tv Katy Tur Reports MSNBC June 1, 2021 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
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i'm jeff bennett coming to you live from tulsa, oklahoma. just a short time from now joe biden will be the first president to lead our nation in reckoning of what happened 100 years ago today right here where we are sitting. the tulsa race massacre had been largely and intentionally erased from the history books until recently, but not by those who survived the two days of unspeakable atrocities and lived to tell the world about the horror. >> that was one of the worst sights that i can ever remember. >> stays on my mind. has been on my mind all of these years. >> it was covered up and we didn't talk about it. >> in the early 1900s, greenwood was known as the black wall street until the evening of may 31st, 1921, when a white mob
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descended on greenwood shooting black people indiscriminately and burning thousands of homes and businesses along with churches and schools, and when the massacre ended 48 hours later, hundreds of survivors were rounded up at gunpoint and forced to march to camps where they were held for weeks. survivors recounted seeing bodies dumped into the arkansas river and mass graves. those ancestors are trying out, she says, never forget, remember me. sadly the survivors you saw in the piece have since passed and there are three known survivors still alive, including one 107 years old, with whom i had the privilege of speaking to after
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she spoke in front of congress. joining me here in tulsa is an nbc correspondent, tremaine lee, and we have a member of the centennial commission. you have been reporting on the story and here on the ground in tulsa for days, and potentially longer than that, and the latest aspect of your reporting has been talking to white tulsans. >> for far too long the burden of baring witness has fallen on the black community, and white folks have to address the past and the role their ancestors played in all this, and i spoke with the head of all souls church, and he talked about this
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idea of true reconciliation and also recognizing the truth of what happened here. let's take a listen. >> i think really what we are dealing with right now all across america and certainly within the congregation is that white people have to grapple with the long history of white supremacy and the ways in which we have all been it and are perpetuated in different ways in our lives, whether we know it or not, consciously or unconsciously, we continue to perpetuate white supremacy, and it's one thing to point our fingers at what happened 100 years ago, but it's another thing to change ourselves today. >> the reverend talking about white supremacy and the role of today's in tulsa, he lost
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kong tkpwrau tkpwupbts. >> i was reminded today about the notion of truth and reconciliation are insequential, and you have to start by telling the truth. are people telling the full truth of what happened 100 years ago? >> it is beginning. that commission issued a report in 2001, and it got international attention and became the impetus for reform curriculum, and i think reconciliation ultimately involves acknowledgment, apology and atonement. we are in the middle of the acknowledgment phase.
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there have been some important apologies. the mayor issued an apology just yesterday and it was on the front page of the paper today. atonement talks about reparations and how we repair the damage that was done. that's going to require a lot of soul searching and a lot of hard discussions. >> this on issue of reparations, as you well know, the three survivors between the ages of 100 and 107 years old, they and their representatives made the case that $30 million was raised and none of it was shared directly with the descendants that cannot put a dollar figure on the immense loss to their lives. >> it was created by an african-american state senator matthews, and the commission is an advisory council to him. i serve on the commission and we met and talked about what our goals would be. we want to build a history center, and we built it and it's
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opening down the street. we wanted to build up the community of greenwood for entrepreneurship and commerce going forward. we raised money from private donors and a lot of corporate and philanthropic, so while we support reparations, we think reparations is a bigger bundle of possibilities. no question, cash for descendants are morally justified, and there are other reparations needed as well. economics, employment, health care, across the board. >> if you are still with us, tremaine, what about that, when you talk to folks, descendants
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and every day tulsans, and it's not just the direct cash payments, it can take many forms? >> yeah, this is one of the points of contention that made folks in the community not just furious but also angry. this commission raised $30 million on the backs of the narrative of the actual economic disposition this community suffered and then you raise $30 million and not make any effort to give it to the three remaining survivors, folks are extremely upset about the idea of it. the idea of broader reparations, and we understand the government was complicit in the reparation of black people, and so the idea that there would be all this money raised and no real robust overture towards those survivors, and it's not just frustrating folks but they are angry about it, and in some ways from my reporting, this thing
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was doomed from the beginning, and many said there were not many credible messages on that board, and folks represent many interests, and folks i spoke to and especially those that put in an effort to repair all that is broken, and $30 million, many see that as salt in the wound. >> we will table this conversation, and we will talk about what is happening this afternoon. what does it mean to have an american president come here and to pay his respect to the survivors and honor those lost? >> i think it really elevates the importance of this story and the american narrative. in many ways what happened in tulsa in 1921 is emblematic of american history. we know about the so-called riots in 1919, more than two
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dozen race riots and we know about lynching, and so it's understanding the through line in history and that legacy is part of our present, george floyd, the other incidents we are aware of in the present. if we understood our history better we would understand why we are where we are today. >> when you talk about understanding our history, so much of the attention has focused on the ways in which greenwood was decimated by those angry white mobs, and that's important. i think it's also important to know what greenwood was before it was attacked. it was this self sustaining successful black enclave, and it was not the only one. oklahoma after the civil war was home to about 50 townships where black men and women came together and decided they would establish, occupy and govern successful towns. >> absolutely. part of the philosophy
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underlying this, is if we as black people can improve our ability to self govern, our ability to engage in commerce and demonstrate that to white people, then racism will abate. that sounds like a fans afull notion now. so even having proven ourselves as credible, we still have institutional racism. >> digging through the crates, and found the newspaper after the massacre and then the newspaper from yesterday, and two whites dead in race riot, and from today, mayor apologizes
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for massacre, the blood is still speaking. give us a sense of how far we have come. >> we have come a ways. we have a ways to go. i think it's the best way to describe it. dr. martin luther king says we must not lose infinite hope. i recognize our issues are more, and we have so much ground to cover but i want to give a nod to the progress that we have made, because i think that helps bring us all along in a inclusive and robust way. >> great to talk to you as always. >> thank you. >> we will bring you president biden's visit as he arrives here later this hour. in the meantime we will talk about a new effort by
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researchers and archaeologists to identify victims of this, and nbc's antonio hilton will have that story. of course when the president arrives here in greenwood to meet with survivors and families, we will carry that live. also ahead this hour, the only hope with prospects for bipartisanship looking bleak, one republican center has an invite to the white house tomorrow. later, four suspected members of the oath keepers militia indicted in the capitol hill riot. more charges on today's court appearance. first, the governor of texas issues a new threat to the democrats that blocked sweeping new voting restrictions. stay with us. in inflammatory conditions. because there are options. like an “unjection.” xeljanz. the first and only pill of its kind that treats moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, psoriatic arthritis, or moderate to severe ulcerative colitis
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out of a planned sunday night vote on sweeping new voting restrictions. the bill would halt drive-through and 24-hour voting and end voting on sunday mornings which democrats say is targeted at black voters specifically, and governor abbott has vowed to take up the bill at a special session but has yet to set a date for that. joining us now from dallas is nbc news correspondent, morgan chesky. if this a special session is there anything more texas democrats can do to stop the bill from advancing? >> reporter: that is a question the democrats are asking themselves right now. they know they bought a little bit of time with that historic walkout that took place over the weekend. that essentially nullified this bill for now, but texas governor, greg abbott, made it clear that this is an emergency item he wants to see passed and
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that's one of the reasons he wants to call forth this special session, and they are saying what happened is a last-ditch effort that making sure the quorum was not reached and the vote was not held, and they are hoping there could be a provision or two that might be up for debate in senate bill 7, however they say in its current form right now it simply is not open for debate whatsoever, and you mentioned the key points, and as for this special session, we don't know when it will be held. we know the democrats are calling on their federal counterparts. president biden and other top democrats basically saying we have done our part here in texas, and now please do yours
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by passing some sort of voting rights at the federal level that could ensure some protection for why democrats are looking for here in the state of texas. we did hear from texas' lieutenant and governor that did not blame the democrats for what they did to end this vote, so much for republicans pushing this issue so far back towards the end of the session. whenever this session is calling for, it will be interesting to see how both sides approach it with this historic measure, the walkout, and only one of four times in texas history that took place over the weekend. jeff? with us now is texas state lawmakers that represents dallas. thanks for being with us. help us understand why texas democrats are so opposed to the legislation. set the table for us. >> throughout the entire process we were left out of the
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conversation, and things were being added at the 11th hour. we heard time and time again from the secretary of state that -- and from the author of the bill, that our elections here in texas are safe and secure. we don't know what the problem is or what issue we are trying to solve. the more and more we ask for answers, we don't get any. really, both sides want to work on good policy, and we just have been left out of the conversation and divisive bills the entire session has been rammed down our throats by any means necessary. >> do you have any more tools in the procedural toolbox now,
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texas democrats, to stop this? what happens next? >> we can only delay the bill for so long, and we know the governor is going to call for a special session, because this was one of the emergency items, and so really, you know, democrats have done all that we can do. but, again, we can only delay it for so long, so we're calling on the president and democrats in the senate to pass the filibuster act and another act immediately before it's too late. >> biden has spoken about the bill and said democracy is in peril, and there's a sense of urgency he brings it to raw torically, at least, and you are
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saying the democrats in the senate do not have the same concern as the democrats in texas? >> we have seen other states that are passing these sweeping laws, taking us back to the jim crow era. we don't have the luxury here in texas of being in the majority, so we have concerns that if it does pass it will be too late. >> final question, because the argument from republicans is that texas state democrats are essentially ignoring their duty as elected officials by walking out of the sunday session. what is your response to that? >> we also have a duty to honor the legislative process, and part of that process is when policy is proposed it goes through the committee process and people are given as members
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of the committee to ask questions regarding their intent behind the bill, trying to figure out what problem they are trying to address and also the opportunity to the public to get public testimony and let us know how these policy changes will affect them and will affect other texans, and these provisions are added to a piece of legislation at the 11th hour on the 139th day of the 140th of our legislative session, and adding provisions that were not in either version of the house or senate, it's really going around the process. so when the process involves the communication from both sides and it involves getting feedback from the public, and when we go around that we are not really honoring the process. we're not doing our jobs. >> all right, texas state lawmaker, jessica gonzalez, appreciate your time this afternoon. still ahead the republican senator that has an invite to the white house tomorrow, and why she could be president
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biden's last hope for bipartisanship on infrastructure. four more suspected oath keepers indicted in the capitol riot. stay with us. introducing aleve x. it's fast, powerful long-lasting relief with a revolutionary, rollerball design. because with the right pain reliever... life opens up. aleve it, and see what's possible. wanna grab pizza? bad move, guys! get a freshly made footlong from subway® instead! like a classic italian b.m.t.® stacked with fresh veggies. there's a subway® three blocks from here! choose better, be better. and now save when you order in the app. subway®. eat fresh. visible is wireless that doesn't play games. no surprise fees, legit unlimited data for as little as $25 a month.
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we're back here live in tulsa as we wait on president biden's visit. you can see onlookers gathered behind me, and we saw the president walk off air force one after landing in oklahoma, and he will make his way to where i am seated, in the greenwood neighborhood, and he will meet with the survivors of the tulsa massacre survivors. several suspected members of the far-right militia group known as the oath keepers were charged with conspiracy in connection with the capitol riot. four suspects were indicted over the weekend. according to court documents three of these new suspects were part of a so-called stack of oath keepers that breached the capitol together. photos of that so-called stack, both on the capitol steps and inside the rotunda were
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referenced in an earlier affidavit. with us now is nbc news national security and intelligence correspondent, and some of the defendants on this case appeared in court today. what more can you tell us? >> good to be with you, jeff. these four defendants were added to the sprawling conspiracy indicted against now 16 members of the oath keepers. what prosecutors say in this indictment was these people planned well in advance, as far as november 9th, the leader of the oath keepers, a man that has not been charged was talking to the need to go to washington and prevent president trump from being displaced from office, according to the indictment. the news on today's hearing say they may offer plea deals in some of the defendants to get them to cooperate, because in a sprawling conspiracy case, jeff,
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you need more documents and other written evidence, and you would like to have witnesses to come into court to testify against some of the other defendants and that appears to be the prosecutor's strategy here. the overall backdrop, though, is of a an anti-government extremist group, the oath keepers, that was conspiring to commit violence in advance, and it raises questions about why the fbi did not detect that planning until it was far too late, jeff. >> yeah, they have indictments that detail the group's communication, and they talk about sacrificing themselves in this fight, and bombs and shooting that could use the insurrection act. the prosecutors seem to be building a growing conspiracy case that involve the oath keepers, and your reporting speaks to that, right?
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>> that's right. there was reporting -- journalism, months and years before about the oath keepers, and they recruited members of law enforcement and the military. one of the four defendants in court today, according to a defunct linkedin profile, he has been in security for years, and they know how to use weapons and tactical gear, and the head of the organization, again, not charged, and allegedly said in the indictment, we will defend the dually elected president, referring to president trump, and if you don't guys, you will be in a bloody, bloody, civil war. you can call it an insurrection or war or fight, and this was weeks before setting up what ultimately happened. >> thank you. president biden will host
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republican senator at the white house tomorrow, and pete buttigieg said republicans have until next monday to come up with a clear direction otherwise democrats have to move on without any gop votes, and both sides are miles apart. they can't even agree on still what infrastructure actually is. joining us is white house reporter, and punchbowl news founder and also a nbc news contributor. is this meeting tomorrow a hail mary or the culmination of weeks of back and forth between the republican and staff and president biden himself? >> it's not inking a deal, and i think it's the next step for the biden administration and senate republicans to try and find a way forward, as you said, to
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figure out if they can come together at all on even what infrastructure means. the biden administration is unwilling to just to let them go away. i think you see an urgency by the president himself that says he wants to get a deal, and i think he means that in reality. it's not just talking points that sound good for a democrat here. biden does want to work with republicans, but the timing is going to be so key here. if they can't come together in the next couple of days in the next congressional recess it's hard to see how much longer they can keep the bipartisan negotiations going on, and republicans aren't serious and are not going to come together on some of the issues and at the end of the day it's going to have to be a one-party vote in order to get something done on infrastructure. >> yeah, and anna, you are hearing what i am hearing, that president biden does want a bipartisan deal on this and he thinks infrastructure is the best way to do it.
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there are staffers of his that say we are not convinced the republicans are being honest, and for now president biden wants to see what can be done. can the republican get nine of her colleagues onboard, and even with the commission, they say they are for it and then are all of a sudden against it. >> i think it will be difficult when you look at the makeup of congress, as much as every single state and district has crumbling roads and districts in order to get a deal. i have a hard time seeing republicans wanting to give joe biden this kind of a win, and it would be a massive win if republicans and democrats could forge a deal here. we are pretty far away from that, and we have a very serious republican lawmaker that is wanting to create a deal and create some kind of space movement forward to show that republicans and democrats can work together.
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at the end of the day i think we are pretty far from any kind of a deal. >> i will ask you for what might be an unknowable question, and i have to say you always seem to be the best source on this infrastructure stuff and have a great sense of the details. the question is this. how much is president biden willing to concede to get a deal with republicans, assuming a deal with within reach? >> so the optimistic scenario that i have heard from people familiar with these discussions is that he doesn't really have to concede that much, because whatever does not get included in a bipartisan deal, they can still do through reconciliation and or they can still throw into other pieces of legislation. for example, if they can figure out how to pay for any of this, which anna points out, which is still the big hold up that they have not figured out yet, and they figure out a way to pay for a $1 trillion infrastructure bill, and that's roads and
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bridges and rail thrown in, and the white house can do that deal with republicans and still take the other trillion dollars they want for elder care and public housing and clean energy and they can still do that through reconciliation. i mean, there's again the optimistic scenario inside the white house that they can not lose on this, because whatever they do with republicans, it doesn't mean they are giving up on everything else. >> talk to us about the timing, because one of the reasons why secretary pete buttigieg and the biden administration set this deadline of june 7th is because they need to clear the decks if they are going to go anything with reconciliation, they have to do it next month before the congressional recess? >> right, and there's this transportation committee markup coming of the service transportation will, and that gives them a timeline to try and push to get some, quote, unquote, as they keep saying clear direction on where they are going on infrastructure by the time that bill comes up.
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from the beginning of this process, white house officials were very concerned about getting drawn into never-ending negotiations with republicans and mitch mcconnell, which is something they saw under obamacare. while they are not pushing the gas like they did in covid relief, they are certainly trying to keep the drum beat of momentum going, and that's why we see them put all these soft deadlines out, like significant process by memorial day or clear direction by june 7th as a way to keep the pressure on and moving, because they know time is of the essence, and this is their year and it's time to get whatever they want to get done legislatively done. >> yeah, and congress traditionally works best when they are given a deadline. great to see you both. coming up, we'll come back to our coverage here in tulsa with president biden expected to meet with survivors and families at any moment. up next, we'll have a look at the new efforts to identify
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the victims of the massacre beginning with an archeological dig with a potential mass gravesite. we'll be back in tulsa, oklahoma, after a quick break. heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue or light-headedness, don't wait to contact your doctor. because these symptoms could be signs of a serious condition like atrial fibrillation. which could make you about five times more likely to have a stroke. your symptoms could mean something serious, so this is no time to wait. talk to a doctor, by phone, online, or in-person.
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operating rooms stay clean is now helping the places you go every day too. seek a commitment to clean. look for the ecolab science certified seal. we're back here live in oklahoma as we await president-elect joe biden's arrival in tulsa's greenwood neighborhood. he will meet with the survivors and families of the tulsa massacre. we don't know how many people died or who they were. archaeologists and historians begin work today to answer those questions.
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escalations begin today in one of several mass grave sites identified. given the dimensions of the area, they believe there could be more than 30 unidentified victims buried there. joining us now is nbc news correspondent, antonia hilton, who is down the street actually at oak lawn cemetery, and we have the president of the action network, reverend sharpton. and i want to start with you, reverend al, because you are awaiting the arrival of president biden and have been talking to survivors and their families. what are they telling you right now? >> they are telling me it's great to finally get a presidential recognition, but
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they need to work in repairing the damage and invest in this community and these survivors went through generations where they did not enjoy the wealth that should have been passed down to them that was destroyed in the racist massacre, and i think it's great what president biden is doing today that has not been done before, but that does not fulfill what needs to be done. we need to repair the damage done. it's good to visit the damage, but you must repair the damage so don't come as a tourist, come as one that will invest in rebuilding and restoring those that were hurt 100 years ago and coming forward. >> reverend al, you, as i understand it, have an open line to president biden, and in your conversations with him does he fully understand that, does he grasp the need as it relates to the three living survivors he will meet today, does he
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understand why it is important to make sure the three of them are mate made whole? >> i think he does. a couple of us will talk to him after the speak, and i have not talked to him specifically about what he's going to say today, and i don't have a open line, but i think he understands it which is why he has come. if you look at the fact that, jeff, just a year ago, we were in the same city where another president, his predecessor had come to rally and it was one of the most divisive rally there was, and i came to the rally the day before, so when you look at 2020 tulsa, and you had a president coming here with divisiveness that ignored what happened in tulsa in 1921, and you look at 2021 with a president that is acknowledging
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it and there's a difference that a year makes, and we still must hold on to hold many accountable. >> antonia, you have been speaking with the team involved with this escalation. excavation. what are they telling you about the work they are starting today? >> reporter: it's an emotional and solemn start to the process. researchers and archaeologists and community members and descendants are here on the cemetery grounds. they have already brought out heavy machinery, a backhoe and will move the topsoil above coffins from the mass grave they already identified and then we will see archaeologists get into the graves with small hand tools
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and brushes and start the process of pulling up remains from the earth so that scientists and researchers can study them and hopefully identifying some of them and connect their stories, give us more information about what happened to the massacre, and they are going to be seeing if there's trauma signs on the remains, and then connecting with families. i want you to take a listen to a tulsa native and an archaeologists and she is an expert in the handling of artifacts. >> as a native tulsan and mom, and somebody somewhat connected to the history, it's kind of troubling at the same time as healing. we are disturbing sacred ground, but we are doing it in order to look and find, so i think it's both, like, humbling and also troubling that we are out here doing a lot of this, but that's
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why we are trying to do it as respectfully as possible and be sure we are giving the people respect, whoever we find here, that we are doing our best not only to recover all of these remains but to actually find loved ones connected to them. >> reporter: i frequently hear that sentiment from the researchers involved and from community members that this is somewhat emotional, and people are nervous about what they might discover. it's important to them because this is not just about archaeology and finding some additional pieces to put in a museum. this is a critical piece of the reconciliation and healing that has been talked about in this city all weekend long, jeff. >> yeah, it's a great point. so reverend turner, a question about why this work is just starting now. for decades -- we're hearing cheers here because i understand president biden's motorcade is arriving here. for decades there were decades of mass graves around tulsa, and
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it was not around until the late '90s, there was a tip line established and it identified the locations, so why has it taken so long for the excavation to begin? >> thanks for having me. unfortunately here in america and tulsa, especially, they have a problem acknowledging that the first time the bombs dropped were white people, and it was on black people, and they tried to hide the history and they tried to hide the evidence, and the mass graves is evidence of the 1921 tulsa massacre. >> reverend turner, any remains uncovered in the mass graves could be buried at alternative sites. you have offered your church. why sit important that remains that might be discovered would be re-entered elsewhere?
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>> well, it's important because these individuals who were killed were innocent and never got a proper burial, and the ash to ash and dust to dust is the way of that soul to go wherever it's supposed to go. those individuals who were killed never got that. it's important that they're re-interred in a proper, respectful manner. >> there was a red cross report that suggested that 300 people were killed in that massacre, but the official toll was just 36 people. 26 black folk and 10 white folks. what does it mean for the real death toll to be recognized a century later? >> it's very important. and we still believe there are
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more bodies out there. i've heard testimony from people who passed on, they were told that thousands of bodies were dumped in mass graves. but at least at the moment they're acknowledging it's in the hundreds. we must make sure everybody is found and they get the proper burial that they deserve. >> it's crucial to understanding the real history. thank you to you both. coming up, why one of the best tennis players in the world is stepping away from the sport. t
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or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. ♪ nothing is everything. ♪ now is the time to ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. a new cyber attack has targeted the largest meat supplier in the world. production was halted at several jbs meat supply plants in the u.s. and in australia. it's suspected to be from a russian criminal organization. and the number two tennis player in the world has withdrawn from the french open. 23-year-old naomi osaka said she's stepping away to focus on her mental health.
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she revealed she's been struggling with depression since 2018, and didn't want to become a distraction from the tournament. sarah harmon is with us, following the latest on the story. how has this personal revelation from osaka been received? >> reporter: this is having reverberations around the world. we've seen an outpouring of support from the american sports world, so many athletes have really praised her for coming forward. she's 23 years old, choosing to put her mental health first, at the top of her game. there are whispers in international tennis, people will say doing the press is part of the job. those voices are taking a backseat today to people saying
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osaka is doing what she needs to do. we heard from the president of the french tennis federation, he gave a very short, scripted statement to the media, saying he was sad and sorry. then, if you can believe the irony, he didn't take any questions. which is really what all of this was about to begin with, whether osaka would face the press after her matches. it doesn't seem like the tennis world has learned very much. but it is somewhat encouraging to see other athletes embrace her and say you did the right thing, putting your mental health first. >> absolutely. sarah harmon, thank you. and we're continuing to wait on president biden's arrival here in tulsa. we'll have his visit live when it happens.
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ayman mohyeldin picks up the coverage in the next hour. thanks for spending time with us here in tulsa. ♪ you come and go ♪ ♪ you come and go-o-o ♪ ♪ loving would be easy if your colors were like my dreams ♪ ♪ red, gold -- ♪ [ tires screech ] [ crickets chirping ] for those who were born to ride there's progressive. with 24/7 roadside assistance. ♪ karma-karma-karma-karma-karma chameleon... ♪
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