all right. that's our show. thank you so much for watching at home. it flew by and thank you to all those people who were joining the conversation on twitter. i'll be back next saturday at 10:00 a.m. eastern standard time, remember, live from tulsa, but stay tuned because my friend alex witt has the latest. hey, alex. >> i am so excited to see you from tulsa. that is amazing that you will be there on the 100th anniversary. you know what else is awesome? i stopped in the makeup room, the passion with which you led your 11:00 hour, i was listening to you and going you go, girl.

>> thank you, alex. you look gorgeous as always. >> okay, thanks. it's high noon in the east and -- rather, noon in the east and 9:00 amp m. in the west. i was supposed to say that, welcome to "alex witt reports." the release of body cam video related to the death of a black man by troopers in louisiana. these images in the video are graphic and disturbing. ronald green, a 49-year-old unarmed driver was taken into custody by louisiana state police in may 2019. troopers initially told green's family he died after crashing his suv into a tree after a high-speed chase. they acknowledge that green struggled with troopers and say actually, he died on the way to the hospital. yesterday's release of body cam video related to the incident indicates there was a violent detention.

>> i beat the ever living [ bleep ] out of him and choked him and everything else trying to get him under control and we finally got him in handcuffs when a third man got there and the [ bleep ] was still fighting and we were trying to hold him down because he's spitting blood everywhere and all of a sudden he just went limp. yeah. i thought he was dead. we sat help up real quick. he's on the ambulance en route to glenwood, and i'm hauling ass trying to catch up to him. [ indiscernible ] >> do you have body cam? >> that was the question and master trooper chris hollingsworth, died in a single-vehicle crash, days after he learned he would be fired for his role in the incident. the state police superintendent says the department has made leadership changes and conducted diversity training in the two years since this incident. >> oftentimes when we have events like this where we have some bad actors we cast

everybody into a net without taking into consideration the other troopers that are going out there and they are effecting public service the way it's supposed to be done. >> nbc's priscilla thompson is joining me from monroe, louisiana with the latest on this. the reak has been pretty stunning to all of this to this, what do you know, priscilla? >> alex, i just spoke to ronald green's mother mona, and she told me she has watched some of the newly released video, but she hasn't been able to watch all of it because it is like re-living this incident all over again, and that she can still hear his cries haunting her every day as she goes on. and as a reminder, the family has been calling for the release of this video, calling for greater transparency since this investigation began two years ago and now that is coming because of the associated press that began releasing those

videos and we heard the louisiana state police yesterday saying that because the video was not being released in its full context and all of its contents they were going to release it in its entirety, a major reversal from what they had been saying all week, was that they would not release this footage until the investigation had concluded, and you played that bite there of colonel lamar davis defending his agency and the various other troopers who are on duty right now, but of course, that defense comes as folks are getting a public look at this very disturbing footage. i want to play a little bit of what was caught on camera, a reminder, it is very disturbing. take a listen. >> let me see your [ bleep ] hands! let me see your [ bleep ] mother -- >> i'm sorry! i'm sorry! i'm scared! >> taser, taser, taser.

>> you're about to get it again if you don't put your [ bleep ] hands behind your back. mother -- you better not move. [ screaming ] >> blood all over. hope this guy st. got -- aids. >> nbc has now also obtained a copy of the autopsy report which did show that ronald green had cocaine and alcohol, high levels of that in his system and it also showed that he had a broken chest bone -- sorry, breast plate, a torn aorta and a head injury, and it is unclear whether he sustained those injuries as a part of the high-speed chase and ultimate car crash or if that happened in that struggle and altercation with police, but what we do know is that what the medical examiner has listed as the cause of death, and i want to quote this here is cocaine-induced agitated delirium complicated by motor vehicle collision physical

struggle, inflicted head injury and restraint. though notably that report did not list a manner of death. if it was a homicide, accidental or undetermined. and so i also had an opportunity to speak with the family attorney just a little while ago and he tells me that they are expecting within the next couple of months to see some action on this case. as a reminder, the state investigation has been ongoing for two years now. the family filed a wrongful death suit last year and that was when the federal civil rights investigation was opened late last year, but for now, all of these investigations still ongoing as the public is beginning to get more information about this case. alex? >> it is all stunning, priscilla thompson, thank you so much for that. we will bring in mark claxton, retired nypd detective and with the black law enforcement alliance. welcome.

i know my reaction was just pain watching that video. how about you? what went through your mind? >> i'm starting to refer to some of these video and this video in particular more as a police porn, if you will. it's obscene, it's hard to watch, difficult to watch, and it's not appropriate for all viewing audiences. it really is disturbing and painful, and it's becoming more any more difficult to watch and the level of violence and the level of just disrespect for humanity displayed by the police officers on that scene really makes it extremely difficult to watch. >> yeah. well, unfortunately, i am going to play another short clip that viewers may not have yet seen. again this is very disturbing and it shows officers spraying a handcuffed ronald green and he's handcuffed, face down. >> yes. >> okay!

oh, lord! okay! lord jesus! >> don't move. >> okay. i'm sorry. i'm sorry! >> so from a police perspective, mark, what is your assessment of this video and this situation? i mean, i know you said at the top your reaction to it, but from a police perspective? >> what we witnessed and what we will continue to witness, unfortunately, with videos being released, what we witnessed is an old-fashioned louisiana lynching, a group -- a gang killing under the cover of law, and it is a situation that we can't minimize, we shouldn't attempt to minimize it. we shouldn't act as if it is something that is just illegal

or unlawful. it is much deeper and much more insidious than that, and it requires additional investigation far beyond whatever local investigation could be conducted at this point. two years out they concluded that investigation. there needs to be immediate intervention, independent intervention into this incident and that police agency. there is absolutely no excuse for what we witnessed, what we know about the death of mr. green, and for that agency to continue in its current capacity. it's inexcusable. >> mark, how did this video stay quiet, stay unearthed for two years? >> in the -- in a toxic police culture and considering that there is an incestuous relationship between police agencies and prosecutors who really are supposed to be

protecting the people, the public, that incestuous relationship that exists kind of feeds off each other and allows for these type of tragedies and these type of disgraces to stay hidden for long periods of time. it requires extreme bravery and integrity for individuals who have access to this type of information and video particular to step forward and say, hey, listen. get a look at this because this is something that is unconscionable and it has to be addressed because if it is not addressed and if we ignore it and if we allow it then everyone is in a position of danger at the hands of law enforcement, of these police officers acting under the cover of law. >> mark clawsman, i thank you so much for addressing all of this on the show. thank you. let's take a look at the day's other top stories. president biden emerging from his first major foreign policy crisis now facing gop resistance

on three legislative fronts at home all coming to a head this week as the president hopes for bipartisanship and it seems to be dimming. the white house offering the republicans a counter proposal to biden's $2.2 billion, and lowering it to $1.7 billion and congress on the verge of missing a big deadline set by the president to have a police reform bill on his desk by tuesday which will mark one year since george floyd was murdered. that timeline was looking increasingly unrealistic as qualified immunity is still a major sticking point. the senate is expected to join a 9/11-style commission on the january 6th insurrection as soon as next week, but what started as a bipartisan bill is having no republican support in the senate as they broke ranks to support it, president biden says, quote, he hasn't given up

hope. let's go to monica alba joining us from the white house. welcome to you on this saturday. now that republicans have rejected the trimmed-down infrastructure bill, what happens next? >> i just posed that exact question to the president as he departed for camp david for the weekend, he did not stop and speak to reporters. often times the rotors of marine one are so loud, after seeing that counter proposal effectively said they believe that the two sides seem further apart after friday's negotiations. remember, this started out as a $2.25 trillion package. the white house and the president now slimming that down to $1.7 trillion, by making concessions in key areas so now we're getting a statement from the white house and spokesman andrew bates who specifically says when it comes to republicans the ball is now in their court to respond with a

good faith counteroffer. so this is now for those keeping track, it would be the counteroffer to the counteroffer to the original proposal. so we are seeing these face-to-face and virtual negotiations continue. remember, it was the president himself who had said he wanted to see major progress by memorial day, so just about a week from now and they really don't seem anywhere close to an agreed framework and they really don't agree on how to pay for this massive plans and the republicans huddle and their proposal was $568 billion and this number from the president is triple that amount. so there is still a major gulf between the two of them and this is a situation where the president may have to decide he wants to give democrats the green light to potentially pursue this in reconciliation and going it alone again like he did with the covid relief bill and the other major news at the white house was the president's behind the scenes involvement in

brokering that cease-fire between israel and gaza. and he defended his quiet, relentless diplomacy and not speaking so publicly until there was news of that agreement and this fragile piece, but he did speak out last night when pressed about progressives within his own party who are now talking about their support for palestinians and more critical of israel. he was asked pointedly whether his stance on the belief that israel has a right to defend itself has changed. take a listen. >> there is no shift in my commitment, the commitment to the security of israel. period. no shift. not at all. i will tell you where there is a shift. we still need a two-state solution. it is the only answer. i also indicated to the israelis that i thought it was very important that they stop in jerusalem this intercommunal fighting that are extremes on

both sides. it has to end. >> reporter: during that news conference the president was also asked to discuss his diplomacy in the delicate dance and he said the reason he believes he's been successful is because he doesn't talk about his private conversations and he did stress that he still trusts the prime minister benjamin netanyahu while talking about the importance of committing and pledging to a lot of humanitarian aid in gaza given all of the destruction there and that's why he's sending his secretary of state antony blinken to the region in the coming day, alex. >> he knows what he's doing when it comes to diplomacy. what did he spend, 36 years, on the senate foreign relations committee? it's pretty remarkable. thank you for that, monica alba. >> joining me is tim kaine. good to see you, sir. >> the cease-fire that exists between israel and hamas because

you have decades of conflicts between these two warring neighbors. what can the u.s. do right now to diffuse the situation today and to have long-term peace? >> i do think it is fragile, and we have this pent-up frustration over the complete absence of any progress toward meaningful peace between israel and palestine basically for the last 25 years and the frustration is intense and second, you've got some significant governance challenges. in israel, they've not been able to form a government after repeated elections. in palestine they recently canceled elections and so people are frustrated and when there's frustration the sad reality is violence often occurs and not just violence between palestinians in the west bank and gaza toward israel, but violence within israel among jews and arabs in communities where people have lived peacefully. so it's important to take forward steps. there have to be meaningful

steps towards finding a peace solution, at least initial steps between israel and palestine, but there also have to be as president biden said, steps to reduce tensions in israel. arab, jew, christian, muslim, jewish can feel they're treated equally. there is an opportunity for that, and there is a government attempting to form the israeli government is a coalition government and there's never been an arab political party that's been part of the governing coalition. something like that would send a strong signal and it's my prayer that something like that might occur as israel grappled going forward. >> that is a very interesting point you make there, sir. >> democratic congresswoman ilhan omar tweeted this, we should all be grateful that a cease-fire will prevent more civilians and children from

being killed and we need to stop underwriting crimes against humanity while doing nothing to end the occupation. what are your thoughts on her comments there? >> i'm glad that a cease-fire is under way, and we have to stop doing nothing. that's true. the united states, for a long time, has said our policy in israel and palestine is it's a two-state solution, but after stating it we do virtually nothing. we have to get in the game and now we have more partners in the game with us because the arab nations that have normalized relations with israel and now they have skin in the game, too, and they need to be brought to the table to help figure out what they can do to promote peace and to backstop economic opportunity and security in palestine. what i don't agree with the congresswoman about is it's time to start talking about war crimes. if you think getting deeply involved in the blame game right

now is going to advance peace, i don't think you're been paying attention. we need to be focusing on turning this cease-fire which is temporary into something her longtime and lasting and it is my sense that the blame game, which folks in israel and palestine, they're experts at it. i've seen them for years and it will not get us out of the cul-de-sac right now. >> no, good point. let's turn to infrastructure right now. white house officials presenting this $1.7 trillion counter proposal for republicans. the republicans aren't buying it. so what do you think of the $600 billion drop there? if a compromise can't come from this, at what point do you think democrats should try to go it alone? >> well, alex, as you know, we can do a bill by the reconciliation process which requires a simple party vote and democrats, we're going to do it. we would rather do it in a bipartisan way because that would make the bill better,

frankly, but if we cannot find republican cooperation, we're committed to invest in a historic way in american infrastructure. so i think the president had it right. he made an offer. the republicans did a counter that was about one-third of what he asked for. he's now come back agreeing to ratchet down his proposal and we'll see if the republicans make a counteroffer or not. if they don't, i think democrats will move forward to do what we can and we'll do it with the republican mayors and governors with the u.s. chamber of commerce that normally leaned republican, and people want us to do an infrastructure bill and we're not going to just throw up our hands because republicans draw an artificially low investment line in the sand and won't go past it. >> yeah. >> let's move, sir to the house which passed the legislation to create an independent commission to investigate the january 6th attack on the capitol.

so the senate could be voting as early as next week and there are reports that the gop could filibuster the bill. if that happens, does it strengthen the case for democrats to get rid of the filibuster? >> alex, great question. >> as you know, during the biden administration, we've been able to pass legislation in a bipartisan way so the republicans will not fill bester anything yet. we heard on this very bipartisan commission, it was reached as a bipartisan compromise in the house, very fairly put together. if they try to use the filibuster to block an analysis of why the capitol was attacked in january 2021 since the war of 1812, i think that will send a powerful message to democrats, that if they won't stand up against an attack on their own house then they're really not to be counted on in terms of doing

the things that the american public needs right now in the aftermath of this historically catastrophic year. so i think their effort, if they're successful in filibustering this commission, i think it will probably convince a lot of democrats if we will do what the american public needs we may have to go it alone. ? so here's some of the argument, though, on behalf of republicans. some of the colleagues oppose it because it's designed to be politically damaging to republicans and others are saying, look, there's already multiple probes under way so making a commission would be somehow redundant. how do you respond to those reasonings? >> they're inaccurate. the notion that it's designed to be politically damaging and it's designed to find the truth and if republicans think that's politically damaging that's another matter. alex, when you look at the way this was put together it's evenly divided between republican and democratic nominees to be on the commission.

the subpoena package require a majority vote of the commission which means nothing will get subpoenaed unless there is bipartisan support for the subpoena, and i think it's important for us to know how and why this attack happened so we can do everything in our power to keep it from ever happening again. i view the effort to stonewall this commission as essentially complicity in the big lie that president trump preached after the election, that he lost the election and it continues to revert around the nation with states passing voter suppression rules. we can't allow the big lie to flourish unchallenged and that's why this commission is so necessary. >> virginia senator tim kaine, always good to see you saturdayor sunday. great of you to put in o.t. with me. there is a way to identify whether someone has the coronavirus. it involves no real testing and it is happening right now. so we'll take you there next.

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>> to good news in the coronavirus pandemic. it fell for the first time since last june, according to johns hopkins university. the coronavirus deaths are also at the lowest level since this time last year and another sign of normalcy for you today. the return of the south beach wine and food festival in miami beach, but much of the focus remains on safety. officials at that event, they're using dogs that can actually sniff out covid. nbc's allison barber is there in miami beach. this is pretty extraordinary as you are there with that great-looking dog, allison. explain how this works? do we know if it really works? >> reporter: so they have studied this at florida international university and not just here. they've studied this internationally and the university of pennsylvania and

they say not only can they detect the scent of covid-19, but the dogs are really good at it. cobra here, her accuracy rate is 98%. watch how this works. so cobra and her handler john mills will show us what they're doing when guests arrive to this festival. as people make their way into the south beach food and wine festival they are greeted by dogs like cobra. cobra is one of four dogs working this event and she'll sniff their hands and you'll hear them explaining to people what she does to pick up smell from sweat of covid-19. one other tactic they do is the last people to take off their face mask so the dog can directly smell it there. more than 25,000 people are expected to attend this festival over the course of four days from thursday until sunday and again, the preliminary studies, they show that this works really well. if cobra or any of the other dogs were to detect covid-19 she would then sit down and that

person is pulled out of line and taken to a nearby tent where they would get a rapid test. preliminary studies in the united states and abroad. they will show that covid has a scent, dogs can smell it and they're very good at detecting it across the board at fiu and they've been studying this for the last year and a half and their dogs were effective and accurate 95% of the time. listen here. >> it's not the first time that dogs have been used to detect disease. they have a history of detecting everything from cancer, epilepsy, low blood sugars and things like that. it's a good idea to have the extra layer of security there. because of the successfulness of the dogs in detecting it, i think it is a possibility that we may see this happening more often. >> one of the things he says is communication. that is key at these events and if people will use dogs like cobra and making sure the signage clearly explains to people what the dogs are doing and cobra and the other dogs

only detect one thing. covid-19, that's all they're looking for and as they're moving into the space of people having to just trust each other. if you're wearing a mask, you're fully vaccinated and not having a vaccine passport that dogs like cobra can be the safety net to make people feel more comfortable heading out to big events like this one. >> i have to tell you the story puts a smile on my face and it's not just because of the beautiful backdrop there and congratulations to cobra. >> how the former president is reacting to news of the criminal probe of the trump administration. someone who knows him well paints a picture for us next. the patented blend is clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels. boost glucose control products contain high quality protein and key nutrients to support immune health. try boost. [lazer beam and sizzling sounds] ♪♪

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new reaction and in fact, new pressure on the former president as the new york attorney general elevates her inquiry into the trump organization into a criminal probe. let's go to msnbc's cory coffin

covering the intensifying probes for us. cory, welcome. we are hearing from former members of trump's inner circle. what are they saying about this? in addition to the elevation is the criminal probe into the trump organization, we are hearing alan weisselberg is facing a criminal investigation himself by the same office and it is into his own personal taxes in part thanks to documents provided by his former daughter-in-law, jennifer weisselberg. people within the trump organization or formerly within close proximity to the trump organization all believe that this is a pressure tactic to get investigators to be able to turn weisselberg on his boss and provide information that maybe he might not have been compelled to provide otherwise. msnbc spoke with former trump executive barbara wrest earlier

today. >> weisselberg has been with him forever, 15 years and probably the most trusted employee that trump ever had, and next to his bodyguard. there was never a question that alan would be loyal to my mind, but now that they're playing with his kids and maybe even implicating him, i don't see alan going to jail for trump. i think he's furious. i think he's looking for someone to blame immediately. >> reporter: all right. so trump for his part has denied any wrongdoing and he has come out in response to the elevation into the criminal probe that we're learning about this week. he has said, quote, there's nothing more corrupt than an investigation that's in a desperate search of a crime. the attorney general of new york literally campaigned on prosecuting donald trump before she even knew anything about me.

think, trump is referring to new york attorney general letitia james. this is want the first run-in they've had with the investigation and ms. james also investigated the trump charitable organization which led to in 2018 its dissolutionment and now the criminal probe is facing three other investigations nationwide and he is at the center of 29 counted lawsuits. >> let earna james, the a.g., meticulous pursuit of the truth there. thank you so much, cori coffin. zoining me now is zerlina maxwell and host of the show "zerlina" on peacock. curt bardella for the dccc, and that's a new one and elise jordan, former aide in the george w. bush white house and msnbc political analyst. welcome all of you, always good to see you. elise, the implications, how do you see them? >> you know, it doesn't look

good for donald trump any way you cut it. i do question how anything will happen to donald trump because nothing ever does and he manages to be completely unscathed no matter what how or what illegality that would imprison someone else and the new york attorney general is hammering down on donald trump and it looks like alan weisselberg might not hold firm and that is certainly a development that is going to evolve over the coming months and i think we should just pace ourselves. >> you know, zerlina, this is no small step. a former president under criminal investigation. what do you think this might look like to both americans and the rest of the world? >>. >> well, it certainly doesn't look like a 100% functioning democracy in the sense that you have this president, this former president who is under investigation leading one of the two major political parties off the cliff with him, and so i

think there are larger and broader implications because of the fact that the republican party is very much still beholden to donald trump as the leader of their party even though i don't know where he's going to be in 2022, alex, and i don't know that i would put a lot of money on whether or not he will be able to run for president or frankly, even campaign for these house republicans in 2022. so around the world, they have to be looking and shaking their heads, as an american i'm very concerned about the safety and security of our democrat see as republicans continue to set the precedent that they don't want to believe election results. >> yeah. let's switch gears and talk about the upcoming vote on the senate on the bipartisan january 6th commission right now and no republican senators are reporting this commission in its current form. democrats, yes, they could go it alone and we were talking to senator tim kaine and he

addressed that. both sides have an equal say -- equal say over who is called to testify. is there any logical reason for not supporting this commission? >> listen, the only reason why republicans appear to not want to get behind this commission is clearly, they're afraid of what this commission will find out and how it will implicate individual members in congress. i mean, you cannot ask for a more bipartisan approach to investigate the events of january 6th than this proposal. the equal number of members and they get a say in who gets subpoenaed and who gets called and this is bipartisan down the line and the fact that republicans are coming down against this tells us that they don't want to get to the truth of the events that led up to january 6th, and clearly kevin mccarthy is worried and doesn't want to face questioning in front of this type of commission. >> because he had a call -- i hate to interrupt, but we have

to remind viewers he had a call with donald trump on january 6th about the contents of that call might be a bit unnerving. >> yeah. >> it has to be. >> and again, it -- on it's so bizarre that any person that has sworn an oath to protect the constitution of the united states wouldn't want to come forward and volunteer to provide information about what happened there. this was a deadly and dangerous and violent and unprecedented act on our united states capitol. something has to be bigger nan partisan politics and something has to take precedent over the day to day squabbles, and you would think an attack of the capitol were wanting to hang the sitting vice president of the united states, and no republican and no democrat, how you can oppose not wanting to get those

facts is beyond me. >> can we also note and we'll talk with others that mike pence's brother who is a congressman voted against the prospect of having this commission, your brother was being hunted by these folks. it's extraordinary. and this commission will be politicized. how can this person is the current leader of the republican party, that party should face some of the blame, right? >> absolutely, alex. and i just think, though, that we should go back and look at what happened with the second impeachment. i think it was a critical mistake not to call witnesses during the second impeachment proceedings so that the fact pattern, it's out there and witnesses are called and they have to testify about what they knew, men and women working in the trump white house and different people that were contacted such as kevin mccarthy

by donald trump the day of the insurrection, and so i think that that was a critical misstep by democrats because with more distance four months later, you see republicans who previously were scared for their lives in trying to barricade doors from insurrectionists trying to hang mike pence and kill various congressional members and they're seeing how they're trying to minimize it just for their political futures because they think it's better to just move on. >> you know what? future is the operative word here, zerlina. let's take a listen to the reasoning that senator john thune gave for not wanting the commission. >> anything that gets us rehashing the 2020 election i think is a day lost on being able to draw contrast between us and the democrats very radical left-wing agenda. >> so is that what this is for republicans? let's just forget about january 6th and we don't have to deal

with it anymore and we can move on to the 2020 re-election campaigns? >> apparently senator john thune is unaware that in a couple of dozen states that republicans on the state level have not forgotten the 2020 election and essentially every single day on the state level in arizona and georgia, you have republicans rehashing the 2020 election. if you can't have the leader of republicans in congress or on the state level, the folks that are running these elections stand up and say, look, was there no fraud in this election. in fact, all of the house members and i say this every saturday, alex, all of the house members who are republicans accepted the election results, they got sworn in based on the results in that election. there was no fraud in that election because they accepted that win. in just the case of donald trump they have an issue. so it's not -- the problem is not democrats rehashing. the commission is the best case

scenario for republicans. it is outside of politics and you have equal representation and you have power in order to get subpoenas, subpoena information they want. they clearly, at least senator ron johnson thinks that it was was antifa, so what are you afraid of? investigate. find out if those people carrying trump flags and yelling stop the steal, were antifa, we can find that out if we have a commission, and now they're setting up some type of hearings in congress that will not let them look good for 2022. they'll be televised on tv wall to wall, gavel to gavel, and you'll have them saying things like it was a normal tourist visit when you see that that was not the case, and so i think that the commission was actually the best case scenario for them. they're the ones stuck in 2020. >> all excellent points you made, zerlina. curt, i'm sorry short changing

you this time, but i'll make it up, my friend. >> absolutely. >> catch "zerlina" wednesdays at 6:00 eastern on the peacock streaming channel, the choice. when a black homeowner asked her white friend led to something so disturbing that it brought her to tears. we're going to meet her next. to shine your brightest. ♪ as you charge ahead. illuminating the way forward. a light maker. recognizing that the impact you make comes from the energy you create. introducing the all-electric lyriq. lighting the way. ♪ like many people with moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's disease, i was there. be right back. but my symptoms were keeping me from where i needed to be.

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a discrimination complaint after the value of her house in indianapolis more than doubled when she hid her race from appraisers. nbc's priscilla thompson spoke to her and here is part of her report. >> her home was valued at $259,000 more than double that of her previous two appraisals. >> i screamed with joy. i was so elated and then it just -- it quickly dissipated, and then i just cried. >> duffy's experience isn't isolated. >> homes in black neighborhoods equivalent to their white counterparts and some are social circumstances, are underpriced by 23%, about 48,000 per home and that adds up to $156 billion in lost equity. >> this month duffy filed a complaint with the u.s. department of housing and urban development alleging discrimination in both her

appraisal and lending process. >> you are taking away my family's ability to create generational wealth. >> in statements to nbc news, citywide home loans denied any discrimination and said they are actively part us pating in the hud investigation. freedom mortgage said they used an automatic automated valuation model and stood by the value. none of the appraisals named in the complaint responded to nbc's request for comment. >> carla duffy is joining me now along with amy nelson executive director of the fair housing center of indiana. welcome, ladies, to both of you. carlet, let's go time. first appraisal, you were looking for a refi on your home. 125 grand. second appraisal, 110 grand and then what did you do to flip

that up to $259 grand the third time you got the appraisal. you said you hid your face. what does that mean? >> i basically hid myself throughout the entire process. so when i applied for that final loan i did not -- i did not reveal my race or my gender, my ethnicity and so then also when i went through actually scheduling the appraiser once they were assigned to me i asked my friend to schedule the appointment and i communicated with them via email. >> and i understand this to be a white friend of yours that stood in and sort of alluded that he being your brother that you couldn't make it to this appraisal when the appraiser gets there. so you only communicated via

email at that point with that third assessment and that's the only way you did it, and that's the only way you felt it would be fair? >> yes. i didn't even want them to hear my voice. i didn't want them to make any assumptions as to what my race could potentially be, and i just have to say it's because i have such great friends, you know, who are my allies in the struggle that i was even able to have the ability of having their assistance in this process. >> and how did you even think to do that? what made you think this may be the resort i have to get to? >> well, the new york times article with the family in florida, that's what really sparked this for me because at a community meeting and amy was speaking and she was talking about consent decrees and banks and whether or not they were conforming to those decrees in

indianapolis and she also brought up the article around the exact same time, my best friend sent me the same article, and so after i read it i was just -- it was just the light that went on, and i said, you know what? i need to try this. this is what i need to do. >> yeah. amy, let me ask you this. how does all the lost equity that would be potentially here and the generational wealth equity that would be lost for carlette, explain what that is. >> what carlette was trying to do was refinance to be able to help her family and she was doing that through the equity she thought that she had gained in her home and for so many of us in this country, the primary way that we build wealth is through home ownership and the passing down that home ownership, that generation wealth to our kids and grandkids and that's used for updating your home and keeping it -- putting your kids into schools

and saving money for retirement, and all of that comes from the equity in that home. >> and how often does this kind of thing happen, amy? >> well, i work in -- i work for a fair housing center so unfortunately, we see discrimination way too often, but what we've seen since the new york times story is the growing number of blacks and african-americans who feel that by speaking up, their voices will finally be heard because we know that there's bias in the appraisal industry. we see that in the data that's being made available on an almost weekly basis. >> now, one last thing, though, a lot of these appraisers say this is my assessment and another will say this is my assessment. is there anything that can stymie your efforts there from your office and your position because they say this is how i saw it, this is how i saw it in terms of the valuation of the home? >> well, we need to make changes within the appraisal industry. first of all, there is a significant lack of diversity.

it is 85% -- appraisers are 85% white and 70% male, first of all, so we need to make sure that there is diversity reflected in the appraisal industry, as well, and there is a lot of science. they say that it's art over science and there is a lot of science there, but what we need to make sure is when comps are used when comps aren't used that have institutionalized discrimination baked into them because otherwise it's just perpetuating the problem. >> carlette and amy, i want to thank you for joining me to bring the light -- to shine the light on all of this. i know your home is worth $259,000 to you because it is your home. >> thank you. >> very true. thank you, alex. i really appreciate it. courage comes to the rescue on a new york subway platform. that's next.

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♪♪ ♪♪ ♪ a very good day to all of you from the brokaw news center in los angeles. welcome, everyone, to "alex witt reports." developing for you this hour issue the senate is expected to voes on a house passed to crow eight a bipartisan commission to investigate the attack on the capitol help the prospects of getting ten republican senators to vote in favor is looking pretty slim