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who shut down the colonial pipeline. what that ability means for future attacks, especially ones with the rise of cryptocurrency. and vice president harris is in her first diplomatic trip in office. she sits down with nbc's lester holt as she tries to tackle the ongoing crisis in our southern border. we're live ahead. welcome to tuesday. it is "meet the press daily" and i'm chuck todd. there are plenty of headlines from the january 6th report on the insurrection on the capitol, like the planning failures before the attack. the breakdown of communication and lack of resources available to authorities on the ground during the attack. there are new harrowing accounts from police and what they experienced amid the siege and whole host of recommendations about beefing up capitol

security capabilities. here's what's not in the report, an analysis of why the attack happened in the first place, what fueled it and just as importantly, who fueled it. those are the questions that, of course, involve former president trump, his ongoing election lies, his own political supporters and his speech the morning of the attack from the white house ellipse, and more. but as you can see from this interview with the top senators who produced this report, those are questions republicans do not seem overly eager to find the answer. >> would the attack on the capitol have happened without that event on the ellipse? >> no, this wouldn't have happened if he had not done all of his false claims of this -- of this election, it's what led to this insurrection. >> our job was not to go back to talk about what happened in terms of the motivation. it was about, okay, once it happened, what did we do here in the capitol and how could this

have happened and how can we be sure it doesn't happen again? >> doesn't somebody need to look at the how, not just the why? >> at the same time you've got the justice department pursuing 450 prosecutions right now. i think you're going to finds a lot of information that you can only find in one way and that's to pursue this through the legal system and that will lead you to new places if it's necessary to go there. >> here with mitch mcconnell speaking on the senate floor this morning, confirming the republican position. >> today's report is one of the many reasons i'm confident in the ability of the existing investigations to uncover all actionable facts about the events of january 6th. i will continue to support these efforts over any that seek to politicize the process, and i would urge my colleagues to do the same. >> the republican party's opposition to january 6th commission and willingness to

overlook the president's direct role in the attack are, of course, two of the big issues democrats in congress are grappling with now as they try to figure out what comes next for other major pieces of their mostly stalled agenda, voting rights to gun reform and beyond. in a moment i will speak to one of the impeachment matters from former president trump's second impeachment. joining me from capitol hill is leigh ann caldwell and frank figliuzzi, former fbi director and msnbc contributor. i want to play what kasie hunt did with the sergeant who was there that day. i think people need to be reminded of just how harrowing the experience itself was. take a listen. >> whatever i think there were findings inside the stage that was a construction site that you saw ripped apart, using that as a weapon, throwing them.

it was unbelievable, unbelievable, the crowd, they wouldn't listen to anything that police were saying at all. they continued to say we are here because our president, president trump sent us here. we won't listen to anybody else but him. >> i wanted to start the conversation there, this is a person who says president trump told him to be there. it looked like this report was all about compartmentalizing and, frankly, blaming the victim. >> it was definitely about karmtalizing. that was the point of this report, chuck. there were some things to celebrate in the sense it was bipartisan, which is something that is very rare here but it was also very limited in scope,

talking just about the security and intelligence failures, something both parties have been able to get behind, especially since their lives were, in fact, in danger that day. you played that clip of that capitol police officer, the report that they received statements from 15 members of the capitol police and that was some of the most compelling parts of this report, talking about the lack of communication, the lack of direction, the lack of a strategic plan on behalf of leadership of capitol police. then rank-and-file capitol police officers i'm speaking to are wanting members of congress, wanting whoever it is investigating to talk to more of them. they say that they are the ones who were there that experienced it on that specific day. when you pull back to look at the larger issue, despite the bipartisanship on this specific report, the political lines are

still very clear. what i have been asking republicans and democratic senators all day long if this is a good replacement before a january 6th commission and to a t, all of the democrats say absolutely not. there are a few republicans who say the commission is still necessary. of course, those are the ones who voted in support of it a couple weeks ago like senator romney. but the political battlelines are still drawn. like you played, mcconnell still insists he doesn't want to look back. >> frank, can you properly identify the intelligence failures? this is where i think the root cause has to be explored but i'm curious your position on this. can you properly explain the intelligence failures if you don't fully understand who in the government may have been on the side of the insurrectionists. because here's what this has

always looked like to me. a whole bunch of people playing down, all of this intelligence that was there, and a group saying oh, no, no, these people are harmless, don't worry about them, and downplaying the intelligence. yes, there were intelligence failures but it seems to me it's due to political influence. >> i'm one of those people who repeatedly said this wasn't so much an intelligence failure but rather than failure to execute on intelligence. what the report doesn't speak to, not only the what and how of january 6th, but the why of january 6th. what my greatest fear is the report becomes essentially a scapegoat report, all fingers pointing at the colossal failures of the capitol police department leadership, but it's a way to avoid for those who don't want any accountability, a way to avoid two things, first a commission or some kind of inquiry that would point back at really the leadership and who's

responsible, particularly on the gop side. but even in a larger way, chuck, could avoid us addressing much larger questions of what are the new rules of the road that have to be in place for intelligence agencies to actually collect on u.s. citizens in the domestic violence situation we're in and get their back against somebody like proud boys, oath keepers, et cetera. we don't have the rules, and until we give them the license to do their job, this could happen again. >> let me ask to respond to roy blount's game and he said it sunday and again on cbs, the 400-plus prosecutions will be a good way -- essentially could serve as at least perhaps the substance of what would go into a january 6th commission

analysis. it sounds good if you would have told me there was a joint fbi task force that was going to sort of put it all together but do we know that's even going to happen? >> here's my take on this, look, chris wray testified publicly on the hill what happened january 6th was domestic terrorism. what have we learned from our experience with international terrorism? in order to address that problem of arresting low-level operatives is merely a speed bump, not a road block. in order to really tackle terrorism, and this time domestically, you've got to attack and dismantle the command-and-control element of a terrorist group. i know this is painful to hear, that may mean people sitting in congress right now, people in and around the former president. that's how you do this. otherwise recruitment inciting and cult-like leadership continues to recruit people to violence. >> so, we know there's going to

be another vote but will there be a new urgency for it, maybe get police officers to testify in a senate committee? something that at least changes the conversation and makes it maybe that much harder for your roy blunts, who i think is in this mushy middle, if it wasn't for mitch mcconnell asking them to do a favor, that they would vote for this commission? >> real quick on roy blunt, senator blunt, he talked about the gop investigations as you just asked frank but also he asked senate investigators to cooperate in this report. they did not choose to use their subpoena power to compel them to testify, something that has actually gotten bipartisan criticism up here on capitol hill. now, as far as if there's going to be greater incentive for a

commission and another vote on it, you know, senate majority leader chuck schumer says there's going to be another vote that this is a reason to definitely hold that vote. i asked senator portman this morning, who was one of the co-authors of the report, who voted in favor to move on to the commission, but he said that he only did that because he was given the guarantee by susan collins that there were going to be changes to the staffing of it. so he's not even completely there just yet. i just don't think that this report is going to be enough to change the urgency and it's not going to be enough to get three more republican senators, chuck. >> no, may actually serve the purpose the other way, provide just the cover that a handful think would be enough for them. leigh ann, frank figliuzzi thank you for getting us started. now i want to bring in the co-chair of the democratic policy and communications

committee and impeachment manager for the second impeachment of president trump. congressman, it's good to have you on. this january 6th commission report, what did you learn from it that you didn't know from the quick investigation -- because time was of the essence -- that you and the impeachment team put together before the trial? >> thank you, chuck, for your question. i commend the senate for this bipartisan report. it does a good job of documenting the security failures on january 6th but january 6 and only happened because there were security failures. it happened because there was a violent mob that attacked the capitol and we didn't know why that happened. this report does not address that central issue, which is why we need an independent january 6th commission or to have a select committee or standing committee investigate that very question. i learned some more color as to what happened january 6th in terms of specific statements made by police officers as to

what they were experiencing. but i think we all knew the general context there were in fact security failures that allowed this mop to enter the capitol. >> look, we can hindsight, alternative history is something that is what novelists can do. what would have happened in the impeachment trial would not have started until march 1 and you had done six weeks of investigatory work. had we had that, would you -- would it feel as if we wouldn't need a january 6th commission? i keep thinking about that. did you ever look back and wonder, was that a missed opportunity? >> so we wanted to have the impeachment trial as soon as possible for two reasons, one was to hold the former president accountable. and if you recall at that time, he was still in office when articles of impeachment passed.

and we didn't know what other crazy things the former president might do so we needed to remove him from office. the second was to establish a record for future generations so they know what happened january 6th, what led up to it and what the consequences are. if we had an impeachment trial later and served that function, i'm not sure we would have gotten much more evidence because the republicans would have objected to the subpoenas and gone to court and delayed the vote to get any more witness testimony. >> so let me ask you this, a january 6th commission, the odds look longer today than they did even yesterday. so short of that, what do you think are the best of the other options available that you would like to see that could give -- and here's the goal -- to get as much credibility with the results that are found by said entity as possible, if not a commission that's bipartisan and equally divided, what do you think is the next-best alternative? >> my view of politics is

everything seems impossible until it happened. so it's certainly possible that the senate can still get this independent commission through and i think the senate will try again. if it does not happen, speaker pelosi can certainly set up a select committee or charge the standing committees to do the investigation. either way, the truth is going to come out, the republicans cannot stop the full truth from coming out to the american people. >> what would a subpoena witness list look like for you, assuming that whatever entity we have that investigates does have subpoena power? >> one of the questions we could not nail down is why did it take so long for the former president to have any reinforcements come in january 6th when we all knew there was an insurrection and we were watching this on live tv. so who did he talk to in those critical hours where he did nothing? what did the white house chief

of staff know? what did other enablers know? what did kevin mccarthy know? those are,ing i think, answers the commission or select committee or standing committee would investigate. >> and, you know, when you look at sort of the fact that republicans seemed to somehow believe now that they're afraid of the -- they're afraid of what's going to be found, so if they're afraid of the political fallout and our politics are designed the way it's designed, where that political party will decide that 2022 matters more than anything else, how do you get around that? how do you hope you don't get the select committee hijacked by the republican opposition? >> it is disappointing that more republicans aren't willing to put country over party. however, in congress, we've had select committees in the pass. we also have our standing committees and the american public will see what's happening. you're going to have a number of these hearings that will be

public and you can see the witnesses actually testify and the american people can make the decision for themselves as the evidence that they're seeing and hearing with their eyes and ears. >> i want to ask you a question about a dear colleague letter, the speaker sent to members of the democratic conference today about hr-1 versus hr-4 in particular. one of the things, i want to highlight something in the letter that was written there, and it said this, hr-4 must be passed but will not be ready until the fall and is not a substitute for hr-1. john lewis wrote 300 pages of hr-1 to end voter suppression. it must be passed now. it would be our hope to have this passed by the house and senate in bipartisan way. two things here, i heard you say anything is impossible, sometimes in politics everything looks impossible until it happens. and another way to look at it, politics is the art of the possible. and hr-4 looks more possible

than hr-1. at what point do you think the focus should be about getting hr-4 done? it does seem to unite the party a bit more and possibly get some republican support. hr-1 has divides inside even the democratic party. your thoughts? >> we will fight to keep both hr-1 and hr-4 through. you're correct hr-4 has more support and senator manchin appears to support an even more expansive hr-4, which would provide preclearance to all 50 states, not just a secretary number of states. i also don't want the american to be to be dispirited about what's happening. even though you have these state laws being passed, they cannot stop you from voting. if you're registered to vote, you can vote. i think there be a backlash next year with angry voters who are going to go out and vote to show republicans they cannot suppress their vote. >> look, the issue is the

administration issues. there's an argument to be made that actually a voting rights act may be a more powerful weapon against anything hr-1 can do but we'll find out with the courts. congressman ted lieu, thank you for coming on and sharing your perspective with us, sir. >> thank you, chuck. coming up -- the latest on the escalating cyber war. america managed to hack the hackers that shut down colonial pipeline last month. that's a big deal. what does it mean for the future of pushing back these ransomware attacks? every day seems to bring new headlines of another attack. trust me, many of you woke up this morning seeing the website issues and thinking that's the world we live in now. and vaccination rates drop to new lows. president biden's july 4th vaccination goal suddenly out of reach? in] [voice of female] my husband ben and i opened ben's chili bowl the very same year that we were married. that's 1958.

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welcome back. in what feels like at least a bit of the win in the cybercrime war, the fbi disclosed it recovered most of the ransom colonial pipeline paid to hackers. the ceo, joseph blunt, told lawmakers he went to authorities almost immediately after finding out about the attack last month. and while keeping the fbi informed, colonial decided on its own to pay the $4.4 million ransom. the fbi was able to trace and seize the money from a bitcoining the from california and he talked about the decision to pay the hackers. take a listen. >> i made the decision to pay and keep the decision about the payment as confidential as possible. 2 was the hardest decision i made in my 39 years in the energy industry and i know how critical our pipeline is to the country and i put the interest to the company first. >> now, blount's testimony comes, of course, as we have

seen recent cyberattacks not only on the colonial pipeline but jbs, one of the country's largest meat providers, as well as multiple transportation agencies. and this morning, many of us woke up to find major websites like "the new york times" and amazon shut down. that outage appears to be related to a cloud service company which said it fixed the problem. we don't know the root cause, but concern it could be a cyberattack shows you how on edge we are all about the capability of hackers around the world. for more, we're joined by christopher staud, who served on president biden's national cybersecurity commission and a former deputy national security adviser to president george w. bush and now an nbc news national security analyst. let me start with -- i know you're ears to the ground. what more are we learning about the outage this morning and how much confidence do we have this

is basically a normal tech problem type of thing, not a good one, obviously, versus sabotage? >> so i think everything we are hearing now, chuck, it is a normal tech-type thing. they said their service configuration disrupted their services and they were able to get it back online in 15 minutes. i think the time from compromise to outage and resurrection usually can be a strong indicator that it was something that happened internally so it was a tech issue with a significant impact. >> let me start with ransom. i want to get both of you on this issue. i had a divide on my sunday show. i had a mark warner, who wasn't ready to go there on banning ransom payments. i had jennifer granholm said if it was up to her, she would ban ransom payments.

this ability to now claw it back in the wallets might be a game-changer. but let me start with, what would the impact be if we banned ransom payments? >> i think banning ransom payments is a destination we're certainly letting to get to but we're not there yet. we need to have better resilience and safety net. the colonial pipeline, if they not paid it, it could have gone down. but ransom is the tree in the forest, not the forest. we've got to do a better job to make our resilience more enforced and the infrastructure is protected so we don't get to the place to pay ransom. but we have to create that structure and support and this comes with government and industry working together to be sure we have basic security standards that are practical and reasonable and that are required. >> you know, juan, clawing back

of this money, it was interesting when you read what the public reports about it, there's a lot of information i want to know more about but it was basically as they were moving the cryptocurrency around, once they found it and sort of somewhere a federal judge said, yes, it's legal to go in and grab it. go grab it. do you believe this is a game-changer now that the fbi has shown its ability it can track crypto? >> i think it is, chuck. i think what we're witnessing is ransomware coming out into the open. this has unfortunately been business as usual for cybercriminals and actors holding data and systems hostage. we've known this has been an pandemic in the marketplace attacking hospitals, health sector, retail sector. what you now have out in the open is the open battle space of cybersecurity playing out with

ransomware. what you've seen the fbi just do is the ability to track and trace using the very elements of the blockchain to be able to trace these transactions, the ability to actually go get the private key and to identify the addresses at play and then be able to seize. this is 21st century cat and mouse with ransomware, cybersecurity and cryptocurrency. this is a game changer. it is something that can be done, tracing can be done. there will be much greater public/private coordination and there has to be more pressure internationally to do to bring people into account. you can arrest hackers. we've done that to date. it has to be a change of attitude to say we're not going to accept this pandemic of ransomware that has so bedevilled now critical infrastructure and we can't accept this as business as usual

anymore. >> juan, it's an uncomfortable truth about crypto in these ransomware attacks. it does feel as if it wasn't for crypto, these ransomware attacks wouldn't be as successful. >> i think crypto, in particular bitcoin, is the deferred method of payment in the crypto domain, has facilitated the transactions. but ransomware and cyberattacks would be happening anyway and criminal actors would find ways of accessing the payment in some other form or fashion. what's really interesting here, chuck, as you look at the analysis there are really hot spots and elements in the crypto system that congregates the bad actors, where they operate to find malware and ransomware to try to attack as well as then ways to get payment out and into the hands of the criminals. it's not just about criminal

actors, chuck. bear in mind the u.n. last year had a study that the north koreans profited by about $2 billion based on cyberheists of a variety of sorts. it's not just the existence of crypto but the facility of cyber and cyber criminality allowing nefarious actors to profit across the globe. >> colonial's ceo also reminded congress, okay, the pipeline is working but this hack did long-term damage. i want to play what he said and get you to talk about that on the other side. >> i think what a lot of people don't realize about signer attacks and repercussions of a cyberattack is it takes months and months and months and from what we heard about others impacted, years to restore your systems. our focus that first week was restore the critical systems we

needed on the i.t. side we needed to safely and securely bring the system back up. the remediation is ongoing. >> you know, it sounds -- what that sounds like to me when your home goes through a hurricane, you have water coming through the roof and you're like let's get a blue tarp on. let's stop the water coming in. then we can start to assess the longer term. that sounds very -- it feels like we're just as vulnerable right now as two weeks ago and that colonial pipeline shutdown could in some ways be set back worse. that was not very reassuring. >> remediation from cyberattack is always a challenge. i have to tell you, chuck, i would have a lot more passion if this incident didn't happen because basic things like multifactor authentication and use of multiuser password weren't the reason for the

breach. we know the local government is working closely with colonial pipeline to make sure there's remediation and perhaps some of the money recovered can go back to the government for all of the time they spent working with colonial to get them to do the basics. i do want to go back to something you said about the fbi, this investigation clawing back the money as a game-changer. we talk a lot about a whole of government approach. essentially there's a new sheriff in town. this department of justice said we will use our capabilities and our authorities to go after our part of ransomware and i really commend lisa monaco and the team for what they've done. lisa's background in terrorism will certainly play a role because she knows what it is like to go after criminal actors. and now we will see cisa do their part. that will create a larger infrastructure and having the help as well with the remediation and quality. the investigation here, there has to be accountability for what you are and are not doing in the private sector and we

have to see greater motivation and incentivizing to do the basics. we have physical standards when it comes to critical infrastructure and safety standards. we need to have those safety standards when it comes to the digital world. >> juan, i assume the upside of the fbi and justice department proving it can claw back the ransom is that in turn i hope convinces many a ceo no matter the size of your company, hey, the fbi is there to help. don't worry -- you get the sense they're fearful of such a pr problem, they never want to tell the public but this you would hope encourages more businesses to cooperate with the government, unless we have to pass a law to do that. >> i think that's the hope. i think in the cyber domain, there has to be much greater collaboration between the private sector and government. that starts first and foremost with information sharing and also collaborating when we get to a moment like this where a

piece of the critical infrastructure is put at risk and affecting the national economic security of the country. so this has to be a wake-up call for ceos to recognize, look, this could happen to our company. we have to have not just the preparation in place but we have to be ready to cooperate with the government. this also sends a signal to the bad guys, chuck, there can be a reaction. you may not profit from this and it may send a signal that you want to stay away from the critical infrastructure if you're going to engage in these kinds of attacks because the u.s. government, its task force has doh and dhs and resources with the private sector will come after you and will not make this as profitable as you thought. that's an important message here as well. >> yeah, in short term it may only send them back to the smaller companies but then that in turn perhaps is the beginning of hopefully making this a less profitable enterprise. kiersten todd, juan saturday rarty, i appreciate having both

of your expert brains with us. thank you. meanwhile, i have breaking news here. nbc news confirmed the number two at the u.s. capitol police, assistant chief of police, chad thomas, has officially resigned from his post. late last month the capitol police labor union said more than 70 rank-and-file officers resigned or retired since january 6th. thomas oversaw the uniformed officers since 2019. coming up -- the vice president is telling migrants, don't come to the united states but at the border, more and more migrants continue to arrive. the situation is desperate for them and it's dangerous. we're live in reynosa, mexico, next. active and eating right? yup, on it there, too. you may think you're doing all you can to manage type 2 diabetes and heart disease but could your medication do more to lower your heart risk? jardiance can reduce the risk of cardiovascular death for adults who also have known heart disease. so, it could help save your life from a heart attack or stroke.

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and comes in original prescription strength. salonpas. it's good medicine. welcome back. vice president kamala harris just met with the president of mexico on day two of her first solo foreign trip since taking office. focus on the vp's trip is addressing the root causes of the surge of migrants that have been coming across the southern border or attempting to come across the southern border. speaking yesterday in guatemala city, the vice president had a simple message for potential migrants -- do not come. in an exclusive interview with nbc's lester holt, the vice president reiterated that message and defended her decision mott to visit the border, at least as vice president. when she was a california senator, she went there plenty then. take a listen. >> we've been to the border. so this whole -- this whole thing about the border, we've been to the border. we've been to the border. >> you haven't been to the

border? >> and i haven't been to europe. i don't -- i don't understand the point that you're making. i'm not discounting the importance of the border. listen, i care about what's happening at the border. i'm in guatemala because my focus is dealing with the root causes of migration. there may be some who think that is not important, but it is my firm belief that if we care about what's happening at the border, we better care about the root causes and address them. >> gabe gutierrez joins me now. he's along the mexican side of the u.s./mexico border. gabe, you know, we see the statistics. we see the numbers. we know how many are trying to come in and how many get sent back and all of this. how many are you seeing at the border right now? >> well, chuck, this is the new bottleneck at the border.

we're here in reynosa, mexico. this is a new migrant camp that sprung up. there are hundreds or so. my colleague can show you, what's most striking, chuck, is the number of children we are seeing. this is different from other migrant camps we had seen before. there was one dismantled not too long after president biden took office. this was another one that sprung up. there's one in tee juan. and most of the families have been expelled back into mexico because of what's known as title 42, covid protocols put in place by the trump administration that the bhadelia has decided to keep in place and some immigrant advocates are critical the biden administration hasn't done away with those. the question right now, chuck, is you just heard vice president harris say don't come and the president himself said that several times since he took office. the question is whether the migrants here are getting that message. i can tell you from speaking with many of them over the last

couple of days, they have not. instead, they're getting messages from human smuk lers that are telling them misinformation, spreading misinformation and they're paying them thousands, sometimes more than so $10,000 to get here. right now, again, this migrant camp is full. it's right in the middle of town. nearby shelters are also at can capacity and this is just feet from the u.s. border. chuck? >> dave gutierrez at the border. if you're in a desperate situation and you're told not to come, either situation is desperate. so what are you gonna end up doing? it's understandable why the migrants are still picking hope against hope they can get across the border. gabe gutierrez at the border, thank you very much. up next -- it's primary day. voters are picking candidates in some of the big off-year elections we are closely watching to learn what the mood of the electorate is before the big midterms next year. that's next. stay tuned.

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welcome back f it's tuesday, somebody is voting somewhere. today it's a lot of some wheres, mostly in new jersey and virginia, where voters are choosing gubernatorial nominees. in new jersey, republicans vying to take on governor phil murphy, who's running unopposed for the democratic nomination and also the favorite to win in november, in what is a fairly blue state. and running is businessman singh and phil rizzo, both embracing the former president. assemblyman jack ciattarelli has tried to walk the line distancing himself from trump's personality while trying to back some of his policies, sort of a thing we've seen in other blue states by certain republicans. in virginia today, former governor terry mcauliffe is likely to capture the nomination of his former job.

the challengers include jennifer carol foy, who is in position to be the country's first black woman governor if she pulled the upset. virginia republicans picked their nominee in a statewide convention last month, which, by the way, does allow for a lot more republicans to vote in the democratic primary. that perhaps will be something to watch tonight as the results come in. you can keep up with the results on msnbc.com, of course. and up next the mayor of richmond will join us on how they're challenging the plummeting vaccination rates. tis hello, my name is ice t. can you spare a few seconds to learn about cold water washing with tide? hi my name is steve. did you know washing in cold can save you $100 a year on your energy bill. why wouldn't you turn to cold? it helps the environment. what? because stone cold said so. plus, tide cleans great in cold. ♪ this was a cold call! ♪

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welcome back to the. cdc director attributed the sharp decline in cases to the vaccination efforts. those numbers have slowed a bit. the vaccination rate fell below 1 million a day, and we are joined now by the mayor of richmond, virginia. he has set a similar goal for his city as biden set for the country. mayor, i know it's election day and we could be talking about politics, but let's talk about this issue. what are the impediments you are

running into, and what will it take to hit this goal? >> i am leading a coalition of mayors all across the country, and what we believe is a moonshine and that's shooting for 70% of our adult population to be vaccinated before july fourth. here's the thing, these ambitions -- these goals are meant to be ambitioner, and we shoot for the moon and if we fall short we land in the stars. right now in richmond today, 52% of our adults have received at least one vaccine, and we are about 44 percent of our population is fully vaccinated. still a ways to go, but we see the light at the end of the tunnel. what we are experiencing here in richmond, a lot of those that have not been vaccinated yet fall into three categories, the

first group is vaccine hess hez hesitancy, and then two is the access, and then the third group is they have not gotten around to it. we're hoping to get those individuals off the sidelines and a shot in their arms. >> sometimes there's a carrot and sometimes there's a stick. we tried a lot of carrots and they're not working. do you think we need mandates? >> i think there's a lot of different states and cities are doing everything from giving out free ice cream and free beer to get a shot in their arm. i don't think we are at a mandate state just yet, but i do

believe if we don't get to 78% before the fall i think there should be concern for every community, so it's going to take more time than what we thought it would be, but i still think the light is at the end of the tunnel and we can get there, and the finish line is right before us. >> what does the school year look like if you can't hit 70% or more by september? >> here in richmond we plan to be back in person in education at the beginning of the school year in september. we were the last to hold out for in-person instruction, and we're ready to get back. life is obviously changing right before our eyes and i think this is all about building confidence necessary to be able to go back to work and being allowed to let your kids go to school again,

and i have confidence the kids will be able to go back to school safely. >> a little politics. you are supporting terry mcullough. this primary had three very well accomplished african-american leaders. why do you think terry mccullough has had more success. >> i think terry has run a well disciplined campaign from day one, and he talking about issues that are of concern in the black and brown communities, and we have somebody that has been at the helm before that will understand what it takes to get our economy roaring again. he did it when he was governor from 2014 to 2018, and i believe we can do it again. i think that message has

resinated throughout the commonwealth. he's based in broad-based coalitions not only to win the primary but to win this coming november and we all know that. we have a lot of trump believers and they will take us back to the stone age and we don't want to go there. >> i know you are working with a lot of other mayors to get to the vaccination rate, and we're all rooting with you on this one. >> thank you. i thank you all for being with us this hour, and msnbc's coverage will continue with jeff bennett right after this break. (daughter) daddy! (dad vo) she's safe because of our first outback.

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