recognition of people who win elections fairly and democratically. every trump judge has confirmed that that has had this case brought before them. it's time for republicans to also accept that reality. >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie you'll picks up the coverage right now. ♪♪ ♪♪ hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle. it is wednesday, may 12th and we are following several breaking stories in the nation's capitol right now. first, house republicans are meeting behind closed doors at this very moment. they will vote soon on whether to oust congresswoman liz cheney from gop leadership, and this just in, growing fears over inflation. with the consumer-price index, cpi rising 4.2% in april from a year ago. that is more than expected and the fastest pace in more than 12

years. that number could make things much more difficult for president biden as he gets ready to hold a high-stakes meeting with congressional leaders at the white house this morning on his infrastructure plan. >> and in just two hours a cdc panel could give the official green light for kids ages 12 to 15 to get the pfizer vaccine, but some states, they are not even waiting. i have the best group of people here this morning to help us break this down. darren hake, and my old and dear friend matthew dowd, founder of country over party. garrett, i've got to start with you. set the stage, the gop house meeting is going on right now, what's happening? >> this has been a long-awaited meeting and there's not going to be, we suspect, much drama to it. this meeting is behind closed doors and it is the weekly house republican meeting and today's will include a motion from some woman to recall the conference

chairwoman liz cheney. there will be a vote, likely a secret ballot and it is not entirely clear if cheney will get a chance to speak for herself in this meeting which may be part of the reason she spoke for herself last night on the house floor, the very last speech of the day in front of an empty chamber. she laid out the stakes of what she believes what she is fighting for. take a listen to what she said last night. >> this is not about policy. this is not about partisanship and this is about our duty as americans. remaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar. i will not participate in that. i will not sit back and watch in silence while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule of law and joins the former president's crusade to undermine our democracy. >> congresswoman cheney clearly not backing down here and we should expect her to come out and speak to reporters

immediately after this vote is taken, and we have not heard the last from her on these points. >> and john, no doubt, reporters across the board want to speak to her. she may be losing her leadership role and she will still be a sitting member of congress today, tomorrow and the next day. her national profile is boosted in a really big way and if we subscribe to the donald trump school of thought, as long as you're in the headlines, you're winning. is this a win for her? >> i don't think it's a win for her, but it will put her in another position as you say she will become a national figure and she's getting support from democrats which is something she never got before. she becomes a lightning rod for anti-trump forces within the republican party. will she have a future in the republican party? that's an open question. will she have a futures on the for politics? another open question and she's

not going away and she plans on continuing to talk, she will ramp up her political operation and she talks about it and we'll see if she can raise money and keep herself out there, and we'll see what kind of reaction she gets from republican crowds. pro-trump crowd is not going to favor liz cheney, but a conservative crowd is something that could support her and we'll see what happens to her in the next month or two and we'll kind of start to see how this starts to play out. >> to that very point, donald trump's republican party might not be the whole story. at the very same time you have more than 100 republicans, significant republicans threatening to leave the party. what do you make of this, matthew? >> well, i think it's obviously a good thing for america that somebody is willing to put party aside and speak the truth which is liz cheney. i think this will be a big win for liz and the thing is she doesn't have a party after today. i think the republicans ned to come to terms and get out of

denial that they've lost their party. the party has now become completely captive by anti-trug, anti-democratic and anti-law and order and anti-science people. they don't have a party where they fit in anymore, and so the question becomes liz cheney after this meeting, what does she do? in my view, liz cheney and all of the other republicans that want to stand for truth, science and democracy should declare they're no longer part of the republican caucus. they should say i am no longer part of this. i am not going to put myself in a position that gives you the majority in congress in 2022. that, to me, is the best moral position they could be in. how about decency and respect, last night, liz cheney with the exception of buck, speaking before an empty room. her fellow republicans, her colleagues, her friends for years couldn't sit and listen to

her speak? what was that about? >> that was too bad. if you listened to her that was a very interesting speech and it was compelling. i watched it several times. you know, i think the house was coming back in and it was a tuesday night, and they were rushing in to vote and then they ran out. i don't think a lot of people were aware she was going to speak. we were trying to speak to her all day yesterday to get her on the record to talk about it, so i think there was some confusion about it, but the leadership knew what she was going to do and members could have been there if they wanted to. i think it was a mistake. now, hopefully, she'll get a chance to speak today in the conference. i don't know if there will be a recorded vote, she may not want it, they don't know if she'll ask for a vote or not, so we'll see what happens and if there is a recorded vote, i think we'll get a real sense of how many

republicans stick with her, the ten, 20, 30, what's the number? what does that mean? this will not end today for kevin mccarthy and the house republican conference and this will go on for a while and this may come back at some point when he wants to be speaker. do cheney's friends try to take him out as speaker if they win the majority. this will play out and the way it plays out it will view in all different directions. >> you outlined problems with the republican party and you have a piece out entitled america has a problem, a mold problem. what do you mean by that? >> well, black mold in a house. if you think about black mold in a house it starts out really small in some damp, dark place and if you don't tend to it and at some point your house is a health hazard and becomes unlivable. we are at that point in america. we did not tend to the conspiracies and lies that grew

and grew and grew, and now america has a black mold problem and the black mold problem, we need to see it clearly and we need to hire contractors, elected officials who are willing to see it clearly, tell the truth about your problem and not paint over it and that's, i think, where we are today and i'll emphasize, the dividing line in america today is not idideological, it's not conservative versus progressive. it is not red or blue. it's a dividing line, do you tell the truth and are you willing to accept facts and do you support our democracy or don't you? that is the dividing line in america today and that is where all of us, me, you, the media has to make the position known. this is no longer a game in washington. this is about the security and safety of our republic. >> but matt, you are a strategist. help me could this political strategy. millions of americans across this country are not paying

attention to liz cheney or whether or not she spoke last night. they're paying attention to putting food on the table and gas in their car. why wouldn't the republican party pounce on joe biden's infrastructure spending and these are gimmes who they could potentially sway, but instead they're occupying crazy town. >> well, the republican party has become a party that's not about policy anymore and it's a party that says i want america to look like this. i don't like what america has become in many different ways, whether it's faith or the populations or diversity and all those things. and so they can't even force themselves to get into a debate about tax rates and about whether or not we've done anything we should have done in the pandemic and health care reform. they can't get there because they're trapped in a cultural mantra that basically is telling people that if you want to return to the way america was,

vote for us and the problem in the long term is america has already changed and that culture and the country has fundamentally changed from where the republicans want it to be. >> matthew, john, garrett, thank you. i want to stay on that because while republicans are focused on fighting over who gets to stand behind the house minority leader, that's what this fight is about. they're not focusing on president biden and his spending plans. the focus of his meeting with the top four lawmakers in congress today and those spending plans were already going to be a tough sell, but this morning they got to be a lot tougher. less than an hour ago released new numbers showing the consumer-price index that basically follows inflation spiked to 4.2% compared to where we were a year ago and that's the biggest jump we've seen since 2008 and you combine that from shortages from copper to corn, all of this is fueling republican criticism about

inflation and fears that the biden spending plans are going to make the problem even worse. shannon pettypiece is with numbers news and the economics editor for "the wash wish post," shannon, even if this is all predictable and logical, which it is. in the short term, it's an obstacle for this white house. how are they spending it? >> it's certainly something that republicans have been seizing on as one more thing to a long list of reasons that republicans oppose a spending bill. we will see what the administration has to say after this big jump today. we will hear from the president a bit later, in a couple of hours and maybe he'll address this then. so far administration officials have been downplaying this risk of inflation. we heard the fed chairman jay powell was pressed on this by republicans in congress. he said that he did not think inflation would be particularly large or persistent. we just heard last week treasury

secretary janet yellen seeming to walk back remarks that interest rates might have to go up to cool down the economy. later on she said she didn't think inflation would be a big risk and the case that she and others have been making is that this infrastructure spending is needed and any inflation is going to be short term. >> a reminder, when we grew up, they were 4% and 5% and things were okay. i have to get garrett hake back in. i think you just got liz cheney's remark, did you? >> yes. my colleagues have heard from liz cheney. she opened the meeting defending herself and essentially said let the chips fall where they may. our nation needs this republican party as a party based on truth so we can shape the future. if you want leaders that will enable and spread his, donald trump's destructive lives i am not your person. you have plenty of others to choose from. that will be their legacy and then she said and this is an answer to a question we've wondered for several days now,

which is what will be her next move. after today i will be leading the fight to restore our party and our nation to conservative principles to defeating socialism and defending the republican and to making the gop worthy again of being the party of lincoln and then she opened the rest of the meeting with a prayer. you see liz cheney, one more opportunity and she had an empty room last night and a full room in the republican conference this morning throwing down the gauntlet and saying essentially if you want to fight this, i will be here to fight it with you and if you want to continue with the lie go ahead and go some place else. >> it sounds like liz cheney may be leading that group of 100 people, taking another direction. damian, i want to turn to you, to washington to your and my mother's kitchen tables. yes, 4.2 is a big jump compared to last year, but if you compare it to two years ago, it's in

line with a steady climb and we have to look at the last year. this time last year we were shut down and we weren't driving five miles and we weren't even going out and getting a cup of coffee. fast forward, now u.s. savings have gone up and people are ready to spend and we have shortages because there were production delays because of the pandemic. doesn't it make sense that we would have this temporary price surge? >> it does absolutely make sense, and if it is temporary, as you said, then it's something that the white house in a month or two will be able to look in the rear-view mirror and exhale. used car sales -- the prices went up 10% in a month. if that continues in a couple of month that's a real pinch. gas prices are now up higher than they've been, and the more they've been passed along to consumers, affecting ten years into the fall the white house will have a serious problem in their hands and inflation is a tricky thing to deal with.

there's not a law you can pass or something that you can introduce that will snuff it out. it's a difficult thing that involves the federal reserve and it's hard to do when you're trying to get the economy up again, and if it continues it's a political nightmare for the white house. >> but don't we pair this off at all with the fact that u.s. savings has gone up and it is logical for prices to go up over time? yes, we have all become addicted to free shipping on the couch and it should show up tomorrow and isn't that a natural progression of the me and we're being short-term realistic. >> exactly. there is a supply and demand problem and there's all of this cash in the economy and people want merchandise, furniture and a whole bunch of other things and there's not enough to go around. for example, the rental car industry is out of whack because there's this demand of rental cars to satisfy demand. right now there is this big

backlog and if supply chains can sort this out in the next month or two and meet demand with supply and then these things will get a much more normal, economic terrain, and if this continues, and the semiconductor chips remain a problem and they cannot be produced and prices remain up and it becomes a biggest political problem and consumers want to purchase all kinds of things and air travel prices are up now, with the surge in demand in cash there will be a national bump, and if it continues for a period of time then it is more of a problem. >> shannon, does this white house have an extended period of time? they trying to get this infrastructure bill through and yes, they've got that big meeting today, but is it anything more than a show? >> you raise a good point. the white house sees the clock ticking and they see urgency in getting this passed. they want to see a bill passed

over the summer and they're looking to make progress with republicans by memorial day or they'll re-assess the strategy. they're trying to find the common ground. no one is expecting mitch mcconnell to walk out and saying $2 trillion and let's raise corporate tax rates and they're hoping to find some common ground and then they have additional meetings with republican lawmakers this week. the president has said he is open to compromise and willing to negotiate. so that's where we are right now with the white house. >> all right, shannon petsypiece and damon palota. we are less than two hour away from a cdc advisory meeting where they are expected to formally approve the pfizer covid vaccine for kids ages 5 to 15. joining me is dr. paul offit and i want to go first to allison barber in georgia where the state is allowing anyone 12 or older to get it.

allison, why are they doing that? >> georgia's actually one of three states already allowing 12 to 15-year-olds to get vaccinated with the pfizer covid vaccine if they want to. the other two are arkansas and delaware. so some health care systems within the state are planning to do that until the cdc advisory board will issue additional guidance, but the georgia department of public health said they made the decision after the fda's emergency authorization on monday that they would go ahead and let those 12 to 15-year-olds get vaccinated with the pfizer vaccine at a dph-run or associated vaccination site like this one as long as they had a proper consent form from a parent or legal guardian. they were worried if they told children and their families to get a vaccine yesterday or this morning before that cdc meeting that they wanted to come back in 24 or 48 hours that they might

not come back at all. they figured out they'd want to get vaccinated in the age range get the proper vaccine. we spoke to a parent that could not come soon enough and based on the polling, families, vaccinating their children is not an easy decision and for this family, it was a no-brainer. >> we talked to liz and her son ben and he's 13 years old and he's been doing virtual learning and he starts high school next year. he wants to be back in the classroom and his mom wants him there, as well. she felt in order to feel comfortable sending him back to the classroom. he says he wanted to get vaccinated as well and when i asked him when he's looking forward to most he said being social and normal kid stuff. >> as soon as i am fully vaccinated i'm having a sleepover at my friend's house,

so that's -- i think that's one of the -- and probably the movie theaters because i haven't been into movie theaters in over a year and anything that's public that i couldn't do i'll want to do that over the summer. >> doctor, we are days away from the regulatory agencies giving the green light. what do you think about some states moving forward now? >> i think it's fine. it is -- it's a foregone conclusion that the cdc will back the fda that this vaccine can be used for the 12 to 15-year-olds so they can go back to live their lives normally. this is their way out and this is the ticket and this is the solution to the problem of the pandemic and i think all parents and frankly all adults should embrace this vaccine. >>. >> all right. i can tell you, i have kids in that age range, i'm embracing it. vaccine hesitancy numbers are down, but the fight to get even more americans vaccinated is

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we've got breaking news on capitol hill. let's go back to garrett hake. garet? >> just like that, it's over. the house republican conference had a voice vote. that means no recorded total and has ousted liz cheney from her number three position within the conference. they will not know the vote totals here and some could say it's an elegant way to embarrass the leadership or chain we vote totals. she spoke to cameras briefly afterwards remarks similar to what she said in front of the conference and now we expect to see her continue on with what she has promised to do which is try to lead the republican away from donald trump, but she will be doing it from the outside.

no longer a member of house leadership officially. >> and wasn't it supposed to be a secret ballot? why was it a voice vote? they wanted liz cheney to see them vote against her? >> this is a quicker way to do it. it prevents the total from being potentially embarrassing to house leadership. if more members voted with cheney and the cheney camp might prefer not knowing the total. it would have been a secret ballot and this would have been the top line number and now we know the voice vote and it's up to members to tell us how they voted or not. lance goodman already tweeting that he was proud to vote against liz cheney. i suspect we'll hear lots from those who voted against her and less from those who stood with her. >> hopefully we'll hear from liz cheney in the next few minutes and if we do, we will come right back to you. let's turn to the fight against covid. the biden administration has

less than two months left of meeting the president's goal of getting at least one shot in the arms of adults. that means winning over millions of americans. it is a key topic in tonight's msnbc's town hall with president biden, right now i am joined by andy slavitt, white house senior adviser for the covid response. you're the guy in charge of this. i know you have ideas of how to reach these people and help us understand, because it's not that they can't get it, they don't want it. >> good morning, stephanie. we should take stock of where we are. 150 millions have had their first shot and it's extraordinary and it happened more quickly than expected. here's what we know, we know some people make quick decisions about whether to make a vehicles vaccine or not, there's no right or wrong way to do this. if you have questions you want answered, ask your doctor. if you want to talk to 150

million people that have been vaccinated, do that. look at the data and look at india and see the results of what happens when you can get vaccinated and we'll make it easier and easier for people who want their questions answered and the convenience and things that can get if the way. you can text your zip code to get vaxed and you will get free rides from lyft and uber and we'll have more ease for you to get vaccinated and most americans will continue to do the job. >> i would guess, help me understand who that person is who is not getting vaccinated because if i'm someone who doesn't have access to get to a vaccination center i'm guessing i don't have the ability to get myself lift. if i wasn't click, click, clicking and getting them an

appointment, they wouldn't have gotten one. >> we have an 800 number that people can use now that can help them get an appointment and call the lyft line and a quick way to do that and if there is a text service, you can just text and it's not that they necessarily don't have access. it's that they're younger and it's not as much of a priority for them. they may feel like, oh, what's the big deal if i get covid. they may not understand that they have long-term symptoms and they can spread it and it's not as high a priority, so for them the ease is very important. it's not so much that they don't like vaccines, it's that they haven't really considered this very much and so we'll make it easier and easier. >> is it working? because we should mention that the seven-day average is going up. is that all of these outreach

campaigns? we are the administration that will try and do anything and we consider this a wartime effort and we will absolutely be pouring it on and yes, i think that 6% of adults or so got vaccinated last week. we can continue up to keep that pace up. we will be doing fine, but what's most important is we just get people individually their messages. we show people that we actually respect the fact that they may want to think about whether or not they want to get a vaccine or not, and it's not that we should isolate or shame people just because they say, you know what? i've got a few questions. let's answer their questions and i think they'll see the data and end up getting vaccinated. >> as an ultimate goal, do you have a total percentage of americans in your mind that you believe can and will be vaccinated? >> we obviously want to vaccinate everybody, but if you look at some cities across the country and states across the country, you are seeing areas where we have over 75% and you

look at nursing homes and older folks and you have people over 85%. in israel, the country and in some populations over 90%. there's no reason why over time and it will become a routine thing for americans. they won't question whether or not they should get vaccinated and i think it will be the norm and it will take us a little while to get there and we will get to 7% by the fourth of july and we think that is a big number and a big opportunity for the country to move forward. >> all right. andy slavitt, they for joining us this morning and for you at home, for more on how the white house plans to get every american vaccinated you can tune in tonight to msnbc at 10:00 p.m. for a special town hall. lawrence o'donnell will be sitting down with the president, dr. anthony fauci, surgeon general murthy and the audience

will have questions so it's not just us. you do not want to miss it. up next, four governors have declared a state of emergency as gas stations on the east coast start running out of supply. how long will it take for the gas to start flowing again? r th gas to start flowing again skin. y besy olay body. fearless in my skin. so then i said to him, you oughta customize your car insurance with liberty mutual, so you only pay for what you need. hot dog or... chicken? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ this is our block. our place. our people. our block, it's just like yours. full of the people who shaped you. they all deserve care and access to the vaccine. no matter their address, income, or skin color.

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the opening bell rang just about four minutes ago on wall street after a brutal day yesterday. the markets are down again. stocks are being hit by a double-dose of bad news. this morning the consumer-price index came in at 4.2%, even higher than expected, the highest jump we've seen in 12 years. the other big problem, growing gas shortages in several states and gas prices spiking to their highest level in seven years. cnbc's don chu watching the markets and tom llamas and let's go to you first. everyone is freaking out over the cpi number, what have we learned? right now at this moment stuff costs more. so what? people are spending it in droves. >> that's the big conversation happening right now, stephanie. the markets are taking it

relative leigh well and the dow is down less than 100 points at this point here and there is an expectation that we would get harder reds on price inflation and whether it's more structural, longer lasting and we'll be dealing with those higher prices generally for months, possibly years to come. some of the notable drivers of that report were energy prices. you mentioned gasoline price e right? no surprise there, this time last year we weren't that far removed from seeing negative oil prices and that wasn't a huge shock, that was aier ago. used car prices were up 21% due to supply issues around new cars because why? the global computer chip shortage. you can't get a new car. you have to get a used car and the used car prices are going up. also to your point, stephanie, hotel rates were up over 8% and airfares were up over 9% and that might be a good sign as a sign of the economic recovery

believe it or not, i'll leave you with this and the bureau of labor statistics has so much data out there, but they can break out the effects of not just food and energy and also housing and used car and truck prices. if you look at that measure of consumer prices and it was up 2.6%. that's still high, yes, and it's strange to strip out things because we all use food and energy and housing and many of us drive used cars and that's going to be what's going to be a huge consideration for many investors and policymakers, stephanie, and politicians just how sustainable the surge and things like food and energy prices and used car prices will be as things work themselves outpost-covid pandemic, steph. that's the big key right now. >> which is why if you'll strip anything out, strip out the year 2020. that sent all of this into a spell. tom, take us to charlotte, north carolina. two days ago, president biden said we will not have a gas shortage, yet where you are, you

have about 70% of gas stations saying they're out of gas. >> the situation is dire in charlotte. seven out of 10 gas stations have no gas. this is just one part of the line. there are long lines in each direction as well and we can't even see where those lines end, but around this costco, there are several gas stations and no gas. there are plastic bags over the handles. energy secretary jennifer granholm was warning drivers to take it easy. let's hear what she has to say. >> let me emphasize, was there no cause for hoarding toilet paper at the beginning of the pandemic, there should be no cause for hoarding gasoline especially in light of the fact that the pipeline should be substantially operation alibi the end of this week and over the weekend. >> reporter: now that's sage

advice, but that's the reality check. that might be sage advice. when i talk to drivers they're telling you, listen, we hear the white house and we hear the expert, but we have to get to work. we don't want to be left stuck on the road, don't want to miss work as well and that's why they're waiting in these lines. they can't find gas anywhere around them so they're waiting in these long loins and the confusing thing about this and i talked to gas buddy and they're telling me that even though the outages are significant. metro, atlanta, 60% of stations don't have gas there. states of emergencies in virginia, florida, georgia, north carolina. all of that is happening, but there is fuel. the problem is the truckers can't get this fuel to the gas stations because the demand, as you see behind me is so high. if colonial pipeline is back up and running and that was also new development, if they figure things out and they can get the

gas in the gas stations and this problem won't be as bad. the only issue is in the coming days if they don't fix these problems it will get even worse. >> have we heard from colonial? that's the thing, we don't have's supply issue in this country, you just have to get that up and running again. >> i think this problem could be fixed in the coming days into the weekend and they have staffers driving and waking along the pipeline. those 5,500 miles from texas all of the way up to new jersey so they're clearly monitoring the situation, and it's just a really hard balance right now, and when you talk to drivers, too, we were told a lot of things in the beginning of the pandemic that were completely wrong, and so now with this gas issue they don't want to be taking chances, stephanie and they don't want to be left on the road. the average commute time is 30 minutes in america. those are long drives and people don't want to be left stuck on the side of the road.

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buildings in advance. sky news foreign affairs editor deborah haynes is live in jerusalem. deborah, what's the latest from the ground? >> reporter: well, we've just heard from the shinbeck security service, israel's security service saying that it's part of their operations that have been taken -- [ no audio ] >> it sounds like we lost her audio. we will go back to her right after the break. important story and this morning we have bad news for the national rifle association. a federal judge in dallas, texas, texas of all places denying the group's attempt to file for bankruptcy and re-organize in tech tex. the group had filed for bankruptcy to try and protect itself after new york attorney general, tisha james filed a

lawsuit filing claims of dealings, wayne lapierre responded with this. we remain an independent organization that can chart its own course even as we remain in new york to confront our adversaries. that fight isn't over. coming up next, you probably haven't heard her name, but you should. she's a big reason why you are able to hug your family and eat inside at a restaurant. the incredible story of one of the scientists behind the covid vaccine. that's next. the covid vaccine. that's next. at fidelity, you get personalized wealth planning and unmatched overall value. together with a dedicated advisor, you'll make a plan that can adjust as your life changes, with access to tax-smart investing strategies that help you keep more of what you earn. and with brokerage accounts, you see what you'll pay before you trade. personalized advice. unmatched value. at fidelity, you can have both. ♪ more than this ♪ we're here for the heavy flow-ers at fand the wedgie-pickersboth.

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let's take you back to capitol hill where garrett haake is standing by covering the latest on congresswoman liz cheney. any reaction yet from cheney or her camp? >> she came out and spoke to reporters afterwards. she gave a brief statement echoing the words she gave last night and took a couple of questions. kaci hunt asked how concerned she was about the possibility that former president donald trump could once again become president donald trump. she told the reporters there that she would do everything in her power from prevent former

president trump from coming near the oval office ever again. i think the other point she made in a couple difference contexts is that she wants to do this as a republican. not part of some other group. not going to go out and form a third party. she wants to win the fight for what it means to be a republican. we know she is starting from deep deep behind the vote here. the lack of public support for her is indicative of that. but she is to fighting to make sure it is not the party of trump going forward. just in the last few minutes we have seen formally an announcement from elise stefanik a that she would like what was once liz cheney's job. >> and former president donald trump weighing in via pony express or however he

communicates? >> that is right, he is out with a statement celebrating her removal. he has been unsubtle in his cheer leadings and he continues to revel in what is a victory for his win of the party today. >> unsurprising, but again he says that from his private home in florida because he lost the election and he is not the president. this morning, nearly one-third of the u.s. population is now fully vaccinated. absorb what a big, big deal that is. think about where we were just three months ago. much of it is thanks to a woman you probably never heard of. her name is dr. kati kariko. andrea mitchell has a closer

look at this doctor who is our hero of the day. >> the scientific breakthrough that helped create today's covid vaccines was unlocked here by two unassuming scientists who, for years, their work went unnoticed and dismissed. >> talk about how skeptical people were. >> i don't know, did we listen to them? not really. >> everybody was skeptical, we didn't care. >> born in hungary, she came to pursue science in the 1980s. by 1988 her funding at the university of pennsylvania dried up. >> i tried to get grants but i could not so i was not promoted. >> faced with losing her job, she met dr. drew weisman. >> we would fight over the

photocopier and that is how we met. >> what did you see in dr. kariko. >> we would sit and talk and we kept thinking of more and more things we could do and it kept us going. >> he worked on vaccines, she worked on messenger rna. together they found a way to create a vaccine that got past the body's defenses but still prompted the immune system to make antibodies to fight decide. >> we were sure, he was working on the cell, i was making rna, it was very joyful shoulder to shoulder collaboration. >> dr. weissman, how did the breakthrough become acknowledged and become the vaccines that have saved millions and millions of people, potentially billions. >> we're laughing because we're remembering how bad it was. in 2005 we published our paper

that is now considered, you know, the game changer that identified modified rna. >> but the acclaim didn't come. >> they really didn't care about it. it wasn't until around 2008 or 2009 when people started to see the potential. >> so from 1998 to 2008 or 2009, all of those years, you were in the wilderness. >> yeah. it took another ten years. >> now they're discovery is leading to more vaccines for aids, ebola -- >> it's truly a plug and play. you can take out one coding sequence and put in whatever you want. >> and now they're talking about a noble prize, how does that make you feel? >> i don't think about it. i don't think i will get it. i focus always on the work and that's what excites me.

>> we both share that. my family always gets mad at me because, you know, they want to talk about the great success but i have already moved on to the next thing. >> today a crowd, they remind them that glory is not the true reward. >> you have to enjoy so it is very important that you have to be happy when you're doing these things. >> and the joy of discovery. >> yes. >> i am grateful. that is our hero of the day. maybe our year, and that wraps up this very busy hour. i'm stephanie ruhle and hallie jackson has breaking news coverage, next. coverage, next

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