the same love. that does it for me. have a great weekend. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. joy? >> i have to tell you quickly, lil nas x is such a game changer. you and i were -- i'm not going to age you but i as a gen x person could not imagine a little nas x existing in hip-hop any time i was growing newspaper college as a hip-hop head, he wouldn't have existed so he's a game-changer. game-changer. >> absolutely, and fashion icon. >> and he can twerk better than most of us. other than you! have a great weekend. >> thank you. good evening, everyone. we begin "the reidout" on this wonderful friday night with a story of unrequited love. it's a story of mike pence's self-destructive yearning for a con man who had uncanny powers over him and the republican party which led to pence enabling this con man with

consultish praise or tongue-biting silence, even as he attempted to topple our democracy. such one-sided love, however, can sometimes curdle, turning into something else, toxic and downright abusive. which is exactly what happened on live tv no less. when trump incited a violent crowd that threataged pence and his family. it wasn't that pence was just caught in a cross fire, no. trump targeted pence and incited his mob by tweet to seek him out. here's pence being evacuated down a flight of stairs in the senate capitol. with "the washington post" reporting, if the pro-trump mobbed arrived seconds earlier, the attackers would have been within eyesight of the vice president. than mob made no secret what they intended to do if they found him. >> hang mike pence! hang mike pence! >> hang mike pence. chilling words for generations

to come. perhaps pence didn't get the presidential memo that he's just no that into you because mike pence, after all of that, emerged last night without even a fly on his head to say this -- >> january 6th was a dark day in the history of the united states capitol. you know, president trump and i have spoken many times since we left office. and i don't know if we will ever see eye to eye on that day. but i will always be proud of what we accomplished for the american people over the last four years! >> that's right. we don't see eye to eye, as if trump ordering a mob to lirj him was simply a disagreement over say brandy versus monica or whether the g.o.a.t. is tom brady or serena or simone biles. for pence, what's a little

murderous rampage amongst friends? it exposes once again as george conway described it, the unraveling of the republican party. to the point george p. bush, the son of a florida governor the president once called low energy, is willing to throw his family under the bus to support trump and his own political ambition. this is all happening as the failed florida blogger kicks off his grievance tour, emerging from his golden hidey-hole as the keynote speaker at the north carolina republican party convention. one place he cannot appear, however, is facebook. today facebook announced its suspension of trump's account will last two years, including instagram. and he will only be reinstated if conditions permit. in a statement the company said trump's post around the january 6th insurrection merit the highest penalty available under the new enforcement protocol. social media, however, is the least of trump's problems. there's now breaking news on the legal case against him and his family business. the manhattan district attorney's office subpoenaed a

senior finance executive at trump's company, jeffrey mcconnie, to testify before a state grand jury. according to "the new york times," mccanny served as the corporation's controller, making him one of a hand of executives to oversee trump's finances. joining me now, impeachment manager ted lieu of california and george steven, strategist of mitt romney's 2012 campaign and senior adviser to the linkage project. you're sitting opposite members of the house of representatives who are completely enthralled to this person who faces potential criminal linabilities, who faces huge financial liabilities, who can't help them in terms of fund-raising via facebook or messaging via twitter. when you talk with republicans, what is it about him that is so enthralling that he can get away with trying to lynch mike pence and mike pence still takes the

knee? >> we're watching the radicalization of the republican party in realtime, and specifically mike pence, i just have to say for most normal people, if one of my colleagues incited a bunch of people to try and kill me, i wouldn't talk to them anymore. i would try to get that person prosecuted. so i don't even understand why mike pence is even talking to the former president. he should be trying to put this person into prison or some sort of asylum. it is something that's very disturbing to me. we're really watching members of the republican party just enter a cult-like space and it's very hard to watch, just as an american to see one major political party deteriorate the way it is. >> and cult is a good term. when you enter a cult, you have to renounce your own family. george p. bush has done it. you have seen ted cruz viciously excuse attacks on his own wife and mother. you have to be able to cut your

own family and they're doing it but in the case of mike pence, they tried to kill him. can you explain why? he needs nothing from trump. why is he still taking the knee? >> first, i want to take this opportunity to thank the congressman, who other time i might have opposed but he's a real champion standing up for democracy. it means so much more than than any other political differences we might have had. so thank you, congressman. i think the dirty little secret here is that donald trump is what the republican party wants, and what he has tapped into is an obviously deep-seated, autocratic desire on the republican party. and i even think a cult is not the way to look at it because you can deprogram people from a cult but i don't know how you deprogram people from hypocrisy and racism. i think he's emerged as white grievance party's leader.

one of the things we saw here is leaders matter. we saw that in the 1930s, white people bash fascist probably because roosevelt was president and not henry ford. i think the thought of this is very disturbing and outcome is very much in doubt. >> you're very much right. let me play to you ron johnson, he demonstrated what it looked like to go all the way over. essentially he cannot bring himself to give trump any responsibility for what happened january 6th. here he is. >> why are you not aggressively looking at what happened that from the perspective of president trump's role? >> because we had an impeachment trial. >> but you don't think he bears any responsibility? >> i'm sorry, i think our hyper partisan politics is driving all of this. go back to the number of articles of impeachment against president trump. go back to the summer riots

where you had, for example, vice president harris encouraging people to donate to a fund to bail these rioters out so they could riot again. again, there's plenty of societal blame to go around. >> congressman lieu, he's blaming impeachment, speaker pelosi, everyone else is responsible but trump. in a sense, do you think it would make more sense at this point, given that's where the republican party is? i think stuart is absolutely right. wouldn't it just be easier for the speaker to empanel a blue ribbon commission, something like a house version of the watergate commission, and just be on with getting this investigation into january 6th going and forget the republicans and just do it, just have the democrats do it. >> the republicans cannot stop the full truth from coming out, so the speaker is either going to have a select committee or empower the standing congressional committees to look at january 6th to find out exactly what happened before

january 6th, what happened that day and what the consequences are. so it's going to come out. they can't stop this. it's just before what the investigation would look like and i just want to note something that happened during the impeachment trial, we were in this other room when we weren't presenting, and in this impeachment war room had big screens on so, of course, we had msnbc as well as cnn, fox, and there were literally entire portions of the impeachment trial that fox just did not show, including some very aggressive rioters beating up police officers that fox was just playing other guests just talking. so if you're just watching fox news, you can come away with a very different view on what happened january 6th. >> that's the challenge, right, stuart, you also do have people who live in a completely different information universe, where they don't -- they still want to believe what happened january 6th didn't happen or happened a different way. but i want to roll back just a little bit. i is it believe that a lot of this started before trump, and

the tea party was one signal of what we saw coming. i remember alan west, because i was in florida at the time. this is something who got drummed out of the military because he did a fake execution, mock execution, against an iraqly policeman, went back, ran for congress, and they did a lot of talk about getting your bayonet during president obama. during his campaign for the house, he was a tea party guy, and he said if you're here to stand up to get your musket, to get your bayonet and to charge into the ranks, you are my brother and sister in this fight. you need to leave here understanding one simple word, that word is bayonet. he moved to texas after he finally got drummed out of congress in florida. he spoke at the qanon convention and now he's resigning as the chairman of the texas republican party potentially to run against republican governor greg abbott in texas. so it's not just trump, stuart. there's a whole generation of

them, and i don't know how the republican party ever changes to back to anything like normal. >> i think the only way to save the republican party is burn the current republican party to the ground. you can't negotiate with these people. you cannot somehow meet some common ground. how do you meet someone common ground who wears a camp sweatshirt? these are people you have to challenge and defeat them. i think what troubles me most here you we might slip into a sense that this is a normal time, there's a great need for normalcy now. we never had, at least since 1816, a major political party in the united states of america that's a major anti-democratic force. and that is what happened to the party i used to work in.

>> yeah, and it's hard to even imagine the party that you worked in, mitt romney ever being a viable candidate for anything, for president again. it's completely different. so there's still regular business going on, which i still find a little bit weird, congressman lieu. you're on the judiciary committee. one of the sort of regular order things happening that trump was able to delay subpoenas back when he was president. now we have don mcghan, who's going to finally testify. he's going to come through -- and this is really going all the way back during impeachment. it took nearly two years to secure his testimony -- sorry, he testified today and this is -- it took more than two years to make it happen. are we just going to be cleaning up old business in the house? what do you think came out of that testimony? and at this point, is there any point to doing anything other than focusing on what happened january 6th and figuring out how to, i don't know, dethrone the

current republican party? >> it's ridiculous that it takes over two years to get a witness to testify, which shows we had to reform the congressional subpoena process. i introduced legislation that would allow the house to execute the power of inherent contempt, which is we can fine witnesses up to $100,000 for disobeying congressional subpoenas. that doesn't even need a vote of the senate, the house could simply pass it by majority vote and hopefully we can get that done. i also note that mcghan in his testimony, i have been briefed by judiciary staff, he repeatedly says how the former president ignored his advice, including his advice to not try to shut down the mueller investigation. when that official transcript comes out, i think you're going to see a former president basically did whatever was said in the mueller report but additional confirmation of additional thing the former president did that either violated real law or comes very

close to violating real law and i hope the department of justice looks at that official transcript closely. let me also say, thank you, stuart for standing up for our democracy right now. we all appreciate that. >> i second that to both of you gentleman. thank you both for standing up for democracy. you've both been vital and for some of us, just our sanity, to know we are seeing what we're seeing. congressman ted lieu, stuart stevens, thank you very much. up next -- a unholy alliance that would watch american democracy burn to the ground. instead of using the power in their hands to stop the runaway train of voter suppression and nullification by the republican party. plus, more than 34 million lives have been lost to aids, 34 million. now 40 years since the first of 40 cases, why it took so long for the government and the public at large to take the aids epidemic seriously. "the reidout" continues after this. is ♪ where everybody knows your name ♪ ♪♪

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there's been a lot of talk about voting these days because republicans are making it so much hard tore do. for many americans, let's be honest, it's already a grueling process. first, you have to make sure you're still registered, and then find time during the week to vote and then deal with long lines in the sweltering heat or freezing cold. but now picture a world where that doesn't have to happen. wouldn't that be great? just imagine you want to vote but you forgot to register ahead of time. no sweat, you can register and vote on the same day. don't have time to vote on a tuesday, mail your ballot ahead of time. no excuse needed. your polling place is closed, go to another voting location without having to be registered there. people! that's not a far-off fantasy. it's already happening in states like wisconsin, california, utah and colorado. these things could be available to all americans if only congress passed the for the people act. the bill, which is being teed up for a vote later this month,

would make it easier to register to vote online. it would automatically register you if you're an eligible citizen and allow you to register and vote on the same day. here's the problem, that bill, which we so desperately need, isn't close to becoming a reality because of an unholy trinity of naysayers. conservative democrats, i'm looking at you, who are more devoted to the filibuster than democracy. congressional republicans who don't want people to vote because if they do, republicans will lose. see the 2020 election. and finally big business like the chamber of commerce who would hate to see you all vote to make the economy more fair. it's easy to understand why professional republicans and chamber of congress would rather pledge allegiance to power and corporate interest than the people. it's less clear while senator manchin would defend his obstruction in the face of an already ongoing disaster by saying this -- >> i think it's a disaster waiting to happen if we go down

that path where it's going to be just, you know -- >> one bill specifically you think is the disaster or do you think a single -- >> i think nonpartisan, the more things we do in a partisan fashion and not try in a bipartisan fashion separates us further. it's not good for our country. >> with we now, errin haines, and ira shapiro from the seat of west virginia, whose seat is currently occupied by john manchin. thank you for being here. democrats, they're going to try all of these ways to try to convert the man you heard. it's not clear he's convertible but their new gambit is for apparently majority leader reid will put a bunch of bills on the floor, watch them go down, like a demonstration project you cannot overcome without getting rid of the filibuster.

harry reid tried something like this on judges in 2014. is that something worth trying? and what are you hearing about if democrats believe it's a strategy that can even worth? >> first of all, joy, let me say that is the music i hear in my head every single time i cast a ballot, magical and dreamy voting. it is music to my ears. wait, that is the music i also hear. ♪♪ yes, yes, every time i come on, if you can just play that music, it puts me in place, democracy, freedom, voting. yes, i'm about all of those things. but, look, john manchin is talking about wanting a barn -- bipartisan participation on the voting rights legislation. that would be great if the issue of voting had not become so partisan, but we know it has and we know republicans are on the march and state legislatures across the country enacting measures that are really going to make it more difficult for people of color, for other

marginalized folks to cast their ballots going forward. that is why folks like the naacp, urban league, the national council of negro women, black women's roundtable and others will be meeting with senator margin to try to convince him that he needs to do what it takes to get this legislation passed. look, i talked to naomi campbell tonight, the convener of the black women's roundtable. what she told me is she never met john manchin, never engaged with him but he's invited to this meeting and she's coming because she recognizes he's somebody of influence she needs to engage with to make the case for why he needs to do whatever it takes, even if that includes getting rid of the filibuster. she's looking at the calendar and she sees senators who will soon be focused on campaigning than passing legislation and for those leaders, this is really a very urgent moment and they feel like their time is now to make something happen on this issue. >> definitely, because you don't

have the right to vote. nothing else really seems to matter and nothing else will pass. ira shapiro, welcome to the show. you worked for robert byrd. mansion tries to style himself as the heir apparent ideologically, at least on the positive side for the ideology of mr. byrd. you wrote in a "new york times" piece, you were a staffer from 1975 and 1987 and former counsel as well. you wrote for mr. byrd and other senators of his era, the overriding goal was to ensure not that certain rules were expected above all else but a senate could deliver for the nation. in your view, what would he make of this, you know, intransigent stance by john manchin locking arms around the filibuster? >> i think what the article said, joy, is that basically when senator byrd, who was the great senate institutionalist and he keeper of the senate flame, when he encountered new

forms of obstruction, he rethought the filibuster basically. he had endorsed it in the past. he had a disgraceful filibuster in 1964 against the civil rights act, which he later regretted. but when new forms of obstruction came, what byrd cared about and what he feared most was a paralyzed senate that couldn't do the business of the country. and that is what i tried to suggest in the article. and my point in the article was, look, it's not going to be easy to put together a 50 in the senate. there will be plenty of back and forth, plenty of negotiation, et cetera. but we certainly shouldn't lock ourselves in to a 60-vote majority, 60-vote requirement that essentially hands the keys to the castle to mitch mcconnell. >> yeah, it seems like everyone

, krysten sinema, john manchin, and they are the two out front taking the bullet, the irony they're hanging on to this disgraceful senate rule that was used primarily against black folk, trying to prevent the right to vote, trying to prevent black people from being able to exercise the franchise, they're locking arms around it. i wonder how that can possibly exist inside a democratic party that desperately needs black votes? >> yeah, and a democratic party that was dependent on black votes to put them in power, right? >> yeah. >> not only in the presidency and presidency, but also giving them control -- keeping control of the house and giving them that narrow margin in the senate that doesn't feel like a very narrow margin at the moment, given that, you know, everything is coming down to the will of these two senators. that is why you see the

full-court press starting to happen. you saw president biden in tulsa basically not name checking them exactly but certainly i think nobody was listening who didn't know who he was referring to when he was talking about obstruction to the legislation being passed, deputizing vice president harris. you know, it was formally in the senate so she can go and try to persuade her former colleagues that these two, perhaps most of all, should get on board with this legislation and pressure from groups like the naacp, urban league and others who maybe under normal circumstances would not be meeting with senator john manchin but certainly are trying to have an audience with him and whoever else they need to talk to to get them on board with passing this, even if it means getting rid of the filibuster. listen, to ira's point, policy is about legacy, and how you start isn't necessarily how you finish. what john manchin's epithet is

going to say particularly around this issue is something i think a lot of people are thinking about. i wonder if he's thinking about it too? >> i wonder it sounds like a legacy in reverse. he's going towards the filibuster when byrd ran the other way in history. his excuse is potholes are not partisan. it's an illogical margin because if there's a pothole, nobody cares about partisan. they just want the pothole filled. >> let's see what happens, joy. he's hearing the arguments. he's hearing from the groups that will be coming in. he's hearing from chuck schumer and, of course, he's hearing from the president. president biden is the ultimate not only former senator but ultimate good-faith player in the political process. woe like a bipartisan result if it's possible, but he won't let the nation's progress be held

back by the senate's filibuster rule. and i think that's the right way to approach it. and i'm hopeful that senator manchin is watching the experience of the senate now. how does he feel having seen the filibuster that was just conducted against the january 6th commission? >> yeah. >> i mean, we take mcconnell very seriously at his word. he will obstruct if he can. >> when they filibuster the john lewis voting rights act, everyone will find out which god they serve. errin haines, ira shapiro, thank you both very much. still ahead -- the biden administration is considering tough new actions to counter ransomware attacks like the ones that shut down the key oil pipeline last month. but the idea of using u.s. military resources to target criminal activity is already generating controversy. stay with us. ok everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy.

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operations against hackers inside russia. this comes after the ransomware attack after the meatpacking company jbs, which threaten ed the food fly chain. and then the ransomware attack on the pipeline that shut off nearly half the east coast fuel supply, spiking a price in gas prices and long lines at fueling stations. and the most recent victim, hospitals who lost millions during the covid pandemic. in fact, according to "the wall street journal," the attacks tripled in the past year. they became so frequent that fbi director chris wray likened the threat to the one we faced after 9/11. there are a lot of parallels and focus on disruption and prevention. in fact, karine jean-pierre said the white house is delivering the message that responsible states do not honor ransomware to criminals. joining me now, the author of the new book "after the fall: being american in the world we

made." and i want to get your response not only to the tact that the biden administration is taking but to what putin is saying back, this is what he said, deny any involvement in the ransomware attack. there hasn't been any malicious russian activity whatsoever. i heard something about the meat plant. it's sheer nonsense. we understand it's just ridiculous, a pipeline? absurd. typical putin, i assume. >> yes, joy, there's an element of trolling in all of these comments putin gives. look, first of all, given russia's own sophistication in the cyber domain, the idea that they wouldn't necessarily be witting of what people were doing in their borders or have the capacity to stop it, i don't think anybody should believe that. and the reality is if you stack all of this up, cyberattacks, disinformation campaigns, there's basically a asymmetric warfare raging from russia into the united states that's been

subtly escalating for a long time now and this is really hitting at the national security of the united states, including our economic security, when the message of these ransomware attacks is essentially we can shut down sectors of your economy. we can hit you where it hurts in terms of not just trying to spy on you but try to disrupt life in the united states of america. >> he also -- putin seemed to try to draw these ideological lines. i mean, going after oil -- if they have responsibility going after oil companies when they are basically a -- they're not such a great oil conglomerate themselves but even defending the people who attacked the capitol, the insurrectionists. saying they just came with political and dmads, and saying insurrectionists are being, quote, persecuted. this is a guy who had his chief opponent imprisoned, and mr. navalny is at risk of dyeing,

has had a hunger strike, he's at risk of dyeing of kidney and heart ailments. this is a guy who jailed alexi navalny, his main opponent, and turns around saying the u.s. does it. >> there's always an element of what aboutism from putin. and i talked to alexei navalny last summer. he was very clear about the risks he was facing. he knew what they were. but he was exposing putin's corruption and that's putin's vulnerability. to connect to your last segment, joy, what putin is up to is depressing dis-sint and throwing people like alexei navalny in prison and poisoning people in russia. in this country he wants to see the failure of democracy as well. he's made common cause for the people who mounted the insurrection. made common cause, of course, with donald trump. and the reality there are people like alexei navalny -- i remember i was in contact with him after he was poisoned before he went back to russia knowing he would be put in prison, and

we can't get rid of a filibuster to protect our democracy? that's what people are doing in other countries to stand up to people like putin, i think that should shame our politicians who are standing in the way of that kind of action. >> indeed. in your book, i want to read little excerpts of it, you said like the republican party, putin has appealed to a particular strain of nationalism, christianity, hostility to muslims, subversion of the international order and belonging for an idolized past. it is interesting he's sort of a putin -- he's a trump-like figure and trump obviously looked up to him and wanted to be like him. >> yeah, i think we can understand what's happening in this country better by realizing there's one playbook, and vladimir putin has kind of perfected it, which is kind of development of authoritarian power supported by massive media machinery, supported by disinformation, kind of wrapped up in this national poe of us versus them. look, minorities are always immigrants, muslims, george

soros is a target of putin's as well as right wing here. i think we have to have our eyes wide open here that we're dealing with a trend that crosses borders and vladimir putin is really the forefront of being the disruptive force trying to undermine democracy but he's not alone in that effort, joy. we see a lot of people who are on that team. >> i was just going to bring up bibi netanyahu, who's been in office 12 years. looks like he's finally out. what are ramifications of perhaps the end of the netanyahu era in israel? what does it mean for the palestinians? what does it mean for israelis? what do you think? >> israeli politics have been stuck. they had four elections and netanyahu had been there just the last couple of years, netanyahu's been there 12 years. i think there's a healthy accountability to him leaving office. will he face corruption charges and he can face serious accountability there. that's for the palestinians, neftali in line to be prime minister, and more in line than

bieb by. i think the new government is fragile so there could be another election soon. in the near term i don't think it means any significant changes in terms of their policies towards the palestinians in particular. >> yeah, unfortunately so. the book is called "after the fall," and i hope everyone checks it out. i will definitely be reading it. ben rhodes, thank you very much. i appreciate you being here. up next -- marking 40 years since the cdc first acknowledged what was then known as the, quote, gay plague. 34 million deaths later, a look back at our government's feeble response to hiv/aids. we'll be right back.

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a little preparation will make you and your family safer in an emergency. a week's worth of food and water, radio, flashlight, batteries and first aid kit are a good start to learn more, visit safetyactioncenter.pge.com 40 years ago tomorrow, this country recognized the dawn of a tragic epidemic that would go on to take the lives of nearly 35 million people worldwide. and june 5th, 1981 bulletin, centers for disease control researchers described for the first time the mysterious cases

of five gay men in los angeles who had fallen ill with a type of pneumonia. all five had been previously healthy and two of the five had already died. those five men were the first reported cases of the illness that would come to be known as aids and the virus that causes it, hiv. at the time it didn't have a name but it quickly developed a terrifying and tragic reputation, as it ravaged gay communities across the country, inspiring fear in the terrifying early days before more was known about how it was transmitted, and discrimination as the disease became referred to as gay cancer or even more derisively, a gay plague. it was largely discounted, even as it took the lives of hundreds and thousands of men. you can be excused for not knowing it's been 40 years since those first cases, given the derelict response from the white house at the time. as the reagan administration did nothing, while government scientists, a young researcher at the nih, dr. anthony fauci,

first began studying the disease in 1981, with his research becoming instrumental in the way we understand hiv/aids today. it wasn't until 1982 that aids was first addressed in a white house briefing when then white house press secretary larry speaks was asked about the unfolding crisis. >> do you have any reaction to the announcement by the center of disease control in atlanta that aids is now an epidemic and over 600 cases? >> it's known as gay plague. it is. it's a pretty serious thing. one in three people who get this died. i wonder if you're aware of it. >> i don't have it -- are you -- do you? >> the face of government inaction, activists largely took it upon themselves in the street raising aids awareness calling for a federal response that would remain mostly nonexistent.

it wasn't until 1985 that president reagan daned to say the words aids publicly in response to a reporter's questions about funding research. and it would be another two years, 1987, before he made a speech entirely devoted to aids, calling for increased testing. >> i have also asked hhs to add the aids virus to the list of contagious diseases for which immigrants and aliens seeking permanent residents in the united states can be denied entry. [ booing ] >> that same year, the aids memorial quilt was unveiled on the national mall. each of its panels remembering and celebrating the life of an individual taken too soon by aids. but like ronald reagan, millions of americans chose silence and inaction over compassion, because it simply didn't affect them. in 1985, reagan's longtime friend, actor rock hudson, became perhaps the highest-profiled gay man to

succumb to aids. it wasn't until it started claiming people outside the gay community that americans really started taking aids seriously. there was indiana teenager ryan white, a hemophiliac who contracted aids from a blood trans ugs. like wise, arthur ashe, who got it from heart surgery. and in 1991 nba superstar magic johnson announced he was hiv positive. 30 years later, johnson is still living with aids, as are roughly 1.2 million americans. thanks to advancements in treatments, antiretroviral treatments that delay the onset of hiv. despite that though, more than 700,000 americans have perished over the last 40 years. and after the break, i will talk to an activist who's been on the frontline since the very beginning.

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case of the disease that is aids. according to the program on hiv aids since the start of the epidemic, aids related illnesses claimed the live offense 35 million people. and 38 million living with it in 2010. 1.2 million americans. joining me now former of the black aids institute. he was diagnosed in the early days and lost a partner to aids. thank you for being here. i appreciate you joining the show. i want to read to you a little bit of what you wrote. an article back in 2016. this is upon your 60th birthday. it was in your article. don't get mad for that. i have lived with hiv for most of my life. never expected to make it to 30. let alone to 60. wow. looking at that now, talk about your experience. when you were diagnosed.

how people around you reacted. talk about you. >> well, thanks if r having me. it's okay to talk about my age. no one thought i would be 30. and i'm 65. when i was diagnosed my doctor said you have six months. get your affairs in order. he was wrong. it was devastating to fipd out i was hiv positive. i was infected in 1980. i lived with hiv my entire adult life. in 1986 when i was diagnosed it really felt like the world was ending. already so many of my friends were sick, dying or dead. my immediate reaction was like the doctor said, i was going to be dead. i decided that if i was going to be dead in six months that i better get busy. and i just kept on being busy.

dying was going it take care of itself. i needed to focus on living. >> i remember being a teenager in that period. it started when i was in jr. high school. you didn't know anything about it. there was no talk by the government. it was invisible until easy e and magic johnson. or ryan white and the cases. that wasn't about the gay community. it was other than that just we in the non-lgbtq you don't worry about that. did it feel isolating to not have your government seem to care? >> absolutely. the price was severe for all of us. one of the things we realize in the gay community they were not going to be sending the lifeboats for us. if we were going to be saved, we have to do the saving. the reason why those famous

people, those people that the proper people got sick and died is because they didn't care. easy e wouldn't have gotten sick. magic johnson wouldn't have gotten infected. all the right people wouldn't have gotten sick if they cared about us. i grew up in the chicago. we learned early on if your neighbors house is on fire. pull out the water. in two minutes your house is on fire. if our government cared about us in the beginning, gay men. in the beginning. we wouldn't have the pandemic that we had. even that was mischaracterized. it was never about white gay men. black and other people of color were impacted. >> it's still the case. we put together statistics. they are really telling ability

society. in 2019 gay men accounted for 69% of new diagnoses. african-americans represented 13% of the population. 44% of diagnosis. in 2019, 18% of population. 30% of diagnosis. this is primarily impacting people of color. >> absolutely. it's what happens when you marginalize folks. hiv and aids was primarily a disease of poor people and black people and brown people. dins franchised people. we are 40 years of this. we see a light of the next pandemic. and the lessons we should have learned with hif and aids, we did not learn and repeated those same issues dealing with covid-19. >> my producer made a great point. who is very young. for young gay men and women today, the existence of prep. it changed the worltd. there is a drug that will

prolong life and allow a life without constant terror. but there is price issues and cost issues. you have to have healthcare. the south is where we're seeing cases. not a lot of folks have healthcare. how is the healthcare debate impacted this? >> it's connected to the definition of infrastructure. there's a debate going on somewhere else on that. a few pills for some people that were work sometime isn't a cure. it's not enough just to have the medication. you have to access to the doctor and the proximity. you have to have access to the information. trust the messenger. there's all these things that are involved and people actually being able to utilize care and treatment. today even though we have prep and better treatment, we don't have access. we don't care about the people who are most impacted. >> let's talk about billy porter. you get emotional interview and

talked about the 2007 diagnosis. he had financial issues and coming down upon him. his program, pose. how has that changed the way people talk about the era and talk about gay men and the community and the culture? >> it's so important. it speaks to the lie that people of color were not impacted. it makes it clear that people of color were involved in the pandemic. impacted by the pandemic. and a part of the fight to end the epidemic from the beginning. and that's an important lesson. particularly as we look at the 40th anniversary. i'm involved in the building of the aids monument in l.a. and we are focussed on making sure the stories are told. no matter who you are or where you were. or the intersection was. >> i know you lost your partner. tell us about him. >> chris and i met in 1980.

he truly was an amazing person. he was an activist. he really taught me the importance of speaking up and speaking out. and covering and being concerned about the world. >> i think we have lost -- hopefully we didn't lose audio. thank you for being here. that's tonight's "the reidout." all in starts now. tonight on all in. breaking news on the criminal investigation of the trump organize has continues. >> the new depths of shamelessness from malk pence and others. a major development from the trump grand jury. what we know about the senior trump executive about to testify. why democrats defending the filibust