>> it would be very easy to be angry. i don't want them to see the bad part of it. i want them to turn that bad situation into something positive. >> that's all for this edition of dateline, i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. >> i'm craig melvin. >> and i'm natalie morales. >> and this is dateline. >> how do you feel that so many people think stephen avery is innocent? >> it's emotional. >> they made him look like he was a nice person? what's happening is wrong, the evidence is beyond overwhelming. stephen avery is guilty. >> i'm innocent. >> the story gripped the nation in a serious making a murderer. >> so many americans have learned about it. >> it's being heard by people around the world.

>> steven avery and his nephew convicted of murder and the haunting killing of a young photographer. but where that really innocent? >> i didn't do it. somebody is doing a good job on me. >> did you have any kind of vendetta against steven a very? >> absolutely not. >> for the first time on television, a lead investigator defenses interrogation, which led to a conviction overturned. >> this was seen by many as a false confession. >> i feel it was a real confession. >> we just need you to be honest with us. >> right from wrong. >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way and they got it in the worst way. >> the prosecutor fights back with an explosive book. >> people are going to hear the other side of the story. >> and stephen evers high powered new attorney. >> do you think you have new evidence that could free stephen avery? >> we do. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> welcome to dateline.

it's an extraordinary case that defies easy answers. at the center of it all, stephen avery. he and his teenage nephew or convicted in the brutal murder of wisconsin photographer-y theresa halbach. then came a documentary series exploring allegations of police corruption, so explosive, and vested gaiters had been forced to fight back. two sides, one truth. who will you believe? >> the mystery of what happened here in the sprawling fields of right wisconsin captivated the country. >> where the jury find the defendant, steven avery guilty. >> in 2015, the netflix series making a murderer convinced many viewers that steven avery and brendan dassey convicted of murder had been railed by law enforcement. it's a case state line has been following for more than a decade. as their lawyers worked

tirelessly to free them from prison, we pose the questions everyone has been asking to two men who helped put avery and dassey behind bars. >> why would steven avery do this? >> great question. >> we speak with former prosecutor can kratz who's written a book which reveals his provocative theory. that steven avery made himself a murderer. >> stephen avery started planning this event the very first day he went to prison. >> and we talk with tom fassbender a lead investigator in the case who is come under fire for this controversial interrogation. >> you've stayed silent for this firestorm. why are you sitting here today? >> realized that someone needed to speak out, to bring forward the truth of what happened. >> so, what did happen here? our story begins with a woman at the heart of this case, a 25-year-old photographer from wisconsin named teresa halbach.

>> she loved being behind the camera. >> kim and teresa became friends and college. both were photographers working at the same studio and green bay. kim says teresa had a special weight her subjects. >> she would get a smile. that's one thing i think she loved to do, make other people smile. >> the two-state in touch after graduation as they launched their careers. that would all change suddenly on october 31st, 2005. kim caught a story on the local news, teresa was missing. >> investigators say 25-year-old photographer was on assignment for auto trader magazine, when she disappeared. >> my heart kind of dropped knowing it was somebody i knew. >> what do you do? >> i felt helpless. you want to just deny it. you want to try to get in touch with her. >> did you try to call her? >> i did try to text her, but -- >> no response? >> no response. >> wisconsin police quickly launched a massive search, bolstered by a team of

volunteers after two days, a big break. >> we have found a rav4. >> they found her vehicle in the salvage yard. >> tom fassbender a special agent with the wisconsin department of criminal investigation hustled over to this 40 acre stretch of land in manitowoc county home to the salvage yard and auto mechanic steven avery. >> had you heard his name before? >> only three media. >> steven avery was a big story. he'd been convicted of rape in 1985. 18 years later, dna evidence exonerated him and he was freed. a wrongfully convicted man welcomed back into society with open arms, and looking for justice of his own. >> were you aware he had filed a lawsuit against the local sheriff's department? >> i had heard. that >> avery hoped winning the 36 million dollar lawsuit could help him get back on his feet. >> he had an opportunity to make something of his life, and it appeared it was headed in

that direction. >> now, two years after his release from prison, this poster boy for wrongful convictions was back in the news, and not in a good way. >> i hope she comes back so she can go back to her family. >> when fassbender arrived on site, it learned teresa halbach had a appointment at the salvage yard on october 31st to take photos of this avery's sister was selling. teresa left a message that morning. >> hello, this is to reason with auto trader magazine. i'm with the photographer and i'm giving a call to let you know that i can come out there today. in the afternoon, and it would probably be around 2:00. >> steven avery confirmed to investigators that teresa had been on the property that they, and left around 2:30 pm. avery didn't tell them much more, but for investigators, a dark tail started emerging from the physical evidence, especially when they made a gruesome discovery in the back up to reassess suv. >> we find teresa's blood in the vehicle primarily in the

cargo area of the rav4. >> and in the front, more blood. >> there was blood on some of the upholstery and very telling swipe of blood near the ignition switch on the vehicle. >> tests showed that blood was steven avery's, taking him from person of interest to prime suspect. >> you believe you can explain the blood from steven avery? >> yes, absolutely. steven avery had a cut on his right hand, middle finger that was freshly scrapped over and if you took that key and you put it in the ignition switch and just lined up perfectly with a contact pattern swipe. >> how did he explain that cut? >> i'm not sure if i remember. that i think he claims he had cut it in the junk yard, doing work on vehicles. >> fast bender feared the worst. after four days of searching, his team found something disturbing in a fire pit near avery's trailer. >> what appeared to be bone fragments. >> human bones.

most interesting because family members told investigators that stephen avery had built a bonfire hours after teresa had been at the yard that day. >> it was a huge bond fire, flames going as high as the edge of the roof of the garage. >> was it making sense to you? >> looking at the whole picture? absolutely. >> and that picture came into sharper focus one fassbender's team found another clue. teresa's key inside avery's bedroom. >> the toyota key with a little fog connected to it. >> this is huge. >> yes, it's huge. >> especially when the crime lab later found avery's dna on it. it would become a highly controversial clue in this case. the evidence was stacking up against steven avery, and fassbender says that wisconsin rav4 rav4 would later tell investigators one last thing. >> we tested the hot and found dna matching stephen on the hood latch. >> fassbender believed avery had some explaining to do. nine days after teresa's

disappearance, he and his partner, mark wiegert brought avery in for an investigation. >> the key is in your bedroom. you know the key is it because you put the key there. that's the only way the key gets there. >> no. >> yes, steve, yes. >> a tour was defined and claimed cops were framing him, planting evidence. >> that's the way it is. >> the evidence, the cops got the evidence. >> last thunder and wiegert weren't buying. it and placed stephen avery under arrest. >> we're not mad at you, okay? >> somebody is doing a good job on me. >> investigators were convinced they had their man. still, they didn't know how or why teresa had been killed. >> coming up, shackles, handcuffs, strange behavior. >> teresa is creeped out. >> could something in his past have led him to murder? when dateline continues. dateline continues.

with dupixent adults saw long-lasting, clearer skin and significantly less itch. don't use if you're allergic to dupixent. serious allergic reactions can occur including anaphylaxis, which is severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems, such as eye pain or vision changes, or a parasitic infection. if you take asthma medicines don't change or stop them without talking to your doctor. talk to your doctor about dupixent. so what's going on? [dog] i'm a talking dog. to your doctor. the other issue. [dog] oh...i'm scratching like crazy. you've got some allergic itch with skin inflammation. apoquel can work on that itch in as little as 4 hours, whether it's a new or chronic problem. and apoquel's treated over 9 million dogs. [dog] nice. and... the talking dog thing? is it bothering you? no... itching like a dog is bothering me.

until dogs can speak for themselves, you have to. when allergic itch is a problem, ask for apoquel. apoquel is for the control of itch associated with allergic dermatitis and the control of atopic dermatitis in dogs. do not use apoquel in dogs less than 12 months old or those with serious infections. apoquel may increase the chances of developing serious infections and may cause existing parasitic skin infestations or pre-existing cancers to worsen. new neoplasias were observed in clinical studies and post-approval. most common side effects are vomiting and diarrhea. feeling better? [dog] i'm speechless. [dog] thanks for the apoquel. that's what friends are for. ask your veterinarian for apoquel. next to you, apoquel is a dog's best friend. you know they're out there: morning, noon and night, eye allergens are on the attack, and the itch can stay with you 24-hours a day. get pataday once daily relief extra strength. the first and only 24-hour eye allergy itch relief drop now without a prescription. a single drop of pataday once daily relief extra strength works on the cells that make your eyes itch...fast. in minutes you get relief that lasts 24 hours.

that's a full day and night in one drop. make it a pataday with the drop that's right for you. available everywhere at carvana, we treat every customer like we would treat our own moms, with care and respect. to us, the little things are the big things. which is why we do everything in our power to make buying a car an unforgettable experience. happy birthday. thank you. we treat every customer like we would treat our own moms. because that's what they deserve. >> in january 2006, steven

avery pleaded not guilty to the murder of teresa halbach. special prosecutor ken kratz began building his case. he chronicles at all in his book. avery. >> what do you feel people know the least about in this case? >> the book is about the case against steven avery that is setting forth a better

representation about the real evidence was. >> better, he said, then the way the evidence was presented in making a murderer. in his book, kratz laid out his complete theory of the case with new details he had never shared before. for one thing, kratz told dateline he believes stephen avery had set his sights on teresa halbach in the weeks leading up to her murder. >> as we move closer towards october 31st, we see steven's behavior changing. >> as kratz got auto traders records, he learned teresa had made five earlier visits to the avery salvage art to take photos, some at steven avery's request. >> he starts making calls directly to teresa halbach rather than going through auto trader. >> and kratz determined on the day before one of those visits, avery purchased these shackles and handcuffs and when teresa rivaled -- >> he answers the door that day, wearing a small white towel, and teresa, we know, is creeped

out by that behavior. she tells friends, and coworkers about that. >> kratz believes avery's behavior show signs of a sexual obsession with teresa that led to murder. >> why would stephen avery do this when he was on the verge of getting this big windfall, potentially millions of dollars? >> great question. you know, i don't know. we know he is a psychopath. we know he -- >> do we know that we? >> let's say i allege that, okay? i believe that, deep down. >> kratz discovered more in avery's past. 18 years before to reassess murder, everett wrote this letter to his estranged wife from prison, saying, i will tell you. and a former fiancée told police he had physically abused her. and kratz said he learned something more disturbing. this 2006 police report shows a teenage girl accused avery of raping her, a year after his release from prison.

it all came together for kratz. he believes avery developed a deep resentment of women, which had started with his wrongful conviction, and had only grown over the years. >> he has no remorse for his behavior, feels incredibly entitled. >> but as he continued to investigate the case, kratz had a problem. >> you didn't know how she was killed, exactly where she was killed. was that bothering you? >> yes, but sometimes you have what you have. it was all coming together in bits and pieces. >> he and his team kept digging until they got a big lead. >> let's have a seat. >> and march, 2006, four months after teresa's murder, tom fassbender and his partner mark wiegert spoke with a very 16 year old nephew, brandon dassey in a series of no highly scrutinized interviews. >> what was your first impression of brendan dassey? >> he's shy. somewhat introverted. >> but once he opened up, the

details he revealed would stun investigators. >> what else did he do to her? >> raped her. >> did he tell you that? >> fassbender says dassey described a brutal scene. on that halloween afternoon, it's uncle asked him to come to his trailer. dassey said they each sexually assaulted teresa and avery's bedroom and avery later shot her in his garage, burning her body in the bonfire. >> it's a game-changer. he told the stuff we weren't aware of. like teresa was shot in the garage. and died there. >> after speaking with dassey, fassbender had his team return to the avery property once more. and they found this in his garage, a bullet fragment. >> that was missed the first time? >> i guess i could say it was missed, but you're talking about bullet fragments, a bullet fragment looks like a piece of dirt, possibly. >> it was tested? it was tested, yes. her dna was on that boat and the boat was shot from stevens

rifle, and one above his bed. >> do you believe that teresa was shot in that garage? >> yes. >> one strange thing, though, when they searched the garage for blood, they never found a drop. >> how could you clean up all that blood? >> to the best of his ability, i guess. bleach, paint thinner, cleans up blood. >> teresa's friend kim says when she heard the details about teresa's final moments, she was heartbroken. >> i remember crying and hoping she was who she was and fought because she was a very strong person. >> ken kratz charged brendan dassey as a coconspirator and her murder. >> i intend to hold each of these defendants accountable for the rape, the torture, and the murder of teresa halbach. >> but not so fast. dassey recanted his statements. just before avery's trial, the judge dismissed the rape charge against them, and didn't allow any of those allegations about

avery's treatment of women, saying they didn't prove anything about teresa's murder. and avery was never charged with assaulting his ex fiancée, or with raping the teen. to this day, he denies all the allegations. and those handcuffs and shackles? no evidence that were linked them to teresa. still, in the spring of 2007, juries and separate trials convicted both dassey and avery of murdering teresa. they were each sentenced to life in prison. >> you are probably the most dangerous individual ever to set foot in this courtroom. >> it seemed the avery saga had ended, but eight years later, making a murderer put fassbender, kratz, and their entire team in the hot seat. >> coming up -- >> today plant evidence? sure they did. >> was steven avery framed? >> is it possible that blood could have been planted? >> when dateline continues.

>> in december, 2015, netflix released making a murderer. and it ignited a bonfire of controversy over the convictions of steven avery and brendan dassey. now, many viewers believe the claims avery had been making all along, that he was framed by law enforcement. >> who would want to set you up in something like this? >> the only thing i can think of is manitowoc county with the money, so they didn't have to

pay nothing out. >> did they plant evidence? >> sure, they did. >> kim is avery's cousin who predicted something might happen to him after exonerated from the rape case. he recently filed a lawsuit against his local sheriff's department for his wrongful conviction. >> i did tell him, manitowoc wasn't done with them. >> why did you think that? >> something told me they weren't going to hand steven avery $36 million for any kind of money. they were going to be watching him and, look what happened. >> avery ended up settling that lawsuit for $400,000 before his trial. the county did not acknowledge any wrongdoing. they used the money to hire his defense attorney is, dean strang and jerry buting. >> we knew it would be a difficult events. >> we spoke to buting in 2016. >> we had a tough defense in this case, because nobody wants to try and use a defense that

the police deliberately tried to plant evidence, or framed somebody. >> it goes against society, people are there to help us, they are the police. >> right, but it's where we thought the evidence pointed. >> avery's attorneys believe the fact that officers from the county he was suing were part of the search made for a huge conflict of interest. and for a possible mischief at the crime scene. >> but i could say is from evidence i've looked, i think he was innocent, is anderson. >> preparing for trial, buting learned about a vial of avery's blood left over from his overturned rape conviction, which had been sitting in the manitowoc county clerk's office. >> we saw there was a styrofoam box, this had been slipped open with evidence tape. >> that's the big law moment? >> it was. >> for many viewers, it was the a hot moment in making a murderer. >> a tiny hole. >> the attorneys theorize that someone could've poked a hole

in that vial and spread avery's blood inside teresa halbach's as heavy. as for teresa's car key? >> your theory is the key was planted in the residence. >> that is where we thought the evidence pointed, yes. >> by the police? >> by someone. it was not found in six or seven earlier entries to the trailer. we are talking about a trailer. it didn't add up. >> kobe done best together tom fassbender worked alongside the local county sheriff's deputies, but was employed by different agency that was department of justice. the first time you responded publicly to the accusations against him and his former law enforcement colleagues >>. did you have any kind of vendetta against steven avery or his family? >> absolutely not. i didn't know steven avery, it is no his family, never been there. >> fassbender brussels at the idea the local investigators could have done anything unethical. >> the people that were there that i worked with from manitowoc county your hardworking, they only wanted

to do the right thing, to do this investigation the right way. >> is it possible that blood could have been planted? >> no. everything, all the evidence says no. >> fassbender now it's a chemical called royal edta had been used to preserve avery's blood in the trial and -- found in the suv. >> didn't match edta in the blood in the vehicle. >> fassbender's argument? since that blood found in the vehicle didn't contain the chemical, it couldn't have come from the vile, and he notes a nurse was prepared to testify she had made that hole in the vial as part of her usual routine when she drew blood from avery. >> the fact there is a little hole in the top of the vile is normal. >> regarding to resist harkey? not found until the seventh a search of a breeze trailer? >> why was the key missed during those other searches? >> primarily because where the

key was located in a small bookcase, that wasn't searched yet. if it was, it was kind of looked at. >> why not do the thorough search earlier? >> part of it is because we didn't lock and load on steven avery. we went in there, do the first surge, but we had 12 more buildings and for more residents to search. we had a lot to do. >> still, it wasn't just when the key was found that has avery supporter skeptical. it's who found it. these two men, james lenk and andrew colborn. with the manitowoc county sheriff's department, it turned out they had just been deposed in avery's lawsuit. >> they were supposed, we later found out. >> do you think maybe them, by nature, being with manitowoc, maybe they shouldn't have been in there at all? to avoid all of this? the speculation? >> it's easy to bench your quarterback then second guess. maybe would've done that if we had resources, but you're

talking about a small rural county. being assisted by novel another smaller role county, you need resources. >> steven avery says these guys had it out for him? the whole department was angry at him, it was the perfect opportunity for them to have access to my trailer, planned the key. >> i never saw that. never saw that from anyone in manitowoc county. >> fassbender says he believes a conspiracy to frame avery would have been virtually impossible to carry out. >> i could go on and on about the planting defense and how absurd this with the multiple agencies we had in their. >> i'm your friend right now. >> but it was that video of brendan dassey, which would really put fassbender at the center of the storm. an interrogation so controversial it might get a breeze nephew out of prison. >> how much of brendan dassey's confession was true? coming up -- >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way, and they got it in the worst

way. >> when dateline continues. n dateline continues namaste... ...surprise parties. aww, you guys. dupixent helps prevent asthma attacks... ...for 3!... ...so i can du more of the things i love. dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems. it's an add-on-treatment for specific types of moderate-to-severe asthma that can improve lung function for better breathing in as little as two weeks. and can reduce, or even eliminate, oral steroids. and here's something important. dupixent can cause serious allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. get help right away if you have rash, shortness of breath, chest pain, tingling or numbness in your limbs. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection, and don't change or stop your asthma treatments, including steroids, without talking to your doctor. are you ready to du more with less asthma? just ask your asthma specialist about dupixent.

this past year has felt like a long, long norwegian winter. but eventually, with spring comes rebirth. everything begins anew. and many of us realize a fundamental human need to connect with other like-minded people. welcome back to the world. viking. exploring the world in comfort... once again. >> i'm dara.

brian here's what's happening. a suspect arrested after an attack on a jewish man in times square in new york. he's facing multiple charges including assault as a hate crime. the attack followed rival pro israel and pro palestinian demonstrations. federal officials seized almost 70 big cats from tiger king park in oklahoma. tigers, lions, lying and tiger hybrids and a jaguar were rescued. park is run by jeffrey low who's featured in the netflix docuseries, tiger king. now back to dateline. w back to dateline ♪ ♪ ♪ >> welcome back to dateline. i'm craig melvin. investigators deny they framed steven avery for the murder of teresa halbach. after all, his nephew brendan dassey confessed. but did he tell detectives the truth, or what he thought they

wanted to hear? here with more of our store is andrea canning. >> all the renewed attention in the steven avery saga shed light on the other defendants in the case, brendan dassey. the teenager had been convicted of rape and murder. to his family, none of it ever made any sense. >> is biden someone capable of rape? >> no. i don't even think he knew what that was at the time. >> in 2008, attorneys stephen and lauren took up his appeal. >> they saw a mentally challenged teams a low iq. >> what did you think of brendan dassey when you're able to meet him in person? >> brandon is a simple soul. struck by his humanity. this is not somebody i could see committing a crime like this. >> that's the psychological power of interrogation. >> the two attorneys are based

at the northwestern university school of law in chicago. they worked for a number of wrongfully convicted defendants. somebody learned what they learned about dassey's a standard them. >> no one was in's a corner. at the moment, he needed help the most. >> beginning, they say, with this man. >> give me one word to describe len kachinsky? >> unbelievable. >> unconscionable. >> kachinsky he won four to defend dassey after that interrogation god avery's nephew arrested. they discovered the attorney made legal mistakes that caused him to be removed from the case. he faced online vitriol from dassey supporters. >> is it okay if i read you some comments? >> sure, go ahead. >> disgusting human being, appeared disgrace to the wisconsin judicial system. a man with a sick and soul. >> i've seen it. >> in one instance, kachinsky working to cut a plea deal while dassey wasn't jail

arrange for his client to speak with investigators. but kachinsky himself didn't show up. >> that i staffer in the stomach. >> that was clearly a mistake. >> this is huge, though. you've got a 16-year-old kid with a low iq, with no attorney present, no parent. it's kind of like feeding someone to the walls, and away. would you apologize to brendan dassey? >> well i'd apologize to him for not being at the interview. >> there were mistakes made? >> sure. but none of them contributed to the condemning of dassey's case. >> people disagree with that. >> sure. >> but as dassey's attorneys dealt further into those stunning statements the team made, they came to believe something more disturbing. investigators tom fassbender and mark wiegert had coerced the teen into making a false confession. >> these officers took advantage of a disabled youth, and got him to say what they

wanted him to say. >> don't lie to us now, okay? come on. what happened? >> we're just hurting yourself if you lie now. >> it's got severe warning disabilities, an ability to respond in a narrative type answers. and they're in precisely the areas that make him vulnerable to the kind of tactics the police officers used in this case. >> the attorneys say the investigators manipulated dassey with coaxing statements like these from fassbender, i was seated just off camera. >> i'm your friend right now. it's all right. you are doing the right thing. >> they should never have made those kinds of suggestions that they wanted to comfort him. that all would be well. those kinds of tactics when used on a kid like brendan dassey are a recipe for false confessions. >> and they say the investigators manipulation of the teen escalated far beyond simple coaxing. >> the officers needed brendan

dassey to provide information that only the real killer would know. and they knew what they wanted him to say. >> they accused the investigators of planting details about the crime in dassey's mind to get the answers they wanted. for example, remember steven avery's dna found on the car hood latch? the attorneys say investigators asked dassey leading questions to confirm his uncle had looked under the hood of the car. >> did he raise the hood at all, or anything like that? to do something to the car? >> yeah. >> what did he do under the hood, if that's what he did? >> i don't know what he did. but i know he went under. >> and dassey's say in that interview, the investigators used another crucial detail they learned about the case from the forensics. >> tell us. and what else to do? something with the head. >> they had received a report from the wisconsin crime lab

indicating for the first time how teresa halbach had died. she had been shot in the head. they worked extremely hard to get brendan dassey to say that. >> and we have the evidence, brendan. we need you to be honest with us. >> they cut off for her. >> what else was done to her head? >> that he punched her. >> what else? it's okay, but did he do? >> cut her. >> what else happens to her, and her head? >> extremely, it's really important to tell us this, for us to believe you. >> come on, brendan. what else? >> that's all i can remember. >> all right. i just going to come out and ask you, who shot her in the head? >> he did. >> why didn't you tell us that? >> because i couldn't think of it. >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way, and they got it in the worst

way. beating it straight to brendan dassey. >> even they know that's bad police practice. >> then, they discovered something at the end of that interview, which was a revelation to them. something jurors in his trial never heard. dassey speaking to his mother. >> i never did nothing or something. >> did you? >> not really. >> what do you mean, not really? >> they got to my head. >> what? >> as the first moment that brendan dassey gets outside the influence of those interrogators, he says, no, this isn't true. they got to my head. >> but tom fassbender, the interrogator himself, sees it all very differently. >> coming up -- >> this was seen by many as a false confession. >> i feel it was a real confession. he knew right from wrong. brendan was involved in this.

>> when dateline continues. n dateline continues feel the cool rush of claritin cool mint chewables.

powerful 24-hour, non-drowsy, allergy relief plus an immediate cooling sensation for your throat. feel the clarity, and live claritin clear. now, we all know progressive offers 24/7 protection, but we also bundle outdoor vehicles with home and auto to help people save more! [ laughs ] ♪♪ [ humming ] [ door creaks ] oh. [ soft music playing ] what are you all doing in my daydream? it's better than that presentation. a lot better. you know, whether it's a fraction or a decimal, it's still fun, you know? trelegy for copd.

♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze drifting on by you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ it's a new dawn... ♪ if you've been taking copd sitting down, it's time to make a stand. start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function. it also helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. take a stand and start a new day with trelegy. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy. and save at trelegy.com. ♪ ♪ ♪

>> for his interrogation of brendan dassey, now seen by millions, tom fassbender has come under fire in court and online. >> this was seen by many as a false confession. do you see it as a false confession or a real confession? >> i feel it was a real

confession. >> are you trying to extract a false confession? >> absolutely not. >> fassbender denies is expressions of sympathy for dassey remaining below to. >> i legitimately was concerned for him. that wasn't staged. that wasn't a strategy. >> why do you think people took at the other way, the more sinister way? that you are taking advantage of him? >> it's easy to do that. it's a cynical approach, so to speak, watching tv, watching movies. how cops are depicted on movie, is trying to trick people into saying stuff. everything about the interviews with brandon were soft, comfortable. >> but comfortable might not be a word dassey supporters would use, especially given his age and intelligence level. >> what about his iq? when you watch, him you can tell he has a lower iq. >> [laughs] i don't assess iqs.

i -- >> could you tell he maybe wasn't like other boys his age? >> more socially, probably. i didn't want to cross the iq social line, but he could think. and he knew right from wrong. >> is it possible he's manipulated easily? >> it's possible. >> he sounded confused at times. >> quite possibly. >> he didn't know it was up and, down i don't know, just watching it. >> i don't know about that. my thought as he had 1 million things going on in his side at that time. >> fassbender resist charges he and his partner in appropriately planted ideas in dassey's had like in that exchange about the hood latch. >> what did he do under the hood, if that's what he did? >> what did brandon say? >> he agreed that steven avery had gone under. that >> you use the word agreed, so you brought it up first? >> yes, i believe. so >> that's one of the areas you came under fire for. >> yes.

>> you are planting things in his mind? >> yes, that's what they said. and there are instances that we did ask in specific about things, yes. and that can happen in an interview. >> can we take that as a reliable answer, given how it was fed to him? >> i would argue no and say based on the entirety of the interview, i would say, yes. >> as for that other moment that angered so many followers of the case -- >> all right. i'm going to come out and ask you, who shot her in the head? >> he did. >> any regrets about that, bringing it up yourselves? putting that in his head? >> there's always things you can improve on. there are instances because of brendan's personality that we had to talk to him about and ask more specifically certain questions, and that happens. >> what do you say to those people who made you part of a speck discussion about false

confessions, and who were yelling at their tvs because they didn't like the job you did? >> just that it's easy to archer quarterback, it's easy to second guess. that i, you know, that's partly why i'm here, to explain there was nothing nefarious done. >> but even fassbender wonders if everything dassey set in the confession was true. >> we didn't try to manipulate branded. we try to get out the truth. i don't believe it was a false confession. other parts of it he may have not done? i don't know. you know, i just don't know. >> in august of 2016, a federal judge weighed in with a bombshell, in response to a brief filed by dassey -- manitowoc 1--'s attorneys, the judge duffin ruled dassey's confession was involuntary.

with that, the judge overturned his conviction and ordered dassey to be released from prison. >> was that like for you, hearing that news? >> mixed emotions. i know we did everything above board that on magistrate rules, if it isn't fine in his opinion, which is all right, because that's the system. >> are you okay if he walks free? >> i'm not okay if the family is not okay. i believe brandon was involved in this, that he was, there and he was involved. >> wisconsin attorney general also believes brandon was involved in teresa's murder. he appealed the judges order for release, asking a full panel of federal judges to review the case. and september of 2017, that request was granted. the seventh circuit u.s. court of appeals heard arguments about whether dassey's confession was coerced. nine weeks later, the judge panel upheld the state courts

finding, that dassey's confession was voluntary, meaning the young men will remain in prison. the supreme court of climbed to review his case. brendan dassey's vowed to continue the fight for his freedom. >> coming up -- >> he told to watch dateline. >> in the steven avery case, how a six-year-old led to a brand-new attorney? >> i said that so minutes going to get stephen out of prison. >> when dateline continues. now, simparica trio simplifies protection. ticks and fleas? see ya! heartworm disease? no way! simparica trio is the first chewable that delivers all this protection. and simparica trio is demonstrated safe for puppies. it's simple: go with simparica trio. this drug class has been associated

with neurologic adverse reactions, including seizures; use with caution in dogs with a history of these disorders. protect him with all your heart. simparica trio. with less moderate-to-severe eczema why hide your skin if you can help heal your skin from within. with dupixent adults saw long-lasting, clearer skin and significantly less itch. don't use if you're allergic to dupixent. serious allergic reactions can occur including anaphylaxis, which is severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems, such as eye pain or vision changes, or a parasitic infection. if you take asthma medicines don't change or stop them without talking to your doctor. talk to your doctor about dupixent. ♪ ♪ ♪

>> >> steven avery and his supporters have been hoping for good news and they couldn't know it, yet but help was just around the corner. >> he's very gentle and very loving. >> sandy is avery's longtime friend and one-time fiancée. convinced of his innocence, she said she searched for years to find the right attorney to take on his complicated case. during a call from prison, a re-told her to watch dateline. >> he heard there was going to be this right in ferguson case on dateline, and he told me to watch it just to see the lawyer. >> that dateline program, from august 2011, told a story of ryan ferguson, a young man sitting in prison for a murder he said he didn't commit. attorney kathleen zellner was determined to get him out. >> nothing as riveting as this, when the trial has been lost,

everything's been lost, and you've got something. it's like the ultimate challenge, i think. >> i said, that's the woman that's going to get stephen out of prison! >> zellner specializes in wrongful conviction cases and says she is freed many defendants, including ryan ferguson. sandy contacted her, and she joined the case not long after making a murderer came out. we caught up with zellner at a correction no correctional institution when she paid a visit to a bring in 2016. >> million dollar question, do you think you have new evidence that could free steven avery? >> we do, yes. >> zellner invited dateline into this war room she created in her office outside of chicago. all dedicated to the avery case. >> do we know if that was tested? >> and she even showed us this rav4 rav4 she bought to get a better understanding of teresa's vehicle. then, in august of 2016, too much media fanfare, she filed a motion in manitowoc county

court seeking new testing of the evidence. >> we are going to find out one way or another was the evidence planted? >> kathleen zellner is known as an aggressive defense attorney. >> chief legal correspondent for msnbc. >> she is looking for new evidence to argue the entire case was done the wrong way. she's basically trying to put the state on trial. >> in her 45-page legal motion, zellner attacks law and for some, and tries to poke holes in the prosecution's case and raises new questions. >> she notes that teresa's cell phone pen dave cell phone tower 13 miles away later that day. suggesting maybe she left there alive. it also indications that maybe other people, not from law enforcement, entered the property during the investigation, raising the prospect of other potential suspects. >> and she's won an early round. in november, 2016, a judge granted her access to some of the evidence so her experts

could perform new forensic tests, including more advanced testing on avery's blood from the rav4. in june, 2017, zellner filed a motion requesting a new trial for avery. in a statement, she told dateline, we will be able to demonstrate exactly how the evidence was planted in the early part of the investigation. avery, she insists, was framed for a crime he did not commit. but in october, 2017, a wisconsin circuit court tonight that request. zellner petitioned the judge is ruling to the wisconsin court of appeals, and promised she is just beginning to fight. as for former prosecutor, ken kratz, and his new book, zellner dismisses kratz's claims about avery's treatment of women and interactions with teresa. saying, there was no proof mr. avery was becoming obsessed with ms. halbach. and rehashing a story about

inadmissible evidence seems poisonous pointless. zone or notes mr. kraft says no qualifications which would allow him to diagnosed mr. avery as a psychopath. mr. avery has never been diagnosed as a psychopath. kratz, who prosecuted both stephen avery and brendan dassey, says he's undaunted. >> are you afraid of kathleen zellner? >> now, i'm not involved in the case anymore. i shouldn't be afraid of anything. my involvement -- >> she could unravel your work, if what she's saying has some weight to it? you don't think she has a chance? >> i don't. >> if she so confident, why are you so confident? >> we spent 18 months putting this case together. it wasn't thrown together. it wasn't a bunch of keystone cops, it was done very professionally, very well. >> kratz does have personal regrets. in his book, he admits to past for scripture and drug abuse. it says he's ashamed he sent sexually suggestive text to a

domestic violence victim two years after avery's trial. a scandal which led to his resignation. he still takes issue with making a murderer, he says he's moving on with his life. >> i'm hoping this book will change the narrative. >> but with all the talk of guilt or innocence, trials or re-trials, kim petersen says the person being forgotten is her friend, teresa. >> she is the reason why we are even talking about, this and she just deserves to be remembered. >> i love hugs. >> for her memories, kim says she's go back to this grainy video diary teresa made three years before she died. it was played at avery's sentencing. >> i love taking pictures. i love holding a camera in my hand. >> it gives me the chills every time i hear it, because she talked about everything she loved. >> is there anything you would say to teresa right now, if she could hear you? >> just that you are still in

my heart, and i will never forget you. >> i just want to know whenever i do die, i just want people i love to know that whenever i die, that i was happy. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> that's all for this edition of dateline. i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. thank you for watching >> i'm craig melvin, and >> i'm craig i'm natalie melvin, and i'm morales. and this is natalie morales. and this is dateline. >> dateline. i was robbed of my sister. i had to grow up without one. in an instant, she was gone. and it changed everything. >> she dreamed of a career solving crimes but crime came for her first.

>>