on. turns out i was wrong. so when a hand specialist told me about nonsurgical treatments, it was a total game changer. like you, my hands have a lot more to do. learn more at factsonhand.com today. hi, everyone. 4:00 in new york. after a week in which republicans sought to rewrite and distort the gruesome abuse of law enforcement officials at the hands of trump supporters on january 6 during the attack on the u.s. capitol, a stark warning today from the department of homeland security about the extremism that fueled the inrecollection. dhs making clear that the country still faces a clear and present danger from domestic violent extremists. from "the washington post" reporting, did department of

homeland security issued a new threat bulletin friday reaffirming the risk posed by domestic extremists. the second time since biden took office that dhs issued a warning of attackers. the homeland is facing threats that have evolved fantly and become increasingly complex and volatile in 2021. these threats include those posed by domestic terrorists, individuals and groups engaged in grievance-based violence and those inspired or influenced by foreign terrorists and other foreign influence just the new bulletin comes as the sprawling federal investigation into the capitol attack continues. the fbi having charged more than 400 suspects. among them a marine corpse officer allegedly one of the first to break into the capitol building. he becomes the first active duty service member to be charged for the insurrection and new reporting from "the washington post" highlights how the federal probe is linked to the domestic

extremist threat facing the country. from that post piece, quote, some of the information that fbi agents have found so far in their investigation highlights more than just the intense violence and danger of that day. it points to the ongoing risk of politically motivated unrest. officials estimate about 800 people part of the human wave that stormed the capitol complex as congress was formalizing joe biden's victory. meaning hundreds of perpetrators still not identified. privately law enforcement officials acknowledge it could take years to identify and apprehend some individuals they hunt if they ever do and say there's always the possibility that some of those people knowing they're wanted decide to lash out violently again. in the midst of this terror threat that republicans and democrats reached a deal to create an independent 9/11-style commission to investigate the

insurrection. even now the gop's insis tans on whitewashing january 6 may still get in the way of an impartial investigation. house republican leader mccarthy telling nbc news, quote, that's very concerning to me in response to being told the commission is limited in scope to the inrecollection. he had pushed for the commission to investigate political violence in general and create a false equivalency of protests over the summer. that pushback from him comes on the heels of comments by republican lawmakers wednesday that utterly divorced from reality. one lawmaker saying the insurrection was quote not an insurrection and comparing the attack to a quote tourist visit. in response d.c. police officer meekal fanone who was brutally attacked on january 6 had this to say. >> i'm not an elected official.

i don't expect anybody to give two [ bleep ] about my opinions but i will say this. you know, those are lies. and peddling that [ bleep ] is an assault on every officer that fought to defend the capitol. it's disgraceful. >> that's where we begin today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. national security analyst frank faglusisi is here and author of "the fbi way." also axios national reporter jonathan swan is here and eli stokel. frank, i think we were together the day this first bulletin was issued. the ideology that undergirds this extremism threat is the same one that the republicans seem to hand a big boost to, a

big affirmation to by purging liz cheney from the ranks for fighting it. what did the extremists hear this week? >> they hear they're on the right track, the leaders that they idolize are perpetrating the lie and we have yet to break the connection that ral callized them to trump, to lawmakers who continue to say it was peaceful january 6. these were cop loving protesters. the election was stolen. we're still doing an audit in arizona. we'll get to the truth some day. until that connection breaks we will see people continue down the radicalization trail and something that just really pops out at me at what the terms of the bulletin released that you just read is that investigators as they look at the

investigation of the insurrection and individuals they find evidence that this radicalization will continue and the threat of violence will continue. what are the kind of things they find? they're finding evidence that trump is still our president. right? communications. belief systems. ideologies. trump is still the president. the election was stolen. these congress members are with us. that's how the radicalization stays in place. until that big lie is exposed, until the gop lawmakers and trump renounce this which is unlikely to happen, we are in for an indigenous group of insur jepts for the foreseeable future. >> i want you to invert that. the lady that replaced liz cheney pledged allegiance not to the country but to donald trump. we are going in the opposite direction.

what does that mission look like for law enforcement? >> your last couple of words in the question are critical. for law enforcement. here's what i've been saying to everyone that will listen. this anti-radicalization, counter domestic extremism project is a whole of society initiative. law enforcement cannot do this alone. i hear people saying let's give more bodies to the fbi, more money to dhs. fantastic. but educators at the middle school level have to get involved in teaching civ eks and how to deal with media fabrications. clergy to get real about what their theology means in real life in terms of applications against violence and extremism and lies. social media. right? the big tech platforms. we have to address and regulate that. this is not just a law

enforcement problem if we ever get the hands around it. >> jonathan swan, there was a lot that built up. you know better than i do. between kevin mccarthy and liz cheney. this is something she said a little bit about him and a subpoena and the 9/11 commission or the 1/6 commission. >> should kevin mccarthy be willing to testify before that commission? after all he is a few person that we know of that was talking to donald trump while the attack was taking place. >> he absolutely should and i wouldn't be surprised if he were subpoenaed. he very clearly and said publicly he has information about the president's state of mind that day. the elements of that commission are exactly as they should be. i'm very glad they rejected the suggestions to dilute the commission. it is important to be focused on january 6 and the events leading

up to it. >> you welcome a subpoena for mccarthy to testify? >> i would anticipate and hope that he doesn't require a subpoena but i wouldn't be surprised if he were subpoenaed. >> she's going further than welcoming a subpoena saying before the commission that is yet to be formed gets to having a subpoena issued he should offer himself up. just talk about liz cheney sort of making this security judgment, making a judgment that the extremism -- she was ahead of the warning today but making clear that mccarthy on the line and shouldn't have to be subpoenaed to share what he knows about what donald trump knew and how the insurrection came to be. >> it's sort of extraordinary watching that clip and contemplating that a week ago, a few days ago that she served alongside him in leadership.

this is somebody, the leader, that she had contempt for. believes has submerged his principles beneath donald trump. this is what she believes and not going to stop talking about it. the members of the conference want her to stop talking about it and she simply won't. what's really important for your viewers to understand is the word bipartisan will be thrown around with this deal that was done today. in a technical sense i guess it is because a republican was involved but it is not bipartisan in a meaningful sense. it was smart of pelosi to target somebody who's in no way representative of the rank and file and who in fact voted to impeach donald trump. he did a deal with the democrats and it was done without leadership, without mccarthy at the table. i would not be surprised if this bill to form the january 6 commission i think it will pass

the house. no question. i wouldn't be surprised if a majority of republicans vote against it. >> and then what? today the department of homeland security created under my old boss george w. bush while the tower smoldered issued a warning about the idesology of the insurrection that two house republican members this week said -- things i won't repeat again. pull the thread for me. do they not care? do they not see it? do they not believe terror warnings? and what for the republicans, jonathan swan? >> what i hear time and again when i talk to them is a mixture of things. either it is they basically agree with liz cheney, her position, but too afraid to say it publicly. this is the sort of plague upon the gop at the moment. or, they get angry because they

feel like, well, what about the riots in the summer? what about the -- they'll use as you said these other examples of political violence as false equivalences and use that as a divergent. mostly members want to stop talking about it and putt aside what's been probably the most shameful episode in republican party in the modern history. people need to remember, for all the talk of republicans in disarray they're probably going to win back the house next year if history's any guide and they're in a very good position because the house and the senate are weighted so far towards them in the electoral college. so they sort of see this political nirvana and trying to submerge and suppress an open and public inquiry into this shameful, grotesque episode. >> eli, jonathan is smarter

about all things politics than me but there are some cases where when the country's in crisis that history doesn't happen. one of them is two years after the terrorist attack of 9/11 where an incumbent president's party holds on to seats or gains them but lots of known unknowns as we look at the future. i wonder, eli, if you can talk about what this means for the country. to have one of the two parties purging its member against the lie that undergirds a domestic terror threat and to have as jonathan just explained through his reporting a commission that really isn't a commission at all in the sense of both parties being interested in investigating the events of 1/6. >> that's a lot to untangle but you are right. this is a country that is getting deeper into a political sectarianism. it's beyond negative

partisanship and that's what enables the cognitive disso nance with republicans telling you what happened on 1/6 didn't happen and not so bad and normal. they speak to supporters, the base, telling them what they want to be true and to believe. when you have a country that is that divided and can't agree on basic fundamental truths and facts, even things that happened in the light of day, you have a very difficult time given the government structure getting anything done and you are seeing that, the uphill battle for this administration to get the republican party to negotiate on anything and almost taken for granted that republicans are not going to be able to come to the table to negotiate with this administration and democrats on policy because of where the base is taking them. they are still, republican

lawmakers in washington still fear donald trump. they feared for their lives on 1/6 but snapped back to fearing for the job the next day and seeing that now and there's not a sense of national purpose. to your point inside the white house president biden and the advisers do believe that their only chance to sort of beat history and to somehow maintain democratic majorities next fall is to keep president biden popular, to keep talking over the republican party and to keep reaching sort of mainstream american voters who might be -- might include self identified republicans not part of that trump base and to talk common sense solutions, pragmatism to them and if the republican party is a sideshow and they're consumed by the big lie the white house feels like if they kptd get things done they make an argument that the grown-ups are in charge and keep them in charge but it is difficult as a

country when everyone is in the informational silos and can't really reach people, can't penetrate the people who are getting the news from tucker carlson at 8:00 and logging on to the websites and buying into the conspiracy theories of 1/6. and that makes having a cohesive democracy very difficult. >> it's a good point. i know you just sort of tucked in there. nothing less than the prospects of our democracy surviving are on the line. frank, i want to come back to deradicalization. there's a mad proud boy out there and he's mad because donald trump doesn't have his back. he did what donald trump told him to do. he said stand back and stand by. here's what he texted today. this is proud boy leader ethan. after realizing he's going to jail. it was revealed in a filing from prosecutors. i followed this guy for four eyes and given everything and lost it all.

yes, he woke us up. but he led us to believe some great justice was upon us. and it never happened. now i have got some good friends and myself facing jail time because we followed this guy's lead and never questioned it. i have hundreds of republicans to introduce this guy to. does he help with deradicalization? >> this tweet that's been revealed from a proud boy needs to become billboards and ads everywhere including on fox news programming. because when you look at deradicalization that's successful there's a variety of come poe innocents but one is a light bulb moment when they realize they've been played and the more that happens and people articulate that the less likely people are to stick with this radical journey that they're on. when you talk to, for example,

skin heads, white supremacists that come out of that movement, there's a light bulb moment when they realize usually through a personal relationship or observation, this is not working for me, i'm duped an enthen to belong to the other side. those people have something to offer and being nicer to me than my own group. that works. we have got to figure out how to put that on steroids. >> speaking of being duped, there were more conservative people that ran against liz cheney's replacement and lost. what does that say to the conservatives in congress? >> has nothing to do with policy. the idea that this was a debate about policy, you know, what should our regulatory agenda be? how high should the taxes be? of course it wasn't. anyone to suggest that should

just talk to donald trump. he makes no bones about it. he supports people who are loyal to him and in fact is happy to say that out loud. doesn't bother him whatsoever. roy is far more conservative than stefanik. not close. this is nothing to do with policy. >> eli, on that note, wrap the week where we saw gossart and clyde trying to rewrite the hearing. liz cheney ousted and today a fresh warning, the last from january to the end of april. this is a brand new one here on may 14th that the gravest threat is extremism manifesting itself into violence. >> yeah. it is really scary and this administration enacted a task force to study domestic violent extremism in the first week of the administration. haven't ahead the finings but seeing that the government is monitoring this very closely and

it is unnerving to a lot of americans but so much of the information that the country is getting is filtered through political channels. the people that are watching this show probably take that threat seriously and probably other people looking at the government and don't trust the government because they're wrapped up in the conspiracy theories. to the point about the two different informational silos and the two different countries. to watch that video of officer fanone beaten and to see people in the crowd that showed up at the capitol with a blue lives matter flag and to see that flag of respect for law enforcement waving as police officers are being beaten nearly to death, just tells you there are people that lost the plot and i think to frank's point bringing people back out of those nether worlds of the internet and getting out of the political sectarianism and making them things clearly is difficult to do but that's

really important. i think given -- for the country going forward and obviously i think the fact that they haven't done that that this continues to be a problem and why you see the warnings and the government so concerned about this metastasizing further and seeing more events like january 1. >> perfectly put. an unbelievable state of affairs and state of the country. no better people to talk to about it. thank you so much for starting us off this hour. this afternoon matt gaetz's wing man spilling the beans as part of the guilty plea. we'll have the reporter that first broke the news if they find the associate credible greene's harassment in the halls of the u.s. capitol and the intersection with the dark obsession with congresswoman ocasio-cortez. is the gop going to regret enabling the menace within the ranks? how lower rates of

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joel greenberg a former tax collector and a good friend of congressman gaetz will plead guilty to 6 of 33 charges against him including sex trafficking of a minor and will

cooperate with the government signaling that he could be a very important witness against matt gaetz. if prosecutors find he had sex with the same 17-year-old girl greenberg is accused of trafficking. "the new york times" reports that the documents did not name matt gaetz by name but quote mr. greenberg admitted that they paid a 17-year-old gill for sex and provided her with drugs. he admitted that he quote introduced the minor to other adult men that engaged in commercial sex acts with her. according to the documents and that he was sometimes present. prosecutors revealed in the documents that they have evidence they say corroborates the admissions including a series of communications and transactions mr. greenberg had with the girl and a list of dates of the encounters why the inclusion of that material appeared design to bolster the credibility of mr. greenberg as

a witness whose truthfulness would be challenged. on top of that politico reports that federal investigators are talking with gaetz's former girlfriend and discussing an immunity arrangement. gaetz denied all allegations. let's bring into the conversation washington correspondent for "the washington post" michael schmidt and both msnbc contributors. mike, you previously reported that mr. greenberg is talking to the feds since december. has he spent that time establishing his own credibility? do they right now view him as credible. >> i don't think the government would enter into such a plea agreement with a defendant like this if they didn't think he was credible. the interesting thing about the document that came out today, so this was a greenberg admitting

to the crime. it is an 86-page document which is very long for a plea agreement because there's so many crimes that he committed and so much to admit to. but what stood out to me about the document is not only ofly the allegations and more than allegations and government putting forward facts of sleeping with the minor but the same time the government put in there a fair amount of detailed information that backs up greenberg's claims. there are different dates they lay out that greenberg was with this 17-year-old girl, different transactions. they are relying on documentation to bolster greenberg because if they indict matt gaetz or anyone else it is easy to attack greenberg's credibility. he is facing a minimum of 12 years in prison. for him to have any type of

reduction on that, to have a shot at that, he has to help the government with other prosecutions and the government has leverage on him and if her to be used as a trial a deaf attorney would say, mr. greenberg, why are you saying these things? he is a potentially a difficult witness to have although he has a wealth of knowledge. >> mike, the allegation of sex trafficking with a child is really pretty lewd as it's detailed. they both had allegedly sex with the same child. matt gaetz continues to say i never paid for sex. what is the gaetz position on what mr. greenberg has testified to? >> gaetz just minutes ago blasted out a statement about this and the first line of it basically says that matt gaetz

is not referenced in the documents and doesn't appear to be referenced in these documents. this is true and then say that matt gaetz has not had sex ever with a minor or paid for sex or such. this is the position that he has maintained throughout this. now that may be true. the first part of it is true that gaetz is not referenced in the documents but he is under investigation. greenberg has talked to the feds about what he knows about gaetz and he said in the documents today he witnessed other men sleeping with the 17-year-old girl and there is an enormous amount of stuff in the documents today that looks to back up greenberg's story. his venmo charges. his amex charges from the job using the credit card to pay for sex with women. there is a fair amount of evidence in this 80-plus page

document that any defense attorney if you were working with matt gaetz to probably be pretty concerned about. >> jake sherman, i don't have the right question to come out of my mouth to ask you about venmo for underage sex but what is the sort of feeling up there act where matt gaetz stands in terms of criminal exposure? he is sitting atop the crazy coalition. he is on tour with marjorie taylor greene when he is not harassing congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez. >> nobody likes matt gaetz. very few members have any interest in being friends with him or being aligned with him or being allied with him. he is unpopular. he would say this is a d.c. swamp game and all that stuff. fine. there could be based on the great reporting of mike could be a decision in front of mccarthy. steve scalise and stefanik and

should gaetz be indicted? if he is down the road they will have to push him out and he is -- republicans are trying to put a string of just down right bizarre and damaging and pick your adjective behavior them now and now this story rearing the head once again and matt gaetz sits on the judiciary committee that oversees the justice department. how long will that be politically tenable for him? i defer to mike on quickly how anything else moves given greenberg's plea deal. i don't know how long it would be politically tenable to keep him in that position or frankly in congress overall. >> you want to address that, the timing or pace of your understanding of this investigation? >> yeah. we really don't know.

it would seem to make sense that if you were going to move against gaetz you want to lock up as many cooperators as possible and establish the facts. you see that happening today with these documents and what's being laid out there. we must remember that greenberg is the only person whether's been publicly charged in this case and the conduct of many others is being examined. would the government potentially take the route of indicting others that are in this circle in the hopes of building up towards gaetz for other witnesses to do that? do they want to go up the ladder in a white collar organized crime style prosecution? that would take a fair amount of time to sort of do this with other defendants and indict them to try to get them to flip to move forward but that's where the government can have power

with cooperators. greenberg is the only known person to be indicted and to have cooperated but there are others, folks in republican circles in florida politics looked at in this. >> just on the sort of note that we don't know what we don't know, jake, let's ask you about this reporting in lit coe. two friends of gaetz's ex-girlfriend not the 17-year-old say that she is in talks to be a witness for the prosecution and wants an immunity deal. another source familiar with the investigation told politico that the alleged sex trafficking victim was quote 100% talking to prosecutors about gaetz but her level of cooperation or the information to give is not clear. everyone spoke anonymously. what is the sense of sort of how many people knew or were in or aware of gaetz's conduct? is there a sense that people around him are closing in? >> if you read the bilines in

that story and being a proud former politico they are two florida-based reporters so they know the circles very well so i imagine the reporting is extraordinary tight. another point here. the best thing for any member of congress to do under information is to stay a member of congress as long as they can and potentially if they -- if it comes to that use that chip in bargaining for some sort of either deal or leniency or whatever. i don't anticipate no matter how close the circle closes on gaetz should it close at all that gaetz will stick around because he's a prideful person and wouldn't step down in face of what he thinks is a corrupt government but also just because prosecutors and mike can speak

more to this like when members of congress get a resignation for a deal theoretically. we have seen that happen in the past before and i imagine that gaetz won't leave anywhere and go anywhere unless forced to or unless he does so on his own volition in an agreement. >> an alleged sex trafficker in the gop ranks is not a lead story these days anyway. thank you for joining us and sharing your reporting with us. jake is sticking around. looking like a pattern. greene continuing to harass colleagues on the hill and learning of an incident there before she was elected and there with an accused capitol hill rioters. imagine that. where is the gop leadership on this? you got it -- silent.

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this week on capitol hill, conspiracy peddling extremists within the republican party, in the form yet again of marjorie taylor greene whose pattern of burlying and bizarre conduct is clearer. reporting in "the washington post" confirmed by nbc news about the freshman congresswoman confronting democratic congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez on wednesday outside the house chamber turned

out to be the latest in a targeted obsession of greene's who had her sights set on being destructive before taking office and since deleted video from 2019 reported by cnn shows greene harassing ocasio-cortez's office through a mailbox slot and cnn reports that a close ally was actually with her at the time of that stop. today ocasio-cortez responding to the intimidation and quote fixation on her. >> i mean, this is a woman that's deeply unwell and clearly needs some help. her kind of fixation has lasted for several years now. you know, it's -- at this point i think the depth of that unwellness has raised concerns for other members, as well. >> joining our conversation

jackie alamini and witnessed that wednesday incident between greene and congresswoman ocasio-cortez and jake is with us. jackie, you go first. >> yeah. despite marjorie taylor greene's claims otherwise she was shouting down and chasing alexandria ocasio-cortez. it is behavior i think any other person would ask for a restraining order from. i had said last night that i had never seen someone behave like this in a workplace. let alone a member of congress. it was deeply unprofessional. and felt unhinged and i was actually in such shock that i didn't have the presence of mind to take out my phone and record the interaction but i want to add that this is behavior that we have seen regularly at trump rallies and this is marjorie taylor greene bringing that into the halls of congress.

we saw trump officials grab protesters by the collars, scream at them ux threaten them. we have seen it in four years since 2015 at trump rallies and a continuation of this and now gop leadership enable taylor greene because it at this point is a pattern of behavior. >> jackie, if i went to the capitol and was a tourist and acted like that what would the capitol police do to me? >> you should be removed. in the workplace you would be fired and i think any supervisor would be accused of malpractice to allow an employee to act like that. afterwards we went up to taylor greene and asked her what was wrong. up close she was shaking and trembling so worked up over her

chastising and accosting of ocasio-cortez who really just calmly walked away. >> jake, is there security situation that is being unaddressed up there by capitol police? is congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez safe? >> so it's a complicated question. it is not complicated but a difficult question. everything jackie said is smart and exactly right. i would one thing. let's just talk about what marjorie taylor greene is saying to aoc which is she wants a debate over the green new deal. just pause on that for a second. it is not up for a vote. it is not in the legislative mix of things. we don't see like debates between two members of congress not on the floor about a bill that's being considered so what she is asking for is so bizarre and unhinged and detached from reality that if you take a step

back and it's difficult, too, caught in this mix here, but she is asking for something that doesn't even make any sense. i understand that there's an exchange of ideas on capitol hill. been up here a long time but what she is asking for doesn't make sense. an imagined debate in which marjorie taylor greene taking the side of her side and aoc debating for socialism. it doesn't make sense. number two, yeah, there are people, niccole, answering your security question. i think corey bush who earlier this year had an office moved because aoc, we reported that they were aoc screaming at bush and pelosi had her -- >> taylor greene was screaming at -- >> yeah. >> sorry, sorry, sorry.

i appreciate the correction. one more thing. aoc has private security going around the country. this is somebody because she was demonized by donald trump so much, i would imagine has a significant number of threats. nancy pelosi and the capitol police could give her security from the capitol. they haven't done so yet. i have asked if there will be a restraining order against greene. the beshaver so bizarre. i have to imagine it is not the end of this story. >> and what jackie witnessed, what you have been covering isn't the beginning of it. let me show the viewers and watch together the video of greene's first visit to congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez's office. let's watch. >> you want to talk crazy ocacio. you whisper. >> this is confession.

>> this is confession right there. >> alexandria? i pay your salary. for the taxes that you collect from me through the irs. because i'm a tax paying citizen of the united states. i'm a woman. i am a female business owner. and i'm proud to be an american woman. and i do not support your socialist policies and murderous boergs policies. if you want to be a big girl get rid of the diaper and be table to talk to the american citizens instead of using a flap. >> we now pay her salary, too. the congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez talked about unwellness. are there questions about marjorie taylor greene's mental health? >> i mean, there's questions about her, concerns about her. i have spoken to a number of

republicans today suggesting -- saying what should we do about this? they can't throw her out of congress. they can. that's not done very often in congress. she's clearly impervious or doesn't listen or not interested in advice. not somebody who's going to take the cues of leadership. thrown off the committees and all she can do is go to the capitol and vote. no committee assignments. >> i just hope we don't ends here on a day when this story turns darker. i'm grateful for both of your reporting and knowledge of everyone involved. thank you so much. stay safe. after the break, with mask restrictions ending in states across the country how protect vaccine ineligible kids around anti-vaxxers who also refuse to wear a mask.

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oh, we can help with that. okay, imagine this... your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee... yeah i should've just led with that... with at&t business... you can pick the best plan for each employee and only pay for the features they need. states across the country reacting to the new guidance yesterday permitting americans to shed their masks in virtually all situations. here is the hitch, though. if and only if they're fully vaccinated. "the new york times" reporting, quote, at least seven states led by democrats began to lift mask mandates. but "the times" adds most of the state officials who responded to the shift are democrats. half of the country's governors, most of them republicans, had already lifted mask mandates in some form.

which brings us back to the caveat we mentioned at the beginning. the easing of mask restrictions is only safe if and only if you're fully vaccinated. and in 31 states, fewer than 50% are even partially vaccinated, according to the latest data from the cdc. especially true in southeastern states where fewer than four in ten have received even one dose of the vaccine. there was remarkable progress in president biden's vaccine rollout, but it's giving way to questions and concerns including these laid out in an op-ed by leana wen in today's "with respect to -- ""washington post."" you can no longer count on the cdc rules to keep you safe. what if you don't have childcare? your kids didn't choose to remain unvaccinated. the shots aren't available for them. surely it's not fair to put them

at risk. let's bring into the conversation dr. ashish jha. first, for the country's dark days and dips, this was a good day yesterday. how do you feel about it? >> i feel great about it, nicolle, thank you for having me back. look, it was a momentous day because basically what we said if you're fully vaccinated, life pretty much returns back to normal. not 100% but very close. there are a lot of challenges here and the pandemic isn't over and we still have a lot of infections in america so we don't get to kind of wrap things up and go home but we should not underestimate how good a day yesterday was. >> i have this sense, and maybe it's just colored by my time at the white house, that what president biden is doing is treating us like grown-ups, sort of trusting us to have some role in caring for our households and our communities and our kids' school district and not take off

the mask unless we're vaccinated. do you have his faith? >> i do. and i thought the cdc made the right call yesterday. i think people are confused about what the cdc said. cdc did not say lift all indoor mask mandates now. they said if you're fully vaccinated, it is safe. they were following the science, that's where the data is right now. they get beaten up for being too cautious and now they're getting beaten up for not being cautious enough. i don't think we should be lifting all indoor mask mandates yet. we should let people who aren't vaccinated yet get fully vaccinated over the next few weeks, watch infections go down, and then lift indoor mask mandates. but the cdc is, as you say, letting people act like adults and make their own decisions. >> they seem to think this is important as an incentive to vaccinations. the anti-vaxxers will do what they want to do, but is this an incentive to those who might get

a vaccine, or does it let everyone slough it off because everyone around me is safe? >> no, it's an incentive. if you're unvaccinated, you go into indoor spaces, and you choose not to wear a mask, which is not a good choice, you'll be at risk. so i hope that that really does incentivize people. a lot of people are on the fence, they're not vaccine resistant or hesitant, they just haven't gotten around to it, they're not 100% sure they wanted to do this. this helps people jump off that fence and get vaccinated. >> keep following it and keep talking to you about it. thanks very much, dr. ashish jha. don't go anywhere, we're just getting started.

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emergency planning for kids. we can't predict when an emergency will happen. so that's why it's important to make a plan with your parents. here are a few tips to stay safe. know how to get in touch with your family. write down phone numbers for your parents, siblings and neighbors. pick a place to meet your family if you are not together and can't go home. remind your parents to pack an emergency supply kit. making a plan might feel like homework, but it will help you and your family stay safe during an emergency.

we're working with the state legislators to make sure they have all the information they need to draft the bills. in some cases we actually draft them for them or we have a sentinel on our behalf give them the model legislation so it has that grassroots, you know, from the bottom up type of vibe. and we are going to take the fierce fire that is in every single one of our bellies to right the wrongs of november, right the wrongs of mistreatment of these men and move it into other states. >> hi, again, everyone, it's 5:00 in new york. that was jessica anderson, executive director for heritage action for america, the sister organization of conservative think tank the heritage

foundation. that footage was shared with "mother jones" and it shows heritage action actually bragging to its donors on camera, in a presentation last month, about how they are creating the voter suppression laws we're now seeing enacted by republican legislatures all across the country. as of right now, 11 states have passed restrictive voting laws and dozens more have measures under consideration. "mother jones" goes on to explain heritage action's concerted effort this way. quote, it's no coincidence that so many gop-controlled states are rushing to pass similar pieces of legislation in such a short period of time. republican legislators claim they're tightening up election procedures to address unfounded concerns about fraud in the 2020 election. but what's really behind this effort is a group of conservative washington insiders who have been pushing these same kinds of voting restrictions for decades with the explicit aim of

helping republicans win elections. the difference now is that trump's baseless claims about 2020 have given them the ammunition to get the bills passed. and the conservative movement led by heritage is making an unprecedented investment to get them over the finish line. heritage action is a dark money group which means it doesn't disclose its donors. we do know the koch brothers are among them. anderson responded to "mother jones" with a statement. she said, quote, we're proud of our work at the national level and in states across this country to promote common sense reforms that make it easier to vote and harder to cheat. we've been transparent about our plans and public with our policy recommendations and we won't be intimidated bit left's smear campaign and cancel culture. during her presentation, though, anderson spoke about guarding against legal challenges and mentioned someone who will be familiar to all of you. here she is describing heritage's operation in georgia. >> and we provided testimony, expert witnesses, analysis, and

actually had to draft these bills so they were legally tight, so mark elias, if you know that name from the progressive left, he's like their legal pitbull, he goes after all of this with lawsuits, so that mark elias can't find any holes in the legislation. >> mark elias sued georgia over its law in march and has mounted lawsuits against other states as well. elias told "mother jones," quote, the georgia law violates both the invite voting rights a the u.s. constitution. heritage action claiming this is legally tight is like hearing from the "titanic" shipbuilders how much confidence they had in the ship's voyage. this law will be struck down in court. in a brand-new piece from "democracy docket" elias lays out the danger of the gop's anti-democratic efforts. quote, the transformation of the big lie from a political ideology to a basis for state action is a critical one for

society, especially a democracy, because once it infects our laws and official policies, it creates real harm to the public. a law that calls an arsonist a firefighter doesn't just result in confusion. it threatens public safety. the truth is that we are almost certainly closer to the beginning than the end of the damage that the big lie will wreak. we begin this hour with the author that have piece, aforementioned legal pitbull in the democratic party in the fight against suppression of voting rights. mark elias, we're so happy to talk to you, we know how busy you are, thank you for spending some time with me today. >> thanks for having me back, i'm happy to be here. >> i said on this show once, from my time in the republican party, i was sure someone had written these laws and was pumping them out. is it sort of like a smoking gun to see that video and see how operationalized it is, or is this something you've known all along? >> so we've suspected this all

along, but this is the smoking gun. we have seen the evidence of the gun, we saw the shootings, but now we know that there is in fact out of washington, d.c. a well-funded, conservative effort to spread the big lie from a cultural and political phenomenon into the laws of state after state after state. >> marc, what do you make of liz cheney breaking with her leadership ranks, they actually broke with her, over the big lie? joy reid made the point that she believes so much in democracy, she championed efforts to export it overseas. is she someone you would like to see involved in the fight to preserve our democracy here in the specific case of voting rights? >> absolutely. absolutely. look, liz cheney deserves a lot of credit. whatever else people may disagree with her on, at a time had our nation was in peril, she stood up and she told the truth.

and she has risked consequences to her career for telling the truth. and, you know, i tweeted about this and talked about this back on january 4 and january 5. she issued one of the most thorough statements about the litigation in the post-election period and how the lie that donald trump was spreading and that so many of her colleagues were going to adopt on january 6, she laid that out in really, really clear detail. so she's been consistent on this and she deserves credit for that and i hope she takes the next step, though, and now stands up also to the voter suppression efforts that we're seeing that are the result of that big lie. >> the insurrection is obviously a horror and a stain on our country, and the voter suppression laws stand to impact millions and millions and millions of americans. i wonder if you feel like they're just racing through.

i mean, there was the boycott after the law passed in georgia, we had beto o'rourke on, i know they're fighting the law in texas. but it feels like with this cookie cutter policy process that now we know emanating from washington, these laws are just racing through state legislatures. is that a fair analysis? >> it is. look, i wrote in the piece that you quoted, you can be a free trade or a fair trade republican and still have a home in the republican party. you can be in favor or against more government regulation and still be in the republican party. you can even, i think, be a pro-tax-increase republican today. the only thing you can't be is in favor of voting rights and against the big lie. so when you have a party that is united by that one policy, that the election was stolen and we can therefore restrict voting rights, it is no surprise we're seeing in state after state

these bad laws being passed, and no surprise that there is a group like the heritage action fund that is behind it. >> they deny they're doing this, but we found this on their website. on heritage's website they have a section called "best practices for strengthening electoral systems, what states should do." i want to go through some of this. they're trying to launder policies to make them sound reasonable when the whole premise is bs. so there is no voter fraud, so none of these laws are fixing anything because there's nothing to fix. but let's take them through. what does verifying the address of voter registration lists, why do they want to do that? >> let's be clear, federal law already requires the verification and accuracy of voter registration lists. that was a bipartisan bill passed 30 years ago now. so what they are talking about is not verifying the accuracy of voter lists. they're talking about purging voter lists, kicking off the

voter list people who are eligible to vote. we saw in iowa, after they passed the law, people have been erroneously moved from active to inactive. so they're just talking about voter purges. >> the iowa law is interesting because they're taking off, quote, infrequent voters, those are people who vote every four years. all of the laws seem to specifically target a purge of people who come out and vote for democratic choices, more or less, other than republican. are you surprised that there isn't more urgency from the white house and congressional leaders? >> look, i think that the white house and democrats in congress are doing everything they can. the president spoke about it in his joint address to congress. senator schumer personally attended the rules committee markup on the for the people act. speaker pelosi moved it through the house as hr 1, it's s 1 in

the senate. the reality is the senate has the rules that the senate has. and the question now is going to be whether or not it can advance in the face of what will be unanimous republican opposition. and i hope it will. >> let me just push you a little bit more because i know you know this, actually you write this, let me put it in your words first. while democrats divide their attention between health care, the economy, and racial justice, republicans are singularly focused on making voting even more difficult and spreading disinformation about our elections. every day the proponents of the big lie are speaking louder with more voices and influence on this topic than we are. that is true, and i will just add, the republicans don't have a policy agenda that they're pushing. they don't put out talking points about an alternative covid relief vision or an alternative, you know, comprehensive infrastructure vision. it's just a smaller one, it takes five minutes, you just lop off everything that isn't a road or a bridge. so they don't have anything else. this is ball game for them. they know how to win elections and they only win elections if

they do these things, if they require voter i.d., limit absentee ballots, prevent vote trafficking, allow observers. it's everything that's on the heritage list, it's everything that's racing through legislatures. so in a perfect world, if you didn't understand that democrats are dealing with a lot of policies, what would you have them do? >> look, i meant what i wrote, which is that the top priority for democrats and progressives needs to be protecting voting rights. and that is our first -- that should be our first, second, and third agenda item. because without the protection of the right to vote, nothing else will matter. and the republicans, as you point out, this is their only thing, the only thing they talk about, the only thing that unites them is disenfranchising voters because they don't have any other way to win elections unless they disenfranchise voters. so it's urgently important that

we talk out about this, speak in the town square, to our neighbors about it, and to push back in every way we can, whether it's in the courts or in congress or it's in state legislatures. i do think that the democrats in congress are doing that. i think the question is whether or not they can get that bill across the finish line. >> would you like to see them reform the filibuster in the senate to ensure its passage, or aid it? >> i would like to see its passage. if that requires reforming the filibuster for this bill, yes. i don't know what the right reformation is in the broader sense. but the filibuster should not be able to be used to prevent voting rights laws from passing. >> did you think on your path, and i know ben ginsburg from working in republican elections, and he came out and said the only person flirting with criminal voter fraud is donald trump by urging his supporters to commit it when he called on them publicly to vote twice. he's called voter fraud this

republican myth, you know, folklore in search of solutions, laws that heritage is pushing out, we know from the video, in search of a problem. did you foresee a day when the lie would become bigger and sort of this unstoppable force to enact this republican wish list? >> no. no. you know, look, i worked for john kerry in the 2004 election. and, you know, so i had profound differences with george bush and with ben ginsburg who i know very, very well. but the fact is that george bush didn't celebrate winning the presidency by losing the popular vote in 2000. enact in 2004 he went about telling his campaign, as i understand it, having been on the other side, to make sure that they ran up vote totals in some blue states that they weren't going to win because of the importance of showing the american people that the person elected had a mandate to govern. and i did not envision the day

in which the republican party would abandon the idea of consent of the governed, abandon the idea of popular will, and mandates, in a favor of simply trying to shrink the electorate smaller and smaller. >> marc, can you tell us what people -- a lot of people who watch this program care a whole lot about what you're doing and about this issue. what can people do? >> so look, the most important thing people can do, which is in some ways the hardest, is what you're doing, and i thank you for it, which is using the voice they have. now, for you it's a very big voice, you have msnbc and you have millions of listeners. but everyone has a forum that they can speak out in and make this the most important issue. so for you, it's putting guests on tv to talk about this. for others, it may be posting on social media. it may be confronting their neighbors, their friends, their customers, their clients, they're crazy uncle, and not turning a blind eye to the big

lie, not humoring people and say i don't want to talk about it, but being willing to stand up and say it's not true. what liz cheney did in standing up in that conference room, in a 15-minute meeting, when she was booed, by voice vote, by voice vote, telling her colleagues that what they were saying was not true, is what every american needs to do. not all of us are going to do it in the halls of congress, not all of us are going to do it on tv, not everyone is going to do it in the courtroom, but everyone can do it in some way. that's what we need people to do. >> you see it as existential to the opportunity to preserve our democracy. based on who we vote for, that may not be an opportunity. but you always have an open invitation. thank you for starting the hour with us. >> i look forward to coming back with the open invitation. >> thank you so much. joining our conversations,

"washington post" pulitzer prize winning columnist eugene robinson. eugene, it strikes me that this is when i want to say, you have to fight like republicans. marc elias is nice to say he understands the democrats have governing to do, and he's right, but the truth is there's only one governing party right now, the other one does stuff that isn't governing. i wonder if you agree with him about democratic lawmakers and the white house taking this as seriously as it should be taken. >> i don't think they're taking it seriously enough. and, you know, i disagree with marc on -- well, not really disagree, but he said these were conservative activists who are behind this stuff. in fact there's nothing

conservative about trying to deny the franchise to legitimate voters. there's nothing conservative about trying to purge voter rolls of legitimate voters who have a right to vote. that's not conservative, that's radical. that's, you know, that's anti-democratic. and yes, it should be called out, and everyone should speak out in whatever forum they have. but at the end of the day, i don't think that's going to do you know anything. i don't think that's going to stop these state legislatures from passing these bills into law one bit. and i think it's going to have to be either defeated by federal legislation, the for the people act, and democrats are just going to have to pass that, however they need to pass it, including suspending, nuking, whatever, the filibuster, or

it's going to -- and/or it's going to be struck by the courts. and what marc is doing in the courts. and one of those things needs to happen. but that's the only way progress is going to be made. i am much more pessimistic than he about what would happen if everybody who is against this and sees what's happening speaks out, because i don't think that's going to dent the big lie. >> in his defense, he is the legal architect of the fight, it's not on him to come out with a political -- >> absolutely. >> olivia troye, republicans are playing a fast game because they want to make sure they prevail in the elections, they're playing a right-now game. democrats don't have time for a six-month-long commission to study the filibuster, it's now or never. republicans call me sometimes

and say, oh, nicolle, what could you live with in terms of voting security? i said, it's not about what i could live with, there's no voter fraud, so it's all bull. it's not about what you can sell to me. none of it is real, it is all fake. olivia, i hate to say this, but they've again successfully moved the goalposts so in these states, democrats in texas, democrats in iowa are having to fight over what they can live with. none of this is reasonable. there is no voter fraud. >> right, because none of it is true. and so you should ask them the question of when are you going to start telling people the truth. and the answer is they're not, because they're going to continue to fund raise it, they're going to continue to make it harder. that's their strategy, that's really the only thing they have going for them right now. and that is a shameful day when the only thing you have going for you to get you elected is to lie and you have to steal the election and that's the way you get people in congress. and i think it's going to be incumbent -- look, it's going to take all of us, like marc said,

it's going to take -- i encourage conservative voices out there, true conservatives, not trump republican conservatives, because i think that redefines the word, certainly, those voices need to be out there as well. we need to be communicating to people, saying like these are the facts, all of this is a charade, and a low moment for our democracy. it's un-american. >> i'm waiting for a parade of republicans who champion democrats -- champion diplomats overseas, to come out and protect our democracy. in arizona the vote recount effort is clearing out, not because they know they're fools but because there are other things scheduled in the arena. hmm, what could go wrong? and the legal trouble that

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in arizona they call it an audit. of course we know that's not what it is. it is an unprecedented slow-moving and supremely partisan, like beyond partisan, exercise. the backwards search for proof to support a conspiracy theory they've already accepted as

fact. so far they reportedly hand-counted about 500,000 of the 2.1 million ballots cast in maricopa county. but this weekend they have to pause, they have to pack everything up and temporarily vacate the stadium they're using because the venue is hosting high school graduations next week. but after those graduations are over, the so-called auditors will come back with their boxes looking for bamboo, continuing their never-ending search for watermarks and bamboo fibers, a bizarre situation summed up perfectly last night by my colleague rachel maddow. >> what could go wrong? that's a totally normal and professional thing to do, right? already the twitter account for the audit run by an uncertified, totally inexperienced conspiracy-led bunch of trump partisans says they've uncovered discrepancies as they unboxed

and re-boxed the ballots that they will soon unbox again. ooh, you found discrepancies. what an unexpected turn of events. >> joining us is "arizona republic" reporter watching the audit from inside yesterday. eugene and olivia are still here. tell us what's happening. >> they're boxing up, while some kids celebrate graduating high school and then they'll get back to counting after taking a week off. it was really slow going last night when i left. there was one table of counters still spinning ballots around and a lot of folks moving equipment out of the room. >> ryan, what do they think they're looking for? >> well, the senate president today did an interview where she said they're not necessarily looking for fraud so much as they are trying to dispel all the rumors, and that they should be applauded for doing such a great audit to quash the

conspiracy theories about bamboo. she said we're not necessarily looking for bamboo, we're trying to get rid of the conspiracy theories that there is bamboo and you should all thank us because the media has gotten this all wrong so far. >> and at the end of it she calls the conspiracy theorists are all wrong, i'll give her credit, i'll clap for her. but that's not why she did this, they did this because the three audits approved by democrats and republicans in the state weren't good enough. >> yeah, and there were people that that wasn't good enough for and she, like many other republicans in the state, couldn't tell those people that they were wrong, so they got all the ballots and brought 'em down to the veterans memorial coliseum and have been counting them and looking at them with lights and looking at them for folds where there shouldn't be folds or no folds where there should be fold. they told us yesterday maybe half a million ballots have been

counted so far. >> ryan, who is doing the counting? >> well, i can tell you who's not doing the counting them, that's the former state representative who was on one of those ballots. he's been relieved of his duties down at the coliseum. but we don't really know who the rest of these folks are. we know they did reach out to law enforcement groups and people who were complaining of fraud in the election to ask them to come down and volunteer or work. we're not really sure who is paid and who's not in this effort, to help with the audit. so the identities of most of these folks are not known to us. >> so we don't know who's counting them but we think this is going to be the group that dispels distrust of the three bipartisan professional audits, is that the logic? >> that is, and i'll challenge that statement a little bit too, because if their effort is to dispel the conspiracy theories then why are they fueling the

conspiracy theories through this twitter account run by someone at the audit who they won't tell us who is running it? so on one hand they're saying we're only doing this to appease everybody and let them know there isn't bamboo in the ballots and that there aren't watermarks on the ballots but at the same time this twitter account run by somebody down there, it keeps fueling the fire and saying that there are problems before they're done with the audit, they're releasing these half-baked results, telling us there are problems already, when they're not done. >> olivia troye, let me bring you into this conversation with ryan and eugene. today the department of homeland security on which you served issued a domestic terror alert warning of domestic violence from grievance ideology. what does the conspiracy-motivated endeavor in arizona to recount

thrice-counted ballots do in that respect? >> we're going to have once again, the so-called patriots, in quotes, who think they're doing their constitutional duty to inspire violence across the country. as long as this narrative plays out and this remains in the headlines, that's truly what the arizona audit is really about. my concern is, nicolle, if you think this is bad right now, we are six months out from the 2020 election, an election that we know, president biden is in office, he's pushing policy, but my worry is we are going to see more of this in 2022, and likely 2024. and we are going to see this fuel division. that is why we're seeing these groups gain traction, we're seeing domestic terrorism be on the rise, because all of this fuels all of these ideologies, everything that's in social media, all of these communications, spectacles like this, the circus that's happening in arizona, contribute

directly to all of this. >> and eugene, that is the sort of slow motion way that a democracy dissolves. the elections are never settled, they never end. that was liz cheney's point, that she described it as a crusade on donald trump's part, but the crusade got a big boost this week, liz cheney was purged for calling it such and not going along with the big lie. and as ryan has detailed, there are conspiracy theorists connected with this faux audit and running this twitter account be. the anti-democratic forces seem to be winning this week, eugene. >> they certainly do. and, you know, once you lose that faith in the basic act of democracy, in the elections, in the integrity of elections, once that's lost, it's hard to get it back. you know, i lived in countries in south america when those countries were returning to

democracy after long years of dictatorship, and it was very difficult to sort of get people to trust the process, the accuracy and integrity of the vote, and really to trust the system. this erodes that trust. meanwhile, there is a federal law governing how ballots in federal elections are supposed to be handled and kept for i think it's like three years. the justice department has already sent a letter to arizona saying, this doesn't really look like it's conforming to what the law says and you need to watch out for that. so i personally would be kind of happy if this ended with a big fbi raid. >> it's just an unbelievable -- >> -- for violating federal law. >> it's an unbelievable possibility, it speaks to how down the rabbit hole we are.

eugene robinson, olivia troye, ryan randazzo, thank you for spending time with us. coming up, how much legal jeopardy could florida congressman matt gaetz be facing? [sfx: bikes passing] [sfx: fire truck siren] onstar, we see them. okay. mother and child in vehicle. mother is unable to exit the vehicle. injuries are unknown. thank you, onstar. ♪ my son, is he okay? your son's fine. thank you. there was something in the road... it's okay. you're safe now. so with your home & auto bundle, you'll save money and get round-the-clock protection. -sounds great. -sure does. shouldn't something, you know, wacky be happening right now? we thought people could use a break.

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for the past few weeks matt gaetz has tried to distract the public from the sex trafficking

investigation swirling around him by going on the road to denigrate liz cheney and push his america first agenda with marjorie taylor greene. not sure it works, but now that his friend and one-time wing man joel greenberg is pleading guilty to six federal charges including sex trafficking of a child and has agreed to cooperate with investigators, the legal pressure is building on gaetz, who has not been charged with a crime and denies having ever paid for sex or having sex with a minor. joining us now, former deputy assistant attorney general and former u.s. attorney harry litman is here. so how much trouble, from what you've seen in "the new york times" and other places, do you think that matt gaetz is in? >> he's in a world of trouble, because it's quite likely the charge they're going after, based on the plea agreement and everything we knew already, is the same one that greenberg has been forced to plead to. one is sex trafficking with a minor, and importantly, it does not require that you know that

the victim is under 18. it's a very tough statute, it says if you had a reasonable opportunity to observe. now, gaetz is saying i never had sex with anyone under 18. but when you think about that, how would he be able to say that with confidence? did he ask for i.d.? it doesn't seem very likely. and greenberg will say that he sort of passed this girl around to many people including gaetz and presumably they have corroborating information and evidence. i say "presumably" because greenberg himself is going to be such a noncredible witness that they must have other material, because to have him cooperate, they have to have concluded that he's going to be able to make the case and he's going to be believed overall by a jury that they're going to be able to convict. so i would say big, big trouble. and the final headline, it's a ten-year mandatory minimum, no getting around it. so this is the weekend his life

changes, nicolle, and he's focused on being a putative criminal defendant. >> that's just a remarkable twist of fate if it comes to pass. "the new york times" has previously reported that joel greenberg has been to go federal investigators since last december. let me read something from the reporting. i want to ask you, if we presume that's what they've been doing for the last five months before they agreed to let him enter into a plea deal, were they trying to corroborate some of this. let me read some of that. mr. greenberg was first indicted in june for spreading false rumors that a rival had had sex with a student. he initially wanted to fight the charges but around the end of last year as he was confronted with the possibility that he could face decades in prison if

convicted, he began cooperating with investigators. so that's last december. we're at mid-may. do investigators take that time with someone like greenberg and go out asking for the receipts, if you will? >> yes. but it's less to show he's credible. this guy as a disaster on the stand. and more to find corroborating information. they did ask for the receipts, give me every date you were with her, let's see your credit card, et cetera. it's more to build corroborating information, talk to the victim, talk to other girls or other women, remember, he's a whole wingman, very unfortunate phrase for matt gaetz who used it of greenberg. what they have to have concluded, nicolle, first time, by the way, they have to have concluded that he is less culpable and gaetz, because they can't cooperate down, as it were, and it doesn't count that gaetz is a big scalp and a congress person. so they've decided that gaetz is more culpable.

but second, they can convince a jury. and with the disastrous witness like greenberg, that's not a matter of shoring him up. it's a matter of corroborating evidence so they say at the end to the jury, of course he's a lying sleaze bag but look at these 15 reasons why you can confirm what he's saying. >> so what investigators, federal investigators and prosecutors know is that he has no credibility as a witness, they use him as a narrator and they go out and find separate evidence. is it your judgment that that's likely what they've spent these months doing when it comes to matt gaetz? >> yeah, and of course it's been many months, and gaetz, remember, there's a whole cluster of different conduct that he may be subject to, but this is the most serious. and i think the number one piece of evidence they probably have, the testimony of the victim, who said yes, i had sex with him, and other ways to prove that that happened, at the particular hotel, et cetera. the thing that's going to be tricky for them, by the way,

even if they show that she's under 17, is that it's a commercial sex act, meaning these things that gaetz was giving her, the hotel and lob ster dinner, the so-called sugar daddy part, the quid pro quo in exchange for the test. she'll probably testify to that, greenberg will as well, and that will be the nub of the matter. but when the victim comes up and says, yes, that happened, and can describe it in particulars, you know, it doesn't matter that the wingman is not so credible. >> unbelievable times. we need a pg-13 rating for these hours these days. harry litman, thank you for spending time with us, nice to see you. when we return, it's a bit of a coronavirus mystery. how did eight members of the new york yankees test positive for covid after being fully vaccinated? our medical expert explains what

it means and why it may not be as alarming as it sounds. alarms

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♪ live out loud ♪ ♪ you can do it on your own ♪ ♪ stand up now ♪ ♪ be proud, yeah ♪ ♪ stand up now ♪ ♪ live out loud, oh ♪♪ this week as we begin to enter a whole new world with the cdc saying that fully vaccinated people can safely go about their lives without masks and distancing, there are several so-called breakthrough positive covid cases that are making headlines. eight fully vaccinated new york yankees players and coaches and now bill maher have testified positive more than two weeks

after getting their second doses. the thing is, none of them are hospitalized that we know of and only yankees' third base coach showed any symptoms of covid at all. it's also evidence that vaccines work to prevent severe cases and hospitalizations. a study this week shows nearly 100% of patients of all ages hospitalized with covid during the first 3 1/2 months of this year were not fully vaccinated. joining us now, someone we've turned to for advice through the last year, an infectious disease physician and medical director of the special pathogens unit at boston medical center. for all the days we've talked about the tragedies and the downturns, what was it like for you yesterday to hear that vaccinated people can now safely take their masks off? >> i think it's a sign both of the hard work that we've put in in all of our communities and

the sacrifices we've made but also the miracle of these vaccines. we've seen them play out in other countries, nicolle, in terms of the fact that the numbers of cases are going down. and massachusetts on tuesday reported zero deaths from covid. as you know, we're ahead of the curve in terms of the number of vaccinations. we're really looking at, in the future, starting to imagine what a fully-vaccinated community looks like. and so it's a good day for that. >> i checked my zip code, and it's a really reassuring number, obviously we live in a global community, so we're going to stay on this and remain concerned. and i wonder what you can tell us about breakthrough positive hits on covid tests for yankees players who got sick with covid. >> that's right, nicolle, we will see breakthrough infections. we know that particularly with johnson & johnson, which is the vaccine that the yankees players

got, you can get -- it's a bit lower efficacy when it comes to all infections. it still protects 100% or a very high percent against hospitalizations and deaths, 100% against deaths, but there are breakthrough infections. but this is a story of success. we don't know the details of whether these players and the coaches were infected from another person maybe who had been unvaccinated, we don't know what the source was, but in that scenario, when all these people were exposed to the virus, none of them, except for one person, developed mild symptoms. and this is a case of what it will look like when more and more of us are vaccinated, which means the virus could be circulating, it may in some of us cause an infection that does, if you test people, the virus shows up on a test, but it's unclear at that point if the vaccinated person who has that virus is capable of transmitting it to other people, and clearly the signs are there that if you're vaccinated, as you

presented from the cleveland clinic study, chances are you will not get hospitalized and you will not have severe disease. >> dr. walensky was on the "today" show this morning making a similar point to yours with sort of a real world twist about being in a crowded restaurant which we restaurant, which we may experience. let me play that. we'll talk about it on the other side. >> and what i can tell you is certainly as someone is hacking on a restaurant, i would like them to put on a mask and more importantly, i would encourage them to get vaccinated if they weren't. if you are near that person and you are vaccinated, your risk is really quite low. >> this is the other side. we have covered the vaccine reluctance so much. but there is some anxieties. and my colleague rachel maddow asked her last night, are you sure? she said, we're sure. i'll just ask you. are we sure that we're ready for this stuff? >> yeah. i think the cdc's guideline is the correct one for vaccinated people. i think when you are vaccinated,

you don't get sick and you are less of a threat to your community. i think the one caveat i would add is that in this setting when masks go away the risk becomes people who are unvaccinated versus those that don't unmask because you're a threat to those are unvaccinated or those that can't develop the antibodies. what i would like to see is potentially state's benchmark dropping indoorman dates as they're doing this to a number of people vaccinated in their communities and community transmission rates. if you have 5 to 10 cases per 100,000, even if someone who cheats who is not vaccinated, taking these mandates away, the chances you may come across somebody else who is unvaccinated will go down lower if you have high percentage of vaccinates and low community transmission. >> thank you for spending some

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voice or the song in her heart. spent singing in her church choir as a soloist no less, as well as raising a family and helping countless young people achieve their dreams. after she moved her family to california in the early 60s, she had a masters degree in sociology while at the same time working full-time as an office manager in a local university. her daughter terry told us she dedicated 26 years of her life to that calling helping students. many of them, the first in their family to go to college reach new heights. she was smart. she was quick whited. she had a talent for making people feel seen. she passed after 83 amazing, inspiring song-filled years. of course today her family is in our thoughts. we will be right back. k. managing type 2 diabetes?

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we're grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi, nicole. thank you very much. we have breaking news about matt gaetz. a major breakthrough today in this sex crimes probe that involves joel greenberg and his ally gaetz. mr. greenberg is not only pleading guilty, which first emerged in a federal filing this week, but tonight we're learning he will cooperate with federal investigators. that's bad news for anyone greenberg has incriminating evidence on. tonight we know what we did not know yesterday or last week or in march when this volcanic story first broke. greenberg has some kind of credible information to officer -- to offer, i shoul