u.s. population vaccinated. because the little kids are not yet eligible, that means just about all the adults and adolescents, if we're going to protect everyone. >> dr. peter hotez, thank you for making the time tonight. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris, thank you, my friend, much appreciated. thank you at home for joining us at this hour. whenever something comes up in washington that has to do with the capitol police, the police force that guards the capitol grounds and that complex, you'll often hear about it first from a congressman from ohio named tim ryan. the reason is that congressman ryan runs a subcommittee in congress that specifically has responsibility for overseeing and funding the capitol police. so congressman tim ryan is sort of the closest thing that congress has to a point person on that issue, on that police

force. and today, as that point person, with that expertise and experience, congressman tim ryan basically lost his mind a little bit. >> i want to thank the gentleman from new york and the other republicans who are supporting this and thank them for their bipartisanship. to the other 90% of our friends on the other side of the aisle, holy cow. incoherence. no idea what you're talking about. benghazi. you guys chased the former secretary of state all over the country, spent millions of dollars. we have people scaling the capitol, hitting the capitol police with lead pipes across the head, and we can't get bipartisanship. what else has to happen in this country? cops. this is a slap in the face to every rank and file cop in the united states. if we're going to take on china, if we're going to rebuild the country, if we're going to reverse climate change, we need two political parties in this country that are both living in

reality. and you ain't one of them. i yield back the balance of my time. >> say what you really mean, congressman tim ryan. we need two political parties in this country that are both living in reality and you ain't one of them. those sharp words today coming from him as the house actually did vote to approve a bipartisan commission to investigate what happened at the capitol. it passed with a majority vote in the house since democrats are in the majority in the house, so if they alone will vote for something, it will pass. on the other side of the aisle, only 35 republicans saw fit to vote for it. the others voted against it. this after the congressional republican leadership told them to vote no.

it's interesting that there are 35 republicans who voted yes anyway despite what their leaders told them to do. but most house republicans voted no. and this legislation to create the january 6th commission will go to the senate and republican leaders there will also tell all republican senators to vote against it. republicans in fact will filibuster the thing which means it will require a 60-vote majority to pass the senate which means ten republican senators would have to cross over and vote with the democrats in order to make it happen. that will not happen. that will not happen on this. that will not happen on anything. that could not happen on a vote to declare wednesday the day that precedes thursday. that could not happen on a vote that declares apple pie a nice thing to eat, there is no circumstance where ten republicans will cross over and vote with democrats, not when their leadership in congress and former president donald trump is putting out statements telling republicans not to vote with democrats on this. now most if not all senate

republicans voting against it, that means there won't be a commission, a bipartisan commission to investigate how the trump mob came to attack the u.s. capitol on january 6 to try to stop the certification of the presidential election results. now, if republicans won't even vote for that, if they won't even vote to have a bipartisan, half democrat, half republican commission investigate this attack on their own workplace, even mike pence's brother, congressman pence, voted no to create this commission. the mob that attacked the capitol was literally hunting for his brother because they wanted to murder him. they ran through the halls, smashing stuff, screaming hang mike pence, hang mike pence, while vice president pence hid under a stairwell with the secret service until they could spirit him out of there ahead of

a mob before a braying mob yelling for his blood. if the republican party won't even support a bipartisan commission to look into that, what are the odds that republicans are going to come round in significant numbers to, i don't know, support president biden's $4 trillion comprehensive infrastructure bill? what are the odds of that? do you think the republicans are going to negotiate in good faith and try to contribute constructively to that legislation and then agree that most of them are, if not perfectly satisfied with it, at least satisfied enough to give it a try and do something for the country. really? what are the odds? they won't even vote for the january 6 commission. what are the odds of them voting for the infrastructure bill? it's impossible to divide by zero so don't spend too much time trying to figure out those impossible odds. the bottom line is, it isn't going to happen. that led to my favorite twin set of headlines in the news. in politico.com this afternoon were these two headlines.

first one, "clock ticking on biden as second republican infrastructure meeting yields little progress." followed by this one. "liberals to biden: ditch the infrastructure talks with republicans." yes. if the clock is in fact ticking, and it is, and now weeks have been wasted while the democrats and the biden administration talk with republicans about infrastructure with no meaningful progress made toward anything republicans will ever vote for, let alone in large enough numbers to actually make a difference toward the final vote, then why are you doing this? continuing to spend time meeting with them and talking with them is just throwing away the time that you have to get stuff done. and making it less likely you'll be able to do anything at all. ezra levin telling politico that the best scenario is the biden administration gets a few votes

for things the democrats could have passed on their own. the worst case scenario is republicans successfully waste enough time that they succeed in scuttling the whole effort. go big or get nothing. get nothing by continuing to waste time talking with republicans about their ideas to make the legislation weaker and worse while they stretch these things out as long as possible to try to run out the clock when in the end they're not going to vote for it anyway. certainly not in significant enough numbers to make a difference. honestly, they're not even going to vote for the commission to report on what happened january 6th, right? a mob was running through their workplace, smashing things and looking to kill folks. they're not even interested in looking at that. they're not going to vote for infrastructure. and now, liberals, both the progressive caucus in the house, individual republican senators,

and progressive groups on the outside are all speak ongoing that, basically with one voice, saying, stop wasting time. and we will see if this adjusts the focus at all for the biden white house and for democratic leadership. the progressives at least are now loudly and uniformly pushing to stop wasting time with the republicans and instead get some stuff done with democratic votes only. now, among democrats, there is lots of interesting other policy fights right now. there's an interesting question right now as to whether it might be possible for progressives in congress to scuttle a long-planned, $700 million arms sale to israel's military, given what israel's military is doing right now to the palestinians with the weapons that they do have. the united states government remains in this untenable place when it comes to the israeli air strikes and attacks that have now killed hundreds of palestinian people including lots of kids. the white house says that, in

his fourth call in almost as many days with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, president biden told netanyahu that he expects israel to start de-escalating now, today, on the way to a cease-fire. israel shows no signs of doing that. and indeed is saying publicly and insistently that they won't do any such thing. to the extent that they're influenced at all by what the u.s. president or the u.s. government purports to want, it's hard to believe that israel sees any real umph behind president biden's tough talk to netanyahu when the white house is pressuring democrats in congress to not scuttle that arms sale to israel, which looks like it will be going forward even in the middle of this crisis about what israel is doing with its military force already. the u.s. is also providing massive cover for israel at the united nations. it's now been four attempts by the u.n. security council to put out some kind of statement calling for the end to the use of force, an end to the two

weeks of crisis and death in israel and the palestinian territories. the reason the security council hasn't been able to really sustain it like that, even after what i think is four tries, even after hundreds of air strikes and hundreds dead, is because of one simple thing. security council statements have to be unanimous and the united states government alone won't allow it to happen. the u.s. government standing alone at the security council blocking that body from calling for an end to the fighting. basically because of the perception that a statement like that might be seen as calling on israel to do something they don't want to do. so the world, rightfully, judges us by what we do, not just what we say. that's a good principle in general. but that means that even if the white house keeps telling us that president biden is speaking sternly with israel about this massive use of force against the palestinians, our actions speak louder than any of those words might indicate. the u.s. position remains

basically half-hearted and therefore basically pointless. and the fighting continues. the republicans are essentially absent in any important way from that discussion or that debate as well. the thing to watch here really is the progressives versus the old school democrats as the white house tries to figure out whether it is going to try to pursue a more coherent policy, one direction or the other. saying one thing, saying your words mean one thing while you're acting a totally different way isn't going to move anybody in either direction. so we're watching all those things develop tonight. those are all developing stories. we're watching of course for developments in the bombshell story that broke right at the end of our show last night, the news that new york's attorney general, that office's investigation into the company run by former president trump, that investigation is no longer just a civil investigation, it's now a criminal one. there's been a lot of speculation in the 24 hours since that news broke late last night, a lot of speculation about what that means for former president trump's personal legal exposure, what it means about

how quickly this case is moving. this would now count as effectively the third known active criminal investigation into former president trump. but as with all active criminal investigations, you never really know what's happening until prosecutors get far enough that they bring charges, get a warrant for an arrest and turn up in court to lay out what they've got to make their case. in this instance the closest we can get to understanding what this new probe of former president trump is, what it's based on and how serious it might be, the closest we can get to that i think is to get as clear as we can about the evidence that is available to the attorney in this case. what has the attorney general's office been looking at? what has her office had to work with in terms of evidence about the former president and his company that led them to switch this from just a civil case to now also a criminal case? the investigative reporter who obtained much of that material,

who knows more than anyone else outside the prosecutors' office what exactly they've got to base their case on, that pulitzer prize winning reporter joins us exclusively here tonight. i'm very, very much looking forward to that discussion. so we're watching all of that. but we're also watching a breaking news story tonight that i have to tell you, is disturbing. i will warn you now that what i'm about to describe, some of it will be hard to hear. i will also warn you i'm going to play some tape in a couple of minutes that many people will find hard to watch. i certainly did. but when this story broke today, even though there are stories of this type that seem like they break all the time, this one in particular just seemed to stop the news in its tracks. certainly for everybody who works on this show, it stopped us all in our tracks. you can't really move on once you've seen something like this. what this is about is something

that happened in louisiana, just over two years ago. it happened in the early hours of may 10, 2019. and in west monroe, louisiana, there is a hospital there called glenwood regional medical center. and that night, may 10, 2019, the emergency room at that hospital received an ambulance, and the ambulance held a 49-year-old man who was handcuffed to a gurney. he was already deceased when the ambulance pulled into glenwood regional medical center and they wheeled him into the er. the ambulance was accompanied by louisiana state police. and the police that night told the emergency room doctor who was attending this ambulance that the man who was dead in the ambulance had died on impact when he crashed his car into a tree. that was the explanation for why this man was dead when he arrived at the er. and the doctor examined the body, examined the man who had been running the ambulance, noted in his doctor's notes that the man was covered in blood, and covered in bruises.

but he also noted the man had two taser prongs hanging out of his back. wait a minute. this was supposedly a car crash casualty. they're saying he crashed into a tree, died on impact. did the tree tase him? after he hit it? the er doctor noted all this in his notes and actually wrote in his notes that night, he wrote, quote, does not add up. because, right, it did not add up. and yet that really was the official explanation that louisiana state police tried to go with for how a 49-year-old barber in west monroe, louisiana, a man named ronald greene, that's the story they tried to tell about how he died that night. louisiana state police told mr. greene's family that he died when he crashed his car during a chase. they said troopers said they had tried to pull him over for an unspecified traffic violation shortly after midnight, 30 miles south of the arkansas state line outside monroe. they said he died on impact when he crashed into a tree.

it took the er doctor pointing out the freaking taser prongs still hanging out of his back, it took mr. greene's family filing a wrongful death suit, for police to admit, okay, yes, something else might have happened. they can't come up for an explanation for how the tree fired the taser prongs into him. police released a one-page new report with a new explanation that said, quote, greene was taken into custody after resisting arrest and a struggle with troopers. and then inexplicably, he became, quote, unresponsive. he became unresponsive. and died on his way to the hospital. the report did not describe any use of force by the troopers in this instance. and that was literally all the louisiana state police said about the death of ronald green. that's all they have ever said. to this day, more than two years later, the louisiana state police have still given no further explanation of ronald greene's death in their custody. and crucially, for all of this time, they have refused to release the trooper's body camera footage from that night.

it took 474 days after mr. greene died for the state police to even open an internal investigation into what happened. and that was only when their hand was forced. summer of protests over the police murder of george floyd in minneapolis had put the spotlight back on cases like mr. greene's. perhaps more presciently in terms of seeing what impact it might have, mr. greene's family also took the radical step of releasing graphic photos to the public in an effort to demonstrate to the public that the police explanation of what killed ronald greene was a ridiculous explanation. they released photos of the condition of the body when they received it. they showed deep bruises, deep cuts to ronald greene's face and scalp. they also showed his vehicle. they released a photo of his vehicle. it's the car he had been driving the night that he died. it showed the car was only

mildly damaged. the airbags hadn't deployed. this was not a car that have been involved in a major crash that mortally wounded its driver. the justice department announced it had opened a civil rights investigation into ronald greene's death. can you imagine how bad it has to look for trump's justice department to open an investigation? the louisiana state police still wouldn't release the body cam footage, would not afford any further explanation of what happened. last september they decided to fire one of the officers involved in mr. greene's death although they would not say why they were firing him. tragically, that officer died in a single vehicle car crash just hours after he was told that he was fired. days later, the associated press obtained audio of that same officer describing how he beat and choked ronald greene the night of his death, on a recording from his body cam microphone, that officer, who

was in the one-car crash, was heard telling somebody very matter-of-factly that he quote, beat the ever living "f" out of ronald green. he said, quote, choked him and everything else. he was spitting blood everywhere and all of a sudden he just went limp. after that horrifying reporting, ronald greene's family was final, after a year and a half, allowed to see the body cam footage the night that he died. mr. greene's mother and sister wailed like they were at a funeral when they finally saw the footage. it was damning footage that showed the troopers beating ronald greene, repeatedly jolting him with tasers, dragging him face down across the pavement. the attorney, lee merritt, who watched the footage, told the associated press the video was very difficult to watch, one of those videos like george floyd or even ahmaud aubrey where it

is so graphic. today what happened is that today we learned to our collective horror that the attorney for the greene family was right when he described it that way, because today the associated press obtained and published edited excerpts from the louisiana state trooper's body cam footage from the night ronald greene died. and i'll tell you, this stopped the news today for a reason. i'm going to show you some of what the ap published today. as i said, it is not a pleasure to watch. that is a grave understatement. it is disturbing to watch. and the nightmarish nature of the video of this incident is compound by how long this was kept secret, how blatantly state troopers lied about what really happened. there is something even worse about the fact that we are only seeing this footage now only two years after the fact and not because the police finally decided to release it but because a dogged reporter from the associated press was finally able to get it, and that's the only reason it was able to get

out. it's over two years since this has happened and they had this all the time. here is the first bit of video we're going to play tonight. this is where police approach ronald greene's car, they have been chasing him, the chase has come to an end. this footage is excerpted and edited by the associated press, they don't have the raw tape. the full footage is 46 minutes long. they say there are long stretches where mr. greene is not on camera. the body cam was cut off halfway through. the ap itself is cautioning it can be difficult to piece together what's happening at all times. but in some of it, it's clear. like in this clip where police first approached ronald greene's car, it certainly appears he is not resisting and in fact is pleading with the troopers. >> let me see your -- let me see your [ muted ] hands. come here, mother [ muted ].

>> okay, okay. oh, jesus. [ screaming ] >> hit him hard! >> i'm scared, i'm scared. brother, i'm scared. i'm your brother, i'm scared. >> it says at the end there, officer, i'm scared, i'm your brother, i'm scared. we also have another portion of the body cam video after the troopers get mr. greene out of the car and you'll see mr. greene on the ground here, appearing pretty motionless while the officer tasers him again. mr. greene is clearly bloodied at this point. part of the reason we confirm that is because the officers are commenting about the amount of his blood they've got on them and the fact that they are wiping it off themselves.

>> get on the ground! >> taser, taser, taser! [ screaming ] >> put your hands behind your back. >> whoa, [ muted ] damn it, get up here. >> blood all over. hope this guy ain't got aids. [ screaming ] >> the ap tonight has posted one other portion of the video. this portion doesn't have sound. we believe what happened there is the trooper turned off the microphone on his body cam. but you can see here ronald greene handcuffed on the ground. the ap reports that later, after a several-minute stretch in which ronald greene is not seen on camera, he appears again, limp, unresponsive, bleeding from his head, bleeding from his face. he's then loaded onto an ambulance gurney.

his arm is cuffed to the bed rail. but here what you will see is an officer putting leg shackles on him. i'm not going to show you this part but what you can see in part of this video is the officer dragging mr. greene by his shackles, face down. his legs are behind his back, he's shackled and he's face down and limp and they're dragging him face down across the ground. now, the louisiana state police tonight would not comment on the content of these videos except to say that the release of the video was not authorized. yeah, tell us about it. they said, the release of these videos, quote, undermines the investigative process. yes, how is that investigative process going? the officer who dragged ronald green on his face by his leg shackles, he was suspended from duty for 50 hours for that offense. 50 hours.

another of the troopers is now on unpaid leave. but not for ronald greene's death. he and several other troopers were arrested a few months ago for beating up other black men in their custody. they were also discovered to be bragging to each other over text messages about the violence they have inflicted on black men they have arrested. but there's also the federal investigation into ronald greene's death. there's also his family's lawsuit against the state police. does publication of this gut wrenching video today get ronald greene's family any closer to justice? joining us now is lee merritt, an attorney for ronald greene's family. mr. merritt, thank you for being with us tonight. i know this has been a really intense day. >> thank you so much for having me. >> i know that this has been a long haul for the greene family already. it has been more than two years since mr. greene was killed. what sort of justice are they seeking?

>> we want criminal accountability for every officer involved. rachel, i really appreciate that you've done a very thorough job of pointing out the failures on every level of accountability. supervisors, district attorneys, prosecutors who are supposed to look at this evidence. over the past two years, they've completely failed to take any serious actions to hold these officers accountable and deter this kind of behavior. this behavior has gone ignored and they've been allowed to continue to terrorize other members of the louisiana community. >> the state police responded to the release of this video tonight by saying it was unauthorized, which, yeah, to state the obvious, part of what is difficult about this case is that they have had access to this for so long and consistently refused to release it. but let me ask for you to

respond to their assertion that the release of this tape is going to undermine ongoing investigative processes, it will compromise any fair and impartial outcome of those investigations. is there any risk of that? >> no. they've had this -- an independent opportunity to perform their investigation for two years, without any real oversight from the public. as the system is designed, transparency is an essential part of the system where an officer who taxpayers pay is held accountable to the constituency they're supposed to serve. by releasing this video it gives other members of the community an opportunity to identify the officers, to identify the actions, to report other instances of abuse which we have found that there are ample, from this particular trooper, the troopers in louisiana who have been notorious. the release of this video doesn't compromise the investigation. it's the first time the

investigation is probably going to see an honest attempt at doing justice and it moves us a step closer for this family. >> let me ask you about one aspect of this that is deeply and disturbingly reminiscent of the video footage of george floyd's death, which of course lit up the world beyond just lighting up the country in outrage over the way that he was killed. i didn't show it at length. we, again, are relying on what the associated press has released. but what they describe and what these videotapes show is apparently an incident that lasts more than nine minutes where mr. greene is face down, shackled, handcuffed, unattended, and basically unresponsive. that's part of what's going on for the time that the officers are spending time wiping his blood off of themselves and

talking to each other about how they hope he doesn't have any infectious diseases given the amount of his blood that they're bathed in. what should the officers have been doing during that nine-minute stretch of time? if he was dying during that nine-minute stretch of time, what were the officers trained to be doing at that time? >> hypothetically every officer within the louisiana state police department knows, and we've all learned on a national level from the chauvin trial, that you can't leave a suspect who has been injured the way mr. greene has been injured, in a prone position. they have him hog tied. as you mentioned, they have his legs and arms shackled behind his back. it's impossible to breathe in that position, given the repeated tasering that she's endured, the brutal beating about his head and body that he's endured, the mace that was already in place. they left him in a position

where they have been trained to know that his ability to breathe is limited. and what they should have been doing, of course, is rendering emergency aid, assuming that he suffered injuries in the car accident, which of course we don't believe he did, we believe his injuries came from the brutal assault. they should have been giving him emergency aid for the vicious assault that they had just unleashed on him. >> lee merritt is the attorney for the family of ronald greene at this incredibly dramatic turn in the case more than two years after he was killed by louisiana state troopers. mr. merritt, come back and keep us apprised as this case develops. i know that this is a live issue, both in terms of the family's lawsuit and in terms of the federal investigation. incredibly disturbing footage that we've all seen tonight. keep us apprised of how this

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just before 10:00 p.m. eastern last night, we got this startling news from the attorney general of new york state. that attorney general for the last two years has been leading an investigation into the conduct of former president donald trump's company, the trump organization. it's been a civil investigation, meaning that the outcome the trump organization most had to worry about there was that the attorney general might at the end of that investigation choose to bring a lawsuit against trump's company. if the ag won that lawsuit and the company lost, the company and its executives including potentially former president trump himself, worst case scenario, they could be subject to some civil penalties, you know, like fines and stuff. well, that horizon of possibilities changed

considerably for them late last night, when the attorney general's office confirmed in a statement that that investigation of the trump organization is no longer just a civil matter. some aspect of that civil investigation continues in the attorney general's office, but there's at least some part of it that they have now converted into a criminal investigation. and of course criminal penalties are a different thing than civil penalties. the way the attorney general's office put it succinctly is the trump organization investigation is, quote, no longer purely civil in nature. quote, we are now actively investigate the trump organization in a criminal capacity along with the manhattan district attorney's office. that last bit is interesting. this broke last night, cnn was first to break the news. we confirmed it ourselves at the new york attorney general's office later. it's gotten full court treatment by all the major news outlets. "the new york times" clarifying that the ag's office is not conducting its own independent

criminal investigation. they've handed the criminal part of it off to new york state prosecutors at the manhattan district attorney's office. that office already has an active criminal investigation of trump under way. but now they've been referred something else, they've been given some other piece of it that came out of the civil investigation into trump's business. two prosecutors from the attorney general's office are reportedly moving over to that d.a.'s office instead to help them with that criminal prosecution of whatever it is the ag found. "the washington post" for their part added that the trump organization was given a heads up about this "criminal" term in a written notice late last month, which makes it all the more interesting that the former president himself put out a long, rather unhinged statement reacting with outrage to this news about the criminal investigation. apparently his business was told about it a while ago. according to the "post," the notice suggested that, quote, criminality could apply to action by current and former

company executives and employees. of course news of an escalating criminal probe of the former president is a dramatic thing, right? we've never had a former president under criminal investigation before, ever, let alone a former president under criminal investigation simultaneously in multiple jurisdictions, all for different things. it's wild. but it is also, i think, worth being specific about how this story just advanced. honestly, all we know for sure is that in the course of its civil investigation into donald trump's business, the new york attorney general's office appears to have found something that looked criminal to them. and so they handed that part of it over to the manhattan d.a.'s office to prosecute. that's all we know for sure. but given that, we can tell more about how serious this might be. we first learned about the attorney general's civil investigation into the trump org through "the new york times,"

reporting in march of 2019. since then, through public court filings and public source regulatory, we've been able to figure out more about what those investigators may have been looking at, potential bank fraud, potential tax fraud. and we've learned specific details about how the investigation is going. we know in october, former president trump's son eric trump, the blond one, sat for a deposition with the attorney general's team. in november, we know subpoenas were issued to the trump organization relating to consulting fees paid to president trump's daughter ivanka. we know those subpoenas were issued as a result of groundbreaking investigative reporting done by suzanne craig and other reporters at "the new york times" who basically got the story of the year when they gained access to trump's long-secret tax records. if the new york attorney general's office has now decided they have found something potentially criminal in the evidence they're looking at, something that ought to be prosecuted criminally instead of just pursued with a civil lawsuit, what could that be?

how serious could criminal charges be that come about as a result? outside of the investigative offices themselves, the one person i know who knows the potential evidence here better than anyone else is the person who dug it up, is new york times investigative reporter suzanne craig who along with her pulitzer prize-winning team at "the new york times" have made more information public about donald trump and his business finances than anyone else. suzanne joins us live here next. stay with us. stay with us ar"] jaycee tried gain flings for the first time the other day... and forgot where she was. you can always spot a first time gain flings user. ♪ feel the cool rush of claritin cool mint chewables. powerful 24-hour, non-drowsy, allergy relief plus an immediate cooling sensation for your throat. feel the clarity, and live claritin clear.

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emergency planning for kids. we can't predict when an emergency will happen. so that's why it's important to make a plan with your parents. here are a few tips to stay safe. know how to get in touch with your family. write down phone numbers for your parents, siblings and neighbors. pick a place to meet your family if you are not together and can't go home. remind your parents to pack an emergency supply kit. making a plan might feel like homework, but it will help you and your family stay safe during an emergency. since we've been on the air this hour, cnn has just reported that the new york attorney general's office has opened a criminal tax investigation into the chief financial officer for the trump organization, a man named allen weisselberg. allen weisselberg has worked for president trump for decades and trump's father before him.

the tax investigation into weisselberg's personal finances was opened several months ago and is being handled by a small unit within the office that has the authority to bring criminal charges. that's interesting, the idea of a criminal probe at least of that trump organization executive being handled by the attorney general's office, because this news arrives as the attorney general's office last night has confirmed that some element of that office's ongoing civil investigation into the president's business has been converted into a criminal matter. "the new york times" is reporting today that that part of the prosecution, whatever was converted from civil to criminal, will now be handled by state prosecutors in the manhattan d.a.'s office. the cnn reporting tonight raising the prospect that criminal investigations related to the trump organization may now be simultaneously operating out of both offices. joining us now is suzanne craig, investigative reporter for "the new york times." she won the pulitzer prize for her reporting on two decades' worth of trump tax filings.

suzanne, thank you so much for being with us tonight, it's nice to see you. >> good to see you. >> i wanted your big picture perspective on this story. since the news broke last night, there's been a lot of debate and speculation about what it means and how serious it is. given what you know of trump's tax documents and financial documents, what you and your team have reported on, how serious do you think this is? what do you think is the most important thing about it? >> as you were reading that latest development, i just thought, wow, it's sure getting hot over there at the trump organization. i mean, there's a lot going on. it's an escalation, the fact that they are now bringing in a criminal aspect. the state is going to continue on a civil track, but they're also now going into a criminal area, and then separately, you know, allen weisselberg is of interest to investigators both at the manhattan d.a.'s office and at the state level. they're moving forward, you can see this case as on track and heading towards something.

>> what kind of timeline do you anticipate here? i mean, part of the reason we're all speculating is because prosecutors haven't showed up in court and filed any documents that we can see, there's certainly no indictments that we can see that would give us a public sense of what they are doing. that said, on the political timeline, the manhattan district attorney, the state prosecutor who appears to be handling this in new york, he is not running for reelection and will basically be in office through the end of the year. it seems unlikely that he would expect a case this big and this important to be handed off to a successor after he and his team have done years of work on it. does that affect your thinking in terms of how quickly this might move? >> it absolutely does, and i think the manhattan d.a., barring anything, will make a decision whether to go ahead. i think we'll probably see charges coming in the fall, before cy vance, the manhattan d.a., leaves office. there is a lot riding on him for this and i think they're working full-time, even before that, but

particularly since february when they got not just the tax return information that they got, but also tons of other documents they got from the accounting firm, financial information, financial statements, accountants' notes. i think they're just trying to piece it together. but i think they're working around the clock on that sort of deadline. i think the state as well, you're looking at -- i feel, and it just feels -- i don't know, but it feels like they're at the end of something, just with what they're doing. they're just making moves that would suggest at least the civil stuff is progressing. and they've been working on it for a year or two now as well. >> and suzanne, given what you know, what you have reported about the financial behavior of president trump and his business, and given what you are describing about what it seems like is happening in these investigations, what would a criminal indictment mean of a corporate entity, right? if the new york attorney

general's office's civil investigation turned up something that looked like a criminal matter and they've handed that to the d.a. to prosecute, maybe they've kept some other criminal element of it themselves, i know what a criminal prosecution of a person can mean, on tax fraud, bank fraud, insurance fraud, any of these kind of things. i don't necessarily know what it means for an entity, a corporate entity, to face a criminal indictment. >> we don't know yet what it looks like, if it is against the corporate entity. if it is, it's devastating to a corporate entity. and for individuals, it could mean a trial and possible jail time. we don't know what track they're heading down and who they're looking at. they're working up the food chain right now of individuals inside the trump organization and hoping to put enough pressure on them to get them to talk about donald trump. that seems to be where it's going. and they're in that phase now. there's a lot of pressure on allen weisselberg, the long time cfo of the trump organization, and possibly others within the trump organization.

the main accountant that handles donald trump's -- you know, the tax stuff, is also of interest to the manhattan d.a. and they've also had at least eric trump for an interview. so there's a lot going on. we don't know where they're heading with it and who may be of interest, who interest or being interviewed, there is certainly a lot of heat on a lot of people there. suzanne craig for "the new york times," thank you for helping us understand this. it is great to have you here >> great, good to see you. >> we'll be right back. stay with us. you. >> we'll be right back stay with us y business, but all my employees need something different. oh, we can help with that. okay, imagine this... your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee... yeah i should've just led with that... with at&t business...

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a couple of nights ago, k carol leonnig, she published her

book "zero fail," it went to number one on monday night ch it is an important book. one of the most bone chilling details of -- she writes about how former president trump donald trump removed the head of secret service and made him in charge of organizing all of president trump's campaign maga rallies last year. that same guy left the secret service behind, he now works a the secret service again as assistant director. he's now assistant director to keep president biden and vice president alive against all

threats. joe biden was not legitimately elected president. here is what they said on that point. the american people can rest assured that the u.s. secret service is apolitical and non partisan agency. our focus is not on politics but on uncompromising excellence and continual improvement. >> fantastic. secret service flatly asserting they have nothing to worry about without addressing the documented new pile of evidence pointing to the opposite conclusion. they don't address that at all. there is no consequences for any of the active duty service agents who publicly praised the january 6th attack and who said

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thanks for being with us tonight, i will see you tomorrow night. you know what tomorrow night is, friday's eve. now with lawrence o'donnel. >> good evening, rachel.