for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn? if it's thursday, as republicans move to oust her from leadership, liz cheney warns her colleagues the party is going to bankrupt democracy and ruin their party. and history is watching. the cdc predicts a sharp decline in covid cases as the focus begins to shift from the success of the rollout of the vaccine at home to the massive challenge of getting vaccines to the world. and pentagon leadership is about to brief reporters for the first time since the president's announcement that the u.s. is withdrawing troops from afghanistan, and as the military considered changing how it addresses allegations of sexual assault.

welcome to thursday. it is "meet the press daily" and i'm chuck todd. none of this we say lightly. today appears to be the day you can mark in your calendars as the day that represents the republican party's complete and total surrender to donald trump. whether it's the paesht's revolt against liz cheney in washington or new voting restrictions they're celebrating in florida and texas or bizarre audit that's playing out of presidential results in the state of arizona, the republican party surrendered to a lie, as it surrenders to trump. let's not mince words, it means the american democracy is in really big trouble, more so today than it was yesterday. the number three house republican lists cheney as the number three republican being ousted from leadership for the sin of speaking out against her party's embrace of the former president's outlie lie that somehow the election was stolen

from him. and it's not just why she's being ousted that's so alarming, there's also the way the mob rule republicans are absurdly rationalizing it. they claim cheney is out of step with the party, that she's stuck in the past, that she won't stop talking about the 2020 election results. as if she's the one looking for bamboo fibers in arizona. it's pretty clear what they really mean is she's out of step with the party's embrace of trump's lies about those election results, that's it, which he and many in the party won't stop talking about. it's not liz cheney that keeps bringing it up, it's donald j. trump. in fact, he's already put out two statements today that reinforce these lies that he's trying to get people to believe, that he's trying to bully the party into accepting, including a very detailed statement explicitly reiterating this

belief in a documented, proven lie. this morning in a hotel ballroom not far from mar-a-lago, florida governor ron desantis made a "fox & friends" skeptical out of signing new restrictions in a state that had no reasons to do this other than donald trump desired it. pushing ballot restrictions that are based again on these myths perpetrated by trump on the issue of supposed voter fraud. add it all up and it's pretty clear what's left of the conservative movement that was once based on principles and democracy has been completely snuffed out, and liz cheney, it felt like she was the last flickering light among the elected republican leadership, and today the light's been snuffed out. trump co-opted conservatism and now like he did with casinos,

hotels, golf courses, anything he's really touched in his life, he's about to bankrupt that too. as liz cheney warns her party in a "washington post" op-ed -- i'm a conservative republican and most conservative of conservative values is the reverence for the rule of law. the electoral college has spoken. more than 60 state federal courts, including multiple trump-appointed judges, have rejected the former president's arguments. history is watching. our children are watching. we must brave enough to defend the basic principles that underpin and protect our freedom and democratic process. time and again we've seen elected republicans find ways, however bizarre, to defend trump and ultimately at this moment, our democracy is in danger as elected republicans keep choosing to show their fuelty to somebody trying to undermine them. we want to believe republicans in washington at least in reality know better. i still say that.

but i will say this, if they do, they need to realize their silence right now is helping to marginalize the entire republican party from the mainstream of american life, and maybe these folks will comfort themselves by muting the mainstream and only listening to their echo chamber, but that doesn't change the reality that they are all in on trump's crusade against the foundations of our democracy. they're marching right along, la, la, la, la, la. it looks increasingly dire now, as this ends with the gop imploding, or worse, the country. we will talk with a couple former members of the house republican conference in a minute. let start on capitol hill. my nbc news colleague, and one of the reporters barred from the bill signing spectacle governor desantis made this morning. let's start with what's happening this morning on the

hill, sahil. we know liz cheney has decided to stop whipping for votes. it does not mean she's surrendering her position but it means she -- i won't make any weird promises, you have to decide, you either want a liar in this position or you don't. >> that's right, chuck. it increasingly seems like a fate acomely that liz cheney will be removed from the house leadership position. but if she's determined to expose the fact she's being ousted for simply telling the truth about the 2020 election, she wrote the scathing "the washington post" op-ed yesterday talking about our children watching and history watching. and mccarthy said the siege at the capitol, that donald trump bears some responsibility for what happened, and she accuses him of turning the tale on this.

and if she's going down, she's going down swinging. she is trying to make clear she stood on the side of truth and acknowledgment of legitimate election, and her colleagues are going in the opposite direct out of loyalty to donald trump. >> sahil, what about the silent -- like i said, i think we all want to believe there's a plurality of elected republicans in washington who think this is crazy, who think trump is being -- what he's going is wrong, but they don't have the guts to say anything. do they understand that by saying nothing, that in some ways the insurrectionists have won? >> i mean, it's kind of a free rider problem. nobody wants to get caught in the cross fire. very few want to stand up and speak out about this. so they're kind of being quiet. but the real reason is, think about it, the 2017 tax law,

stefanik voted for that, liz cheney against that, but yet stefanik is seeing as someone who can carry the message of the party that cheney is not. that tells you everything you need to know about turning away from this conservative policy to a position where loyalty to president trump is a defining litmus test. this is a shift that's been months, if not years, in the making. yes, it might have been the most bipartisan impeachment in history but the vast majority of republicans decided to acquit trump and that emboldened him with republican lawmakers who are standing by him. and they're essentially following what their voters want here and not trying to get in the way, chuck. >> that's how they're rationalizing this saying, hey, i have to represent my voters at home? that is the last line of rationalization they're coming

up with >> >> that's exactly right. i think the polls show this. it's not difficult to see president trump remains very popular among republican voters and the intensity is key here, intensity of the popularity, intensity is something that leads them to demand their own lawmakers and elected representatives also maintain that loyalty. that's a puzzle many trump skeptical republicans here on capitol hill have not found away around. people like jeff flake and bob corker have left to be silent about this and the small minorities like liz cheney who are speaking out about it, speaking more to the history books, more than boosting her personal fortunes, which this certainly does not do for her. >> when i grew up, we called it the florida sun sentinel, when i was in florida, ft. lauderdale

sun sentinel. but walk me through about the lie leading to action. the florida legislature decided to take action because of a lie. what was changed here and what was the motivator for the change? >> sure. chuck, because of the pandemic florida instituted a really aggressive vote-by-mail system with drop boxes as early voting sites. many more democrats voted by mail than republicans does. and it was still a big republican year down here. i mean, trump won florida easily. but republicans aren't satisfied and they're changing the law to curtail the use of dropboxes. you can't give somebody a bottle of water while they're waiting outside a condominium in 97-degree heat. they're going to fine election supervisors $25,000 if they drop boxes even briefly unattended.

and there's also almost no evidence of fraud. the one case of fraud that got so much coverage down here that everybody knows involves a republican, a republican former senator from miami named frank ar tilly. so the ink wasn't even dry on the bill signing and women league of voters went into federal court and are suing to strike this law down. >> so, frank, this feels this was gree gaffically targeted? the population centers are the ones that needed dropboxes, the population centers were waiting in long lines, maybe in need of water, and it just so happens they're a democratic stronghold. but i assume none of this impacted the republican strongholds, right, because their voters are more spread out? >> it doesn't affect them as much. it is a fact, you're right, chuck, about florida politics. a democratic candidate here has to roll up huge majorities in eight to ten really big urban

counties, including the big three in south florida, including where i am right now, palm beach county. so this is going to disproportionately impact urban areas and league of women voters in others say it's going to impact black and brown voters. they voted, as did young voters, used the vote-by-mail system like they never used it before. so there's going to be a big fight in court over this bill. you know, it's a funny thing too, this provides a -- democrats are in tough shape in florida. they've been losing a lot of elections, a lot of close elections. they want to turn it around. this provides a rallying cry, this vote suppression message you're going to hear a tremendous amount about down here. >> quickly, you couldn't cover the governor's bill signing today. that seemed bizarre. it was given as an exclusive to a cable channel. have you ever run into that before? >> no. i've covered six governors in

florida. an occasional private bill signing is held because the governor doesn't want to draw undue attention to a matter of controversy but to have this, this was bizarre and completely uncalled for. the media locked out of what was really a republican political rally, where desantis signed this bill. the bill signing people know as a ceremonial thing but here you're talking about voting for the sanctity of voting and he does it behind closed doors. >> well, right, and fox doing what it did, participating in locking out other media, what they don't realize is we have something called a network pool up here. if they didn't participate in the network pool, that cable channel would look like oan or newsmax because they wouldn't have any footage. so i don't know if they understand what it's like to be a member of a pool, but i think fox has a lot of questions to answer for here anyway. steve was kwat down in south florida, thank you. i want to bring in a couple

individuals familiar with the house congress, former senator barbara con sack. i want to start with you. you and i have been in this town a long time together. you're not going to be mistaken for a rhino -- a moderate. i do not say this in a discouraging way. you've been a good republican in a moderate way. what's going on? >> i thought you meant clinton's impeachment, when we first worked on that. but it's sad for me. you've seen the attacks on liz cheney are just unconscionable. as you pointed out and as her own op-ed points out, this is about the rule of law. so the election was not stolen. we're five months after the

election, and i think what started as republicans saying just humor donald trump until he's off the stage has unfortunately made him the center of the stage. i think it's more on the house side, not the senate. if you look at the senate leadership, we have mitch mcconnell, john thune, roy blunt, journey ernest, none voted for the insurrection january 6th. what liz cheney said is similar to what mitch mcconnell said. lindsey graham said, enough, i'm out. attorney general bill barr said there wasn't fraud. so she's saying what all of these men said, yet in the house, they are unfortunately making it a litmus test. i think they should rethink that because it would be much better for the house to say, listen, when we only had 46.9%, that's what trump got, we don't need to be subtracting republicans, we need to be adding and we need to turn the page and have a post-pandemic, post-trump party

that unites the wings and moves forward on the future issues and donald trump at 46.9% is not the future. >> this is the part that's sort of head-scratching. you're a free market guy. the markets spoke. donald trump lost the house, the senate and the white house as leader of the republican party. why do republicans continue wanting to keep him as the unofficial ceo? >> you know, battle ships turn slowly i guess is the answer. to barbara's point, there's some degree this is the way things have been for a while and we're still for trump. you certainly hear that from some of the base. and it's always the squeegee wheels get greased in the middle of politics. so some of those that care the most, make the most noise. if you look here in the charleston area and the numbers last go-around, look at suburban

women, look at young people, we lost them in droves on the republican side. so i think it's a fool's errand. i think it is symptomatic of the way people sort of respond to the last show in town. it's like yesterday's battle in the world of politics. and in as much as trump had the microphone, and you can look at this with twitter feeds and others in terms of engagement on social media, people are still responding to that and quite frightened of that based on what happened in the primary, based on what happened in other races across the country, people are like i do not want to get in front of that ship. i'm going to play it safe. this is my view of playing it safe. >> you know, barbara comsack, the most telling detail between liz cheney and stefanik is the tax bill.

i don't mean to sound hyperbolic but the idea loyalty to the leader, this is how mob basses act or authoritarian rulers act but it's very un-democratic. >> exactly, and i voted for that tax bill. it wasn't because i like donald trump. i have been working on tax relief issues for years. it doesn't give me any satisfaction. we certainly got attacked by the press and democrats for supporting those tax cuts. and i think it's sad that it shows unfortunately if this happens and they vote out liz, they're making it a litmus test. nothing proves it's a trump litmus test other than elites felt the need to get that trump endorsement, even after she had mccarthy and scalise. sadly one of the first thing she does today is go on the indicted, pardoned steve bannon's show.

the low of the of the trump team, to go on there and she was talking about arizona, not the agenda. that's what got the headlines. unfortunately, if this goes forward, they're going to continuing to make trump front and center and all of those members are going to have to continue to answer questions about that. just think if they go through with this election, what that press conference asks her, what are all of the questions going to be about, why did you have to get trump's blessing? everything is going to be trump, trump, trump, at a time when certainly the senate is trying to turn the page and a lot of candidates in those swing states want to turn the page and they don't want this to be about trump. 46.9 is not going to get you a majority. and it's lower now. >> mark sanford, the issue of the echo chamber though, as i noted in my lead-in, there are plenty of elected republicans who say, you know what, i don't

care what the mainstream media says. all that matters is what comes out of the box organ, what comes out on my facebook analytical page, and that inability to hear anything else, is that what has these elected republicans tied up in knots? >> well, yeah. the answer is obviously yes. the name of the game is staying in the game for many people in politics. and the saying is, it's the pioneers that end up with arrows in their back and, therefore, nobody wants to lead on issues that's controversial to one's political base and want to play it safe. but that's not what the founding fathers envisioned when we created our system. we swear at the beginning of each congress to uphold the constitutional framework they set up. so playing it safe and simply

looking in your fox hole and this is what people will think in the moment, if that was the system the founding members wanted, they would have given us a democracy but they didn't, they gave us a republican. so they use information we had to again act on that swear of allegiance to the constitution and principles by which it stands. so i think it just misses the point entirely but it's certainly the political save of the moment. >> barbara, when you tried to deal with this echo chamber issue, because this seems to be the problem. we have somewhere between 35% and 40%, they're not listening to the facts, they're only listening to the radio out of one of their pipe speakers. that seems to be at the core of this problem. >> yes, and as i keep mentioning, you know, at 46.9%, we know that's diminished since

election day. 56% of americans thought donald trump should be impeached with the second impeachment. even if he just lost 10% of republicans, you're down in the low 40s or you're going to be in the 30s. so this is not a strategy for winning. and look at -- look at mark sanford's seat. when the president went after mark sanford in a reliable republican seat, yet the person he endorsed ended up beating mark but then they lost that seat. now nancy mays, who did not support the insurrection, did come back in 2020 and win but now you have someone like nancy have that has to worry about, is there going to be some trumpy person come at her? this is not good at all. it's a civil war trump is create egg and will hurt all wings of the party because you will have people in very, very red districts now getting primaried further to the right. marjorie green is an example of this. i would like to remind everyone,

not gaetz, the odious matt gaetz is who first brought up this attack on liz cheney. the idea we're going to have matt gaetz still be there with no consequence and the only person that gets punished here is liz cheney is something that i really hope my former colleagues will reconsider and bring everyone back together and not start making all of their colleagues, whether in a really red district or swing district, you're making them a target by having this vote. >> former congresswoman barbara come stok, former congressman tom sanford, two people who don't hold it back. thank you for coming on and holding your perspectives with us. i appreciate it. >> thank you. up next -- the cdc says the number of coronavirus cases in the united states is on track for a sharp decline. so will we see some sort of new normal by this summer? and what is that new normal going to look like? later, we have an exclusive one on one with the homeland security secretary alejandro

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welcome back. the cdc director says the united states could be very close being out of the woods on the pandemic. the cdc director saying we could turn the corner on the pandemic if americans keep getting vaccinated, and that's a big if. cases are on a steady decline. our daily average hit a seven-month low. globally cases appear to be beginning to decline but they are still in the record highs and there's a significant disparity around the world when it comes to vaccines. in fact, according to the world health organization, one in four people in wealthy countries received the vaccine. in a attempt to speed vaccines around the world, the biden administration supports waving patents for coronavirus vaccines. but that doesn't mean it's going

to happen just yet. the dean of the school of tropical medicine at the baylor college of medicine is joining us now. dr. oar it's, walk us through making vaccines. the two countries pushing this saying, hey, give us the ability to handle the vaccines because both of those countries have the ability to do it, how do you make that happen and is loosening the patents the way to do it? >> i think loosening the patents, chuck, may have some impact but if i had to list my four or five top-line things to do to vaccine the world, loosening patents would not be on the list. it's not that his noncontributory, but it's modest compared to the other things we need. we have a billion people in

subsaharan africa, billions in latin america, half a billion in smaller income countries in asia. we will need about 5 billion doses of vaccines and we need it now. loosening the patents is maybe a long-term issue but it's not going to address how we vaccine the world's low and middle income countries over the next year or so. what we really need from the biden administration is funds to scale up production of vaccines, identifying the sites where we can do manufacturing and then produce vaccines in massive quantities. for instance, our vaccine that's being scaled up by our colleagues, they're making billions of doses. we need the biden administration to say the other 4 billion, contract with manufacturers that know how to use the protein technology. and free flow of materials to the indian manufacturers, so they can make all of the

astrazeneca it needs and those making the johnson & johnson vaccine, give them what they need. but i don't think the patents are the biggest piece of this right now. >> the pfizer and moderna vaccines, they use this new technology, you referred to it in its full name, the short hand being the mrna technology. is that harder to -- how many sites around the world, given how cold it has to be kept and stuff, how many times around the world are needed to get those two vaccines in the quantities necessary so that they can be used without being spoiled? >> well, right now they've made about hundreds of millions of doses but it needs to be scaled to an order of magnitude higher. yes, i think if we can get moderna and pfizer to help build plants in the system, that would

be useful. but the problem is not just the patents. what they need to do is help with the technology transfer. we need to bring in skilled moderna and pfizer staff to teach groups how to scale up and produce the vaccine. it's not like small molecule drugs, chuck. for instance, if you the 12rur of an anti-retro viral drug, you can bring in a chemicalist to make it and the patent would be the only thing standing in the way. with this vaccine, it's different. you need someone trained to produce billions of doses and understands quality control and quality assurance and you need the national regulatory authority that knows how to monitor this. so it's a long-term building project. yes, patents loosening may have a role in the long term but right now it has to be all hands on deck in finding the skilled manufacturers to make it now. >> all right. you stopped using the word herd

immunity. i guess it does appear that we all have to get used to the fact, a, this virus is going to continue to circulate. but are we looking at something more akin to the flu and just have to learn to live with it this way, is that the right mindset to have? >> not exactly. i don't use the term herd immunity because it's been so corrupted by political extremism on the right and they make up fake numbers of 20% herd immunity, 40% herd immunity. it's going on right now in state legislatures making up these fake numbers so i throw it out all together. here's what i say, right now if you look at the top ten states that be vaccinating, that we're getting over 50% to 60% single dose, 40% two doses, once we up it around 60% one dose, above 50%, 60% two doses, we'll get to be like israel in the sense we will dramatically slow, in some cases even help transmission.

that's the good news. the not-so-good news is it's only happening in blue and bluish states. new york, california and new mexico. if you go to the bottom to the deep red states, they're only 35% single dose and far less for two doses and they're going to be left behind and we're going to see ongoing virus transmission in state like idaho, wyoming, georgia, tennessee, alabama, mississippi, which are refusing to vaccine. vaccinate. >> you can see it on the map with the map shows the percentages, you see the entire red part of the south has fallen behind most of the country. anyway, dr. peter hotez, as always, sir, it's great to get your expertise. thank you. coming up -- president

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here's something else that caught my eye today. a progressive group is circulating polling that they conducted about the oldest sitting supreme court justice and whether it's time for him to step down. demand justice commissioned a poll and asked and 50% said stephen breyer should retire this year, and less than a quarter think he should remain on the bench. they were questioning saying justice breyer was considering retiring and that's how they got that result. he was appointed to the high court nearly 27 years ago. this would allow, they say, president biden to nominate the first-ever black woman supreme court justice, especially with democrats in control in the senate. in the press release, the poll noted they're getting nervous breyer will remain at least for another year. we shall see and we will be right back.

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welcome back. president biden arrived in louisiana, where he will be promoting his $2 trillion infrastructure plan next hour. talking about the plan at the white house yesterday, president biden said he's again open to compromising the corporate tax raise. but for the first time he said there's one thing he's not open to, and it made democrats a little nervous. take a listen. >> i'm going to meet with republicans next week when they come back and seriously meet with them. i'm willing to compromise. but i'm not willing to not pay for what we're talking about. i'm not willing to deficit spend. >> there it is. i'm not willing to deficit spend. with me now is senator tina smith, democrat from minnesota. senator smith, i want to start there because, as you know e. there's a little bit of hand ringing among those in sort of center to center right of the democratic party about the tax increases that are in here.

there's been more openness to deficit spend from some of your colleagues. if you have to choose between deficit spending and smaller package, where are you? >> hi, chuck. it's great to be with you. and you know, this is all going to pan out over the next many wiecks and it's hard to say exactly where any of us will be at the end. i think the president is making a really important point though, which is we need to make our tax system more fair. the reason i like what the president is proposing with his tax increases is it is addressing the fundamental inequities we have in our federal tax system. i think we should figure out a way to pay for this. i think that is good common sense. and i think it's great he's continuing to talk to republicans. i take him at his words when he says he wants to negotiate and find common ground. i'm all for that. let's see where we can get to. >> i understand that.

but would you -- would you decide not to vote for, say, universal pre-k if it wasn't paid for and if it was going to be deficit spend? the choices you get, universal pre-k but deficit spending, what do you do? >> well, interesting you picayune versal pre-k because early childhood education is one of my top issues. and so i can't say exactly what i would do because i don't know what the whole package would look like but i don't think -- the point i'm trying to make is i don't think we have to choose between making sure every single one of our babies in this country has a safe, affordable place to be so mothers and dads can get back to work, and there's a question how to pay for it. we have to figure that out. i'm not ready to say we have to make that choice. >> given that the january 6th incident certainly linkers for more people more seriously than some folks, particularly on the

house side and what's happening with liz cheney, you know, there is this sort of dichotomy, you have one part of the republican party that is very uncomfortable with what's going on, most senate republicans, not house republicans, but can you still pass bills in a bipartisan way with this sort of trump lie hanging over the head of the republican party? >> well, we're going to have to see what happens. i noted with interest, of course, that leader mcconnell said, what did he say, i'm 100% committed to stopping the biden agenda. what would have been surprising is if leader mcconnell said, let's try to figure it out. let's try to work something out here. he's himself -- >> senator, let me stop you on that for a second. i don't know if you caught this, today -- it looked like senator mcconnell tried to walk that phrase back. he said he's trying to make a

more moderate administration. do you think he kind of regrets what he said yesterday? >> that would be great news if mitch mcconnell, the great obstructer, is trying to walk it back. maybe he heard from some of his colleagues going back and forth to the white house and trying to figure some common ground. i hope that's the case. that should be the case. the reality is we have got to make big progress in this country. you mentioned childcare. this is the perfect example how we kind of twiddle around the edges. . we made big steps forward and now we need to keep pushing it so everybody has access to childcare they can afford. we will not get there with the same old kind of politics. >> i know you're trying to expand some benefits when it comes to mental health care. again, we have this stigma that still sort of is there that certainly more workplaces are

trying to destigmatize but it's still difficult to get as far as mainstream benefits, whether public or private benefits. >> right. i sat on a seat that was held by the legacy of al franken and it was e it is fighting for the legacy of mental health care. this is personal for me. i had my own story of depression. and i have been sharing it because i want to overcome -- be part of the work to overcome that stigma. and it's really discrimination against mental health. so we have to keep on pushing on this. one of the most important things we can do is get better mental health care in schools. today i was visiting a place in minnesota where they have been dedicated to getting community-based services in schools to help kids that have been really struggling and that's what we need to do more of. that's the legislation i'm working on right now. >> as somebody who benefited from one of those interventions myself when i was in high school, coy tell you that stuff is needed and it's sadly

underfunded. anyway, senator tina smith, democrat from minnesota, thank you for coming on and sharing your views. >> thanks so much, chuck. up next -- my colleague jacob soboroff just wrapped up a new exclusive one on one with the new secretary alejandro mayorkas, who joins us next. youe turning into their parents. now, remember, they're not programs. they're tv shows. you woke up early. no one cares. yes. so, i was using something called homequote explorer from progressive to easily compare home insurance rates. was i hashtagging? progressive can't help you from becoming your parents, but we can help you compare rates on home insurance with homequote explorer. guess what. the waiter doesn't need to know your name. ♪♪ the thing about freedom is... freedom has no limits. there's no such thing as too many adventures... or too many unforgettable moments. there will never be too many stories to write...

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down with alejandro mayorkas a week after families were reunited with their families. >> a while ago i was talking to brian's mother after she was separated from her son from the trump administration. can you guarantee that she and the other reunited families will be able to stay in the united states permanently? >> we are very much focused on providing stability to the reunited families, not just for her but for the family as a unit. it's not something we can guarantee at this point in time, but we are dedicated to achieving more than what we have delivered thus far. this, i think, is a temporary measure. unite the family, reunite the family and then let's work together with those representing the family to see what we can

achieve under the law, and i think what these families both need and deserve. >> jacob soboroff joins me now. jacob, look, they're obviously trying to show that they are making progress on that promise. how much of this -- you've watched this process. is it getting better over the last few weeks as they've gotten more people in place, more nominees confirmed? is their excuse turning out to be a correct one which was, hey, they need some time to get up and running? >> i most certainly think that is in part accurate, chuck, and specifically when it comes to the separations there is no doubt about it. you know, it is going to take a long time to reunite the 1,000 families that remain separated by the trump administration, and secretary mayorkas, this was his first sit-down interview in person.

he spent a lot of time with me, he invited me into his office to take a look. he wanted to talk about how he is approaching not just the separation issue but immigration policy as a whole. he became emotional while he was talking to me about his parents. of course, he's the first latino and first immigrant to ever head the department of homeland security. he is very focused on the reunification of these separated children during the trump administration but he can't yet guarantee the families that have been reunited this week will not face a separate deportation. he says that that is the intent, but they are not there yet, and that's sort of part of it. there is a lot of work to do and a lot of things to untangle under u.s. law, you know, given what is possible under the law. >> hey, we saw that we had the least amount of deportations in the month of april than we've seen in years. put that in context. why would that be? how much is a policy change versus an enforcement change

versus seasonal? >> i asked the secretary about that, actually, chuck, and specifically i asked him the last administration he worked for was the obama administration which deported more people than any other administration in history. i asked him if he thought the biden administration, given the fact that last month they deported fewer people in any month in the history of i.c.e., would the biden administration deport fewer people than any administration in history. he wouldn't go so far as to say that, but he has a very strong emphasis on what he calls the quality of deportations but not the quantity, and he talked a lot about it and he gave a hypothetical example of a violent criminal, the types of people that this administration would want to deport. that does not satisfy activists who want to see a hard stop of

separating families and a hard stop is democratic for some families. >> he has to implement what the laws are, but there are others who would like to see the laws change. how involved is he in the policy debate on capitol hill? there does seem to be some momentum of what i call the small immigration bills, particular visas, things like that. how involved is he in that? >> it seems to me he has a key interest in seeing comprehensive immigration reform pass, not only for what it would do for the border. obviously also what it would do for people in the interior of the united states, including the 11 million undocumented people who have been here for decades, in many cases, as you and i have talked about, and i think it's fair to say that's something that the secretary is deeply engaged in as well. >> jacob soboroff, as you know,

we've been doing a lot of immigration coverage in our "meet the press reports." you were involved in one episode last week. thank you for this. i have a lot more immigration conversation on tonight's part 2 of our immigration focus on our "meet the press report" tonight. tonight we're delving into how did we get to donald trump amnesty. it's on nbc news now and ondemand any time you want on peacock. nbc's coverage continues with my friend jeff bennet right after this break. f bennet right after this break er. and now save when you order in the app. subway®. eat fresh. we look up to our heroes. idolizing them. mimicking their every move. and if she counts on the advanced hydration of pedialyte when it matters most...

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it's good to see you. i'm jeff bennet in for my friend katy tur who is starting her maternity leave. no baby yet. we'll keep you posted on that. as we come on the air, we are waiting for