texas, louisiana, mississippi, alabama, georgia, south carolina, north carolina, virginia, maryland, pennsylvania, and new jersey. the hackers obtained information that could allow them to attack parts of the pipeline. the cyberattack comes on the heels of other recent cyberattacks on u.s. companies and government. the attack highlights the urgent need for legislation addressing the nation's aging infrastructure. as "the new york times" noted, cyberattack is a vivid demonstration of the vulnerability of infrastructure to cyberattacks. the shutdown of such a vital pipeline, one that has served the east coast since the 1960s, highlights the vulnerability of aging infrastructure that has been connected directly or indirectly to the internet. as for the future of biden's multi trillion infrastructure bill, the president is set to

meet with a group to look for common ground. biden has held recent conversations with capito describing last week's meeting as warm and friendly. capito saying afterwards that she was encouraged. there are signs as relates to another of biden's top priorities, police reform. "the wall street journal" reports there appears to be bipartisan agreement on several pieces of police reform legislation including limiting the transfer of some military equipment to departments, banning the use of chokeholds except in life-threatening situations and some changes to no-knock warrants. however, this is the major gop which remains engulfed over trumpism and fealty to the big election lie. joining me now is eugene scott. eugene, good morning to you. the biden administration is trying to negotiate with republicans on a couple of different fronts.

we talked about policing, on this infrastructure bill but this is a party, a conservative party, that is trying to push a lifelong conservative out of leadership for denouncing the obvious and dangerous lie that the election was stolen for donald trump. is this republican party too deep into these conspiracy theories to be able to negotiate in good faith and move forward with the biden administration? >> it certainly seems so to a lot of critics. many people thought the biden's idea was a dated one based on his time working in washington. but i think what we have seen as he's come into the white house is him continuing to put into place plans that he thinks could be winsome to republican lawmakers based on the fact that they're really popular and attractive to republican voters with the hope that that will move these lawmakers closer. when it comes to the infrastructure plan we have not

seen that yet, despite at least 60% of republicans supporting this plan but that hasn't kept biden from trying to move forward with making these individuals who are on the other side of the aisle see things the way their voters do. >> so let's think about this. you've got shelly moore-capito. i'm trying to think of the republican senators who have reached out to the administration. there's porter of ohio, there's toomey of pennsylvania, there's tom cotton, there's mitt romney. do they have sway in the larger republican party or even the larger republican senatorial conference to get things done with this administration, because they don't represent what seems to be the larger republican party right now? >> well, had you asked that maybe a month and a half ago i would probably say yes. but when you look at what has happened with liz cheney very recently, that leaves the question unanswered. and it appears that those in the

gop who are more willing to work with those on the other side of the aisle may not have the support from the caucus as a whole and certainly the voters to move forward with something that is more bipartisan. the thing is that americans, if you look at the polls, definitely want to see bipartisanship happen. they have been consistent in saying they want to see both sides come together to get things done from the coronavirus pandemic relief all the way to getting bridges and highways built. ultimately if these republicans do not try to figure out a way to actually get something done beyond just sabotaging the biden plan for america, that could hurt them in the polls in the next election. >> what are you hearing around about this so-called civil war in the republican party, the idea that people like liz cheney, a conservative's conservative, by the way, not a liberal bone in her body, is being forced out in her party by someone who's a lot more moderate because of this fealty

to this big lie. this makes it very, very hard for mainstream conservatives to move on with the republican party right now. >> what you're hearing is something pretty similar to what you heard when trump was in office, and that's gop lawmakers saying that the voters, the base, the people that sent them to washington are still with the former president. and any ideas policywise or behaviors or values that push back on trumpism will be met with negativity by those voters. and so it's one of these issues where you see the republicans in washington really wanting to represent those who back them, not their constituents as a whole and that's going to lead to even more division in the congressional districts and things as a whole if things don't change or move in a different direction. >> eugene, good to see you my friend. eugene scott is a reporter for "the washington post." while some republicans appear ready to compromise on infrastructure and policing, the same cannot be said for biden's

american families plan, against which the gop is launching a full-fledged culture war style assault. this is a $1.8 trillion proposal that would expand federal investment in child care, higher education and paid employee leave among other measures that are meant to help the american people. the need to revamp the way america handles these issues has been highlighted during the covid-19 pandemic which has disproportionately affected working women in this country. now one congresswoman is pushing to create a short of marshall plan for moms to help working mothers return to the workforce. joining me now is grace mang of new york, vice chair of the congressional asian-pacific american caucus. congresswoman, first and foremost, happy mother's day to you. it's an appropriate day to discuss this. republican party is attacking joe biden's american families plan, seemingly on all sides. your bill in theory should have

bipartisan support. there's nobody economically or ideologically who should be against working mothers, i would assume. >> yes. thank you for having me and happy mother's day to all our moms taking care of so many of us. there is no time better than now to show our moms that we want to show appreciation by giving more than just flowers. moms across this country, especially the 1.5 million moms who have left the career, their career workforce, need help and they need real support. we in this country need to reimagine what our economy looks like in relation to caregiving. and so we want to make sure that our moms, and these are republican moms, democratic moms, every mom in between has the necessary support from child care, universal child care, to making sure that we have paid leave. the united states is behind so many other countries. this is our chance to do it. mental health support,

affordable broadband access. these are not privileges. these should be rights for our american families. >> is there something, have you got some common ground with republicans on the things that you're proposing? >> well, we are still working. i'm thankful for the biden administration for putting forth such an excellent framework in the american families and jobs plans. we already saw an important initial investment through the american rescue plan that was signed a few months ago, and we have literally seen how families are being lifted up out of poverty, so crucial, in all our states and territories after this last year of the coronavirus pandemic. and so we hope to continue to be having conversations. this helps everyone. it's not a partisan issue. >> i want to ask you, congresswoman, you've worked a lot on some of the issues that we've been facing in the last year about hate directed at asian-americans.

amongst other things you're working on, you're introduced legislation to promote the teaching of asian-pacific history in schools. it's an area that i think a lot of americans contend they don't get properly unless they take a specialized course in high school or university, they don't learn important parts about asian-american roles and contributions to american history. >> correct. we have not had a full and complete and accurate teaching of what american history is in this country. we did not learn enough about the chinese exclusion act, japanese incarceration camps, about slaves biddle the u.s. capitol, the very place where i work every day. we try to make sure that our children, our future leaders are learning what true american history looks like and we are also working with colleagues in the black caucus, latino caucus, and native american members to ensure that history and

curriculum is more diverse. >> congresswoman, good to see you. thank you for joining us this morning. democratic representative grace mang of new york. we have much more "velshi" coming up. we're going to speak with dr. francis collins. i'll ask him about biden's new goal to make sure 70% of americans receive one dose of the vaccine by july 4th and whether that gets us to herd immunity. plus hiring seems to be slowing down nationwide. republicans believe that biden's federal aid plans, the very ones meant to help americans during the pandemic, might be to blame. more "velshi" after this. more "vels hi" after this marie could only imagine enjoying freshly squeezed orange juice. now no fruit is forbidden. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn?

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to add a channel or streaming service and stay caught up. at least 50 people have been killed and more than 100 wounded in a series of explosions outside a school in afghanistan. many of the victims were teenage girls leaving for school for the day. this underscores fears of violence in the region ahead of

a full u.s. troop withdrawal. richard engle is covering that story. richard? >> reporter: there were so many victims in this attack they have decided to bury them all in a single mass grave here on a hilltop outside of kabul. the reason these people were targeted is because they were young girls and going to school. they were daring to get an education. according to health officials, more than 50 girls were killed in this attack. schools in this country are overcrowded so they run on weekends, they run in shifts. the shift that was targeted specifically was the third shift, only for girls. they had just finished their classes. they were coming outside of the school, walking home, when the major blast, the first of three, exploded. it was a car bomb and it exploded right in the middle of the crowds. the reason is because the taliban and isis and other islamic militant groups don't want girls in this country to be educated. they don't want them to go to

school. and now that international troops are leaving, those militant groups, isis and the taliban, are trying to fill the void and reimpose their backward ideology and frighten children away, frighten girls away from getting an education. they don't want them to be doctors or lawyers or engineers. they want them to stay at home once again. and there's another reason this particular group was attacked. many of these people are members of the ethnic shia minority in this country and muslim extremists have often attacked them as well. there are fears here that as international troops pull back, this country could descend back into a civil war with ethnic minorities and women and girls in particular paying the heaviest price. >> richard engle, thanks. as of now, no one has claimed responsibility for that attack but the afghan president blamed the taliban, which as richard

pointed out, opposes education for women and girls. well, this weekend the cdc updated guidance on covid transmission is emphasizing that the virus mainly spreads through air rather than regular close contact. i'll ask the national institutes of health director, francis collins, about that, next. h dir collins, about that, next. e ia . the rx, crafted by lexus. lease the 2021 rx 350 for $439 a month for 36 months. experience amazing, at your lexus dealer. finding new routes to reach your customers, and new ways for them to reach you... is what business is all about. it's what the united states postal service has always been about. so as your business changes, we're changing with it. with e-commerce that runs at the speed of now.

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major changes this weekend in the battle against coronavirus and how it's transmitted, but first new reporting that multiple u.s. states are turning down hundreds of thousands of covid vaccines as demand plummets. the associated press reports wisconsin officials have asked for just 8% of the 162,680 doses that the federal government had set aside for the state next week. other states known to be scaling back include connecticut, illinois, north carolina, south carolina, and washington. it comes as top health experts say we've got a lot more to do

in the fight against covid-19. the cdc on friday saying the droplets of the airborne virus can be inhaled even when you're more than 6 feet away from an infected individual. it revised its prior stance that most infections were acquired through close contact rather than airborne transmission. this new information is critical, particularly when it comes to the spread of the virus while indoors and how it lends itself to spreading in workplace scenarios. the cdc also projecting a sharp decline in covid cases in the united states by july. the latest findings are tied to high rates of vaccination as well as continued wearing of masks and physical distancing where appropriate. president biden setting new goals. he said he wants 70% of americans to have received at least one vaccine dose by july 4th which still falls short of the 75% to 90% that some say is needed to reach herd immunity. joining me now is dr. francis collins, the director of the national institutes of health, a consistent voice throughout the pandemic who's been with us.

dr. collins, it's always good to see you. thank you for being with us. i know you're not the cdc but you are an agency of the u.s. government. a number of people who have said to me, people who have been lifelong fans of the cdc except for some blips last year that they are confused by a bunch of new directions coming from the cdc, about mask wearing outdoors and the airborne nature of this. can you give me some clarity to what's going on and why so much is changing more than a year after we've seen this vaccine? >> well, a lot of the reasons it's changing is because we're making real progress. my wife and i are now fully immunized. we can go for a walk outside without our masks on and feel completely safe doing so. we can invite other couples who are also fully immunized to come to dinner at our house and sit around the same table and not worry about the masking or the physical distancing. so yes, the cdc is recognizing that and very carefully, so that we don't open up too soon and

end up with another surge, giving people information. but yeah, it is complicated. maybe in a way we are all having to be a bit like epidemiologists to weigh the pros and cons of each action and cdc is trying to help with that, so watch that site. there are lots of ways in which you can use that information in your daily experience, but check it out. every once in a while things will change. we want them to change. we want to get better. we want to get through this. >> that's a good way to put it. you had tweeted something the other day to say that a past covid-19 infection doesn't fully protect against reinfection. a recent study found despite previous infection and antibodies, it's still necessary to sleeve up, as you call it, to get immunized to prevent reinfection and transmission more effectively. that's an interesting piece of news. if you've been infected by covid, you're not in the clear. >> you are somewhat more in the clear than if you hadn't had that infection.

you do get some immuity from natural illness, but it turns out the vaccines give you better coverage for that, which is why even those who have been infected, have a well documented case of covid-19, still ought to go ahead with the vaccination to really boost up that immunity and make it less likely that you're going to get this whole thing all over again. ali, it's mother's day so i want to say something to moms because you've been carrying a lot of the weight to responding to this terrible pandemic. you're the one who's been ordering the masks and the hand sanitizer and checking out the information on the vaccines. a lot of moms have figured out, yeah, this is something i want for my family but maybe the whole family hasn't gotten on board. so dads, adult sons and daughters, if you want to give mom a present on mother's day, if you haven't got vaccinated, tell her you're going to do it. go to your phone and text this number and you can see it on the

screen, getvax which is 438829 or for spanish 822862, and punch in your zip code and you will get within less than a minute the location and phone number of three places near you that have vaccines in stock and are ready to help you get immunized, roll up your sleeve. so again, mother's day, okay, be good to mom. you'll make her happy if you take this step. >> dr. collins, earlier i talked to michael lewis, who's got this new book out and it's so well written. i don't know if you've read it but you'd appreciate it. he sees things through the eyes of medical experts and public health officials, not just from the beginning of the virus but before that, sort of late 2019. he talks about the degree to which public health officials, of which you are one, you know, warned of these dangers and the difficulty that they had in 2020 with that.

i wouldn't mind your honest reflection on that, about what 2020 was like for public health officials like yourself who were dedicated to public health and yet were swimming upstream against the government. >> well, i've been nih director now for almost 12 years. if people ask me even four or five years ago, what is the thing that keeps you up at night, the answer is this pandemic that we're overdue for. i don't know what it's going to be, when it's going to happen but that's what worries me. and then january 2020 there it was. this coronavirus that nobody expected to have the properties it did. and yes, we got off to a very rough start. testing was a problem. we didn't realize at first that this virus could be contagious by people with no symptoms. that was sort of unprecedented. that meant we had to constantly adapt our plans and people said, oh, we are flip flopping. no, we are learning about this

virus and getting more scientific information, adjusting the recommendations. the message is coming from different states that are different whether you should take this seriously or not. at the top of the federal government there was a lot of misleading information. this was not a pretty picture for the most technologically advanced country in the world. now, things did get together in terms of a science. ali, it's pretty amazing that in 11 months we went from not even knowing about this virus to having two approved vaccines by fda. that's about five times faster than has ever happened before and these are remarkably safe and effective. so science rose to the occasion. goodness, we still had a chaotic situation. sadly, i think many lives have been lost of that 580,000 deaths in the u.s. not all of those needed to happen. >> dr. collins, we thank you for your frankness and your honesty with us the entire time. it really helped our viewers. dr. francis collins is the director of the national

institutes of health. i'm glad to hear you and your wife are both vaccinated. a new report from "the washington post" says republican officials are hiding numbers that prove that sticking by donald trump could be a fatal mistake for republicans. joe walsh is up next. he hears from voters every day and he says poll numbers be damned. gop voters are standing by their man no matter what. that's coming up next on "velshi." that's c oming up next on "velshi. y not both? visibly diminish wrinklkin in... crepe corrector lotion... only from gold bond. to celebrate salonpas day and our mission to improve people's lives through topical pain relief we invite you to try our powerful, long-lasting patch for muscle and joint pain, get your free sample at trysalonpas.com hisamitsu

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what's becoming increasingly clear is the republican party's biggest concern is how to keep donald trump and his supporters happy. we know the party doesn't seem concerned about policy, because if it were congresswoman liz cheney who is deeply conservative would not be on her way out as a conference chair but only to have a more moderate but more loyal to trump replacement in congresswoman elise stefanik. party officials may be so dedicated to donald trump that they are suppressing evidence of his weakness in some internal discussions that they're having. according to "the washington post" when rnc staff gave a briefing on polling to elected republicans on how the gop is doing in key battleground districts, they left out a key finding showing trump's weakness and would not reveal those numbers even when questioned directly about it by a member of congress. this is what they left out in their polling presentation. trump's unfavorable ratings were 15 points higher than his favorable ones in key

battleground districts and nearly twice as many voters had a strongly unfavorable view of the former president than a strongly favorable one. we only know about this because "the washington post" got a copy of the internal polling itself and reported out details this weekend from sources who attended that briefing. barbara comstock who is paying attention to the numbers put it plainly to me yesterday on the show. >> the problem is that actually donald trump never received a majority of the public vote and at 46.9 he was shrinking his part of the vote. so when you take 46.9% of the population and then you start a civil war within the republican party, nobody wins. >> by the way, those weren't rnc numbers, they were the national republican campaign committee. joining me now is former republican congresswoman joe walsh as illinois. he also ran as a republican

presidential candidate in 2020. joe, good to see you. that point that barbara comstock made was interesting. probably every last republican or every last conservative or every last trumpist came out in this last election. they understood what was at stake. they understood that if they lost their guy, they lost their guy. i find it hard to believe there are republicans saying we need to continue pandering to him. while it gets you his base, it doesn't get you enough to win. >> hey, ali, good to be with you. look, i respect barbara comstock, my former colleague, but i think part of the problem is we get so wrapped up in the day-to-day machinations here, we lose sight of the bigger picture. the republican party, ali, is a cult. i mean i know a lot of people say that, but think about what we are saying. one of america's two major political parties is a cult. it's an authoritarian embracing, undemocratic, unamerican cult. i mean, again, ali, big picture,

think about it. for the first time in american history last year, a sitting american president refused to accept his loss, refused to cede power, and actually incited an attack against our very own government. again, ali, i'm almost done, but think about that. a sitting american president encouraged his supporters to attack our government. and yet, that former president, ali, is still the leader of the party. and no matter what barbara comstock says and no matter what all the consultants and talking heads on msnbc say, donald trump is the leader of this party. it's his party, and that's not changing any time soon. >> so here's the problem, joe. you and i are friends and that's the beauty of a pluralistic society, because you and i like each other. but in normal times if we were talking policy, we'd agree on

virtually nothing. we wouldn't agree on health care, wouldn't agree on wages, wouldn't agree on abortion, we wouldn't agree on regulation. so for guys like you, a real conservative, people like liz cheney, people like mitt romney, not as conservative but quite conservative, what do you do? because this new trump party doesn't represent you. so what do people like you who want smaller government and lower taxes actually do? >> well, and, ali, to your credit i've always learned some from you so we may agree on more than you think. look, let's be honest. again, there's no divide in this party. it's all trump. there's no room for me. there's no room for liz cheney in this party. so what do we do? look, we're in the wilderness for a while, ali, there's no doubt about it, because the republican party isn't changing. and by the way, it is a shrinking party. it's a party of a bunch of old white men and old women. it's shrinking. so principled moderates and/or

conservatives like me, we're out here in the wilderness for a while. i actually believe, ali, that this is one of those rare moments in american history where there is a unique opportunity to build something new. a moderate radically centrist party that's not an authoritarian-embracing cult. i think that's going to happen. >> is that actively discussed? is that the kind of thing the people you talk to, meaning on your radio show, the people that call in, would support or are they still in the trump camp? >> well, the republican party voters are still in the trump camp. i am part of conversations with a whole bunch of conservatives and moderates who want nothing to do with that cult and we're trying to figure out what to do right now. but again, ali, if you think about it, we've had, what, a 168-year-old democratic

republican duopoly on our political system. one of our political parties is shrinking by the day. all of us in the middle or in the middle right need to have a home. there's an opportunity here. again, i think that we're looking at starting something new. >> you know, when i say that you and i would disagree in normal times, i don't even mean it in a bad way. i would love to have republicans on my show to debate issues of our time but i can't because these days we're talking about nonsense, who won the election, election fraud and stuff like that. we should be talking about wages, we should be talking about health care, we should be talking about taxes, we should be talking about regulation. the country suffers when we can't do that. joe, i appreciate you always taking the time to be with us. >> thanks, ali. >> joe walsh is a former republican congressman from illinois and chairman of the bravery project. as the biden administration pushes towards its goal to get at least one vaccine dose in 70% of americans by july 4th, one

celebrity chef is stepping up in a major way to give folks a reason to get vaccinated. jonathan capehart joins me now. i can't believe you have a chef on the show, jose andres. he's a philanthropist, activist. frankly, if he told me to get a vaccine, i'd take it. >> chef andres, the one thing you left out, for a lot of people he's an angel because he has swooped in to so many places in this country and around the world to make sure people get fed, the hungry get fed during natural disasters. natural disasters and also human-made disasters. remember, ali, when the government shut down here during the last administration, jose andres opened up food banks for furloughed government workers. and so what he wants to do now

is in order to get people vaccinated, to bump it up to that 70% vaccination rate, he's going to offer $50 gift certificates to his restaurants as a way of encouraging people to get vaccinated. as we know, that is very much needed because the number of vaccinations, the demand for the vaccine is actually going down. >> jonathan, you know i cover hurricanes a lot and often when i get to places that have been totally devastated, there are journalist, aid workers and fema people, jose andres and his team getting ready to feed people. he's a remarkable, remarkable guy. great to see you, my friend. jonathan capehart. tune into to "the sunday show" at 10:00 a.m. eastern. it's a great conversation. republicans are falling back on an old argument to explain the slowdown in hiring nationwide, unemployment aid. they say the extra federal benefits meant to keep americans afloat during the pandemic are

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the u.s. is seeing an unexpected slowdown in hiring nationwide as unemployment ticked up this week by a tenth of a percent and incredibly some republican governors first instinct is to punish unemployed people. red states like arkansas, montana and south carolina have acted to slash the extra $300 weekly payments to unemployed americans that have helped keep families afloat as the pandemic threatened to crash the economy. these governors are hoping that the loss of generous federal aid might force more people to try to return to work, end quote. let that sink in for a moment. they want to take away a safety net because they think it will force people back to work during what is still a global pandemic by the way. there's another idea. maybe if people earned properly then the extra $300 would be considered a disincentive to

work. joining me is writer and editor for msnbc daily hayes brown and jennifer rubin. jennifer, let me start with you. like joe walsh and i were just talking about, there was a time that i would enjoy arguing with you on different perspectives on an issue. this is a tricky one. unemployment insurance is insurance. you pay into it, which is why you get it when things go bad. when the government needs to step in at times like this, it does. i think there's a real argument for not continuing emergency aid well beyond an emergency. but these arguments being made by these republican governors right now is premature. we're still in the emergency. >> it's actually wrong as well as being premature. janet yellen appeared in the white house briefing room and tried to explain it to reporters. i don't know if she had much luck getting through to them. but as she pointed out, there are lots of reasons why people haven't returned to work, including the fact they don't have child care. perhaps if they passed that

portion of president biden's family -- american families plan they would have relief. so there are lots of reasons contributing. and if it was really this amount of money, this extra few hundred dollars, then what you would see is where unemployment benefits were highest, you'd see the unemployment rate the highest. people staying home to get all this great wealth, these great benefits. but in fact as she pointed out that's not the case. so i think what we need to do is concentrate on getting the money that's already been allocated out there into the economic bloodstream, if you will, work on some of these problems like child care, and then get going on the rest of the agenda. the american jobs plan, for example, has all sorts of things that would not only provide for new avenues of employment, but make it easier. people who are taking care of seniors would have some relief. so there are lots of reasons and they, i think, harped on this

one because it fits their ideological notion that people are somehow lazy and deserve this. but i don't think the facts bear that out. >> yeah, it's $300 a week, the extra payment is $7.50 an hour if you're full-time employed if that's what's keeping people home, then we have a bigger problem in society. hayes brown, we do have a bigger problem and it's not necessarily ideological. it's the idea that we somehow find ways to increase our deficits when we give companies tax breaks but we twist ourselves into remarkable pretzels to figure out how to give people, taxpayers, actual government money. >> yeah, absolutely. and that's one of the things that biden has really been harping on as well, up to and including his joint speech -- speech to a joint session of congress the other week. the idea that companies and people who are still doing very, very well actually need to pay their taxes so that we can have the safety net for people who

are going through hard times. i mean as biden pointed out, he got in trouble for this during the election. we are saying things won't really change to a group of fund-raisers behind closed doors. but what he was saying recently is for the people at the very top, his increase in taxes on the highest earners in the country, the increase on the corporate tax that he is still willing to negotiate on, that will not hurt the bottom line for many of these people. they will still have access to their private planes. they will still have that fourth home in wherever. but it's people who depend on things like unemployment insurance so when furloughs come along and a pandemic hits or when layoffs hit troubled industry, then they have that backup. so it's really crucial to get the income that is needed for the federal government to be able to provide things for the people who actually require it. and so, again, it makes sense that republicans are arguing that this benefit is why people

are staying home, it's why they push things like right to work forever. they don't want the corporations, they don't want the companies, the capital to have to pay out as much to labor and trying to protect that, protect that capital, they are throwing up these roadblocks to people actually getting help when they need it. >> but again, none of this should be ideological. whether you're a conservative or a liberal, i think we can agree labor should be compensated well and we've got a system that doesn't necessarily see that. both of you stay there for a second, we're going to continue this discussion after a quick break, including some news about what republicans might actually be up to, those who don't want to see trump come back. trump cm k . couple loves camping adventures and their suv is always there with them. so when their windshield got a chip, they wanted it fixed fast. they drove to safelite autoglass for a guaranteed, same-day, in-shop repair. we repaired the chip before it could crack. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them.

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your connection doesn't. so how do i do this? you don't do this. we do this, together. bounce forward, with comcast business. next thursday, the day after the vote to out of liz cheney, you are going to see a group of prominent republicans, ex-republicans and independents announce the need for a new common sense coalition in american politics. we'll come out publicly and say that the gop is broken. >> there are conversations that will emerge this week, and in succeeding weeks that will clearly define a new way forward. a common sense, you know, center right conservative approach to governing. and then we'll see how, you know, how the republicans respond. but certainly, more importantly,

how america responds. >> that was miles taylor and michael steel, two republicans who are not beholden to trump, hipting at an effort by a group of common sense republicans to move the party forward. back with me, hayes brown and jennifer rubin, msnbc contributor and "washington post" opinion writer and a conservative who has her ear to the ground. have you heard about this? >> yeah, there have been a lot of discussions. this has been going on, frankly, since donald trump first won the nomination back in 2016. and i think there is a lot of discussion. in the past i think people have looked upon third party movements as a problem. but it's not clear that they necessarily need another party. if you remember the democrat leadership caucus, which was a more centrist group of democrats, gave us bill clinton and helped revive the democratic party that had lost three successive elections.

so i think it's important to put an alternative out there and what i have argued is that only part of this problem is really donald trump. the other part is that republicans have ceased to have an agenda that's very attractive or very applicable to the 21st century. there really is no big cry out there in the public to get rid of obamacare. there is no human cry to keep corporate taxes low for the big companies. those are positions that might please donors and wealthy people, but it really isn't a popular view. an effort to craft a message, craft a substantive policy agenda that is more attractive is an excellent idea because aside from being in this cult-like state, republicans don't have any ideas. and the ideas they have are noxious to very many voters. >> you are so great to always

offer to be on this show. what a lot of people don't know, when i write a column, you are the guy who edits it and it takes my jumbled garbage and makes it something so clear. what is the need for a healthy republican party? joe biden said it on monday. he said we need a -- we need a republican party. america definitely needs more than one party in the mix. why should this be important to people who dislike republicans that the republican party not disappear and completely falter? >> right. so i think that it's important because, like you say, we can't just have a one-party system in this country. that's the way you get to stale thinking, you get unchallenged control over the ideas of the country and that's not healthy for democracy. you want to be able to have debate. you want to be able to means test -- not means test but stress test your ideas. you want to be able to take them to someone who would disagree and say here's what i think. why am i wrong?

give me the best answer so i can make my policies better. and so the republican party, i mean, a lot of why people who are democrats, who are liberals say they don't like the republicans in general is the history of, you know, white supremacy and racism baked into a lot of the policies the republican party has held in the past. if it's possible to shed that, while still espousing a sense of wanting smaller government, of wanting lower taxes, of wanting to provide for more people, i feel like that is something that could and should appeal to people across race, across gender because, in the past, republicans have tried to reach out to -- reach out to women. reach out to the african-american community. reach out to hispanics on this idea that we'll give you the space to grow economically, to give you the space to grow as an individual. that is no longer what republicans have been focusing on in this era of trump, and i feel like if they can get back to that, figure out how to make

that pitch to the people, it could challenge democrats to move more substantively, we need these policies to grow things for everyone. and i think that back and forth can be healthy. it has been so broken for most of my life that it's almost hard for me to picture what that even looks like. i really have hope for these people who are trying to come out and form this party within a party, much like the dnc did back in the clinton era. i don't know if they'll have room to succeed given how many elected officials in the republican party these days are still terrified of being primaried from the right because one of the things that has to be contended with is there's always someone out there willing to say dumb, mean things for money and -- >> well, that's clear. >> that's how we got trump. >> yeah. >> so how do you get to the point where people care about the policies and not about feeling good about the people they are told they should feel bad about.

>> this picture that you have drawn, even though you say you've not really experienced it in your life, jennifer, it's a beautiful picture. it sounds like opportunity to me. is it possible? i talked to joe walsh who said guys like him are out in the wilderness for a while. >> it wasn't in the deep, dark ages that you had a president, george w. bush, whatever you think of his foreign policy, who was pro-immigration reform, who had no child left behind, who was interested in opportunity for disadvantaged youth. it wasn't in the deep, dark ages that you had ronald reagan who also was in favor of immigration reform. we've had a lot of republican presidents who build national highways, who have backed the space program. richard nixon started the epa. there are a lot of republicans who have looked at problems and thought constructively about how to fix them. and the proof is really at the state level. you do have some constructive

republicans. charlie baker in massachusetts, larry hogan in maryland who have looked at these problems and come up with common sense solutions. so it is possible, just not in washington, i guess. >> we shall leave on that optimistic note. thank you to both of you, hayes brown, writer and editor for msnbc news daily and jennifer rubin. catch me here next saturday and sunday from 8:00 to 10:00 a.m. the brains of the operation is rebecca dryden. she's a real mother to two precocious and caring daughters. so our team mother, rebekah, to all of our mothers and to all of you mothers out there, thanks for what you do and making white house we are. ""the sunday show" with jonathan capehart starts right now.

kevin mccarthy is desperate to be speaker. we'll take a cold, hard look at the man setting liz cheney adrift and ignoring these two. republican race war. the truth about our history that mitch mcconnell and others don't want taught. and if you're not vaxed, a renowned chef is here to talk about his plan to change that. i'm jonathan capehart and this is "the sunday show." this sunday, the republican party is at war with itself. congresswoman liz cheney awaits a vote on whether she should keep her position as the number three house republican this week. her dissent is all but certain, thanks to the final push from house minority leader kevin mccarthy. or should we say speaker mccarthy? that's clearly the job he wants. and one he thinks he can