stoltenberg and members of the alliance in saying that nato members must finally contribute their fair share and meet their financial obligations. >> i just want all of europe to know that the united states is there. the united states is there. >> 23 of the 28 member nations are still not paying what they should be paying and what they're supposed to be paying for their defense. >> i want to make it clear, nato is critically important for u.s. interests, in and of itself. if there weren't one, we would have to invent one. >> that's a little different, isn't it? >> just a smidge. >> of course, the last president, when he would talk about the 2%, he spoke as if there was some big, gigantic pot somewhere, where everybody was throwing the money. >> all their money. >> yeah, it didn't work that

way. >> president biden and former president trump with starkly different messages to nato allies at each of their first nato summits as president. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." we're here in washington. it is tuesday, june 15th. >> all this space. i don't know. >> come on in, really, honestly. >> fear of open spaces, i got it. >> it's kind of exciting, actually, to see the camera. and look, human beings! >> i was just telling her,, you know -- >> yeah, he sits there in a closet with a camera and it's talking to willie. along with joe, willie, and me, we have former chairman of the republican national committee and msnbc political analyst, michael steele. good to see you! >> good to see you in person. >> absolutely. >> and columnist and associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius. we've missed you! >> great to be here. >> and "new york times" washington bureau chief, elizabeth b. miller is with us. what a great group. >> willie, it's really

frightening out here in the real world. >> it's not. >> i remember telling phil griffin 15 years ago, phil, it doesn't matter where you are, you can be in a closet and if you deliver the content, everything works out all right. >> that's true. >> in the closet. but, you know, i don't know. i'm kind of missing the closet right now. but it's great to be with our friends here, willie. we can't wait to see you here, as well. >> i'm hitchhiking my way down. south of philly right now. popped into a truck shop to do the show this morning. but, man, the space we just saw, that was the longest tracking shot since "goodfellas" through the kitchen just to get to you. i'll see you tomorrow. >> i'll do my six-mile loop before we leave. >> it really is something. david ignatius, we showed some clips of last year and this year, obviously a big difference. something occurs to me this week. we had the meeting with boris johnson and then we have the g-7. and now we're having nato.

and every step of the way -- we had boris johnson. he's going to meet with putin. g-7. he's going to meet with putin. you start adding up. i'm a dork. i start thinking, what was our gdp last year? we're $21 trillion. the eu is about $19 trillion if you add great britain. they're still our allies. that's $40 trillion of wealth a year. $40 trillion of wealth a year. the chinese, $14, $15 trillion. that's pretty good. that's almost the japan that can say no. you remember that book from '89, the japanese were going to turn us into their granary, right? russia, $1.4 trillion. now, it seems to me, if we just take care of the home team together -- this is what i wish politicians would explain, that's $40 trillion of strength and wealth and you look at our defense spending, it dwarfs, like, china's, russia's, all of

these enemies we obsess about every day, and yes, we should be concerned, but still, david, i wonder if we're continuing to focus too much on the wrong thing, instead of just focusing on how important having good relations with our best allies -- how important that really is. and how we are unassailable if we take care of first things first. >> you know, joe, this trip has been an object lesson that it's always sensible to remember the number. just how strong the u.s. is. but we had a demonstration of that this week. that the biden team talked in their preliminary conversations about the trip, that they're going to say, america's back. they're going to remind the world of american leadership. but we saw this week, exactly what that means in practice. i'm told that every one of these meetings involved leaders who were almost clamoring to sit

down with biden. you had a difficult leader like president erdogan of turkey, who was, you know, ranting before the meeting. this or that. zipped it. said nothing. biden gave a bland statement about how it was productive and, you know, whatever -- >> by the way, like so many other leaders on the world stage, he has a long-time relationship with erdogan. >> so he has a longtime relationship, but i think the point is that this theme "america's back," now has a practical face. and that's biden. he's calm, he doesn't take the bait, people say, you know, is putin a killer? he wants to -- just refuses to repeat that on the eve of his meeting with putin, because he's a lot calmer and more comfortable in his position as a leader. so, on the eve of the meeting with putin, which really does matter, i think biden can say he got everything out of this trip

so far that he would have wanted. and most of all, the basics that you're talking about. america's strong, our economy is growing like gangbusters, we vaccinated this huge percentage of our population. he is the strong leader of this alliance and showed it in england and in brussels. >> and the messaging matched the moment. nato leaders used yesterday's meeting to show a unified front against threats from russia and china. the group collectively declared china a global security challenge, citing the country's, quote, assertive behavior. as for russia, leaders said there would be no, quote, business as usual on the world stage until russia demonstrates compliance with international law. but in biden's news conference yesterday, "the washington post's" anne gearan, to the point we were talking about here, asked the president how he reassured allies that american democracy is strong in the wake of the attack on the capitol. >> you said several times that

america is back at allies' side. but a lot of those allies are themselves pretty rattled by what happened on january 6th, and the attempted overturning of your election. and they may still be alarmed by the continued hold that donald trump has over the republican party and the rise of nationalist figures like him around the world. what do you say to those allies? what have you been saying to them at these meetings about how the next president of the united states can keep any promises you make. >> what i'm saying to them is, watch me. i mean. i'm not saying anything to them, quite frankly. i'm just going out. people, as i've said before, don't doubt that i mean what i say, and they believe that i keep my commitments when i say it. the leaders i'm dealing with in nato and the g-7 are leaders who

know our recent history, know generically the character of the american people. and know where the vast center of the public stands. not democrat/republican, but who we are. we're decent, honorable nation. and i think that they have seen things happen, as we have, that shocked them and surprised them, that could have happened. but, i think they, like i do, believe the american people are not going to sustain that kind of behavior. the republican matter is vastly diminished in numbers. the leadership of the republican party is fractured. and the trump wing of the party is the bulk of the party. but it makes up a significant majority minority of the

american people. >> so i have to appreciate him just methodically, honestly, elizabeth, answering the question. i don't disagree with anne's question. i think there are a lot of questions on the world stage that address the issue as to whether or not, is this a four-year blip and america continues to slide or is joe biden going to put a stake in the ground and keep us moving forward in the democracy that we are. but yet, the stories that david is sharing, about world leaders clamoring to get in america's face and the america is back statement, while it's garnering some questions from the press, i'm not sure what more joe biden can do, beyond what he's doing, which is messaging and showing. >> that's true. you saw how long it took him to answer -- >> he took his time. >> there was a long pause before he started answering the question. and obviously, the white house is concerned about that. and, you know, underneath all of this warmth and celebration of joe biden, it's a real concern among the european leaders that

this is just an interim between trump, another trump -- trump again, or a trump-like character. and what happened on january 6th, shocked us, shocked the world. it's still out there. you see the number of republicans who support trump, who think that joe biden is not the properly elected president. so it's worrisome. it worries this white house, as well. it worries the europeans. so joe biden, you're right, can't promise that this is the -- that this is now going to be smooth sailing from here on in. >> and yet, he must. >> yes. >> willie? >> michael steele, you know, there's the old adage about leading politics at the water's edge. the president shouldn't talk about partisan politics when he goes overseas, projected a united front for the country when he's there. he was asked a direct question. i suspect part of his pause at the top there was because of that. but his message across this last weak and across the world has been, we are back. the last four years, many pieces of it aren't who we are in the

united states. he's trying to project the message that it was, in fact, a blip. do you think the world is buying it? >> i do. and not only are they buying it, willie, i think they're hopeful from it. they have a high degree of expectation. we opened the program with the comparison of the two presidents, trump and biden, with the nato alliance. and one was transactional and you owe us money and you guys aren't carrying your weight. and the other is when we're talking about. we're partners. we're working together. so on one level, they want to hear that. they want to reconnect to the washington and the president and the u.s. that they used to be connected to. but then, also, to the other point about, okay, so what does this look like? well, joe biden can't worry about 2024, with 2021 right in front of him. so he's going to do this me to theically. he took that pause for a reason.

he wanted to show that what he was about to say, he looked at and it took it seriously. and i think for a lot of our european allies, this is the first time in four years, five years that they're sitting there going, okay, this seems right, this seems normal. we can do this. it's baby steps. putin is tomorrow and everybody is going to watch and try to die dissect what that is, but i think the president has a strategy. he's now deploying internationally that's going to work for him and help him further his agenda for the longer term. and so he's taking his time and we should just wait and see how it plays out. >> and prime minister boris johnson is reported to have said inside that meeting room, it's like the first day of school. it's good to see your old friends again, looking at president biden. joining us now live from brussels, nbc news white house correspondent, mike memoli, who's traveling with the president. mike, good morning. what's on the agenda today? and looking ahead to geneva tomorrow?

>> well, willie, we can almost see the finish line on this long trip today. in fact, lightest day on the schedule for the president. he just had a courtesy call with the king of belgium. he's going to be diving deep into the bureaucracy of the european union, just in the next hour for meetings with the eu leadership, as well. we expect, by the way, a significant trade announcement. bloomberg already reporting it has to do with a long-running dispute between the u.s. and the eu between boeing and airbus, and some of the tariffs that were slapped between both entities in the trump administration, in fact. yesterday, of course, one of the longest days of this trip so far. as you mentioned it, the president really enjoying his time. it was the largest circle of leaders that he was going to be with on this entire trip. a number of one-on-one meetings that were added, that weren't originally on the schedule, as he's doing the most to take -- he's trying to make the most of this opportunity to sit and talk face-to-face with some of these world leaders. willie, it's been interesting, as we look ahead to the putin

summit, how much i think that has overshadowed a trip in which the white house really thinks they've done a lot, delivered a lot for the american people. that's really been one of the themes below the surface, okay, the larger framing of democracy and autocracy, the battle between the two in the 21st century. and one of the ways biden thinks you win that battle, as a democratic institution is to show that you can deliver for your people. so this trade announcement today, a good example of the sort of real, concrete language in the joint statement that was issued by the nato leadership yesterday, singling out china for the first time, really, as a challenge to the global order. in addition to what we already saw at the g-7, to the president, is a sign of success here. and some real momentum heading into that summit with putin tomorrow, willie. >> and mike, as you've been speaking, we're looking at live pictures of the president arriving for that meeting in brussels. nbc's mike memoli, thank you very much. and mika, as joe pointed out, yes, there's a lot of attention on the meeting tomorrow in geneva with vladimir putin, but the focus really for the last couple of days has been on china

and on shoerg up these alliances with our allies. >> absolutely. but as we get ready for tomorrow, here is president biden explaining how he plans to approach tomorrow's meeting with vladimir putin. >> i'm going to make clear to president putin that there are areas where we can cooperate, if he chooses, and the areas where we don't agree, make it clear what the red lines are. i have met with him. he's bright, he's tough, and i have found he is a, when i used to play ball, as they say, a worthy adversary. >> he's also resentful. it is a foreign policy we've all talked about before that has run on resentment since he's taken power. the greatest catastrophe of the 20th century. he still believes is the

collapse of the soviet union and he lives that out every day. and it seems one president after another underestimates vladimir putin. does this one? >> we'll have to see just how the meeting goes. but it's been really striking to me the demeanor of the two leaders in the run-up to the summit. putin in the interview that keir simmons from nbc did with him seemed to me almost truculent. this man carrying all of this resentment, a chip on his shoulder, a take-me-seriously, this anger that russia has been displaced from a prime position that's part of putin, but i've never seen it more sharply defined. and here's biden, and he's, we'll see what happens. we want to make agreements if we can. but we'll make clear what the red lines are.

he's a worthy advocate. the opposite of the nasty, sharp language that putin was using, opened the door to some reasonable balance. and i think if putin is looking for this moment to shake hands with a strong president, which i think biden showed this week, he actually is, biden has given it to him. i also think biden has set himself up pretty well to be sharp about some very specific nos, some red lines. he's made clear on cyber, on ransomware, there are going to be red lines coming out of this meeting. so it's so different in tone from trump. he's not a supplicant, he doesn't need putin. he doesn't want to be putin's friend. i thought the worthy adversary, it was just right in saying, i'm ready to sit down with you. i'll give you that. but i'm not going to give you anything else. >> elizabeth, what does the white house want to take away from the putin meeting? >> i think what they've wanted to do from the beginning is just lower the temperature,

de-emphasize putin, despite this meeting, which everyone is focused on, the fact that biden is not having a joint press conference with putin is really significant. he was advised not to do that. >> what's the strategy of not -- >> the strategy is just don't put them together on the world stage. don't bring putin up to your level. and biden can control the message afterward, as can putin, of course, himself. but don't -- just -- i can't forget trump and putin in helsinki midway through the trump administration, it was one of the most astonishing performances i've ever seen of an american president where trump basically agreed with putin over his own intelligence agencies. and this is a far cry from that. it's completely different. and i think they want to sort of de-emphasize putin, you know, show that biden is strong. can i deal with him. but i'm not going to get all worked up over this guy. i think that's the strategy. >> he can send a very clear message if he wants on a number of levels, one on one, that

maybe he could have 30 years ago. he's had a lot of experience on the world stage. he's made a lot of mistakes. and he's lost a lot. and that is like the exact great recipe for someone who will go into a meeting and say, you know what, this is what i need and you're going to have to make it happen. >> and mike lee, we've seen a lot of presidents recently make mistakes. he saw george w. bush saying, i looked into his eyes and i saw -- >> all of that. >> we remember barack obama whispering to -- >> yeah, yeah, hey, listen, after the election, i'm going to have a lot more freedom to get things done. and of course, we saw donald trump time and time again, the low point being helsinki. three up, three down. like, that side was retired and now here's the fourth president going up against vladimir putin. it is hard to imagine after all of those miscalculations, we haven't even talked about the

reset. hitting the but the tonight with the reset. after all of those miscalculations, it is hard to believe that we would have yet another president who would repeat the same mistakes. >> and it's just not in his nature. you know, the president biden is a student of institutions. you know, he comes out of the senate, he's come out of the white house. he's got this broad base, as he will tell you, you know, he has relationships with a lot of these leaders. >> by the way, he's made a lot of mistakes himself. robert gates famously has said, he's made a lot of mistakes that he's learned from. >> and he knows who's sitting across from him tomorrow. he's less interested in what's in his soul and his eyes and cutting some secret deal after an election or capitulating to him, as we saw trump did. what he's doing, and i think david put his finger on it, he's going to draw some red lines

that we have not drawn with putin many a while. and we have a encourage emerging fronts in which those lines have to be drawn. >> hopefully there'll be a note taker. >> you never know. apparently, the precedent was set for no note taker. another thing i realized being here in washington, elizabeth, i guess i have to brush the back of my hair now. >> what's that? >> it was so easy, just that one shot. >> you want to tell them who texted you -- >> kasie is like, comb your head? >> it's all right. this is how it's going to look and i don't care. >> and wear long pants. >> i'm fine with messy hair. still ahead on "morning joe," the latest with the pandemic. california is set to lift coronavirus restrictions today, as one specific variant keeps the uk from reopening, as had been planned. plus, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell signals another possible supreme court showdown if republicans win back the majority in 2020. also ahead, assistant house

speaker congresswoman katherine clark will be here to discuss where fracture talks stand on capitol hill amid growing doubt that lawmakers will reach a bipartisan deal. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. watching "m. we'll be right back. ♪ sometimes you wanna go ♪ ♪ where everybody knows your name ♪ ♪♪ ♪ and they're always glad you came ♪ welcome back, america. it sure is good to see you. stay restless, with the icon that does the same. the rx crafted by lexus. lease the 2021 rx 350 for $449 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer.

among my patients i often see them have teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. $449 a month for 36 months. does it worry me? absolutely. sensodyne sensitivity and gum gives us a dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. there's no question it's something that i would recommend. oh! are you using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? so you only pay for what you need. sorry? limu, you're an animal! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

lately, it's been hard to think about the future. but thinking about the future, is human nature. at edward jones, our 19,000 financial advisors create personalized investment strategies to help you get back to your future. edward jones. centrum multigummies aren't just great tasting... they're power-packed vitamins... help you get back to your future. that help unleash your energy. loaded with b vitamins... ...and other key essential nutrients... ...it's a tasty way to conquer your day. try centrum multi gummies. now with a new look.

another day, another chance. it could be the day you break the sales record, or the day there's appointments nonstop. with comcast business, you get the network that can deliver gig speeds to the most businesses, and you can get the advanced cybersecurity solutions you need with comcast business securityedge. every day in business is a big day. we'll keep you ready for what's next. get started with a great offer, and ask how you can add comcast business securityedge. plus, for a limited time,ask how to get a $500 prepaid card when you upgrade. call today. guys, as we get older, we all lose testosterone. force factor's test x180 works to boost it back.

build muscle, increase energy, fuel desire, and improve performance. rush to walmart for test x180, the #1 fastest-growing testosterone brand in america. this is what it feels like to be 100%! ♪ root, root, root for the -- ♪ ♪ if they don't win, it's a shame ♪ ♪ for it's one, two, three strikes you're out at the old ball game ♪♪

>> oh, my ears! >> yes, willie geist, finally, a worthy successor to harry caray at wrigley, bill murray. he's a hard guy to find, but when you do find him, he always delivers a performance. but there at wrigley celebrating the reopening at 100%. >> of all the signs that america is back, that life is returning to normal, that nature is healing, that might be the best right there. bill murray singing "take me out to the ball game." friday afternoon game, sold out, wrigley field. wrigley was 100% capacity for the first time since the fall of 2019 for the cubs and the cardinals. cubs got the win, the chicago cubs are in first place, tied with the brewers right now. i think it's fair to say that america is back, joe. >> no doubt about it. and willie, we -- i saw yesterday a headline from bloomberg that california before

the pandemic, a lot of stories about how its economy was failing, its debt was rising. this article yesterday said it is the number one economy in the united states. there's not a close second. california just booming economically. there are a lot of -- i mean, there are a lot of questions why. and i know that michael steele and i would say, well, how exactly does a high tech state with high regulations continue to explode. it doesn't go along with everything that we have thought and said our entire life, but it is a success story, and more good news. california is lifting covid restrictions today. >> the economy there had been booming under restrictions. cad today will lift covid restrictions, according to new guidelines, fully vaccinated people will not be required to wear a mask.

vaccine verification or a negative covid-19 test will only be required by the state for a venue to operate under certain crowded circumstances. meanwhile, great britain's prime minister boris janice has delayed plans to lift most remaining covid-19 restrictions by a month, as the delta variant surges across the united kingdom. the news comes with new questions over vaccine mandates here in the united states, after a federal judge tossed out a lawsuit filed by hospital employees in texas. nbc news correspondent miguel almaguer has more. >> reporter: as our nation marks the loss of more than 600,000 lives, the highly contagious delta variant first identified in india remains the most serious threat here at home, after exploding across the uk and now extending that nation's lockdown for another month, a new analysis suggests the fully vaccinated are more than 90% protected against hospitalization from the

variant. >> if you are vaccinated, you are protected. >> but a fight is underway against vaccinations. a federal judge has just dismissed a lawsuit at houston methodist hospital, siding with the medical center that's requiring all 25,000 employees to be vaccinate by june 21st or face termination. >> we are prepare to get terminated at this point. >> plaintiff and nurse jennifer bridges says the small group will appeal, but as more hospitals require vaccinations as part of employment, more protests and litigation are coming. >> you can't just go into work and say, i don't want to do these things. you're not going to be working there too long. pretty soon, the employer will recognize, vaccination is part of a safe workplace. >> reporter: in addition to hospitals, select airlines and universities are requiring some employees to get vaccinated. and now with an estimated 30% of americans still not back at the office, the legal groundwork is

now set for more businesses to follow suit. >> our thanks to nbc's miguel almaguer for that report. >> yeah, you know, we're talking about reopening and it is so frustrating that some -- if you're a hospital worker -- >> it seems like that would be a basic requirement, to be vaccinated. >> this is just not hard. >> but they're pushing against it. and i was watching some of them being interviewed on television saying, well, if everyone else is vaccinated, why should i be vaccinated? >> oaks my gosh, what are you thinking?! no! >> it just doesn't make sense. and michael, my friends and family members, other people who are vaccine hesitant, the crazy thing is, they're acting like this is the first time a that we have ever had a vaccination in the history of america. and they're going, wait a second. i don't understand. if other people are getting vaccinated, why do i need to be

vaccinated? i don't understand, if children aren't usually getting this, why do we want -- and i say, hey, wait a second. your children, all of them, have had to be vaccinated for polio, for measles, for mumps, rubella. what was their chance of getting polio? a lot less than getting covid. yet, that's how we've been doing it for decades. you want to vaccinate everyone get herd immunity up and weep the disease out. we all know this. and the people that are feigning ignorance know this. >> some are being misled. >> no, no, no, no. we have been doing this now for five years. it's on them. they can google it. they're not able to blame anybody else for who they vote

for, for sympathizing with fascists and putting other american's lives at risk. >> at the end of the day -- >> there's no excuses. >> i'm 100% with you. i've said it before and i'll reiterate it again. you can't help stupid. and if you are -- >> okay -- >> if you're a hospital worker and you're in the throes of this thing and you're coming out with the comment, well, if they're getting vaccinated, why should i? that's stupid >> again, goes against half of a century of what we've all known about vaccinations. we all -- by the way, by the way, willie, they can actually look at their children's vaccination forms, anybody who has a kid, hasn't been able to send that kid to school unless they've vaccinated them for several things that their kids are very, very unlikely to get.

and yet we hear, but, they're not like -- duh. i mean, come on. >> go ahead, willie. >> when you hear people say "i want to learn more," what more do you need to know? we have been reporting on this for months and months and months, there are medical papers, fda and cdc guidance, everything you need to know about it is right there. and i would just add, we started this conversation talking about this delta variant that they're worried about in the uk, that they've seen in india, and that there are some cases of here in the united states. that's all the more reason to get the vaccine. medical experts will tell you, the way to beat the delta variant is to get the vaccine, because these vaccines have been proven highly, highly effective against the variants, as well. if you don't want it to come back here, if you don't want to see more cases and more shutdowns and your life changed again, the answer is to get the vaccine. >> and you're saying, let me be very clear, i've said it before and i'll say it again, if you don't want to get the vaccine, if you want to risk getting sick, if you want to risk dying,

i'm kind of a libertarian -- >> okay -- >> hold on. hold on. if you want to pack five, six packs of cigarettes a day. if you got 'em, smoke 'em. i'm sort of a libertarian. those big gulps, drink them all you want. i'm not bloomberg and you heard willie going, mm, that goes down smooth. and it does! i want you to do what you want to do. but if i'm a small business owner, right welcome if i invested in a company and put up a store and every two weeks, i have to worry about making payroll, every two weeks, i have to worry about taxes, every two weeks i have to worry about regulations and osha and everything else, i should be able to let people come into my store that i want to come into my store. if they don't have vaccines, i should be able to say, i want to keep my customers safe. and yet there are actual governors, mika, who are telling companies, who are forcing

companies, who are using the centralized power of the state to order them to do things that are unsafe in their own businesses. that's just really dangerous. >> okay, but all i'm saying is, you know, there is one thing, when people are choosing to not look at the facts, but there's also, i think, a great section of america that has kind of bought into this cult of trump. there are lawmakers in washington, your republican party, that are refusing to stand up for the truth and for this country and for the constitution. and so they're feeding into the, i'll say, disinformation. and i would not call it stupidity, about the virus or about the january 6th attack. and as liz cheney put it very eloquently, there's a large section of the country that has been misled. and this is what the administration is up against. and it doesn't help to call everybody stupid. having said that, there are some really -- there are some people who are choosing to be -- i

understand your frustration -- >> well -- >> that's exactly my point. there are people choosing to be stupid. to willie's point, in the face of all the facts, we have been in this thing how long now? it's not like we're just discovering this thing called covid-19, that kills. >> that kills people. it's not like these hospital workers and other professionals who are in health care -- i mean, this is a bunch of -- >> that's disturbing. >> trying to put together a family recipe for a cure. so they understand exactly what's going on here. so, yeah, i'm sorry, it's tupd, and you are in that role and misleading people and taking them down a path as a health care professional that they shouldn't go. to your point about politicians, they're playing the game, because they got these folks screaming in the corner at them that they're afraid of, instead of asserting leadership and informing and educating, and sharing that information to evaluate the level of discourse and understanding, they play down to stupid. so that's my only point.

>> totally agree. >> 40% of republican members of congress would not tell cnn whether they had been vaccinated. which tells you -- >> that is exactly my point. >> either they haven't been or probably have been and just don't want to say. >> they don't want to -- >> you know they have been. >> they don't want to lead. >> of course they've been vaccinated! >> and that's where my anger is focused and directed, at people that were first in line to get the vaccines and then they're lying about it. and david, one other thing. let's be clear on a couple of points. number one, this did not start with donald trump. secondly, donald trump has carefully at times chosen to say, get the vaccine. i did this, it's a great vaccine. i'm proud of it. he's not -- he's not outfront of it, but again, but he -- i just want to make this pitch one more time, to republicans and to

democrats alike. republicans have something to be very proud of. we can go and every time i do something like this, i get in trouble with mika. >> i see what you're doing. go ahead and do it. >> are you sure, mother? >> oh, my god, mike pence -- isn't that what mike pence calls his wife? "mother"? >> so spooky. >> well, don't act that way. >> ttouche. >> republicans can look at the vaccine and go, donald trump, he and his team did a pretty damned good job picking pfizer and pick moderna. did a really good job. >> or did they pick him? >> you can't help yourself. it's like a tick. >> a nervous tic. >> if you don't think they did a good job, compare their choices to the eu's choices. they did a good job. >> precisely. >> and so republicans, stand up and applaud your president, your team, your -- >> so what does biden leave

with? >> so joe biden, if you're a democrat, stand up and celebrate the fact that he can do the logistics in a way that donald trump just wasn't good at doing logistics. >> i like this. i'm good. >> so go, team. team being america. there's a reason for both sides to celebrate. this is pretty incredible what america has done. >> what did biden lead off with at his press conference yesterday in brussels? the first thing he said was, we are dealing with covid. he said to all the world's leaders, he said, everybody watching him. and it was the measure of america's back. we're not a crazy country anymore. we may have some crazy people, who for whatever reasons just don't want to get shots, don't want to get vaccinated, don't want to tell you if they've been vaccinated, but looking in the aggregate, we are so far ahead of anybody else. and a country that was disordered and just couldn't take care of its public health now is getting the job done. and i thought it was telling. that was the first thing he wanted to say in his press

conference. that's a sign that covid is back. and you know, joe, there will be people who for crazy reasons will resist, but again, i thought biden was saying to republicans, to the world, or the country, watch me. watch us. we're not crazy. people will come around. so it was that expression of confidence. it's been a while since we've heard kind of self-confident, comfortable with himself president. >> and he chose this trip to make the announcement about pfizer vaccine. the 500 million doses that the united states will send around the world. and that was the really significant, he chose this trip to do it. that's another sign of, america is back, we're leading the way, under pressure, of course. we're sending the vaccine to those who are needing it. >> it's the churchill quote. after exhausting all other possibilities, america always does the right thing.

>> willie? >> one last data point to add to put a button on this, joe and mika. the american medical association announced on friday that 96% of doctors in america, 96% of doctors have received the vaccine and that 45% of those remaining who have not gotten plan to get the vaccine. so if you don't trust the government or don't trust the media, ask yourself if you trust your doctor, 96% of whom have gotten the vaccine. >> i would bet you 96% of doctors have, willie, and 100% of members of congress. >> yeah. >> so one final note, though, bill de blasio, new york city mayor announced a hometown heroes ticker tape parade. this is actually very, very well-deserved. to thank health care workers, essential workers, and first responders, think of what they've all been through. the parade will happen on july 7th through the so-called canyon of heroes. coming up, the last, best hope for a divided america.

our next guest arguing that the country is not split into two camps, but four. "the atlantic"'s george packard joins us with that and michael beschloss joins the table. he's walking in right now, as you can see. we'll be right back. ng in right you can see. we'll be right back. finding new routes to reach your customers, and new ways for them to reach you... is what business is all about. it's what the united states postal service has always been about. so as your business changes, we're changing with it. with e-commerce that runs at the speed of now. next day and two-day shipping nationwide. same day shipping across town. returns right from the doorstep, and deliveries seven days a week.

it's a whole new world out there. let's not keep it waiting. my nunormal? fewer asthma attacks with nucala. a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala reduces eosinophils, a key cause of severe asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your doctor about nucala. find your nunormal with nucala.

bipolar depression. it's a dark, lonely place. this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression. emptiness. a hopeless struggle. the lows of bipolar depression can disrupt your life and be hard to manage. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms, and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. now i'm feeling connected. empowered. latuda is not for everyone. call your doctor about unusual mood changes, behaviors or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. elderly dementia patients on latuda have an increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, as these may be life-threatening, or uncontrollable muscle movements as these may be permanent. these are not all the serious side effects. this is where i want to be.

talk to your doctor and ask if latuda could make the difference you've been looking for in your bipolar depression symptoms.

it is 48 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, author and nbc news presidential historian, michael beschloss. and staff writer at the atlantic magazine, george packer is with

us. he's the author of the new book, "last best hope: america in crisis and renewal." and it's good to have you both onboard with us. and it's great to be here with everybody around the table. you can hear us all talking over each other, just like the old days. >> so, george, june, i like to go around telling people, at the end of the day, we're really, we're just one america. we're the united states of america. but you say, no, we're four americas, smart america, real america, just america. break it down for us. >> obama tried to say we're just one america and he got the back of the hand of the other half. so it's been tried and failed, joe, but my analysis is that we are certainly two countries, but those two countries are each split into two. start with free america, which is reagan's america, libertarian america, low taxes,

deregulation, turn business loose, get government out of the way. it's been the dominant political idea of my adult life. it had a run in the '80s, the '90s, but did not create widespread prosperity. in fact, i think it helped create a lot of inequality that we live with today. smart america is the america of the professional class, the educated, the americrats, and that class, which starts with the belief that we all have a unique task has become a kind of aristocracy, where children are born into the meritocracy and their ticket is already punched before they've even been tested. real america is trump's america, the right-wing populist america of the heartland that was a kind of rebellion against free america, when the promises of the older version of conservatism failed a lot of the country, what we got was a

rebellion against the top of the republican party from the masses. and instead, it's nativist, it's dark, it's zeen folkic and it doesn't want openness and trade and immigration. and finally, just america, which is also a rebellion from below. the millennial generation who says that you've been lying to us. the country is not progressing. it's a pass system in which certain groups are oppressing other groups since time immemorial and we have to fight for justice that may never come, because this country is born in original sin. those are the four narrative, the dominant narratives. they leave out a lot of americans who don't have the voice to shape dominant narratives, but those are what we have been living with really for the last 40 to 50 years. >> and and why the past 40 to 50 years? what was the triggering point that caused the division, that

causes what you see as the splintering? >> i think it began in the '70s, joe. really two things. one is the rise of a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural democracy, that we live in today. which has opened doors for some, and threatened others. and the second is the end of the industrial age and the end of the service and industrial chi which has created these massive economic inequalities. i think inequalities is at the heart of our fracturing. americans have a passion for equality, they all want to feel as if they're as good as anyone else. and when we end up in rigid classes from which you can't break out, you're born into it, you'll die into it, a frustration, a resentment, and a bitter competition for status and resources ensues. and i think inequality is really at the heart of these ills. >> one of my favorite books in

the mid-80s, maybe it was the mid-80s, the reckoning, david hallbershan, i think what he's talking about really started there. i think it really began when you would have general motors and more people working for general motors in the assembly lines, living the good life, from flynt, michigan, to, you name it across america. more people working just for general motors than they're working today for apple, google, facebook, microsoft, you name it. and with that hollowing out of the middle class, a lot of things have -- that board has been thrown up in the air. >> i think that's exactly right. what you talk about almost every single morning, we're living in a country that is almost a rebuff to george washington's dream of one nation that was

getting more and more united. of course, it was not one nation when george washington became president, for all sorts of obvious reasons. but it was always an ideal. and the difference between that and now is that we've now got a political system that capitalizes on these kind of divisions. this is the way you raise money or become the leader of your party in congress, depending on the party. so as long as this is going on with social media and the system we're living in, this is likely to be more pronounced along the lines that george is talking about. >> willie? >> i want to dig into a little bit of the real america. you say the term was first coined by sarah palin. and off great line in there that she was the john the baptist to the coming of trump. talk a little bit about what she started, governor pay palin sta and what she was responding to

in this post-9/11 world. >> she said it at a fund-raiser, which is the only place that politicians on the campaign trail actually tell the truth. think about obama with "guns and religion," hillary clinton with "the deplorables," mitt romneys with the "takers and the makers." she said, she loved coming to real america, where the patriotic, hard-working people who grow our foods and fight our wars live. so she was dividing us into the real and the make america, which is presumably where we live in new york. but she was in north carolina, in the piedmont area, which had suffered the loss of tobacco, textiles, and furniture making. the same kind of hallowing out that joe was talking about in michigan. and it was no longer the america she was imagining. it was a place of many pathologies and social ills with multiple generations in poverty and on public benefits. it did not look like the real america of sarah palin's imagination. and that america had become

hostile to elites, to experts, disbelieving of vaccination campaigns, for example. and sarah palin gave it an identity. it was not a set of ideas, as much as an identity. it was kind of white identity politics. and she was in some ways the trailblazer of white american identity politics, which trump then rose to -- brought to a new level and made into a winning political program. so i think palin is a crucial figure, even though she became a kind of failed celebrity, we shouldn't forget that she was the turning point in the republican party and the breaking up of the old business and evangelical christians. when you talk about sarah palin, you want to talk about a divided america, it goes both ways, by

the way. you want to talk about a divided america, i think of that "saturday night live" skit, where there are reporters from "the new york times," "the washington post", nbc, and in the skit, they were all talking about there being assigned going to alaska. and they were horrified, curled up in fetal positions and asking the most inane, iddiotic triple shot espresso lattes, that it did boil down the divide early on not just between sarah palin and those of us in the media, but between what sarah palin would call real america and elite america. >> and you can actually our friends nicolle wallace about where the energy at those campaign events were, late in 2008, michael beschloss. a lot of those crowds were coming out, the most enthusiastic of them to see sarah palin. she was exciting, she was

talking to them in a language that they hadn't heard before, at least out in the public. and as george described, she started something that we're still reckoning with here today. >> i think you're absolutely right, willie. and nicole will be delighted to be reminded of her role in the sarah palin rise -- >> i'm waiting for a text from her right now. >> exactly. with smoke coming off of your iphone, i assume. >> exactly. >> but it was visceral. and there is a visceral tradition in american politics. that's what george wallace was talking about in the 1960s, when he was talking about the pointy-headed intellectuals. and the bureaucrats with peanut butter sandwiches in their briefcases. he was saying, these people do not live like you. and i can remember a little bit, i was a little kid, but i was living in illinois, and we were by no means, our family, george wallacites, but the part that did ring a little bit true was decisions that affect your life

are being made in new york and they're being made in washington, d.c. we knew that to a large extent, they were not being made in illinois. >> michael beschloss, thank you very much. >> i just want to say that i think george's thesis is fascinating. joe biden has a theory of the case of how to fix this. and the theory of the case is, start at home, deal with covid, get the economy growing fast and then these terrible probation of inequality, unfairness, and anger will begin to resolve themselves. and i'm really curious to ask george whether he thinks that theory of the case is going to work? >> i agree, david. i think joe biden doesn't belong to any of those four americas. he sort of proceeds them. he's not locked into the bitter divisions of the four. he's more like a roosevelt or truman democrat. i think equality is at the heart

of biden's domestic programs and changing our lives, our material conditions for the better, across the board, across groups, and showing that government can play a positive role in people's lives, that's if he had an ideology, which he doesn't, really. i don't think he thinks in ideological terms. but that would be it. to me, that's our only chance. at the end of the book, i talk about equal america. which is an america in which everyone feels that they have a place. that their status is the same. their conditions are not exactly. there will always be disparities, but at least we won't be locked into crosses from which we can't escape. and i think that's biden's goal, whether he can succeed seems to be fought out every day in washington, and at the moment, it's a battle. >> thank you, george packer. the new book is "last best hope: america in crisis and renewal." we appreciate it. still ahead, an increasing number of shootings across the country foreshadows a potentially violent summer. how police departments are

bracing for that. plus, senate foreign relations committee chair bob menendez joins the table ahead of president biden's summit with vladimir putin tomorrow. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. can you be free of hair breakage worries? we invited mahault to see for herself that new dove breakage remedy gives damaged hair the strength it needs. even with repeated combing hair treated with dove shows 97% less breakage. strong hair with new dove breakage remedy. [sfx: psst psst] allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! all good among my patients i often see them have teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. does it worry me? absolutely. sensodyne sensitivity and gum gives us a dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues.

there's no question it's something that i would recommend. discover card i just got my cashback match is this for real? yup! we match all the cash back new card members earn at the end of their first year automatically woo! i got my mo-ney! it's hard to contain yourself isn't it? uh- huh! well let it go! woooo! get a dollar for dollar match at the end of your first year. only from discover. you just announced the united states will be donating 500 million doses to countries in need. that's wonderful. but i wonder, how do you feel about how the rollout is going in this country? >> let's get real now, number one, the one part. number two, the thing the guy said. number three, you know the drill. come on, folks. >> so you're pleased with our progress? >> absolutely, you know, come on, these vaccines are safe and effective. we've got three different flavors. the moderna, the p-fizzer and

the j.j. abrams. >> you know moderna, pfizer, and johnson & johnson? >> yeah, that's it. you got it. come on, let's get real. i've never been too good with, you know, what do you call them? what do you call them? >> the names. >> no, no, the other, the big guys, all of them. >> words? >> that's the one. words. they're like republicans. they don't want to work with me, but i keep trying anyway. look, folks, look, folks are hurting, okay? you know, i grew up in scranton, you know, my dad lost his job. he says, he says, joey, i lost my job. i said, what are you going to do, pops? he said, i'm going to stare at the ceiling and think about what to do. so pop would stare for hours a day at the ceiling. i would say, pops, can i stare for you for a while? so i would go in and i would stare so he could shower and what not and go to trader joe's and get paper towels and avocados and all of that -- >> mr. president, mr. president! >> what, it was great to be here, merv. come on.

>> i'm not -- >> oh, my gosh, merv! that's a good one. welcome back to "morning joe" . along with joe, willie and me we have nbc news, capitol hill correspondent, and host of "way too early," kasie hunt. white house editor for politico, sam stein. pentagon correspondent for "the new york times," helene cooper. and u.s. national editor at the "financial times," ed luce. >> dana carvey has his new calling. >> and the merv, a nice little calling card. i will hold the line, though, and say that jason sudeikis' joe biden remains the best to me. it's just so good and so over the top. >> we'll have to play that as well. >> a lot to get to this hour. president biden is set to meet with heads of the european council and european commission today, where he is expected to discuss u.s./eu relations along

with his upcoming meeting with vladimir putin. nbc news chief white house correspondent, peter alexander has more from brussels. >> less than 48 hours ahead of that high-stakes summit with russian president vladimir putin, president biden calling him a worthy adversary, and delivering this warning. >> if he chooses not to cooperate and acts in a way that he has in the past, relative to cybersecurity and some other activities, then we will respond. >> reporter: the president also denouncing putin's crackdown of his political opponents when asked what would happen if high-profile putin critic alexei navalny died in a russian jail. >> it would be a tragedy. it would do nothing but hurt his relationships with the rest of the world, in my view. >> reporter: president biden's arrival here at nato heralded by allies is a new chapter, where former president trump slammed the transatlantic alliance as

obsolete, mr. biden touted the commitment to the group as a sacred obligation. >> i just want all of europe to know that the united states is there. >> reporter: but critics say the president's commitment is weak. >> he's not kboipg into this particular meeting with putin from a position of strength, but rather of weakness. because he's already given him so many concessions. >> president biden responding to another criticism that this summit is an undeserved reward for the russian leader. >> every world leader thanked me for meeting with putin. >> reporter: >> this whole idea, somehow, ed, that you're rewarding somebody for meeting with them, i've always disagreed with it, but especially now where you need

that meeting to turn the page on four of the strangest years in u.s./russian diplomatic history. it seems to me the sooner an american president, whoever that american president may have been, who followed donald trump, the sooner the meeting, the better. >> for sure. if you look at some of the great periods of american diplomatic history, it's talking to america's worst enemies. it's forging alliances with stalin. it's talking to the chinese during the cold war, kissinger, breaking off china's relations. a monstrous power, way worse then than it is now. bringing in enormous power geopolitically to the united states and if you like to see it that way, the freedom agenda. in europe, there is no controversy about biden meeting putin. and he's doing it with perfect sequencing, having had the g-7, having had the nato summit. today, meeting all 27 european leaders, if he can stay awake.

because he's going to hear 27 statements today. >> exactly. >> so it's the perfect sequencing. he's met all of his allies. he's got them to sign up to a democracy agenda, to a covid global agenda, build back better, whatever they're calling it. and the putin's meeting comes at the end of that. i don't think there's any controversy in europe. and i think the kroefrs here is pretty rarefied. i don't think that there's that much dispute that talking to your adversaries is a good thing. >> and eileen, any republican saying that joe biden is going into a meeting with vladimir putin holding a weak hand after four years of lining up behind donald trump, well, they just don't seem to have a whole lot of credibility. >> no, no, they don't. this whole idea -- ed is completely right. this whole idea that we don't talk to our enemies is something that pretty much went away after

the bush administration. i remember during george w. bush, it was the longest time that we didn't talk to iran, or we didn't talk to -- even when condi rice first started the iran nuclear talks, under the p5 plus 1, that was a huge deal and i remember covering her in jordan when she had her first face to face with the iranian foreign minister and shook his hand and the reporters all went crazy. but that has lock been now sort of passed over. we don't -- president trump met with kim jong-un. so i don't think that's something that a republican could get behind. >> by the way, nixon met with mao. it's a preposterous argument. >> it is. it is. >> so i think the question is, i mean, first of all, to ed's

point, there's been great sequencing and messaging leading up to this meeting, but the issue here is what happened here, kasie hunt. and i think the questions that reporters feel the need to ask is, can biden really move america into a different direction when we have a section of the country that's still, you know, won't validate the election in their minds? and we have this january 6th overhanging. making -- i mean, even anne gearan asked president biden about that very issue. >> you said several times that america is back at allies' side, but a lot of those allies are pretty alarmed by what happened, and they're still alarmed by the hold that donald trump has and

the rise of figures like him around the world. what do you say to those allies? what have you been saying to them at these meetings about how the next president of the united states can keep any promises that you make? >> what i'm saying to them is, watch me. i mean. i'm not saying anything to them, quite frank. i'm just going out, people, as i've said before, don't doubt that i mean what i say. and they believe that i keep membership commitments when i say it. the leaders i'm dealing with in nato and the g-7 are leaders who know our recent history, who know generically, the character of the american people. and know where the vast center of the public stands. not democrat/republican, but who we are. we're decent, honorable nation. and i think that they have seen

things happen, as we have, that shocked them and surprised them that could have happened, but i think they, like i do, believe the american people are not going to sustain that kind of behavior. >> you know, it's really interesting, kasie, even during the trump era, you had a congress that delivered a harsh, consistent message to russia. >> right. >> so, yes, he was all over the place. and it was humiliating to this country and helsinki and beyond. but you've got the same thing now. you've got -- you've got a congress pretty unified. so this whole idea that our adversaries and our allies aren't really sure what's coming next, no matter who the next president is, congress is going to be taking a very hard line not just on russia, but, as you reported this morning, also, of course, on china.

>> yeah, no, for sure. and look, i think what was so interesting to me about the president's answer there is that he knows that american power depends on our unity, right? we, as americans, standing unified together. and that's what the europeans needed to hear. that's what all of this choreography was leading occupy this. americans are united at home and the western world is united in opposition towards russia and our posture towards china a little bit more nuanced than ours towards russia. but that's why he was talking about, i can say the broad center of our country is together. they know what america really is about. because he does have to answer those questions. i think there are more than concerns than there probably ever have been about the state of american democracy by our western allies. he talked about the american party, how fractured they were, and i think that contributes to his meeting with vladimir putin, because don't forget, putin has been trying to divide the

american public in order to gain advantage on the world stage. that has been the point of what he was doing, his interference in the 2020 election was -- in the 2016 election, was literally to sow dissent under our domestic politics to understand what's going on abroad. and that's what biden is trying to fix here. willie, it's a great point that biden made, kasie brings up. you look at a republican party, certainly on january 6th, divided, and they are divided in half about that. and you start looking at the percentage of americans who may still have these extreme views that we see in polls. it ends up being about a third, about a third of america. and so, biden can speak for at least the majority of americans, when he's overseas and can speak with some authority. i mean, there's always been divisions in this country. i know it's worse now than it's been before, because of january the 6th. but it's not like he's not the

first president who's gone overseas, that's had to deal with a large chunk of the american population pulling in the other direction. >> yeah, there were concerns yesterday, some people suggesting that he should have talked about politics, leave it at the water's edge on a foreign trip. but it's fair to say, sam stein, while the focus has been on nato and china and russia, that there is a focus, there is a thread through this visit in this america is back tour, as they're calling it, on democracy. you'll remember, one week ago today, the president's first stop was to speak to american troops in the united kingdom. and that very first speech on the tour was about this moment in history that we have to prove that democracy haze endured. he called this an inflection point in world history. and he wasn't just talking about the countries he was visiting. he wasn't just talking about europe or china and russia, he was making an oblique reference to what happened on january 6th in the united states.

>> i think this is the larger theme of the entire trip. he's trying to protect against autocracy. it's china, which is the main focus, really. not russia. and the rise of autocracies in eastern europe. and i think it becomes complicating for him to have january 6th in the backdrop, when a fellow had a stake to say, who are you to lecture us about the morality of democracy, when you had an insurrection in your own capitol, that becomes complicated for him. and i think what biden is trying to do is essentially say, you know, trust the american experiment. we will persist. we can get by january 6th, but i don't know if everyone on the global stage has that type of confidence. that's one of the things he has to do this week, is instill that type of confidence for leaders that america can be a consistent, democratic force. and i'm not a historian by any means, not like you, of course. but i don't think we've had these types of persistent doubts about american democracy to this

level, at least, in quite some time, if ever. so it's one of those cases where a domestic consideration is deeply complicated him overseas. >> i'm not a historian, but i will say, if you talk to americans who are seeing what was going on in '68, '69, they will tell you it was pretty darned bad as well. >> but putin is already trying to use this against us. if you watch the interview he did with keir simmons, he essentially tried to turn around the alexi nah value any question and say, you want to talk about political opposition and what's acceptable? and he basically compared the rioters and said, well, america's jailing the capitol rioters, aren't you the same as we are with alexei navalny, which is, you know, we've talked a lot about this classic putin tactic. and i think president biden and his white house and mike memoli has been reporting, they've been watching that interview very,

very close and you saw tactics, i'm old enough to remember, too, what the soviets did. >> how old are you? >> it's just -- >> that's the standard operating playbook. but one thing that biden can say, to both putin and to any critics right now is that at the end of the day, the american institutions held. against enormous stress. president trump really put them -- these institutions through a stress test and there were some breakages in some places, but they did hold. i was talking to a white house person a couple of weeks ago, who said, democracies are messy. that's the whole point of being a democracy, is that you can't, exactly, tell people that they can't think the way they do, including to the answer of like, how can we -- how can you ensure

that we're not going to see another trump, which is what a lot of the european leaders this week have been asking president biden. and you can't, unless you -- you know, you put in place another kind of government in the united states, and that's what they say this they don't want. >> like you say, it's messy. and ed, and i think, to of the more interesting countries right now, where we're looking at in this battle of autocracies versus democracies, have to be poland and hungary. of course, hungary, you have a leader there who's just out and out said, it's a democracy, not quite as extreme in poland and there are some signs of hope, but that really seems to be -- countries like that, where joe biden can make a very big difference vis-a-vis, you know, donald trump. >> yeah, the polls in particular, i mean, they are

fearful of russia, but they like putinism. so they're a complicated country, because they've been borrowing a lot of tactic ths f moscow. of course, orban in hungary is the original illiberal democracy champion. they are both stalwarts of nato, though, to which china has been increasingly effective overtures. so i think if we're looking at history and the bearing it could have on today, the split of china from the soviet union in the 1970s, you know, that kissinger maneuver, there is a debate around this white house and in it about whether we should have a reverse kissinger, mainly to try to sort of pry russia away from china, or at least bring it equidistant to weaken china. the big goal here isn't russia,

it's china and i think if you look at biden's agreement not to impose sanctions on the pipeline from russia, relatively muted reaction to russia's buildup of 100,000 troops on the ukrainian border, relatively muted by bide. can we pry putin away from xi jinping. >> and what we're looking at here is president biden who's meeting with european officials in brussels. he's making some comments. the audio is not great, but he's talking about the natural partnership between the u.s. and europe, and reaffirming u.s./eu relations, especially in light of his big meeting tomorrow. >> so does it make sense for russia to be in the shadow of china, to move in that direction or move in the direction of europe? >> at the end of the day, all

of -- china is -- ed is completely right. china is our biggest competitor. china wants to rule the world. russia doesn't have a prayer at doing so. they're not even in the same basket. >> so kissinger -- so henry kissinger was wrong when he wrote his book, they're just worried about themselves. >> i think is certainly no longer the case. kissinger could call you up tomorrow morning and tell you that, you know, that he wasn't -- it's such -- when you look at the american national overall national security strategy, they say, great power and conflict, they're not talking about russia. they're talking about china. china is by far and away -- they're so far ahead of us on so many things, when you look at outreach, you know, all around the world. when you look at the china's rising influence, not just in

africa or the middle east or even latin america, but europe as well. >> we've been fighting wars for 20 years, they've been building strategic alliances for 20 years. >> they have been. so it's been so interesting in the last few years watching this crystallization and this realization, this is our biggest competitor. they'll pass us economically over the next couple of years. their economy will be far greater. that is where, and particularly in the building which i cover, which is the pentagon, you talk to the tonight top generals and the yes question i ask them constantly is where is the next war? we're always asking where -- and they say that, you know, in the next 30 years, there's a strong expectation that it could be with china. and that's really scary thought when you start thinking about it. >> ed luce, thank you very much,

for being on this morning. great to see you. and still ahead on "morning joe," another blow to a possible bipartisan infrastructure deal. now it's progressives who are saying they're not onboard with the latest proposal. a member of the house democratic leadership, katherine clark, joins the table. plus, the southern baptist convention officially kicks off today. and conservatives are reportedly planning to, quote, take the ship. we'll explain the battle within that organization and the impact on elections. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watc" we'll be right back. among my patients i often see them have teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. does it worry me? absolutely. sensodyne sensitivity and gum gives us a dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. there's no question it's something that i would recommend. ♪ na na na na ♪ na na na na...

♪ hey hey hey. ♪ goodbye. ♪ na na na na... ♪ hey hey hey. ♪ goodbye. ♪ na na na na ♪ na na na na... the world's first six-function multipro tailgate. available on the gmc sierra. there's interest you accrue, the world's first six-function and interests you pursue. plans for the long term, and plans for a long weekend. at thrivent, we believe money is a tool, not a goal. to learn more, text thrive to 444555, or visit thrivent.com. i'm dad's greatest sandcastle - and greatest memory! but even i'm not as memorable as eating

turkey hill chocolate peanut butter cup ice cream with real cocoa. well, that's the way the sandcastle crumbles. you can't beat turkey hill memories. for people who could use a lift new neutrogena® rapid firming. a triple-lift serum with pure collagen. 92% saw visibly firmer skin in just 4 weeks. neutrogena® for people with skin. serena: it's my 3:10 no-exit-in-sight migraine medicine. it's ubrelvy. for anytime, anywhere migraine strikes, without worrying if it's too late, or where i am. one dose can quickly stop my migraine in its tracks within two hours. unlike older medicines, ubrelvy is a pill that directly blocks cgrp protein, believed to be a cause of migraine. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. most common side effects were nausea and tiredness. serena: ask about ubrelvy. the anytime, anywhere migraine medicine.

vo: the world is racing serena: ask about ubrelvy. to create the clean energy jobs that will solve the climate crisis. president biden has a plan to make sure america wins that race. biden: doing nothing is not an option. the world is not waiting. if we act to save the planet, we can create millions of good paying jobs. and i want to put the world on notice, america is back. the competition of the 21st century, the future, will be built right here in america. doing nothing is not an option.

after a staggering number of shootings across the country this past weekend, many police departments now are bracing for an especially violent summer. nbc news correspondent gabe gutierrez has more. >> reporter: surveillance video

captures the brazen attack in broad daylight. a cyclist stabbing a delivery man in the back. the nypd now investigating. from new york to chicago to cincinnati, violent crimes surged this weekend, at least 11 people killed, 55 wounded in ten mass shootings across seven state. >> oh, [ bleep ]. >> reporter: in austin, texas, one killed, 14 wounded. in savannah, georgia, one killed, seven wounded. >> the senseless acts of violence in our communities have to stop. >> reporter: just this year in the u.s., there have been 273 mass shootings, defined as any incident where four or more were shot. there have been 31 so far this june and we're not only halfway through the month. what is going on here? >> we've seen a lot of the pandemic-related issues, related to mental health, unemployment, financial stress combined with a lot of the retaliatory violence

that happens in a lot of the inner cities. >> reporter: but vs. even more than usual. portland, oregon, has seen a staggering 740% spike in homicides since last year. with this neighborhood with children watching, bullet holes are now common. >> my wish is for people out there who have guns to stop killing people. >> reporter: gabe gutierrez reporting there. we've talked about this on the show for a long time now, that part of the frustration from law enforcement is that we've seen these historic declines in crime from the late '80s and early '90s and police officers worry that we're slipping back into that place. >> for some, it was 1993, for 1994 race. let me tell you something. nobody was talking about criminal justice reform then. nobody was talking about how they hated crime bills then. when crime is rising the way it is, it completely reshapes the debate in any political

campaign. so i remember, then, and i know when we were at a 50-year low, as far as crime goes, and people started criticizing the '94 crime bill, i just sat here, and i was quiet. there are parts of it, i know, that are terrible, but the 100,000 cops on the street, all of these other things, very popular then. they were doing three strikes, you're out. again, a lot of things that when crime is at a 50-year low, suddenly seem offensive and seem like they're going over the mark. but, michael, as you know, when crime is spiking the way it was spiking now, the way it was spiking in new york city in the '70s and the '80s, you -- or people wonder why democrats voted for rudy giuliani. they voted for rudy giuliani for one reason, it was about the crime. when crime goes high, it reshapes the political debate and everybody needs to be ready for that political debate to be reshaped going into 2022. >> it does. and you've got a number of

factors right now that i think are going to be very interesting to watch how they play out. first off, you've got the relationship between police and the communities that they protect and serve in. so, it's not just the racial tensions, but just more broadly speaking, how do we interact with our police now going forward? the other piece is, you know, what gabe put his finger on is those currents that are running underneath the surface that are driving this narrative of violence. and what's really the root cause here? i think when you talk about the crime bill in the 190s, it was a reaction to the overwhelming surge crime, all right? so this was the government response. the test now will be whether or not we're more methodical in understanding what's driving it. is it economic, racial, political? what are some of these factors so you can mitigate against those with a more narrowly tailored approach, as opposed to this broad, sweeping crime bill

in the 21st century that 15 years from now, people will say, why the hell did they pass that? >> so what you're saying is no midnight basketball. >> to midnight basketball. >> so kasie, there is right now, obviously, police reform that's going on the hill. it seems with a spike in crime, with us hearing from people like commissioner bratton and others that police officers are back on their heels and they are just not taking the chances they took one year ago, two years ago, the good cops, it seems it's such a critically important bill. any chances that's going to happen? >> i'm still hope. and i think if you talk to the negotiators who are working through it right now, they're hopeful they can get there. i think to your point, michael, the trust piece of this is so critically important. and one of the things tim scott has been doing is working very carefully with law enforcement

advocacy organizations on this to try to find the right balance. no cop wants to work with someone who's throwing ethics they all want to work with out the window. we can all acknowledge, there are people who don't do their jobs the way they're supposed to on police forces. and tim scott has been pretty clear-eyed about saying that, and also saying if those people are the once setting the culture, that's a problem and they need to be held accountable. but there's a recognition that we need to handle qualified immunity carefully. because we want good people to decide that they want to be cops. that they want to be our police officers. and if they're scared they're going to lose their entirely livelihoods and won't be able to take care of their families if something goes wrong, that's not a good outcome, either. the good news is there does seem to be a trusting relationship between tim scott, cory booker, there seems to be faith if they can come to an agreement, this will be something that you see passed with broad bipartisan support. >> and those three are -- it seems to me, bending over

backwards, trying to figure out a way to make this work. tim scott, cory booker, karen bass. all seem to be working hard on this. >> i sensed more optimism a couple of weeks ago, than i do now. >> i think that's true, but i don't think it's done yet. >> it's not done yet, and it's, obviously, for all the reasons kasie articulated, it's a difficult balancing act, but the person who gets it outside of the senators is joe biden. you saw joe biden's campaign platform while a lot of his party was calling removing funds from the police force, his plan called for investing more funds in policing. the '94 crime bill kind of loomed over him a little bit during the primary, but during the general election, he was resisting the urges of his party to move in a different direction. i suppose if he gets into this debate, he will rye to make that balancing act work. >> there's new polling in the democratic primary race for new york city mayor showing brooklyn borough president and former

police officer eric adams extending his lead. the poll taken by wnbc, telemundo 47, and marist college gives adams a seven-point lead over katherine garcia. sitting in third is former council to mayor bill de blasio, maya wiley, who recently gained the endorsement of kmam ocasio-cortez. and former presidential candidate andrew yank, who was one time seen as a front-runner finds himself in fourth place. 13% of likely voters still remain undecided. early voting is already underway for the primary, which the election coming up next tuesday. >> and willie, with new york's rules for counting votes and ballots, we should know who the next mayor of new york city is before we know who the next president of the united states

is in 2024. but it's going to be close. this rank choice voting system, that poll we just saw told one story, but no one will get to 50%, so then they get into rank choice voting. i won't bore you with a full explanation. it gets more complicated. interesting, based on the conversation we were just having there, eric adams, it's worth noting, is a former police officer. served more than 20 years in the new york police department. part of his message is acknowledging the crime rate. but getting smarter about policing. putting more cops on the streets. he leads right now. katherine garcia has had a recent surge, the sanitation commissioner. and maya wiley who has picked up the accommodations, shoring up her progressive bona fides.

>> so did i understand that they're going to cast the ballots and take the ballots to warehouses and hold them for a couple of weeks before they -- did i hear that correctly? >> there's some hand counting that's going to go on in the year 2021. we'll be in warehouses shuffling through paper ballots to see who gets cut off the bottom in the first round. it's a very complicated system. some people like the idea of rank choice. we'll see how it goes here in new york city. this is the biggest place obviously in america that it's been used. but it's going to be a longer process and i suspect a frustrating one for a lot of new yorkers.

up next, there are ten senators working on a bipartisan infrastructure deal, but senator bernie sanders said yesterday frankly, i wouldn't vote for it. assistant house speaker katherine clark joins us here in washington after break. katherinn washington after break [sfx: thunder rumbles] [sfx: rainstorm] ♪♪ comfort in the extreme.

♪♪ the lincoln family of luxury suvs. we've got you taken care of, sgt. houston. thank you. that was fast! one call to usaa got her a tow, her claim paid... ...and even her grandpa's dog tags back. get a quote. ♪welcome back to that same old place♪ ♪that you laughed about♪ ♪well, the names have all changed♪ ♪since you hung around♪ welcome back, america. it sure is good to see you. i've lost count of how many asthma attacks i've had. welcome back, america. but my nunormal with nucala? fewer asthma attacks. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection-site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your doctor about nucala.

find your nunormal with nucala. how am i doing? some say this is my greatest challenge ever. governments in record debt; inflation rising and currencies falling. but i've seen centuries of rises and falls. i had a love affair with tulips once. lived through the crash of '29 and early dot-com hype. watched mortgages play the villain beside a true greek tragedy. and now here i am, with one companion that's been with me for millennia; hedging the risks you choose and those that choose you. the physical seam of a digital world, traded with a touch. my strongest ally and my closest asset. the gold standard, so to speak ;) people call my future uncertain. but there's one thing i am sure of...

another day, another chance. it could be the day you break the sales record, or the day there's appointments nonstop. with comcast business, you get the network that can deliver gig speeds

to the most businesses, and you can get the advanced cybersecurity solutions you need with comcast business securityedge. every day in business is a big day. we'll keep you ready for what's next. get started with a great offer, and ask how you can add comcast business securityedge. plus, for a limited time,ask how to get a $500 prepaid card when you upgrade. call today. welcome back to "morning joe." 42 past the hour. some democrats are hardening their position on bipartisan infrastructure talks after a tense meeting last night with the ten senators working on a deal, senator bernie sanders told reporters, quote, i wouldn't vote for it. it has to be paid for in a progressive way, given the fact that we have massive income and wealth inequality in america. and "the washington post" notes that some other democrats want to see more action, specifically

on climate change, added to the bill. joining us now, assistant speaker of the house, democratic congresswoman katherine clark of massachusetts. does bernie sanders have a point? >> thank you. it is so good to be with you in person this morning. and listen, we are encouraged by bipartisan talks. this is how we're supposed to operate. but we are also committed to meeting this moment of racial, economic, and climate justice. we know what this past year has been like. the losses for the american people. and this is our chance. not just to build back to status quo, but to build an economy that works for everyone. and that starts with making sure that we're creating great jobs, roads, bridges, broadband, that we are addressing climate change with the urgency that it deserves. but it's also equally as important to look at child care and elder care as critical,

economic infrastructure. >> you've got to get 60 votes, though, or get 50 votes, if joe manchin says you have to get 50 votes. that's a pretty long agenda -- >> i think bernie sanders would agree with the list that you just put forward, but what are the sticking points? >> let's look at how popular these items are with the american people. this is extremely bipartisan everywhere in the country, except for in the beltway. and what we are going to continue to do is to tap into that enthusiasm, because we are meeting the challenges of the american people. we did it in the american rescue plan, unfortunately, without a single republican vote. we met with vaccines, got schools reopened, supported our small businesses. and now we have to make sure that we are meeting the american

people where they are and use this moment to be transform. with a 33-year low of women participating in the workforce, we know that the care agenda is as critical infrastructure as any road or bridge. >> we understand what bernie is doing. we've all been talking about joe manchin, joe manchin, joe manchin. if i were bernie or a progressive, i would have said this a long time ago. but for me, it's hopeful in that it's part of the process. let's have the debate, let's have it going bfrd and at some point, you've got to figure out -- you've got to figure out how to get it, again, either to 60 votes or if joe manchin says 50 votes, how to get to 50 votes. >> that for me is the rub here.

i come from a world of basic raw politics and the numbers. you don't have the numbers, even though you have the majority, you don't have the numbers. >> and i understand here, the american people like it. >> but the american people want a 94% reform on gun control, too, and didn't get it. so politicians don't really pay attention to what the american people really want, because if they did, we would have the kind of reforms in place already going back 10, 15 years. but here's the rub. the problem becomes, pull together a bill that you need to put the president's agenda forward. instead of getting into child care and the government and all of these other things. if the country at the end of the day is like, can you fix the pothole and repair the bridge, put together the bill that does

just that. and then at the next level, take it out. what's wrong with that strategy politically to create the momentum and move the american people with you in that agenda. >> you're saying get the hard infrastructure done. >> because here's what we do on our side. we look at that and go, oh, okay, so baby care versus a bridge. we'll pay for the bridge, we ain't paying for baby care now, right? so you give them the excuse not to get behind the bill that would create the success -- >> by the way, i do not associate myself with michael steele's remarks. you're saying that's what the republicans are saying. >> you know that's the politics in washington. you've heard the argument around all of these things that have nothing to do with the hard infrastructure elements of moving that agenda forward. >> so what about that idea, hard

infrastructure and run them over with infrastructure. >> i wouldn't want michael to meet with a group of moms i met with yesterday in my district. >> i understand. >> you are digging a hole. >> i miss my garage. >> i'm saying, take that argument away from them. >> here's what i'm saying. any saw broad bipartisan agreement saying, this is where we are on these, you know,

traditional infrastructure, i might feel differently. but we're seeing an american rescue plan that got zero republican votes. what we're seeing is a commission on january 6th that failed. only got four republican votes. so where is this commitment, except to obstruction. if they want to work with american families again, we welcome that. but what we're seeing is an absolutely resistance. so we'll break a package up, was it will not be an either or. we cannot afford to leave families at home behind. and this is -- i'm resolved.

and it's much like voting rights. we simply can't afford to say, well, this is hard, you know? we're not sure we're going to do it. i've been thinking about john lewis, who we lost almost a year ago. and he told us, lewis who we lost almost a year ago. and he told us, freedom is in a state. freedom is an act. and this is our time to act. to protect these fundamentals of our democracy and to rebuild an economy that works for american families. so that is where we are. and let's hope that republicans decide they want to join us. >> so, kasie, that is where joe biden was in april when he gave the speech. here we are in june and we're seeing again whether it is on the january 6 commission or whether it is on infrastructure, whether it is on hr-1, whether it is on hr-4, real resistance

and the question becomes at what point to the democrats hunker down and figure out what can we pass? what can we pass with 60 votes or what can we pass with joe manchin at 50 votes and hr-1 is a great example. it is not going to pass. in its current form it will never pass. so do democrats make the tough decisions and basically call the republicans -- because i think at the end of the day this is calling the republicans' bluff and having joe manchin, who by the way has done this before. so all of these 21-year-old bloggers or tweeters, mention joe manchin, please save your breath. and people say joe manchin is afraid to do something politically, you want there after newtown when the man in west virginia started pushing

gun control. i have a feeling that manchin is playing this out and he gave mitch mcconnell a chance on january 6 and mitch and i'm sure in joe manchin's view did not play in good faith. so the question is, how long does this play out. what are you hearing on the hill? at what point do democrats strip down these bills, call the republicans bluff, and say, okay, joe, we tried, come on. >> i think they are rapidly approaching that period. the frustration seems to be building among democrats that i'm talking to about how long is it taking. because they expect they might -- the house next year and if they do that then this is all of the time that joe biden has. and my question for you congresswoman, is really about what is actually hard here. we're talking about all of the good things you want to put in the bill. totally get it. hard to argue with any of that. but the president has said we have got to pay for it and that is why bernie sanders' comments

are coming in. don't raise the gas tax, he wants to raise taxes on corporations and republicans say absolutely not. i'm struggling to see how you get there, especially considering there are a lot of moderate democrats who are nervous about the idea of raising business taxes and the taxes on the wealthy that hit places like family farms or areas of the country where the cost of living is much higher. so how nervous are you that you're not going to be able to get all of the democrats on the same page on this? >> i'm not worried about the democrats because i know that we are committed. >> counting to 50 in the senate, that is the hard part. and manchin, he's not out there on a limb alone. he's covering for some other democrats that don't want to stick their necks out. >> the best thing to look at with democrats is our history. and we've come together time and time again. let's just go back to march with the american rescue plan. we have a very diverse caucus but we came together to say this is the time that we fund

businesses, that we make sure our schools are reopened, that we get vaccines in arms, free of cost. >> so this is memorial day and here we are heading into fourth of july and we still aren't anywhere on infrastructure. >> we're committing to saying if we could get a bipartisan agreement. but at some point, you're right, we have to move forward. >> when do you want this to be done? when do you do it on your own? >> i want this to be done as soon as possible because the american people need it. but we also have to make sure that we get as many votes as possible for this. and that we are making the case to the american people about meeting this moment for them. but here is the thing, is that we have to look at the wealth gap in this country, the income gap and be serious about it and we have a chance to look at our tax code and to inject fairness

back into it middle class and the devotion to user fees and the republicans are not seeing that it is time for us to give american working families a break. and they already pull their fair share. >> that is quite a change by the way, the old gas tax it used to be democrats and republicans saying no. everything is switched now. i know you don't want to talk a lot of domestic policy. i'm wondering if you want to associate with michael steele's comments that he loves babies. >> i love babies. i'm wondering why has this debate not sort of moved into a more -- how is it playing in peoria? we have after a coronavirus pandemic where americans were brought face-to-face with all of

the limitations of a lot of what the republican mode of government has offered. we're still not seeing the sort of -- the national conversation about child health care and the sort of things that you guys are putting in -- want to put in this infrastructure bill on a national, like, in bars and homes and all of that. how do you move the conversation to where i think democrats actually could -- >> i actually see it as totally different. when i go home, when i talk to my members from around the country, in very different places. blue states, red, purple, this care agenda is understood and supported. >> absolutely. that is the point i'm making. but the republicans both seem to be harmed by the stance that they are taking at this moment. >> well, not at this moment. but let's go back. i think back to the moment with the aca when republicans in the house were looking to strip

health care from millions of american families. i could litly walk the office halls and hear those phones ringing. as the speaker reminds us, this comes down to public sentiment and poll after poll shows the american people want to be seen. they elected democrats in 2020 for bold change. >> but that was the case of the an entitlement, very hard to take away. that is not the case now with the infrastructure bill. but these are the fundamentals of our economy. and if we say we're going back to what we were in the narrow interpretation of infrastructure, we are going to lose this moment. and we are going to lose the faith of american people. they elected us to see them. to put policies in place that address the issues that keep them up at night. and that is how do they provide for their families and if they play by the rules, that they

could have a shot at success. that is our focus. >> really quickly, we're coming up to the top of the hour, michael, helene is asking a great question and i don't know there is a great answer to it right now, but you have all of the pieces of legislation that are extraordinarily popular, 65%, 70, 75%, and babies also. it is an issue, my friend. but that goes back to the point where you said ever since newtown expanded, background checks, 90%. the question is how do democrats convert republican incal sit rants. >> that is the point. and it is not articulated well and i will form the republicans for baby caucus. i don't want america to get upset. i'm with you on this. i'm saying politically how do we get to the point where we get

the win and that is what the president is trying to do. so i was saying to your point, joe, and kasie knows this, there are republicans and democrats of a mind that would move to that space, that safer space on a narrowly tailored agenda that deals with infrastructure as the country defines infrastructure and that is roads and bridges and et cetera. >> and why would democrats go there if the republicans will vote no any way. that is the question democrats are asking. and i think -- >> but you go there and you vote because i think you pull some -- >> i would force republicans to vote no on issues every day and then i would use it for -- >> katherine clark, thank you very much. we really appreciate you being on. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> great to see you in person. and still ahead, the chairman of the senate phone relations committee bob menendez joins us ahead of the president's

face-to-face with vladimir putin. plus california set to lift coronavirus restrictions today. but overseas british prime minister boris johnson is delaying the u.k. reopening amid concerns over variants. morning joe is back in one minute. back in one minute oduct of mastery. get 0.9% apr financing on the 2021 es 350. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. among my patients i often see them get 0.9% apr financing have teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. does it worry me? absolutely. sensodyne sensitivity and gum gives us a dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. there's no question it's something that i would recommend. ♪eh uh, eh uh♪ ♪flow (oh my gosh)♪ ♪where man go (oh my gosh)♪ ♪if a man see me (oh my gosh)♪ ♪i guess you never know what you got 'til it's♪ ♪flow (oh my gosh)♪ ♪where man go (oh my gosh)♪ ♪if a man see me (oh my gosh)♪

♪i guess you never know what you got 'til it's♪ ♪eh uh, eh uh eh uh, eh uh eh uh, eh uh eh uh♪ >> i have been very, very direct with secretary stoltenberg and members of the alliance in saying that nato members must finally contribute their fair share and meet their financial obligations. >> i just want all of europe to know that the united states is there. the united states is there. >> 23 of the 28 member nations are still not paying what they should be paying and what their supposed to be paying for their defense. >> i want to make it clear, nato is critically important for u.s.

interest in and of itself. if there weren't one, we would have to invent one. >> that is a little different, isn't it. >> just a smidge. >> of course the last president when he would talk about the 2%, he spoke as if there was some big gigantic pot somewhere where everybody was throwing the money. oh, i get -- >> all of their money. >> it just didn't work that way. >> president biden and former president trump with starkly different messages to nato allies at each of their first nato summits as president. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, june 15th. come on in. come on. it's kind of exciting actually to see the camera. and look, human beings. >> i was telling elizabeth, i sort of am enjoying the howard hughes thing. >> yeah, he sits there with the

camera. >> exactly. >> and talking to willie. along with joe and willie and me we have former chairman of the republican national committee and msnbc political analyst michael steele. good to see you. in person. and columnist and editor for -- david ignatius. and elizabeth bumiller is with us. >> it is very frightening out here. we told phil 15 years ago, it doesn't matter where, you are could be in a closet and if you deliver the content, everything works out all right. and the clause that -- but i'm missing the closet right now. but it is great to be with willie. we can't wait to see you here as well. >> yeah, i'm hitchhiking my way down. i'm south of philly, i topped into a bus stop to do the show. but the space, that is the

longest tracking shot since good fellas through the kitchen. >> it really is something. david ignatius, we shared some points last year and this year, obviously a big difference. something occurs to me this week. that we have the meeting, with boris johnson and then we have the g-7 and and now nato, and boris johnson, g7, meeting with putin, i'm a dork i go back and say what was our gdp last year. we're $21 trillion. they use about $19 trillion and i still add great britain. their still our allies. that is $40 trillion of wealth a year. $40 trillion of wealth. that is pretty good. that is almost the japan that

could say no. do you remember that book from '89, the japanese were going to turn us into their grainery. russia $1.4 trillion. it seems if we just take care of the home team together, this is what i wish politicians would explain, it is $40 trillion of strength and wealth and you look at our defense spending it dwarves like china, russia, and all of the enemies every day and yes, we should still be concerned, but i wondering if we're continuing to focus too much on the wrong thing instead of focusing on how important it is having good relations with our best allies, how important that really is and how we're unasaleable if we take care of things first. >> this is a lesson that it is always sensible to remember the

numbers, just how strong the u.s. is. but we had a demonstration of this this week. the biden team talked in their preliminary conversations about the trips that they're going to say america is back and remind the world of american leadership. but we saw this week exactly what that means in practice. i'm told that every one of these meetings involved leaders who were almost clamoring to sit down with biden. you had a difficult leader like president erdogan of turkey ranting before the meeting. zipped it. said nothing. biden gave a bland statement about how it was productive and whatever. >> like some of the other leaders on the world stage, he has a long time relationship with erdogan. >> so he has a long time relationship. but i think the point is that the steam america's back now has

a practical face and that is biden. he's calm. he doesn't take the bait. people say is putin a killer, he wants to -- just refuses to repeat that on the eve of his meeting with putin because he's a lot calmer and comfortable in this position as a leader. so, on the eve of the meeting with putin, which surely does matter, i think biden could say he got everything out of this trip so far that he would have wanted and most of all the basics that you're talking about. america astronger, economy growing like gang buster and we vaccinated a huge percentage of our population, he is the strong leader of this alliance. and it shows in england and in brussels. >> and the messaging matched the moment. nato leaders used yesterday to show a united front against threats from russia and china, the group declared kline a global security challenge

quoting their assertive behavior. and russia said it will be business as usual until russia demonstrates compliance with international law. but in biden's news conference yesterday, "the washington post" ann geren asks the president how he reassured allies that american democracy is strong in the wake of the attack on the capitol. >> -- said several times that america is back at allies side, but a lot of those allies are themselves pretty rattled by what happened on january 6, an attempted overturning of your election. and they may still be alarmed by the continued hold that donald trump has over the republican party and the rise of nationalist figures like him around the world. what do you say to those allies, what have you been saying to them at these meetings about how the next president of the united states can keep any promises you

make? >> what i'm saying is -- to them is watch me. and i'm not saying anything quite frankly. i'm just going out, people as i've said before, don't doubt that i mean what i say and they believe that i keep my commitments when i say it. the leaders i'm dealing with in nato and the g7 are leaders who know our recent history, know generically that the character of the american people and know where the vast center of the public stands. not democrat or republican, but who we are. we're a decent honorable nation and i think that they have seen things happen as we have that shock and surprise them that could have happened. but i think they, like i do, believe the american people are not going to sustain that kind

of behavior. the republican party is vastly diminished in numbers. the leadership of the republican party is fractured and the trump wing of the party is the bulk of the party, but it makes up a significant minority of the american people. >> so i have to appreciate just him methodically honestly, elizabeth, answering the question. i don't disagree with ann's question. i think there are a lot of questions on the world stage that address the issue as to whether or not this is a four year bliss and then america continues to slide or is joe biden going to put a stake in the ground and keep us moving forward in the democrat that we are. but yet the stories that david is sharing, about world leaders clamoring to get in america's face, and the america is back statement, while it is garnering some questions from the press,

i'm not sure what more joe biden can do. beyond what he's doing which is messaging and showing. >> you saw how long it took him to answer. >> it took his time. >> a long pause before answering the question. and obviously the white house is concerned about that. and underneath all of this, of this warmth and celebration of joe biden, it is a real concern among the european leaders as i say this is just between trump and -- trump again or a trump-like character. and what happened on january 6 shocked us, shocked the world and it is till out there. you see the number of republican who support trump and who think that joe biden is not the properly elected president. it worries the white house and the europeans. so joe biden, you're right, can't promise that this is now going to be smooth sailing from here on in. >> and yet he must.

>> willie. >> michael steele, there are the adage about leaving politics at the water's edge and the president shouldn't talk about politics overseas when he was there. he was asked a direct question, i suspect part of the pause at the top was because of that. but his message across this last week and across the world has been we are back, the last four years, many pieces of it arnt who we are in the united states. he's trying to make the impression that was a blip. do you think the world is buying? >> i do. not only are they buying it, their hopeful from it. they have a high degree of expectation. we open the program with the comparison of the two presidents, trump and biden, with the nato alliance. and one was transactional and you owe us money and you guys aren't carrying your weight and the other is what -- we're

partners, we're working together. so at one level they want to hear that. they want to reconnect to the washington and the president and the u.s. that they used to be connected to, but then also to the other points about, okay, so what does it look like? well joe biden can't worry about 2024 with 2021 right in front of him. and so he's going to do this methodically. he took that pause for a reason. he wanted to show that what he was about to say, he looked at it and took it seriously. and i think for a lot of our european allies, this is the first time in what, four, five years, they're sitting there going this seems right, this seems normal. we could do this. >> that is the nato summit. tomorrow is president biden's meeting with vladimir putin. what the white house hopes to accomplish and the strategy behind avoiding a news conference. "morning joe" is coming right back. ck mbles] [sfx: rainstorm] ♪♪

comfort in the extreme. ♪♪ the lincoln family of luxury suvs. from prom dresses to workouts ♪♪ and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. liberty mutual customizes car insurance so you only pay for what you need. how much money can liberty mutual save you?

one! two! three! four! five! 72,807! 72,808... dollars. yep... everything hurts. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ finding new routes to reach your customers, and new ways for them to reach you... is what business is all about.

it's what the united states postal service has always been about. so as your business changes, we're changing with it. with e-commerce that runs at the speed of now. next day and two-day shipping nationwide. same day shipping across town. returns right from the doorstep, and deliveries seven days a week. it's a whole new world out there. let's not keep it waiting. [sfx: thunder rumbles] [sfx: rainstorm] ♪♪ comfort in the extreme. ♪♪ the lincoln family of luxury suvs.

i'm going to make clear to president putin that there are areas where we can cooperate if he chooses. and the areas where we don't agree, make it clear what the red lines are. i had met with him. he's bright, he's tough, and i've found that he is a, as they say, when one used to play ball, a worthy adversary. >> david, he's also resentful. it is a foreign policy, we've all talked about before, the greatest cat astro fear of the 20th century, he believes it was a collapse of the soviet union and he lives that out every day and it seems one president after another underestimates vladimir putin.

does this one? >> we'll have to see just how the meeting goes. but it is been really striking to me, the demeanor of the two leaders in the run-up to the summit. putin in the interview that kier simmons from nbc did with him, seemed to me almost truck you'llent. take me seriously. and that russia has been part of putin but never seen it more sharply defined. and here is biden, we'll see what happens. we want to make agreements if we can. but we're going to make clear what the red lines are. he's a worthy adversary, and the opposite of the kind of nasty sharp language that putin was using and opening the door to some reasonable balance. and i think if putin is looking

for the small -- to shake hands with a strong president, which i think biden show this is week he actually is, biden has given it to him, how biden set himself up pretty well to be sharp about some very specific noes, some red lines, on cyber and ransomware, there are red lines coming out of this meeting. so it is so different in tone from trump. he's not a supplicant. he doesn't need putin. doesn't want to be putin's friend. i thought the worthy adversary who is just right in saying, i'm ready to sit down with you. i'll give you that. but i'm not going to give you anything else. >> elizabeth, what does the white house want to take away from the putin? >> i think from the beginning just lower the temperature, deemphasize putin despite this meeting, the fact that joe biden is not having a press conference

afterwards. >> what is the strategy? >> don't put them together on the world stage. don't bring putin up to your level. and biden can control the message after it as can putin of course. but don't -- i can't forget trump and putin in helsinki, midway through the trump administration. it was one of the most astonishing public performs i've ever seen of an american president where trump basically agreed with putin over his own intelligence agencies. and this is a far cry from that. completely different. and i do think that i want to de-emphasize putin, show that biden is strong, i could deal with him but i'm not going to get all worked up over this guy. i think that is the strategy. >> a very clear message if he wants on a number of levels, one-on-one. but maybe he couldn't have 30 years ago. he's had a lot of experience on the world stage and made a lot of mistakes and he's lost a lot and that is, like, the exact

great recipe for someone who will go into a meeting and say, you know what, this is what i need. and you're going to have to make it happen. >> and we've seen a lot of presidents recently make mistakes. george w. bush saying i looked into his eyes and i saw his soul. we remember barack obama whispering to -- hey, listen, after the election i'm going to have a lot more freedom to get things done. and of course we saw donald trump time and time again, the low point being helsinki. three up, three down. i give you that side was retired and now here is the fourth president going up against vladimir putin. it is hard to imagine after all of those miscalculations, we haven't even talked about hitting the button with the re-set. after all of the miscalculations, it is hard to believe that we would have yet another president who would

repeat the same mistakes. >> it is just not in his nature. the president, biden is a student of institutions. he comes out of the senate. he's come out of white house. he's got this broad base, as he tell you. you has relationships with a lot of the leaders. >> and by the way, he's made a lot of mistakes himself, he famously said made a lot of mistakes himself but he's learned from this. >> and he has been in that role and understands it well and he knows who is sitting across from him tomorrow. and he is less interested in what is in his soul and some sighs and cutting a secret deal after an election or capitulating to him as what we saw trump did. and david put a finger on it, he's going to draw some red lines that we have not drawn with putin in a while. >> coming up, from full capacity sports crowds to the state of california lifting its restrictions today. the latest signs that america is

rising from the pandemic. "morning joe" is back in a moment. some say this is my greatest challenge ever. but i've seen centuries of this. with a companion that powers a digital world, traded with a touch. the gold standard, so to speak ;)

i became a sofi member because i needed to consolidate my credit card debt. i needed just one simple way to pay it all off. it was an easy decision to apply with sofi loans, just based on the interest rate and how much i would be saving. there was only one that stood out and one that actually made sense and that was sofi personal loans. it felt so freeing. i felt like i was finally out of this neverending trap of interest and payments and debt. ♪♪ bipolar depression. it's a dark, lonely place. this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression. emptiness. a hopeless struggle. the lows of bipolar depression can disrupt your life and be hard to manage. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms, and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. now i'm feeling connected. empowered.

latuda is not for everyone. call your doctor about unusual mood changes, behaviors or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. elderly dementia patients on latuda have an increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, as these may be life-threatening, or uncontrollable muscle movements as these may be permanent. these are not all the serious side effects. this is where i want to be. talk to your doctor and ask if latuda could make the difference you've been looking for in your bipolar depression symptoms. my nunormal? fewer asthma attacks with nucala. a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala reduces eosinophils, a key cause of severe asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your doctor about nucala. find your nunormal with nucala.

this is what it feels like to be 100%. root, root, root for the -- if they don't win it's a shame. for it's one, two, three strikes you're out at the old ball game. >> oh, my ears. >> yes. >> willie geist, finally a worthy successor to harry caray at wrigley. bill murray is a hard guy to find but when do you find him, he always delivers a

performance. but there at wrigley celebrating the reopening at 100%. and more good news, california is lifting covid restrictions today. >> yeah, the economy there has been booming under restrictions. one of the last to lift a lot of these. california today will lift covid restrictions according to new guidelines fully vaccinated people will not be required to wear a mask. vaccine verification or negative covid 19 tests will be required by the state for a venue to operate under certain crowded circumstances. meanwhile, great britain prime minister boris johnson has delayed plans to lift restrictions by a month as the delta variant surges across the united kingdom. the news comes amid questions over vaccine mandates here in the united states and a federal judge tossed out a lawsuit filed by hospital employees in texas. nbc news correspondent miguel almaguer has more. >> reporter: as the nation marks

the loss of more tan 600,000 lives, the delta variant first identified in india remains the most serious threat here at home. after exploding across the u.k. and now extending that nation's lockdown for another month, a new analysis suggest the fully vaccinated is more than 90% protected against hospitalization from the variant. >> if you are vaccinated, you are protected. >> reporter: but a fight is underway against vaccinations. a federal judge has just dismissed a lawsuit at houston methodist hospital siding with the medical center that is requiring all 25,000 employees be vaccinated by june 21st or face termination. >> we're prepared to be terminated at this point. >> reporter: nurse jennifer bridges said the small group will appeal. but as more hospitals require vaccinations as part of employment, more protests and litigation are coming. >> you can't just go into work

and say i don't want to do these things, you're not going to be working there too long. pretty soon the employer is going to recognize vaccination is part of a safe workplace. >> in addition to hospitals, select airlines and universities are requiring some employees to get vaccinated. and now with an estimated 30% of americans still not back at the office, the legal groundwork is now set for more businesses to follow suit. >> coming up, the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee, bob menendez joins us to discuss his expectations for the president's summit with putin and the implications of vice president harris's trip to central america. "morning joe" is coming right back.

among my patients i often see them have teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. does it worry me? absolutely. sensodyne sensitivity and gum gives us a dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. there's no question it's something that i would recommend. it's my 5:52 woke-up-like-this migraine medicine. it's ubrelvy. for anytime, anywhere migraine strikes, without worrying if it's too late, or where i am. one dose can quickly stop my migraine in its tracks within two hours. unlike older medicines, ubrelvy is a pill that directly blocks cgrp protein, believed to be a cause of migraine. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. most common side effects were nausea and tiredness. ask about ubrelvy. the anytime, anywhere migraine medicine.

psoriatic arthritis, made my joints stiff, swollen, painful. tremfya® is approved to help reduce joint symptoms in adults with active psoriatic arthritis. some patients even felt less fatigued. serious allergic reactions may occur. tremfya® may increase your risk of infections

and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. tremfya®. emerge tremfyant™. janssen can help you explore cost support options. are the color cartridges in your printer ready for another school year? tremfya®. emerge tremfyant™. what's cyan mean? it means "cyan-ora" honor roll. the epson ecotank. no more cartridges. it comes with an incredible amount of ink. just fill and chill. centrum multigummies aren't just great tasting... they're power-packed vitamins... that help unleash your energy. loaded with b vitamins... ...and other key essential nutrients... ...it's a tasty way to conquer your day. try centrum multi gummies. now with a new look.

[ "me and you" by barry louis polisar ] ♪ me and you just singing on the train ♪ ♪ me and you listening to the rain ♪ ♪ me and you we are the same ♪ ♪ me and you have all the fame we need ♪ ♪ indeed, you and me are we ♪ ♪ me and you singing in the park ♪ ♪ me and you, we're waiting for the dark ♪ 35 past the hour.

look at this incredible studio that we're in here in washington. russet and bill clinton. that is the meet the wall. it is great to be here and see our friends in person. joining us now democratic senator bob menendez of new jersey. michael steele, kasie hunt and stam stein are all back with us as well along with joe, willie and me. it is good to have you, sir. >> so mr. chairman, what is your take on the past week? >> i think it is incredibly successful for president biden. think he has united our allies in a way that we haven't seen over the last four years, invigorated alliance, helped set the agenda at it and for nato to list china as one of the strategic competitions for nato, i think it an incredible success. >> what do you want to see joe

biden accomplish? what is the take away, the so-called deliverable after this meeting with vladimir putin. i think everybody has to be happening with what has happened with g7 and nato. just about everybody, at least. what about with putin. what is the deliverable? >> i want him to speak to putin the way he knows putin is. putin is a killer. he said it. he was right when he said it. and that is what he is. chemical attacks using a chemical weapons international law and annexing its neighbors. listen, we want a stable predictable relationship. but we have to understand who we're speaking to. we're speaking to someone who uses chemical weapons to assassinate niz opponents and someone who tears territories aside from his neighbors as he did in crimea. we are speaking about someone who committed war crimes in syria. and so i think president biden clearly understands what he's

confronting and he wants to send him a very strong message. >> so some are arguing that those war crimes are continuing in syria right now. hundreds of thousands of syrians starving to death, asad is doing that, to break them down with the help of vladimir putin. how important is it that biden brings up the plight of those still suffering. >> it is part of what i think his agenda will be with putin. the first elements with putin is what he's done to the united states. the solar winds attack, the ransomware and the continuous challenges to our own national security. this is the new frontier. and if you have a cyberattack that could undermine critical infrastructure in the united states and effect americans, that would be the equivalent of dropping a bomb. >> so how do we find common ground? we've had to find common ground with the soviet union, we of

course had one salt treaty after another of stark treaties. where do we find common ground with vladimir putin and russia? >> well i think the president did it at the early stages, right, when he extended the star treaty. i think that is incredibly important on the questions of nuclear weapons, everyone has enough who possesses them for mutual self-destruction. we don't need to move further. so that is an area that we could engage in. in a question of international terrorism, that is the opportunity engage in. on the question of global pandemics, that is an opportunity engage in. >> and willie in new york has a question for you. >> good morning, senator menendez, you mentioned the solar winds and the ob going attacks, perhaps not state sponsored or state tolerated by vladimir putin and his regime. you called for the president to be more assertive. what does it mean like to be

more assertive. does that mean pushing back with cyberattacks on our own. what do you see here. >> there are more sanctions that could be levied. he actually has an opportunity to effect putin's oligarchs and go after those people, stop their visas to the united states, get europe to join in the same effort, freeze their accounts. you'll see how you get putin's attention. and there is mandatory chemical weapons sanctions under the law that have not been levied yet that need to be levied as well. these are three very powerful actions. >> what is your sense, senator, of the way vladimir putin views this president. he know he felt a great affinity for donald trump and he reiterated that in his interview with keir simmons and how do you think putin is looking at this president differently than previous administrations? >> well, he knows he doesn't

have a blank check with joe biden. as recent as just a few days ago, former president trump said that he had a great meeting with putin in 2018. that he believed putin over his own intelligence agencies. he's not going to get anything like that from joe biden. he's going to be challenged by joe biden, he's going to understand there is a new day and a new sheriff in town. >> sam stein. >> we've talked about russia but i want to change gears. you've been a skeptic of the iran nuclear deal and the administration has not leaned that heavily into renegotiating it, although they do say it is a priority to reenter the jcpoa. what kind of signals are you getting about the appetite for this and secondly you could articulate why we shouldn't re-enter that nuclear deal. >> well i oppose the jcpoa when it was first negotiated under the obama administration. i also oppose when president trump walked away without a plan, without a strategy, without allies and what we have seen since then is that iran has

ultimately accelerating its sophistication of the centrifuges which is to create the nuclear material so they are closer today than they were. so the question is getting them arrested from moving forward, yes, i understand why the administration wants to do that. but if we don't deal with the other challenges that are iran possesses, for example the ballistic missile development, if you have a ballistic missile with the capacity of delivering a warhead and then you add the material to the warhead, you now have a nuclear bomb. so we don't deal with the ballistic missile issues. it doesn't matter now, because they have all of the knowledge and once they have the missile and the ability to deliver a weapon, then if they break out the time for sanctions and all of that to kick in will not be meaningful. so this is the time to use the leverage that we have, to get iran, our allies who the president just corralled

together, and say, look, yes, we want to deal with your nuclear program, but at the same time you're going to have to deal with the ballistic missile because that is part of what the concern is. >> we're talking to the chairman of the foreign relations committee senator bob menendez. kasie hunt has the next question. >> good to see you. kamala harris was looking into the came telling people who live down there don't come to the united states and trying to work on the immigration crisis that we have at the border. how would you grade her trip there and how well she did in doing that and to what degree do you think changes in the biden immigration policy, the way they handle undocumented immigrants coming across the border is leading to this crisis? >> well i think she gets an "a" for her work. i was on a call with her after she came back. i also talked to some of my

interlockers in central america and she sent a strong message, we want to work with you to change the dine amibs in your corruption and we also need to deal with the corruption in your country and that is not an easy conversation to have with heads of state but she did it and forcefully and i think intelligently. in terms of we already had a challenge at the southern border. people forget even though a wall was being built it doesn't stop people from coming and at the end of day you have to deal with the root causes which is what her mission is, i think that is a long-term plan but in the first instance making sure that we give opportunities for people with legitimate asylum claims to do it in country is something that had been closed down. and this is an opportunity to set that back up as part of her priorities. >> mr. chairman, you have a question. >> mr. steele. >> be very careful. mr. chairman and mr. chairman. >> chairman, so i want to do a little politics with you.

how in your -- >> i'm a statesman. i don't do politics. >> how do you assess the democrats' ability in the senate to actually move president biden's agenda whether it is on infrastructure, which we wopts go there or other big issues right now because you've got -- i'm thinking of that song from the sound of music, what do you do with a problem like maria, what do you do with a problem like manchin. how do you see that part being navigated on the democratic side in the senate to help this agenda forward for the president? >> well, look, first of all, let's take stock. six months into an administration and a new majority in the senate, we passed the american rescue plan, significant in terms of getting this country back on its feet on the vaccination side and the economic side. we just passed a significant bipartisan bill on china, it

came out of my committee on foreign relations with an overwhelming bipartisan support with regard to china and we have put through most of the president's nominations. his whole cabinet is in and a host of other entities. so i think we are moving forward. now there are challenges and i think that we will meet those challenges. we're working -- i'm sitting in a bipartisan group on immigration. i don't know if we could get to where we want to be but we're working faithfully on it. i know there is discussions on infrastructure in the bipartisan group. we'll see. but at the end of the day i know democrats will do one thing, we have to produce for the american people and they want to see process that doesn't mean as much to them as action. >> you know, mr. chairman, over the past four years, we have had a back and forth relationship with china, donald trump obviously when he was in pursuit of a trade deal was -- would

bend over backwards, congratulate president xi for being transparent and when things weren't well he would go the other direction. your chairman obviously of one of the most important committees on capitol hill and what is our game plan, we're sharing the global stage with china for the next 50 years, whether people like it or not and whether we like what china is doing or not, so what is our way forward, what is our great strategy? >> well i think the legislation that passed is a good blueprint of what that grand strategy is. and you're right, we'll have to deal with china. it is a rising power and in a huge economy. but our strategy is to be two things. we must confront china for its international violations in the south china sea and what it is doing to uyghurs and tibet and to hong kong and its threat to taiwan. but we must also compete with

china. if i want to go around the world and say don't use hauwei and the 5g technology because it will undermine your intelligence then i have to offer you something, a 5g program. if i don't do that and i can't compete, then i tell you what to do or not to do. >> and by the way, that brings up another good point that i'm so glad that you said it, it brings up another great point that i don't know that everybody on the hill and in the last administration understood this, the world is a big place. if we're not going to sell weapons, technology, to, let's say the uae, china will. doesn't mean that we sell that weapons technology. if we're deciding to take a hard line against our allies on some technology -- technological transfer, they're just go to china. how do we deal with that. >> that is where the competition

part comes in, right. so what we did in the legislation that just passed the senate, is to create both elements, how to confront china when it violates the international order and how to compete with china. the infusion of incentivizing crow ating our chips and have our oeb supply chain for the new economy is a huge movement forward. how we deal on trade issues with china and i'm glad to see that the president is in the midst of bringing us together with the european union because if we have the e.u., we have the g7, and can compete with china collectively under the g7, that is a powerful -- >> are you concerned about a gas pipeline that biden is basically given the ago ahead to the germans? >> i think given the go ahead. he just waived temly sanction, could be reimposed immediately. yes, i oppose north stream and

that is a bipartisan view in the senate. i think it is a bad deal. europe considers it a bad deal except for german. europe considers it a bad deal and i think it is a bad deal for the united states in terms of its national interest. so i hope that either we will ensure, and we can affect that as well. so we can still deal a blow to putin, and more importantly, not have europe continue to depend upon, you know, russia as a gas station. you have new finds in greece, cypress, israel. collectively together they can change the dynamics for energy for the european union. >> chairman and senator bob menendez, thank you very much. a lot to talk about. up next, the most consequential gathering of evangelicals in decades is now

underway. will far right populism take over the southern baptist convention, or has it done so already? "morning joe" is coming right back.

would the rule that you a lied in 2016 to the scalia

vacancy apply in 2024 to any vacancy that occurred then? >> well, i think in the middle of a presidential election, if you have a senate of the opposite party of the president, you have to go back to the 1880s to find the last time a vacancy was filled. i think it's highly unlikely. in fact, no, i don't think either party if it controlled, if it were different from the president, would confirm a supreme court nominee in the middle of an election. >> senate minority leader mitch mcconnell making it clear what he would do if republicans control the senate again under a democratic president. mcconnell was able to fill three supreme court seats during the trump presidency with conservative judges that promised to move the court to the right, solidify trump support among white evangelicals. and now the nation's largest

protestant denomination is charting its path forward. the meeting of the southern baptist convention is underway, and there is mingling about race, gender and spousal abuse. >> am i the only one that grew up in the southern baptist church? anybody, anybody? i thought so. very good. look, i've been talking for years about the southern baptist church. russell, of course, was investigating sexual abuse in the church. but also became persona non

grata when he was critical of donald trump. here was a traditional southern baptist basically got driven from the church. >> the denomination is really changing. they're all gathering in nashville this week, and we're all really wondering if this is the end of the russell moore era of the southern baptist. they have about 16,000 pastors and leaders there, mostly white. on its most basic level, this is a gathering in the south of about 16,000 mostly white men to debate race, sex, the role of women and the future of evangelical power in the country, and a lot is at stake. they're potentially going to elect an anti-establishment populist candidate. this is a denomination, as you know, that is already very conservative. >> right. >> and it's facing another conservative takeover. >> but not conservative enough. you write in your article that those that used to be seen as a conservative faction are now being called basically moderates

and sellouts. >> it sounds a bit like the republican party, right? all conservative, and like you said, many of these people really supported former president donald trump, and the legacy of that is unfolding. this is a cultural revolution. >> tell me about this pirate thing that's going on in nashville. >> what's a southern baptist convention without pirates and pirate flags and skull and crossbones. seriously, there are supporters of this anti-establishment candidate, and basically conservative insurgency, and they have driven, flown to nashville. some of them have been on social media displaying their pilot flags and they're take the ship hash tags and they mean business. >> are they suggesting the convention has drifted? >> they're saying the convention has drifted. a lot of them are very upset about critical race theory. we also have to remember, this

is a year after the murder of george floyd, and the country has experienced great change and awakening in that area. there is a lot of resistance to that in white christian america. >> a national correspondent covering faith and politics for the "new york times," elizabeth dias, thank you very much. by the way, we're going to be back here tomorrow in washington with full coverage of the biden-putin summit, which a lot of which should be happening right in the middle of "morning joe" given the time change, right? >> i think so. what are you doing on the hill today? >> well, the hill is still kind of -- we're stuck in infrastructure talks that are now dragging weeks on end, so i'm looking to more reaction from bernie sanders saying, i don't want to do this anymore. >> i'm not going to the hill today. i'm working from home after a year and a half.

restrictive covid restrictions here. >> can i make a suggestion? go out and hug babies in front of cameras. that does it for us this morning. chris jansing picks up the coverage right now. hi there. i'm chris jansing in for stephanie ruhle from msnbc headquarters in new york. it's tuesday, june 15th, and we start with breaking news. right now president biden is leaving brussels boarding air force one just seconds ago, heading to geneva and into the biggest meeting of his presidency so far. the face-to-face summit with russian president vladimir putin. it's not the first time they've met. that would have been a decade ago when biden famously said he told putin he didn't think he had a soul. it won't exactly be a friendly meeting, but it will be an extremely important one for both men. a