cyberware. the company supplies half of the east coast's fuel supply. here is commerce secretary gina raimondo a short time ago on the investigation. >> as it relates to colonial, the president was briefed yesterday. it's an all hands on deck effort right now. and we are working closely with the company, state and local officials, to make sure that they get back up to normal operations as quickly as possible, and that there aren't disruptions in supply. >> we'll have more on the investigation, and how that shutdown might affect gas prices, and who the suspected culprits are, in just a few minutes. also today, the battle over gop leadership intensifies with a vote expected in a matter of days to determine who will hold the number three spot in the house. some republicans trying to walk a fine line between liz cheney and donald trump. >> for us to win in 2022 and

2024, we need everybody. we need those who feel as liz. we need those who feel as lindsey. now, ultimately it's about the policies. you see that cheney, cassidy, support those policies. those policies are a ticket to victory. >> let's just put our differences aside and be unified. you cannot unify truth with lies. and new reaction today into those april jobs numbers. congressman jim clyburn slamming republicans' messaging and claiming those numbers make a stronger case for president biden's infrastructure plan. >> we may be talking about the big lie as it relates to the election, but very close to that is this notion that people don't want to work. i have not met any of those people who don't want to work. i have met a lot of people who are staying off of work because they cannot find childcare for their children. and you've got the republican party not willing to make that a part of infrastructure. that is a critical part of

infrastructure. and new polling out just moments ago about how social media affects our ability to unify as a country. 64% say social media divides us, more than double those who said it brings us together. our nbc journalists are covering developments across the country. welcome, ladies. nbc's monica alba is at the white house where the president will host bipartisan discussions. monica, who is expected to attend? >> reporter: it's a big week here as negotiations kick off in earnest. majority leader chuck schumer, house speaker nancy pelosi, and on the republican side, minority leader mitch mcconnell and house leader kevin mccarthy. that will be a notable meeting for many reasons. it's supposed to be about the infrastructure plan but it comes on the same day when house republicans are expected to oust liz cheney from her leadership

role. the following day, on thursday, the president has invited six different key gop senators who have relevant committees, when we're talking about these issues of the jobs and infrastructure plans. they'll be meeting with him on thursday. we know there is quite a gulf right now between what the white house has proposed, more than $2 trillion for the american jobs plan, and what republicans are already countering with. these negotiations, as the white house has framed it, are really about providing more of a clean slate, in the words of the white house press secretary, offering republicans a chance to come to the table and give their own ideas. and we got a little bit more insight from the commerce secretary earlier this morning on one of the sunday shows about why they feel the need is more urgent than ever now to try to move forward with this legislation, given the weaker april jobs report. take a listen to what she had to say. >> we are making bold moves. but there's a long way to go.

and we have to be there to help americans find jobs. we're focused on helping the president get the jobs package passed, and the families package. the reality is we have fallen behind with our investments in the economy. and people are still struggling. >> reporter: remember, alex, the president has invited republicans here to the white house in the past on the covid relief deal, but as we all remember, no republicans ended up supporting that bill. but white house officials do tell me they're more hopeful for bipartisanship when it comes to infrastructure. and in terms of a timeline, they're hoping for what they're calling major progress by memorial day, just a couple of weeks from now. >> that means there would be jobs this summer. thank you so much, monica alba. over on capitol hill, a major shake-up in republican leadership is expected, congresswoman liz cheney poised to be ousted from her number three position over her criticism of donald trump. nbc's ali vitali is on capitol

hill with the latest. what are republicans saying about it? >> reporter: alex, it depends when republicans you're listening to. on the sunday shows we heard larry hogan, the governor of maryland, saying that the republican party should be a bigger tent and stop this circular firing squad against people like liz cheney who have spoken against former president donald trump. you played a little bit of senator cassidy of louisiana, arguing that there is enough room in this party for people like cheney and people like senator lindsey graham who are more pro-trump allies. but none of those people are going to be in the room on wednesday when house republicans vote on the fate of liz cheney and her leadership position. she's likely, during that secret ballot, to lose her number three leadership post. the reason we're saying "likely" with such a high degree of confidence is because of comments like this from the top republican, kevin mccarthy. this is what he said this morning. >> any member can take whatever position they believe in. that's what the voters vote on

the individuals and they make that decision. as conference chair, you have one of the most critical jobs as messenger going forward. that's why we need a conference that's united, that's why we need a conference chair that's delivering that message day in and day out and uniting the nation to make sure that we are on the right footing going forward. >> do you support elise stefanik for that job? >> yes, i do. >> reporter: alex, so kevin mccarthy throwing his support behind stefanik. steve scalise, number two house republican, already supporting stefanik. perhaps most importantly, donald trump supporting elise stefanik because really, that is what this is all about, house republicans sending the message that they see the only way back to the majority in 2022 through donald trump and his allyship. that's why they're ousting this number three top republican who has spoken out of step with him. but the broader picture here is, again, back to the sunday shows. you still have some republicans saying that donald trump should

not be the litmus test for the party. that means that even though on wednesday this act of this dramatic play might be over, the larger play still has time to play out, as we go through 2022 and then ultimately 2024 as the party continues to battle for the role of donald trump and whether it wants to take a consult of personality approach or a more conservative policy-based approach. >> at least for now, where donald trump goes, apparently the majority of republican leadership goes, ali, thank you for that. let's go to the ransomware attack that's keeping the nation's largest fuel pipeline offline. kathy park is in new york city with the very latest. this could potentially be a big, huge mess. where do things stand right now? >> reporter: hey there, alex. this outage is still ongoing. as more time passes, experts say that is a big concern because colonial pipeline carries nearly half of the east coast's fuel supply. if this shutdown extends through the week, we could potentially

see impacts at the pumps and beyond. a major cyberattack shutdown. >> this is the jugular of the u.s. oil industry. >> reporter: the nation's largest fuel pipeline falling victim to a cybersecurity attack involving ransomware. colonial pipeline temporarily halting all operations friday in a system spanning from texas to new jersey. colonial now enlisting the help of a third party cybersecurity firm to investigate the ongoing incident, adding in a statement that the company's primary focus is the safe and efficient restoration of our service and to minimize disruption to our customers. colonial transports more than 100 million gallons of refined products per day including gasoline, diesel, home heating oil and jet fuel. while it's unclear when operations will come back online, experts say consumers could see an impact with an extended delay. >> if they can't figure out how to patch the problem in more

than 24 hours, if it starts to take five days or seven days, we're all going to see a little spike at the pump. >> reporter: several federal agencies are now monitoring the situation, including the fbi, the department of energy, and the cisa, the federal agency in charge of cybersecurity, adding the attack underscores the threat that ransomware poses to organizations regardless of size or sector. and alex, experts caution that a prolonged shutdown could also impact jet fuel supply. and that would have a ripple effect on major airport hubs. and right now it's still unclear who is behind the cyberattack, alex. >> it's a heck of a story. thank you so much, kathy park, for bringing it to us. here to talk more about this attack, technology editor patrick tucker, welcome. big picture here, given the

perspective on how big a deal this is, the fact that an outside entity could attack american infrastructure in this way. >> this is potentially a very big deal in terms of the vulnerability of the u.s. electrical infrastructure supply grid in terms of fuel. there is no indication right now that this particular attack is going to have an enormous ripple effect. the company itself shut down the pipeline themselves. there are a lot of adequate fuel supplies. nevertheless this speaks to the sort of attack that definitely could have big economic impacts, especially if it were larger and more coordinated. if you're looking towards the future, this is very eye opening and presents a real potential threat. >> to your point, larger and coordinated, who could be behind it? in your mind, could it be state-sponsored or could it be just rogue actors, outside or even inside this country?

>> a couple of different sources i've spoken to in the private cybersecurity community, robert lee from dragos, a couple of other sources, some government sources that prefer not to be named, have attributed this to a cyber criminal group out of eastern europe called darkside. there is no indication right now that state sponsorship is involved. nevertheless, it is the sort of attack that will benefit adversaries like russia who are probably looking at this incident today as an intelligence gathering opportunity, because this has laid bare real vulnerabilities in the way the u.s. transports essential fuel. that relationship between cyber criminal groups and the russian government is a really interesting one. but right now there's no attribution to a state group. it appears to be right now a cyber criminal group out of eastern europe. >> and i want to reiterate this is speculative, but this group darkside, the potential it could have to wreak havoc is how

great? what would be the motivation? literally just money, ransom? >> well, for the group darkside, that probably is. they have said they're motivated primarily by financial incentives. but different groups that use ransomware have different motivations too. the north korean government used ransomware to pay for very expensive weapons programs. the russian government has also attacked infrastructure with great agility in the past, particularly in ukraine in 2019 where they shut down power in the middle of winter. and they will often use ransomware or private groups as kind of a cover for their activity. again, there's no indication that that's exactly the case here, but there are always multiple potential motivations for an attack like this that really does expose vulnerabilities on a national scale. >> what do you think is the most vulnerable entity other than what we're seeing right now here

in america? >> well, there's a lot of concern about different power grid sectors and also, you know, when you get down to the micro level, block by block, different small grid entities, those might be vulnerable to this. this really showcases how much effort, how much emphasis has been placed on very specific key points of fuel. so that's something that is really worth noting here. the amount of pressure that a specific choke point can endure, in this case natural gas. i think that's something to really watch going forward. a lot of electric utilities have done a lot of good work in the last few years boning up their cyber defenses. this is a private entity. the question is how secure are some of these private entities that occupy an outsized place in things like infrastructure, moving power from one place to another in this country. >> and real quick, patrick, how long might this take to get

remedied, this particular incident? >> i would, again, speculate that this one would probably be fixed sooner rather than later. a lot of ransomware attacks that hit hospitals, schools, other entities like that, they tend to attack cash-strapped institutions and they can be part of a network of attacks. you just heard the commerce secretary say all eyes are on this. so i think that considering this carries about half the natural gas from texas to the east coast, i think you'll see them fix this sooner rather than later. but that's just a hope right now. >> patrick tucker, good to speak with you, thank you so much. when you saw derek chauvin handcuffed and walked out of a courtroom two weeks ago, you might have figured he's facing serious jail time. but something that happened this week may disrupt all of that. the real legal questions that may face a judge and what might weigh into his decision, next.

♪ pepto bismol coats and soothes your stomach for fast relief and get the same fast relief in a delightful chew with pepto bismol chews. ♪ it's grilled cheese time. ♪ ♪ yeah, it's time for grilled cheese. ♪ ♪ after we make grilled cheese, ♪ ♪ then we're eating grilled cheese. ♪ ♪ because it's time. ♪

♪ yeah. ♪ ♪ time for grilled cheese. ♪ (vo) nobody dreams in conventional thinking. it didn't get us to the moon. ♪ yeah. ♪ it doesn't ring the bell on wall street. or disrupt the status quo. t-mobile for business uses unconventional thinking to help you realize new possibilities. like our new work from anywhere solutions, so your teams can collaborate almost anywhere. plus customer experience that finds solutions in the moment. ...and first-class benefits, like 5g with every plan. network, support and value without any tradeoffs. that's t-mobile for business. if you wanna be a winner then get a turkey footlong from subway®. that's oven roasted turkey. piled high with crisp veggies. on freshly baked bread! so, let's get out there and get those footlongs. now at subway®, buy one footlong in the app, and get one 50% off. subway®. eat fresh.

oh when june-- hit that guy! yes! wait i don't remember that! it's in season 4 - don't tell me you haven't seen it! i watched season 3. you won't stay caught up for long unless you keep watching the best shows from hulu, peacock, starz, showtime, and hbo max, all year long. just say "watchathon" into your voice remote to add a channel or streaming service and stay caught up.

a federal grand jury has indicted derek chauvin and three other former minneapolis police officers for civil rights violations in the death of george floyd. george floyd's family attorney, benjamin crump, reacting to the new developments this weekend. >> you knew, watching that video, that they have violated george floyd's constitutional right to life when they prevented him from taking a breath for nine minutes. >> joining me now, cnbc contributor david henderson, civil rights attorney and former prosecutor. welcome back, david, good to see you. as we get into this, i'm curious how serious you think these charges are and how they'll play out in upcoming trials and how in fact this affects derek chauvin, because he's already been convicted. >> alex, it's best to start off overall with what these charges are doing. what these charges are doing is bringing this conversation back where it needs to be as it fits into broader discussions we're

having about policing in america. do people die at the hands of police every day the way george floyd did? thank god, no, they don't. but the circumstances that give rise to those types of deaths do occur every day. this goes back to something you and i talked about i think the last time we were together about the federal probes into civil rights violations in several cities now across the country. and in that regard, it's important to hold the police accountable when they violate people's civil rights. otherwise the circumstances that lead to deaths like george floyd's never get corrected. that's what these charges mean. >> how does this specific play out? i think there are a lot of people wondering, does this help derek chauvin? does it help him potentially get a new trial? because we know his attorneys requested one. he's done so, alleging eight abuses of discretion by the court including denying requests

for a change in venue, failing to sequester the jurors. and jury misconduct that may be related to a juror who participated in last summer's march on washington. does this help at all for a new trial? i'm curious what goes into a judge's decision when deciding how to proceed on this. >> that's a good question, alex. it doesn't help with regard to him getting a new trial. overall, it makes life more difficult for derek chauvin, not less difficult. it's important for people to keep in mind that you've got a state legal system and you've also got a federal legal system. right now, derek chauvin has been convicted under the state legal system. these charges he will face separately in the federal legal system. i know the question people normally have is, does this mean he will be looking at more time. no, it doesn't, because even if he's convicted in each system, the time will probably be served concurrently with regard to violations against george floyd. the reason it makes it harder

for derek chauvin is now you're giving prosecutors multiple bites at the apple in terms of how to convict him. the motion for a new trial is no surprise, that was always going to get filed. will there be some special briefing regarding jury misconduct, absolutely, but that motion was going to get filed no matter what. >> let me ask you about the jury misconduct, because it seemed like that jury convicted derek chauvin very quickly. there was no it's, and's, or but's about this. could the juror misconduct play into something that would have any effect on derek chauvin going forward, practically speaking? >> probably not. the most that comes of that is, i think judge cahill may allow a hearing to question this juror about whether he had a hidden agenda with regard to serving on the jury. to be honest with you, that only happens in the movies. when people lie in jury selection, it's normally to get out of jury duty, not to get on

the jury. if he had a hidden agenda, it's a long shot. i just don't see it happening. >> let's switch gears together and take a look at the bombshell report about trump's department of justice when obtained phone records for three "washington post" reporters who were investigating russia's activities during the election. does this happen often, is this a legitimate activity for doj? >> absolutely not, it's not a legitimate activity for the doj. i pray that it wasn't happening often in the trump administration. if anybody is going to ferret this out, it will be the current administration. the theme for this current era is people taking to the streets and demonstrating and the free

press reporting on what's going on. any attempt to shut them down has to be taken seriously. >> george conway writes, "it looks like giuliani is going to go true some things, like possibly being charged with a crime. worse, some people who might have tried to save him from that fate might have actually guaranteed it." that's what george conway is writing about. do you agree with it? >> i agree with what he said. i agree with regard to the fact that this poses problems on multiple fronts, political, legal, and those of common sense. the ones of common sense jump out to you first. the free piece of legal advice i would offer anyone is, don't turn your back on people who know all your secrets, which is exactly what seems to be happening here with giuliani. it's been such a farce the way this has been handled. as a lawyer you feel bad because it makes us all look bad in

terms of how we do our jobs. i think this will be yet one more issue to deal with in terms of the current administration and how they handle any number of topics. >> okay. david henderson, always good to chat with you, come see me again. thanks so much. it is a story that immediately captured headlines in new york city. you might think it has nothing to do with where you live. but wait, there is more to a time square shooting in broad daylight. a 4-year-old among the victims. and that incident sparked larger questions today across this country as the country emerges from covid-19. we look up to our heroes. idolizing them. mimicking their every move. and if she counts on the advanced hydration of pedialyte when it matters most... ...so do we. hydrate like our heroes.

- [announcer] meet the ninja foodi air fry oven. make family-sized meals fast. and because it's a ninja foodi, it can do things no other oven can, like flip away. the ninja foodi air fry oven, the oven that crisps and flips away. you're clearly someone who takes care of yourself. so why wait to screen for colon cancer? because when caught in early stages, it's more treatable. i'm cologuard. i'm noninvasive and detect altered dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers even in early stages.

tell me more. it's for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your prescriber or an online prescriber if cologuard is right for you. i'm on it. sounds like a plan. we made usaa insurance for members like martin. an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. ♪ usaa ♪ tide pods ultra oxi one ups the cleaning power of liquid. we're made for. can it one up whatever they're doing? for sure. seriously? one up the power of liquid, one up the toughest stains. any further questions? uh uh! one up the power of liquid with tide pods ultra oxi.

breaking news, everyone, disappointing word, just a short time ago, the horse that won this year's kentucky derby failed a post-race drug test. its hall of fame trainer bob baffert has been suspended from churchill downs. his horse tested positive for a steroid. he said he didn't know why the

horse would have tested positive, calling it a complete injustice. this is baffert's fifth horse to fail a drug test in the past year alone. churchill downs says in part the connections of medina spirit have the right to request a test of a split sample and we understand they intend to do so. to be clear, if the findings are upheld, medina spirit's results in the kentucky derby will be invalidated and mandaloun will be declared the winner. so far, no one has to return any winnings, in case you're worried about that. a wave of gun violence across the country this weekend left some dead and others injured. this as cities are trying to attract weary tourists after pandemic lockdowns. in new york's times square, three people were injured in gunfire. the first thing i did was text

my daughter, where are you? this strikes terror in everybody's hearts in the entire area, cori coffin. >> reporter: the place is so well-populated, times square. but it's not just happening in new york but happening in major cities and small cities across america in 2021. as you can see, new york's times square is back open after yesterday's shooting. it was very fearful for tourists out here yesterday at a time when they're bringing broadway back, restaurants are at 75% capacity. these tourists are being offered free vaccines. this is a big effort for the city. and the violence that the city has seen is really threatening these reopening plans. we have seen, alex, from april 2021, a 30% rise in violence in

the city versus april 2020. biden has called this an epidemic of gun violence, an international embarrassment. yesterday new york's police commissioner echoed that. >> how many kids have to be shot before we take this seriously? we just had a 1-year-old homicide cleared this week. how many more kids do we need to be shot before we realize that bad policies have consequences, and we need action, and we need policies regarding laws that have consequences. >> reporter: all right. the biden administration has urged congress to finally pass bipartisan gun reform. it comes as there were shootings yesterday in florida and maryland as well. and according to axios, since january to april, more than 700 people have been either hurt or killed in mass shootings in this country. here at this one that happened here, we know that those three victims are going to be okay. they're still looking for the

suspect. but like you said, alex, entirely alarming, especially as these cities across the country are trying to reopen and welcome back tourists. >> alarming every which way you look at it. cori coffin, thanks so much. it may be the craziest thing we've heard yet about donald trump's destructive grip on his party. it involves "the titanic" and lifeboats and there's even a more interesting twist. we'll share that in minutes. ctir kills plaque bacteria at the gum line to help keep the gum seal tight. new parodontax active gum repair toothpaste.

♪ ♪i've got the brains you've got the looks♪ ♪let's make lots of money♪ ♪you've got the brawn♪ ♪i've got the brains♪ ♪let's make lots of♪ ♪uh uh uh♪ ♪oohhh there's a lot of opportunities♪ with allstate, drivers who switched saved over $700. saving is easy when you're in good hands. allstate click or call to switch today. needles. essential for sewing, but maybe not for people with certain inflammatory conditions. because there are options. like an “unjection.” xeljanz. the first and only pill of its kind that treats moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, psoriatic arthritis, or moderate to severe ulcerative colitis

when other medicines have not helped enough. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections. before and during treatment, your doctor should check for infections, like tb and do blood tests. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b or c, have flu-like symptoms, or are prone to infections. serious, sometimes fatal infections, cancers including lymphoma, and blood clots have happened. taking a higher than recommended dose of xeljanz for ra may increase risk of death. tears in the stomach or intestines and serious allergic reactions have happened. needles. fine for some. but for you, there's a pill that may provide symptom relief. ask your doctor about the pill first prescribed for ra more than seven years ago. xeljanz. an “unjection.” [sfx: kids laughing] [sfx: bikes passing] [sfx: fire truck siren] onstar, we see them. okay. mother and child in vehicle. mother is unable to exit the vehicle. injuries are unknown. thank you, onstar.

♪ my son, is he okay? your son's fine. thank you. there was something in the road... it's okay. you're safe now. clara didn't believe gain scent beads could make her sheets smell amazing days later. boy was she surprised! and the more nights that go by, the more surprised she gets. her husband is surprised too. gain scent beads

it just bothers me that you have to swear fealty to the dear leader or you get kicked out of the party. it's sort of a circular firing squad where we're attacking members of our own party instead of focusing on solving problems. >> that was republican governor of maryland larry hogan, as donald trump's iron grip on republicans becomes clearer than ever. that is how "the new york times" describes new moves inside the party with republicans putting a vote on the calendar to remove congresswoman liz cheney from party leadership. and three states taking new steps from trump's playbook on elections. florida and texas advancing voting restrictions while arizona republicans lead a ballot audit reportedly involving looking for bamboo fibers. joining me now is politics reporter for "the new york times," lisa lehrer, who wrote that article.

lisa, a big welcome to you. as you point out here, all of this is happening as donald trump is in mar-a-lago, largely out of sight, with not many options for getting his message out to the public. so why is his grip on republicans appearing to get stronger? >> well, i think part of what's happening here is while donald trump's profile rating has sunk very low, historically low for a president ending his first term with the general public, his support is deeply ingrained in the republican base. i spend a lot of time to go local republican activists, county chairs, state party chairs, people who are the foot soldiers in the republican party, and what i can tell you is that they see donald trump's sort of pet issues, relitigating the 2020 election, for example, as the top priorities for their party moving forward, that they and many of them would like to see him run again. so donald trump has really remade the republican party and his hold on the party is quite strong. >> is there a bigger strategy at

play here with the former president staying largely out of sight, separate with what the major social media platforms are enforcing, of course. >> i think he really doesn't have much of an option, given that he has been banned from the major social media platforms. he doesn't really have a strong ability to get his message out there. part of what's happening here is a debate among elected officials in washington over the best way for the republican party to move forward. there is one side of the ledger which is folks like lindsey graham who argue that donald trump brought out millions of new republican voters, even though he lost the election, he received the second highest vote total of anyone other than joe biden, he was only topped by joe biden. lindsey graham and others argue that to keep those new voters in the republican fold, the party has to adapt to trumpism, essentially. then others like liz cheney point out that while republicans brought more voters out, they in

fact lost the election. if the party wants to grow in the future, they have to find a way to get these moderate suburban voters who flipped from republican to vote for joe biden in 2020 back in the republican fold, and that involves getting some distance from the former president. that's the political debate that's happening right now. at the grassroots level of the party, there's no debate, trumpism has won. >> given that description with the base, the grassroots, the foot soldiers, as you describe them, what does this mean going forward? will this be playbook, essentially the promotion of trumpism under the guys of trumpism, despite those who maybe flipped to joe biden last time and they need to get them back? where is that going to go? >> republicans can still do quite well in the midterms while really appeasing their base because of how a lot of the

redistricting and gerrymandering and particularly in the house, all of those districts are now fiercely conservative, the way the lines are drawn. but i do think, you know, in terms of some of the senate races in the midterms, you could see some fierce primaries between folks who are more aligned with trumpism and other lawmakers who may have put a little bit of distance or haven't been as vocal proponents of the president. so the party could be in for a rough primary season. we'll have to see how this all shakes out in the coming two years or so. >> let me get specific with you because i know you spoke with republican strategist sarah longwell who has conducted focus groups of trump voters for year s and she told you about some of what she found. what specifics did you learn? >> i think part of what's happened is the republican base has bought into a lot of the conspiratorial thinking and baseless claims the president has made. many of them, not all of them, i don't want to overgeneralize of course, but there is a sense

that something untoward happened in the 2020 election and perhaps the outcome of that election wasn't legitimate, which is really a big problem for democracy as a whole and for joe biden. the president of course bears some responsibility for the health of american democracy. it's really hard to push your agenda or even have a functioning democracy if some polling put it as high as 70% of the republican party question whether biden won in a legitimate way. there's no evidence for any of these claims and we have no reason in reality to think that anything that happened in the election was anything less than legitimate and that biden did not win and is not the president. but it's the belief that's become ingrained in the republican party base. >> extraordinary. from "the new york times," lisa lehrer, a great setup for the discussion that follows. don callaway, democratic strategist, susan del percio, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst, and david

jolly, former congressman from florida and an msnbc political contributor, welcome to all three of you. thank you for the time this holiday, especially you, david, with now double duty with the new baby. okay. david, you first, then. let's take a look at how congressman adam kinzinger described the republican party today. >> right now it's basically "the titanic." in the middle of this slow sink, we have a band playing on the deck, telling everybody it's fine, many while, donald trump's running around trying to find women's clothing to get on the first lifeboat. >> that last part notwithstanding, an accurate description? >> yeah, alex, i had to run through that a few times myself. adam was saying trump was going to jump in front of everybody else. >> yeah, i think that's what it meant. >> it took me a couple of times. look, adam's comments are absolutely right, it's kind of a

prelude to what we'll likely see on wednesday with liz cheney presumably being forced out. who knows, with a private ballot, but presumably liz cheney is on her way out as well. adam is exactly right, the party is going in a direction from which it seems hard to recover its own identity. electorally it remains strong in this moment but not strong enough to beat democrats in either the white house or the senate or the house races. i think the big question is, following wednesday, what does liz cheney do, what does adam kinzinger do? a number of my former colleagues will try to coalesce around kind of a document of principles. but the numbers just aren't there. today's republican party, the numbers by and large follow trumpism and will continue to follow trumpism in '22 and '24. what liz cheney and adam kinzinger do next will say a lot about what will happen. >> "the washington post" reports cheney has been willing to sacrifice her house leadership

position and try to push the party away from the former president. even if she's cast out of power in the house, she's made clear she will not stop, promising to take her argument against trump to the campaign trail in wyoming where he garnered 70% of the vote in 2020. she's told others that blocking trump from leading the party is a fight she sees as just beginning, no matter how wednesday's vote goes. susan, give me your take on all of that, what you think about her steadfastness in this, if you worry it's a lost cause. after all that's happened, do you think there's anything she can do to sway republicans away from trump? >> i don't think it's a lost cause. and i do applaud her efforts to keep speaking truth to power. and what's so amazing is that she of course is right on her political analysis of what happens to the republican party if donald trump keeps going out there and spreading the big lie. and we know she's right because look at georgia. people stayed home because

donald trump said you cannot trust the election results. all right, so democrats won. now, liz cheney is fighting on a bigger principle, and as far as that goes, i applaud her and i hope more republicans, you know, support her. but let's not forget, the party right now is at the state and local levels. and it is full of trumpism. it is full of extremism. and we are going to get -- things are going to get much worse before they get better at that level. we're going to see a lot more extreme candidates get the nomination, which could in fact put in jeopardy the republicans taking back the house in 2022, because all those swing seats they were able to hold onto in 2020, they're going to have more extreme candidates if they don't have the likes of gonzalez in ohio and kinzinger. this is the problem, they're not going to hold on to their power.

so i don't think that there's a win per se for liz cheney. but i do think she's on the right side of history. >> perhaps for principle. don, do you think this provides an opportunity or some kind of opening for democrats, could they use all this disarray to their advantage? >> we have to. and frankly, i don't think that we have properly been doing so over the course of the last year. frankly, most democrats are content to be on twitter simply making fun of the macabre circus that is the republican party. like your previous guest said, the implosion of the republican party is not only a problem for joe biden, but it's a problem for democrats and a problem for all americans because all americans depend upon people believing in the integrity of not only individual elections but our democratic processes. so if 70% of republicans think that donald trump was somehow cheated or that joe biden is somehow not a legitimate president, that's a problem for me as a staunch partisan democrat, that's a problem for people on the streets who don't care about politics, because that is the beginning of the

devolution of the rule of law. so to answer your question, democrats should be not only worrying about pushing partisan priorities and building democratic infrastructure like i try to stress every week but we should be worried about general nonpartisan messaging to restore faith in democracy. we can never forget donald trump is a salesman, a carnival barker, and we have not adequately countered those messages with messages about a strong democracy on the other side. >> the question i really want to ask is, that letter that has been written, something that's been signed by a number of republicans, i know myles taylor is one of the leaders of that, potentially announcing something, the formation of an entity to challenge the republican direction as it is right now, does the gop have a

plausible way forward to could embrace trumpism and true republicanism, traditional republicanism? would that work in any way? >> well, i am very familiar with what miles is doing and the organization. and they're taking a multipronged attack to the situation which is to say there is no simple solution. we have to keep fighting for our principles and go where there's opportunity to either grow with that philosophy or perhaps get involved in races or other things. but it is important to keep having that voice heard, because it resonates with others. and there is a group on the ground that doesn't buy into trumpism but feels they don't have a home at the grassroots level. so this organization i think is going to do something tremendous by offering people a place to go and using their vast network. >> and to what effect, david? how successful can it be, this

group? >> i applaud what my former colleagues are doing. but ultimately i don't think it will be successful, because i don't think the numbers are there. even if you get to a post-donald-trump gop, it's still the party of kevin mccarthy and josh hawley, and marjorie taylor greene and ted cruz and the large majority in the house and senate who voted to undermine our election. i applaud them from trying to save the gop from trying to inject some type of principled standard bearer caucus. i don't think it's going to work. i don't think the party is worth saving and a new party won't attract enough from the republicans. i'm part of the s.a.n.d. party. we're trying to focus on a party is a big tent party around values of problem-solving, accountability and so forth. we believe the numbers are there in that space. but i don't think the numbers are there for either a new party or new caucus within the gop. >> so, don, you are a voting

expert. does a split gop like this turn out to be gold for democrats? >> it's good for democrats but democrats have to continue doing what we're doing, which is registering voters, communicating and retaining them in the off-cycles. absolutely, listen, we live in a two-party system, at least throughout our lifetimes. there are reasons that you can have multiple fractions of parties within the democratic side in a nontwo-party system. aoc doesn't exist in the same party as a senator joe manchin. for right now in this two-party system, we'll take what we've got. i just said we can't just take this moment to laugh at republicans but electorally, yes, it is a very, very good thing for democrats if we're able to seize upon this moment and continue to build our momentum in terms of our own infrastructure. >> good to see you all. don, i hope you're going out, wearing that blazer somewhere. that thing is bold. it's great. just saying. >> thank you. the push to recall california governor gavin newsom

is being described as wild and a circus. we're live in san francisco after the break. the latest in that effort. the latest in that effort. flow-ers and the wedgie-pickers with a pad made like no other up to zero leaks because it locks blood in up to zero bunching because it flexes no worries just always flexfoam introducing fidelity income planning. we look at what you've saved, what you'll need, and help you build a flexible plan for cash flow that lasts, even when you're not working, so you can go from saving... to living. ♪ let's go ♪ feeling stressed in your skin? so you can go from saving... to living. not with new olay retinol body wash. which improves skin 3x better. from dry and stressed, to bright and smooth. so, i can feel my best in my skin. olay body. fearless in my skin. [sizzling] i may not be able to tell time, but i know what time it is.

[whispering] it's grilled cheese o'clock. as your business changes, the united states postal service is changing with it. with e-commerce that runs at the speed of now. next day and two-day shipping nationwide, and returns right from the doorstep. it's a whole new world out there. let's not keep it waiting. up at 2:00am again? tonight, try pure zzzs all night. it's a whole new world out there. unlike other sleep aids, our extended release melatonin helps you sleep longer. and longer. zzzquil pure zzzs all night. fall asleep. stay asleep. (brother) hi sis! (sister) you're late! (brother) fashionably late. (sister) we can not be late. (brother) there's a road right there. (brother) that's a cat. wait, just hold madi's headpiece. (sister) no. seriously? (brother) his name is whiskers. (bride) what happened to you? whose cat is that? (brother) it's a long story. (sister) oh my gosh. (farmer) whiskers! there you are! (avo) the subaru crosstrek. the adventurous s-u-v for

adventurous people. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. here's some new video of what appears to be debris from the chinese rocket returning to earth. this clip was taken by the international astronomy center at the uae. people in jordan, amman and saudi arabia could also see the debris and there are no immediate reports of damage. from there to california, some new questions about what comes next as it appears increasingly likely that governor gavin newsom will be facing a recall election. if comes after what the l.a. times calls a wild wild and surreal week on the campaign trail. one candidate brought a bear from alaska to sacramento and caitlyn jenner held an interview

from a private airplane hangar. meanwhile, as more candidates emerge, the new data shows highest support for newsom's recall comes from california's rural conservative counties. let's go to nbc's scott cohen in san francisco for us. what are you hearing about all this? tell us where it stands. >> reporter: sure. alex, the odds for the republicans are pretty long, as you might expect in this very blue state. that data you referred to, that's based on the petition significants for the recall coming from those republican pockets. think places like fresno and san diego. the republicans are going to have a tough time matching the heavily populated areas like san francisco and los angeles. there's this field of candidates. it is going to be huge. already we have a handful of declared candidates. of course you've heard about caitlyn jenner, the former mayor of san diego, the former congressman, this being

california, there's an adult film actress and billboard model. john cox, a businessman, who was the nominee against newsom in 2018. he's campaigning with a brown bear from a wildlife refuge here in california. it did not exactly go well. kind of went viral in not the best way in a state with a lot of animal rights activists. he lost handily to governor newsom in 2018. speaking of viral, there's covid-19, which was one of the big drivers for this recall effort. things have turned around considerably in california. for example, here in san francisco, nearly 75% of the population has had at least one shot. so, here's the polling that we have. this is a couple months old, but already boding well for governor newsom. 56% say they are against recalling him. just 40% saying they are in favor of it. having said that, remember what the ballot question is. it's a two-part question. should governor newsom be

recalled? if so, who should replace him? he's not on that ballot. all you have to do is get the most votes if they can get the first question passed. experts are saying for governor newsom, this is not a done deal. >> this is it the most democratic of direct democracy in institutions we have in california. and so, in that environment, you know, you can see that he might get recalled because majority is against him but a small share of the population may support one or another candidate. >> reporter: still experts say it is governor newsom's probably to lose. we expect this recall election to happen probably some time in the fall. alex? >> okay. scott cohen, thank you so much from san francisco. democrat james clyburn explicitly took issue with something mitch mcconnell said this past week. you'll want to hear how congressman clyburn tackled what

one of the big republican voices had to say. had to say this is wealth. ♪ ♪ this is worth. that takes wealth. but this is worth. and that - that's actually worth more than you think.

don't open that. wealth is important, and we can help you build it. but it's what you do with it, that makes life worth living. principal. for all it's worth. start your day with secret. secret stops sweat 3x more than ordinary antiperspirants. the new provitamin b5 formula is gentle on skin. with secret, outlast anything! no sweat. secret [tv announcer] come on down to our appliance superstore where we've got the best deals on refrigerators, microwaves, gas ranges and grills. and if you're looking for... before nexium 24hr, anna could only imagine a comfortable night's sleep without frequent heartburn waking her up. now, that dream... . ...is her reality. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts, for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn?