that campaign fueled by the big lie of a stolen election collide so straight than arizona home to a democratic senator stands in the way of voting rights reform that can put a stop to the gop led voter suppression bills and where the sham audit of the ballots is essential to fueling and keeping alive the big lie. a call for help today from arizona democrats to senator sinema to support filibuster reform to clear the way for democrats' sweeping reform bill. they write this, we all on you to do everything necessary up to and including reforming the filibuster, to pass the for the people act. our democracy is too important to be sacrificed at the altar of archaic anti-democratic senate procedures. all this is happening as the sham audit in the home state

rolls through the seventh week. the circus of a recount company that entailed searching for bamboo in the ballots because of some weir r weird theory that they were shipped in from asia has become a pilgrimage site for republicans who support the big lie. many of them hoping to replicate the sham audit in their own states to breathe fresh life into the conspiracy of a stolen election. npr is reporting that republican officials from nevada, georgia and alaska have visited the recount site and lawmakers from wisconsin and virginia are expected there this week. meanwhile new reporting is shedding light on the links between the phony audit and the stop the steal movement and the disgraced ex-president himself. documented show a correspondent for one america news with close ties to trump is helping arizona senate republicans in the audit

for months. "the new york times" reporting people in former president trump's circle joke that the most senior adviser to the former leader of the free world is a correspondent with the far right pro trump one america news network whom he consults frequently and while the ex-president pinned the delusions of a return to power on the arizona audit and his republican allies across the country are using the audit to stoke the conspiracy election fraud, there's signs out -- in the real world of a backlash. also from "the new york times" a review of 2.1 million votes in arizona's county ballooned into a political windsock for the republican party. an early test of how its renewed to sub serve yens to would play for trump. high ground, inc. found that

more than 55% of respondents oppose the vote review. fewer than 41% approve. but 45 to 33% said they were les likely to vote for a republican that is in favor of the recount. arizona political reporter ryan randozo is here. also jason johnson. and charlie sykes for the bullwork. i usually start with the news and the reporting. i will do something different today. i want to start with the best smoking gun evidence of why this is all bs on the part of republicans. i want the show you the governors, charlie sykes, bragging about how secure their elections were while they are now signing into law voter suppression laws to deal with

now insecure their elections were? let's start with that tape. >> the people are actually looking at florida and asking the question, why can't these states be more like florida? florida was able to 11 million ballots why the way florida did it i think inspires confidence and how elections should be run. me signing this bill says, florida, the vote counts and going to be cast with integrity and transparency. >> as i've said before we do elections well here in arizona. the system is strong. and that's why i have bragged on it so much. >> this bill is simple. all about election integrity. >> look at texas, florida, ohio. we didn't have a problem and we had more mail-in ballots. >> americans no longer trust the system. in a country where voters do not trust the system is a country in peril.

>> charlie psychs, i will play thatter day why the republicans said that the election results trusted because they were in charge and models. now signing laws based on lies. that they know are lies because they told the world they're lies. >> think about how fast this accelerated since november. we thought that the country was divided and movered quite a distance because this is the heart and soul of the republican party is to embrace this big lie to cast doubt on the election and to use that then as an excuse to change the laws. and as we have said before we can roll our eyes and treat the arizona audit as a joke but a clown with a flamethrower still has a flamethrower. this is spreading state to state. that illustrates that you don't need to have any evidence that there was a problem for the

republican governors and legislatures to embrace the big lie and theories to begin to change that. there's no logical connection to it. except that this is now become -- this has become gospel in the republican party. and it is not just arizona. i think that the latest count you had legislation to bes from serve states visit this arizona audit. what you are seeing is here is about to metastasize across the country. >> jason, i think there's something exasperating for our viewers about this dynamic but it doesn't have to be this way. the whole thing, the whole wave of laws can be undone by a piece of legislation and i think the letter from arizona democrats that we mentioned in the lead to sinema puts her on the spot. she either sees and hears no

evil in her own state, this fake recount in arizona, and she has no interest in changing a tradition in the senate to do something about it. >> yeah. senator sinema is in a different position than joe manchin and not just the democratic party in arizona is mump more organized and show victories in the last couple of years. they point out her argument for being in power, winning the senate seat she said i'm the only democrat to be elected in arizona so you have to deal with my quirky attitude and occasional inconsistencies because that's what arizona wants. okay. now their putt in mark kelly and arizona has flipped blue and not the only kind of democrat to win in this state so you have to listen to your constituents, not just the independents and right wingers but democrats. this is the kind of pressure i think to make a difference with her but again it's just one

vote. unless it also turns into a push on joe manchin you need both democratic senators to actually care about democracy more than their egos to stop the ridiculous attempts to overturn elections happening around the country. >> why can't a group of people who care about democracy, jason, make the filibuster so toxic that it's a political vulnerability for sort of moderate or endangered senators in both parties? why can't it be an impediment to access to the right to vote and not living in a country where everyone is armed and dangerous? why can't a campaign be launched to make people understand that the filibuster stands in the way of bills with support? >> that can be done. the question is going to be whether or not that moves the senators. like i said i think sinema --

look. i want this to be clear and not a way about age or experience or gender. i think her position is much less defensible than joe manchin. he is doing this because he knows he doesn't have to be reelected and ego and power and always liked being the contrarian guy. sinema i think likes to be different. i don't see as much substance behind what she is saying so a national campaign probably will work on her. just being threatened, people who i know in arizona say people line up to primary her already. right? i don't know that that will work on joe manchin. when he decided to hide the message and write that note that was giving the middle finger to the democratic party, joe biden who he had a great relationship with and american democracy in general and i don't know if a national cam pane or a moral monday march or anything will

change his mind at this point but sinema i think can flip. >> ryan, president biden on a foreign trip expected to meet in a few more days with russian president vladimir putin and what is on russian president vladimir putin's are the problems at home with democracy and brings us the maricopa county audit. tell us the latest. >> they say they're going to finish up counting in a couple days and takes possibly weeks to examine the ballots. we don't know what that means. they have tables around the outside of the arena there with cameras set up. previously they said they were looking for bamboo fibers and then uv lights but we don't know all of the techniques to use to review the ballots after they're done counting the ballots. >> what is the dynamic?

you brought us some really vivid color from inside the room. of the kinds of people that were involved. has there been any turnover? is cyber ninjas still at the helm? there are now republicans, allies of the disgraced ex-president traveling to maricopa to observe ostensibly to replicate that in their own state. tell us what that dynamic is like. >> the arizona audit appears to be a brand that these folks want to associate themselves with. while the media is mostly restricted to the 19th row in the coliseum the folks from other states, lawmakers or hopeful lawmakers and governors to get to tour the floor, see behind the scenes down there and then some of them do choose to

giver press interviews and i have to believe they think the brand will sell with voters back home so they're really making a big show of who's coming to town. we have lawmakers in arizona who support this audit who announce it like i'm clear to announce now that we will have a delegation from this next state to really sort of build up the suspense on who's coming next and really give a platform to the folks to show basically that they are still aligned with president trump. it's hard to do that in another way when he's out of office but you can show that you still are a trump loyalist. >> you have some great reporting and analysis about the vote ina. you write that the groups cyber ninjas run analysis on the data

and say that the key to the loss in arizona were republican voters who supported the party in nonpresidential races, identified tens of thousands of ballot didn't vote for trump. explain that. >> yeah. that analysis was run not by the cyber ninjas but the founder of clear ballot why that's an actual election auditing company that's actually audited elections for states before and certified to do that. they analyzed what happened in maricopa county and found about 50,000 disaffected republicans. who voted down ballot for lots of republican candidates but left the president rm nomination blank or voted for biden. they found disaffected democrats that voted down party democrats and not for mr. biden but not nearly to the same extent. what they found was that tilted many republican dominant districts in maricopa county to

president biden. places where republicans had a registration advantage but because so many of them were as they said disaffected and didn't vote for the president or voted for another candidate that he lost in those precincts. >> charlie in a normal time, not what we are living in, but in a normal time that would be such valuable data. right? go as a party and examine how ignoring the covid-19 pandemic, how lying about your own diagnosis affected your ability to sit atop a ticket and do worse than the people under you. donald trump could never accept republicans on the ballot that got a vote and not him. >> usual when the party did an autopsy after the 2012 electns ? there's no similar autopsy but if there was wouldn't that be at

the heart and soul of the question? for the republicans. why are so many republican voters turned off by donald trump? if you have a huge gap between republicans and the people willing to support trump what does that say about the party's decision to join itself at the hip with donald trump? is he the leader forever of the republican party? i think that that should be a blinking red light for republicans that, look, you're losing your own people. that there are people willing to support republican candidates but not trump. are you going to do this all over again? are you going to run as the trump party in 2022 and putting him at the top of the ticket again? and then -- >> speaking of blinking red lights, jason johnson, i want to

read you reporting that follows up on the points of sinema. about one of her backers there. former arizona attorney general woods that backed her election to the senate is now saying she doesn't belong in office unless she helps abolish the filibuster. quote i think that the senator and every senator support ending the filibuster. adding to keep the jim crow filibuster while losing some basic voting rights is propostrous. senator sinema should know that senator manchin. i'm hopeful they will do the right thing but if they don't i don't think they belong in the senate anymore. this is a supporter. you have got sort of a tragic group of people taking this view. major league is one of them. after the georgia law moving the all-star game. what about that idea that this is about an anti-democratic wave

of bills that you can't -- they've been enacted too fast. 22 signed into law. this legislation is the only one. if you see senators feeling the heat from both parties in their home states do you think that changes the conversation? >> it should because i believe that this former backer is -- former backer is a former republican. right? >> yeah, yes. >> the very people that propelled senator sinema into office as the not traditional democrat are saying you are screwing up american democracy. this is what is key and every person with an opportunity to talk to or interview senator manchin or senator sinema should be saying. okay. you don't want to eliminate the filibuster. fine. but reforming the filibuster is something that is well within reason and that's where i think

both of these senators have been able to wiggle. you can just say, we want to change the filibuster back to where it was 15 years ago with a double dare physical challenge and if you wanted to filibuster something you had to stand on stage and talk. because i have said if the filibuster is something to physically talk, the only people to do it is ted cruz and josh hawley and maybe rand paul. there is no way mitch mcconnell will stand up to fight against fighting rights. you don't want to get rid of it but there are plenty of options in between. you're not happy with the for the people act, what suggestion do you have? those are the kinds of questions. these kind of frustrations from former supporters are the kinds of questions that the senators should be asked because if they are consistently it will make it

harder to maintain what's otherwise a ridiculous position. >> speaking of ridiculous, i want to sort of get you, charlie, bullwork is out front on this and the undercurrent, the thread that ties it together is republican party turning into an anti-democratic movements in the world. at the forefront was that lawsuit. signed on by more than 100 house republicans. it laid the foundation for the event of january 6. i want to read you something about what's happening to the texas politician who spearheaded it. texas bar association probing the attorney general's effort to overturn the election. the state bar of texas will reconsider whether paxton made false or misleading statements. claiming that former president

trump lost because of fraud. paxton could be cleared or face penalties including suspension or disbarment. we are talking about democracy and big problems but if it becomes a professional liability, if you can no longer do the thing you went to school for for pushing the big lie it seems to fall into lawsuits using the remedys that are available to hold bad actors accountable. >> i think that any of the remedies need to be employed. in that particular case i am less disturbed by the fact that the texas attorney general filed the lawsuit than the republican congressmen signed on because that is signing on to a completely obviously bogus lawsuit designed to overturn the election but it's time for reality check here. hr 1 is dead. joe manchin and kirsten sinema

who are not the only democrats taking this position and time for the leadership to get very serious about passing something. i guess i'm into one basket of one piece of legislation that's too big and i don't think designed to pass the senate but the need to pass something is urgent for the reasons you have been describing. one of the things we wrote about today is that democrats really do need to address the counting of the votes. hr 1 and the john lewis bill don't address the elephant in the room which is how electoral votes are counted and i do think that at some point we need to go back and say what's the worst-case scenario of 2024 with the legislatures overturning the popular vote or congress refusing to certify electoral

votes sent there? and the reality is that the law on the books right now is a complete mess. it is a joke. and if nothing else democrats do need to put things on the floor that can pass as opposed to doing this because frankly sin em and manchin are not changing the position because they're not the only democrats who feel this way. >> let me just press you then. do you think that -- it is a tragedy that we need a new law to make sure that the actual votes get counted. i don't disagree that's where we are as a country. do you think they'd support that? >> i don't know. i don't know. i think at this point you put the legislation that is the most popular, that is the strongest up and force republicans to vote and then maybe go back to manchin saying how about a carveout on something like this?

not getting rid of the filibuster. can we do a very narrow carveout on this but try and i think it borders on political malpractice they haven't tried to do this stuff until now. >> it's so sad. talking about trimming our sails to save democracy. but that is where we are. ryan, thank you for starting us off from arizona. jason and charlie are sticking around. what is your fist reaction seeing the 500 million pfizer vaccine doses to donate to the world? your response may tell us what's currently hardwired in you. we'll explain. hearing today of the firsthand account of what happened in the halls of the capitol january 6. clear and emotional evidence that fbi director wray was asked to explain today. his answer, well, it is complicated he said. plus a real law and order

candidate taking on marco rubio in the senate on the big lie and just the first day of her campaign. all those stories and more when we continue after a quick break. ok everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. great tasting ensure with 9 grams of protein, 27 vitamins and minerals, and nutrients to support immune health. we've got you taken care of, sgt. houston. thank you. that was fast! one call to usaa got her a tow, her claim paid... ...and even her grandpa's dog tags back. get a quote.

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we are a nation full of people who step up at times of need to help our fellow human beings both at home and abroad. we are not perfect but we step up. this is about our responsibility. our humanitarian obligation to save as many lives as we can and our responsibility to our

values. we value the dignity of all people. >> that was president biden after announcing that his administration will buy 500 million doses of a pfizer covid vaccine and donate them to 100 countries over the next year. the white house was able to secure the deal in time for president biden's european trip and hopes to repair the relationships that sour in the last four years and after pressure from other nations to share the vaccine. our friend charlie sykes says it's a political rorschach test for americans why what was your first reaction? did you think, hey, this is what makes america good and great? or, why should we care because america first? charlie is back and pbs alcidor traveling with president biden. this is the most interesting thing i read this morning and looking for feedback. what have you been hearing?

>> i was listening to your show yesterday talking about this and he described this as a modern day marshal plan and when i got the idea to write about this because it struck me this, how you react to this tells you what you believe and it really helps define what we think america should be all about. so you inspired that. overwhelmingly my listeners say that they thought it was a -- that this is a sign that america is good and great. but a sizable minority said why only 500 million? is that really enough? >> huh. >> if we are going to do this maybe we should go bigger because it's a big world out there. i thought that was an interesting response, as well. that people understand the scope of it. the people also get the sense that yes it is being good and humanitarian but also in our interests to lead again, to establish these diplomatic ties

and because it is in the interest, this is a global pandemic and as long as you have an air born pandemic in the world that's a threat to us so this is enlightened self interest. >> yeah. that conversation and a.b. stoddard, as well and mike memoli and eugene daniels and i think this is the biden doctrine. at home and abroad. he's not baited by the debates of the twitter moment. it is not that he doesn't read twitter. his bet is that you deliver why you deliver and that's how you are sort of able to show outputs and that is his bed here at home and why they don't get drawn into the political noise and his bet internationally. >> it is absolutely his bet and a bet to make domestically and

internationally and when pressing biden officials ahead of the trip to say how will you convince european allies that that is the american way and this last four years of trump some ways a shift away from what is the true core of american beliefs and they said by showing that america leads and will be taking the lead coming to fighting the virus. what you heard from president biden today was him saying it is our responsibility as americans to step up. he said very clearly we are not perfect, nodding in some ways to the issues at home with the gridlock and january 6 and the things still dealing with as americans but made it clear with that drama, with all the issues we still are the leaders of this world when it comes to showing people here's what you do for the least among you and nodded to the people wondering why should we care?

he said this is in the best interest of america because this is a virus spreading here in the uk. a variant started first seen in india and will continue to be an issue if we as a society and he said as a world don't get the pandemic under control here. so i think president biden was both saying this is part of the american values and also how we keep americans safe and show america that america is back and there is skepticism about that here among european leaders but i think they are also saying, okay, here's biden with a plan and a strategy. >> it is so interesting, charlie. you do start to see this sort of biden doctrine taking place. if you piece together the right dots and they are always obvious, not always shiny objects but his view of all the spending because i pressed various officials. always that it is about

competitiveness against china and standing up to the adversaries strong at home and they have blunted the sort of standard republican attacks and i think this idea that the vaccines, the reaction you have, you have a diverse sort of ideological spectrum but no one's questioning that he did it. i like it or it should be more. it does suggest he's succeeded in reframing the debates. >> on this he has. this is a reminder of what america looks like when it is good and when it is compassionate and also leads. it looks strong. i think that that is a reference to the marshal plan was really responsibility because this took place after world war ii and the most unsordid act in world history when the united states decided to help rebuild europe.

not about welfare society but about compassion and strength at the same time. and so we -- after four years of looking at the rest of the world with disdain and thinking that america first is somehow to make fortress america we are seeing this strictly transactional terms. we'll do this but you have to pay for it. this i think is refreshing because it reminds people what genuine american greatness feels like and looks like. i think americans said this makes us proud that we are doing this and that's the different kind of pride than being sold over the last four years. >> this is something -- i understand very well. americans like to feel like the world likes us. i know this from working for a president whose post-9/11 policies were extremely

controversial the world over. i want to read some pew polls how people view president biden around the world. 75% expressed conferred in president biden compared to 17% last year. trump scared the bejesus out of me and all but 17% of these respondents. >> that's right. talking to experts trying to explain i covered nato and g7 with trump. i said what does a normal summit look like? they said it doesn't look like what you experienced. the elbowing of leaders why not what should be done in the organizations but to exist. european leaders were frankly scared, deep scars in the

relationships and that's why you see president biden leaning in to what america can do and the ideals and should be proud of. historically where america has been and one thing they underscore is looking at american democracy whether it's republicans or democrats they have a feeling of america being a leader. and that was lost for a large part coming to president trump so hostile and mean to the european allies and still big questions whether or not president biden just in being here can do that. deep scars are really something that takes i have been told by experts years and many leaders looking at america for a long time wondering what is going on with that democracy. might take several election cycles to do the sum of work of restoring trust in america that president biden wants to do with

this trip. >> you pack more reporting in to one block than just about anybody i know. we'll continue to bother you as you're many time zones away. i think we are even now, charlie. thank you both. up next, fbi director wray today says we should anticipate more charges related to the january 6 insurrection but trying to answer questions about how and why it happened is proving a bit more complicated he says. that story is next. ping nationw, and returns right from the doorstep. it's a whole new world out there. let's not keep it waiting.

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it was an insurrection. you know? it was a significant amount of people that felt agrieved and felt that invading the capitol to impose their will was an appropriate action. it looked like a sort of hoard of zombies. people as far as you can see salivating. >> at this point that is the best kind of testimonial to hear. aufrss who were there on the front lines offering clarity to what led to and happened on january 67 and fbi director wray under grilling unable to explain whether an intelligence failure, a law enforcement failure, perhaps both that led to an unprecedented assault on the democracy. rather wray called it

complicated which it is but perhaps that is the best argument yet for bipartisan commission to investigate. watch. >> did the fbi have information about the violent threat that occurred on january 6 on january 5. >> well, the answer is complicated usual so we have talked about a little bit this morning. >> it shouldn't be complicated. you had information or you didn't. >> so there's different kinds of information. we had online chatter we just talked act and the so falled norfolk situational information report has that but what we did not have to my knowledge -- >> did you pass that investigation on to chief sund? >> on to the capitol police in three different ways. >> joining us now pete strzok and author of compromised and

jason johnson is steal with us. pete, help people how chatter from the norfolk officer that turns out to be present and what happened isn't always the case. >> i think he is saying a couple things. there was information available to the fbi and anybody reading the internet that there was a lot of chatter about a violent set of activities to go on january 6. and in this case coming out of the fbi they putt this together in a report published by email to a variety of law enforcement partners and the capitol police. some of this is like people saying i didn't read the weather report but if you look outside and the skies are dark and you see lightning and hear thunder you don't need the weatherman to

tell you that it will rain and not to minimize whether the fbi did everything it should have but it is -- there are a lot of nuanced issues to this event but there's warning for everybody that there's a chance of violence on the 6th. >> pete, i will press you on nuanced. if the norfolk memo or report was about al qaeda would it be treated differently? is it because it's a trump supporter? >> there are real issues that the fbi needs to examine and i'm certain going on in the halls of the building right now and also important for outside bodied to ask the questions, as well.

what you mentioned. were there sufficient resources that might have provided additional warning? was there information to be collected by the fbi and provided to the law enforcement? are the fbi's regulations interpreted appropriately in terms of what they can and can't do online and monitor on twitter are not? are additional laws needed? these are the sort of questions that need to be asked and absolutely the kinds of questions addressed through the commission. >> i want do go back to some reporting from post-9/11 because one of then fbi director mueller's missions to never again not connect the dots why this is from abc news may 15th, 2002. an agent in arizona alerted washington headquarters that several mid easterners were training and recommended contacting other schools

nationwide where arabs might be studying. discuss this mat ere with other elements of the u.s. intelligence community and task the community for information to support the suspicions. the agent recommended. this was a -- i bring this up because i think you've just articulated the impediment. when a field office learns something to follow up on, after 9/11 we vowed to never have this happen again. right? that's a reform that a 9/11 commission flushed out. they educated the public. this was explored and investigated. without a commission will we ever explore or understand why the chatter about war, that the norfolk fbi office sent up to washington resulted in nothing? >> i don't know. that's a great reason to have a commission. there is nothing like institutions can look at themselves and improve themselves but nothing does that

better than an outside commission or entity asking the questions and recommending things. the frustrating thing is unlike 9/11 and the fbi under director mueller went under a radical reorganization. increasing the pace of the investigations. what was so frustrating about january 6 this wasn't a plot that was hidden known only to a couple fbi offices. >> right. >> everybody that picked up a paper leading to january 6 knew full well elements in america talking about violence and interpreting the certification and nobody should have been surprised this was coming. this information was there, available to earn and i think that's why so many of us were shocked to see what we saw january 6. >> no. you just -- roll the tape again and again and you can see people

were paralyzed. it was everywhere. including donald trump's twitter feed come to washington. thank you so much for this. really important to understand what's going on. jason is sticking around for more because up next for you congresswoman demings is taking on marco rubio for the senate. we'll preview what is sure to be a race to watch. tch. so then i said to him, you oughta customize your car insurance with liberty mutual, so you only pay for what you need.

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january 6th. i was there to watch the peaceful transfer of power when we know all hell broke loose. what we thought was just people demonstrating turned out to be an angry mob. found myself crawling around on the floor, donning a gas mask. now, we have an obligation to find out what happened, who was involved, how that happened, who funded it. who would not want that? but marco rubio voted against it because he doesn't -- obviously does not want to know the truth. >> that was congresswoman val demmings hours after announcing she's running for the florida senate, going after the occupant of that seat, marco rubio. she's not scared or daunted by the tough fight ahead, pointing

out the hypocrisy of rubio being in the capitol on january 6th, first acknowledging trump did bear some responsibility, then deciding he doesn't want to know anything else about what happened. let's bring into our conversation juanita toliver. jason's still here. she's a really powerful member of congress who would make a great senator for that state. she's also making one of the most important arguments that the country's going to hear in the midterms, and that is that the republican party is a danger to our security. you think it's going to work? >> i absolutely think it's going to dig up some ground in florida, and this argument about the insurrection is going to only be compounded with the argument about covid relief, which we know marco rubio also opposed and really telling that personal story, telling these deep connections that the impact of those decisions that he is making every time he cowers to trump, every time he does not put people first, is going to be a cornerstone of her campaign.

and i think that's going to resonate with voters, because that is not just in history. that's just six months ago, nicole. and i think coupling that story about the insurrection with the real impact that covid had on these communities across florida is going to be important, especially as we know, rubio's going to proactively try to throw the regular type of attacks at her as he has with other democrats, calling her a socialist, calling her too liberal, but when she's a motorcycle-riding former police chief who knows florida well and is from florida, that's not going to stick here. and i think she's going to continue to beat those drums, not only in her personal story but also in her time on the hill and this campaign trail. >> yeah, i mean, the republican playbook in florida is to tout the kind of messages, jason, that juanita just mentioned, to call someone a socialist. they're not going to work on her. and i also want to ask you to speak -- i banished on this show this foregone conclusion about

what's going to happen in the midterms. if val demmings makes that threat about the threat that marco rubio contributes to by not wanting to understand the threat of domestic violent extremism in our own country, you could see a repeat of the 2002 cycle where the threat of 9/11 was still on people's minds. what do you make of her opening interview there with my colleague, joy, and of this contest as it's shaping up? >> well, i will begin by saying this. i think val demmings is a very good politician, and that's not something i can say about everybody who was in office. she was on my bingo card for a potential vp. she's she's a very good politician, commanding, interesting, has a great personal story. she has gravitas, like, actual gravitas. i've been in the room with her. so this is not going to be an issue of political weakness. but what we have to understand is the landscape of florida itself. you are on a -- this is like a tilted pool board at this particular time. she's on the most slanted side

with desantis running the state, you can't trust where votes are going to come in and what people are going to get access to so in a neutral field, she'd be able to beat marco rubio. i'd be willing, in a neutral field, i would be willing to make that prediction now but it is not a neutral field, so what's going to have to happen is not only is she going to have to run a flawless campaign, which is almost impossible, but the democratic party as a whole, you're going to have to battle marco rubio, desantis, and donald trump next year. and if the party is interested in putting the money and resources into that state, then she could be competitive. but if they're not, she will lose, because you cannot trust the electoral system in the state of florida to actually represent what the people want as opposed to what the powers that be have tried to maintain. >> that's such a good point, especially considering where you and i started, jason, this hour. juanita tolliver, jason johnson, thank you so much for spending time with us today. to be continued for us here. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a very short break.

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no matter how fast you are... no-one outruns their past. been a long time dom. -little brother. maybe this is the end. but if we go out... we go out together. this is my first overseas trip as president of the united states. i'm heading to the g7, then to the in the ministerial and then to meet with mr. putin to let him know what i want him to know. >> hi again, everyone, it's 5:00 in the east a sure-footed president biden there ready to meet with russian president vladimir putin, a man he's called a killer before and a man he told to his face he believes

has no soul. while the two have met previously, next week's meeting in geneva marks the first time biden will do so as president of the united states and will be one of the first major tests of his foreign policy agenda. the russian president already sending messages ahead of the summit. from the "new york times" report, quote, the russian court on wednesday designated alexey navalny's political movement as an extremist network, a remarkable move that sent a message to president biden ahead of his meeting next week with president vladimir putin. russian domestic affairs are not up for discussion. that move, very calculated, as our friend and former u.s. ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul noted, tweeting this. putin easily could have chosen to take this action after meeting with biden in geneva. he deliberately did it before. biden wrote in the "washington post" that he wants a stable and predictable relationship with russia. putin does not. he is deliberately provoking biden with this move. yet biden remains undeterred, his team out today with

assurances that their meeting is still full steam ahead and the president has a clear objective when he meets with his russian counterpart. here's white house communications director kate bedding field on "morning joe" earlier today. >> president biden has been doing diplomacy on the world stage for all of his career. he's known president putin for a long time so this is going to be a direct conversation. he's going to raise a lot of the issues where we have real differences and real concerns. of course, that includes human rights. that includes incursion on the ukrainian border. that includes cyberattacks and the responsibility that russia has when malign actors in their country are executing the kinds of attacks that we've seen of late. so these are all issues he's going to raise but he's also going to talk about places of consensus. >> this meeting coming at the end of president biden's eight-day overseas trip was planned strategically, nbc news reports. it isn't by accident that biden will spend nearly a week meeting with america's closest allies before his summit in geneva with

putin. national security advisor jake sullivan said the timing is intended so biden can head into the putin meeting with the wind at his back. but there's also another backdrop to next week's summit. the jaw-dropping meeting and news conference putin had with biden's predecessor, the disgraced ex-guy, nearly three years ago when the current administration very much wants to distance itself from. "the washington post" reports, quote, the underlying goal is to demonstrate a sharp pivot from trump's public deference to putin, which was on display when the two met in helsinki in 2018. "the post" also notes, quote, biden's aides were at pains this week to assert that even though biden initiated the meeting, it did not amount to a reward for putin's misbehavior, as some republicans have suggested. a pretty rich comment from republicans, given the fact that when the leader of their party blatantly put russia and its interests above that of his own country's, republicans didn't seem to think there was much to criticize. and many did not publicly

denounce his comments. president biden set to assert himself on the world stage against one of our adversaries is where we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. retired u.s. navy admiral james, former in the supreme allied commander joins us. also joining us, frank figliuzzi is here, former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence, host of "the bureau" podcast. and the newest member of our family, tim miller, writer at large for the bulwark, now an msnbc contributor. admiral, i want to start with you on what russia has done ahead of this meeting, and they seem so belligerent. i asked ambassador mcfaul this question last week. they seem very much on the offense in terms of the brazenness of russian criminals and their hacks that affect our meat supply and our gas supply, but one that took place during the presidential transition that attacked executive branch agencies, including some with

national security responsibilities and now this designation of alexey navalny as an extremist. what have we done to make sure we're on a strong footing? >> the way to frame this is really to think of vladimir putin. i mean, he truly is a modern day czar. he'll rule russia until the day he dies. and the president correctly called him a killer. i would say vladimir putin is a hater. he deeply, truly, madly hates the united states of america. he hates nato. he believes the collapse of the soviet union was the greatest tragedy of the 20th century, which kind of ignores the holocaust, the second world war and a few other things. he channels that hatred by his activities as a spoiler on the international scene. you know, frankly, nicole, he doesn't have a great hand of cards. his economy is kind of a one trick pony, oil and gas.

his population is declining. he has a very weak network of allies and partners. but he plays a tactical hand, so you see the cyberattacks. you see the support for a war criminal like bashar al assad in syria. you see the activities on ukraine. i think we're positioning ourselves well here in terms of the president meeting with him, confronting him. there may be some zones of cooperation on the side, but step one here is look him in the eye, tell him what you think of him, and tell him what is unacceptable. >> i wonder what you think of all the taunting. is that for a russian domestic audience, sort of trolling the united states about the weaknesses in our own democracy, saying the 1/6 insurrectionists are being persecuted? who's he talking to? >> like all politicians, he has an internal audience that is very, very important to him.

he has a base. and his base is actually quite supportive of him. his approval ratings still remain in the 60%, 70% range, and yes, he plays to that internal audience, nicole. he also plays one layer out to the collection of allies such as they are, people like belarus and former soviet republics. he plays to that international audience, if you will. and finally, he plays to china. he wants xi to look at him as a world player, as someone who xi would want to work with. that's another aspect of this that the president will be discussing in the run-up to geneva with our allies is this growing diplo speak here, condominium between russia and china. those are the audiences to whom vladimir putin is playing. >> you know, frank, we've had so

many conversations about the disturbing dynamic, really, personally and in the way he acted and at the policy level between the ex-president and vladimir putin. i want to read you some "new york times" reporting about how that has left this president cleaning up his predecessor's mess. mr. putin has already signalled that he will reject any criticism of the kremlin's handling of the navalny case by claiming that the u.s. has no standing to lecture others. at russia's marquee annual economic conference in st. petersburg last week, putin repeatedly invoked the arrests of the capitol rioters in washington in january when pressed about belarus. take a look at the sad events in the u.s., putin said. why is it only our nonsystemic opposition that you are interested in? it just seems to be, you know, a final ding against the united states that the ex-president has

left us, left this president. >> yeah, you're absolutely right. understand the stark contrast that's going to go on here next week. for the past four years, vladimir putin has had virtually free license to do whatever he wishes on the world stage, including assassinate people. and so, now, he's going to be confronted with reality, truth, evidence, and a u.s. president who's not going to let that happen on his watch if he can stop it. and so, really, what i'm fascinated by is whether or not vladimir putin, as the admiral has correctly said, is playing to the domestic audience there and his regional allies but also the longer game, which is putin very much wants to continue sowing discord and disarray and chaos inside the united states, so the more he feels like he can weaken biden, make him look weak, see what i can do against a biden administration, see the hacks that i can pull off, see what i can do on the eve of a

summit with him, weaken him here in the u.s., creating more chaos so there's a positioning that might happen that a trump replacement or trump himself comes back in another form in another administration here. he's also playing the game. lastly, i'll say there are signs that he's in trouble. the banning of navalny's group is just further evidence that he's got tensions and problems at home. so if he says this is the enemy, america is the enemy, we all need to unite together here in the motherland against america, that helps him. so, i'm not very optimistic about a great summit here, other than to send a message and then let us look for some signs of hope about how it's characterized right afterwards. did they agree on something? a cyber extradition agreement? did they agree to launch a counterterrorism initiative somewhere? let's look for some signs of hope. otherwise, things are going to get really, really cold.

>> what does a different sort of american president's approach to someone like vladimir putin mean to vladimir putin? i mean, does he care that someone's going to walk -- i mean, because i understand this white house is also communicating to a domestic audience. we're going to go in there, we're going to be direct. that's how they're really sort of defending the invitation to putin to meet. but does it have any bearing on vladimir putin when an american president says to him, frank? >> well, understand, he can spin this very, very well at home, so we -- his people may not truly know how this happened, what happened in the room. he'll spin it. he's increasingly suppressing and controlling the media in his favor. but word will get out, and the biden message and whatever biden says afterwards will start penetrating society. so, the answer is, yes, he does care to a degree. he certainly doesn't want to get embarrassed. he's going to try to take the

upper hand and then he'll spin it very strongly afterwards. >> tim miller, i'm not going to play it but i want to remind everybody what the disgraced ex-president said in helsinki that sent shock waves through even a numb republican party. this was from july 16, 2018. he was standing next to vladimir putin, and he said this. my people came to me, dan coats came to me, some others and said they think it's russia. this was about election meddling in 2016. i have president putin. he says it's not russia. i say this. i don't see any reason why it would be, but i really do want to see the server. i have great confidence in my intelligence people but i'll tell you, president putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today. now, i'm going to name names of the people who heard that and criticized putin but not the disgraced ex-president. richard burr, bill cassidy, tom

cotton, james language ford, mike lee, john cornyn, marco rubio, john thune, and kevin mccarthy. so, donald trump said that. he took putin's side over dan coats, who also happened to be a republican that many of those names i just named knew. and this president hasn't had the meeting yet and they're already criticizing him. and i know the answer. there's no depth to republican hypocrisy but do you think the attacks land with anybody? they have zero credibility. >> you know, i wish that i could say the answer to that is no, nicole, but you know that there is an entire media ecosystem out there that are just delivering this to. i remember from 2018 -- i guess it was 2018 -- and we were beginning our focus groups in the lead-up to the republican voters against trump initiative, and sara that was running the focus groups asked, the day after helsinki to these soft trump voters that we were trying to win over what they thought about the comments that you just

read and most of them hadn't heard them. they were getting their news from, at the best case, fox. or facebook or newsmax and you can go all the way down the list. so, there's this echo chamber that these folks live in, and that is who, you know, the tom cottons of the world are talking to. and so, i do think that those attacks will have a little bit of resonance, you know, within that bubble. the question is whether, i think, biden can show the strength to continue where i think he's been successful to date, holding on to these swing voters that are looking for, you know, the traditional reagan foreign policy. that was what drew them to republicans in the first place, and they moved over and voted for joe biden in enough numbers to get him in there. i think that if he says what jake sullivan and others say he's going to say next week, then he will have a message that resonates with the key audience, but that doesn't mean that what

marco and all those jokers are doing doesn't have impact. it does. >> it is such a stunning, though, moment, tim, to talk about the republicans, and i like your word. i'll use it back to you. jokers. i mean, they turned the party into a joke on questions of national security, which is not how the party sees itself. but you make a point about the opportunity this president has. if he can deprive republicans of credibility and seriousness on matters of national security with a big swath of the middle of independent voters registered either as democrats or republicans but who sort of pay attention to world events, that does seem like not just a national security opportunity but a political opportunity for him. >> yeah, i think so for sure, nicole. it isn't ancient history, right, that there was this bipartisan consensus in the country and in washington about what a president was supposed to do abroad, how a president was supposed to act against a despot, someone who attacks and maligns our democracy like

putin. you know, how a president's supposed to act in the lead-up before that with the g7 and building up our allies, i mean, you know, it is only 2012 where there was a big swath of members of both parties who were, you know, they disagree on the particulars, but singing this same tune about american leadership in the world. the republicans have abdicated that because of donald trump, and i do think it's a national security and a political opportunity for this president if he can appeal to those voters by really just doing what he's been doing his whole career, which he used to be able to stand shoulder to shoulder with the lindsey grahams of the world in articulating these values, american values abroad, whether speaking with allies or adversaries. and now they've left that entire space to him, and so i think that that is an opportunity for him and hopefully he can live up to that over the next week. i think he will. >> admiral, the president's strategy is to sort of stand with and bolster and be bolstered by the world's

democracies before he heads in to meet with putin. is that effective? and how will we know if we've been effective if sort of confronting putin about his behavior has been sort of a message received? >> i would say it is unquestionably very effective to do. the greatest comparative advantage we have in the world is this exquisite network of allies, partners, and friends, starting with nato. the president will be at a nato summit. here's an organization, 30 nations, it's 52% of the world's gdp, 3 million men and women under arms. when i was supreme allied commander, i could pick up the phone and sortie 28,000 military aircraft, 800 ocean going ships. the budget -- let's do a dollar assessment here. the budget of nato, collectively, u.s. and europe, is around $900 billion.

the defense budget of russia is $90 billion. we outspend -- we, the alliance, ten to one. so, yeah, he's got the right strategy here. and how are we going to know? you know, back to what we were talking about a moment ago. putin will continue to play this spoiler role. i think the higher level conversation the president is going to try and bring home to our allies is, yeah, we'll keep the pressure on putin. the long game here is china, and the fact that china and russia are drawing closer together, that will be a real topic of conversation in brussels and something to watch. >> admiral james stavridis, we will continue to call on you. tim miller, thank you both for target us off this hour. frank figliuzzi is sticking around a little longer with us. when we return, the transcript of former who is counsel don mcgahn's testimony before the house judiciary committee removes any doubt, if there was any, that the

disgraced ex-president indeed obstructed justice. so, what happens now? why the case for prosecuting trump is gaining momentum next. plus, a new twist in the mystery of the so-called havana syndrome. the debilitating brain injuries plaguing dozens of u.s. officials and why the south and its low, low rates of covid vaccinations is threatening to become a danger to itself. and most worrying, the rest of the country. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ontinues teafr a quick break. don't go anywhere. ♪ birds flyin' high you know how i feel ♪ ♪ breeze drifting on by you know how i feel ♪ [man: coughing] ♪ it's a new dawn, it's a new day... ♪ no matter how you got copd it's time to make a stand. ♪ ...and i'm feelin' good ♪ start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function. it also helps prevent future flare-ups.

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was there sufficient evidence to convict president trump or anyone else with obstruction of justice?

>> we did not make that calculation. >> how could you not have made the calculation with the regulations -- >> the olc opinion, office of legal counsel, indicates that we cannot indict a sitting president. so one of the tools that a prosecutor would use is not there. >> could you charge the president with a crime after he left office? >> yes. >> you believe that he committed -- you could charge the president of the united states with obstruction of justice after he left office? >> yes. >> it's remarkable. yes. but just revisiting that exchange and the aftermath of yesterday's testimony or yesterday's transcript release of don mcgahn's testimony before congress, because that transcript makes it abundantly clear. any honest conversation surrounding donald trump's conduct in office centers not on whether you think he criminally obstructed justice but whether you care that he absolutely, positively did. so, given what robert mueller said there, what now? is it time to prosecute him? he's out of office. mueller said yes. it's a question at the center of

a really provocative and important new series in the "boston globe," one that asks that proofing, the american presidency, the office, in trump's wake. from that editorial, quote, trump's presidency didn't just expose glaring legal weaknesses. it also made clear that our institutions are incapable of holding presidents accountable for breaking even our existing laws. if congress had played the role the founders envisioned by removing trump from the presidency after his criminality became clear in the ukraine affair, that might have been enough of a deterrent to scare future presidents straight, but lawmakers did not. so, now, there's only one way left to restore deterrents and convey to future presidents that the rule of law applies to them. the justice department must abandon two centuries of tradition by indicting and prosecuting donald trump for his conduct in office. joining us now is senior opinion writer for the "boston globe"

and an msnbc contributor, kim atkins. i want to hear from both of you about this series and the case that's being made, but i'll start with you, kim, because we had so many conversations and just to button up the significance of the mcgahn testimony, it's not as though we needed more proof that criminal obstruction of justice took place. it was detailed and the transcripts of don mcgahn were transcribed in the mueller report for anyone to read. but it does strike me that his showing up so far after any opportunity for congress to do anything was part of the maniacal strategy that trump's white house and justice department had all along. >> it absolutely was. i mean, the reason that we are only seeing the transcripts of this testimony as of last night is because the justice department fought tooth and nail with congress in the attempt by

lawmakers to bring mcgahn to testify, not just before lawmakers but before the american public on exactly what happened. donald trump tried to expand the applicable law of executive privilege so far beyond where it was intended that it really served to stall this long enough to, again, allow him to evade responsibility. and that is at the center of this series by the globe's editorial board. if there were other levers of accountability in place, and there were, but many of them were toothless, donald trump managed to expose every one, and so it lays out all the ways that congress needs to act and the department of just needs to act to close those loopholes, to force presidents to be held accountable because if accountability is an -- if there is that deterrent, then this won't happen again. but as long as things remain as they are, it absolutely could,

or we can get someone's transgressions that are even worse. >> abdullah, what i thought about, when i read the piece, and it's so brilliant in its grounding in the rule of law and what's been lost, it's not just our founders who would be, i think, horrified at what has been sort of perverted and distorted but you don't even have to go back that far. you look at watergate where republicans were able to be compelled by facts of criminality, and it seems that that is where our current laws and policies do not serve any commitment to the rule of law. >> yeah, that's exactly right, nicole, and thanks for having me on. you know, with watergate and richard nixon, there's especially one key difference between that and the trump era, and that's the ability to feel shame. one thing that allowed trump to get away with so much is that he was utterly shameless and just pushed through all the, you

know, norm breaking and law breaking acts of his white house and all the investigations and just, you know, power through it and he got away with it. and so, that's why this is really important to still go after, even after he's out of office. you know, i understand that a lot of americans want to move on from trump and never look back. i mean, you know, it's -- it was a very norm-breaking, norm-busting time. each day presented, as you very well know, a new crisis or two, and it was incredibly overwhelming, but you know, we can't just move on from the trump era without studying exactly what went wrong and how it went wrong. and if we do that, that would be profoundly irresponsible. we were shown that there are loopholes in our constitutional system. we've been shown just how weak our checks and balances are against a tyrannical president, and so it's our obligation as

journalists, as voters, as, you know, lawmakers in congress to actually address that and fix that, and that's really why we wrote this series, to urge lawmakers, you know, beyond the doj prosecuting trump if they have enough evidence, but to urge lawmakers to pass a set of reforms to restrain future presidents from abusing their power, and if congress fails to do that, then you know, the end of american democracy's in our lifetime, and i don't say that just to, you know, be hyperbolic or alarmist about this. i say this because, you know, already, we're seeing the erosion of american democracy accelerate after trump left office, state after state after state, the republican legislatures, you know, just going after our voting rights, and congress, with the help of joe manchin, refusing to protect us. and refusing to protect voting rights. and so the next trump -- and i want to be very clear about this -- the next trump that

could be trump himself in 2024 or a far more competent authoritarian leader, you know, will have a much easier time usurping american democracy because right now, the road map has been laid out for them very clearly. >> and you will be one of the people, if that happens, who, you know, whoever comes down and discovers the remnants of this era in time capsules, who predicted it and saw how it was all going to play out. i want to read some more from your -- from the really important editorial. you guys write this. after the precedent-busting presidency of donald trump, congress needs to pass new laws to constrain future office holders. that's the case the globe has made in this series, curb some pardon power, broadening the power of congress to investigate the president, protections for whistle-blowers, requirements

that presidents make financial disclosures to root out conflicts of interest. all of that is crucial to protect americans against a repeat of the last four years. abdallah, i think we need to dive into these separately but let's just take a couple, pardon power and nepotism. i'm surprised he didn't combine the two in the end. placing his son-in-law and daughter inside that inner sank sanctum, that was the problem of every chief of staff and reince priebus, john kelly, they tried in varying degrees to get this president to sort of adhere to some the norms, i won't even say rule of law, it's not clear they had that much sway with him, but it would be very easy to -- we can do something about this. i mean, it's not a prosecute donald trump for obstruction for

being named individual one in sdny for the criminal campaign finance case that sent michael cohen to jail. you can choose a future where the president's corrupt and unqualified son-in-law and daughter don't run the country. do you think there's any enthusiasm behind passing nepotism laws or curbs to a president's power? >> thanks for that question. this is something we wanted to make clear throughout the series. reforming and restraining future presidents ought to be a bipartisan cause. this isn't a partisan issue. corruption doesn't know a single party. the next trump might be a democrat. obviously, the two parties aren't equal, and there's an asymmetry in which one actually wants to abandon democracy and that's the republican party, so it's likely that the next tyrant will be a republican, but you know, it's very possible that a corrupt president be a democrat, so republicans ought to be very

interested in restraining future presidents from abusing their power. otherwise, they'll be, as well, locked out of the system, and we will see american democracy end. so, you know, nepotism is really important when it came to donald trump's presidency. i mean, the american people suffered. one thing we said in the series was that our government survived a scrape with authoritarianism but the reality is many of us didn't survive. by some estimates, nearly a million americans died from the coronavirus pandemic, and that's in part because jared kushner, donald trump's son-in-law, was, you know, leading, in part, part of the leadership behind the government's coronavirus response team with no prior experience. he was a real estate businessman. what was this guy doing leading our pandemic response? and now hundreds of thousands of lives are lost. and those people will not get a second chance. you know, for those of us who remain and are lucky enough to still vote, we have to act on this now. if we don't, then, you know,

this -- this is -- it's really urgent to do it now. if we don't, we're going to see another authoritarian come and even improve on trump's ability to undermine democracy within our lifetime. maybe even by 2024. >> yeah, i mean, someone with an attention span could actually -- and an equally corrupt inner core could actually do even more damage. i would like to ask you both to come back. i mean, i think that what you write about financial disclosures, it's an easy fix, and it sounds like cy vance has trump's taxes. we don't need them. but you're right, to make sure wetu, there are new fears about the havana syndrome and whether our enemies might be weaponizing technology intended for a very different purpose. that story is next. or a very di purpose. that story is next for members like martin.

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as the mystery deepens over the so-called havana syndrome, those sudden attacks that have caused brain injuries and other ailments in dozens of u.s. diplomats and intelligence officers, u.s. officials are now shifting their concerns to trying to understand how our adversaries may be exploiting it. an intelligence assessment by the biden administration could not determine what causes the injuries or who's behind them. but some officials suspect that

the side effects, which are thought to be by-products of foreign efforts to collect intelligence from government employees' devices, could now be weaponized and used to cause physical harm. more than 130 people from across our government have had possible symptoms of havana syndrome with 60 to 80 coming from inside d.o.d. on that note, let's bring in nbc news pentagon correspondent courtney kube, frank figliuzzi is also with us. courtney, what are you learning? >> you mentioned the 60 to 80 here within d.o.d. and we should point out that just in the last month, one former d.o.d. employee came forward with experiencing some sort of symptoms of this. so, this continues to go on. this investigation. more and more people continue to come forward. it's more than 130 who have come forward. not all those people have been substantiated. there's some cases where they figured out it was something else that caused their mysterious sickness and illness, but some of them, they do

believe, may have been exposed so what we're talking about here is the intelligence community, this initial assessment is ininclusive. they don't know what is causing this. they don't know what's behind it either but the officials i spoke with, they are saying that now there is more and more thought that it's possible this wasn't necessarily, at the beginning, a directed attack or a directed energy attack. that it is possible that, in fact, this may have been some sort of a surveillance mechanism or some sort of way of gathering information from some of these individuals' personal devices, their cell phones and things, and that something about the rays or the waves or the energy that was beaming towards them as they were trying to gather their information or steal information from them, it sickened them. so, this theory is not new. you know, people have been talking about it for some time, but what surprised carol and i was that the officials were talking about it in more of a way that now even if it was not

originally intended to be a directed energy attack against these individuals, the concern is that, well, now, whomever is behind this may have realized they have this ability to sicken people and they may try to weaponize whatever this effort. so, that's really, you know, this is such a confusing story. even trying to explain it, nicole, is very confusing because there's so little that we know about what's behind this or who's behind it. there was a time a couple years ago where officials were saying to us that they believe russia is behind it and now they are very quick to say, well, that's a theory, but we don't know that for sure. so, you know, still way more questions than we have answers on this entire case, nicole. >> frank figliuzzi, either scenario, either beaming something into devices to steal all the data and/or doing so to hurt people's brains, are they both aggressive acts? are they acts of war? >> so, the moment that this turned from intelligence

collection into weaponization and offensive attacks deliberately against u.s. personnel, indeed, it could be considered an act of war, and in fact, one of the things that president biden might want to be discussing with the allies during his trip overseas is whether our allies also have experienced the same thing with their intelligence personnel hosted abroad. and quite frankly, while i know it's delicate, there's really no harm in him posing a question to vladimir putin when they meet next week, not in an accusatory way, but rather to see what his response is, rather by asking, have your intelligence personnel, your diplomats around the world been reporting something like this? just to see what his response is to that question would be fascinating, i think. but i know this. and i want to say this clearly in support of the men and women who are suffering from these attacks. this is for real. i know a lot of folks are out there going, come on. this -- this is bizarre, right?

this isn't happening. and i know people involved in this program. it is for real. and i think the question really for us is, was it jamming communications? because the people i talked to say this could have been collateral damage either from attempting to jam encrypted communications or intercept communications, but either way, it has turned offensive. and it's -- there's far more here than meets the eye, nicole. this is across europe, across asia, now allegedly on u.s. soil right outside the white house with national security personnel. we have to get to the bottom of this. the national academy of sciences says it's directed microwave energy. let's figure this out. the men and women who serve the country deserve better than a head-scratching mystery. we got to take care of them. >> we will stay on it to that note. courtney kube, i appreciate your and carol's new reporting on this and i appreciate you, frank, for talking to us about

it. thank you both. when we return, with so much of the country entering post-pandemic life, the lagging rate of vaccinations in red states, many of them in the deep south, could spell big trouble down the road. that story's next. ould spell bie down the road. that story's next.

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[sizzling] i may not be able to tell time, but i know what time it is. [whispering] it's grilled cheese o'clock. in the vaccination fight against the coronavirus, the data tell a pretty harrowing, albeit predictable story of where we're making real progress and where we've seemingly

stalled out due to vaccine hesitancy, disinformation, and pure politics. all of it could keep us, as a country, from reaching president biden's goal of getting 70% of all u.s. adults at least partially vaccinated by the fourth of july. most blue states won by president biden last year have already hit that goal of 70% or they're very close to doing so. but in the 17 states with the lowest numbers of adults at least partially vaccinated, besides georgia, trump won every one of them last year. joining us now, dr. peter hotez, codirector of the childrens center for vaccine development, the founding dean of the national school of tropical medicine at baylor college and author of the book, "preventing the next pandemic" and i'll add another title, tip of the spear against vaccine disinformation. i feel like you've been waving your arms and jumping up and down and warning this could happen if the disinformation about the vaccine wasn't combatted and sadly, that seems

to be where we are right now. >> yeah, nicole, and the gap seems to be widening every day. we've nations where we're fully vaccinating new england, the midatlantic states, california, new mexico, all blue or bluish states, and the deep south is vaccinating at about half that rate. so there's a huge vulnerability now to the southern part of the united states, and here's what i'm worried about. if you look at where we were at this time last year, we were at our nadir, and then around the july 4th holiday, we started to see the beginning of this massive surge in the south all through july and august into september that was really devastating. that was our big second wave after the first wave in new york, and i'm worried it's going to happen again. it could happen for two reasons, not only the low vaccination coverage but now, unlike last year, we have these new variants of concern. we already have the b.1.1.7 variant. now we have the delta variant from india.

we have the p-1 variant from brazil. so i'm holding my breath for what happens in the south this summer. i'm quite concerned. >> well, and hospitalizations are already rising, likely due to those two dynamics. dynamics. in "the new york times," in newton county, missouri, where 15% of the population are vaccinated, area hospital was treating 46 people for covid-19, a 47% rise over the last two weeks according to the department of human services. when you describe a tale of two countries, you could even between two states have a tale of two counties. are you sort of resolved that people who aren't convinced of the vaccine's safety never can be or do you think further -- i mean, what is the road ahead for getting more people to get vaccinated? >> so i still take the road that failure is not an option, that

we need just to work harder. we're not really, you know, addressing this. the biden administration is not really talking about it. i know it's uncomfortable to start talking about blue versus red or north versus south or conservative versus liberal. for a scientist like myself, i'm uncomfortable here talking about it, but i think it's what we need to do to save lives. remember who is going to get hit. it's going to be young people, young adults. it's going to be adolescents. if you look at the adolescent vaccination rates, you see this in louisiana or mississippi, it's under 10%. so there is this massive vulnerability. we have to work harder to reach out to conservative groups and do whatever it takes to make this happen. i'm doing the best that i can, but i can't do it alone. >> you're doing more than -- than just about anyone else i

know. i appreciate you coming here. doctor, thank you for coming here and spending time with us. when we return, a historic first as president biden works to balance out the federal judiciary. that story the next. that story the next. ♪♪ don't flex your pecs. terminix. ♪♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google, turn up the heat. ♪ ♪ ♪

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well, that was new. thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. we're grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi, nicole. here's what we have cooking on a big show. president biden announcing a massive covid marshall plan of sorts to help the whole world get vaccinated. it is a break with much of the foreign policy that talked about america first at the exclusion of other nation's needs at the trump administration. yes, ben and jerry return to the beat. if you watch the show nightly, we were excited to have them. breaking news intervened. they're here