good evening, everyone. we begin with "the reidout" with a party in moral crisis. not just in washington. let's take a gander, shall we? at the republican party in idaho. yes, idaho. for a glimpse of just how corrupt and rotten this party is. last month republican state representative aaron von ehlinger was accused of what he called unconsented sexual contact with an adult volunteer on his staff. what that actually means is that he was accused of rape by a 19-year-old intern which he denies. but here's how the idaho statesman described the intern's allegation. quote, he took her to dinner and then his apartment. she told the assistant sergeant

at arms that he orally penetrated her despite her having said no. according to the written statement provided to police, she said she was afraid to be around him and noted that he has a gun. the idaho house ethics committee voted unanimously last week that representative von ehlinger voted on conduct unbecoming but he was out the same day before they could kick him out. local police are still investigating the investigation. this is horrific but surprisingly or perhaps not, given the state of the once grand old party, it gets worse. almost as soon as the woman's allegation became public, some of the lawmaker's republican colleagues and right wing groups went after the woman, the 19-year-old woman. one republican lawmaker shared her name and her photo with a news letter to constituents. another tried to get a copy of the police report. and after she testified at the house ethics committee about her

experience, members of a right wing group followed and harassed her. because the republican party doesn't fundamentally care about this victim, this young woman. just as they seem completely indifferent to the 17-year-old girl representative matt gaetz is accused of allegedly sexually trafficking. there have been no penalties and today guess to go as they stuff their heads in the sand over the former president's lies, and that he himself faced more than two dozen allegations of sexual miscouldn't duct, harassment, plus an ongoing allegation of alleged rape. instead, they've chosen to just elevate his particular brand of mysogyny into the very ethos of the party, elevating characters like the aforementioned matt gaetz or eric greitens who resigned over allegations of an affair that included him trying to blackmail the woman with nude photos. he is now running for united states senate seat.

now, they do, however, care when women speak the uncomfortable truth like liz cheney who they're now trying to excommunicate from the party arrest house republican leader kevin mccarthy threw her under the bus yesterday. his number two, the man who reportedly called himself david duke without the baggage, publicly backed the new york congresswoman elise stefaneck to take over the position. his success in the modern gop requires to you bend the knee to orange julius cesar, period. of course he is also backing stephaneck. the business of leading republicans now at this point is unabashedly supporting his lies about the election and that's it. she tweeted, thank you, president trump, for your 100% support. meanwhile actual president joe biden weigh in the on the gop's treatment of cheney. >> it seems as though the

republican party is trying to identify what it stands for. and they're in the midst of significant sort of mini revolution. >> now let me do something that i wouldn't normally do. since the republican party is throwing women like liz cheney under the bus, listen to another os tensebly core woman meg hab mccain sum up the state of the gop. >> i'm going to be a little crass. they're [ bleep ]ing her for saying the election was not stolen and for refusing to debase herself to cheeto jesus. the message being said by the highest member of republicans in congress is that women like me and liz cheney who refuse to bend the knee to president trump but still remain loyal republicans, we don't have a place in this party. we are worthless. >> joining me now, the political strategist and host of the podcast, on one with angela ryan.

the political commentator and a former lincoln project adviser. angela, it strikes me that it wasn't that long ago that meghan mccain was making lots of excuses for why it was completely worth while to bend the knee to trump. because judges, judges, judges. even she has found her breaking point. what do you make of the descent into the party to embrace judge roy moore, these kinds of people whose crimes, alleged crimes, are against women and girls. >> it was so fascinating to me, what it takes for folks to reach a breaking point. it wasn't trump's initial descent down the escalator when he announced that he was running for president, when he called mexican people drug dealers and rapists. wasn't when he called for the beating and then the support of the person who assaulted a black man at a north carolina rally, right? it was that he would pay for

this man's bail. wasn't, all the times where he has called lawmakers, out their names, ill handle omar, congresswoman maxine waters, matt hill, who he has turned and unleashed his maga mob against to ensure that they would not be able to dwell safely in their homes, in their communities, and experience death threats. wasn't any of that. and i hate to bring it up but i can't get past my drama joy. wasn't even january 6th for meghan or so many republican who's were die hard. they would do it for the judges. they would take one for the team. they would allow him to build that wall or call covid a hoax. hundreds of thousands of lives later, here we are and the breaking point is liz cheney. i don't know what it will take for this party to find its moral compass but i think it is

incumbent on human an, in a bipartisan and even nonpart sandal way to tap into what is moral, true, just. that is the path forward here. and i think whether we're talking about donald trump's standards or matt gaetz, we have a problem here. houston, we have a problem. you need to tap in. >> 100%. and you are somebody who had a. earlier breaking point along the things that angela mentioned. they separated children from their parents, infants from moms who were still breast feeding. let me move quickly to you. this was liz cheney's op ed this morning saying history is watching, we must be brave enough to defend the basic principles. they are now turning her over for someone named miss stefaneck. she went to harvard. she graduated in 2006.

she got kicked out of the institute of politics just this year because she, the harvard educated, norm core republican, decided she was cool with overturning an election using a violent siege on the capitol. last item, here's george w. bush who was in the same wing with the party i just mentioned. and here she is talking about the party. >> you can only say a republican if, the ultimate extension is it ends up being a one-person party. >> but there are more of those people today than there were during the republican party. >> i hope not. >> either that or they're louder. they were talking about starting a caucus. >> well, it's, it, to me, that's, it basically says we want to be extinct. >> is it current in your mind that we'll have part of the party that is more neo con.

more about the, they're pro democracy but also pro invading iraq. that little wing of the party. the neo connells will be one party and the rest will be the trump people. >> i think what is really concerning, and we'll see this come down to a very public vote very soon about liz cheney. the majority of people in this party, and their elected leadership is siding with the anti-democratic forces within the republican party. it's not that it is just a segment of the party. it is now becoming the entire party. i don't think there are enough people willing to stand up to this iteration of the republican party to build another party at this point. for all the conversation about liz cheney or mitt romney, they're the outliers. it is really something hearing those comments from george w. bush. i've been thinking to myself this whole time, al qaeda, osama bin laden, the taliban, the

people who wanted to do harm to our nation and our way of life and democracy, they got nothing on what this republican party is doing. the idea that a member of their party, of their leadership whose last name is cheney, could be purged from their leadership for telling the truth about january 6th. for telling the truth about a violent insurrection that claimed the lives of a capitol police officer. the fact that they, people like cheney won't support the great lie that this election was rigged, or there was voter fraud. the anti-democratic forces are hijacking this party, purging one of the members who won't abide by the party line. that is so detrimental and dangerous. we are a two-party system. that's how it was built for better or worse. when one of the two parties becomes this radicalized and the core of the party's ideology is anti-democratic, that's a very dangerous development going on. that will result in more violence, in more attempts to

overthough our government. that will resort in people losing lives, just like january 6th. >> you know, angela, it feels like we are at a much more dangerous point. you see it merging into a white interest party. if they don't get their way, they're willing to commit violence to overturn an election because they don't believe people of color should even have access to voting booths, right? i wonder how much danger you feel we're in. there is still a chance, they control a lot of legislatures. they will control redistricting. they can still get power back. i wonder how much danger you feel that places the rest of us in. >> a lot of danger and we can start with where we started two years after barack obama was elected, right, we're right back at voter suppression, right back at voter i.d. legislation. now, criminalizing people who would bring water to voters. when you have to compromise the

very principles that you claim this democracy was founded upon so you can desperately cling on to power, we're in trouble. when you could turn a blind eye to a white supremacist and elect him, that's when you know we're in trouble. when you can support not just a violent insurrection but one against police officers, law enforcement, where they were yelling, blue lives matter unless it is a white maga supporter taking them on, trying to take their lives. or perhaps they're law enforcement, too. but also maga supporters which we saw at the capitol. so whether we're talking about voter suppression or police violence in the justification they're in. whether we're talking about how they win elections, the way they will rig them when it is convenient through every districting process that is overwhelmingly throughout the country dominated by the republican party. we left justice. so notices wonder as my good brother charlemagne said today, you don't want to remember it as

a starting point. that you would go to a 1776 starting point. revision. i history has always been toxic and deadly and the fact they would lean is that that after the clear year we had in 2020 shows all we need to know. >> i love that nicole hanna jones read us the personal 1619 history of mitch mcconnell. so maybe it is a little more personal for him than maybe he wants to get into. thank you very much. still ahead on the "reidout," a stunning rebuke from a former judge on william barr's habuling of the mueller probe. plus, the big progressive plans. and a perennial favorite is in the running again tonight. maybe more of an absolute

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remember the former special counsel robert mueller? after nearly two years of investigation, he laid out ten different ways that then president donald trump's actions represented obstruction of justice. ten examples of textbook obstruction could be prosecuted once trump left office. before that report could see the light of day, william barr intervened, declaring there's nothing to see here. movie testified developed by the special counsel isn't sufficient to establish the president committed an obstruction of justice offense. >> that's right. despite the overwhelming evidence that trump had obstructed evidence, he was never held accountable thanks to barr. she has order the release of the

a secret internal memo created to justify the decision. in her scathing opinion, judge amy berman jackson suggested barr didn't think twice about letting trump off the hook. that it was foor gone conclusion. quote, the fact that he would not be prosecuted was a given, she writes. in fact, barr began with that conclusion and then had his staff prepare a legal memo to back him up after the fact. as judge jackson writes, that memo would support the assessment that he had already decided. that's the exact reverse of what is supposed to happen when deciding a case. barr's apparent deception appeals two, one for the power chfl could hold a president above the law if he has the right friends and employees, and one for everyone else. joining me now, andrew weissman, from the mueller probe and former fbi general counsel. andrew, i read the mueller probe. it took me a while. i'm a slow reader but i did read it. there was a line that did stand out to me. there was a lot that was memorable.

this stood out. if we had confidence that the president clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. however, we are unable to reach that judgment. judge jackson also highlighted that portion in what she did in her ruling today. i have had this question before but i may have asked you this question before. do you looking back on it think that maybe the mueller report should have been more definitive? that yes, indeed, there was obstruction? you all sure did prove there was obstruction. >> see, that's an important question. i've written a book where i actually thought that we should have been definitive on that. and you know, robert mueller's decision on that came from a very noble place where he was saying, that should really be left to congress in deciding whether there should be an impeachment or to future prosecutors, because he was

bound by the department of justice rules, that he could not prosecute a sit go president. what he did not anticipate was the perfidy of the attorney general. no one anticipated that the attorney general would take the report and you know, judge jackson was i think somewhat, it was a scathing decision but basically she said, he lied about what we found. and one of the things you just mentioned, joy, it took you a long time to read. she pointed out that attorney general barr didn't have time to read or even skim the report before he made his conclusion. and then had a memo to back it up. the other thing that was interesting about her decision is she said, not only is this further proof that attorney general barr's misconduct, but she took task the trump administration for misrepresenting the facts to

her. she said the lawyers before her completely misstated what she insisted on seeing. and only because she insisted on seeing the actual memorandum did this come to light. so we're all waiting to see what that reveals. and i think just a final point to your point is, what is the big takeaway from this? which is, will something happen to bill barr? will something happen to the attorneys who the judge has found made disingenuous statements in order to prevail in this case? and ultimately, will something happen to the former president where, you know, for me, it is very important that something happen. because you can't really have a system where the president is supposed to be not above the law, and then not do anything about evidence which suggests strongly that he violated the law. >> and i think that's the

problem. i can remember people being very uncomfortable that i was on saying this feels like cover-up is coming and this was only just talking with people who knew bill barr well. he was at one point called the cover-up general. not by a liberal but by william sapphire. he wrote a memo in which he pitched himself saying, look, i absolve you. you haven't done anything wrong. he went in seeming corruptish and then he behaved corruptly. so donald trump being prosecuted. sure. he should be prosecuted. what sanctions are there for barr? he is rich. he could easily retire with all his money. will he ever have to face up to what he did? >> well, one thing that will be interesting, we have a federal judge who is strongly reacting to a document we have not seen yet. she is saying that this is further additional strong proof of his being disingenuous.

let's wait and see but one thing that could happen to him, no pun intend, he could have bar consequences. he could be disbarred and there could be proceedings. in regard. and he is an enabler of the former president. and to me that is really where we need to keep the eye on the ball. there are lots of questions here about whether we in the special counsel did our job as well as we could about what attorney general barr did. all of those are legitimate things to question. keeping your eye on the prize, should a president be above the law? and if we say, you know what? you can't indict a president while he's in office, then you really can't say once he's out of office, let's just move on. >> yeah, yeah. absolutely. i totally agree with you on that. thank you for being here this evening. with me now, val demings, an

impeachment manager in the first impeachment. i first knew you as a law enforcement official in florida. you and i both know that people like us, people who look like you and me do not get this gentleman's agreement. that it is bad form to prosecute them for one reason or another. powerful people get that. they get a break. you've now seen the president of the united states, who you know was guilty. you prosecuted him. it turns out there was collusion. tada! manafort really did share information. turns out there was obstruction. tada! bill barr lied about it. i wonder how it sits with you as a former law enforcement officer who you know, people who commit crimes, regular folks, get locked the hell up. >> it's great to be. but you're absolutely correct. i said it during the impeachment trial. i said it during my law enforcement career. that no one is above the law up to and including the president

of the united states. we do know that the mueller report concluded that the collusion, the obstruction from the president and his enablers was sweeping and systematic. we started the mueller investigation out. i had the utmost confidence in mueller and his team. i had little confidence in william barr but that suddenly went to zero when he stepped on the stage day of the press conference and gave a summary of the mueller report, basically saying, there was nothing to see there. i thought that was odd. now we all know that was not odd. that was just a plain lie about the alternative facts, i guess you could say. that mueller, now judge who is reviewing this, is now calling him out and talking about a pattern, a pattern of dishonest behavior from the person who was

attorney general, william barr. >> it goes on and on. it feels like there is a powerful of cadre men of low character who ran amok in this country for four years and nothing will ever be done to them. trump on down. let me play this. andrea mitchell, my great colleague here, interviewed the guy, he was actually listening on a call with the former u.s. attorney rudy giuliani who is donald trump's lawyer at the time. take listen. >> it was all about a smear campaign on then candidate biden, joe biden. so the first request was multiple investigations. so he wanted to investigate. he wanted the situation with general shokin. he was especially interested in getting ukraine to make a public statement and possibly back it

up, this crazy allegation, that it was ukraine in 2016 which is ridiculous but that's what he wanted. >> having been an impeachment manager, do you believe just looking at this now from 30 feet, 30,000 feet up, that anyone that was involved in the crimes that you prosecuted as an impeachment manager will ever pay for them including rudy giuliani who was involved in his own way? >> as you said in the beginning, if it was you or me or your ordinary john or mary, they would be prosecuted. if we are who we say we are in this country, if we really all do believe that no one is above the law, then they should, they must, i agree with your former guest. they must be prosecuted. we can't simply say, well, he can't be prosecuted simply because he's the sitting president, although he engaged clearly in ten incidences of

obstruction. then when he's out of office, say nothing to see here. >> i am out of time. but i can't let you get off this show. you tweeted out a great video from when you first ran for congress. it seemed to me that you want to tell us something. you're here on the show. would you like to make an announcement about your future in the state of florida? are you running statewide and for which office? >> what i will tell you. i am seriously considering a state run. one thing for sure, we need leaders to represent all floridians, winn leaders who don't pick winners and losers based on your ability to pay to play. so we are continuing to figure it out. we're talking to a lot of different people. hearing from a lot of different people. i'm excited about the future. i would just invite your viewers to go to val demings.com to learn more about me. >> jonathan cainhart and i are like, who will get to you make

the announcement? come back if you want to make the announcement. jonathan, don't listen. i want her to come back and announce it here. we really appreciate you very much. up next, there are so many things that i want to talk with senator elizabeth warren about. let's not waste a second. we'll take a real quick break and then we'll get it rolling. we'll be right back. t rolling. we'll be right back. idolizing them. mimicking their every move. and if she counts on the advanced hydration of pedialyte when it matters most... ...so do we. hydrate like our heroes. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

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administration, president biden has unveiled an agenda that polls show is popular. a child tax credit that would slash child poverty and put a floor under millions of families. just last month president biden unveiled a plan that would invest in american families by offering free universal preschool, free community college, child care support and paid leave. the spending would be offset by increasing taxes on corporations and the mega rich. >> we won't deprive an executive of their second or third home, travel privately by jet. it won't affect their standing at all. not a little tiny bit. but it could affect the standard of living of people i grew up with. >> according to the poll

neergsly 60%, roughly three out of five voters support the plan. in new book persist, elizabeth warren argues that the pandemic has afforded us a rare opportunity. she writes the door to change opens just a crack. what had been impossible becomes hard but maybe possible. that's the most to fight with everything you've got. which is what democrats are going to have to do to get past the grim reaper of legislation, mitch mcconnell. >> 100% of my focus is on standing up to this administration. what we have in the united states senate is totally from susan collins to ted cruz, an opposition to what the new biden administration is trying to do to this country. >> senator warren warren joins me. her new book is called persist. thank you for being here. i have to say that for a lot of voters, including some of the voters in my own households who are young folks.

they wanted elizabeth warren. they got joe biden and they still got elizabeth warren terms policies. have you been surprised how much like your policies, biden's policies are? >> you know, i think of it this way. look at all the that has happened in the last year. you talk about the pandemic, a racial reckoning and an armed insurrection. and we got a new president. we passed an historic rescue plan. that means the opportunity is there. the opportunity for change. most of the time, you know this, the doors are locked tight but not at this moment. what i talk about in the book is the personal stories. why policy is so personal. how it touches -- i talk about childcare from the point of view of a llama who couldn't get and it nearly couldn't finish her

education, nearly lost her first job. i walk the being a teacher and a planner and a fighter and a learner and a woman. and in doing that, i talk about my own passion for children, but i hope it is bringing in a lot of people including a lot of people in your household. >> it's interesting. i was lucky enough to do the headliners for you for nbc. i learned a lot about you. i learned this is a lady from massachusetts. no. this is a lady from oklahoma. you come from a very working class background, the stories about your mom are very much a part of who you are as a politician. and childcare, being someone who had to pay for childcare and barely afforded it and really needed it, for my husband and i to make things work. i am stunned at how very wealthy people are attacking the ideas on childcare.

one particular rich guy, yale law school grad, west selling books and movies. lots of money. he was not born rich but he is rich now. here he is talking about childcare. >> they want strangers to raise their kids. middle class americans, whatever their station in life, they want more time with their children even if they're working. they want the tim to spent more time with their kids and not be forced to send them to daycare. so what this policy really represents is an effort to sublgs dies the preference of our ruling class over the preference of our middle and working classes. >> want strangers to raise their kids. your thoughts. >> first, i have to start with, i'm just not sure what planet this guy landed from. he has clearly never been a mother who is trying to finish her education, or trying to get that first job, or trying to go for the promotion. and is struggling between everything else you've got to

do. trying to find childcare. look, i talk about this in the book. i tell the stories about what it was like, how i had my dream job. i was this special education teacher. and then i got fired when i got pregnant. so here i am at home with a baby. i get this crazy idea that i will go to law school. and you know me. i make a list for everything i've got to do, the tuition, how i'll pay for it, even down to the mileage on the car so i know what my budget. is i can do this. do you know the part that nearly broke my back? childcare. childcare. every place i looked. either the place was five towns over or it cost way too much or it had a waiting list that was years long. childcare is not there. i came within days of not being able to go back to school because i couldn't find anyone to help me with a not yet 2-year-old. i was almost knocked off the

track. and then it happened again. when i got my first full time teaching job afterwards. and here's the thing. we talk about infrastructure. we talk about roads, bridges. why do we invest in those instead of someone's preference to ride on them. no. we talk about infrastructure so people can get to work. so that businesses can get their goods to market. you want people to go to work? then invest in childcare. invest if early childhood education. so that all of our mamas and daddies and all of our babies have real opportunity in this country. >> you know what? when i hear you talk about this, versus when i hear someone like j.d. vance who wants to be a senator and has hedge fund billionaires backing him, i don't know how they've forgotten what normal life is lying. most americans agree with what you're saying and they're living a normal life and having these struggles.

how do we get past that republicans have said we'll stand in blanket only significance to getting people what they need and what they're all saying. >> here's the part to remember. and that is, who is out of step here? when we talk about childcare, it is democrats, republicans, independents, all of us need childcare. when we talk about canceling student loan debt. it is democrats, republicans, independent debt burden eliminated. when we talk about raising taxes on the wealthy, it is democrats, republicans and independents who support a wealth tax in america. do you know who is out of step? the elected republican officials in washington. >> yeah. >> so how do we change that?

it is the inside outside game west do what we can the democrats in the senate and we get a real wind in our sails from the outside. a talk and persist about getting in this fight. because it is personal. >> first, i love the name of the book. of course you had to call it persist. that's one of the things, that moment when you had to face down republicans who wouldn't let you read dr. king's widow's words. it is a strange thing. i want to ask you one thing, speaking of words and communication, i have to ask you this. we have seen now facebook get back in the news. we'll speak about this with someone in another block. i'm curious what you think about their power. they had more power to stop the threat of donald trump than the federal government did. than the fbi did. than anyone did. they were the only ones who have been able to stop the threat of him. what do you make of that? >> so, you asked the question

the right way. look. i am really glad that i don't have to get up every morning and wonder what donald trump has tweeted when most people were asleep. but that's not the issue here. the issue is that we now have this corporation that is so giant, that is so powerful, it even names its review board, the supreme court. are you kidding me? these are not folks who are somehow confirmed by congress. these are not people who were elected by the public. these are not people who you even know what their names are. this means we have a corporation more powerful than government. and there are two things. first we need to break up corporations west need on break them up so we go get more competition in business and we need to break them up because

they exercise too much political power. then part two. we need to actually put in some government regulations that protect us. government regulations that really go to the question of making sure that we have an opportunity in this country to have a democracy that functions, and that we can actually hear the truth for people. >> you know, i can't wait now to dig into this book. it is called "persist." senator elizabeth warren, you tell so many great stories. you're such a great story teller that i think readers will get a lot out of your book. thank you for taking some time to speak with us this evening. >> thank you. be sure to read it. because you're in it. >> okay. now, whenever we can see people again and i'm vaccinated, i'll see you again. have a great evening. now as rick wilson once said. you either hate him or you hate him. but at this moment, i almost

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i'll tell you what i really think of donald trump. this man is a pathological liar. >> he's a jack ass. a race baiting xenophobic religious bigot. >> donald trump is a conartist. >> you know what they say about men with small hands -- you can't trust them. you can't trust them. you can't trust them. >> ew! remember the 2016 primary? when florida man's republican opponents at least pretended they had principles? well, that obviously changed once he got elected. but now even though he's out of office and puttering around mar-a-lago, grabbing every available mic and not even pretending to support the cancellation of diet coke, there

is a beautiful love fest between the republican, and their dear leader. >> you get an all expense paid trim to play golf with president trump and lindsey graham and we'll have ahell of a time enjoying president trump's company. >> a lot of positive things today. very productive time and good working relationship. president trump is the most influential republican in america. he will still be there in 2022 and 2024. >> there are a lot of voices in washington that want to just erase the last four years. they look at donald j. trump and they look at the millions and millions of people inspired who went to battle fighting alongside president trump. and they are terrified. and they want him to go away. let me tell you this right now. donald j. trump ain't going anywhere.

>> it's the arms of angel music for me and those degrading displays of affection. lindsey graham, marco rubio and ted cruz who i'm sure trump hates, because everybody does, are tonight's absolute worst. nd. and if you're looking for...

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the board has found that the suspension of former president trump was necessary to keep people safe and that the actions of the former president encouraged and legitimatized violence and constituted what the board has termed a severe violation of the facebook rules. >> it looks like you won't be able to return to our facebook news feed any time soon. joining me is kate klonick.

thanks for being here. i thought to myself, it's too little too late. maybe it's into the too little but it's too late. what do you make of the decision and the fact that it only happened after the violence trump had been whipping up for over maybe four years even finally happened? >> that's a great point. i think that there is a sense this was too little too late. it is the start of something much broader. it's the start of basically a period that we have been building towards for the last couple of years, particularly facebook, that is going to start holding these companies accountable through quasi public and private boards. this is really a moment of tremendous accountability generally for facebook. i would look at it in that sense and not maybe the narrower sense of what happened with trump and his followers in january.

>> i did speak with senator warren a short time ago. she agreed that it is striking that a private company like facebook -- you sign up and you agree to the rules of how you use their platform. you break the rules, you can be banned. this is not a first amendment issue. it's striking a private company were the only ones who had the power to stop the thread of donald trump. not the fbi, security agencies who we pay tax money do. are they more powerful than the government? isn't that a problem? >> my gosh, they are absolutely more -- i have committed my entire agenda to this idea that, yes, these are tremendously powerful companies that are more powerful than any government. you cannot have one government shut down facebook. it's a trans-national private corporation. it's bigger than any one country can control. that is actually why this is so

important today. i think that a lot of the remedies that are being bandied are are not incorrect but they are a little outdated. they speak to a time and place when these types of trans-national private corporations didn't have this type of unbreakable power over public rights. you have two choices. you can try to break them up. i'm not necessarily against that solution. or you can try to regulate them, had is harder and more narrow. you can try to democratize them and hold them accountable from the public rights they manage and govern on through a new type of accountability, a new system. >> it's hard. they are not just big corporations. they are invasive that are tracking you, figuring out what you like, what you won't like. we won't let trump get at you. they had qanon littering facebook. without facebook, you might not

have known about some of the police killings. we in the media used to have to rely on the police. it's very -- it's a complicated issue. they do seem to be particularly innovative. do you see any change in that any time soon? >> no, i don't. i think they are here to stay. they will be invasive. best thing we can do is keep putting the screws to them and holding them responsible for the decisions they make or refuse to make. that's what this was today. i don't think it blocks the way for future regulation. we are throwing at this problem. this is the kitchen sink. >> do you think -- this is a board of 20 people. they are going to reassess in six months. when they reassess, is this guy getting on? >> i think possibly. you will have a hard time making a case under international human rights law and the ideas of proportionality that a permanent ban is okay. there might be some type of rule

that facebook comes up with or a system of rules that give them -- that they will give them the power to do this. the board might say it's okay. it's possible. >> for those people who dropped facebook, if you are on instagram, you are on facebook. thank you very much for being here. appreciate you. that's tonight. tonight on "all in" -- >> president trump is the leader of the republican party. when she's out there attacking him, she's attacking the leader of the republican party. >> the republican push to purge the truth breaks into the open. the maga cult grows. cheney pushes back and the president weighs in. >> we badly need a republican party. rudy giuliani asked for trump money as prosecutors seek a special master. the surprise announcement trt bide