tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC June 14, 2021 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
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know. everybody has got to unplug sometimes. and if you don't unplug, god is going to find a way to make you unplug, and in this scenario, we are god. >> sadly, a ton of people tonight thoughtpeople tonight thought that was real. the essential blair or skin to take us off tonight. that's our broadcast for this monday evening with our thanks for being here with us on behalf of all our colleagues at the networks of nbc news, goodnight. rachel will be back tomorrow. this weekend, we all had an experience collectively as americans that we haven't had in a few years. all this weekend our president was overseas and nothing crazy happened. the president of the united states did not norm out of a meeting or threaten to blow up a decades old alliance or insult ahead of state or phone
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over a dictator and look you're my which may very. maybe you liked all that stuff about our previous president and the way he shall we say it stirred things up but either way for the last four years and he timed the american president got on a plane to go abroad we all kind of involuntarily tensed up, bracing for whatever was going to happen this time so it may take us a little bit to get used to reports like these. biden causes sighs of relief among world leaders. u.s. allies enthusiastically welcomes biden to a gathering of world leaders. biden was greeted with delight by leaders of the group of seven gathering. yes, the light. and why wouldn't they be delighted? even if they don't see eye to eye with joe biden on everything they're at least pretty well guaranteed to be spared the small indignities visited on g7 and nato leaders by the previous president. like the weirdly long violent handshake that nearly took the arm off the japanese prime
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minister who turned to his staff once he was released with a look that was either relief or get me the heck out of here. or there was that weird non handshake with the german chancellor. just totally ignoring her as she asked for a handshake. i think i would describe her expression there as amused, but funneled maybe. i'm sure there was a fairly long german word for it and of course who could forget the previous president literally shoving nato leaders out of the way to puff his chest out at the front of a photo op. this was today's nato group photo. as you can see, no shoving. it's a very low bar to clear but there you have it. the british prime minister's calling president biden, quote, a breath of fresh air. the french president said that biden has definitely convinced allies that america is back. the german chancellor has hailed biden's commitment to multi lateral-ism. but the g7 this weekend a nato today, those were in a way the
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easy parts. when president biden emerge tonight in brussels after a full day of talks with nato allies he assembled pressed mostly want to ask him about his next meeting. his one-on-one this wednesday with latin putin. >> i'm gonna make clear to president putin that there are areas where we can't cooperate if he chooses and if he chooses not to cooperate and acts in a way that he has in the past relative to cybersecurity and some other activities then we will respond. we will respond in kind. there need not be -- we should decide where it's aren't in our mutual interest and the interest of the world to cooperate and see if we can do that and areas where we don't agree make it clear with the red lines are. i had met with him.
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he's bright, he's tough and i've found that he's a as they say, when used to play ball with a worthy adversary. >> i get that meeting between president biden and putin is coming up on wednesday. nbc's keir simmons got an interview with vladimir putin ahead of that meeting and we're gonna have more on that a little later in the show. so joe biden's message on this first foreign trip has not been subtle. america is back as he puts it. the united states is we committed to its alliance of standing up to autocrats, repairing relationships with friends and his message appears to be resonating. a survey out last week from the pure research center found the attitudes toward the united states in 12 other countries have rebounded remarkably since biden was sworn into office with favorable opinions of the united states and confidence in the american president jumping dozens of points in just a few months. a new abc news ipsos poll finds
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a here in the united states, a majority of americans, 52% say that they trust joe biden to negotiate with other world leaders. nearly 60% say they have confidence in biden to do the right thing regarding world affairs. but as president biden has been overseas working on rebuilding and repairing americas image on the world stage, his predecessor shadow is looming large back home to. as new troubling questions arise about the damage the trump administration did so the u.s. justice department and whether the biden justice department is doing enough to repair it. and on that front, we have breaking news just this evening with the house judiciary committee announcing a formal investigation into the trump justice department secret seizure of communications records of journalists, members of congress, and their staffers and families. judiciary chairman jerry nadler says tonight, quote, recent reports suggest that during the trump administration, the department of justice used criminal investigations as a
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pretext to spy on president trump's perceived political enemies. congress must make it extraordinarily difficult, if not impossible, for the department to spy on the congress or the news media. we should make it hard for prosecutors to hide behind secret gag orders for years and it's time. we cannot rely on the department alone to make those changes. it is also possible that these cases are merely our first glimpse into a coordinated effort by the trump administration to target president trump's political opposition. if so, we must learn the full extent of this gross abuse of power, root out the individuals responsible and hold those individuals accountable for their actions. like many americans i desperately want to see attorney general merrick garland succeed in his goal of repairing the damage done by his predecessors and return a sense of normal to the justice department. it's an important and where the undertaking. it is not, however, something
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we can accomplish by simply turning the page on the trump era. i've instructed my staff to begin work without delay. now this announcement comes on the heels of the senate judiciary committee announcing that it too will investigate but in an evenly split 50/50 senate the judiciary committee cannot issue this subpoena without at least one republican signing on and since that seems unlikely it makes tonight's news that the house judiciary committee will investigate that much more important. they should have no problem issuing subpoenas. but the frustration among congressional democrats here is not just with the former attorney general or with senate republicans who did not seem inclined to support investigation. there is palpable frustration with the biden justice department and with attorney general merrick garland. it seems fair to ask why they're should need to be a full blown congressional investigation in the first place. whatever answers are to be found as to what went down here,
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those answers are inside the justice department and that justice department is now run by appointees of president biden. who signed off on the subpoenas for communications records of journalists or of members of congress or who are investigating president trump and even we now learn on president trump's own white house counsel with whom trump was feuding at the time. and we're all the seizures of records part of a larger effort by the white house to weaponize the justice department against donald trump's political enemies. and if so, are people who were involved in that effort still at the justice department now? the justice department announced today that the head of the national security division, a trump era holdover is resigning. but department says that this departure was long planned. nothing to see here. executives from the new york times, the washington post, cnn, the three organizations whose reporters records were seized secretly met with attorney general garland today but the
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meeting was off the record so we do not know what was said there. garland today says the justice department will codified new rules around seizing the data of journalists and lawmakers and he's directed the departments inspector general to investigate the seizure of records for members of congress and their staff but if this is as bad as it looks than handing this off to the inspector general and making some tweaks to the rules is probably not going to cut it. if this is as bad as it looks, the justice department needs a deep cleaning and it's not clear whether merrick garland is up to that. joining us now is katie benner, she's a new york times reporter who covers the justice department. katie, my good franken to see you. good to be back with you and real life. you and i have been talking for several weeks about this particular issue. what is the tension here? is there just not enough coming out of the justice department to ensure members of congress in the media that this is being taken seriously and read it out? >> that certainly the primary concern right now and of course is always gonna be questions
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about what happened during the trump administration in these are going to be answered eventually. to your point these investigations take a lot of time. so members of congress are wondering, where reporters are wondering, is why can't the justice department answer some of those questions now? and also it's the indication of that there is maybe a lack of political skill at this justice department under this administration. merrick garland, he was a federal judge. he's not a political animal. he's not a creature of politics and if you want to do everything by the book and understand that but time is of the essence and answering some of these questions and keeping the public's faith in the department along with his stated intention of being transparent. so the more time goes by, fewer questions are answered that's going to make it harder and harder for people to believe that they will get the answers they feel they deserve. >> what do we know about this head of the justice department's national security division john emirs is a trump appointee according to reporting in the new york times. a trump appointee who remain in
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the department would typically have been briefed on investigations like those involving the secret collection of journalist phone records. the justice department saying nothing to see here. that was a planned departure. >> john is a really curious figure because his head of the national security division you would've expected him to be butting heads with president trump if you think about what his division does it look since a very sensitive national security matters. keep in mind, the biggest national security matter was taken out of his hands and given to robert mueller. that was the russia investigation. and he managed to fly under the radar for most of his tenure. there was even talk of allowing him to be the acting attorney general until merrick garland was confirmed. he is known as a centrist. he's trusted white people even within the justice department. john karlyn and someone who's worked with him he continued a lot of the work that john karlyn and the current deputy tierney general did before him under the obama administration. he did not change a lot of their policies on things like china. he did express to john karlyn that he wanted to leave in may.
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he was asked to stay on. i think if we had known that all of this information was gonna come out in this spring in early summer he would not have stayed for it because he does need to do things like trying to find a job and he doesn't need to leave the department and it's coming at possibly the worst time. >> let's talk a little bit about this merrick garland issue and the statement today when he says i'd rather the -- have full confidence that he will conduct a thorough an invest pension investigation. if at any time the investigation proceeds action related to the mattering question is warranted i will not hesitate to move swiftly. for regular people like us, we think that must be important the inspector general but what we know witnessed over the last four years is the politicization or the interference in these inspector generals in every department has one and so now there seems to be concerned by congressional people like jerry nadler and others that that's not enough. what should we be thinking about when we realize that this is been referred to the inspector general? >> the inspector general for the justice department michael horowitz has managed to act
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independently and his reports have come out really in if we look at the reports he's done into the abuses and the russian investigation he's hung out with those who have generally satisfied both sides of the aisle. he is known to be a straight shooter and i do believe we will get an answer from him. as we've seen in news reports, the answers we get from him often don't live up to all of the end society and hand-wringing that you see whether it's by conservatives or by progressives as we sort of get into this finish line and i say that is a word of caution to the public only because we don't have all the facts. in part because the justice department won't give it to us and so in maryland's mind in an ideal world we will all sit back and wait for the work to be done and think about other things as we've seen over the last four years. that's not exactly how it happened sorry merrick garland. but in an ideal world that's what we do because michael horowitz the inspector general does have a history of producing reports that seem credible and seem fair and you
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have the facts that people want. but we also know that that can take 8 to 18 months and in the meantime the political firestorm is going to continue. as we know, members of congress take it very personally when they feel attacked and they're attacked in this moment so this is not going to let up for the attorney general. >> katy good to see you as always. thank you for your frantic -tastic reporting of the matter in the new york times. all right i want to bring in one of the congressman whose records we know we seized by the justice department. congressman eric swalwell, member of the judiciary committee. congressman swalwell good to see you again. where were you on this whole thing because we have heard now from the justice department and the attorney general about what he plans to do. obviously congress is now taking its own steps. how do you see this unfolding? how do we all get the information we need about what went down here in weather going after your information? >> thanks ali and we have to because we the president set the tone for the country in that tone donaldson trump sent
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was we want to be a bully earn phony tough guy but that has presented in manifested itself and the way that everyday americans are acting right? you've seen the treatment of public health officials, the disdainful way that nba players are having bottle storm. them the breakdown on the house floor and my fear is that if the president is spying on his political opponents or weaponizing the department of justice that it's not just in washington that that could happen but across america people may think that it's cool. now you have a permission slip to do this because donald trump did it. and so that's why not only is inspector general investigation needed but in congress to interview and to find out what happened three places that the inspector general can't go we should also simultaneously have our own investigation. >> i want to just read from you something that i read from committee chairman jerry nadler on the judiciary committee. it's also possible that these cases are merely our first glimpse into a coordinated effort by the trump administration to target president trump's political
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opposition. if so, we must learn the full extent of the gross abuse of power route out the individual responsible and hold those individuals accountable for their actions. i want to trying to knock that to what we believe was happening. because the records we understand we seized before the democrats were in power in the house of representatives. before adam shift was chairing the insult committee. what do you think was going on in 2017 that would have caused records like yours to be sought out? >> we were speaking out against the president who was pretty close to russia and ali, i've been on a committee for years where they were classified leaks and it was information that i had heard about on the committee and i was never investigated or targeted so what changed? why was no one else on the committee investigated for these alleged leaks other than the two most vocal critics of the president? and so i think there's a lot of answers that we need about why we were targeted but again the
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bigger issue here is that john dean said 50 years ago that there is a cancer on the presidency. over the last four years, we saw that the actual cancer was the president. whether it was the rule of law, our system of justice, or even our democracy. donald trump was willing to destroy any of them if they got in his way and so this is not a 500 year flood situation. nothing donald trump pays more than being a loser and in the last year he was the biggest loser of all not just because he lost in a landslide alley but also because he tried to test our democracy and he failed. he barely failed. and so if he comes back as president or one of his wannabe cronies gets into office we have to make sure that we have rules and regulations that never let anyone get this close, as close as he did again. >> your colleague and now the vice president kamala harris bill barr about this about
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whether or not the president never asked anyone at the white house to open investigation on anyone. barr equivocated now when asked about it, sessions and barr boasts say that they have no recollection of this. i would imagine that if i were the attorney general and someone caused my department to investigate some of your profile or a reporter, there's no chance the attorney general would know about that. that would actually be grounds for not being the attorney general. if you didn't know the department was going rogue and investigating eric swalwell, adam schiff and new york times and cnn reporters. >> no chance ali. you're absolutely right. barr in that exchange look like my four-year-old that last night when i asked him if he had heaton a cookie and head crumbs all over his mouth. he looked guilty in that response and now we need to find out if he looks guilty because in fact he did know something. and ali i don't know viewers to think i'm above the law. if i've done something wrong and my colleagues have done something wrong we should be
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surveilled if a warrant is issued but here, in this instance and even with don mcgahn there was no connection to us and the leaks. i know that because i did not leak and so the fact that it never been investigated for prior leaks in the intelligence community makes me believe that this was very targeted by a president who would not only punish his own enemies with the department of justice but would reward his friends whether it's manafort, flynn, roger stone. that's just how he viewed our department of justice and it's really on us now as to whether we want to see a continuation of that for future presidents. >> congressman swalwell thank you for joining us congressman eric swalwell. we have a lot of news to get here tonight including new concerns related to the story that rachel let the show with on friday night. the safety of america's election workers. new reporting that many of them are leaving their jobs. that's next. that's next. you look a little lost. i can't find my hotel. oh.
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of lawmakers comes courtesy of the one america news correspondents names christina balk. one american news is the only so-called news outlet with restriction list at says to that figure is an audit and christina bob was kind enough to tweet out this picture. but that's not the most interesting thing about the lawmakers visit. the milwaukee journal central reported saturday that the for wisconsin lawmakers trip was paid for by a dark money group called voices and votes. the president and ceo of which is, drumroll please, one american news is christina bob. so to recap, the so-called journalist who is not only covering the so-called audit, but it's also been fund-raising to help pay for it is also reportedly paying for lawmakers from at least one other states to come and see how it's done so they can replicate it back home. that is what you call nice work if you can get it. at the same time that these
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phony election auditors are getting all sorts of help like this evangelizing their fate cause, the job of real election officials across the country is under attack. and at least three states now the secretary of state has either been directly or indirectly threatened or intimidated physically. new laws in iowa and florida have been tailor to impose huge fines on election officials for incredibly small technical mistakes. texas is considering managers that will make similar technical errors criminally prosecutable. mainly, make jail time or probation the punishment for making a mistake doing your job as an election official. all of this together, the rise of the conspiracy theorists running their own phony audits, the direct physical legal and financial threats facing local election officials all of it together makes it no wonder that states are now having trouble filling election related jobs. the societal press reporting the huge numbers of the
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election officials are either quitting or retiring early all over the country and that there is, quote, no shortage job openings for election officials in the key states of michigan, pennsylvania, or wisconsin. so the question is now that those positions are empty who's going to fill them? joining us now a local election official in the great state of michigan, barb byrum, clark of ingram county michigan. barb thank you for joining us tonight and thank you to you and people like you across this country who make elections work in this country. the idea is that these are necessary positions. they are a manifestation of civic duty but we are doing things across the country that are causing people to back away. to not want to do this. have you seen any of that where you are in michigan? >> unfortunately i have. many clerks have decided to retire or not run for reelection and it is a direct result of the attacks they have
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seen, the unnecessary criticism that they have received just doing their job. most clerks in most election officials just want to make sure that every qualified registered voter has an opportunity to exercise their right to vote and there are elections are safe and secure. now they're dealing with over 120 bills in michigan. over 120 election related bills have been introduced in the first six months of the michigan legislature's session. directly impacting the way we do our job and access for the voters to the ballot. this is not helpful. repeating the big lie, having committee hearing after committee hearing, talking about the big lie. this does not help. and these individuals have just been empowered to act a responsibly and to attack civil servants and to go after
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election officials who have been working so hard with limited resources. it's really unfathomable that we've gotten to this point because election officials are the frontline of our democracy. >> your -- i'm sorry to interrupt you. you're secretary of state john flynn benson was on actually with chris hayes earlier and he's been saying since the election that these bills that you talk about, these more than 120 bills in the legislature are eight solution looking for a problem. you actually have remarkably successful at this time around and you saw increased an access to the polls, in the number of people who voted absentee or in advance. anybody looking at michigan would say, you wouldn't need one bill to fix things right now. >> you know you should look at michigan. many states should look at michigan. how will we do elections, how well our election officials work together. in michigan we, have 83 county
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clerks that program the election and over 1500 of local clerks that conducts the day of the election. there are many checks and balances. we use paper ballots. in michigan, we have safe and secure elections but the facts won't get in the way of conspiracy theories or those believers. and so i'm constantly dealing with messages from individuals saying how dare you conduct a fraudulent election? i didn't? and neither has anyone else in the state of michigan. we conduct secure and accurate elections up there are checks along the way to make sure that those elections are safe and secure and accurate. >> well you just mentioned the conspiracy theorists, the associated press reporting today that these conspiracy theorists are in it for the long haul and they are looking specifically toward these election positions trying to force people, out come up with these laws that are good people
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working at elections and we don't know what party you're with or what you're doing, causing good people to go out because of intimidation because of threats and all of these laws to make it difficult and play the long game of putting people in their to share their conspiracy theories. >> they're absolutely playing the long game. and the truth of the matter is in michigan most election officials are republicans. so that i find interesting. i also find interesting that it's not just the election officials that are retiring or seeking alternate employment. it's also their election directors so we're seeing moving away from all the institutional knowledge conducting our elections, people are finding other jobs that are less stressful and provide less hard and what we're going to see is new people filling those positions that don't have elections experience or in it for other reasons and that is very concerning. it's very concerning.
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>> barb byrum thanks so much for sharing your experiences with us. she is an election official for and county region. have safe elections in this country. coming up next, the actions of progressives are taking to try to do something, anything really to stop states from rolling back voting rights. ck voting rights (shaq) magenta? i hate cartridges. not magenta, not magenta. i'm not going back to the store. magenta! cartridges are so... (buzzer) (vo) the epson ecotank. no more cartridges! it comes with an incredible amount of ink that can save you a lot of frustration. ♪♪ the epson ecotank. just fill and chill. introducing aleve x. it's fast, powerful long-lasting relief with a revolutionary, rollerball design. because with the right pain reliever... life opens up. aleve it, and see what's possible.
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office in january of this here, voting rights in america have been under attack. over the past few months, republican controlled state after republican-controlled state has passed legislation, making it more difficult to vote. meanwhile federal legislation and protect the right to vote is on life support in the u.s. senate, with democratic west virginia senator joe manchin coming out against him. with each day, the national fight of voting rights looks increasingly dire for voting rights advocates. but there is another side to this story. we saw in democratic lawmakers
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in texas dramatically walked out of their state legislature and successfully delayed the passage of that states voter suppression bill. this week, those same texas democrat lawmakers decided to take their fight to washington. tomorrow they're going to capitol hill to meet with lawmakers on both the house and the senate urging them to pass the for the people acts. then on wednesday don't meet with vice president harris who president biden has tasked to lead his administration's fight to protect the vote. at the same time, a new wave of grassroots action is taking place across the country, just tonight civil rights leader doctor william barber letter rally in charleston west virginia to, quote, mark on mansion. one appeared to be hundreds of west virginia marched through west virginia's capital to joe manchin's office demanding the senator and his support for the filibuster in his opposition for the for the people acts. and that may be just the beginning on what is shaping up to be a summer of action on this issue. today, more than 70 pro democracy organizations including the grassroots protest for indivisible sound
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-- in support of before the people act during congress is summer recess. what kind of public pressure will be enough to force some kind of national action on this issue? joining us now is judith browne dianis, executive director there of the advancement projects, one of the civil rights organization leading the coalition to advocate for voting rights over the summer. it's good to see you again, thank you for being with us. we've heard tonight from stacey abrams talking to troy breed, we heard from reverend barbara this weekend and then tonight talking to joint read saying this is the summer to call your members of congress, to call your senators. to get out there and march. to show discontent with the things that are happening or the things that are not happening. how do you see this unfolding? >> well thanks ali for having me and yes you are right. it is time to turn up the heat. democracy is on the line and so over the summer we will see
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lots of actions for example advancement projects in organizations in litigation that's already ongoing in places like georgia and florida we can't just leave it at the port. we need to make sure that we are in the streets and in the legislatures and so what we will see is people coming like the texas legislators coming to congress because we have to let members of congress no senators know that this is unacceptable. but we will not allow the gop to hold our democracy hostage and so we'll see those kinds of actions advance the project is teamed up in black voters matter and coming from the south arriving in washington d.c. on june 26th. so there will be a number of actions that will be in the visible which will be across the country to get people to call their senators and this is an all hands on deck moment to
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save our democracy. >> how do you convince people that it should be an all hands on deck moments? it sort of worked with an invisible and with the campaign to prevent republicans for repealing the affordable care act in 2017. obviously we saw the social justice movement after the murder of george floyd but in this particular instance, for a lot of good people this doesn't feel urgent. this doesn't feel like it's about them. if it's not about them to a voting place after church on sunday and it's not about on ups for them. how do you get people to understand that this is crucial emergence? >> well this is about all of us and these conversations about whether or not this should be bipartisan. this is a non partisan issue. this is an american issue and people have to understand that we have to connect the dots and
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january 6th should've shown us that democracy is under attack that there are lies and disinformation about voter fraud, that there was a steal. that is a lie. and what we know is that there are people who want to take in really with this is about is should americans have a voice in our democracy and what we are seeing at the state level is just unacceptable and outrageous. it is a power grab and what we're saying is let's get the for the people act passed and let's get over -- let's have all americans able to participate in our democracy and let's get the john lewis voting rights advancement act passed because we shouldn't have discrimination in voting. and so this is for all of us. this isn't a white black issue. this isn't just about latino voters or young voters but for young voters it's important to understand that the work that they did last summer is not over. we still have to keep working
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to protect our democracy. >> judith it's always a pleasure to talk to you, judith browne dianis is the executive director of the advancement project. thanks for your time. still ahead here, look at the a gender and political event later this week that quite literally the entire world is going to be watching. we're gonna talk with someone who briefed president biden today ahead of his meeting with vladimir putin. stay with us. ay with us
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have an increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, as these may be life-threatening, or uncontrollable muscle movements as these may be permanent. these are not all the serious side effects. this is where i want to be. talk to your doctor and ask if latuda could make the difference you've been looking for in your bipolar depression symptoms. >> this mayoral went up of russian opposition leader alexei navalny when he was imprisoned by vladimir putin. this is st. petersburg in april. four hours after it popped up, it was gone navalny smiling face and hands in the shape of the heart censored into oblivion by a thin coat of yellow paint. but henry putin will came to face with president biden on geneva switzerland on friday. the first meeting which made the two leaders since president biden was elected. and look what will be waiting for president putin when he arrives in geneva. it is back.
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alexei navalny smiling face will be there to greet the russian president, the inscription there says, a hero for our time. navalny's political imprisonment any especially nation attempt against him is certainly a topic of conversation when the two leaders meet. and potentially -- so will the false equivalency that putin has been drawing between the treatment of his main political critic, navalny, and the arrests of the riders who stormed the u.s. capital on january 6th. >> did you order alexei navalny's in assassination? >> [end of translation] of course not, and we don't have this kind of habit. of assassinating anybody, that's one. number two, i want to ask you, did you order the assassination of the woman who walked into the congress and who was shot and killed by policeman? do you know that 450 individuals were arrested after entering the congress. and they didn't go there to steal laptops.
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they came with political demands. 450 people had been detained -- >> -- >> they're looking at jail time between 15 and 25 years. and they came to the congress with illegal demands. isn't that persecution for political goals? >> miss keir simmons with that exclusive -- for the record, trying to pull isn't your -- reasoning them on false charges for opposing regime is not the same as jailing someone who tried to violently overthrow the government by -- that was in the process of certifying election results. but you know that, and so does vladimir putin. russia had a low point with the u.s., it's unclear if what, if anything in the meeting on wednesday will accomplish. there is one specific agenda item though that both sides are previewing the might bear fruit. two american citizens are currently imprisoned in russia, one has been accused of hitting a russian police officer, the
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other accused of spying. the u.s. has called both of their detentions unlawful. secretary of state anthony blinken said this weekend that president biden plans to address their imprisonment with putin and suggested a prisoner, or may suggest a prisoner swap between the two nations to ensure their release. surprisingly, president putin says he is open to it. he told nbc news that he is quote, yes of course open to the idea of treating prisoners with the united states. potentially releasing those two americans from russian custody. is productivity in this meeting a pipe dream? or something constructive? couldn't really come out of that meeting between biden and putin on wednesday? joining us now, ambassador michael nick fall, former united states ambassador to russia. he's in geneva tonight ahead of the summit between president biden and putin. ambassador mike fall, good to see you again. thank you for being with us. just in the last hour, axios is -- assembled a dozen or so experts on russia to brief him ahead of his meeting with president
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putin on wednesday. according to axios the president was briefed by two u.s. ambassadors including yourself. what can you tell us about this meeting and how you advise the president? >> well, first, i just really want to congratulate you and your team for mentioning alexander volley, trevor reed, paul we'll end in the story. they sometimes get forgotten. they need to be remembered we, have to remember their stories. i hope president biden does as well. with respect to that story i'm obviously not gonna comment on private conversations with president biden. biden isn't it great that the president is preparing for this meeting? because if you will remember the last time putin met with a former president, president trump, he was clear to me, i was at that one as well, working for you, not for the u.s. government is to be clear -- that president trump was not preparing for that meeting. so, i think it is a great thing that he is thinking hard about this. he said it many times along his trips so far. the one time i will talk about
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it, i was actually at the last one when they met. it was ten years ago. they each a different jobs. he was the vice president, putin was prime minister. and the night before, me and a guy named tony blinken, now secretary blinken, we spent several hours preparing vice president biden for that meeting because he understands that that is what you did to conduct effective diplomacy. >> let's talk about that. because when joe biden, you know i talked about this a few nights ago, when joe biden was talked about how joe biden was preparing for this. she said that he's over prepared for it. what do you need to be prepared for -- donald trump had this sense of economic -- trying to charm anyone. but when you're dealing with putin, who joe biden refers to as a worthy adversary, you have to understand, him and the policy, and his habits and tricks. >> let's remember if you facts about putin. this is his fifth united states
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president he's been. wait for president biden this is his first time meeting with putin as president. he's been doing this for two decades, he knows the issues hole. he does not need any briefings, doesn't need any advice about it. that gives him a big advantage. number two, putin in the past including by the way, with his meeting with vice president biden a decade ago, will sometimes surprise his interlocutors. remember, he did that in helsinki with president trump when he said let's exchange alleged criminals. you want to interview our russian intelligence officers, remember mueller had just indicted those intelligence officers just a few days before helsinki. he said, okay, let's do a swap. i want to interrogate a dozen americans. and i remember it well because i was on that list. ten years ago, when he met with vice president biden, when the press came into the one. he said, we just agreed to visa free travel between the united states and russia. then he sat back and he waited to see how vice president biden
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reacted. so, he has to be reactive to that. third, he needs to be ready for exactly what you were just talking about. this false symmetry, this, what about it. putin loves to play that game. president biden now needs to be ready to robot. don't get pulled into -- oh, that sounds like a good idea. maybe we should -- he needs to rebuke it and not make a part of the story afterwards. >> i want to ask you about a topic you would know well, there were some mixed messages coming out of nato today. early reporting that anthony blinken shot down, that ukraine might be considered for membership in nato. that was a triggering conversation for russia before the invasion of crimea. the idea that ukraine -- will become a nato country on russia's border. what do we make of that reporting tonight? >> it's standard notable --
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nato policy to have an open door. for anybody, not just ukraine, but you are in -- georgia as. well i think it was right -- not just about ukraine, but about the occupation of ukrainian territory that is still ongoing today. you know, a decade ago, the number one sticking points in the conversation between biden and putin was georgia and russian occupation of georgian territory back then. guess what? they still occupying georgia, but everybody's forgotten about it. we're not talking about it. i think that is a mistake. we need to keep bringing these things up. even if you can't bring progress to the issue. let putin know that you are focused on him. >> that is an important point, even if you can't bring progress to something it is our job to bring these things up as they relate to political encouraging -- incursions, human rights issues,
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prisoners. michael mcfaul good to see you, -- michael mcfaul is the former united states ambassador to russia staying up late for us in geneva. up next with what mitch mcconnell had said with progressives hoping for a superior court -- stay with us. stay with us. ♪♪ comfort in the extreme. ♪♪ the lincoln family of luxury suvs. (man) i've made progress with my mental health. so when i started having unintentional body movements called tardive dyskinesia... ... i ignored them. but when the movements in my hands and feet started throwing me off at work... i finally had to say, 'it's not ok.' it was time to talk to my doctor about austedo. she said that austedo helps reduce td movements in adults... ...while i continue with most of my mental health medications. (vo) austedo can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington's disease.
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from the ground up, helping to make san francisco the greenest big city in america but we couldn't do it without you. thank you, san francisco. gracias, san francisco. -thank you. -[ speaks native language ] let's keep making a differene together. ♪ ♪ look, if your wireless carrier was a guy you'd leave him tomorrow. not very flexible. not great at saving. you deserve better... xfinity mobile. now they have unlimited for just $30 a month... $30. and they're number one in customer satisfaction. his number... delete it. i'm deleting it. so, break free from the big three. xfinity internet customers, switch to xfinity mobile and get unlimited with 5g included for $30 >> tonight, the senate voted to on the nations fastest, most reliable network.
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confirm jackson to sit on the u.s. court of appeals for the d.c. circuit, often regarded as the second highest court in the land. three republican senators graham, collins, murkowski joined all 50 democrats and elevating judges jackson to the seat formerly held by the attorney -- jackson becomes the first appeals court judge of biden's presidency. and only the ninth african american woman to ever serve as a federal appeals court judge. during the 2020 campaign, biden pledged that given the chance he would nominate the first black woman to the supreme court.
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judge jackson is concerted to be near the very top of biden's shortlist. should a seat open up on his court. prior to becoming a judge herself, jackson clerk for supreme court justice stephen breyer who is currently facing calls to step down from some rebels who want to repeat it would have been 2016 while republicans blocked president obama from filling justice scalia's seat. on that front, we have some lessons surprising news today from republican senate leader mitch mcconnell about his plans in the event of a supreme court vacancy. if at when asked if he would -- supreme court pick in 2024, if republicans to control of the senate that year, mcconnell said quote, i think it's highly unlikely. in fact, no... of course, mcconnell did not have a problem confirming trump's third supreme court nominee amy coney barrett just eight days before the 2020 election. he would not even commit to having a supreme court pick in
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2023. should republicans control the senate at that time, which is not only mind-blowing lee on faithful to the united states constitution, but is your to ramp up the pressure on the 82 year old breyer to retire even more. as -- watch this space. it is uniquely important space. that does it for us tonight rachel is going to be back tomorrow. it's time now for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening my friend. >> good evening ali. and it leaves you wondering did mitch mcconnell just do the democrats a favor? by basically telling justice breyer this really this summer is the time to go. >> he's drawn a bit of a line for breyer and for a whole lot of democrats who thought that maybe this time, mcconnell will look at things differently. mcconnell is remarkably consistent and how he looks at who should be a foot in the supreme court and how. >> it seems like he made justice breyer's decision a
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