each state and joaquin castro will talk to me about the voting restrictions happening in texas. the purge within the gop. why the party is trying to oust liz cheney this week. and the director for covid response, andy slavitt is here to answer my questions about the guidance on masks and vaccines. in this movie, a black man has to relive a fatal police encounter over and over. the writer and director trayvon free is here. good evening and happy mother's day. i'm mehdi hasan. the republican party is working hard so that come 2024, it can rig the next presidential election in its favor. let's not beat around the bush. that's what's going on here.

first, assuming they win back the house next year, gop can block the certification of the 2024 results if they don't like them. but that means also getting rid of any republicans in congress who aren't on board. if you voted in favor of impeaching donald trump, if you said the election wasn't stolen, the republicans are coming for you. ask liz cheney, who is about to lose her leadership position. ask mitt romney, who got booed by republicans back in utah. ask anthony gonzalez who was censured by his own state party. we'll talk more about the liz cheney angle to this story later with linda chavez. the second element to this gop strategy for 2024 is even more crucial and disturbing. an all-out assault on voting rights and on election officials at the state level. trump is encouraging the purge of state election officials, who defied him by, you know, following the election laws in their states. think brad raffensperger.

and in 40 out of 50 states, there have been over 350 voting bills introduced. let's look at what they're actually doing or trying to do state by state. in arkansas, they're eliminating automatic voter registration. in alaska, a new law eliminating curbside voting. in california, new restrictions on vote by mail. in colorado, they tried and failed to restrict mail-in voting. connecticut, new restrictions on absentee applications. in florida, the governor signed a law criminalizing handing out food and water to voters in line and reduction of drop boxes. in georgia, it gets rid of mobile voting units and limits the power of the secretary of state. in hawaii, trying for new restrictions on mail-in voting. in illinois, new obstacles to mail-in ballots. in indiana, new voter i.d. law. in kansas, they criminalized the

collecting of absentee ballots. in kentucky, they tried and failed to reduce the number of early voting days. in massachusetts, they're trying to introduce new photo i.d. requirements. maryland new restrictions on the collection of absentee ballots. in maine, another law trying to add photo i.d. requirements. in michigan, they're trying to ban the secretary of state from mailing out ballots but providing a link to them on a website. in mississippi, a failed attempt to purge the voter role of noncitizens. in missouri, a new bill to eliminate any requirement by the state to inform the public about those new rules. in north carolina, there's an attempt to restrict absentee ballots. in nebraska, new photo i.d. requirements. new hampshire, they want to make it easier for officials to purge voter roles. in new jersey, suspension of automatic voter registration. in new mexico they tried and failed to get rid of same-day

voting. in oklahoma, they want to amend the constitution to restrict absentee ballots. in pennsylvania, new curbs on mail-in voting, and in rhode island, new curbs on mail-in voting. in south carolina, new curbs on mail-in voting. in tennessee, an attempt to reduce absentee voting. in texas, the state house just passed a bill to restrict mail-in voting and empower poll watchers. in utah, they allowed the purging of voter rolls. in virginia, a failed attempt to ban the use of ballot boxes. in wisconsin, an attempt to end absentee ballot drop boxes. and in wyoming, they passed a new voter i.d. law. whew! so congratulations to delaware, ohio, and vermont. the only three states in the union, according to the brennan center, that haven't had any voter suppression bills introduced so far. in the other 47, the majority of

the 361 bills haven't yet been passed into law. they can still be defeated. we can still stop them. yeah, i said we. we as in small d democrats who care about small d democracy. as a journalist i'm not here to speak for a party but i am damn well here to speak for democracy, voting rights. sorry, there's no both sides when it comes to democracy. you can't sit on the fence or be neutral when our voting rights are under assault. i've said it before and i'll say it again. as journalists, we should have a bias toward democracy. as citizens, you should have a buy as, towards democracy, regardless of whether you're a republican, democrat or independent. democracy is under threat. what would you say if you saw this in another country? the defeated party and defeated president, inciting an insurrection, trying to remove the officials who stood in their way.

what would you call it? authoritarianism? fascism? what do we call what's going on in america right now? there are not two sides to this. for more, congressman joaquin castro of texas. also a member of the congressional hispanic caucus. thank you for joining me on the show tonight. friday, as we mentioned, texas republicans moved one step closer to passing sweeping voter restrictions. i want to play you what happened when, during the debate, one of the main sponsors was questioned about the bill's language. have a listen. >> what was your motivation for using that term, purity at the ballot box? that's a specific set of words that has a lot of meaning in state history. >> what gives us authority to do anything on this issue? and that's the provision that does that. and so that would be why. >> did you look at the history before using that word? >> no, no. i'm not familiar with the -- >> you may have missed it, then. that provision was drafted specifically to disenfranchise black people, black voters, in fact, following the civil war. did you know that? >> no.

that's -- i'm sorry to hear that. >> congressman, whether or not we believe his answer, it didn't stop the bill from passing in the texas house. what is your view about the true intent of this legislation in texas? >> well, in texas and in other places, you have a republican party that under donald trump moved toward authoritarianism and was moving toward fascism, quite honestly. and those are folks that are doing everything they can to hang on to power. the way they're trying to hang on to power is not by being better about governing or make more convincing arguments or win over voters who disagree with them. voters that voted against them and that's why they lost the presidency, the senate and the house. their answer to hang on to power is to make it harder for the people who disagree with them to go out and vote. that's what we're seeing in texas and across the country as you displayed.

>> given what's happened in georgia and florida where bills were passed into law, is there anything people can still do in texas to stop this? would you be able to call for a corporate boycott of your own state? >> yeah. there's a few things people should do. the time to speak up is now. the bill has not been finally passed through the legislature. they've got to do what's called a conference committee bill that gets a final vote in both chambers and then the governor has to decide to sign that bill. the people of texas need to speak up now, but also the business community that is part of the economic lifeblood of this state, these business leaders to need to speak up. they know that this is wrong. they know that this is fundamentally unfair and our elections, which have been controlled by republican election officials for years were fair in free elections. the only reason they're doing this is to harm people and to keep certain people from voting. >> so, would you support a boycott of your state if this

fundamentally unfair law passes? >> i mean, look, i'm from texas. i'm a san antonion. i don't want to see my state hurt. but at the same time we need people to speak up now because my fear is that's exactly what will happen, voices calling for events not to be located in san antonio or dallas or houston or other places in texas. >> at the federal level, this is what senator ted cruz of texas had to say to someone who he thought was a supporter but was an undercover camo-wearing member of a left leaning group.

>> cruz responded by tweet that i led the fight by votes in the senate not by violence. that clip still shows he doesn't accept the election result, even now. >> you're absolutely right. it's very clear that ted cruz, as we get closer to the 2024 election, assuming he doesn't just give the prize to donald trump, nomination to donald trump before the nomination even starts, it's clear that he's going to trumpet how he was, you know, fighting the election results, basically how he didn't accept the election results. he seems to be in this competition with josh hawley of missouri to be the standard bearer about who was able to deny that the election was actually fair. >> yeah. and it's weird when we talk about bipartisanship.

i'm not sure how you can work with senators who don't even accept election realities. just changing the subject for a moment before i let you go. you're on the house foreign affairs committee, i know. the violence in israel and forced displacement from families in their home in east jerusalem, quote, is wrong, unacceptable and illegal, you said. you will said that the biden administration should stand up for palestinian rights, a welcomed call but how, congressman? are you willing to call for conditioning of u.s. aid to israel? anything beyond rhetoric? >> look, as you know, the united states has been a very good friend to israel and israel has been a very good friend of ours for a few generations and the united states has a lot of sway with the government of israel and they should use that relationship to get israel to stop allowing these forced evictions, endorsing these forced evictions. as i said, i believe it's wrong. i don't believe that that should be going on. i don't believe there should be any united states money that is used for that purpose. >> congressman joaquin castro, we'll have to leave it there. thank you so much for your time tonight. appreciate it. >> thank you.

still to come, a story of a young black man stuck in an enes capable cycle of police brutality. the director joins me to discuss it. picking trump over truth. first, richard lui is here with breaking news. hey, richard. >> hey, mehdi. investigation into the cyber attack that shut down a major u.s. oil pipeline. sources tell nbc a leading suspect is a new russian criminal group known as dark side. early signs indicate a criminal scheme here but not an attack by a nation state. commerce secretary gina raimondo told cbs today it's been an all-hands-on-deck to restart the pipeline. it runs from the gulf coast in texas all the way up to the northeast. 2.5 million barrels of gasoline

and other fuels travel through that pipeline each and every day. it's responsible for half of the east coast fuel supply and a prolonged shutdown could lead to a fuel shortage and price increase. joshua johnson will have more next hour. more of the "mehdi hasan show" after this break. obsession has many names, this is ours. the lexus is. all in on the sports sedan. lease the 2021 is 300 for $369 a month for 36 months. experience amazing, at your lexus dealer. i brought in ensure max protein, with thirty grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! ( sighs wearily ) here, i'll take that! ( excited yell ) woo-hoo! ensure max protein. with thirty grams of protein, one-gram of sugar, and nutrients to support immune health! ( abbot sonic ) limu emu... and doug. and nutrients to support immune health! so then i said to him, you oughta customize your car insurance with liberty mutual, so you only pay for what you need. oh um, doug can we talk about something

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as the house gop prepares to boot liz cheney from her gop spot, the cheney vote hasn't even happened yet but on fox house minority leader kevin mccarthy seemed ready to declare victory and unite his party. >> to defeat nancy pelosi and the socialist agenda, we need to be united. >> that's not sitting well with the dwindling number of, quote, unquote, moderates in the party, who reject donald trump's big lie. >> this idea of let's put our differences aside and be unified, you cannot unify truth

with lies. >> it just bothers me that you have to swear feelty to the dear leader or get kicked out of the party. it's a circular firing squad where we're attacking members of our own party instead of focusing on solving problems. >> on the right, definition of moderate no longer refers to ideology, it's simply not someone who accepts the 2020 results and the gop believes tha those people need to be banished. all that matters is loyalty to their dear leader. cheney's likely replacement, elise stefanik is a perfect example of this. she was once considered a moderate and even voted against trump's tax cuts. now she's being promoted because she's boosting the big lie. for more on this, we're joined by a conservative who announced she had left the gop. linda chavez served in the reagan white house as a public liaison. she is now a fervent critic of her former party. thanks for coming on the show tonight. your former boss, ronald reagan,

famously said i didn't leave the democratic party, the party left me. you've left the gop now. why won't others follow you out of the door? what's left in that party for a mitt romney, who is getting booed by his own supporters? >> well, i think there is still the hope that at some point donald trump will fade from the scene. he doesn't show any desire to do so. there was some interesting polling data that the republican party itself did this week. liz cheney brought it to the fore. it showed in those congressional districts that lift democrat in 2018 and 2020 that donald trump is not popular. his unfavorable ratings are higher than his favorable ratings and if they really want to win back control of the house, they've got to turn those districts back to the republican party and sticking with donald trump and his big lie is not the way to do that. >> so, i'm glad you mentioned

that poll. senator lindsey graham goes around saying the gop can't grow without trump. he tries to make what he thinks is a strategic argument. as you point out liz cheney was concerned gop operatives were hiding polling data from the members that showed trump's unfavorable ratings minus 15 points in key swing districts plus a new poll showing him 20 points under water among registered voters. how can the party grow with trump? linda, if you had to make a bet, if you had to make a guess, the house gop, how many of them actually believe that trump helps them win elections? how many of them are just going along out of fear or cowardice? >> i think the great majority of them are going along out of fear and that fear puzzles me as well. donald trump doesn't have the am big microphone he used to have. he doesn't get to go into the white house press room whenever he wants to, give a speech and

have everybody focused on it. he doesn't have twitter. he doesn't have facebook. he has this great, pathetic new website he set up that i frankly could have put together for him and i'm not exactly a tech genius. and, you know, it just mystifies me why it is that people are shaking in their boots. >> such a good point, especially when he lost them the white house, senate and the house. i think the first time in a century to do that, or something like that. liz cheney has been -- it's her moment in the liberal spotlight. people on the other side of the aisle are praising her, rightly, for her stance against her own party. but what about the argument that liz cheney herz isn't a stranger to, quote, unquote, big lies? she backed the iraq war. maureen dowd is out with a new article "the times" saying cheney had no trouble swimming in fox news bile. thanks to that kind of reasoning, we ended up with a

president who fermented an attack on the nation at home. surely you agree that the republican party didn't just wake up crazy under donald trump but they embraced trump because they were already crazy. and moderates like liz cheney kind of helped make it that way. >> there is a problem with those who did not denounce the birther conspiracy. that, to me, was so nakedly racist and wrong, and certainly john mccain did, and others of us did, quite loudly and consistently. so, she didn't denounce the birther lie, then i think that's bad. but the fact is, you know, there are conservative policy differences. i backed the iraq war. a lot of us backed the iraq war. it turned out not quite as we hoped it would. i don't think it was based on a big lie. i disagree with that. all the intelligence from not just the united states but from other european and other countries suggested that saddam

hussein had weapons of mass destruction. turned out he didn't. i don't think that saddam hussein knew that he didn't have weapons of mass destruction. social policy, whole host of different policies. but one thing i believe in is democracy. and when you undercut faith in elections and faith in accepting the role of elections, deciding who gets to be president, then i think you've done something so fundamentally wrong, so unamerican that i think you can't be part of any legitimate party. >> i'm glad you say that. that's why i wanted to have you on the show tonight. you and i can agree on that. on iraq, we will disagree. i happen to believe that the bush administration that liz cheney was part of did tell a lot of lies about the

intelligence and misrepresent it. with democracy under threat, liz cheney is doing the right thing. the problem is, not enough republicans are doing the right thing. you once tweeted last year about country over party. that's the problem, right? republicans who went on and on about patriotism don't put country over party. >> that's right. i don't like to attack anyone's patriotism. back when i was in the good graces of the republican party and people would attack democrats for being unpatriotic, i always found that offensive. we may have different ideas of what it means to support our country, but when you question whether elections in the united states are free and fair, and when you refuse to accept how those elections turned out, that truly is unpatriotic and i think that is just -- that's where we are right now. that's the lie that donald trump keeps telling. liz cheney, you know -- kevin mccarthy said i wish she would keep quiet. why does she keep talking about this? she keeps talking about it, because donald trump keeps talking about it.

>> very true. >> and the other nut cases in the republican party keep talking about it. >> it's a very good point. someone said liz cheney should just shut up but they never say the same thing about donald trump. >> right. >> linda chavez, thank you so much for your time tonight. up next, jp morgan chase's ceo jamie dimon says he doesn't want the president throwing money around to solve problems. great advice from someone who took taxpayer dollars to save his own bank. my 60-second rant coming up. losing a tooth didn't stop you but your partial can act like a bacteria magnet, putting natural teeth at risk. new polident propartial helps purify your partial and strengthens and protects natural teeth. so, are you gonna lose another tooth? not on my watch! facing leaks takes strength. so here's to the strong, who trust in our performance and comfortable long-lasting protection. because your strength is supported by ours.

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during business hours. welcome back. it's time for the 60-second rant. start the clock. the ceo of jp morgan chase launched an attack on biden's infrastructure plan, saying he would like an itemized list what

it will be spent on. that's exactly what a spending bill is and includes but dimon says just throwing money doesn't work. he added the government should say if you're going to give me your money i'm going to be a good steward of it. is he having a laugh? did he provide us the taxpayer with an itemized list when he got a bailout in 2008 after a crisis that banks like his helped cause? he didn't have a problem with spending money then, did he? did he forget the billion dollars his bank paid or the $5 billion fine he paid in 2012 foreclosure abuses, or the $13 billion fine, second biggest bank settlement that jp morgan had to pay over toxic mortgages? are we supposed to forget all of that just because he has? when i hear out of touch, hypocritical billionaires running their mouths, two words come to mind. just two words. wealth tax. next, white house senior adviser for the covid response, andy slavitt joins me. we'll talk vaccine concerns,

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allstate. click or call for a quote today. despite more than 150 million americans partly vaccinated against covid-19, the white house is ramping up a campaign against vaccine hesitancy.

as you can see, the number of those getting the vaccine is dropping. this week, dipping below 2 million doses administered a day. in fact acres number of states are asking the government to stop sending doses, as their stockpiles overflow due to falling demand. joe biden is revising targets, saying he hopes to get 70% of adults vaccinated by july 4th is a pipe dream. does that mean we're doomed to wearing that mask? >> i think you're going to be seeing that as more people get vaccinated. the cdc will be, almost in real-time, george, updating their recommendations and guidelines but, yes, we do need to start being more liberal as we get more people vaccinated. >> confused? let's get some clarity. joining me now, white house covid response director andy slavitt there. thanks for coming on the show tonight. you know from spending time on the hell site that is twitter, there is much confusion about

when and where to wear masks, especially after the latest cd guidelines came out. you have different state and city guidelines and now dr. fauci is saying we could lift indoor mask restrictions in the very near future. how is that possible when only one in three americans are fully vaccinated? has the messaging on this issue just added to the confusion out there? >> good to be with you tonight. look, step one, everybody get vaccinated. if you're not sure about getting vaccinated, talk to your doctor. talk to your pharmacist. i think they will show you the data which shows you should get vaccinated. if you do, i agree with dr. fauci. there is increasingly going to be the world much more close to normal. the cdc has already said if you're outside or you're inside around people who are already vaccinated, you don't need to wear a mask. i think there are some occasions where they are still holding on to the indoor mask policy. but as dr. fauci said, you know,

where it's sort of coasting through moments in time but those things will be lifted, i think, over time. most importantly, life is a lot safer for you when you're vaccinated and that's where, i think, people need to be headed. if we do our jobs right by the fourth of july, we'll be in a very different shape. >> life is a lot better if you're vaccinated and i'm the first to say this administration has done a fantastic job in getting the number of vaccinated people up in the short time he has been in office. here's what i don't get on relaxing mask indates indoors. just this week the cdc announced new guidance on how this virus is airborne. indoor workplaces and schools were allowed to open without adequate aerosol or proper ventilation. people continue to obsess over surfaces or disinfectants. a major failure by the cdc. how do you make sure, andy, americans now focus much more on ventilation and on the air and less on disinfecting surfaces?

>> you know, it's a great point. i think to be fair to scientists over the past year, you know, they were telling us what they knew and what they could prove with data. and we didn't necessarily have a cdc that was reliable. one of the reasons why you're seeing a cdc that's a bit more cautious about making its adjustments is because they want to make sure that they're getting the science right. they don't want to have to go one step forward and two steps back. it's important for people to understand exactly what you're saying. if you're vaccinated virtually you're safe doing almost anything. i want to get on an airplane, i'll put on a mask. if i'm in a poorly ventilated situation, particularly around people who are unvaccinated that's a different situation as well. for the most part, we know that the chances of getting covid and spreading it when you're vaccinated are almost zero. they're very close to zero. and that's why i think the more people that do that, the more that data will come in, the more

the cdc will make the point that even indoors, masks won't be required any longer. that's something we have to look forward to. >> so let's talk about vaccination rates, as you rightly point out. it's all about getting vaccinated. number of americans willing to get a shot in the arm is falling drastically as you know. is the idea of reaching herd immunity in the u.s. now dead and buried? >> well, let me start with this. for those of us, i think like you and like me, to whom getting a vaccine is something we knew we would do without hesitation. people who take a bit longer to make that decision are a little bit confusing, right? there are people who take a little bit longer because they want to consider a bunch of facts and don't understand how people could rush to make a decision to get vaccinated. neither one is necessarily wrong. what i want to say about the declining numbers is while we're doing about 2 million people a day, 6% of the adult population over the course of a week, you know, it will be slower.

but there are people to whom getting a vaccine is something that it's either not as high a priority because they may be younger and they may want something that will be easier, or perhaps they need to have questions answered and get reliable information. if we're patient, we will get up there. in terms of herd immunity, my sense is that in some communities we're already reaching a point, san francisco will be an example where you have 900,000 people, a large portion of the population vaccinated. and you're getting about 20 cases a day. that's close to herd immunity. other parts of the country, parts of the southeast, where you have 30, 40, 50% of the population vaccinated, in those situations, they'll be vulnerable to new outbreaks. >> yeah. and in terms of -- i just want to talk about india briefly. numbers unimaginably awful, more than 400,000 cases for the fourth day in a row. you're expecting new data on how our vaccines in the u.s. can

protect against indian variants so what can you tell me briefly about that? >> well, first of all, our hearts go out to people in india. we need to do everything we can. here in the u.s. if we haven't taken a vaccine, we need to remember that that could be us but for our vaccination program. we need to do whatever we can to get vaccinated and help the rest of the globe. yes, i think we're beginning to see some data. we'll see some studies this week about our vaccines and how they do hold up against the indian variant. and i think from what i'm seeing, we're going to see they do offer good measures of protection, maybe some diminishment from some of the others but still fairly strong. i'm pretty optimistic. we'll look forward to seeing that data this week. >> that's good to hear. before i let you go, the administration announced it would be backing the waiver for intellectual property for vaccines to make it easier for

poorer countries to make their own. a bit late but better late than never. it needs unanimous support from all member states. germany and france are not on board. the eu is not keen. can you guarantee tonight that the white house not just say it supports a waiver but will get other countries to waive wto obligations on pat temperatures, industrial designs to save lives? >> we are in a once-in-a-century pandemic. if we let things like intellectual property rights and patents prevent us from bringing vaccines at a rapid pace to poor countries, we ought to be ashamed of ourselves. i'm confident we can work together with other countries across the globe, with pharmaceutical companies who, after all, have the knowledge, manufacturing capability and with all the people we need to distribute vaccines into africa, into haiti, into southeast asia,

to get this right. we have to produce over 10 billion vaccines. >> but to overcome european opposition -- understood. americans will work to overcome european opposition, right? >> yeah. our ambassador, who runs -- who will run these negotiations, tech-base negotiations. these do not happen overnight. i'm certainly no trade expert. i think the policy position of joe biden and the ambassador was very, very clear. and i don't think there is any hedging whatsoever about ip rights and the ability to move forward. we're going to do everything we can to get these vaccines into the developing world as quickly as possible. >> i'm very glad to hear you say that, andy. i'm sure many of our viewers will, too. thank you for being with us this evening. appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. coming up, award-winning

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viking. exploring the world in comfort... once again. this year's oscars made history with the most diverse group of nominees yet. one of the winners from that ceremony was the short film "two distant strangers," a young black man stuck in an inescapable cycle of police brutality. >> hey! hey! ♪♪ >> 100 times? >> so far, yeah. >> what now? you let him keep killing you forever? >> one way or another, i'm getting home to my dog. >> for that film's writer and director, the subject matter was all too familiar. almost ten years ago, police

burst into his home, guns drawn. they said they were serving a warrant and forced him on to his knees. the only problem? they had the wrong home. after the murder of george floyd, he channeled his experience and that of so many others into this film. after the break, travon free joins me to talk about police violence and push for reform. plus at the top of the hour in "the week with joshua johnson," he's joined by dr. anthony fauci, answering your viewer questions. tune in for that. we'll be back with travon free after this short break.

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president biden's may 20th deadline on police reform is actively coming. according to new reporting, a groum of bipartisan lawmakers reached a consensus on some issues. this morning representative jim clyburn cautioned democrats against letting imperfection be the enemy of progress. >> i would never sacrifice good on the altar of perfect. i know what the bill will be. i want to see good legislation. and i know sometimes you have to compromise. >> police violence was the subject of my next guest's academy award winning short film "two distance strangers." a young black man is forced to relive a fatal police encounter over and over again. joining me now is trayvon free,

author and director. thank you for coming on the show and congratulations on your big oscar win. >> thank you. thank you for having me. i appreciate it. >> in your film, there's a section where the protagonist tries to talk to the police officer and explain his situation. no spoilers, but it doesn't work out in the end. do you think the police forces in this country are too far gone for quote unquote reform? >> yeah, you know, i think -- i think there is -- when you look at where the police departments are now and you look at the way police unions protect their behavior, i think they are, you know, pretty far gone past reform. i think we're now looking at ways that we can, you know, work with what we have. but in terms of the way that every type of reform is rebuffed, when it's put forward, i don't know what else is there to do. i feel like at some point, we have to start considering what it looks like in some instance

to possibly start over. >> yeah. starting over. but it sounds so radical, people run away from that idea. the film was in part inspired by the murder of george floyd. what was your reaction when that guilty verdict came in? >> it was a big sigh of relief, because, you know, i was bracing myself for, you know, the opposite. and that's kind of the position we found ourselves in a lot of times in this country when as black americans we're awaiting the verdict of these trials where we have seen so many police officers kill so many unarmed and innocent black people. and so we know that 99% of police officers are never charged for killing people. and so when i was waiting for that verdict to be read, you know, i was hopeful and -- but i was prepared for it to not be a

reflection of the accountability that needed to be had for derek chauvin after what we saw on video. >> yes. what we all saw. and your film ends with this long scroll of people, who lost their lives at the hands of police. so i wonder, what do you make of what congressman jim clyburn said this morning? should progressives push for a perfect deal or is just any deal needed at this point to stop that list from continuing to grow? >> no. i think he's right. we can't let the perfect be the enemy of good. this is a long fight. we don't expect police reform to happen overnight. but there are things we can do tomorrow, like making police killings a violation of use of force policies. and i think if we take, you know, the position that we have, when we look at the landscape of our country and where we are with, you know, policing, i think we can get to a point

where over a period of time we can get to the most perfect version of the thing that we can have, because at the end oh of the day, we know that people, you know, people feel there is a need for police, but i think we also have to look at the fact that the police as they exist today are killing a lot of black people and a lot of unarmed people. and we have to figure out a way to stop that from happening. it can't be a thing that we just allow to be the american way. >> very well put. before i let you go, i want to talk about the academy awards themselves. first, what did you make of being at the pandemic era ceremony with all the restrictions, was that weird? >> it was a little weird. there was so few people. i'm used to seeing the oscars and there's hundreds of people everywhere. in this particular case, it felt like a cocktail party with a few people. it was pretty cool. but it was very -- it had a

little bit of weirdness to it. >> it was weird, it was. and it's no secret that the oscars has diversity problem. this year they had the most diverse set of nominees yet. we saw people like yourself picking up awards. we saw the first asian woman win an award. do you think this year was an anomaly, or are the seed there is for lasting change in hollywood? >> you know, it looks like this year might be the beginning of a turning point for the academy, because it starts with who you let in, right? the people that make up the body, that make up the voters who choose, you know, who gets nominated, as that body becomes more and more diverse, you'll start to see more oscars that look like this past year's oscars. i'm hopeful that's a trend and not just a blip and we don't see the next five years the oscars go back to what it looks like when oscars so white became a

thing. >> trayvon, if a white conservative were to come up to you and say you're obsessed over diversity, it's art, why does it matter what color the director is, what would you say to them? >> i would say it matters because the person telling the story has a direct connection to what that story looks like and how it reflects the identity of the people. so for decades we watched stories be told by white people and white directors and no matter what color we are, we identified with those stories because there's something beyond the color of the person, obviously, that's telling that story, but it's necessary to have people who have a certain agency over their open stories to be able to tell. >> very, very well put. i appreciate you joining me tonight. congratulations again on your oscar. writer and director trayvon free, thank you so much. >> thank you. and thank you all at home for watching. we'll be right back here next

sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern, live. and you can watch me monday through thursday on "the choice oths on nbc's streaming channel peacock. good evening, joshua. >> good evening, mehdi. thank you very much. good to be with you tonight. fi. that is how one republican described the parties and fighting over loyalty to donald trump. this week could be crucial to the gop's future. plus, >> i still want to make sure we don't declare victory prematurely. >> doctor anthony fauci says we could still declare victory over covid-19, but that is getting tougher with vaccinations slowing down. his answers to your vaccine questions are just ahead. also, april's jobs report was not what washington or wall street had hoped, how will it affect president biden's policy plans? congresswoman debbie dingell of michigan joins us live, and breaking details about the cyberattack on the nation's largest gasoline pipeline. it could point to one of america's top adversaries. from nbc