end up being the achilles heel for cryptocurrency. >> that's michigan point. you couldn't make normal bank transfers for this kind of thing. so someone is gonna crack down on this. nicole perlroth, thanks for joining us tonight. that isgoing. nicole perlroth, thank you so much for joining us. the rachel maddow starts right now. >> thank you, my frent. president trump's postmaster general, louis dejoy, who has been trying to dismantle and sabotage the u.s. post office for more than a year now, since he has been running it, today we learned that louis dejoy is under fbi investigation for an allegedly criminal political donation scheme that he ran out of his business for years before he got the post office gig during the trump administration. we have reported on that alleged scheme extensively here on the show, in part because it is

really quite oddly reminiscent of the thing that nixon's vice president spiro agnew did, which got him indicted and thrown out of office as vice president of the united states. louis dejoy is still postmaster general today, but today we did learn he is under criminal investigation. we'll speak with a reporter who helped break that story in just a few minutes. before we get to that big news tonight, i want to take a second to circle back to update you on a story that we first covered a few months ago, a story out of the great state of missouri. and it was a story centered on this republican elected official. her name is patricia durgess. she went to medical school in the caribbean. when she came back to the united states in the united states after she graduated from that school, she was not accepted to a medical residency program, so the consequence of that is that she's not a licensed physician in the state of missouri. she can't be. she doesn't qualify because she didn't get into a residency program.

that just made it all the more surprising when she, not a doctor, publicly claimed to make a medical discovery that could literally change the course of world history and save tens of millions of lives. it was april of last year, this woman in missouri, patricia durgess claimed that she had discovered the cure for covid-19. this was april last year. we hardly knew anything about covid-19. but she said she had the cure. and she made this announcement of this mmentous world-changing news on her facebook page, because, sure, that makes sense. she wrote on facebook, quote, this amazing treatment stands to provide a potential cure for covid-19 patients that is safe and natural. according to prosecutors, patricia durgess marketed her fake cure for covid not only on

facebook, but on local tv shows and radio shows in missouri. she hawked it during informational seminars that she conducted. she described it as a, quote, stem cell shot. she said it cured not only covid-19, she said it also basically cured everything. it could cure tissue damage, kidney disease, copd, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, lime disease she said it could cure, erectile dysfunction. sure, why not. she said it could all be cured all at once with her magic shot. according to prosecutors, the concoction that was being marketed by this woman from missouri not only was it not a cure for any of those diseases, it also contained zero of the magic ingredients she said did the curing. this thing she was calling a stem cell shot in fact contained zero stem cellscells. nevertheless, prosecutors say she got people to pay her

$200,000 all in all for injections of her fake stem cell cure-all which did not contain any stem cells and did not cure anything. and i keep saying, according to prosecutors, according to prosecutors, because patricia derges was indicted for selling her fake cure for covid-19. earlier this year, she was hit with 20 felony charges, not just for selling her fake cure for covid, but also for wire fraud and lying to investigators. also, multiple counts of allegedly distributing opioids and other drugs without valid prescriptions. shocking. she has pled not guilty, but this is not just a medical scandal/snake oil quackery story. this is a political story, as well. because patricia derges is currently right now a sitting member of the missouri state legislature. she is a republican state representative. she was elected in november of last year. that's after she had started selling her fake covid cure and

indicted for it and state representative parishy derges was first federally charged earlier this year. the house speaker in missouri asked her to redesign her seat. patricia derges took that request into careful consideration and said, no, thank you, please. she emailed the house speaker to say she would not be resigning. in that email she said, my attorney is excellent and has this handled. turns out the situation was not handled. since we last checked in on this story, federal prosecutors have unveiled more charges against patricia derges. this time in a superseding indictment, they said she also defrauded the local government out of $300,000 in covid relief funds. prosecutors say she misled county officials into reimbursing her for giving covid tests to patients in missouri, even though those patients had already paid her for those tests

out of pocket. she has pled not guilty to those charges, as well. but like i said, patricia derges is still serving as a republican state legislators in the missouri state house. republicans did remove her from all of her committee assignments. they also voted to expel her out of the house republican caucus. and i promise i am not making this next part up. missouri republicans also took away her office. they, instead, assigned patricia derges to work out of a windowless broom closet in the state capitol. actually don't know what work she has to do, since she's been stripped of all of her committee assignments and any caucus-related duties, but that's where her desk is now. it's in a broom closet. "st. louis post-dispatch" called up patricia derges, i think to confirm that this wasn't some sort of practical joke. confirming that a real-life

official state lawmaker was doing official state business in a place where mops and brooms were stored. patricia derges did confirm the truth of that. yes, i'm in a closet. i'll make it work because i'm here to support my district. if i have to live in a bathroom, i'm going to be here for them. i love to make lemonade out of lemons. lemonade out of lemons. also fake covid cures out of like saltwater or whatever. obviously, the idea with the broom closet assignment as her office assignment was to try to make it uncomfortable enough for her to come to work. that she would eventually just quit. she won't quit. republicans in the state legislature could start proceedings to expel her from the missouri state legislature, but apparently they are not interested in doing that. they're not doing that. so she continues to serve. republicans did, however, try one more thing. she still has a seat on the house floor, even though her

office is in a broom closet. that he moved her seat on the house floor so that when she's on the floor, she had to sit next to another republican state representative who had also been expelled from the republican caucus, because the missouri house apparently has more than one of those folks at a time. this is the guy they put her next to on the house floor. his namerober. he first ran for the missouri house as a republican last year. and during the campaign, some truly heinous allegations surfaced, concerning mr. rober. before the election, two of his adult children told "the kansas city star" that their father had booud them when they were young kids. mr. rober son told the paper that when he was young, his father was physically abusive towards him. his daughter said he was sexually abusive to her when she was just 9 years old. "the kansas city star" dug up state records showing that rober had been investigated for sexually mistreating another one of his children, as well. he has denied the allegations, but it is very ugly stuff.

i'm not even going to tell you about the animal abuse allegations against him, because i think too many of you will turn off the television when i say that. but, again, this was all coming out about him before the election. and a bipartisan group of lawmakers called on rick roeber to drop out of that election, but republican leaders in the state of missouri did not sign on to that call, and he refused to drop out of the race and he won that seat. and after he was elected to the state house in missouri, his kids wrote a letter to the republican speaker of the missouri house, basically begging him to not seat him. to not let their father take his seat in the missouri house. again, they were bringing forward multiple first-person claims that he had physically and sexually abused multiple kids. and it turns out there was corroborating record of him being reported to authorities for abusing kids multiple times, dating back to the early '90s. so the kids asked the republican

house speaker, please, do not seat him as a state legislature in our state. but that did not work. instead, what they decided to do is the missouri ethics committee in the house decided they would open an investigation into the allegations. the allegations that one of their newest members had physically and sexually abused his kids. and sure enough, the house ethics committee found in their investigation that those disturbing allegations against representative roeber were, quote, credible. the missouri house finally voted this april, just a few weeks ago, to finally kick him out of the legislature. so now at least the alleged fake covid cure lady facing dozens of federal criminal charges, at least that republican state representative in missouri doesn't have to sit next to the accused pedophile republican state representative anymore. that little very special seating corner for missouri republican

state legislatures that's had a little bit of a turnover, at least. but oh, look, here's a new one from just last week. this is another republican state representative from missouri -- all of these people serving in the same house at the same time. he, too, was elected last year. his name is chad perkins and before he was elected to be a republican state rep in missouri, he was a police officer in that state. and the "post-dispatch" has gotten their hands on an internal report from his time as a police officer, that says that representative chad perkins received a, quote, sexual favor from an intoxicated teenager. an intoxicated teenage girl while he was on duty as a police officer in 2015. representative perkins has responded to the allegations. he says, hey, that teenage girl was 19 at the time and the relationship was consensual. he said, of his relationship with the girl, nothing ever happened while i was on duty. but that internal police report includes text messages that were allegedly sent between chad

perkins and the girl in question after perkins appears to have admitted bragging to one of his friends about his, quote, relationship with her. the girl according to this internal report writes to perkins, quote, i'm sure you left out the part where you were on duty and i was drunk. he responds to that, quote, i'm sorry. now it's a local police chief who has asked the republican speaker of the missouri house to investigate this matter. and, you know, maybe that's a nice change from the federal prosecutors bringing dozens of felony charges against one of your members and another of your members having his kids come to you to tell you that he physically and sexually abused them. maybe it's a nice change of pace for this third one to be just a police chief asking you to please handle these allegations against yet another one of your members in this same session. this time, in the words of the police chief's report, quote,

accepting sexual favors from a teenage girl while on duty as a police officer. he both, apparently denies that it happened while he was on duty, claims it doesn't matter because she was 19, but text messages included in an internal report show that he basically admits to her that, yeah, it was while he was on duty and she was drunk. underage. for drinking, at least. missouri republicans, you guys okay? because those are all republican state representatives serving in the state legislature this year. all of them. missouri republicans, you guys all right? because also look what's happening right now in the governor's office. i want to tell you a little bit of a story about a man named kevin strictland. he was convicted by an all-white jury, sentenced to life in prison with no possibility parole for 50 years.

kevin strictland was 18 years when he was first arrested in conjunction with that case. he's about to turn 62 years old right now. for the more than 40 years that he has been locked up in the state of missouri, kevin strictland has repeatedly and consistently insisted he did not commit the crime for which he was convicted. "kansas city star" did an in-depth investigation into his case and found that the case against him was profoundly thin. there are two other men who admitted to being at the scene of the crime that night. they were both criminally convicted for their role in the shooting. they both say that kevin strictland had nothing to do with that crime. they're both out of prison now. he's still in. again, more than 40 years he's been in prison for this. at his trial, when he was 18 years old, there was one key witness, the only witness to the crime, and she said kevin strictland was one of the shooters. one of the investigators who worked on that trial said the whole case was her testimony. the case rose and fell on her testimony alone.

well, in 2009, more than ten years ago now, she completely recanted her testimony. she told police, actually, kevin strictland didn't do it. she said he did because she had been pressured by police to say that he did. she wanted nothing more to see him released from police. she said her testimony was wrong and it wasn't him. so it's kevin strictland is the only one left behind bars for a crime he says he didn't commit, the star and only witness to the crime says he didn't commit it, the guys who actually did participate in the crime admit that and were convicted of it. they say he didn't have anything to do with the crime. and then, just last month -- this is remarkable -- the prosecutors who put him behind bars, they also agreed that actually, that's right, and kevin strictland didn't do it. county prosecutors in missouri now telling the court that that prosecutor's office made a profound error in this case that

kevin strictland actually did not commit those murders more than 40 years ago. the prosecutor's office is telling the court now that he should be immediately freed. that this was a wrongful prosecution. the prosecutor's office. now telling the court that keeping mr. strictland incarcerated, quote, serves no conceivably just purpose. the prosecutors saying that. they're telling the court they screwed up. he's been in jail for more than 40 years for something he did not do. he must be released. that statement from the prosecutors was last month, was on may 190. still, though, today, almost a month later, kevin strictland is in prison still, in missouri. his lawyers, once the prosecutors said we did this wrong, it's not him, his lawyers petitioned the missouri supreme court asking them to authorize his release. yesterday, the missouri supreme court declined to hear the case. they did not hear a reason why. okay, that's a story in itself.

but there are other things that could happen here within the missouri political system. if missouri republicans could just get it together, there's ways to fix this. the missouri legislature, despite the incredibly toxic chaos going on over there, they actually got it together enough to pass a bill that would give prosecutors a direct mechanism to ask for a conviction to be thrown out. the governor of missouri, republican mike carson has just left that bill sitting unsigned on his desk for weeks now. despite the kevin strictland case and everything else. just today, governor mike parson issued a whole bunch of pardons absolving people of crimes. kevin strictland not one of those people even though the witness, the people who did commit the crime and the prosecutors all say strictland is innocent. governor mike parson, apparently, does not feel motivated to do anything about that. and so still tonight, kevin strictland is in prison, after more than 40 years of what

everyone agrees was him being wrongfully imprisoned for a crime he didn't commit. you might think -- i mean, there's nobody on the other side of this case. you might think the republican governor in missouri could get around to doing something about that. i mean, missouri republicans -- i don't know what's going on in that state right now, but from the governor on down, they are wading chin-deep right now in just disaster and mess of their own making. there's so much cleanup to be done in missouri right now. so much work to do. but, i'll tell you, republicans in the missouri house, in the legislature, to their credit, they have realized that they do have a bunch of work to do and they have asked the governor to call the legislature back into special session to keep working on missouri's problems. well, specifically to keep working on one thing. with all they've got on their plate right now, with all of the scandal and sort of moral torment that missouri republicans are sort of wading

in right now, there is only one thing they want to work on right now. and that is that they want a special session of the legislature, specifically so they can pass a bill to make voting harder in missouri. they want to rescind voting rights in the state. missouri republicans have asked the governor to let them have a special legislative session right away, so they can work on an anti-voting bill like the ones that have passed in other republican-controlled states. with everything going on there in that state right now, this is their priority. and i know republicans are working on bills like this everywhere they're in control. but just looking at what's going on right now in the state of missouri among republicans, oh, my god, do they have other things to worry about right now. but apparently none of that is pressing to them at all. the only thing they want to work on is making it harder to vote. so i mean, listen, i feel like i have to get this off my chest for a little while now, so i'm just going to say it. there's two tracks on which this republican 2020 election fraud

fantasy is playing out. and one of them is completely ridiculous, right? like science fiction fantasy with all of the joy and surrealism and even the fantastic costumes that come with that genera. the first track that fantasy is playing out is in trumpland. that trump actually won re-election in 2020, he's actually the real president, joe biden is a fraud who appears to be in the white house, but he wasn't really elected, so he shouldn't be there. after trump national security adviser mike flynn and a becostumed trump lawyer named sidney powell went to a qanon conspiracy theory convention this weekend in texas and said trump actually won the election and he'll be reinstated as president this summer and flynn said we should have a u.s. military takeover, a military coup in this country to bring about the reinstatement of trump as president, after that happened this weekend, "new york times" trump whisperer, reporter maggie haberman reported this weekend that trump believes it. that trump is really telling

people he'll be reinstated as president by august this summer. after that reporting from maggie haberman at "the times," a pro-trump columnist at a conservative magazine today confirmed haberman's reporting saying that, indeed, trump believes he's going to be reinstated as president. he earnestly believes it. he's also telling everyone that republican senatos who love in november, they'll be reinstated too. david perdue in georgia, they'll get their senate seats back. just as soon as the whole election is thrown out and he's put back in power and all of the republicans get un-ousted. "the washington post" now confirming this basic reporting, as well. that trump insists he's going to be reinstated as president. it's insane, right? it's palpaby insane. most of them do now believe that the 2020 election wasn't real. it was fraudulent and trump was actually re-elected. even though joe biden's in the

white house. it is objectively nuts. but it is real enough to them, because they prefer that to reality, and importantly, because trump keeps saying it's real. and because republicans in states from arizona to georgia to wisconsin and beyond, they keep backing them up, saying there was something wrong with the election in those states, something wrong that needs to be audited or recounted or investigated. and as nuts as it all is, it is basically the agreed upon reality among trump supporters coast-to-coast now. so we're about to enter into a particularly volatile time with this. because trump is going to give a speech to the north carolina republican party at their state convention the day after tomorrow. in a fund-raising email about that speech, he's billing it a as a presidential address, because he is pretending to still be president. he sent out fund-raising texts today, calling that speech an official presidential speech, as if he is still president. next week in wisconsin, the

pillow company ceo, mike lindell, is hosting another of these trump is the real president convention things. the one he's hosting in wisconsin started off with this promotional flyer, but on tuesday this week, the flyer changed to reflect the fact that trump himself will be making an appearance at that event. they are billing him, as you can see there on the flyer, as the, quote real president. our real president. i mean, this is one of the two tracks on which the trump republican 2020 election fraud fantasy is playing out. it is, in fact, absolutely ridiculous. there's no provision in our country for a former president being reinstated. joe biden won the election by kind of a lot. republican members of congress tried to stop the certification of the votes, but that effort failed. on that same day, armed and violent trump supporters tried to stop the counting of electoral votes in congress. on january 6th, we saw what they

were willing to do to try to make it not so that trump lost the election. but trump lost and biden won and biden really is president. at the same time that biden is president, though, we are in this unprecedented situation that there is a former president out there earnestly pretending that he is still the rightful president. telling that to everyone who will listen to him and even telling it to those who don't want to listen to him anymore. he's doing right-wing radio shows now where he says about biden, how do you govern when you lost? as nuts as it seems, months after the election, the guy pretending he's still president has actually succeeded in getting republicans to cast doubt on the clear and certified election results in arizona, and soon in other states, including georgia and wisconsin. he's telling people he's the rightful president and will be reinstated. he's about to start speeches to that effect and a series of rallies to that effect, as well.

my question to you is this. think about this in a quiet moment. what is the end game of that. where does that go? what does that ultimately spark among his followers? i mean, the way that first track of the republican election -- trump election fraud fantasy is playing out in trump land, it is as ridiculous as it is dangerous. seriously, for the foreseeable future, there is no scenario now in which republican trump supporters are going to accept election results anywhere in the country, if that election doesn't produce the results they are demanding. that damage is done. republicans are not just, you know, against democrats now, they are against democracy now. significant numbers, if not majorities of republican voters will denounce and disbelieve the results of elections. they will treat elections as crime scenes and hoaxes, unless they win, for the foreseeable future. that i think is baked in already. that's a crisis for our country. beyond that, though wing it's also worth thinking about what

the logical next steps are, for our fellow americans who truly, earnestly believe this nonsense. who really take it into their hearts and believe that trump is still the rightful president. that joe biden is an imposter president in the white house who has somehow stolen power and taken over the u.s. government illegally. trump wants to be reinstated as president. he thinks he can be. he will tell his supporters that they must demand that, they must fight for that. how will they try to do that? what exactly do we expect them to do? what wouldn't they do? what does this lead to when a major political party starts indulging this kind of stuff. it doesn't end in like, let's have a better get out the vote in 2022. it doesn't end in, let's up our outreach to latino voters. this doesn't end in anything in politics, not when you have a

tyrant who's claiming to be president and he's not and the former leader must be reinstated by the people. that is something that doesn't end in a political place. that is a road that ends in a very bad place and we are way down that road already. and i'm not trying to be scary about this, but i find the place we are in here to be scary. that's track one for the trump republican election fraud fantasy about 2020. there is a second track, though, on which that fantasy is also playing out. and that's the one you can see track its way through the considerable, considerable mud that's all over the floor of, for example, the republican-led missouri state legislature, which all of its problems, the one thing they want to work on. it's this opportunistic pretext. well, if trump's going to raise doubts all over the country about how elections are run and how votes are counted, then republicans can use that as an

excuse to not just, you know, fantasize great excuses for their losses, to not just stoke suspicions of democracies and suspicions among their supporters, but use that as pretext to make voting as hard as possible. to take away voting rights. to make sure that small "d" democratically inclined voters in their states to make sure they have as many hurdles as possible thrown into their path on their way to the voting booth. and it does not look like there's going to be federal cavalry riding to the rescue on this. not unless conservative democratic senator joe manchin changes his mind on voting rights, and maybe not even then. but in the absence of something like the for the people act passing into law, the for the people act would protect voting rights in every state nationwide, in the absence of that passing, senator manchin, the fight to protect the right to vote, it comes from this crazy place that has also led trump to pretend to be the shadow president. but it has led to concrete

action in state after state. and the fight to preserve the right to vote, in the absence of any federal help, it's happening right now state-to-state, law by law, one after the other. democrats fighting republicans over this stuff in the state legislatures. and if they can't stop it in those state legislatures and those things pass into law, those things move into the courts, state by state, one after the other, all into the country. that's all we've got right now for voting rights. track one of the trump election fraud fantasy brings the country to the brink of madness. but track two in the states brings us to what is now a fully joined, full-time, urgent, state by state fight for democratic rights. . it's just as insane. that story is next. just as ins. that story is next [ suspenseful music ] ♪♪ hey, you wanna get out of here?

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the ups and downs of frequent mood swings can take you to deep, depressive lows. or, give you unusually high energy, even when depressed. overwhelmed by bipolar i? ask about vraylar. some medicines only treat the lows or highs. vraylar effectively treats depression, acute manic and mixed episodes of bipolar i in adults. full-spectrum relief for all bipolar i symptoms, with just one pill, once a day. elderly patients with dementia-related psychosis have an increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion,

which may mean a life-threatening reaction, or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be permanent. side effects may not appear for several weeks. high cholesterol and weight gain, high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, may occur. movement dysfunction, sleepiness, and stomach issues are common side effects. when bipolar i overwhelms, vraylar helps smooth the ups and downs. after the 2020 election, the first republican-controlled state to pass a big voter suppression law was iowa. did theirs on march 8th. the next day, march 9th, a lawsuit was filed against that anti-voting rights bill in iowa with the help of democratic voting rights lawyer mark elias. after iowa, there was georgia. march 25th, georgia's republican

governor signed into his state's anti-voting rights bill, signed into a room with six other white men standing by while they stood under a painting of a slave plantation. that same day, georgia itself got themselves sued with the help of mark elias. and florida's governor signed his state's anti-voting rights bill live on fox news. florida soon found itself sued over that law, also again with the help of democratic lawyer mark elias. over and over again, in all of those states, in montana and arkansas, and now most recently in kansas, republicans have expeditiously passed new laws to make it harder to vote and democratic voting rights lawyer mark elias has just as expeditiously sued them for it. mark elias, is clearly on it. but he is also sounding a public alarm that in his words, lawyers alone, and these lawsuits alone, are not going to solve this problem. joining us now to explain why is

mark elias, democratic voting rights attorney, the founder of democracy docket. mark, it's nice to see you. thank you for being here. >> thanks for having me, rachael. >> i think a lot of people look at your track record over the course of your career, but your track record particularly in the past year and they feel confident knowing that you are fighting these laws and you are bringing these lawsuits and they have a lot of faith in your ability to bat down some of the worst of this stuff. why are you trying to signal to people that actually these lawsuits and other good lawyers like yourself, it's not enough? >> well, really, for two reasons, rachel. the first is that it's not realistic to assume that every provision of every bad law is going to get struck down by court, you know? we won more than we lost in 2019 and 2020. we did better than that in the post-election, but you can't assume that when state after state after state throws the kitchen sink at voters and makes restricting voting rights their

top priority, that the courts are going to be there to bat them all back. the second reason goes, franl, to the point you made in your introduction. and it is so important. which is that we have a culture problem in the republican party, which is that right now, rather than solving the problems of their citizenry, rather than solving the problems of a covid, a reemerging economy, they are using their precious time in state legislature after state legislature to pass voting restriction laws targeting black, brown, and young voters. and if that culture doesn't shift, we win lawsuits and they pass new laws. and we win lawsuits and they'll pass new laws. at some point, this is only going to change if the republican party is able to change. and right now, that doesn't look likely. >> what do you think is both doable and the best-case scenario for trying to turn that ship around?

obviously, there's things that we -- you know, you wish you could turn people's hearts. you wish you could make people see the world in a different way. it's hard to do that in short order. i know that you have been a very vocal, very impassioned supporter of the "for the people act" in the senate. what is the best hope that you think is out there in terms of trying to turn this around? >> so, look, i view my role to buy time for democracy. we have -- you know, if we can buy time by fight off the worst of these provisions and give the political process an opportunity to rationalize itself, have congress pass the for the people act, that's great. if we can buy time for our democracy and maybe have some shift within the republican party that it stops viewing people voting as an existential threat to the party. rather, hay start to view participation of all americans as a goal that we should all

aspire to. then maybe we succeed. but look, i'm not overly optimistic. all i can do is every day wake up and try to protect democracy by showing up in courtrooms around america and telling judges that it's not right, it's not fair, it's not legal, and it's not constitutional to target black, brown, and young voters and disenfranchise them. >> marc, let me ask you about another piece of this, from something that was an object of interest and in some cases an interest of fun, because it was so ridiculous, these post-election audits or recounts. these third-party interventions where partisan groups and inexperienced, uncertified groups are being given access to voting machines and to ballots in order, it seems plainly, to cast doubt on election results and to make partisans feel like the results that they wanted could have been the real result

of the election if it was not for some magic pixie dust that had not been sprinkled there. i'm starting to see those efforts in a darker light than i initially did because i think they're having their desired effect. is there a legal case to be made there, that there are violations of federal law, potentially state law, in terms of the handling of voting machines and audits in terms of the way those recounts are being handle ed? >> i think you're entirely right. i've been trying to scream about this as loud as i could at the top of my lungs. in the former soviet union, the lie had become not just a moral category, but a pillar of the state. and the big lie has moved from a political category. something that trump and his allies were saying for political purposes and it is now turning into a pillar of the state. it is becoming a part of state policy. and that's really dangerous. and up with of the ways it's

doing it is through these audits. because it is giving the veneer of officialness. they're being done through state legislatures, through state officials, and it is allowing the big lie to have the impremadder of the state. and these are not audits and recounts. i've been involved in more statewide audits and recounts than probably any other person alive or dead. and these are not genuine audits or recounts. but what's happening is, they are spoiling the ballots. they are ruining the equipment. literally, the state of arizona is going to have to throw away voting machines based on this. so, yes, the i think it violates federal law? yeah, i do. because federal law requires that the ballots in federal elections be kept for 22 months after the election. and these ballots have essentially been tainted. doing it violates state law in some of she's states? yeah, i think it does. and i wish the judges would view this with the seriousness of

democracy being a threat rather than just feeling like, well, if they humor these crazy people, they'll go away. because we know when you humor these crazy people, they don't go away, they just keep repeating and making worse. >> mark elias, democratic voting rights attorney, founder of democracy docket, i know you're incredibly busy. thanks for taking time to be with us tonight. >> thank you, rachel. much more to come here tonight. stay with us. > much more to come tonight. stay with us

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did you pay back several of your top executives for contributing to trump's campaign by bonusing or rewarding them? >> that's an outrageous claim, sir, and i resent it. >> i'm just asking a question. >> the answer is "no". >> so you did not bonus or reward any of your executives, anyone you solicited for contributions to the trump

campaign? >> no, sir. i'm fully aware of legal campaign contributions. and i resent the assertion, sir. what are you accusing me of? >> "i resent the assertion. what are you accusing me of?" that indignant man is named louis dejoy. he's be in charge of the united states post office. in that job, as best as anyone can tell, he's been working as hard as he can to sabotage and screw up the u.s. post office. but what he was indignant about what the allegation that he had run an illegal campaign fund where employees made contributions, but he reimbursed them. "the washington post" reported that over a hundred individuals at louis dejoy's company contributed over $1 million to dejoy's candidates on his

behalf. many of those same employees had never previously donated and didn't donate again after leaving his company. employees reported feeling pressured to donate to please the boss. dejoy's director of human resources said, he asked employees for money. he gave us the money and he reciprocated by giving us big bonuses. an fec lawyer said it appeared to be a run of the mil but very illegal corporate straw donor scheme. another added, it's rare to see it that blatant. louis dejoy has denied doing anything improper. but fast forward today, and "the washington post" is now reporting that his political fund-raising and the remarkable number of his employees who seemed to have helped with that, that is now the subject of an fbi investigation. according to the post, quote, fbi agents in recent weeks have interviewed current and former employees of dejoy and the business, asking questions about political contributions and company activities. prosecutors also issued a subpoena to dejoy himself for information. a spokesman for louis dejoy

confirmed the existence of the investigation, but insists dejoy did nothing wrong. again, he's still running the u.s. postal service right now. the reporter who broke this news joins us next. stay with us. s news joins us next. stay with us it drives you. and it guides you. to shine your brightest. ♪ as you charge ahead. illuminating the way forward. a light maker. recognizing that the impact you make comes from the energy you create. introducing the all-electric lyriq. lighting the way. ♪

today "the washington post" was first to break the news that the postmaster general of the united states is under fbi investigation. louis dejoy is the man who took a wrecking ball to the u.s. post office in the run-up to last fall's presidential election. he's working now, even now, to slow down the mail even further. the fbi is reportedly investigating what "the post" described last year as a fairly blatant alleged scheme by dejoy to funnel illegal donations to republican politicians. joining us now is the reporter who broke this news today, "washington post" reporter matt zapatoski. thank you so much for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> do we know when this investigation began? >> we don't know exactly when it began.

i sort of suspect that it began after my colleagues back in september reported on this possible scheme that louis dejoy was involved in, essentially reimbursing his employees for political donations. at least, that's what a couple of them allege to us. what a lot of times happens in cases like these is the fbi and the justice department seize public reporting of a possible straw donor scheme. we've seen this in many other cases and we say, we want to look at this. we do know, in the last couple of weeks, the fbi decided to do what they would call taking this thing over. in other words, they went out and talked to witnesses in the world who could possibly tell their friends or tell reporters what had happened. and, you know, that led to dejoy finding out, dejoy himself was subpoenaed, we reported, and that led us to us reporting on this. >> do we know if mr. dejoy is cooperating with the investigation? >> he says that he is. we know that he was served with a subpoena and he'll have now some time to turn over documents

or not. he insists that he didn't knowingly did anything wrong. some of this conduct at issue, frankly, is from the time period of 2000 to 2014, which might be past the statute of limitations in a straw donor case, which is five year. there's other conduct that runs more recent. and obviously, the fbi wouldn't investigate if they didn't think there was any way they could probably bring charges. but the short answer to your question is, louis dejoy has signaled that he intends to do that, and he's also signaled that he's done nothing wrong. he believes he's done nothing wrong. >> now, an interesting point about the statute of limitations and how long he did this -- if he did, indeed, carry out a scheme like this, how long it was going for. one of the things that "the post" has reported extensively is how much money dejoy was able to funnel to donald trump, in terms of donations. is there any evidence that those donations to trump in particular

might be under investigation. obviously, some of those, depending on where they were, might be solutioned. any statue of limitation problems for earlier donations. >> right, so the campaign legal center has done some of their own investigation in this. and they've found that kind of the same patterns that occurred between 2000 and 2014, which we identified, which are employees donating to the same person in the same amount, on the same day. those patterns kind of continued into the trump era, when dejoy or the trump running for office era, the trump in-offic era, when dejoy was on the board of this company. he had run, he retired, and had served on the board. additionally, the campaign legal concert kind of found that sometimes employees' donations would matchup in amount and recipient to amounts made by dejoy's family members. there's certainly threads there in the trump era that the fbi is very likely to pull on. it remains to be seen sort of

what dejoy's role in all of that is. but what we had back in september was actual former employees saying, hey, this is how it happened. we were reimbursed for donations. and that's just clear as day for the fbi. we don't necessarily have that strong of evidence yet coming into the trump era, but we do, according to the campaign legal center, have the same kind of suspicious patterns that are worth looking at. >> matt zapatoski, covering the justice department for "the washington post", thanks for your time tonight and congratulations on breaking this story. it's a remarkable thing. thanks. we'll be right back. stay with us. thanks we'll be right back. stay with us

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learn more at factsonhand.com today. all right. that is goinghappy to have you friday eve. i'll see you tomorrow. "way too early with kasie hunt" is up next. >> i started testing my wife. and what i said to her, i'm okay. when i came in, she wanted to hug me and i tell her no. because i was covered, i was covered in pepper spray, my hands were