you couldn't do a normal bank transfer. that's all in this thursday night. the rachel maddow show starts right now. >> good evening. thank you, my friend. much appreciated. thanks for joining us this hour. president trump's postmaster general, louis dejoy, who has been trying to dismantle and sabotage the u.s. post office for more than a year now since he's been running it, today we learned he's under investigation for an allegedly criminal political donation scheme he ran out of his business for years. before he got the post office gig during the trump administration. we have reported on that alleged scheme extensively here on the show. in part because it is really quite oddly reminiscent of the thing that nixon's vice president spyreagnew did that

got him indicted and thrown out as president of the united states. we're going to speak with a reporter who helped break that story in just a few minutes. before we get to that big news i want to circle back to a story we covered a few months ago out of missouri. it was a story center on this republican elected official. her name is patricia durrgess. he went to medical school in the caribbean. when she came back she was not accepted to a medical residency program. the result of that is she's not a qualified -- in the state of missouri. that made it all the more surprising when she, not a doctor, publicly claimed to have made a medical discovery that

could literally change the course of world history and change tens of millions of lives. april of last year, this woman in missouri claimed that she had discovered the cure for covid-19. again, this is april last year we barely knew anything about covid-19. cases skyrocketing, thousands of americans dying. she said she had the cure. and she made the announcement of this momentous world changing news on her facebook page, because sure, that makes sense. she wrote an facebook, quote, this amazing treatment stands to provide a potential cure for covid-19 patients that is safe and natural. according to prosecutors, he she marketed her fake cure for covid not only on facebook but also local tv and radio shows in missouri. he hocked it during

informational seminars. she said it was a stem cell shot. she said it not only cured covid-19, it cured everything. it could cure touchdown area damage, kidney disease, copd. lyme disease, erectile dysfunction. sure, why not? she said it could all be cured all at once with her magic shot. according to prosecutors, the concoction that was being marketed by this woman from missouri, not only was it not a cure for any of those diseases, it also contained zero of the magic ingredients she said did the curing. the thing she was calling a stem cell shot contained zero stem cells. nevertheless, prosecutors say she got people to pay her $200,000 all in all for injections of her fake stem cell cure-all, which did not contain

stem cells and didn't cure anything. i keep saying according to prosecutors because of course she was indicted for selling her fake cure for covid-19. earlier this year she was hit with 20 felony charges not just for selling her fake cure for covid but also wire fraud and lying to investigators and multiple accounts of distributing opioids and other drugs without valid prescriptions. shocking. she has pled not guilty. but this is not just a medical scandal snake oil quackery story. this is a political story as well. because she is currently right now a sitting member of the missouri state legislature. she is a republican state representative. she was elected in november of last year. that's after she had sarted selling her fake covid cure, but before he was indicted for it. state representative patricia

derges was charged the speaker asked her to resign her seat. she took that request into careful k and said, no thank you, please. she emailed the house speaker to inform him she would not be resigning. she said, quote, my attorney is excellent and has this handled. turns out the situation was not handled. since we last checked into this story, federal prosecutors unveiled more charges against derges. this time they say she also frauded the local government out of $300,000 in covid relief funds. she misled officials into reimbursing her for giving covid tests to patients in missouri even though those patiented already paid her out of pocket. she has pled not guilty to those charges as well. but like i said, pra try shah

derges is still serving as a republican state legislator in the statehouse. republicans did remove her from her committee assignments. they also voted to expel her out of the house republican caucus. ie promise i'm not making this next part up. they also took away her office. they instead assigned her to work out of a windowless broom closet in the state capitol. i don't know what work she has to do since she's been stripped of her committee assignments and any caucus related duties but that's why her desk is now, in a broom closet. st. louis dispatch called up derges to confirm it wasn't a track cal joke, to confirm a serving lawmaker was doing official state business in a place where mops and brooms were stored. representative derges did

confirm, yes, i'm in the closet. i'm okay with that. i'll make it work because i'm here to support my district. fy have to live in a bathroom, i'm going to be here for them. i love to make lemonade out of lemons. also fake covid curious out of saltwater or whatever. obviously the idea with the broom closet assignment as her office assignment was to try to make it uncomfortable enough soing she would quit. she won't quit. republicans in the state legislature could start proceedings to you can pell her from the state legislature, but awe parentally they're not interested in doing that. they're not doing that. so she continues to serve. republicans did however try one more thing. she still has a seat on the house floor even though her office is in a broom closet. they moved her seat on the house floor so when she's on the floor she had the sit next to another republican state representative who had also been expelled from

the republican caucus, because the missouri house apparently has more than one of those folks at a time. this is the guy they put her next to on the floor. his name is rick rober. he first ran for the house last year. during the campaign, some truly haynes allegations surfaced concerning mr. rober. before the election, two of his adult children told the kansas city star their father abused them when he was kids. his son told the paper he was physically abusive to him. his daughter said he was sexually abusive when she was 9 years old. records showed he had been investigated for mistreating another child as well. he denied the allegations but it is ugly stuff. i'm not going tell you about the animal abuse allegations against him because i think too many of you will turn off the television when i say that. but again, this was all coming

up about him before the election. and a bipartisan group of lawmakers called on rick rober to drop off thing election in light of the seriousness of the allegations against him, but republican leader not sign on and he refused to drop off the race and he won that seat. and after he was elected by the statehouse in missouri, his kids wrote a letter to the republican speaker of the house, basically begging him not to seat them, not to let him take the seat in the house. they're bringing forward multiple first person claims he had physically and sexually abused multiple kids and it turns out there was corroborating record of him being reported to authorities for abusing kids multiple times. so the kids asked the house speaker, please do not seat him as a state legislator in our state. but that did not work. instead what they decided to do

is the missouri ethics committee in the house decided they would open an investigation into the allegations, allegations that one of thinker newest members had physically and sexually abused his kids. and sure enough, the house ethics committee found those disturbing allegations against rober were, quote, credible. the missouri house finally voted this april, just a few weeks ago, to finally kick him off the legislature. so now at least the alleged fake covid cure lady facing dozens of criminal federal charges, at least that republican state representative in missouri doesn't video to sit next to the accused pedophile republican state representative anymore. that little very special seating corner for republican state legislators, that's had a little bit of turnover. but here's a new one from just last week.

this is another republican state representative from missouri. he too was elected last year. his name is chad perkins, and before he was elected to be a republican state rep in missouri he was a police officer in that state. and the post dispatch has gotten their hands on an internal report which says chad perkins received a sexual favor from an intoxicated teenager. an intoxicated teenage girl while he was on duty as a police officer in 2015. representative perkins responded to the allegations. he says, hey, that teenage girl was 19 at the time, and the relationship was consensual. he said of his relationship, quote, nothing ever happened while i was on duty. but that internal police report contains text messages sent between perkens and the girl in question after perkins appears to have admitted to bragging to his friends about his

relationship are her. she said, i'm sure you left out the part while you were on duty and i was drunk. he responds to that, quote, i'm sorry. now it's a local police chief who asked the house to investigate this matter. maybe that's a nice change from prosecutors bringing dozens of felony charges. and another members kids coming to you to tell you he physically and sexually abused them. maybe it's a nice change for the third one to be a police chief asking to you handle matters. in time, in the words of the police chief's report, accepting favors from a teenage girl while on duty as a police officer. he both apparently denies it happened while he was on duty. claims it doesn'ter matter

because she was 19, but text messages included he basically admits to her, yeah, it was while he was on duty and she was drunk. underage for drinking, at least. missouri republicans, you guys okay? because those are all republican state representatives serving until the legislature this year. missouri republicans, really? you guys all right? look what's happening in the governor's office. want to tell you a little story about a man named kevin strickland in missouri. he was convicted of capitol murder, the shooting deaths of three people in 1978. he was convicted of an all-white jury, sentenced to life in prison with no possibility of parole. he was 18 years old. he's about to turn 62 years old right now. for the more than 40 years he has been hocked up in the state

of missouri, he has repeatedly and kinley said he did not commit the crime for which he was convicted. kansas city star found the case against him was profoundly thin. there are two other men who admitted to being at the scene of the crime. convicted. they both say kevin stickland has nothing to cowith the crime. they're out now. he's still in. at his trial, again, when he was 18 years old, there was one key witness, the only witness to the crime, and she said kevin strickland was one of the shooters. one of the investigators who worked on the trial said the whole case was her testimony, the case rose and fell on her testimony alone. in 2009, more than ten years ago now, she completely recanted her testimony. she told police, actually kevin strickland didn't do it.

she said he did because she had been pressured by police to wrongfully accuse him. she said she wanted nothing more now than to see him released from prison, because he didn't do it. it was her testimony that put him away. she said her testimony was wrong and it wasn't him. so it's kevin strickland who's the only one left behind bars for a crime he says he didn't commit. the star and only witness says he didn't commit it. the -- they say he didn't have anything to do with the crime. then just last month, the prosecutors who put him behind bars, they also agreed that that's right, and kevin strickland didn't do it. kind prosecutors in missouri now telling the court that this prosecutor's office made a profound error in this case, that kevin strickland actually did not commit those murders more than 40 years ago. the prosecutor's office is telling the court now he should

be immediately freed, that this was a wrongful prosecution. prosecutor's office now telling the court that keeping mr. strickland incarcerated serves no conceivably just purpose. the prosecutors saying that. he's been in court for more than 40 years for something he didn't do. that statement from the prosecutors was last month, it was on may 10th. still today, kevin strickland is in prison in missouri. his lawyers, once the prosecutors said, we did this wrong, it's not him. his lawyers petitioned the missouri supreme court to petition for his release. yesterday the missouri supreme court declined. that's a story in itself. there are other things that could happen within the missouri political system. if missouri republicans could just get it together, there's

ways to fix this. the missouri legislature, they actually got it together enough to pass a bill that would give prosecutors a direct mechanism to ask for a conviction to be thrown out. the governor of missouri, republican mike parson, has left that bill sitting unsigned on his desk for weeks now, despite the kevin strickland case and everything else. just today he issue ed pardons to 36 people today. kevin strickland not one of those people. even though the witness, the people who did commit the crime, and the prosecutors all say strickland is innocent. governor mike parson apparently does not feel motivated to do anything about that. so still tonight, kevin strickland is in prison after more than 40 years of what everyone agrees was him being wrongfully imprisoned for a crime he didn't commit. you might think -- there's nobody on the other side of this

case. you might think the republican governor of missouri could get around to doing something about that. i mean, missouri republicans, i don't know what's going on in that state right now, but from the governor on down they're wading chin deep in disaster and mess of their own making. there's so much cleanup to be done in missouri right now. so much work to do. but i'll tell you, republicans in the missouri house, in the legislature, do their credit, they have realized that they do have owe bunch of work to do and they've asked the governor to call the legislature back into session to keep working on missouri's problems. well, specifically to keep working on one thing. with all they've got on their plate right now, wall of the scandal and moral torment that missouri republicans are wading in right now, there is only one thing they want to work on right now, and that is they want a special session of the legislature so they can pass a

bill to make voting harder in missouri. they want to rescind voting rights in the state. missouri republicans have asked the governor to have a session right away so they can work on a voting will like the ones pass in the other states. with everything going on there in this state this is their priority. and i know republicans are working on bills like this everywhere they're in control, but just look what's going on in the state of missouri among republicans. oh, my god, do they have other things to worry about right now. but apparently none of this is pressing to them at all. the only thing they want to work on is making it harder to vote. so, i mean, listen, i feel like i have had to get this off my chest for a while now, so i'm going to say it. there's two tracks the 2020 election fraud fantasy is playing out. one of them is completely ridiculous.

it's science fiction fantasy. the first track is in trump land. it's this idea that trump secretly won re-election in 2020, he's actually the real president. joe biden is a fraud who appears to be in the white house, but he really want elected so he shouldn't be there. after trump national security adviser mike flynn and a becostumed trump lawyer sidney powell went to a qanon rally and said trump was elected and should be reinstated this summer and flynn said we should have a military coup -- after that happened this weekend, "the new york times" trump whisper per reporter maggie haberman reported this trump believes it that, trump is telling people he'll be reinstated by august this summer. after that reporting from haberman at the "times," a

pro-trump columnist confirmed the reporting saying trump believes he's going to be reinstated. he's also telling everyone republican senators who lost in november, they'll be reinstated, too. martha mcsally in arizona and david purdue in georgia, they'll get their senate seats backen just as soon as the whole election is thrown out and he's back in power and all the republicans get unousted "the washington post" confirming this as well that trump insists he's going to be reinstate as president. it's insane. but it's also working for them right now, working among trump supporters and among republicans. most of whom do now believe that the 2020 election wasn't real. it was fraudulent and trump was actually re-elected, even though joe biden's in the white house. it is objectively nuts, but it is real must have to them, because they prefer that to reality, and importantly because

trump keeps saying it's real. and because republicans in states from arizona to georgia to wisconsin and beyond keep backing them up, saying there was something wrong with the election in the state, something that needs to be recounted or audited or investigated. and as nuts as it is it is the agreed upon reality for trump supporters from coast the coast now. we're about to enter into a particular will i volatile time because trump is going to give a speech tomorrow. in a fundraising email about that speech, he is billing it as a presidential address because he is pretending to still be president. he sent out fundraising texts today, calling that speech an official presidential speech as if he is still president. next week in wisconsin, the pillow company ceo mike lindell is hosting another of these trump is the real president convention things.

the one he's hosting in wisconsin started off with this and then tuesday it changed. they're billing him as, quote, the real president. our real president. this is one of the two tracks on the which the trump 2020 election fantasy is playing out. it is absolutely ridiculous. there's no provision in our country for a -- then on that same day, armed and violent trump supporters tried to force this stopping of the counting of the electoral results in congress on january 6th. we saw what they were willing to do to make it not so that trump won the election. but trump lost and biden won and biden really is president. at the same time that biden is

president, though, we are in this unprecedented situation where there really is a former president out there earnestly pretending that he is still the rightful president, telling that to everyone who will listen to him and even telling it to those who don't want to listen to him anymore. he's doing right wing radio shows where he said about biden, how do you govern when you lost? he has got people to cast doubt on elections in arizona andg and wisconsin. he's telling people whooes the rightful president, he'll be reinstated. he's about to start speeches and rallies to that effect. my question to you is this -- think about this in a quiet moment. what is the end game? where does that go? what does that spark among his followers? i mean the way that first track

of the trump republican election fraud fantasy is playing out in trump land it is as ridiculous as it is dangerous. seriously for the foreseeable future there is in scenario in which republican trump supporters are going to accept results if that election doesn't produce the results they are demanding. that damage is done. republicans aren't just against democrats, they're against democracy. significant numbers if not majorities of republican voters will denounce and disbelieve the results of elections. they'll treat elections as crime scenes and hoaxes unless they win for the foreseeable future. that i think is baked in already. that's a crisis for our country. beyond that, though i think it's also worthying about what the logical next steps rm for our fellow american who is truly believe this nonsense, who really take it into their hearts and believe that trump is still the rightful president, that

joe biden is an imposter president in the white house who's somehow stolen power and taken over the u.s. government illegally. trump wants to be reinstated as president. he thinks he can be. he will tell his supporters they must demand that, they must fight for that. how will they try to do that? what exactly do we expect them to do? what wouldn't they do? what does this lead to when a major political party starts indulging this stuff. it doesn't end in let's have a better get out the vote effort in 2022. doesn't end up in how do we up our outreach to latino voters? this doesn't end -- not when you're telling people there's a tyrant who lost who's claiming to be president, and he's not and the former leader must be reinstated by the people. that is something that doesn't

end in a political place. that is a road that ends in a very bad place, and we are way down that road already. and i'm not trying to be scary about this, but i find the place we are in here to be scary. that's track one. for the trump republican election fraud fantasy about 2020. this is a second track, though, on which that fantasy is also playing out, and that's the one you can see track its way through the considerable mud that's all over the floor of, for example, the republican-led missouri state legislature with all its problems, the one thing they want to work on. if trump's going to raise doubts all over the country about how elections are run and votes are counted then republicans can use that as an excuse to not just fantasize great excuses, but they can use that as pretext to pass real laws to make voting

hard. to make voting as hard as possible, to make sure small "d" democrats have as many hurdles thrown as possible into their path on the way to the voting booth. and it does not look like there's going to be federal cavalry riding to the rescue, not unless joe manchin changes his mind on voting rights and maybe not even then. but in the absence of something like the for the people act passing into law -- it would protect voting rights in every state nationwide. in the absence of that passing, senator manchin, the fight to protect the right to vote, it comes from this crazy place that has also led trump to pretend to be the shadow president. but it has led to concrete action in state after state. and the fight to preserve the right to vote in the absence of any federal help, it's happening

right now state to state, law by law, democrats fighting republicans over the stuff in the state legislatures and if they can't stop and it those things pass into law, the fight moves to the courts. state by state, all over the country. that's all we've got for voting rights. track one bringings the country to the brink of madnessing but track two in the states brings us to what is now a fully joined, full-time, urgent state by state fight for democratic rights. it's just as insane. that story's next. ♪ ♪ ♪ common love isn't for us ♪ ♪ we created something phenomenal ♪ ♪ don't you agree? ♪ ♪ don't you agree? ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ow! ♪ we've got 'em on the ropes. the billionaires buying elections.

the corporate special interests poisoning campaigns with dark money, frantic to preserve big-money politics as usual. because the for the people act is on the verge of becoming law. reining in corporate lobbyists, finally banning dark money, and protecting our freedom to vote. billionaires and special interests, your day is nearly done. because it's time for the people to win. [ footsteps]

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after the 2020 election, the first republican control state to pass a big voter suppression law was iowa. they did theirs on march 8th. the next day, march 9th, a lawsuit was filed against that

anti-voting rights bill with mark elias and his organization. after iowa there was georgia. march 25th, georgia's republican governor signed into law his state's bill, signed it in a room with six other white men standing by while they all stood underneath the painting of a slave plantation. very subtle. that same day, georgia got itself sued with the help of democratic lawyer mark elias. then it was florida. florida's governor signed his bill live on fox news. also very subtle. florida soon found itself sued over that law. also, again, with the help of democratic lawyer mark elias. over and over again in all those states and montana and recently in arkansas, republicans expeditiously -- iowa just as

expeditious pseudothem for it. mark elias is obviously on it. but he's sounding a public alarm saying lawyers alone and these lawsuits alone are not going to solve this problem. joining us now to tell us why is mark elias. >> thanks for having me, rachel. >> i think a lot of people look at your track record over the course of your career, because particularly in the last year, and they feel confident knowing you are fighting these laws and that you are bringing these lawsuits and they have a lot of faith in your ability to bat down some of the worst of this stuff. why are you trying to signal to people these lawsuits and other good lawyers like yourself, it's not enough? >> well, really for two reasons. first is that it's not realistic to assume that every provision of every bad law is going to get struck down by a court. we won more than we lost in 2019

and 2020. we did better than that in the post election, but you can't assume that when state after state after state throws the kitchen sink at voters and makes restricting voting rights their top priority, that the courts are going to be will to bat them all back. but the second reason goes frankly to the point you made in your destruction, and it's so important, which is that we have a culture problem in the republican party, which is that right now, rather than solving the problems of the citizenry, of a reemerging economy, they are using their precious time in state legislature after state legislature to pass voting restriction laws targeting black, brown, and young voters. if that doesn't shift, we win lawsuits and they pass new laws. at some point, this is only going to change if the republican party is able to

change, and right now that doesn't look likely. >> what do you think is both doable and the best case scenario for trying to turn that ship around? obviously you wish you could turn peep's hearts, make them see a different way. it's hard to do that in short order. i know you have been a vocal impassionate supporter for the "for the people" act in the senate. what is best hope that you think is out there in terms of trying to turn this around? >> i view my role to buy time for democracy. if we can buy time by fighting off the worst of these provisions and give the political process an opportunity to rationalize itself, have congress pass the "for the people" act, that's great. if we can buy time for our

democracy and maybe have some shift in the republican party that it stops viewing people voting as an excess terrible threat to the party, rather they view all americans as a goal we aspire to, maybe we succeed. i'm not optimistic. all i can do is protect democracy by showing up in kroops around america and tell judges it's not right, it's not fair, it's not constitutional to target black, brown, and young voter. >> let me ask you about another piece of that to moved into public consciousness, from an object that was public interest and fun, because it was so ridiculous, these post election audits or recounts, the third-party interventions where partisan groups and inexperienced uncertified groups

are being given access to voting machines and ballots, in order to, it seems plainly, to cast doubt on election results and make partisans feel like the results they would have wanted could have been the real results of the election if not for magic pick si dust sprinkled there. i'm starting to see those efforts in a darker light than i officially did, because i do think they're having a desired effect. is there a legal case to be made violations of state law, federal law, in terms of handing and voting machinery in terms of the way the audits and recounts are being handled? >> i think you're entirely right. i have been trying to scream about in as best i can at the top of my lungs. the former soviet dissident wrote in i think 1971 that in the former soviet union, the lie had becomes not just a moral category, but of the state. the big lie has moved from a

political category, something trump and his allies were saying for political purposes and it's turning into a pillar of the state, part of state policy, and that's really dangerous. and one of the ways it's doing it is through those audits because it's giving the veneer of officialness. they're done through state legislatures, state officials, and it is allowing the big lie to have that imprimatur of the state. when they do these processes -- these are not recounts. i have been involved many more state recounts more than any person live or dead, and i can tell you these are not genuine audits or recounts. what is happening, they're spoiling the ballots, ruining the equipment. literally the state of arizona is going to have to throw away voting machines based on this. do i think it violates federal law? yeah, i do, because the law says

they should be kept for 22 months after the election, and these have been tainted. do i think it violates state law? yeah, it does. i wish judges would view this with the seriousness of democracy being a threat rather than, if they humor these crazy people they'll go away. because we know when you humor these crazy people, they don't go away. they just keep repeating and making worse. >> mark elias, democratic voting rights attorney. mark, i know you're incredibly busies. this can for taking time to be with us tonight. >> thank you, rachel. much more to come. stay with us.

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several of your top executives for contributing to trump's campaign by bonusing or rewarding them. >> that's an outrageous claim, sir, and i resent it.

>> i'm just asking a question. >> the answer is no. >> so you did not bonus or reward any of your executives -- >> no. >> anyone that you solicited for contribution to the trump campaign? >> no, sir. >> so all of our -- >> i'm fully aware of legal campaign contributions. >> well, what if your -- >> i resent the assertion. what are you accusing me of. >> >> i resent the assertion. what are you accusing me of? that indignant man is louis dejoy. since the trump administration he has been in charge of the post office. in that job he has been working hard as he can to screw up the u.s. post office. what he was indignant about is an allegation that he had run an illegal campaign donation scheme where his employees made political doe neighs in their own name buck dejoy basically reimbursed them with money through his own company. if that happened, that's illegal.

ceos have gone to prison for schemes like that. last year "the washington post" reported for more than a decade, over 100 individuals at louis dejoy's company contributed over $1 million to republican candidates on dejoy's behalf. many of those seam employees had previously never donated and didn't again after leaving his company. employees recall feeling pressured to donate in order to please the boss. the director of human resources told "the washington post" quote, he asked employees for money. an s.e.c. lawyer called it a run of the mill, but very illegal donor scheme. another, quote, it's rare to see it that blatant. louis dejoy denied doing anything improper, but fast forward to today that his political fundraising and the remarkable number of his employees who seemed to have helped with that, that is now the subject of a fbi

investigation. according to the post, quote, fbi agents interviewed current and former employees of dejoy and the business asking about contributions and activities. prosecutors also signalled a subpoena to dejoy himself. a spokesman confirmed the existence of the investigation but insists dejoy did nothing wrong. he's still running the u.s. postal service now. the reporter who broke the news today joins us next. stay with us. ay with us with relapsing forms of ms... there's a lot to deal with. not just unpredictable relapses. all these other things too. it can all add up. kesimpta is a once-monthly at-home injection... that may help you put these rms challenges in their place. kesimpta was proven superior at reducing the rate of relapses, active lesions,

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today "the washington post" was the first to break to news the postmaster general of the united states is under fbi investigation. louis dejoy is the man who took a wrecking ball to the u.s. post office in the run up to last fall's presidential election. he's working now to slow down the mail even further. the fbi is reportedly investigating what the post described as a fairly blatant alleged scheme by dejoy to funnel doe neighs to

politicians. joining us, the reporter who broke the news today. thanks for being here. congratulations on the scoop. >> thanks for having me. >> do we know when this investigation began? >> we don't know exactly when it began. i sort of suspect it began after my colleagues back in september reported on this possible scheme that louis dejoy was involved in, essentially reimbursing his employees for political donations. at least that's what a couple of them alleged to us. what happens a lot of times is the justice department seized public reporting of a straw donor scheme. we have seen this in many other cases, say, we do want to look at this. but we do know in the last couple of weeks the fbi wanted to take this thing over. they wanted to talk to witnesses in the world who could tell their friends or reporters what happened, and that led to dejoy

finding out, dejoy himself was subpoenaed, we reported and that led to us reporting. >> do we know if mr. dejoy is cooperating with the investigation? >> he says that he is. we know he was served with a subpoena and he'll have now some time to turn over documents or not. he insists he didn't knowingly doo anything wrong. some of the conduct is from 2000 to 2014, which might be past the statute of limitations in a straw donor case. obviously the fbi wouldn't investigate if they thought there wasn't any way they could bring charges but short answer, louis dejoy signals he's going to do that and signalled he believes he's done nothing wrong. >> interesting point about the statute of limitations and how long he did this, if he did carry out a scheme, how long it

was going for. one of the things "the post" reported extensively was how much money dejoy was able to funnel to donald trump in terms of donations. is there any evidence that those dnations to trump in particular might be under investigation? obviously some of those depending on when they were might be a solution to any statute of limitation problems for earlier donations. >> right, so the campaign legal center has done some of their own investigation on this, and they've found that kind of the same patterns that occurred between 2000 and 2014, which we identified, which are employees donating to the same person in the same amount on the same day, those patterns continued into the trump era, when -- the trump running for office era/in office era when dejoy as you on the board for this company he had run, retired and served on the

board. they found employees' donations would match up to donations made by dejoy family members. there's certainly threads they're likely to pull on. it remains to be seen what dejoy's role in all that is. what we had back in september is actual former employees saying, hey, this is how it happened. we were reimbursed for donations. that's clear as day for the fbi women don't have that strong evidence yet coming into the trump era, but we have the same kind of suspicious patterns. >> covering the justice department for "the washington post." thanks for your time and congratulations on breaking this story. it's a remarkable thing. thanks. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. stay with us. right back stay with us ♪ hey hey hey.

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all right, that is going to do it for us tonight. happy to have you here this friday eve. i'll see you again tomorrow when it is actually friday. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donlt. >> good evening. i have a little quiz for you. play along with me on this. let's say you are in charge of locating nuclear power plants. like, it's your job. you have to do it. you have to pick a spot in the united states of america, okay? let's sayou