♪♪ welcome to "meet the press daily." i'm kasie hunt in for chuck todd. in brussels, we are expecting to see president biden hold a press conference any minute now after a day of meetings with allies at today's nato summit. some relationships are rockier than others. that includes relations with turkey. president biden's meeting with president erdogan was one of the last things on his schedule before today's planned press conference. for the white house, there's an added layer of urgency surrounding the discussions, not just because of china or the american withdrawal from afghanistan. these meetings are also in a way preparation for that high steaks

face-to-face meeting with vladimir putin wednesday. biden hasn't spoken to putin yet. nbc's keir simmons has. we will have more of that coming up when the leaders agree the relations have hit a low point. at today's nato summit, president biden reaffirmed the collective agreement. it's one of the most important tools when it comes to countering u.s. adversaries. joining me now is mike memoli in brussels. also with us, david ignatius, helene cooper and richard engel. thank you for being with us this hour. mike, let me start with you on the ground there. for an update, how the day has gone so far. obviously, the show of force with our nato allies designed to set the stage for that showdown with vladimir putin later this

week. >> reporter: yeah, that's right. there's certainly always an air of unpredictability around these international summits. things seem to be running behind schedule. the last thing on the president's schedule was that meeting with the president of turkey, erdogan, and then a you are in -- a news conference. this attribute is a pivot point on the larger foreign trip. the president's stay in the uk for the g7 summit was more about the relationships rebuilding, the idea of america is back. the conversations got more complicated here, in terms of the substantive agenda, the u.s. withdrawing from afghanistan was sure to be a focus today and what happens next there. also the u.s. pushing our nato allies to expand the mission statement of this organization,

not just focused on russia, but to take on china and their rise as a key challenge in the 21st century. based on what we have seen in terms of the official statement that's just come out in the last hour from nato, it appears the white house has largely got what it wanted out of it. the nato secretary-general issuing a strong statement himself about the commitment of the allies here in focusing on china going forward. of course, all of this, all of the conversations that the president has been having over the last few days have been informing his own perspective as he looks ahead to that summit in geneva in two days. one of the very important conversations the president was having today was with the leaders of the baltic countries. as russia seeks to continue to expand its influence and also to expand its geography, frankly, it is the baltic states who have the most to fear. that was just one of many conversations the president having today to sort of arm him as the white house has been

putting it ahead of the summit in geneva. >> richard engel, let me go to you to touch briefly on what we just saw minutes ago, which was, of course, the pictures of president biden with the turkish president erdogan. there has been upheaval in the relationship, not least because the president has basically cast his entire trip as auto autocrats versus democrat says -- democracies. what did you see as we watched the meeting unfold? >> reporter: i'm in a public square and there's soccer matches going on. one of the teams got a goal and people are very excited. all across europe, people are starting to come out of lockdown, taking out to the

streets. people here aren't wearing masks anymore. the weather is great. there may be more goals to come and there may be more outbursts. in terms of the serious biz between biden and erdogan, this is most tense relations. turkey is an important country. getting nato -- getting turkey into the nato club was one of the main objectives when nato was established to set up this wall of defense against the soviet union. president bide season trying to shift the mission of nato to stand up against china. keeping in turkey and reigning in turkey at the same time has been a challenge. one of the biggest problems is that turkey is trying to play both sides. turkey is a nato member. it hosts a nato base that has u.s. troops.

then in order to balance that relationship, put pressure on the united states, put pressure on nato, erdogan also bought a russian missile defense system. many u.s. military officials i have spoken are profoundly uncomfortable about that. there are u.s. jets, nato jets in turkey taking off from that base. then there's a russian missile defense system that turkey has acquired that was designed specifically to shoot down nato aircraft. nato officials, u.s. officials want turkey to give up that missile system. they say it limits their ability to operate from the base if there are weapon systems designed to shoot down the jets that fly from there. that's one of the issues that is at hand. there is the issue of syria where turkey says that what the united states is doing in syria, the united states supports kurdish groups against isis,

turkey said it's supporting a terrorist organization. there's some fundamental differences. it seems the fact that this meeting happened, that erdogan has been talking to the local press, it seems that erdogan wants to perhaps make bridges or amend relationships with nato because he doesn't have president trump in office anymore. the two of them were very close. >> for sure. helene cooper, let me ask you as you cover the pentagon, about another critical issue that nato has been grappling with, the u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan, which is something that nato has stood by the united states of america through that entire longest war. what is your reporting telling you right now about how that issue is playing out amid this summit? >> well, first, thanks for having me. richard, that was poland that scored in the soccer match.

i have my eye on it over here. >> glad you are up to speed on this. >> the president biden's meeting with the turkish leader erdogan is huge because right at the top of the agenda is the afghanistan withdrawal. one of the things that the u.s. desperately wants from turkey is for the turks to commit to staying to guard the airport in afghanistan. as you know, we expect to keep embassies -- our embassy there and a lot of other nato ally embassies are plan on staying in kabul. that's not going to happen in a serious way with a lot of people on the ground if they can't secure the airport in kabul. the turks have agreed to keep their troops out there. that agreement has been wishy washy. they don't have a formal commitment yet from erdogan that he will do that.

that's one of the big things that people -- that the pentagon and the state department were hoping to get out of the biden/erdogan meeting. keep your eyes open for whether or not they announce any agreements on whether the turks will remain at the airport. if they don't in afghanistan, expect to see a smaller u.s. footprint on the ground there. you can see other embassies following australia's lead and pulling out of afghanistan completely. that's a pretty big deal. overall, the afghan issue, that's clearly a huge one for nato. nato has been there from the get go with the americans. as biden said yesterday, nato was quick to formalize the collective defense treaty with the united states and agreed to follow the united states into afghanistan. they have been there since. that's sort of a big deal. now you have this huge military enterprise coming to an end now. so working out many, many kinks of that is top of the agenda.

>> david, let's pull out the lens a little bit and talk big picture. of course, we know the entire theme of the president's trip so far has been that america is back and also that democracy can stand strong in the face of autocracy. what is your sense, having watched this day unfold, watching president biden on stage now with nato leaders, of course, the military flip side in some ways of the economic g7, how do you think we are standing up right now, especially in the face of china? you heard keir simmons' interview with putin where he was open about the fact that he might be willing to have a military relationship with china. there are new elements around that particular relationship that potentially have a lot of reason to give nato pause.

>> i think that you are right that president biden came to europe, came to the summits first in britain and now in brussels, hoping to convince people that america is back. that was the phrase. that america, with its rebounding economic growth, growing at a pretty amazing clip, over 6% economists say, economy with the high vaccinate rate relative to its partners, was again a strong ally, prepared to take the lead. a little bit of a questionable proposition at the outset, because a lot of europeans remember the trump years. we're not far from them. worry is biden fully in control? i think he has gotten more buy in certainly than critics thought was possible. china is a perfect issue. some of our european allies are wary of joining the u.s. in too vocal, too aggressive a stance

toward china. germany sells an enormous amount of exports to china. yet, the germans and other nato partners were with the u.s. in the strong communique. today's meeting with president erdogan is the most delicate yet. erdogan has been pushing the envelope. he has been playing off the u.s. against russia. he has been bought russian anti-aircraft defenses at the same time that he wanted to get u.s. fighter jets. a lot of nato allies were saying this is incompatible with them in nato. he is bending back towards biden. they exchanged sharp messages. the turks called biden arrogant, hypocritical, before the

election. these two have a lot of history. if they today have a meeting in which erdogan seems to be moving toward u.s. positions on the missiles, on other key issues, at helene cooper said, prepare to stay, defending the air base in kabul, that's a sign, i think, of biden's strength as a renewed leader of the alliance. keep your eyes on that. that will be the clearest evidence that the strength he is talking about is recognized for real by pretty tough-minded leaders like president erdogan of turkey. >> yeah. incredibly interesting. david, how does that meeting with erdogan in the context of him as you say trying to play russia on one side and the nato alliance on the other, how does what happened today between biden and erdogan set the stage for biden's meeting with putin? >> i think it's a really

important run-up to the putin meeting. putin, as we often say, talking about foreign policy, plays a weak hand cleverly. the russian economy just is not world class. china is a real competitor in every ray. russia isn't. it's still largely a resource exporting economy. putin by being very aggressive has been able to push the u.s. back, destabilize the u.s. putin in the end can't give a leader like president erdogan of turkey very much. putin may be looking at this calculus. how far should he lean toward moscow, toward washington? erdogan was close to president trump. i can't imagine there was anybody sadder when trump lost overseas than erdogan. now as he recalculates, he may decide that the u.s. is crucial for his economy, he needs

america investment, he needs american support. he may move some distance away from the russians toward biden. let's watch that carefully. that will be i think the most important takeaway yet from this trip. >> mike memoli, as we head into -- we are waiting, of course, for this press conference. as we look ahead, we consider what happened today, we look ahead to the putin meeting on wednesday, what's your top of mind question for the president heading in? >> reporter: well, it's been interesting. we have talked so often on a domestic side of how this biden administration often under promises and then over delivers. that's their goal more often than not. the white house and the president himself have been pretty clear in the run-up to this that they don't expect much, frankly, out of this summit. jake sullivan said at the white house that there would be month delivers to use the diplomatic term. president biden just yesterday speaking in response to a question from peter alexander

said that he can't guarantee that vladimir putin would move on any of the issues. i think as the white house is, i can tell you from my conversations with some of those officials, we are paying close attention to simmons' great interview with president putin and looking for potential questions about where there is potential for overlap. i thought it was interesting yesterday to hear president biden raising the sort of vulnerabilities of russia heading into the summit. things that perhaps we don't necessarily focus on. their economy, the hand that they are being dealt now after their strong support for al assad in syria. that's the areas he will try to test the russian president. they are interested in reading this interview transcript as well and watching the clips for clues about where they might be ai believe to push vladimir putin. i think that's where we will pose questions to the president later today. >> very interesting.

we will have more of the interview next. richard engel, thank you. keep us posted on that match. maybe grab a pint. mike, david and helene, stick around. we expect to happen any moment, the president's press conference. first, we have a brand-new piece of nbc's exclusive interview with vladimir putin. what the russian president said about the january 6 attack on the u.s. capitol. president biden prepared to meet with putin in two days. two days ♪let's make lots of money♪ ♪you've got the brawn♪ ♪i've got the brains♪ ♪let's make lots of♪ ♪uh uh uh♪ ♪oohhh there's a lot of opportunities♪ with allstate, drivers who switched saved over $700. saving is easy when you're in good hands. allstate click or call to switch today.

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welcome back. after president biden wraps up meetings in belgium, he is off to geneva for a meeting with russian president vladimir putin. ahead of that meeting, putin sat down for an exclusive and wide ranging interview with nbc's keir simmons. keir joins me live from moscow. keir, it's good to see you. we will see another portion,

which mike memoli is reporting there, the white house has been watching very carefully as they try to figure out how to set the president up as best they can for his meeting with putin starting on wednesday. >> reporter: yeah, that's right. i think what you are seeing in this interview in one sense is kind of what it's going to be like for president biden in this meeting with president putin, because the issues that we raised are the issues that president biden will raise. what president putin does again and again is try to deflect, to change the subject, to change what aboutism. this is a good example, because we were trying to question him about navalny, his leading critic in prison here in russia, who was poisoned and the accusation is, of course, that he was poisoned by the russian state, if you like. those things have happened. we were trying to ask president

putin about it. he said, what about the capitol riots? what about the capitol riots in january? take a listen. >> translator: and they came to the congress with political demands. isn't that persecution for political opinions? some have been accused of plotting to take over government power. some are accused of robbery. they didn't go there to rob. the people, individuals whom you mentioned, yes, they were convicted for violating their status of individuals who had been previously convicted and given suspended sentences, twice an individual was given suspended sentences, essentially was a warning not to violate the russian laws. completely ignored requirements of the law. the court went on and turned the conviction into real jail time. thousands and thousands of people ignore the law and they

have nothing to do with political activities in russia every year. and they go to jail. if somebody is actually using political activity as a shield to deal with their issues, including to achieve their commercial goals, it's something they have to be held responsible for. >> reporter: i think what you are seeing there is president putin doing two things. trying to change the subject and to try to lean into the divisions in america, just as you have seen him do again and again. for president biden, the challenge is going to be this week when he sits down with president putin that he will try to press the president. the president will go back to history, go back to domestic politics in america. i said to him, isn't your policy -- isn't president putin's policy that you don't talk about the domestic affairs of other countries? clearly, that is his policy except when it comes to

criticizing america when he is asked about russia. >> russian -- the russian president on how we do political free speech here in the united states, not quite how i, having been at the capitol during the riot, would go with it. i understand what he was trying to accomplish as he had that conversation with you. keir, you have more from this interview coming up next hour? >> reporter: that's right. we have more of the interview later in the afternoon. we are going to be looking at president putin's views about china. it's going to be interesting. we ask him about whether he was prepared to criticize china. you will see from the interview that he continually doesn't want to do that. of course, russia has closer and closer to beijing, even as that distance has opened up between moscow and washington and moscow and western europe. >> keir simmons, thank you.

fascinated to watch this interview you did, especially ahead of this summit. thanks very much. we may get more reaction from president biden at the upcoming press conference. we will bring you that live when it happens. the list of people whose data was secretly subpoenaed by the trump justice department is growing. it's not just the president's perceived enemies but someone inside his white house as well. m cash℠ card, a different kind of card that rewards rashida where her spending is trending. just ask overly confident diy rashida rashida: wait, was this the right wall? or last minute gift shopping rashida rashida: i'm putting a bow on it! wow. even sneaking away for a vacay rashida. rashida: shhh! i've earned this? from home improvement, drugstores, select travel and more earn 5% cash back that automatically adjusts to your top eligible spend category, up to $500 spent each billing cycle.

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welcome back. the top department of justice official who was likely briefed on decisions to subpoena the phone data of reporters and members of congress is stepping down. the doj official says his departure was planned and not department faces over the subpoenas. this comes as "the new york times" reported the doj ceased data from apple on don mcgahn and his wife. they are the latest in the growing list of people whose apple phone data was subpoenaed by the trump doj, including two democratic members of the house intelligence committee and their families. while democrats were quick to condemn the subpoenas for targeting the former president's perceived political enemies, context surrounding mcgahn's subpoena is more opaque. we don't know if he was the subject of an investigation or if the doj was investigating one of his associates. nbc news has not confirmed the

mcgahn reporting and has reached out for comment. pete williams has the latest on this story. pete, what's your sense of what's going on here? how is what's happened with mcgahn different from those members of congress? >> i think the simple answer to the question is, we're not sure. we still don't have a very good picture of what exactly it was that the justice department wanted from apple about the members of congress and members of the house intelligence committee staff or from don mcgahn. there's basically two kinds of things that the government can ask for from communication providers. one is what is known as metadata. all the phone numbers that were called or the text addresses that were sent to or email addresses, but not the actual content of any of those communications. that's the more extensive thing. that's what members of congress say they were told by apple was the subject of the subpoena for them. in mcgahn's case, we don't know

whether it was that or simply that his phone number turned up in some other search and they went back to apple and said, whose phone number is this and who was he in touch with? we just don't know yet. we haven't gotten a good explanation from the justice department about what happened here. it's not entirely satisfactory what we have heard from congressional sources about what they got. apple has given some information. it's going to take a while before we get a clear picture of exactly what was going on here. >> pete, what does the resignation of the doj official have to do with it, anything? >> no, i don't think so. he had planned to step down early on anyway. he was a holdover from the trump administration. he made it clear to justice that he intended to step down sometime this summer, sometime when school was out. that's really what's happened here. over the weekend, some members of congress said they want to hear him testify about this, because he was in the government

when these things were happening. again, it isn't clear how much of the senior officials were signed off on this. you would expect that if the white house counsel was the subject of a subpoena or members of congress that it would have some high level signoff. we don't know where that was. barr, for example, said he doesn't know anything about this, that it happened before he was there. >> as you point out, so unusual, especially on the congressional side. you would expect top leaders would be more than aware of what was going on. pete, thank you for your reporting. we expect that president biden's press conference in brussels will begin soon. stick around for that. we will bring it to you live. te r 25% of your mouth. listerine® cleans virtually 100%. helping to prevent gum disease and bad breath. never settle for 25%. always go for 100. bring out the bold™

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welcome back. you are looking at live pictures out of brussels where president biden will hold a press conference any moment now after a crucial day of meetings. we will take you to the press

conference as soon as it begins. the house is back in session today, the first time back on capitol hill since news first broke of the trump justice department's secret seizure of democrats' records. democrats have called for bill barr and jeff sessions to testify before the senate judiciary committee. nancy pelosi said the house will call on barr and sessions to testify under oath. another story we are watching right now, the resolutions condemning house members. minutes ago, republicans unveiled their censure resolution against omar, alexandria ocasio-cortez and talib. that was in response to omar's tweet last week equating the u.s. and israel to hamas and the taliban. brad schneider plans to introduce a resolution censuring marjorie taylor greene. joining now is abigail

spanberger. thank you for being here. i will apologize in advance. we may have to cut this off to listen to the president over at nato. i apologize if we face that contingency. >> that's okay. >> let's start with you have a national security background. the president has gone overseas to send the message america is back in preparation for this meeting with vladimir putin on wednesday. we know the white house has said they don't need delivers from putin at this point or they done expect them. what do you think the president needs to accomplish with that summit? >> i think the president is taking the right tact. i'm pleased so far with everything i have seen in terms of how they're talking about this meeting. vladimir putin is a strong man authoritarian. we need the president of the united states, president biden, to demonstrate strength, commitment to american democratic values and to stand

up for our country, for our democracy, for the integrity of our elections and to be strong as he contends with vladimir putin. we know that we are at a challenged point in our relationship with russia. we are not going to get past that by the president doing anything other than standing firm and advocating for our nation, first and foremost. in terms of delivers, i think the president and the administration are taking the right tact. i do hope that topics of conversation when they meet will be focused on cyberattacks, whether they are driven by the russian federation or by the criminal organizations that take harbor and base themselves in russia without any consequence. i hope that he will speak aggressively about russian efforts to undermine our elections and meddle in our

elections, particularly continue to endeavor in misinformation campaigns. i hope that he will stand up for democratic values and ask firm questions about the fate of mr. navalny. >> congresswoman, there was a suggestion from the president that he might consider, in reaction to the nbc interview my colleague keir simmons did with vladimir putin, where putin suggested he would be open to swapping cyber criminals, essentially, and the president seemed to indicate he might be open to that, the setting of state when pressed by my colleague andrea mitchell said he didn't want to get ahead of the president. what do you think u.s. policy should be on that question? should we be open to such trades? >> i think the general principle is we have to stand up for the rule of law. the president needs to stand up for the rule of law, defend the integrity of the our election

system, defend the integrity of -- looking at the colonial pipeline, for example, of major u.s. infrastructure that has been attacked by either russian aligned or russian located entities or the russian government itself. i'm going to agree with the secretary of state here that i think the president should have every tool in his toolbox available for this conversation. but so much of what he should or shouldn't do will depend on the reaction, the forthrightness or the tone of the discussion that he has with mr. putin. >> fair enough. let's talk about russia in terms of domestic politics. we learned while you were on recess last week that there were subpoenaed for phone metadata for democrademocrats.

what was your reaction to learning that? what do you think congress needs to do about it? >> i think notably the challenge that we are seeing is not only were there subpoenaed for the -- subpoenas for the phone records but there were gag orders that the companies were not permitted by law to having any discussions about those subpoenas. really understanding full scope of how this happened from public reporting. it's my understanding it came through a grand jury. i think we have more questions than answers at this point in time about why those subpoenas were put in place, what the process that was utilized and whether or not there has been any subsequent follow through on an investigation that we are or are not aware of. >> you have been happy with how the biden department of justice has been responding to inquiries

from democrats on the hill? >> notably, i don't serve on the judiciary committee. i will defer to my colleagues on that committee from their direct engagement. as a member of the larger democratic caucus and a member of the house of representatives, i have been pleased to see the biden administration's department of justice be measured, be focused on the letter of the law and be clear in their delineation and their independence in terms of how it is they are responding to inquiries and engaging with congress in our duty of oversight. >> let's talk for a second about some of the things going on within the democratic caucus in the house. we saw republicans unveil this censure resolution against some members of the squad as they sometimes call themselves. a lot of it focused on the tweet from omar where she was referring to the international criminal court, but she put the

u.s., israel in the same group with hamas, taliban and this sparked backlash from jewish democrats, some of whom are upset by the comments. did you think it was an appropriate thing to tweet? >> let me be very clear. i think it's -- there has been clear condemnation of any effort to associate the united states of america or our ally israel with terrorist organizations like hamas and the taliban. i'm a former cia officer. i worked counterterrorism for the entirety of my career. there has to be a very clear line drawn between the types of offensive and horrific behavior that terrorist organizations around the world engage in for the purposes of power, for the purposes of destabilization from the acts that democratic countries take to protect themselves and innocent lives throughout the world.

i think there was -- what we saw was clear condemnation of any intimation, whether intentional or not, that in fact those -- that democratic governments are in any way aligned with or similar to the horrors of terrorist organizations throughout the world. >> congresswoman spanberger of virginia, thank you for taking time to be with us and our wide ranging conversation. we appreciate it. as we wait for president biden, with us is nbc news senior washington correspondent hallie jackson who will be here for us the entirety of the press conference. we have mike memoli, white house correspondent, ben rhodes, former national security official, david ignatius as well as is helene cooper, ready to help us break down and understand what we are seeing. mike memoli, let me start with you. let's set the stage. we have been waiting for this

press conference. it's a little biden time here. there's other leaders in the mix as you might say. what do we expect to hear from the president in the wake of today's meetings with nato? what do you think are going to be the top line questions for him going into this? >> reporter: so much of the president's trip here has been about re-establishing the relationships that frayed so seriously under the trump administration. i was here four years ago when president trump made his first trip as president. came to the new nato headquarters and proceeded to scold nato allies about defense spending and wouldn't commit to the article 5, what biden called the sacred obligation to come to the defense of any member who was attacked. that's something clearly that the president is going to be focused on in his remarks. i have to say, what's been interesting about covering this trip is you wonder how it would have played out if not for

what's happening next in geneva. there is so much the administrationstantive level as result of biden re-emphasizing these relationships on the coronavirus, the billion vaccines that was committed by the g7, a global minimum tax, the strong language about china. all of these things would be headlines if not for the fact that just about every time we in the press corps have had an opportunity to pose a question to president biden, it's been about russia, it has been about the putin summit coming up. it's interesting to get some insight. i'm interested in having a conversation after with the president about whether it has overshadowed a trip that are strong accomplishments. as i have been talking about, i have heard from the white house that they are keeping a close eye on the keir simmons interview with president putin as they prepare for the summit. certainly, some of the new language we heard from vladimir

putin today may be something that gets posed to the president as it was yesterday by peaer alexander and others on the first interview. certainly, i think there are real questions about the future of afghanistan that are front and center that the president will be interested to discuss. the questions about how the nato alliance has modernized in the 21st century to confront not just the traditional battlefield that nato was formed to help protect these allies on, but the emerging battlefield in cyber as well. these are some of the hot topics for the president as he comes to the microphones later, hopefully soon. >> hopefully soon, indeed. hallie jackson, i can't help but be struck by listening to mike talk about, yes, all of these things perhaps were overshadowed by the meeting with putin. one of the things that's so strikingly different from the

previous four years is that this president made a point to show the strength of the nato alliance, of the g7, of the institutions that the west has built and that have been at the forefront of all of this. whereas, president trump often ended up making something of a mockery of these events. biden has used that to set up, set the stage, to try to reset america's relationship with russia. you covered so much of what president trump did here. the images coming out of this and what we expect to see, just so different. >> from the body language, the unspoken piece of it, the spoken words of it, if you will, for the former president, in many ways still has a shadow that is hanging over brussels even today. much of what president biden is trying to do is to show he is not donald trump. to show the u.s. is hoping to diplomatically turn the page on the relationship with nato after former president trump repeatedly again and again, would slam nato, mock nato, talk

about allies paying their fair share. that was a huge line of his on the campaign trail through his administration. it's a familiar sight for our viewers, this backdrop at nato headquarters. we should note, as we get into this so that our viewers know, this is one of those situations where we think the president is imminently going to walk up to that microphone and begin to take questions. like so much of what happens at these summits, his meeting, for example, that he was in just moments ago with president erdogan may run late. we don't know what else he may try to do before he gets to the microphone. we anticipate this should happen any second. which is why we keep that box up on the left side of the screen live so you will see president biden walk up when we see president biden walk up. i think mike memoli laid out well what some of the issues are. helene cooper, let me bring you into the conversation. all of these topics from the summit with putin or the meeting with putin, you could call it, from afghanistan, from this discussion that he just had with

president erdogan, there's a lot that directly affects the beat you cover, the pentagon, for "the new york times." how do you see president biden addressing some of the issues here when he gets in this room with reporters possibly any minute? >> i started laughing when you said president i started laughi when you said president trump once mocked nato. in 2018, he wanted to take the united states out of nato. remember how he had to be talked out of this, from bolton, who protected the nato communique from trump. they wouldn't let him see it because they were afraid if they didn't get it settled before he got there, trump would blow up the whole meeting? he went from there to speak to vladimir putin standing next to the russian president himself. so we have a long -- you know, we have a long row to hoe with both russia and nato, but that's where i think president biden is getting a lot -- even something

of a pass right now, because all he has to do at nato is not be trump. he said yesterday america is back. all he has to do at nato is say america is never going to leave, don't worry, we're here for you, and he's golden. so that means that his appearance with vladimir putin in geneva is going to be just that much more important, and there again, i'm so curious about how that's going to play out, because you have biden as somebody who has agreed with the interviewer that putin is a murderer, i think was the word that was used, and putin has had plenty to say back at biden. so this is going to be -- i'm so curious as to how the two of them present. >> you and the rest of the world, helene, for sure. kasie, i know you are with us still as well. >> for sure, let me go to ben

rhodes on that very important point you were just making, too, because i can't help but think, ben, that helene was laying out the same sequence that mike memaly was, okay, we've got all this pomp and circumstance of the institutions, but at the end of this, we have vladimir putin. that's what the press corps is focused on, that's what president biden has been preparing for. his team talked about how he spent a morning he had free focusing on this. he's even talking to the queen about it. if you were behind the scenes planning something like this, what's the value and the risk of capping such an important foray out on the world stage with something you know is ultimately going to be a huge risky thing that's going to define the entirety of the program, essentially? >> well, yeah. actually, in my previous life, i used to have to plan the schedule for these trips, including, i remember, a 15-minute meeting with president erdogan that went an hour and a half, so i'm sympathetic to what's happening right now.

look, they knew exactly what they were doing. i mean, i think you have to recognize that they probably had in mind, here's the sequence, right? the first meeting is with the g7. that's the core group of democratic allies. that's where we're going to plant our flag and say the democracy is back, america is back, here's our agenda. then we'll meet with nato. that's the bigger security alliance that's representative of america's historic role in kind of underpinning the collective security of the so-called key world. and we'll also be expanding the agenda at nato to include issues like cyber with russia, issues like china to speak to their agenda, and with all this momentum generated by the furious agreement that has been on display at the g7 in nato, then you go into the meeting with vladimir putin in kind of a stronger position, as you've just demonstrated you're not just walking into that meeting as the president of the united states, you're walking into that meeting as a leader of the

collection of democracies that has kind of reaffirmed the need for democracies to stand up to autocrats like putin. the down side, as you guys have indicated, yeah, that means all the work you're doing on covid, on climate change, on china is inevitably going to be somewhat overshadowed by the fact that everyone is looking forward to this putin meeting. i can tell you that's not just the press, though, nato is trying to get in his ear about the discussion with putin, too. i'm sure the meeting with erdogan is addressing this issue he has to address with putin as to whether or not they can open a border cross opening to get into syria. so he's helping talk to putin in a way by talking to these allies. if he draws a clear line from trump going in with clear issues on belarus to navalny to

election issues and campaigns, while at least trying to hold open a line of communication for the u.s. and russia to work on together like the nuclear weapons deal, then they can show, hey, we can work with the allies and stand up to the autocrats and still do some business stuff. but it's vladimir putin and he gets a vote. usually his vote is to be disruptive and try to undermine u.s. priorities. he will have his own readout of the meeting, as will biden. i think we know how the story will end. the story will end with the u.s. saying we're backing some values, we will be firm on the things we care about, and putin, i think, will be the often difficult leader that he is. the problem is, is this spiraling things like cyber

hacking. we won't know that until a few weeks. we're getting a ton of news from that exclusive interview between keir simmons and putin. what putin said made headlines, but also what putin did not say is making news as well. a couple examples come to mind, ben, specifically president putin refusing to answer directly about whether or not he would agree to not send more troops to the ukraine sovereign territory. president putin not answering directly whether he could guarantee if alexei navalny will get out of prison alive. that's how putin operates. you see president biden coming out with a potentially strong hand, right, especially coming off of meetings with world leaders where he basically has their support, he's going in with their backs. but if there's anybody who can play a weaker hand, right, isn't it vladimir putin? >> yeah. and i think the other thing is if you look at since this summit

was announced, the actions taken by russia have not been the kind of actions that seek to create a warm environment. you had the hijacking of that airliner so belarus operations could be detained. clearly russia's fingerprints probably on that. you had more of these cyberattacks emanating from russian soil. you had interviews where he's been dismissive, as you said, on whether alexei navalny will even leave prison alive and certainly not handing out an olive branch on ukraine. so putin is not necessarily coming to participate in the summit. as a staffer between president obama and president putin, he'll come in loaded for bear on what-aboutism. you guys are the ones responsible for what happened in ukraine. you guys are the ones who meddle in internal affairs. you guys are the ones that need

to control cybersecurity. these are debates that can make it very difficult to actually get things done. i think they have specifics in mind, though. they want to make sure they at least get some cooperation in reining in some of these cyberattacks. they want to talk about syria. they want to explore whether they can at least have talks about weapons and arms control that has fallen apart in recent years. they're trying to get back into a nuclear arms agreement. so there are things where russia does not have to play this role as a spoiler. so much of this has areas that are huge tension. i think that's on clear display with these interviews you've been running, and biden can't ignore these things. >> what strikes you the most about the putin interviews we've

been showing here all day? what struck you the most as far as -- we don't get too many chances to see the body language, the pauses that say so much without saying anything at all. >> kasie, i've been struck as much by the tone as by any specific thing that putin has said. his tone has been almost trucculent. he looks angry. putin always ends interviews looking like he has a chip on his shoulder, tries to needle the interviewer. but it's especially pronounced in this interview. he looks a lot older than the last time i can remember seeing an interview with him, which is something if you're out of russia. so i think this puts us on notice that biden is going to confront an angry, defensive

russian leader who craves respect but at the same time thinks he can only really get attention by being aggressive and assertive. in a sense, biden has an easy job at geneva in that -- in the first instance, all he has to do is not be donald trump. when the interview is over, he just has to not agree that putin said the right thing, that he's going to side with putin and not u.s. intelligence. if he does that, he's ahead of the game. >> well, there you go. david ignatius, thank you very much as always for your deep insights. helene cooper, thanks to you as well. i know hallie is going to stick around next hour with geoff bennett. geoff? >> good morning to you. we are awaiting president biden who is expecting to hold a news

conference at any moment from th