she was removed basically for telling the truth. she gave an impassioned speech on the floor of the house last night, which was empty because all of her colleagues left. she said republicans must speak to truth. the election was not stolen. so she had to go. you know, you can't have republicans going around saying biden won the election. people might get the right idea. >> house republicans voted to kick liz cheney out of her leadership role. yeah. republicans haven't turned on someone this fast since they tried to murder mike pence. you could tell dick cheney was upset when he offered to take house minority leader kevin mccarthy on a hunting trip to talk it over. after the vote, liz cheney said that she doesn't want trump to get near the oval office ever again. it's not that hard, actually. all you have to do is hang a sign outside that says, just salad. >> good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, may 13th.

it would be funny, but it's all true. along with willie and me, we have co-founder of punch bowl news, jake sherman, an msnbc political contributor. white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lemire, and founder of the conservative website, "the bulwark," and author of "how the right lost its mind," which is a question we need to answer today. charlie sykes. joe will be back tomorrow. but we'll dive right in. after being ousted from republican leadership, congresswoman liz cheney is vowing to keep up the fight to break former president trump's grip on the gop. house republicans voted behind closed doors yesterday to remove cheney as conference chair for telling the truth in a meeting that lasted less than 20 minutes. according to a source in the room, cheney spoke to her colleagues before the vote saying in part, we must be true to our principles and to the constitution. we cannot let the former president drag us backward and

make us complicit in his efforts to unravel our democracy. down that path lies our destruction and potentially the destruction of our country. the congresswoman spoke to reporters after the vote, including our own kasie hunt. >> how concerned are you that former president trump might end up back in the oval office and what are you prepared to do to prevent that? >> i will do everything i can to ensure that the former president never again gets anywhere near the oval office. we have seen the danger that he continues to provoke with his language. we have seen his lack of commitment and dedication to the constitution. and i think it's very important that we make sure whomever we elect is somebody who will be faithful to the constitution. >> do you feel betrayed by today's vote? >> i do not. i think that it is an indication of where the republican party is

and i think that the party is in a place that we've got to bring it back from, and we've got to get back to a position where we are a party that can fight for conservative principles, that can fight for substance. we cannot be dragged backward by the very dangerous lies of a former president. thank you. >> and congresswoman cheney was removed by a voice vote, meaning none of them had to record how they voted. hours after that, house leader kevin mccarthy stood outside the white house after meeting with president biden and actually said this -- >> i don't think anybody is questioning the legitimacy of the presidential election. i think that is all over with. we're sitting here with the president today. so from that point of view, i don't think that's a problem. >> president trump and many other republicans, of course, are questioning the outcome of the election. the fact is, mccarthy, along with 146 other republicans all voted on january 6th, the same

day the capitol was attacked by insurrectionists who wanted to overturn the election, they voted not to certify that joe biden had, in fact, won. and even four months later, now, many republicans are still hesitant to say publicly that president biden won legitimately. that includes likely successor to liz cheney's republican leadership post, congresswoman elise stefanick of new york, who claimed just last week election officials engaged in, quote, unprecedented, unconstitutional overreach. she voiced her support for the baseless recount in the state of arizona underway right now. so charlie sykes, really a breathtaking day from about 9:00 a.m. forward for congressional republicans. when you look at the vote itself, a voice vote, an unrecorded vote to oust liz cheney. kevin mccarthy saying, no one's questioning the outcome of the election. we'll get to this later, but several republicans in a congressional hearing basically engaging in january 6th trutherism, saying what you saw

happened didn't happen. it was just a group of tourists moving through the capitol. we'll get to that later. but your thoughts about what you saw play out yesterday? >> well, it seems like an old story, but it all came together yesterday. i mean what happened with liz cheney by the republican caucus was cowardly. it was dishonest, and it was politically stupid. and kevin mccarthy is now deciding that his best strategy is to lie about the lie. the contrast between liz cheney standing on principle, not backing down, is extraordinary. you know, you mentioned some of the other things that were said yesterday. i'm just so struck by the fact that you have, you know, this congresswoman from georgia who says, what happened on january 6th was just tourists, you know, peacefully walking through the capitol. they're not going to sanction him. there's no controversy within the republican caucus about him. but liz cheney, who has said, do not whitewash the insurrection, who has said, the election was legitimate, was thrown out. they did not have the courage,

either to show up and listen to her final speech on the floor of the house, which was remarkable, they did not have the courage to have an open vote or to have a recorded vote. that was cowardly. and it was profoundly stupid, because a serious party would have been talking about some of the issues facing the country yesterday. and instead, what is kevin mccarthy doing? he is having the entire news cycle overtaken by his purge of liz cheney. and i think that, you know, we are seeing the republican party -- by the way, the other reason it's stupid, of course, is that he's managed to raise liz cheney's profile dramatically. she is far more prominent today than she was a week ago. so if he thought he was putting an end to this, that was delusional. and one last point, that comment that no one is questioning the election, has he paid any attention to what the former guy is saying on a daily basis down

in the orange versailles? he's putting out one statement after another questioning the election, embracing one crazy conspiracy theory after another. and so here's a party that cannot tolerate liz cheney. cannot even have a vote on liz cheney, an open vote, but continues to be in the thrall of this guy who continues to deny that he lost the election and appears to be embracing weird notions of somehow overturning the election. so the crazy, the stupid and the dishonest very strong in the republican party yesterday. >> it was a vote on the truth. and used the words revisionist history and delusional. this is what leads to the downfall of a democracy and it can't be put lighter, when you have a group of people who run a party, a political party, one of two main political parties, who are acting in a delusional way, it's so dangerous. and liz cheney is just trying to

tell the truth. and trying to warn them that their lies, their bold-faced lies are hurgt this country. and are putting this country in danger. and putting this country in danger around the world. destroying our place in the world. kevin mccarthy is a bold-faced liar. and all the republicans standing behind him in lockstep and elise stefanick, they have made that choice to be bold-faced liars to the american people. here's what we're talking about now. the house oversight committee held a hearing yesterday on the january 6th attack on the capitol. people are going to jail for the crimes they committed that day, in which we heard several members of the trump wing of the republican party offer blatantly false accounts of what happened that day. >> it was trump supporters who lost their lives that day, not trump supporters who were taking the lives of others. >> my constituents demand answers. but the truth is being censored

and covered up. as a result, the doj is harassing peaceful patriots across the country. >> so was january 6th an insurrection or could it be more accurately described as a mob of misfits? >> there was no insurrection and to call it an insurrection in my opinion is a bold-faced lie. watching the tv footage of those who entered the capitol and walked through statutory hall showed people in an orderly fashion taking videos and pictures. if you didn't know the tv footage was video from january the 6th, you would actually think it would a normal tourist video. >> um, i don't think so, actually. gosar, fallon, clyde, all lying. here is new video of that normal tourist visit that they were lying about. last night, cnn aired new body cam footage from the capitol riot showing the moment when the insurrectionists attacked capitol police officer michael fanone. at one point, you can hear him pleading with his attackers, telling them that he has kids. a warning, it is very difficult

to watch.

>> jake sherman, i just wonder if congressman clyde, if his constituents consider that a

normal day? if that's a normal day to them, just a peaceful, normal day and gosar and fallon, the congressman saying that that was not what happened. how stupid do they think the american people are? but even more so, why can't they just tell the truth? and how does anything get done on capitol hill if you have to work with people who stand up for a criminal act? >> a few thoughts. i don't have the words or the emotions to adequately respond to this, because it's such a lie. i, as you guys know, because i've known you for much of this time, i've been covering congress for 12 years in the capitol, nearly every workday in that period and was there on january 6th. there was nothing about that day that was anything remotely close to a regular day. no one was standing between the stanchions. it's not even -- i can't even

put it to words how ridiculously stupid those comments are and how illogical and criminally stupid they are. that's number one. number two. to be blunt, these are not even marginal players in the house of representatives. these are non-factors. these people are back bench rank and file members that 90% of -- you know, 60% of the congress, they don't even pass them by in the hallways and don't even know their names. yes, they are members of congress, they have a vote, but they are not involved in any sort of legislating in any way, shape, or form. but listen, in part, to bring this full circle, liz cheney was pushed out because she was willing to speak what a lot of republicans and frankly what factually were uncomfortable troops about january 6th and about the election. and even republicans that agree with her suggest that it was distracting and although they agreed with her, they didn't want to bring it up and they didn't want to talk about it on a regular basis.

so that's the republican party on capitol hill right now. and that's the party that is trying to, you know, in 16, 15 months, whatever it is, take back the majority for the first time since losing it in 2018. so this is -- and frankly, we'll have see, mika, if this party is ever able to move beyond this. because they have given liz cheney a megaphone. they have given -- i mean, this is dominating the front page of every major newspaper in america today. so republicans were trying to move on from liz cheney. instead, they have emboldened her and given her a megaphone. >> charlie, it may be too much to ask you to explain what was inside the heads or what remains inside the heads of those congressmen that we just watched there, engaging in full trutherism about 1/6. we all watched it happen on live tv. jake was in the building. he watched it happen with his own eyes. what is going on? what is the rot at the center of

the republican party that allows people to think these things, to express these things, and then to have leadership look the other way when people say in an open congressional hearing that what we all saw happen on 1/6 didn't happen. that it was peaceful. they were just misfits. they were behaving in an orderly fashion? a normal tourist visit was one way it was described by congressman andrew clyde. it's dishonorable, it's unpatriotic, and it's just lies. what is going on in the republican party? >> well, you used the word "rot." i'm tempted to say, not much is going on, but the reality is, those congressmen, though they will be rewarded for all of that, that there will be no sanctions for lying about this or this kind of revisionist history. and the term "revisionist history" doesn't seem strong enough. it feels like something, i don't know, an authoritarian regime where you simply rewrite the history books and white out

certain people who have become politically incorrect. but the extent of the lie is extraordinary, especially because as you've pointed out, we were there, we saw it, those images are still so graphic. all you need to do is put them side by side. so it's certainly an indication of how divorced from any sort of reality or allegiance to the truth the republican party has become. but i think what they're counting on is they're counting on the alternative reality silos of the right-wing media ecosystem to either ignore the lie or find way to rationalize it. well, it wasn't so bad. this is called ret-conning. you simply rewrite the history, pretend what happened didn't happen and put your own spin on it. but for a party that has been devolving, yesterday really was extraordinary in so many respects and you can only imagine what it will be like if kevin mccarthy and those guys take the majority next year.

>> yes, i also think that liz cheney has humiliated these liars and it will be interesting to see what happens in the days and months to come and where she finds support, because i do think there's lots of people and organizations who support the truth. and believe in the constitution. and she's betting on this country. and i think this is just the beginning of something that, you know, is very frustrating to watch this party go down in flames. quite frankly, we need a strong republican party. conservatives. real ones. we don't have that. as for the meeting between president biden and republican leaders, kevin mccarthy and mitch mcconnell, it was about the infrastructure bill. republicans drew their red line on taxes and in a campaign text to supporters shortly after the meeting, mccarthy looked to raise money by saying, quote, i just met with corrupt joe biden

and he's still planning to push his radical socialist agenda on the american people. sounding a lot like donald trump in his language. that's his model? wow. compare that to this tweet president biden put out after the meeting. quote, this morning, vice president harris and i met with a group of -- a bipartisan group of congressional leaders. as i've said before, we can't let the divisions of the present stop us from doing right by the future. we are committed to work together to build back better for the american people. jonathan lemire, the white house apparently taking the tactic of staying away from the ugliness and the lies and doing what they can do with this party as it pertains to the legislation that they want passed. >> this is still an effort by the white house and the democrats to come to some sort of bipartisan agreement, for at least a portion of this infrastructure, jobs, and family

plan. and there's still hope that some deal, perhaps, can be reached, even on the hard infrastructure part of it. the roads, bridges, broadband, and things like that. and other matters, maybe the democrats end up doing that on their own. the president himself came out of this meeting, and i was part of the press pool that was in the roof in the oval office for the first few minutes of it. he said he was encouraged and when asked, he said he still believes he can do a deal with republicans, including leader mccarthy, even though he has now backed elise stefanick and ousted liz cheney. stefanick also the one who suggested she didn't believe the election results were valid. but the republicans did by drawing this red line and leader mcconnell said everwards, outside the west wing, may have given the democrats some license to further go it alone. to the trump tax cut of 2017 is off the table, and republicans say it is, that perhaps makes it easier for democrats to sell to the moderates, the manchins, the

sinema, the senators who the white house has been lobbying persistently. make it easier to sell them, like, look, we're trying. that's what a lot of this is about. the show, the effort of bipartisanship, not only does it not lead to any gop votes. not only is that what americans want to see from their president, but by making a good faith effort saying, we're trying to reach across the aisle, that might reassure some of these more moderate democrats who are a little squeamish about doing this via reconciliation, which would be democrats only, to then, hey, we have no other choice. we have to do this. but i think we should also just dwell on this as a final point. that the striking contrast in where these two parties were in the aftermath of the meeting. biden, as i said, encouraged. said he'd been in there and urged them to say, we need to set aside our differences. republicans, very different. mccarthy, that tweet you just referenced. and indeed, he came out of the oval office and minutes later

said, there's no one still questioning the legitimacy of the election. we just met with the president, which was the latest lie, the latest insult that he and the republicans are putting forth to the american people about the events of january 6th and the former president's claims about last year's election. >> all right, jonathan lemire. still ahead on "morning joe," the colonial pipeline hack has caused panic buying at gas stations across the east coast. energy secretary jennifer granholm is urging drivers not to horde gasoline. she'll be our guest this morning to give us an update on where things stand. plus, one of the most vocal republican defenders of liz cheney and ally in the quest to stamp out donald trump's big lie, congressman adam kinzinger will be our guest this morning. and as we go to break, we leave you with this from president biden's interview last night with msnbc's lawrence o'donnell. >> the one thing you don't have on this 113th day in the

presidency is your son, beau's , advice. i'm wondering what you would say today if beau called you today and said, hey, pop, how's it going? >> i would say, beau, i remember what you would say to me every single time we would talk about a political issues. he said say, dad, look at me, i give you my word, he would say, dad, look at me remember, home base. home base. be who you are. the one thing that i would hope that he would say is, dad, you're home base. you're sticking to it. some things are worth losing over, old buddy. i haven't done this this long, to die now, to do things that i don't believe. >> mr. president, thank you very much for your time today. we really appreciate it. >> thank you. it always catches me off guard with beau. god love him. he should be sitting in this

chair. anyway, thank you. sitting in ts chair. anyway, thank you. i'm searching for info on options trading, and look, it feels like i'm just wasting time. that's why td ameritrade designed a first-of-its-kind, personalized education center. oh. their award-winning content is tailored to fit your investing goals and interests. and it learns with you, so as you become smarter, so do its recommendations. so it's like my streaming service. well except now you're binge learning. see how you can become a smarter investor with a personalized education from td ameritrade. visit tdameritrade.com/learn ♪

♪ na na na na ♪ na na na na... ♪ hey hey hey. ♪ goodbye. ♪ na na na na... ♪ hey hey hey. ♪ goodbye. ♪ na na na na ♪ na na na na... the world's first six-function multipro tailgate. available on the gmc sierra.

i think there's a place that we can find bipartisanship and it's one thing i brought up to the president. we first have to start with the definition of what is infrastructure. you won't find any republican that's going to go raise taxes. >> we're not interested in reopening the 2017 tax bill. we both have made that clear to the president. that's our red line. >> so, jake sherman, that's pretty explicit there from mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy that they don't want to move on this. we could talk about the substance of the bill and where there might be some wiggle room, but more broadly as you take a step back, what does joe biden, what does the white house do with a kevin mccarthy who sits in the oval office for a meeting, a good faith meeting, whether or not it was theatrical

was another matter, and steps out and sends a fund-raising text saying, i just met with corrupt joe biden who's pushing his radical, socialist agenda, send me money within the next six hours, the fund-raising text wrote. how do you have a negotiation with that person? >> you have to be really good, willie, at compartmentalizing. and you know, listen, the question -- i mean, to be fair, and i'm not making excuses, because we highlighted that last night also in our evening news letter, it's ridiculous. it's crazy, but that's modern day political fund-raising. he didn't press "send" on that. it was probably teed up. that said, it's despicable. joe biden will try. and if you step back even further, the larger question for joe biden is how much does he want bipartisanship? he's made the case time and time again that the corporate tax increase is an imperative, both politically and substantively and people should be paying more

money to the government. corporations should be paying more money to the government. in fact, the white house spends a lot of time telling me and other republicans that it is popular. and by the way, republicans understand that raising the corporate tax rate is popular. they're still not going to do it. so far i'm not sure if there's space for a deal here, but the white house has to be really good at compartmentalizing with the republican party, by the way, willie, that's not any way close to resembling the republican party that joe biden ew with his time onapitol hill. this is a totally different species of republican that has sprouted up in the later years of the obama administration, when he was cutting deals with mitch mcconnell and was familiar with the leadership. this party is just so different than the one he is used to dealing with in his 35/40 years in washington. >> there's no question about it. that's why all of that talk about joe biden as a dealmaker and a bipartisan senator didn't really apply to the current political climate. so, charlie sykes, is this just going to be reconciliation again? by the way, that assumes that

you can get joe manchin onboard and there would be some wiggle room with the corporate tax rate? how is this going to play out. and really, is joe biden wasting his time at this point, trying to get republicans onboard? >> well, he's not wasting his time, because there should be bipartisan support for infrastructure. there always has been. and by the way, i'm a little bit confused about this. i'm a unicorn, i'm a fiscal conservative. so is it a liberal position or a conservative position to pay for the spending that you are supporting? the republican position appears to be, yes, we're willing to spend lots of money, but we absolutely refuse to pay for it. what i think you saw yesterday was the fundamental dynamic is, they're not negotiating in good faith. if you step out of the white house meeting and you have somebody put out a fund-raising letter saying, i just met with corrupt joe biden, i think that's a pretty good tell about whether or not you have any intention of cooperating or voting to give this president a win or the country a win in any

way whatsoever. so, yeah, i think you have to go through all of this. i think you need to challenge the republicans. you know, i remember, it wasn't that long ago, right, that donald trump was in favor of infrastructure. he just wasn't interested enough in governing to do anything about it. but i don't see much reason for optimism that these guys are going to deal in good faith. >> so, thank, charlie sykes, for being on. jonathan lemire, joe biden meets with republicans again today, trying to work on different issues that he's pushing forward for the country. this strategy, i think a lot of people underestimate joe biden. that has been the story of his life. but his strategy of peace, of empathy, of trying to understand these people who at this point a lot of us have given up on. we can't stand up for people who lie. it's impossible not to say something when they're bold-faced liars. and yet this president is

finding his way to bridge the gap between democrats and republicans and make an effort to meet with them on the legislation he's working on. i would predict that people are underestimating joe biden's strategy even right now. >> yeah, i think that's right, mika. and first, i think jake's point is correct. this is obviously a very different republican party than joe biden knew when he was senator for sure, and even vice president, eight or so years ago. but there are white house officials who have some cautious optimism about today's meeting. senator capito, who's the ranking republican on matters of infrastructure, other committee chaser will be here. this is a group of republicans who have put forth an offer. they have showed a suggestion of bipartisanship. now, granted, the numbers are, the republicans are willing to pay, they're not even close in terms of the amount of spending more infrastructure, but the white house still believes there could be some common ground. that maybe they can come out of this with a little bit of momentum heading into what they

have targeted as a soft deadline at memorial day, which is now you should three weeks away, where they want to know by then roughly if there would be an ability, an appetite for an actual bipartisan deal. as i said earlier, perhaps, just on this part of it, the sort of hard structure and do the other stuff by reconciliation. but it is, indeed, possible. as much as joe biden wants to be bipartisan. and you're right, mika, he has certainly proven in the past he's able to do that. this is going to be an uphill climb. it's going to be very difficult to gather any real gop support. there's no appetite there for much in terms of this. and certainly lots of questions remain as to how to pay for it. so this is about, though, showcasing an effort at bipartisanship, even if it doesn't lead to anything, it's about reassuring the moderate democrats, about reassuring voters who might be nervous about the price tag, saying, look, these are things that are worth paying for. this is going to reshape the american government's relationship with the citizens.

we need to give it a shot. we'll try it with the republicans, but if not, we'll go it alone. >> well, in terms of the optics, while the republicans are showing who they really are, the ugly truth, joe biden is also showing who he is and using that as a backdrop. it's good politics for him. it will work. some news now on the coronavirus. the cdc advisory committee on immunization practices is recommending the pfizer vaccine for children ages 12 to 15, giving the final step necessary for states to begin vaccinating that age group. the vote was 14-0 with one abstention. cdc director rochelle walensky accepted the panel's approval clearing the way for the shot's use for the 17 million young people in age group. the children will receive the same two-dose regimen as adults and the vaccine will be a key factor in fully reopening middle

and high schools. and so, as more and more americans get vaccinated, new figures show deaths from coronavirus have fallen to their lowest level in ten months. on average, infections have fallen to about 38,000 per day. that's the lowest since mid-september of last year. it's pretty amazing. willie? >> how about this approach in ohio, mika? vaccinated ohioans will now have the a shot at $1 million. governor mike dewine is implementing a covid-19 incentive program in the form of a $1 million lottery. adult state residents who have received at least one dose will be eligible to win the money, paid for by federal coronavirus funds, starting may 26th. the winner will be announced each wednesday for five weeks. younger residents get an incentive as well. they will be entered into a drawing to win a four-year scholarship to any of ohio state's colleges and universities. whatever it takes, mika.

for a lot of people, getting this miracle drug and speeding the end of the pandemic is enough. but $1 million or a full ride to an ohio state university is not bad, either. >> i love it. i think it's fantastic. whatever it takes to get the country healthy again. coming up, black women have been called the backbone of the democratic party and our next guest says they will be a force to be reckoned with in the upcoming midterms. alexi mchammond joins us next to explain. i mchammond joins us neo explain. from prom dresses to workouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need

make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. my plaque psoriasis... ...the itching ...the burning. the stinging. my skin was no longer mine. my psoriatic arthritis, made my joints stiff, swollen... painful. emerge tremfyant™. with tremfya®, adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis... ...can uncover clearer skin and improve symptoms at 16 weeks. tremfya® is the only medication of its kind also approved for adults with active psoriatic arthritis. serious allergic reactions may occur. tremfya® may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. tremfya®. emerge tremfyant™. janssen can help you explore cost support options. sure, about this? experience capability, crafted by lexus. we're good. the remarkable gx and lx. get 0.9% apr financing on the 2021 gx 460.

experience amazing, at your lexus dealer.

you should be able to succeed here, regardless of your skin color, regardless of who you love, regardless of your documentation status, regardless of what language you speak. regardless of how you worship.

regardless of what neighborhood you live in. regardless of your health insurance status. regardless of your school district, regardless of your zip code. i want to build a city where each and every one of you feels welcome. >> that was tashora jones, the first black female mayor of st. louis giving her victory speech last month. joining us now, writer and reporter, alexi mchammond joining us to talk about the rising number of black female candidates in politics. she has a new piece for know your value.com saying, black women will be a force to be reckoned with in the 2022 midterm elections. alexi, it's great to have you back on "morning joe." and for our viewers, you may have heard of alexi and her story, because we talked about her, right here on "morning joe." it was a very lengthy segment about cancel culture and forgiveness. and if you missed it, you can

see that on our website at joe.msnbc.com. and alexi, since you weren't there, we were talking about you. before you get into your new article, would you like to say anything? >> first, mika, thank you so, so much for having me on this morning. it's so good to see you, even though we're not together in person. and i appreciate you even asking that question. the last few weeks have been really painful, to be sure, not just for me, but for many folks in the aapi community and others who were hurt by all of this. and i totally understand that. and i'm just really grateful to have the opportunity to be reporting again on the issues that i care about, to really try to lift up minority voices and the voices of folks from marginalized communities who might not get the coverage that they deserve otherwise. that's why i'm so excited to talk about this piece that you just showed that i just wrote for knowyourvalue.com. i know many folks aren't totally plugged into the 2022 midterms

just yet, but i've spoken to a number of people who are already laser focused on ensuring that democrats elect more black women not just in congress and in the senate, but in down-ballot races, too, like mayor, as you just posted that video clip of it. >> it's incredible, the numbers. by the way, i appreciate your words. it's a dialectical, which is something we're talking a lot about on the show today, talking about dbt for dummies. but the dialectical here is you can have regrets and at the same time you can have a lot to offer. and this piece is terrific. tell us, what is driving these women? whether it's democrats or republicans. >> exactly. so both democrats and republicans have black women running in various races around the country already. two things kept coming up. one was their lived experience, being a political asset for the first time to a lot of these

folks. and that's in part because the country is having a robust, substantiative conversation in a way that we just haven't before. and that goes to the highest levels. president biden and vice president kamala harris talk about those things, too, at length. that makes women on both sides of the isle feel like their lived experiences is a political asset in this time. and the other thing that i've heard is just watching the events over the last four, five, six years, many of these women who are actually running this cycle, mika, told me that they had been asked to run last cycle in 2020. some had been asked in 2018, they said, no, i didn't feel ready, i didn't feel ready. now in 2022, they feel ready. >> hey, alexi, it's willie. one of the level to get some of these candidates up into higher offices. you point out in the piece, there are no black women in the united states senate now that

kamala harris has ascended to the vice presidency. what's being done at the grassroots level to develop candidates? who's doing it and how successful do they think they can be in the short-term to move some of these candidates into prominent positions in the country? >> so good to see you, willie. and thank you for having me on this morning. you know, there would be too many groups to mention. if i were to do my due diligence and mention all of the grassroots groups during the work, but one organizations is one of the largest political organizations for black women, by black women. they really work to invest in black candidates, find them, recruit them, train them to run for office. when i talk to their president and ceo over the weekend, glenda karr, she told me that they have a plan not just for 2022, but through 2030. they're looking ahead at a ten-year strategic plan to build a pipeline of black u.s.

candidates, not just for senate and congress, but black women in particular need a little more convincing to run for office than other traditional candidates that we've seen in cycles past. so that's something that a lot of these organizes are doing on the ground. in addition to providing resources like how do you raise money? what are inventive ways to hold fund-raisers? can you run for office while being a working class mom? that's a question that a lot of candidates ask that they brought up to me, that other organizations brought up to me that they heard from folks that's a big issue. it's really kind of walking people through the personal side of what all of this means and the professional side and giving them resources that they might not be getting from the national democratic party. >> hey, alexi, it's jonathan lemire. good to see you, welcome back. this obviously highlights what a growing force -- black women are in the democratic party. but a lot was made out of the exit polls in 2020 that showed that then president trump had some surprising strengths. showed some gains among latino

voters, but also black men. and how republicans are trying to sort of move to try to further that, trying to see if that's something that was unique to trump or something that can become more of a staple of the republican party. walk us through that interesting dynamic. what does your reporting tell you about what we saw from 2020 and how that could play going forward? >> it's a great question, jonathan. and so good to see you, too. i remember reporting for axios in the beginning of the 2020 democratic primary, when there was this moment, as i'm sure you all remember from covering it, where democratic primary presidential candidates were really laser focused on trying to court black male voters. it was a clear shift from the democratic party's previous focus on black women, as mika mentioned at the top of the show, that they are often referred to as the backbone of the democratic party. but black men are not talked about in the same way. and there's been some tension that's come up, not just with voters, but with folks in the party, too, as they're trying to figure out how to make the recording for equitable and equal, but how to really talk to black men in a way that as you

just mentioned, jonathan, former president trump resonated with in various ways from the last election. one thing i've been hearing from democratic strategists just outside this story is democrats want to focus on a more populist message. take these policies they're pushing, narrow it down to a message they say to everyone across the country, but to black men and black folks in particular. and that's something to watch out for. >> so alexi, how are some of these candidates, the minority candidates using the big lie in washington, what's going on in washington with the whole trump wing of the republican party, which appears to be a lot of the republican party. are they using that at all in their strategies? is it driving them? >> yeah, earlier this week, actually, it was announced that the congressional hispanic caucus, which is mostly democrats, you know, they sent out ads targeting four republicans in heavily latino districts who voted to overturn

the results of the election. so they're really working to hold these republicans accountable who pushed the so-called big lie and really using race to their advantage, sort of targeting these latino districts as latino members saying, look, your perspective not only doesn't represent you and your lived experience, but they also are fighting against democracy. so there are a number of ad that are coming out from the chc's political arm that will be targeting republicans in that way. >> all right. nice work. alexi mchammond, thank. her new reporting is online at knowyourvalue.com and we look forward to having you back here on "morning joe" for your next piece. alexi, thank you so much for being on this morning. still ahead in the wake of the colonial pipeline hack, president biden moves to strengthen america's cybersecurity defenses. "morning joe" is coming right back. fenses or"mning joe" is coming right back

i've lost count of how many asthma attacks i've had. but my nunormal with nucala? fewer asthma attacks. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection-site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your doctor about nucala. find your nunormal with nucala.

this is our block. our place. our people. our block, it's just like yours. full of the people who shaped you. they all deserve care and access to the vaccine. no matter their address, income, or skin color. not having a ride to get the vaccine. can't be the reason you don't get it. you wanna help? donate a ride today. this is wealth. ♪ ♪ this is worth. that takes wealth. but this is worth. and that - that's actually worth more than you think. don't open that. wealth is important, and we can help you build it. but it's what you do with it, that makes life worth living.

principal. for all it's worth. ♪ ♪ we made usaa insurance for veterans like martin. when a hailstorm hit, he needed his insurance to get it done right, right away. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa

after nearly 20 years as a

fixture of daytime television, ellen degeneres has decided the upcoming 19th season of "the ellen degeneres show" will be the last. in an interview with "the hollywood reporter," degeneres said, quote, when you're a creative person, you constantly need to be challenged. and as great as this show is and as fun as it is, it's just not a challenge anymore. the longtime host says she grappled with moving on from the show for years, ultimately deciding her latest three-year contract would be the last. the show has surpassed a whopping 3,000 episodes, won 61 emmys and degeneres has conducted over 2,400 celebrity interviews. but controversy hit last year when allegations of a toxic workplace surfaced, although degeneres says it had nothing to do with her decision saying in part, quote, if i was quitting the show because of that, i wouldn't have come back this

season. with the talk show, all i cared about was spreading kindness and compassion. interesting. coming up, a fuel shortage spreads to more states in the wake of the cyber attack on that key gas pipeline. energy secretary jennifer granholm joins us. plus, republican congressman adam kinzinger on the removal of his colleague, liz cheney, from house leadership. "morning joe" is coming right back. adership "morning joe" is coming right back not everybody wants the same thing. that's why i go with liberty mutual — they customize my car insurance so i only pay for what i need. 'cause i do things a bit differently. wet teddy bears! wet teddy bears here! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ your heart is at the heart of everything you do. and if you have heart failure, there's entresto. entresto was proven superior at helping people stay alive and out of the hospital. don't take entresto if pregnant, it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. don't take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren,

or if you've had angioedema with an ace or arb. the most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure, kidney problems, or high blood potassium. ask your doctor about entresto. pain hits fast. so get relief fast. only tylenol rapid release gels have laser-drilled holes. they release medicine fast for fast pain relief. tylenol rapid release gels. ♪♪

they release medicine fast ♪ i want to see you stand up ♪ ♪ i want to feel you be proud ♪ ♪ i want to hear your beating heart ♪ ♪ live out loud ♪ ♪ you can do it on your own ♪ ♪ stand up now ♪ ♪ be proud, yeah ♪ ♪ stand up now ♪ ♪ live out loud, oh ♪♪

are you managing your diabetes... ...using fingersticks? with the new freestyle libre 2 system, a continuous glucose monitor, you cone-second scan.ucoseth, and now with optional alarms, you can choose to be notified if you go too high or too low. and for those who qualify, the freestyle libre 2 system is now covered by medicare. ask your doctor for a prescription. you can do it without fingersticks. learn more at freestyle libre 2 dot u.s. ♪♪ [sfx: kids laughing]

[sfx: bikes passing] [sfx: fire truck siren] onstar, we see them. okay. mother and child in vehicle. mother is unable to exit the vehicle. injuries are unknown. thank you, onstar. ♪ my son, is he okay? your son's fine. thank you. there was something in the road... it's okay. you're safe now. i think there's something to be said for us to unite. we probably need a fresh face. i'll stay on as majority leader, but the one thing i found in talking to everybody, if we are going to unite and be strong, we need a new face to help do that. >> if you want to know what's driving kevin mccarthy right now, just flash back to that moment in 2015, when he was forced to drop out of the race for house speaker after facing

blowback on the right. he is determined to keep that from happening again, no matter the costs. welcome back to "morning joe." it is thursday, may 13th. the ap's jonathan lemire is still with us from the white house. and joining us now, we have former chairman of the republican national committee and an msnbc political analyst, michael steele. nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of "way too early," kasie hunt is with us. and donny deutsch is with us as well. he's the host of the new podcast, launching today entitled "on brand with donny deutsch," all along with willie and me. joe will be back tomorrow and we look forward to that. after being ousted from republican leadership, congressman liz cheney is vowing to keep up the fight to break former president trump's grip on the gop. house republicans voted behind closed doors yesterday to remove cheney as conference chair in a meeting that lasted less than 20

minutes. according to a source in the room, cheney spoke to her colleagues before the vote saying in part, we must be true to our principles and to the constitution. we cannot let the former president drag us backward and make us complicit in his efforts to unravel our democracy. down that path lies our destruction. and potentially the destruction of our kasie hunt, here's your question yesterday to congresswoman cheney. >> how concerned are you nah former president trump might end up back in the oval office and what are you prepared to do to prevent that? >> i will do everything i can to ensure that the former president never again gets anywhere near the oval office. we have seen the danger that he continues to provoke with his language. we have seen his lack to have commitment and dedication to the constitution. and i think it's very important that we make sure whomever we

elect is somebody who will be faithful to the constitution. >> so, kasie, just listening to her, that's a republican. that's a true conservative. and that is someone who believes in the truth. i can't help but to think that just by standing up for herself and for the truth, that she's humiliating all of these weasely republicans who cannot help themselves but to follow this man who is not president anymore! and destroying their party and and you could argue, our country. >> well, she faced them down yesterday inside that meeting. you pointed out, it lasted not even 20 minutes. she stood up at the front while it happened and after they held this voice vote to remove her, which of course amounted to her shouting her down, essentially, she walked right up the middle of the aisle, through the, frankly, mostly male group of republicans who had decided that

they didn't want her in that position anymore. and as you heard there, liz cheney, i think, is thinking about this in the context of history, in a way that her other republican colleagues are not. kevin mccarthy is concerned about becoming speaker of the house in 2022. they, of course, need to take back the house in order for him to do that. but there's also the question of what former president trump might do and the very real concern that if, in fact, they did win, he might tell all of those people on the right, those who follow him in congress, that kevin mccarthy is not the one that he thinks should be speaker of the house. that's one piece of it. another piece that i think is really important to follow here is the january 6th commission. one thing that liz cheney has been very focused on is trying to make sure that that commission actually happens, that it is non-partisan or at least bipartisan and that it has enough power to actually learn new information. and that is apparently pretty

threatening to others in his republican conference, including potentially president mccarthy. who said, call them off and he went down to the house floor and said that president trump was at least partly to blame for the invasion of the capitol. he obviously has changed his stories since then. and congresswoman cheney has not. and this has gotten to the point, mika, where we literally saw republican members of the house at a hearing yesterday saying that the people who showed up at the capitol were tourists. i was there that day. they were not tourists. they were invaders. >> we're going to get to that in just a second, kasie. but kevin mccarthy moved from leading that vote to oust liz cheney, by the way, a voice vote so no one had to have their votes recorded for history, he moved to the white house for an oval office meeting with president biden to talk about infrastructure. and after that meeting stepped outside the white house and said, with a straight face,

this. >> i don't think anybody is questioning the legitimacy of the presidential election. i think that is all over with. we're sitting here with the president today. so from that point of view, i don't think that's a problem. of course, president trump still this week in the last couple of days saying the election was stolen. republicans falling in line. elise stefanick, the congressman from new york expected to take liz cheney's job has been talking this week about voter irregularities, and backing the republican-sanctioned recount in arizona right now, which most people believe is a sham. meanwhile, as kasie mentioned, the house oversight committee held a hearing yesterday on the january 6th attack on the capitol, in which we heard several members of the trump wing of the republican party offer blatantly false accounts of what happened that day. >> it was trump supporters who lost their lives that day, not trump supporters who were taking the lives of others. >> my constituents demand answers. but the truth is being censored

and covered up. as a result, the doj is harassing peaceful patriots across the country. >> so, was january 6th an insurrection, or could it be more accurately described as a mob of misfits? >> there was no insurrection, and to call it an insurrection in my opinion is a bald-faced lie. watching the tv footage of those who entered the capitol and walked through statutory hall showed people in an orderly fashion staying between stanchions and ropes taking pictures. if you didn't know it was from january 6th, you would think it was a normal tourist video. >> michael steele, that's absolutely disgraceful. we've watched the video for three, four months since then. you were the chair of the republican party a decade ago, which must feel like the

messosaic era it was so long ago. what do you think of what happened yesterday, first with that voice vote to throw liz cheney out, kevin mccarthy coming out of an oval office meeting, where president biden is trying, at least, to present the idea of bipartisanship, sending out a fund-raising text, calling corrupt joe biden, saying he's pushing a radical socialist agenda. and then to see those united states congressmen sit in an open hearing, in congress, and lie, push conspiracy theories, trutherism about what happened on that terrible day in january. >> well, it's just a string of situations into what the republican party now is. it's not a question of what is becoming. it is now an affirmation of what it is. what they did to liz cheney was taking it to the next and probably final step in terms of how we now begin to purge people.

push them out of leadership, push them ultimately out of the party. we only want those who agree with us. we only want those who will sell the big lie to the american people. and we only want those who with a straight face will go on camera and say, oh, yeah, you know, we're going to meet with the president, but then send out a may recall saying, yeah, i just met with the corrupt guy, and you know, send us some money. you get an idea of what the grift is, you get an idea of what the politics are. and the question now becomes -- and it goes to what kasie was saying earlier, how does this leadership, how does this party think it's going to move forward and reconcile itself with liz cheney still there in the house. she's not going anywhere. she's going to be a constant reminder of what they did and why they did it. she's going to be a constant reminder of what the party is. and she also will be a reminder along with a lot of others of us out here, of what the party

should be. and where the party should go. so there's going to be this tension. the fight isn't on yet. and we'll have adam kinzinger on later, and he can talk to you about that fight and what that looks like. and what a lot of members, both inside and outside of politics currently feel about where this party is right now. and so, it was a sad day. you can say all of that, but it's a day that was inevitable. i mean, donald trump built this coffin. the republican party willingly got in it. and he has systemically, along with their help, nailed it up. so that old party is dead. now let's deal with what we've got. and that's where we go from here. >> but, i mean, isn't what we got, is these -- well, i hate to call them republicans, if the true definition of the republican party is what it was

and represents true conservatism, those are not republicans that we just saw. aren't they lying -- at some point, lying under oath and lying to the american people. i know we're getting so used to being lied to because of president trump and this unbelievable fire hose of lies and cruelty that he spewed out of the office of the presidency, on to the american people, that we have become completely desensitized. but congressman fallon, gosar, and clyde, these are corrupt, lying politicians who are marching lockstep behind a wannabe dictator who is not even in office. this is beyond sick. and i don't understand why there's no resource. i mean, legally or in the political process, in the oversight process. how is there no recourse, michael steele? >> well, the recourse, mika, is at the ballot box. is the voters who sent them to

congress. you know, i live in maryland -- >> but if they're being lied to, michael steele, if voters are being lied to and bringing in those lies from fox and news max and donald trump and his pathetic little website, these people are being misled. >> they are, there's no doubt about that. but i can't unelect him. he doesn't represent me in his district. i don't live in his district. so it's the people in his district, the people who sent him to washington, who sent him there. that's part of this challenge. this is why what's happening at the ballot box and why -- >> but michael steele, the challenge is being -- michael, the challenge is being distorted by facebook -- >> so mika, what would you do? what would you do from new york or florida? what would you do? what would you do to a representative from texas? what would you do? >> well, first of all, i would be very concerned about the truth. if you have a representative from texas, i would stand by the

truth and the constitution and quite frankly, i would put country over any of this. they are choosing not to. but then all of their lies, they're choosing to be corrupt liars and follow this pathetic old man holding lounge acts at some place in palm beach where he has a band that's hired to support him. it's pathetic! it's pathetic the way they're acting! i can't change them. but i can support legislation that keeps places like facebook from being sued for promulgating lies. it's this sick cycle that this country is circling downward in. and i wonder why there's no recourse anywhere. >> well, again, the recourse is when you unelect them. that's where the resource ultimately lies with the american people. and until you get to that ballot box moment, that's why you have to -- you have to call it out, you have to expose it.

like liz cheney and others have been tying to do, to say that this is not what we accept nor will we stand for. so you bring that kind of pressure. you hope that the people in his district, in their districts will agree with you and when the time comes, vote them out. or that you can summon enough support to move against that particular individual, to move them out. so that's what this process is about. when you see them trying to change the ballot -- the voting laws, you understand why. because they recognize, at the end of the day, republicans like anybody else recognize they're only there because there's a vote that's behind them. when that vote is taken away, they're no longer there. so let's change the rules. let's make it harder. let's make it more complicated and difficult. let's put it under the guise of reform. but we know at the end of the day, it's about preservation. that's where the fight is now. that's what the fight is moving

into right now. and i agree with you. we have the concern, but we also have to recognize, we can only do but so much at this point, because we're not in an election cycle. we're not there yet. we've got to make the case to those voters to get them to understand exactly why this is important for their districts and why it's even more important for the country. >> kasie, to michael's point, as we watch that disgraceful display in that hearing yesterday by jodi hice, we know that's what their voters want to hear. that's where the rewards are, to support these conspiracy theories, if you want to call them that. lies might be a better way to put it, that there were just tourists walking through the capitol in an orderly fashion. that they were just misfits. they weren't trump supporters. i think officer michael fanone might have a different view of things as he was beaten within an inch of his life and pleaded

with his attackers that they spare his life because he had four daughters, and ultimately they did. what is your read as to why not only these members of congress are engaging in trutherism about january 6th in a public forum like that, but that kevin mccarthy and the leadership of the party looks the other way? >> well, first of all, thank god for officer fanone and all of the others that stood with him that day, because he saved the lives of many people, and mine including, as far as i'm concerned. and they took this head-on. you know, i can't explain it, willie. it's the thing i've been trying to explain over and over again. we spent four years ago covering the trump administration, republicans claiming that he hadn't read tweets or they hadn't seen what he'd said, essentially running from cameras. you could explain it all away, you could at least understand the argument that they were trying to make. some of them would tell me, i want to be the ballast in the ship of state, it's important i

be able to influence the president, et cetera. but i, being there on january 6th, their own house in congress was quite literally attacked. and under any normal circumstances, one would assume that one would defend one self's own house from attack. and there was a breaking point for many who were there on that day, including at the time, kevin mccarthy, who called the president, and said, you've got to take these people off our backs, these your people, these are maga people, they are not antifa, they are not anyone else. he said that to the president on the day. and he wasn't shy about telling reporters, his team wasn't shy about telling reporters that this is how he handled it at the time. and then, he has completely backtracked because they have decided that it is easier for them to win if they do not challenge the voters that they have back home. michael steele is right.

this is why this is such a problem. and it's also why what liz cheney is doing is so critical. because agree or disagree with our politics. she obviously has a different set of policy priorities from nancy pelosi or from joe biden. but she's so far one of the only people that's willing to say to these voters who are b this stuff that they shouldn't. that here's the actual truth. and many of these other republicans have looked that in the face and decided, well, okay, i'm going to try to reflect what my constituents want and what they think. but what leaders do is they step up and say, no, this is how it is. and i do think that people are willing to follow real leaders. we have not seen anyone who has been able in the republican party to stand up and take on former president trump. it didn't happen in the primary. we didn't see it happen throughout his term and

obviously not a lot of people are doing here in the wake of january 6th. liz cheney will try it. we'll see if she can convince voters that she's got the right path. >> donny, this has been painted as a split in the republican party, but the truth is, it's not even really a split. there's liz cheney, adam kinzinger, who we'll talk to live here, there's mitt romney and a handful of others and everyone else who's going along for the ride on this lie. >> it's incredible. you look at those three congressmen. and there was another tweet from a congressmen from north carolina yesterday, that sums up what i'll call the sophistication of the republican party and goes, nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah, good-bye, liz cheney. that's where they are. what's so ridiculous is, what they should be doing is saying, there's long gas lines in this country, the jobs report succeed last week, we've got violence in the middle east, we've got a hacked pipeline. like, they do have talking points and they just can't get it. one other thought about the lie

that they're talking about, i want to revisit how we talk about the big lie. because i don't think it's got enough teeth to it. the big lie sounds like it has two sides to it. it should be the failed attempt to overthrow american democracy. we need to keep saying that out loud. it was the big lie, sounds like a movie. it's too soft at this point. stop calling it the big lie and say it for what it is. failed attempt to overthrow american democracy. we've got to continue to put those words in the lexicon every day. but the republicans, they just, they're falling down and they can't get up. >> so michael steele, you know, i wasn't arguing with you, i was agreeing with you and that was just the -- it's so frustrating, though, at this point, and frightening. i try to use my words carefully, but actually, we are at that point where this is a frightening moment for the country to see so many people engaging in this behavior. >> mika, and i, along with a

whole lot of folks out here appreciate that frustration and that concern, because you do in a certain way feel helpless. you do feel somewhat like, what do i do? that's why what liz cheney did is so important. it goes exactly to the last point kasie made is why they had to take her out. she was the symbol they could not afford to have the country see. she was in a position of authority and leadership withinside that very same party that was pushing the failed attempt to overthrow the american government. and so when she spoke out against that consistently, she was giving voice to the concerns of citizens like yourself and myself and others. she became a light that people look at her and say, what'd she say? so you heard the resistance. you heard the immediate pushback. the threat that came from what

she did! i mean, when she stood there at the bank of microphones after mccarthy had gone on. i'll never forget that moment and they did this little presser and he goes on and he's waxing on and on about trump. and they ask liz cheney. and she was like, no, he tried to overthrow the government. >> yeah. plain and simple. >> and the stark contrast is what mccarthy couldn't take. because he was less of a leader than she was. everybody saw it y that reason. >> well, kevin mccarthy and these republicans that are standing in this position, they're lying about an insurrection against our country, whereas we have shown you with body cam video, with video from every angle, our flag was desecrated. our flag was used to torture capitol cops. our flag was used to break windows, to destroy and

vandalize the u.s. capitol. there was a noose being carried around for mike pence or maybe nancy pelosi. they were looking for her. they invaded her office. this all happened right before our eyes and for the members of this party, which is dissolving in terms of its true definition, they're not conservatives, and if you look at liz cheney's record, she's a republican and a conservative. and she's trying to stand up for what the party truly is or was. meanwhile, these people are in a whole different direction, and quite frankly, if you're going to lie about people's lives being taken, and our democracy being interrupted, at the very least, you're not well. you're not well. and you're corrupt as they come. jonathan lemire, what are you hearing from the white house as it pertains as to how to deal with all of this, and still try to run the country.

>> well, first, i'll say, donny, that the title of the big lie would work for a book out in fall of 2022. look, there's a chance. i'm learning from advertisers, don't miss an opportunity to plug your product. it's an important question, because it comes such at odds with this note of bipartisanship that president trump is trying to sound. how difficult it is to work with a party, the republican party, that is not operating on good faith. that has had so many members who suggested that president biden's election was valid. now, we heard yesterday, frankly, let's just call it what it is, the nonsense from leader mccarthy who came out of the white house after his meeting with president biden and said, oh, no one's been questioning the validity of the election. no one's suggesting that president biden's not president, we just met with him. that was the gist of it when he

himself and people around him, elise stefanick, she has, and we hear from former president trump on a daily beast, still doing so. and mccarthy and many other republican -- important republicans from capitol hill have all made that pilgrimage to mar-a-lago to pay their respects the former president trump. so it is a real challenge here. and it is, for president biden, he still does believe that there can be some common ground. there are some republicans he can work with. some of those around him, less certain. and certainly, there are loud voices in the democratic party that tell president biden, you're wasting your time. you're never going to be able to get a deal with these people. they have no interest in governing with you. we heard from leader mcconnell say last week that 100% of his objective is to block the administration's agenda. but at minimum, the white house is still going to want to at least make a show of it. they're going to try it. but they understand, this is an existential threat to the country. and while they might, maybe,

maybe get some -- find some common the ground on infrastructure, there are other very important topics where that's not going to happen. and the fight over voting rights, which is on the horizon, which will be a little later this year, that looms over all of this. that's going to be extraordinarily contentious and that might be the moment where the democrats blow up the filibuster. >> tough to negotiate. donny, i want to talk about on brand, the new podcast that launches today. if it's anything like having lunch with you or a text conversation with you, it's going to be fun, exciting, wildly inappropriate. i cannot wait to listen. and you've got a great guest for the debut. one of the greatest guys i know, that you know, beloved michael j. fox. >> yeah, he comes on and talks about his brand, which is all about inspiration. and what i do every week is i have a big brand, like a michael j. fox and break down the ten brands of the week. i break down what the big lie

means as a brand. elon musk is a brand. there's a black superman coming from warner brothers. i talk about, this is where politics and business and culture meet and break down the brands every week. and michael j. fox, who, please, listen, if you need to be inspired -- if you're having a bad day, it's michael j. fox. >> pretty good, donny. i love it! donny deutsch, thank you very much. look forward to it. and still ahead -- see, i'm so nice to donny. are you surprised, still ahead on "morning joe," the colonial pipeline has restarted after a cyber hack, but the supply chain for gasoline fuel isn't expect to return to normal for a few days. energy secretary jennifer granholm joins us next to talk about it. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. it you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. the truth is being censored and covered up. as a result, the doj is harassing peaceful patriots

across the country. [ chanting: hang mike pence ] >> you know, if you didn't know the tv footage was a video from january the 6th, you would actually think it was a normal tourist video. >> help! aww! >> many democrats have put forth a narrative that has been circulating around since january 6th and has never been corrected. for example, the narrative that president trump incited the riots on january 6th. >> we're going to walk down to the capitol and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them. and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ comfort in the extreme. ♪♪ the lincoln family of luxury suvs. ♪♪ [sfx: psst psst] allergies don't have to be scary.f luxury suvs.

spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! all good there's interest you accrue, and interests you pursue. plans for the long term, and plans for a long weekend. at thrivent, we believe money is a tool, not a goal. to learn more, text thrive to 444555, or visit thrivent.com. ♪ ♪ we made usaa insurance for veterans like martin. when a hailstorm hit, he needed his insurance to get it done right, right away.

usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa lactaid is 100% real milk, just without the lactose. so you can enjoy it even if you're sensitive to dairy. so anyone who says lactaid isn't real milk is also saying mabel here isn't a real cow. and she really hates that. ♪ the things, you say ♪ ♪ your purple prose just mabel gives you away ♪l cow. ♪ the things, you say ♪ ♪ you're unbelievable ♪ ♪ ♪ applebee's irresist-a-bowls are back. dig in for just $8.99. which shows will you be getting into tonight? how 'bout all of them. netflix. 'cause xfinity gets you really into your shows. when one burns for someone who does not feel the same.

daphne, let's switch. from live tv to sports on the go. felix at the finish! you can even watch your dvr from anywhere. okay, that's just showing off. you get all of this on x1. so go on, get really into your shows. you need a breath mint. xfinity. it's a way better way to watch. welcome back. our next guest has a leading

role in dealing with one of the most immediate challenges facing the country right now. the fallout from a foreign cyber attack that crippled parts of america's fuel supply. today, the largest pipeline in the nation is resuming operations after being knocked offline for nearly a week. at least 12,000 gas stations along the east coast reported being out of fuel after fears of a gas shortage led to panic buying. the russian group behind the hack claims it is not political and was demanding a ransom for stolen files. joining us now, u.s. secretary of energy, jennifer anholm. it is great to see you. thank you for on the show this morning. before we get an update on the specific attack and where that stands right now and your advice for americans, especially those who might be hoarding gasoline still, what do you know about any potential additional attacks on the horizon? >> well, here's the thing, mika.

and it's one of the reasons why the president signed an executive order yesterday on this. there are attacks all the time. every day. there are attempts to penetrate these critical systems. it's so important for businesses, governments, and individuals, too, to protect themselves. to harden their defenses against these ransomware attacks, but also other types of penetration, if you will, into their system from nefarious actors. even my 86-year-old mother had a ransomware attack on her a couple of weeks ago. so nobody is immune. nobody has total protection. this is coming on hard and strong, and people need to have their antenna up, but mostly, their cyber defenses up. >> secretary granholm, it's willie geist. good to have you on this morning. a lot of people were alarmed by

the ease with which this group was able to shut down an entire pipeline that provides almost half the gas to the east coast of this entire country. what's being done internally to prevent this from going further. most experts agree this is kind of the future of war, where a bad actor, not even a state actor, a bad actor could come in, send an email to somebody at a company, open an attachment and shut down a gas pipeline or cripple the economy. >> let me just be clear. the ransomware attackers did not actually shut the pipeline. they demanded money for -- it was the company that decided out of an abundance of caution to not further spread this ransomware attack and chose to close it down. however, this executive order, this is an example of why the president issued this executive order yesterday. it makes a big contribution toward modernizing our cybersecurity defenses by protecting at least the federal

networks, but mostly, the infrastructure that we have is privately operated. and this is why any entity now that is doing business with the federal government, whether it's an infrastructure-related entity or any other contractor doing business will have to up their game on their own cybersecurity. and make sure their supply chains also are secure. but ultimately, what we need to do as a country, so everybody, the private sector, up their game, as well. the federal government doesn't have control over all of these private sectors, and that's why we really want to lift the veil and increase visibility. and especially those who are reluctant to share information with the federal government, we want to make sure that they do. if they feel like their own company is compromised, we want to know about that so we can then protect others.

we want to make sure that the executive order is one that is targeted to the federal government, but that it's an example more what could happen on the private sector side, as well. >> secretary granholm, good morning. it's jonathan lemire. the last couple of days, we have seen images of americans starting to hoard gasoline, even at one point, pouring them into plastic bags, which we know you should not be doing to transport home in your vehicle. but we've seen fuel prices rise, we've seen real concerns about shortages. some states like yesterday in north carolina, you basically couldn't get gasoline. some stations here in washington, d.c. have run out. can you give us an update now with things hopefully returning to normal, when americans will see that in terms of both prices and supply? >> yeah, you bet. first of all, everybody knows, this is -- this was constrained to the southeast. this pipeline had gasoline in the pipeline when it shut down. and so there will be some areas

that see relief starting today. but not every area will. this is not like flipping a switch. it's a 5,500-mile pipeline. the pipeline doesn't go to gas stations itself, the pipeline goes to terminals and they have to off-load the gasoline into trucks and those trucks go to areas. a majority of the more populated areas will likely see relief in the next couple of days. the rural areas, we hope, it will seem normal, hopefully, by the end of the weekend. i want to say, you know, people have been hoard inghoarding. i understand the fear. but recognize that when you hoard, that means that you might be taking away the opportunity for somebody who is -- who needs to go to a hospital or for an essential worker to be able to get to work. this is a temporary situation. nobody needs to take on more than what they absolutely need. we've been in a situation over the last year where people have

telecommuted, et cetera. everybody needs to know that the situation will return to normal in just a couple of days, as the gasoline gets through the pipeline and then through the system. >> energy secretary jennifer granholm, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. we'll be following this developing story. coming up, there is news from overseas. we'll ask richard haas what the u.s. should be doing about the latest string of violence in the middle east. we'll be right back. g of violene middle east. we'lbel right back. as your business changes,

the united states postal service is changing with it. with e-commerce that runs at the speed of now. next day and two-day shipping nationwide, and returns right from the doorstep. it's a whole new world out there. let's not keep it waiting. sales are down from last quarter it'but we are hopingld things will pick up by q3. yeah...uh... doug? sorry about that. umm... what...its...um... you alright? [sigh] [ding] never settle with power e*trade. it has powerful, easy-to-use tools to help you find opportunities, 24/7 support when you need answers plus some of the lowest options and futures contract prices around. don't get mad. get e*trade and start trading today.

from prom dresses to workouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. limu emu... and doug. so then i said to him, you oughta customize your car insurance with liberty mutual, so you only pay for what you need. oh um, doug can we talk about something other than work, it's the weekend. yeah, yeah.

[ squawk ] hot dog or... chicken? [ squawk ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

israel has a right to defend itself when you have thousands of rockets flying into your territory, but i had a conversation for a while with the prime minister of israel and i think that my hope is that we'll see this coming to a conclusion sooner than later. >> president biden yesterday commenting on the new violence

between israeli forces and palestinian militants, as air raid sirens blared across te aviv again early this morning. palestinian militants have launched over 1,000 rockets since sunday. the israeli military have responded by launching the bombardment of gaza, leveling at least two high rise buildings. now the fighting has spilled into the streets. israeli police reported what they called violent riots and some mixed arab israeli cities overnight, with 270 people arrested and synagogues and businesses set on fire. at least 90 people have been killed since the violence broke out last week. the gaza health ministry has reported at least 83 palestinians dead, including 17 children. israeli authorities have reported at least seven people killed. in a moment, we will speak with

president of the counsel on foreign relations, richard haas about this. but first, nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley reports on how president biden has inherited a different relationship with israel than the one in place when he left office as vice president. >> reporter: joe biden seems to be doing everything he can to set himself apart from the trump administration. >> america is back. diplomacy is back at the center of our foreign policy. >> but when it comes to foreign policy in israel, trump has left biden with precious few options. this is where trump made some of his most consequential plays. he moved the u.s. embassy from jerusalem to tel aviv, recognized israeli sovereignty of the golan heights and helped normalize relations with israel and four foreign countries. >> you have yet to see the biden

team invest in a different approach to promote palestinian statehood. it feels as if that's an issue that they see as perhaps a political loser and perhaps an impossible job at this point. >> among his more controversial steps, trump gave israel carte blanche to expand jewish settlements in land occupied by israel in the west bank. settlements considered illegal under international law and we the u.s. government before the trump administration. it's still early. biden is focused on the pandemic and domestic policy. and biden has restored more than $200 million in aid to the palestinians that had been suspended by trump. but while he's appointed envoys to iran and yemen, he hasn't appointed one for peace talks. in a statement, the national security council said there's no plan to appoint an envoy, but the biden administration is committed to negotiating a two-state solution.

the u.s. embassy will quote, remain in jerusalem, which rerecognize as israel's capital. but on settlements, biden has been bitten once, so he might be twice shy. while biden was there were authorities announced a large enlargement of a settlement. it was widely seen as a slap in the face to the obama administration. >> it was incredibly frustrating, because we were trying to get meaningful peace talks going between israelis and palestinians. and settlement expansions were always the most provocative thing on the side. >> netanyahu officials insist the settlements aren't illegal. they call them neighborhoods. flora nahhum, a senior member of netanyahu's party helped negotiate the so-called abraham accords with arab states. >> president biden has been a friend of israel for over 40 years. he's been here. he understands what's going on. he understands the conflict. so i'm an opt mist.

>> this is an ultra-orthodox jewish neighborhood build on land and annexed from the palestinians. as you can see, the construction is still ongoing and it comes right up to the border with the palestinian neighborhood. >> the settlement was founded in 1995 by the movement whose headquarters are in the u.s. >> this movement is so spiritually connected to america, they built a replica of their brooklyn yashiva right here in america. ely is one of the first to develop it in the '90s. he and his wife are optimistic that biden and the world have lost interest in the conflict. netanyahu is still in power and joe biden is back. how do you feel now? >> i think they both got older and smarter, so i think it's going to help us. i think the palestinian issue, it becomes less and less international interest.

the peace process we've made. you see it from the money that comes from palestinians to the arab states. >> but the conflict is still of interest to people here. it is partly built on land that they owned long before. the israel seized the land with its war with jordan in 1967. he's watched american presidents come and go. like many other palestinians, he sees both democrats and republicans as equally weak advocates for their cause. you think he won't make in changes here? >> no, no, he can't. i follow his -- his -- what he's saying. to satisfy the netanyahu and others. >> sheik islam says he in many ways prefers trump, because the former president was up-front about his support for israel. >> you've lived through many american presidents. >> yeah. >> many americans presidents. have any of them done anything

different. >> no. >> always the same >> always the same. >> so you're not expecting anything else. >> anything. >> reporter: matt bradley, nbc news, jerusalem. >> joining us now, president of the council on foreign relations, richard haas. he's author of the newly revised edition of "the world: a brief introduction," now available if paperback. richard, we'll get to the big picture here in just a moment in the united states' role, but let's talk about what's happening there this week. you had a raid by israeli police on the third holiest site in islam in jerusalem on monday that they responded by launching rockets and the israeli military responds by firing missiles and conducting air strikes inside gaza. what's going on right now and where is this headed?

>> morning, willie. you're exactly right. you've got multiple fault lines, which to some extent are playing off one another and to some extent they're separate. the most violent and biggest is the one one between israel and gaza. the can question there, it's not a diplomatic question so much as whether deter rants can be established. then you have the question of what's going on in jerusalem, the resettling of neighborhoods, taking of buildings, the use of armed force, and the question there is simply whether we can pull back from the brink. i think israeli forces need to show greater professionalism there. what might be the most worrisome issue of all, willie, and it is one that is profound is israel's population consistent of nearly 2 million arabs. and they are citizens. what we're beginning to see for one of the first times in

israel's history is street conflict, person to person conflict between jewish israeli citizens and arab israeli citizens and that is something that has profound implications for the fabric of this society. and what we have now are multiple things going on. they're feeding off one another, but they have separate histories and separate dynamics. >> yeah. a lot of what we're seeing right now, as you say, richard, is not cross border, it's within israel. so what should be the role of the united states here? obviously, the biggest supporter in the world of israel. president biden said yesterday israel has the right to defend itself which, of course, it does. what should the united states be doing? what role sdooit play? should it play? >> the answer is we have very little role to play. you had that poignant four to five-minute speech you just played. the reality is this israeli government has come to the conclusion that it doesn't need to pay great heed to the united states. but even if an american president were to disagree, they

believe they can work with congress, they believe they can work with jewish supporters of israel around the united states, to have angelical supporters. the united states does not have a whole lot of leverage. what's more, our biggest emphasis over the years has been classic peace making, to promote a so-called two-state solution, but right now, the palestinians are divided. what lit the fuse of everything we're seeing is the cancellation of elections by the palestinians in the west bank. and in gaza, you have hamas and what you're essentially seeing is them making a bid for the leadership of palestinians. not just in the gaza strip, which they have, but all palestinians. and as a result, the united states simply doesn't have any of the pieces to work with in order to launch a diplomatic mission and that's why you don't see us having an envoy. we could appoint anybody as an envoy tomorrow. i'm not sure who he or she would talk with. i'm not sure what he or she

could accomplish. >> hey, richard, it's jonathan. why don't i get you to take a half step back. how are the revocations of this conflict playing out elsewhere in the middle east right now. we have seen it and what is considered by most to be at least a modest international accomplishment for the trump administration was have been brokening normalization of relations with israel and a handful of other countries there. there seems to be some optimism on peace. how destabilizing is this? what are you seeing inspect how are you seeing this play out elsewhere in the middle east? >> it's a good question. what the trump administration did was it improved one of the axises in the middle east between several of the sunni arab states, the uae and so forth working and filling in the history side of egypt and jordan, establishing relations with israel. but what we're seeing is two other things going on. one, this is a reminder that the palestinian issue has not been resolved, to say the least. and this potentially,

potentially could get in the way of israel's normalization with the arab states, particularly if there's greater violence in holy places in jerusalem. so the so-called abraham, of course, they're important, but one should not assume that somehow they are immune from being upset or undermined by what we're seeing going on in jerusalem and more broadly. the other thing is obviously the question of iran. and there you have israel and some of these same arab states worried about other things iran is doing around the middle east including, by the way, supporting hamas, the group israel is in conflict with. so the group that the middle east was somehow put to rest by force of these peace agreements, as welcome as they were, they are simply part of the puzzle. and the danger now, if this thread of the palestinians gets pulled violently. >> richard has, thank you very much for coming on this morning.

we'll be following this. up next from lying about the january 6th capitol attack to voting liz cheney out of house leadership, republicans confirm their number one priority is pleasing donald trump. congressman adam kinzinger joins us with his thoughts, next on "morning joe." "morning joe." there's interest you accrue, and interests you pursue. plans for the long term, and plans for a long weekend. at thrivent, we believe money is a tool, not a goal.

to learn more, text thrive to 444555, or visit thrivent.com. my name is austin james. as a musician living with diabetes, fingersticks can be a real challenge. that's why i use the freestyle libre 14 day system. with a painless, onesecond scan i can check my glucose without fingersticks. now i'm managing my diabetes better and i've lowered my a1c from 8.2 to 6.7. you can do it without fingersticks, too. ask your doctor for a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system. and visit freestyle libre.us to try it for free. ♪ ♪ we know it's going to take many forms of energy to meet the world's needs while creating a cleaner future for all. at chevron, we're lowering the carbon emissions intensity of our operations, investing in lower-carbon technologies, and exploring renewable fuels of the future. we work hard to care for the homes we love.

but it's only human... to protect the one we share. ahhh! get out of here mouse. ahhh! ♪♪ don't flex your pecs. terminix. hooh. that spin class was brutal. well you can try using the buick's massaging seat. oohh yeah, that's nice.

can i use apple carplay to put some music on? sure, it's wireless. pick something we all like. ok. hold on. what's your buick's wi-fi password? “buickenvision2021.” oh, you should pick something stronger. that's really predictable. that's a really tight spot. don't worry. i used to hate parallel parking. [all together] me too. - hey. - you really outdid yourself. yes, we did. the all-new buick envision. an suv built around you... all of you. in business, it's never just another day. it's the big sale, or the big presentation. an suv built around you... the day where everything goes right. or the one where nothing does. with comcast business you get the network that can deliver gig speeds to the most businesses and advanced cybersecurity to protect every device on it— all backed by a dedicated team, 24/7. every day in business is a big day. we'll keep you ready for what's next. comcast business powering possibilities.

i never thought i would be pro cheney in any way, but it has happened. she said last night republicans must speak the truth, the election was not stolen. so she had to go. you can't have republicans going around saying biden won the election. people might get the right idea. >> house republicans voted to kick liz cheney out of her leadership role. yeah.

republicans haven't turned on someone this fast since they tried to murder mike pence. you can tell dick can china ny was upset when he offered to take house minority leader kevin mccarthy on a hunting trip to talk it over. after the vote, liz cheney said she doesn't want trump to get near the oval office ever again. yeah, it's not that hard, actually. all you have to do is hang a sign outside that says just salad. >> good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, may 13th. it would be funny, but it's all true along with willie and me. we have co-founder of punch bowl news, jake sherman. he's ansnbc political contributor. white house report either for the associated press, jonathan lamere and founder of the conservative website the bullwork, an author of how the right lost its mind, which is a question we need to answer today. charlie sikes. joe will be back tomorrow. we'll dive right in.

after being ousted from republican leadership, congresswoman liz cheney is vowing to keep up the fight to break former president trump's grip on the gop. house republicans voted behind closed doors yesterday to remove cheney as conference chair for telling the truth in a meeting that lasted less than 20 minutes. according to a source in the room, cheney spoke to her colleagues before the vote saying in part, we must be true to our principles and to the constitution. we cannot let the former president drag us backward and make us complicit in his efforts to unravel our democracy. down that path lies our destruction. and potentially the destruction of our country. the kwong woman spoke to reporters after the vote, including our own kasie hunt. >> how concerned are you that former president trump might end up back in the oval office? what are you prepared to do to prevent that?

>> i will do everything i can to ensure that the former president never again gets anywhere near the oval office. we have seen the danger that he continues to provoke with his language. we have seen his lack of commitment and dedication to the constitution. and i think it's very important that we make sure whomever we elect is somebody who will be faithful to the constitution. >> do you feel betrayed by today's vote? >> i do not. i think that it is an indication of where the republican party is and i think that the party is in a place that we've got to bring it back from and we've got to get back to a position where we are a party that can fight for conservative principles, that can fight for substance. we cannot be dragged backward by the very dangerous lies of a former president. thank you. >> and congresswoman cheney was removed from leadership by a voice vote, meaning none of those republicans had to record for history the way they voted there. just hours after vote to go remove liz cheney from house

leadership, minority leader kevin mccarthy stood outside the white house after a meeting with president biden and actually said this. >> i don't think anybody is questioning the legitimacy of the presidential election. i think that is all over with. we're sitting here with the president today. so from that point of view, i don't think that's a problem. >> president trump and many other republicans of course are questioning the outcome of the election. the fact is, mccarthy along with 146 other republicans all voted on january 6th, the same date the capitol was attacked by insurrectionists who wanted to overturn the election, they voted not to certify that joe biden had, in fact, won. and even four months later now, many republicans are still hesitant to say publicly that president biden won legitimately. that includes likely successor to liz cheney's republican leadership post congresswoman elise stefanik who claimed last week election officials engaged

in unprecedented, unconstitutional overreach. she voiced her support for the baseless recount in the state of arizona under way right now. charlie sikes, a breath taking day for congressional republicans. when you look at the vote itself, a voice vote to oust liz cheney. kevin mccarthy saying no one is questioning the outcome of the election. we'll get to this later, but several republicans in a congressional hearing basically engaging in january 6th trutherism saying what you saw happen didn't happen. it was a group of tourists moving through the capitol. we'll get to that later. but your thoughts about what you saw play out yesterday? >> well, it seems like an old story, but it all came together yesterday. what happened with liz cheney by the republican caucus was coward lid. it was dishonest and it was politically stupid and kevin mccarthy is now deciding that his best strategy is to lie about the lie. the contrast between liz cheney

standing on principle not backing down is extraordinary. you mentioned some of the other things that were said yesterday. i'm so struck by the fact that you have, you know, this congressman from georgia who says that what happened on january 6th was just tourists peacefully walking through the capitol. they're not going to sanction him. there's no controversy within the republican caucus about him. but liz cheney, who has said do not whitewash the insurrection, who has said the election was legitimate, was thrown out. they did not have the courage, either to show up and listen to her final speech on the floor of the house, which was remarkable. they did not have the courage to have an open vote or to have a recorded vote. that was cowardly. and it's profoundly stupid because a serious party would have been talking about some of the issues facing the country yesterday and, instead, what is kevin mccarthy doing? he is, you know, having the entire news cycle overtaken by

his percentage of liz cheney. and i think that, you know, we are seeing the republican party -- by the way, the other reason it's stupid, of course, is that he's managed to raise liz cheney's profile dramatically. she is far more prominent today than she was a week ago. so if he thought he was putting an end to this, that was delusional. and one last point, that comment that no one is questioning in the election, has he paid any attention to what the former guy is saying on a daily basis down in the orange versailles. he's embracing one crazy conspiracy theory after another. here is a party that cannot tolerate liz cheney, cannot even have a vote on liz cheney, an open vote, but continues to be in the thral of this guy who continues to deny that he lost the election and appears to be

embracing weird notions of somehow overturning the election. so the crazy, the stupid and the dishonest, very strong in the republican party yesterday. >> it was a vote on the truth. and i used the words revisionist history and delusional. this is what leads to the down fall of a democracy and can it can't be put lighter. when you have a group of people who run a party, a political party, one of two main political parties who are acting in a delusional way. it's so dangerous. and liz cheney is just trying to tell the truth and trying to warn them that their lies, their bold faced lies are hurting this country and are putting this country in danger and putting this country in danger around the world, destroying our place in the world. kevin mccarthy is a bold faced liar and all the republicans standing behind him in lock step and elise stefanik, they have made that choice to be boldfaced

liars to the american people. the house oversight committee held a hearing on the january 6th attack on the capitol. people are going to jail for the crimes they committed that day in which we heard several members of the trump wing of the republican party offer blatantly false accounts of what happened that day. >> it was trump supporters who lost their lives that day, not trump supporters who were taking the lives of others. >> my constituents demand answers, but the truth is being censored and covered up. as a result, the doj is harassing peaceful patriots across the country. >> so was january 6th an insurrection or could it be more accurately described as misfits. >> there was no insurrection. watching the tv footage of those who entered the capitol and walked through statuary hall showed people in an orderly fashion staying between the staunchons and ropes.

if you didn't know the tv foot eej was a video from january 6th, you would think it was a normal tourist visit. >> that, of course, is a lie. and up next, we will play newly released video who proves exactly that. those so-called tourists attack police officer who were left begging for their lives. ack police officer who were left begging for their lives. pilot over radio: here we go, let's do this. ♪♪ pilot over radio: right there, right there. [sfx: revving trucks] pilot over radio: g complete. how do you introduce the larger-than-life gmc yukon? with the world's biggest tweet. the next generation gmc yukon. premium that's made to be used. limu emu... and doug. the next generation gmc yukon. so then i said to him, you oughta customize your car insurance with liberty mutual, so you only pay for what you need. oh um, doug can we talk about something

other than work, it's the weekend. yeah, yeah. [ squawk ] hot dog or... chicken? [ squawk ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ it's my 5:52 woke-up-like-this migraine medicine. it's ubrelvy. for anytime, anywhere migraine strikes, without worrying if it's too late, or where i am. one dose can quickly stop my migraine in its tracks within two hours. unlike older medicines, ubrelvy is a pill that directly blocks cgrp protein, believed to be a cause of migraine. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. most common side effects were nausea and tiredness. ask about ubrelvy. the anytime, anywhere migraine medicine. i was drowning in student loan debt. i was in the process of deferring them, paying them... one of my interest rates went up to 9%. which is atrocious. then i discovered sofi.

completely changed my life. lower interest rate. my principal is going down. sofi is a place where you can start to tackle those money goals today. compared to where i was three years ago, i'm kinda killing it. ♪♪ i'm kinda killing it. hey lily, i need a new wireless plan for my business, but all my employees need something different. oh, we can help with that. okay, imagine this... your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot.

we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee... yeah i should've just led with that... with at&t business... you can pick the best plan for each employee and only pay for the features they need.

last night, cnn aired new body cam footage showing when insurrectionists attacked at the capitol. a warning, this is very difficult to watch. >> i've got one. [ bleep ]. >> i got one. >> easy.

[ bleep ]. >> go home. [ bleep ]. >> i got it. >> don't hurt him. don't hurt him. don't hurt him. >> no, we're better than this. >> hold it. i got you. i got you. i got him. >> you can't do this. why the [ bleep ] -- [ bleep ]. >> let him through, let him through, let him through.

i got you, man. >> don't hurt him. don't hurt him. don't hurt him. >> you're safe. >> what's your name, man? i got you, man. i got you. which way do you want to go? >> i want to go back inside. >> jake sherman, i just wonder if congressman clyde, if his constituents consider that a normal day, if that's a peaceful, normal day and cosar and fallon, the congressman saying that that was not what happened. how stupid do they think the american people are? but even more so, why can't they just tell the truth and how does

anything get gone on capitol hill if you have to work with people who stand up for a criminal act? >> a few thoughts. i don't have the words or the emotions to adequately respond to this because it's such a lie. as you guys know, because i've known you for much of this time, i've been covering congress for 12 years in the capitol nearly every work day in that period. and was there on january 6th. there was nothing about that day that was anything remotely close to a regular day. no one was -- between the stanchions? i can't even put into words how ridiculously stupid those comments are and how illlogical and stupid they are. to be blunt, these are not even marginal players in the house of representatives. these are nonfactors. these people are back bench rank and file members that 90% of --

you know, 60% of the congress, they don't even pass them by in the hallway, don't even know their names. so, yes, they are members of congress. they have a vote. but they are not involved in any sort of legislating in any way, shape or form. but listen, in part, to bring this full circle, liz cheney was pushed out because she was willing to speak what a lot of republicans and what factually were uncomfortable truths about january 6th and about the election. and even republicans that agree with her suggest that it was distracting and although they agreed with her, they didn't want to bring it up and they didn't want to talk about it on a regular basis. so that is the republican party on capitol hill right now. and that's the party that is fi time since losing it in 2018. so, you know, this is -- and frankly, we'll have to see,

mika, if this party is ever able to move beyond this. because they have given liz cheney a megaphone. this is dominating the front page of every major newspaper in america today. republicans were trying to move on from liz cheney. instead, they have emboldened her and given her a megaphone. >> it may be too much to ask you to explain what remains inside the heads of those congressmen of what we just watched there. we all watched it happen on live tv. jake was in the building. he watched it happen with his own eyes. what is going on? what is the rot at the center of the republican party that allows people to think these things, to express these things and then to have leadership look the other way when people say in an open congressional hearing that what we all saw happened on 1-6 didn't happen, that it was peaceful, they were just

misfits, they were behavioring in an orderly fashion? a normal tourist visit was one way it was described by andrew clyde. it's dishonorable, unpatriotic and it's just lies. what is going on in the republican party? >> well, you used the word "rot." i'm tempted to say not much is going on, but the reality is those congressmen know they were they will be rewarded for all that, that there will be no sanctions for lying about this or this revisionist history. and the term revisionist history doesn't seem strong enough. it feels like something authoritarian regime where you simply rewrite the history books and write out certainly people who have become politically incorrect. but the extent of the lie is extraordinary especially because, as you pointed out, we were there. we saw it. those images are still so graphic. all you need to do is put them side by side. so it's an indication of how divorced from any sort of

realtor allegiance to the truth the republican party has become. but i think what they're counting on is they're counting on the alternative reality silos of the right wing media ecosystem to either ignore the lie or find a way to rationalize it. well, it wasn't so bad. this is called ret conning. you simply rewrite the history. you pretend that what happened didn't happen and you put your own spin on it. but this is -- you know, for a party that has been devolving, yesterday was extraordinary in so many respects and you can only imagine what it will be like if kevin mccarthy and those guys take the majority next year. coming up, republican congressman adam kinzinger joins the conversation on the heels of liz cheney's ouster as gop conference chair. that's next on "morning joe." n.

cal: our confident forever plan is possible with a cfp® professional. a cfp® professional can help you build a complete financial plan. visit letsmakeaplan.org to find your cfp® professional. ♪♪ is now a good time for a flare-up? enough, crohn's! for adults with moderate to severe crohn's or ulcerative colitis... stelara® can provide relief and is the only approved medication to reduce inflammation on and below the surface of the intestine in uc. you, getting on that flight? back off, uc! stelara® may increase your risk of infections, some serious, and cancer. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you have an infection... flu-like symptoms, sores, new skin growths, have had cancer, or if you need a vaccine. pres, a rare, potentially fatal brain condition, may be possible.

some serious allergic reactions and lung inflammation can occur. lasting remission can start with stelara®. if you've been financially impacted by covid-19, janssen may be able to help. new projects means new project managers. if you've been financially impacted by covid-19, you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. the moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a short list of quality candidates from our resume database. claim your seventy five dollar credit, when you post your first job at indeed.com/home. this is how you become the best! [music: “you're the best” by joe esposito] [music: “you're the best” by joe esposito] [triumphantly yells] [ding] don't get mad. get e*trade and take charge of your finances today.

oh! don't burn down the duplex. terminix. this academic year has been, um, challenging. but i think there's so much success to celebrate. woman: it's been a year like no other. man: yet, for educators across california, the care, compassion, and teaching has never stopped. woman: addressing their unique needs...

man: ...and providing a safe learning environment students could count on. woman: join us in honoring the work of educators. together, we will build a better california for all of us. republicans are about winning. if we're going to win, we can't say oh, my gosh, we got more votes than anyone in republican history, but 7 million votes for

a democrat. we've got to be 7 million ahead, not 7 million behind. >> right. if he's the nominee, would you vote for him? >> he's not going be our nominee. >> republican senator bill cassidy of louisiana on a fox news radio predicting a future for the party without former president trump. that declaration came just moments after the house republican conference ousted congresswoman liz cheney from hurry leadership for speaking out against the former president. after the vote, "today's," savannah guthrie spoke with congresswoman cheney. here is some of that interview which aired this morning. >> 70% of the republican party right now believes president trump's lies about the election. so if you're out of lock step with the party, why should you be in leadership? >> leadership is about leading and it's about telling the truth. and it's about making sure that

people understand how important these fundamental principles are. and i think that that is incumbent upon anybody who is elected, upon anybody who is in leadership is to tell the truth. >> will you run for re-election? >> absolutely. >> do you think you can win? >> absolutely. >> the trump political team is actively looking to coalesce around a primary challenger to you. what is your message to them? >> you know, bring it on. i -- as i said, if they think that they're going to come into wyoming and make the argument that the people of wyoming should vote for someone who is loyal to donald trump over somebody who is loyal to the constitution, i welcome that debate. >> do you think leader mccarthy has placed his own am bigs to be speaker of the house above principle? >> i think that he is not leading with principle right now. and i think that it is -- it's sad and i think it's dangerous. >> what did it mean when kevin mccarthy, days after the january 6th riots and insurrection, went

down to mar-a-lago and visited with president trump? >> leader mccarthy's visit to the former president at mar-a-lago was stunning. you know, given what the former president did, he's not just a former president, you know? he provoked an attack on the capitol, an attack on our democracy. and so i can't understand why you would want to go rehabilitate him. >> are you the leader of the opposition in exile right now in the republican party? >> i intend to be the leader -- one of the leaders in a fight to help to restore our party, in a fight to bring our party back to substance and principles, and in a fight to make clear that we won't participate in a really dangerous effort that is under way. >> a lot of people frame this as a battle for the soul of the republican party. but you're out of office, trump is descendant. hasn't that battle been waged and won?

>> actually, i'm in office and oout he's out of office. >> fair. you're out of your leadership office. >> that is true, but, no, look, this is the opening salvo in that battle. and it's a battle we have to win because it's not just about the republican party. it's about the country. >> cheney says she will do whatever it takes to keep president trump from unraveling our democracy, including a run for president herself if necessary. joining us now, adam kinzinger and kasie hunt. representative kinzinger, you stand with liz cheney. where do you see this going? i'm at a loss of words as to how to comprehend the many republicans who turn their back on her, who voted her out, and are doing it for lies against

the truth. i think this is a new level that we're at, but perhaps you could put it into words better than me. >> no, i mean, i think -- i'm about as speechless as you are. the first thing to keep in mind is we don't know how many members voted against her because kevin mccarthy did his little voice vote unity crap, you know, to make it look like it was unanimous because i honestly think she may have been retained or at least it would have been close and he can now go out and say we're unified and we're past cheney. look, kevin went to mar-a-lago a couple weeks after january 6th and he put these paddles on donald trump, resurrected him to life. now cheney has been consistent. she said the same thing that kevin mccarthy said in january. she's just been consistent. and then to watch yesterday, some of the -- i didn't even know congressman clyde was a

congressman. this party is sick and this party needs help and if we're not willing to stand up and put it all on the line for that, this party knot going to be around in the future. >> so the washington post reported that the republican leaders withheld polling data from you and other republican members at a retreat that showed trump's unfavorbility ratings were a shocking 15 points under water in core districts and the party, you know, that they need to retake the house. how do you respond to the nrcc caring more about covering for an ex president than helping republican members get re-elected? i mean, this is like a sickness that runs deep. and the only thing that explains something like this, from my point of view, is reading like madeleine albright's book about fascism or reading books about cults. >> yeah. it's like something you would

see out of north korea. don't make the dear leader mad. that's what it feels like. look, if you're paying the nrcc dues to the committee, they need to tell you everything they have, including the bad numbers. these are decisions that members have to make. and instead, we are so scared to death of donald trump. by the way, donald trump just made liz cheney even more of a national figure than she ever was. she's brave. i've always admired her. but he made her the leader of that and i think he's basically created something that he should be very afraid of, which is somebody that is going to tell the truth. next to donald trump, which somebody tells the truth, it's pretty obvious. so, look, we're at a bad place in this party, no doubt about that. but this party and people in this country demand the truth. might be small at first, but maybe mighty in the long run.

>> that's a lonely table right now, but maybe you'll add some members. i'm curious to hear about your situation. what we hear over and over again is a lot of republicans are saying things publicly they don't believe because they know it's what voters want to hear. we look at your district. donald trump won there in 2020, that district, by about 15 points. you've been very publicly critical and were very publicly critical of donald trump. you won by 30 points in your district. what do you say to some of those members who say, boy, i can't criticize donald trump at all or i'm going to lose my seat? >> yeah. that's true. the only one i think that has not outperformed donald trump in their district was matt gates and people like that, honestly, got the same number at donald trump. if you look at any other member of congress, they usually beat trump by two or three and people like me won -- even beat him by a far bigger margin. i think the less amount of that is people still vote for you if they believe you believe what you're saying.

i mean, you can disagree with me all day long, but i think there's a lot of people that still vote for me because they know what i'm saying is what i believe. and if you're out there just trying to toe the party line and pretending january 6th was a whole decade ago so why are we still talking about it and ignoring michael finne's interview who i've become good friends with. by the way, he tried to call and meet with the minority leader, kevin mccarthy. he was hung up on. mccarthy has never watched his interview as far as i know and going around defending president trump. i don't get it, but, look, the bottom line, i'm at peace doing the right thing and that's a good place to be. >> you mentioned officer fanone. krn got new body cam footage in of disgusting, appalling and a near death experience for him. he was on the ground pleading for his life while he's being beaten. you see one of the attackers here saying i got one, talking

about a police officer. someone stepped in and ultimately saved his life as he begged for it. as he talked about his kids and said, please, i have kids and said later he thought about his four daughters and how they were going to go on without him. but as you listened to those congressmen yesterday in the outsight committee saying these were just tourists, they were peaceful protesters, they were a bunch of misfits wandering around the capitol, what do you do with that? these people were there. they know what happened. so now they're just spouting a conspiracy theory. they're truthers about that day. they're lying about that day. what do you do with members like that? >> you know, the sad news is, they can go on whatever media outlet and say that and not be questioned. so that's what they'll do. they'll go to their media corner that won't question them that wants to echo that conversation. same reason kevin mccarthy only does one tv station at all

because he doesn't want to take the tough questions. so i guess all you can do is keep calling that out as ludicrous. we sometimes assume that everybody just knows, but keep in mind, if you're a base republican voter and every one of the people you trust is saying january 6th didn't happen and the election was stolen, we can't really blame them for believing that. yes, she shouldn't believe it, but when all their leaders are lying to them, of course there's going to be many that believe it. that's why sadly there's only a few of us, but we have to keep telling the truth. i've known mike finone. when he watch him screaming in that video, that is not the typical mike finone who is a tough dude. to see him at that level is to see him afraid for his life. all those thoughts go through your head very quickly, including i'm going to die and all that stuff. it's terrible to see. but he's been a hero to speak up about it. >> absolutely.

kasie hunt is here with a question for you. >> congressman, good to see you. liz cheney talked to our colleague, savannah guthrie. we showed a little bit of that. but i want to ask you specifically about one comment that she made. she talked about the january 6th commission, which you still haven't been able to find bystart san agreement on. cheney says i've been very public about the commission and saying it needs to look only at january 6th and the events leading up to it. and she says that intense narrow focus threatens people in my party who may have been playing a role that they should not have been playing. what do you know about what she's talking about there? who has threatened and particularly what was kevin mccarthy's role and any of your concerns about it? >> i think all that stuff is in question. so with kevin, we know at one point that he claims to have talked to the president and yelled at him. and then later, of course, he was defensive and said, well, the president put out a video. i think there's some real questions there kevin recently said that when he

talked to the president, the president had no clue that this was happening and then did the video. well, let's think about this. supposedly he had called a senator and told him to continue objecting. that senator told him what was going on, that vice president cheney was being hidden. and so you look at all that and you go, something doesn't make sense. plus, that's going to find out who was talking to these groups prior. what coordination had happened? i agree with liz, if we want to start bringing, you know, blm into this and start bringing ante if a, all we're doing is trying to have false equivalency to what happens on january 6th. i was against the riots this summer, right? but that didn't threaten democracy. january 6th, you had the number 2, 3 and 4 person in line of the presidency all within striking distance of a mob. i think what led up to there,

who coordinated with who, and if some of my colleagues were involved in that, they should have thought about it before they became involved in an insurrection. >> michael. >> mika and i have a discussion earlier and at the core of it was frustration and angst about where we are as a nation and why our party is playing the role it is playing right now. could you speak to the american people about their frustration in watching this once proud party sink as low as it has and to engage in the level of fascism, white nationalism and the kind of purging that we just witnessed yesterday with liz cheney? because i think that's a real -- that's a real drum beat for a lot of americans right now. they don't understand. and you touched a little bit on

your own personal feelings and looking around and seeing members and saying, is this guy on our team or what? so how do we process what we see happening right now with the republican party? >> well, look, the republican party and the democratic party are just -- it's just a big group of people that make decisions. that's it. there's no massive kind of behind smoke filled rooms partying machinery. and right now, people are intimidated by donald trump. yeah. and that's just -- we have to recognize that. but if you are a once proud republican or you're somebody that's concerned about this, you have a role to be involved in bringing the narrative of politics back. you know, we can't be the first generation that leaves our kids a country worse off than the ones we inherited or a political system worth off. we can take back this power. so vote in primaries. i know primaries stink sometimes and we should reform the whole system, but for now, vote in a primary, right? make sure the right people that are going to represent you get

through. you know, i started the whole country movement and i'll make a plug, country1st.com, and that's all about taking the narrative and putting the country before the party. if enough people do that, we'll take this back. so i'm optimistic long-term, but on the short-term, people are going to have to get ticked off enough to do something about it. and that doesn't mean looking at leaders to fix it. it means become ago leader and having an impact. we can do this on either party. >> congressman, it's kasie hunt again. my question to you, if the gop does win back the house in 2022, do you think that kevin mccarthy will become speaker of the house or will he have problems winning that role? >> he'll have trouble winning my support for that role. i don't know how many are like me. it depends what the size of the

majority is. but i think, look, i think it's probably a good shot that we take the majority just because of, you know, history. also, i do think taking out liz cheney yesterday makes it less likely that we win the majority, but i think if we do win it, the lesson cannot be that it was our embrace of trumpism. the lesson is that people just like divided government, but they don't like authoritarian figures. can he win? i don't know. probably more than likely to turn on kevin mccarthy is the whole freedom club, right? the jim jordans who are trying to cozy up to kevin right now and he's cozying up on him and they're going so stab him in the back like they do every time. it will be interesting to watch. >> they model after their leader who is the king of just throwing people under the bus whenever he feels like it, crushing them. how about the people who ran to the capitol for him and ran

around like crazy idiots. they're now going to jail for this guy. he doesn't care about them. congressman adam kinzinger, thank you so much. thank you for holding the line. still ahead, president biden weighs in on the infighting among republican lawmakers over congresswoman liz cheney. we'll show you his remarks next on "morning joe." "onmorning joe. fewer asthma s with nucala. a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala reduces eosinophils, a key cause of severe asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your doctor about nucala. find your nunormal with nucala.

we know how much you count on us... ...and that's why we're here 24/7... ask your doctor about nucala. ...and on the road maintaining a fast and reliable network. we're always working to ensure the internet meets your needs...

...by making access easier for all... ...with comcast lift zones and our internet essentials program. we're invested in making our apps easy... ...to give you personalized assistance around the clock. and we're committed to keeping our team and customers safe by working from home... ...and using precautions in store. see what we're up to at xfinity.com/commitment how can you accept what someone like kevin mccarthy says today as something you're going to legislate weeks from now? >> if a man looks me in the eye and says he's going to do it, he you take it as his word unless he breaks it. we agreed that we should try to get a bipartisan agreement. but the liz cheney/mccarthy thing is above my pay grade.

i have enough time figuring out my own party all the time, let alone republicans. >> president biden did attempt to figure out republicans yesterday who appeared unwilling to budge. after their meeting yesterday on his $2.3 trillion infrastructure plan. biden discussed the details with house speaker pelosi, senate majority leader schumer, and mccarthy. the president is expected to meet with senate republicans later today about his plan. joining us now, chief executive of the times up foundation, then tina chen, former chief of staff to michelle obama and did so much work on the white house council on women and girls and you worked with joe biden. so i'm curious the difference that joe biden is facing now than the atmosphere back then when he was vice president. he's working with a group of

people who are standing by an insurrection. how difficult do you think this is navigating his legislation, trying to get a bipartisan outcome but, of course, this reality hanging in the balance, the big lie? >> you know, it is complicated, but i've got to say, you know, if there's somebody who has the experience and the relationships to navigate those choppy waters, it's joe biden. he's got a long history, both with congress and these individual members. he has tremendous credible with the american people. and he has policies that poll after poll after poll is showing the overwhelming majority of american people, republicans and democrats support. they support the infrastructure investments. and they particularly support, as you know i care about, the care giving infrastructure investments. those have overwhelming support in red and blue districts. >> kasie hunt.

>> good morning. my question for you is how do democrats, as they start to face off in midterm, the midterm elections against republicans, explain the tax increases that the president is pushing for here? these are very expensive proposals. i absolutely take your point that in many cases they are popular, but in speaking to sources on the hill, there's some increasing nervousness among democrats who are going to have to sell this after the fact and may have to grapple with that. what do you say as they try to navigate that landscape? >> look, i think they've got to first focus on what are we investing in. that's what makes this really different than the tax cut that was passed during the trump administration. and remember, these tax increases don't even take call of that tax cut back. it is a modest proposal, but it demonstrates that with just modest increases in taxes on

corporations, on the richest americans, we can make important investments in critical, critical needs that average americans have in child care, in elder care, you know, in what they need to get back to work. and i think when you sell that message, people understand it. you know, polling is showing even when you give people the price tag for infrastructure, the support for these proposals go up. the universeltity of this experience has made it really clear, even to somebody who is like a ceo of a company, i'm talking to ceos right now, they experienced what it was like to be at home in a way they never did before. so they understand these needs. >> slew absolutely. as america's businesses, employers start having conversations about bringing everyone back to work. tonight on nbc news now, they're taking a closer look at the issues affecting working women, hit particularly hard during the

pandemic. the special is called "elevate success in the she-cession." and it's hosted by nbc news allison morris and you can watch it tonight on nbc news now at 8:30 eastern. i'm very honored to have a role in that. tina, you guys at times up have been working really hard on these issues with the judy that came out on building a better workplace. does biden's initiative and what he's looking at in terms of creating jobs address those nuances when it comes to retaining a diverse workforce and then growing it? >> oh, it absolutely does. mika, look, this was a historic announcement between the jobs plan and the families plan. as you know, i've been working on these issues for decades. to have a national paid leave program on the table coming from the white house for the first time ever is transformational. we are one of only two countries in the world that doesn't have a national paid leave program. and it does it in a smart way that gradually builds up to 12

weeks for everyone, provides support for small business owners so they can provide paid leave and get support to do that. and we know from the study that we did at times up, when you make those kinds of investments, it creates jobs. it creates and stimulates economic activity because you're so we're investing in that part of the workforce that really suffered dramatically from this economic downturn and pandemic. so this picks up elder care, support for health care workers, i have to give it to the biden administration, they hit all of the comprehensive needs we have. mika, this is a once-in-a-generational opportunity to make this transition. >> thank you very much, as always, for coming on. , as always, for coming on. vestment.

worth is a partner to help share the load. wealth is saving a little extra. worth is knowing it's never too late to start - or too early. ♪ ♪ wealth helps you retire. worth is knowing why. ♪ ♪ principal. for all it's worth. [sfx: psst psst] allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! all good so you're finally supporting his rock star dream... because you know you have a plan to pay it off. buy now, pay later, with plan it. one of the many things you can expect when you're with amex.

what's the #1 retinol brand used most by dermatologists? it's neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair® smooths the look of fine lines in 1-week, deep wrinkles in 4. so you can kiss wrinkles goodbye! neutrogena® over four million people on medicare... made a choice... to take charge of their health care. with an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. medicare supplement plans help pay the out-of-pocket expenses medicare doesn't... giving you greater peace of mind. you could also see any doctor, any specialist, anywhere in the u.s. who accepts medicare patients. call today for your free decision guide. ♪ [sfx: kids laughing]

[sfx: bikes passing] [sfx: fire truck siren] onstar, we see them. okay. mother and child in vehicle. mother is unable to exit the vehicle. injuries are unknown. thank you, onstar. ♪ my son, is he okay? your son's fine. thank you. there was something in the road... it's okay. you're safe now. now to the conclusion of our series of discussions we've been having this week on dialectical behavior therapy, dbt. boy, do we need it today. it's a mindfulness-focused therapy that teaches people the skills to manage strong emotions, volatile relationships and stressful situations. let's bring in the experts. dr. gillian galen is a child

psychologist at mclean hospital and instructor in psychology at harvard. and child and adolescent psychiatrist dr. blaise aguirre. he's an assistant professor of psychiatry at harvard medical school and medical director of the 3 east unit at mclean hospital. they're out with their new book "dbt for dummies," which has hit number one on amazon, as a number one in all books. not just in a category. it's pretty amazing and it's amazing how much this topic really struck a nerve with people who are struggling across the board. let's talk about some of the main components of dbt. we've been talking this week about emotion mind versus wise mind. and managing stressful relationships. i want to bring up this word validation, which we hear a lot, especially when it comes raising children.

gillian, if i can start with you and i want to hear from blaise as well. what is validation, how does it work, and why is it so important in any relationship? >> yes, so people tend to hear us better and feel more understood when we take a moment and become curious about what their emotional experience is, right? and when we do that, people are more likely to be able to talk about what their experience is and actually can help you with problem sol uving down the line. so validation is simply recognizing how another person's emotions make sense given who they are, right? whether they're a sensitive person or less sensitive person, saying things like slowing down, it makes sense that you feel really passionate about this given all that has happened. so what this does, it lets the other person know you're curious about it, and it matters. >> and blaise, what is the impact of

you're talking to, or the issue at hand is something you can't agree on? i'm just thinking about the conversations that are taking place right now in washington with republicans who, you know, will not -- will not recognize the insurrection for what it was. how do you validate that? when you're having a conversation with someone you vehemently agree with, and it's getting heated, does validation work? >> right. it absolutely does. everything always makes sense from our point of view. it's so clear when i've had the experiences that i've had that things are going to make sense. when somebody disagrees, it's surprising. like wait, don't you see the world this way. and reactivity perpetuates division. reactivity entrenches division. so what happens is you say

something i disagree with and i become reactive rather than curious. and it just divides us apart. so rather than simply reacting, to slow down, take a step back and say something makes sense to that person, and from that point of view, trying to understand what that point of view is so you can maybe get a little closer trying to understand why they did what they did. your behavior is going to be just as confusing to them from that point of view. it's a way of slowing down, becoming curious and less reactive and less polarized. >> so gillian, using this with children especially is important because a lot of children suffer when they're in an invalidating environment. what is some of the language that you can use with children? you give such great tips, or tip-off lines to help begin a validating conversation.

what is some of the language you use with younger children when you're trying to work with them and also validate how they feel? >> validation is really critical for young kids, because we're trying to help them understand their own emotions and let them know these emotions, whether they're big emotions or small emotions, make sense. simply just listening and being curious and asking kids, how do you feel and letting them know, it makes s they could be upset about something like that. helping them make sense of their emotions, even if they're not exactly the way we would feel. so you might say something, you might ask some questions, what was that like for you? how did that feel? what are you thinking about that? and letting them know actually thinking about and sharing their emotions is okay, and that they can have strong reactions and we can help them make sense of those reactions, by really leaning in and being curious.

>> and we want to stay -- >> and you want to slow down the conversation? >> it really slows it down and you want to stay away from people saying they shouldn't feel that way, they're making a big deal out of something. even if we think they should be moving on quicker, some kids are extremely sensitive and it takes them longer. so we need to help them along that way and say, it's okay, let's think about how you can calm down, or how you can feel better. >> so, blaise, real quick on this, if something makes you upset, back to adults here, if something makes you upset, how do you slow down before lashing out? we just have a few seconds left. >> i start with a breath. i just go -- and then i think, okay, should i react, or should i just walk away? often in that breath it's the time i need to decide. >> i love it. the new book is "dbt for

dummies." doctors gillian galen and blaise aguirre. you can find all of their books on amazon. the thank you very, very much. in our final seconds this morning, kasie hunt, i'm taking a deep breath and deciding if i should react. thank you for being with us. that does it for us. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hi, there, i'm stephanie ruhle. it's thursday, may 13th. let's get smarter. we start this morning with an nbc news exclusive. congresswoman liz cheney speaking to our own savannah guthrie on the "today" show about getting kicked out of gop leadership for publicly refuting former president trump's lies about the 2020 election and how far she'll go to stop trump from winning the white house again. >> i think he watched