring in thomas hues for his first television interview. i think we have you, good morning and thank you for being with us. >> good morning, pleasure to join you. >> decision is very clear in so far as, you know, the board found that the suspension of former president trump was necessary to keep people safe.
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and that the options spoke on what they determined a severe violation. the board also said an indefinite suspension is contrary to what should be clear and consistent laws, and that it impedes and affects freedom of express rights around the world. so stressing the fact that it is within six months rather than after six months. and it needs to come back and impose a new penalty consistent with it's own rules. at the same time i think the abort is very clear that this decision really safeguards freedom of expression, right? it rejects the arbitrary rules that could have an effect on freedom of express, and you know
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facebook must make it's rules on things like account suspensions and decisions, to make those rules consistent and transparent. at the same time, you know, the board is also recognizing the importance of production of political rights. there is users in that speech where there is a risk, and they are saying that facebook is seeking to avoint responsibilities, that is the line from the decision. do you think they mishandled this initial ban?
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>> they did not handle the case in a way that is clear and consistent. they're saying you need to go back, be consistent, and apply a penalty that exists in those as you have as your stated penalties. they're also making clare say there is a potential for an online posting that their speed could effect, you know, individuals through inciting violence. or discrimination or law less action, that there needs to be a harms test or assessments before they are reinstated, or in very
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severe cases, it is likt for some individuals to have their accountants delated. >> do you believe wasted on what you have seen in the several months here, do you think it is a partisan organization at it's core? >> i think by applying the rules that the board has suggested, by taking on board the recommendations, and making sure they are functioning in a transparent manner, i think that would greatly help, i can't say if they are or they aren't. we don't have insight into that decision making. there needs to be greater
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transparency. >> they said it was appropriate in the immediate after math of what happened, but they were talking about things he said about looting and things like that. they looked at only the riot related posts. why did the board restrict itself to just that? so they look at the wider actions. the decision itself focuss specifically on those posts on the 6th and 7th of january. others thought it was relevant to look at community standards to look at former president trump's online history.
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but in the specific case that the board was given the decision was enough for a firm decision. >> is this an instance where most of the board came to a broad consensus early on? or was this contentious all of the way through. give us insight into that. >> as noted the decision itself is contentious. you can see and i would encourage everyone to read it in detail. you can see where that consensus lay and as you pointed out you can see where minority opinions were and you can get a field that there was a broad spectrum of opinion on the board, and the board itself has a lot of opinions and perspectives globally and from the united
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states. and those are all reflected in the deliberations. >> given we know the board has been described, and you know this, as like a supreme court for facebook. as you know, that trust is paid into. and there are crust tees that oversee the responsibilities of the trust, and the board members themselves are insulated from that and they have responsibility for deliberations on cases and choosing and viefing board members and that is funded through the trust that has been created. but i think more, you know
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meaningfully the board members themselves, who they are, what they said in the past, the fact that they have many of them held facebook to act, i think that really speaks to the independent make the of the board, and the decision that's have been taken, i think you can see a very strong and robust feelings anderson the rules and how they're applied. >> i know we're element out of time here, but before we go i want to ask you in your personal opinion, what do you believe facebook should do in the next six months as it relates to former president trump and his account? >> i think looking at closely what the board is saying. it is saying to facebook always you were correct on the day,
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although it was a severe violation, it's not in proportion to an indefinite suspension. but in the future, what kind of test should be applied and how users should be applied, how should their actions be addressed? mr. hughs, thank you for your time. we'll have more on the developing news later in the show including more on how this could bract trump's future, and his ability to raise cash. and why they're demanding a new trial, and also new, the number two house republican calling for liz cheney to be replaced.
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there are a lot of talk in the gop this morning. they have been going after liz
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whenny again. days in her house leadership seem numbers. cheney has taken on the former president pretty publicly calling out his plies that the 2020 election was stolen. it was not, he lost to joe biden. no word on who they want to replace cheney should it come to that. and that comes after the current number two gop house leader said the same thing. a spokesperson said steve scalise also wants cheney replaced. they warn that republicans "purging liz cheney for honesty" would damage the party. as we were coming on the air, liz cheney's spokesperson is now
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responding to all of this back and forth. what are you hearing from cheney's office? >> this is a really quickly moving story and the downal in the republican conference has been so fast. her office is now responding to representative steve scalise. cheney's office is saying she will have a lot more to say about this later saying this is bigger than a leadership position, insinuating this is about the future of the republican party and she is define saying the former president no longer needs to be part of the party and the election was not stolen. so with the fact that steve
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scalise came out to back stefanik, a trump supporter, who voting to overturn the election results after the insure rex happened is a very big sign of where they want this to go and they are fully embracing the republican party. >> they say this is more than just about leadership, right. a minority thought they may be, senator romney has given cheney back up. those conservatives saying purging liz cheney would diminish the republican party. what are you hearing about that part of the party? >> they're trying to stay as vocal as possible. they know this is a very difficult fight that they
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probably won't be able to win simply because as you mentioned those margins are just so small. it is a very small group of outspoken people. and you have seen an evolution of republicans during the trump presidency and before so being vocal against trump. but you have seen many and many more join in and now really advocate for pushing his policies. and embracing the voters that he was able to bring in to the party. and that is really the crux at issue here. what the republican house caucus is essentially saying is that cheney as conference leader, someone who is literally responsible for messaging and keeping the party united, is not necessarily trying to talk about the things, at least the path forward for the party. they say she is focusing on the past. well they really, at least what cheney and this small group of republicans are saying, is that
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we're not going to back down. we need to talk about the voters that trump also lost. yes, he may have brought in a new coalition, but he lost a number of republican voters. also what lead to the insurrection is a breaking point. and president trump is now even trying to bring up the election fraud issue again. >> one of the people you saw standing behind congresswoman cheney there is kevin mccarthy. that is an interesting development and situation there. on one hand the house republican leader went out and did an interview where he said he had some concerns or vaguely said that members were not sure about the messaging, and in this hot mic moment he went even further. here is what he said. >> i've had it with her. i've lost confidence. >> does mccarthy need to worry
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about navigating this any more or is in the writing on the wall now that he and steve scalise and others made their positions pretty clear? >> let's be clear, none of this would be happening if kevin mccarthy was not giving his blessing for this. the reason is is after the last few weeks yes there was grumbling about representative cheney among the rank and file, but what really brought this to a head was the fact that kevin mccarthy would not publicly defend her. he was visually separated from her. he would not appear -- >> absent. >> so this is happening with the blessing of leader mccarthy giving the rank and file the green light to go ahead and oppose her. >> i only have about ten seconds left, but you do have speaker pelosi's office seeming to be seizing on this putting out a mock help wanted add from the
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gop leadership, help wanted, non-threatening family. do the house democrats see an opportunity here? >> absolutely. they have been chiming in more so than past leadership fights that we have seen republicans have in the past. they're definitely trying as you see making this potentially an issue of sexism in the party and the fact that they want to replace the sole woman with another woman. and pointing out the fact that, of course, a lot of the members on leadership are white men, hallie? >> thanks to the both of you for that. we appreciate it. i know you're going to be very busy in the coming hours on that story. coming up, president biden announcing a new covid vaccine goal as pfizer looks at authorization to vaccinate children as young as 12. we'll have the latest on the race to vaccinate kids.
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all of it as the covid crisis in india gets worse. some houses will run out of oxygen in the next few hours. we're taking you live on the ground to new delhi. lawyers from derek chauvin are asking for a new trial. his defense saying a pretrial publicity affected the rights to a fair trial and saying the jury felt threatened during their deliberations. there is eight specific instances where the court "abused it's discretion." the attorney general says he will vigorously apose that motion. chauvin is waiting on his sentencing after the murder of george floyd. . murder of george floyd instead of burning our past for power, we can harness the energy of the tiny electron. we can create new ways to connect. rethinking how we communicate to be more inclusive than ever.
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so there is new news this morning about what kids should be doing at summer camps this summer. dr. anthony fauci is saying this about adults and kids two and up wearing masks outdoors. >> they are certainly conservative. it looks a little strict and stringent, but that's why they keep looking at that and trying to reevaluate in literally
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realtime whether or not that is the practical way to go. >> and three big new target dates to tell you about. one, president biden setting a goal of 70% of adults getting their first vaccine dose by july 4th. second, the fda now expected to approve the pfizer vaccine for 12 to 15-year-olds within the next week. possibly, even, into the next several days. and three, pfizer now expects to apply for emergency use in that age group in september. stephanie gosk. so steph, good morning to you. let me pick up with that new goal, talk about that 70% number, the significance of that. and what the administration is trying to do. >> the entire year we have been
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talking about heard immunity and there is disagreement on what that number is and what we have to try to reach. it almost might not matter. we have countries ahead of us, and they work as good guides. listen to what the cdc director had to say about this issue this morning. >> what we have seen in israel and the uk is as soon as vaccination numbers get to 60%, 70%, and 80% we'll see numbers come down dramatically. right now we have 56% of all adults having gotten at least one shot. president biden talking about going from 106 million to 160 million fully vaccinated. so how do you get there? we're very quickly coming to the
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point where people eager to get the vaccine will have already gotten it. and the white house says they're changing their strike that i did in part to make it just easier to get the vaccine. this will be shifting distribution of allotment, and pushing it towards states that need it and a focus from mass vccination sites to something er smaller like pharmacies. >> what do you think? >> look, you know, they also made a point that addressed kpakttly that issue saying the administration is working with multible different nonprofit organizations across the country
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as well as big national sporting teams. one person may want to meet their sport or something like this. they are thinking about having a different allocation to allow states to give back doses they dose need to states with a higher demand can use it. i think we will see a walk in, a into up and mobile clinics going into more rule area that's will facilitation up keep. >> they are learning more about the process. in the next few days to a week or so. what can you tell us about that new reporting. >> yeah, first you had dr. fauci
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saying it will come in the next several days. and this is the advisory committee on immunizations as part of the cdc and they have been working closely with the fda on how to roll out immunizations. they're going to be part of this process when it comes to children. they will also provide their guidance. that is an important step in this. they don't have to, but they are going to be part of this. we know that more than 25% of parents are hesitant to give their children a vaccine. so doing this in a way that makes them feel confident will be super important, hallie? >> and talk about a timely announcement. as we have been having this conversation, canada announced
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the emergency authorization for 12 to 15-year-olds up north. how big of a difference does that make, and how is the message to parents that feel a little nervous about getting their kids vaccinated. >> yeah, if we go back to that illusive number, if we stop focusing on that in particular, we talk about generally having a higher level of immunity. and kids a part of this equation. if we added kids into that immunity number we will get there faster. they can get sick and spread the disease. they can die, they get multisystem inflammatory system. i'm a parent that will sign up my kid right away understand it is approved.
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it's protecting their children and the community as a whole. >> thank you to both of you for that. we appreciate that look at what is happening in the pandemic here at home. we're also looking at what is happening overseas specifically in india. since we came on the air, 60 more people have died there. by the time we get off of the air, another 60 will have died adding to the reporting death toll of more than 226,000 people even though experts think the actual number of deaths is even higher than that. you have millions of more people fighting covid right now. nearly 3.5 million being treated for covid. not including mt. that can't even get care because hospitals are full. the nation crossing the 20 million infection mark. the covid crisis setting you have a new scare at the g7 meeting in london with two members of the delegation testing positive. joining us now, and you have
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been on the ground. you are there reporting every day. help us understand what it is like there. this is unlike anything that i have ever witnessed in my 15 years here and i covered some grim stories. i have been out and about at hospitals and crematoriums. and what we're looking at is patients running from hospital to hospital often with large oxygen cylinders in tow. they don't have space in the hospitals, doctors in the hospitals are overwhelmed and over worked. doctors now started telling
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patients to arrange for their own oxygen because they no longer have means to provide it. what we're going to witness in the next few weeks here is a shortage of medical workers as well. these shortages are not just limited to oxygen. there are oxygen plants here in new delhi, and outside of the plants are massive queues of relatives, of people suffering from covid, every morning they go to these plants with massive cylinders just to refill them. it is just so constant. it is so relentless, and it is extremely hard to describe. you're looking at images, of course, and as you mentioned the
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government's figures are almost certainly under represented. but what is absolutely clear to those of us on the ground is that this is india's worst crisis in modern history. certainly the worst since 1997. >> it is difficult to hear you talk about this. sometimes we experience maybe one specific story or one specific person that sticks with us and it tells the broader story. is there something that stuck with you in your reporting on the ground here in this crisis? that you keep coming back to or you keep thinking about that you could share with us? >> absolutely, i mean just a few days ago i met a gentleman at a crematorium who was going to light the fire of his son. and the situation at the crematoriums right now is there is absolutely no one to help families to build these fires.
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they have to do it themselves. and he was so careful about it. he examined the slabs so carefully. he took his time with it, and he looked around and just started sobbing and he asked if anyone would help him because he never lit a fire before in his life. just watching the pain of the parents who are, you know, burying their children or setting alight those fires, that is really difficult. also watching really young people outside of hospitals perishing not from covid-19, but from a lax of lack of oxygen, just really distressing scenes. >> it is incredibly difficult to look at. you're doing amazing work on the ground. thank you for sharing some of it with us. coming up weather conditions
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explosive new allegations from a federal judge against william barr. why she is ordering the justice department to release a secret memo. and what else she is saying. and now that facebook upheld their decision that oversight board upheld the decision to keep the former president bans from facebook. from facebook. ♪ birds flyin' high you know how i feel ♪ ♪ breeze drifting on by you know how i feel ♪ [man: coughing] ♪ it's a new dawn, it's a new day... ♪ no matter how you got copd it's time to make a stand. ♪ ...and i'm feelin' good ♪ start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function. it also helps prevent future flare-ups.
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it's not every day that a federal judge says a u.s. attorney general lied to her and congress, but that is the case today. it has to do with the russian investigation. back in march 2019 when the special council finished his investigation, then ag william barr came out saying president trump would not be charged with any crimes.
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barr said that was guided by an internal memo from d.o.j. lawyers. it has never been seen by the public but it might be soon. a government transparency group sued to get their handed on that secret memo and a judge now agrees. she says it should be released. that judge saying it appeared to fit into a pattern of the barr doj to miss lead or lie to congress and the public about the investigation. the justice department argued this memo was exempt from public records laws because it contained private avice from lawyers. pete, good morning to you, what else can you tell us here? >> this is all about the freedom of information act, you can ask for government documents under that law. but there are exceptions. one of them is advice or predecision on memoranda. that is why they release third degree to the group, and it
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applied for the freedom of information act. but judge jackson said i have seen the memo. it's written as a foregone conclusion that the justice department would not seek to prosecute the president for obstruction of justice and she includes in her opinion this handy guide to what the memo actually says, but it is redacted and this is the part that she says should be pub welcome along with the entire memo. she is basically saying the d.o.j. says we don't have to release this because it was advisory. she says i have seen it, there is no advice, it's strategic advice about how to communicate the fact that he will not be prosecuted, but it is written from the assumption that she will not be prosecuted. and those involved in drafting this were also involved in drafting the attorney general's four-page letter to congress. they have not said if they're going to appeal this.
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>> pete williams, live for us there. pete, thank you. new reaction now coming in from trump world, if you will, to the breaking news from the facebook oversight board. that president trump is still banned for now. here is mark meadows on that and what it means for mr. trump's political future? >> it is a sad day for america and facebook. rallies will happen very soon. the vast majority of americans want him to throw his hat back in the ring. if i had to place a bet on it i would say he will do exactly that based on my conversations with him. >> but, any potential political come back would depend on facebook's final decision. they have within six months to decide whether or not which he get back on again. even though twitter, which he is still banned from was really the former president's megaphone, facebook is how he raised a lot
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of money. let's go to peter alexander with more on this. what else are you hearing and what does this mean, do you think, for the former president's political future? >> in terms of what we're hearing is again this anger and frustration directed and big tech arguing that big tech has been specifically targeting conservatives. you heard that the former president that they want to see it broken up. they're saying their frustration with the private company is reason for the federal government to in some form punish them going forward. in terms of what this really means here as written by others, this is not so much about the mega phone as it may be about the money for him here. recognizing how much money he was taking in and spending on facebook in the 2020 campaign. president trump spent roughly 160 million on facebook ads that allowed him to micro target key supporters and also to cultivate
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grass root donor ads. he also raised a ton of money as well, raising $378 million, we know, in 2020. much of that came through outlets like facebook that may be the real issue here. if the president were able to run those adds again, had his suspension been lifted, it would have been a good way to block out other competition in the republican field perhaps for 2024 if that is something he chooses to pursue. also it would have been significant for the republican party because they align themselves with other republicans that would have benefitted as well, hallie. >> i have to tell you i was talking with a source familiar with the former president's thinking that seemed less optimistic than some pundants. also hearing that the social media platform that they keep hinting at, it comes after he
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put out what is basically a blog, right? not a new social media site, it's like a list of his press releases here. >> yeah, it is effectively a blog, right? here are my statements, you can read them in one turning back t the president. it doesn't have -- it doesn't serve the same purpose as twitter where you can have interaction with the audience. for the president, who was posting more statements just today, taking another swipe at liz cheney and whacks at mike pence and mitch mcconnell today, it's a way for him to throw chum into the water, as it were, for his base. for the near term, it appears that's what he is going to have to continue to do. >> peter alexander, would have loved to read your blog. thank you. coming up, a new push by local law enforcement to ramp up patrols down at the mexican border. gabe gutierrez is live in texas. hi, gabe.
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for the first time ever, new and current customers can trade in their old and damaged phones for up to $800 off our best 5g phones. my phone is old. very old. old, cracked, water damaged, doesn't matter. i'm ready for something new. now, trade up to the 5g network you deserve, with the 5g phone you want. because at verizon, the network is just the beginning. we are getting our first look at the biden administration's push to try to reunite migrant families separated at the border. the first of the families being brought back together overnight. it's part of their goal to reunite more than 1,000 families separated at the border under the previous administration. take a look at that emotional moment. watch this. >> there's no words to describe the happiness i'm feeling right now. >> happening right now, a new
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push by local law enforcement to ramp up patrols. federal resources are stretched too thin. joining us, gabe gutierrez. you went out with local law enforcement overnight to look at the ramp up. tell us about it. >> reporter: the biden administration says border patrol processing facilities are no longer as overcrowded. some law enforcement agencies here across this region say they are overwell ped. overnight, the frantic flow of migrants was relentless. we were there not with federal border patrol agents but with rangers from the texas department of public safety. this is what texas dps agents say they see more of every night. rafts full of women and children making the dangerous trek across the rio grande. they are having to patrol more of the area because federal resources are stretched so thin. do you consider what you see here a crisis? >> it is a crisis. you see how easy for the
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smugglers to raft them across. they have no fear of law enforcement because they drop them off, they go back to mexico, bring another group. >> reporter: in roma, texas, a traffic stop by state troopers led them to this stash house. authorities are starting to process these migrants. it's not clear how long they had been at this stash house. there are dozens of them, mostly young men, but a few women and children. since march, state officials say they have referred more than 28,000 migrants to the federal border patrol. they ceased more than 5,700 pounds of marijuana, 100 pounds of cocaine and more than a million dollars. the biden administration says it's seasonal and due to poor conditions in central america. not a change in border policy. recently, there's been a drop in the backlog of migrant children being processed at border patrol facilities. >> migration is a dynamic and evolving challenge.
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but the president has a plan and we're working on implementing it. >> reporter: the rafts keep coming. paula told us she paid a smuggler $8,000 to make the treacherous journey to the u.s. do you see this slowing down soon? >> at this moment, i don't see it slowing down. >> reporter: critics say this isn't their job, that state and local cops should not be enforcing federal immigration laws. we were with this group for several hours overnight. we couldn't help but notice there were virtually no federal agents there. they were swamped, hallie. >> gabe gutierrez, thank you very much for that reporting. turning to news back here in d.c. a new court filing made public reveals the u.s. attorney's office in manhattan wants a federal judge to appoint a special master or an outside expert to review the evidence seized from the home and office of rudy giuliani. it's part of the investigation
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into his business dealings in ukraine. it comes as we are learning new details about a july 2019 phone call giuliani had with ukraine's president urging him tomount a smear campaign against joe biden. andrea mitchell is live in kiev. he talked to a former aide to president zalenski. >> the former aide was in the room, listening to a speakerphone. he heard the entire call. i interviewed him yesterday. what he is saying is he heard this advisor to the president being pressed -- the president being pressed to smear joe
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biden, who was then a candidate running for president. he was running for the nomination. he was shocked by this. he said that this certainly undermined his feelings and other ukrainians about the u.s. as he was hearing him say over and over again, you have to investigate biden, you have to publicize a smear campaign against biden running for president. this happened three days before what president trump called his perfect phone call with the president of ukraine, a call that was the focus of trump's first impeachment. now it's giuliani being investigated for efforts to remove the u.s. ambassador. have any u.s. investigators now looking into giuliani approached you? have you talked to anyone from the u.s. about it? >> they haven't. my theory goes as follows. basically, they are focusing at the moment on the events that happened in february and march and april of 2019.
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pretty much, a month before the president was inaugurated. with rudy giuliani, there are three more distinct episodes i have a strong suspicion might be looked at. i expect to be contacted in due course. >> nbc has reached out to giuliani's lawyer, but no response. secretary of state blinken is on route here to signal u.s. support for ukraine against vladimir putin. hallie? >> andrea mitchell live in kiev. we will see you at noon eastern, about an hour from now here on msnbc for your show. that does it for our show. a busy hour of "hallie jackson reports." more coverage picking up right now with craig melvin. a good wednesday morning. craig melvin here. we are following a lot of fast moving stories this morning, including some big breaking news in the tech world. blocked, former president trump will not be

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