i'm so glad you're ok, sgt. houston. this is sam with usaa. do you see the tow truck? yes, thank you, that was fast. sgt. houston never expected this to happen. or that her grandpa's dog tags would be left behind. but that one call got her a tow and rental... ...paid her claim... ...and we even pulled a few strings. making it easy to make things right: that's what we're made for. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. get a quote today. hi there, everyone. we start with new developments in the perversion of justice, and breaking news about the white house's efforts to turn the doj into an arm of the election fraud disinformation

campaign that incited the deadly insurrection and used the executive branch agencies to carry out a coup attempt. documents released by the oversight committee revealed trump sent an e-mail through an aide the day bill barr departed the doj, seeking assistance in his effort to throw the election results. from "new york times" -- an hour before, the president began pressuring the eventual replacement to have the justice department take up his false claims. he sent as e-mail via his assistant to the acting ag. the same claim said a federal judge thrown out a week earlier in a law fight by one of mr. trump's personal lawyers. most of the correspondence also occurred when mr. rosen and his

top deputies realized that one of their peers had plotted with mr. trump to first oust mr. rosen and then to try to use federal law enforcement to force georgia to overturn either election results. these people, they ran the justice department. we have now spent the last several weeks with the known overreaches that happened there. today we learned that trump joined in those efforts by mark meadows, his chief of staffer, in a direct and specific and sustained pressure campaign to overturn the results of the election. the new documents just add to this picture of the chief of staff, mark meadows, launches his pressure campaign. "new york times" reported about that last month, specifically that meadows had sent at least five e-mails in december and january, pressing rosen to probe conspiracy theories. the increasingly clear picture of a coordinated coup attempt

from the oval office is where we start this hour with pennsylvania attorney general's shapiro. i know the journalist that is cover the justice department are duty-bound to offer the most generous evaluation of what is emerging, the fact pattern, but we now have e-mails that prove donald trump was directing his acting attorney general on the day bill barr left to overturn the results in six days. do you have any doubt that he was seeking to remain in power? >> not at all. we knew this before, but we have e-mails to confirm it, people at the highest levels of government were willing to do everything with the power they had to try to destroy our democracy, to put themselves and their own political interests before the interests of the american people. we see that. we know that. clearly donald trump was orchestrating that.

>> i think it's important, too, you know, mitch mcconnell's use for letting the big lie stand for so many months, but ultimately a deadly insurrection came to pass at the capitol building, was let's humor him. let trump be trump. that was mccarthy's excuse as well, but it was clear humoring him didn't work. we know through an aide, the white house chief of staff through his own e-mails was directly pressing the most senior leaders of the justice department to stop the transfer of power. i wonder what you have to say about what the justice departments had become. >> donald trump tried to turn it into a tool of his own political whims. there were many people there willing to carry that out. there were many people in the white house willing to do the president's bidding, but our democracy was able to withstand donald trump. not without a lot of damage, but

they were able to withstand it. i think it's important -- you noted the connection with the violent insurrection. there was a pattern that began with the lies that led to the litigation that led to the efforts to ditch the will of the people in my state of pennsylvania, that led to the heated rhetoric, and now we know the attempts to use the department of justice to overturn an election here in pennsylvania and in other states, ultimately leading to the violent insurrection on january 6th. there is a direct line that you can connect the dots in between each. it is now that work that we need to do to speak truth, to try to come together to clean up the mess from the big lie, which still exists today, and to do that work to repair our democracy that donald trump so damaged seriously. >> i always like to sort of

preface questions, and among the two paerms, the democrats are the only ones committed to the democratic norms that define our country. had hillary clinton prevailed in 2016. had we learned today in the "new york times" and an e-maily the judiciary committee that she said huma abedin acting the attorney general to overturn the election results, there would be hearings right now. republicans wouldn't hesitate. my question is do you think democrats are moving with the urgency this conduct requires? >> i think democrats certainly need to do more in washington. i do not think we can normalize that behavior. i certainly don't think we can grow numb to it. look, you know, this was an attempt to overthrow the will of

the people, to undermine our democracy, to engage really in a coup that ultimately became violent at the capitol on january 6th. i think it's important we know what occurred. obviously mitch mcconnell is standing in the way of a commission to do that, and make sure people are held accountable. i realize there may be some who say let's not spend time on this, but i think as democrats we need to walk and chew gum at the same times. we should pass a budget that invests in families, and at the same time we should by trying to get to the bottom of what occur. the cancer still exists. with we do not do our part to root out that cancer, without some honesty and truth telling today. that cancer will come back. the people who are leading the way in the republican party today, the modern-day gop, indeed the leaders here in pennsylvania who are poised to

be the nominees to statewide office, they continue to not just spew the big lie, but run on the big lie. unless those issues are addressed today, it will continue to eat away at our democracy. we need truth telling. that work must be done. >> those republican official travel to, you said if they plan to stage a faux audit, they'll have to go through you. where do those efforts stand? how confident are you in stopping that? >> they sued us 42 times to make it harder for people to vote. we want every -- every single time i will stand up and defend the rule of law, and i'll win. i'm confident in our ability to speak truth and win in court, if

it comes to that. as to where things stand? who knows. they have these conference calls seemingly with donald trump, they huddle up, make pronouncements, and they haven't actually taken any legal steps yet, but make no mistake, if they try to bring that sham audit to pennsylvania, we'll be prepared and will fight back. the reason is we've had two jill legal audits in pennsylvania. we have a safe and security election. the will of the people was respected and certified. like i said, they'll have to go through me. we'll continue to respect the rule of the people and the rule of law, unlike others. >> we will stay on the story. pennsylvania's attorney general josh shapiro, always great to talk with you about all of this. thank you for spending time with us. joining our conversation,

reporter katy benner is here. "the washington post" contributing columnist, donna edwards is here, lucky for us both msnbc contributors. last night you scooped the documents released to the committee today, but it builds on earlier reporting, two pieces, one of this bizarre inside threat at doj, this individual that donald trump wanted to roe place mr. rosen, and the effort about meadows' efforts to overturn the election results in six states. just tie three of those pieces together with today's revelation. >> sure. we saw today the president himself reached ute. he was pressuring hem to use the justice department to legitimize and reinvigorate two different legal cases that had fallen in the courts. one was brought by sydney powell, you know, claiming there was election fraud in a state that had already done a hand

recount, showing there was not. the other was a bizarre supreme court brief that already failed and had been filed by the attorney general in texas, which would already failed. he wanted justice department officials to file that before the court. officials inside the department, you can see from some of these e-mails, and some great reporting in "wall street journal," they believed this to be specious, with no legal standing, and you see them trying to push back. you see them people trying to hold meetings with jeffrey rosen. it's chaotic, but the attack on the officials was coming from all sides at the white house, from the president himself, from his chief of staff, from allies of the president who had nothing to do with the white house, even from somebody working within the justice department who had become connected with trump, who trump had courted, and who also believed there was election fraud, that the department

itself had said it did not find. it was really shocking to see these things all come together in this set of documents. you get a real true sense for how much pressure jeffrey rosen was under. you get a true sense for how much the president believed this is how he could use the justice department, this was the true purpose of the justice department. that's something we should be thinking about as we understand that former president trump still has such control and sway over his party. >> well, to be blunt, you also see how bat bleep crazy he was. this is what his assistant typed in an e-mail. you see after four years, he seemed to understand that the justice department was supposed to be -- i want to read this -- on december 29th, his white house assistant e-mailed mr. rosen and principal associate deputy attorney general donohue, and acting solicitor, and attached a brief to file in the

supreme court. she wrote the president asked me to send this draft document for your review and provided a phone number to contact the president directly. it demanded that the supreme court declare that the electoral college votes cast in six states that president trump lost cannot be counted, and requested that the court order a special election for president in those states. i know we have an appetite to zip through everything, but let's just stand here for a second. the president had his administrative assistant send the acting attorney general something to pass along to the supreme court of the united states. in it he attached the supreme court was to declare that the electoral college votes cast could not be counted? i mean, was this perceived as an order, as desperate rantings of a lunatic? do you know if they passed it on to the supreme court? >> this is one of the interesting things about the

justice department after four years of trump. there was almost a tacit recognition that many of the things they were asked to do were thing they would not dream of doing, and refuse to do. there was a dance, we know this is inappropriate, but we're not going to flat-out say it's inappropriate. when i have spoken to former officials, people close to these matters, knowledge of these meetings, they say one of the reasons is there was a belief it was better for them to stay and not be fired, because they kind of knew how to handle this dance of taking in some sort of order or directive, nodding, but then never doing it, so they felt they could defend the country. this was not presented before the supreme court. this is not something that anybody ever imagined they would file. they felt the case literally had no merit. and, as the "wall street journal" reported, they felt there was no legal interest for

the justice department, vis-a-vis, who won or who lost an election. that's not how this country works. the justice department does not campaign for a president. they also felt it was not something they would file anyway, because there's no legal interest for the department for who wins the presidential election. >> donna, i think the other think ink that katie's reporting over the last four months brings into focus is this could have gone either way. there was an internal operator working on behalf of donald trump, and had mr. rosen, who responded the way katie benner has reported he responded, they did nothing. of course they pa pass it on to the supreme court. first of all, that's not misthe operation of powers permits in the first place. it's not that people knew he was insane and -- were plentiyful and strong. it could have gone either way.

i want to read a couple other examples. this is the summary, this all happened by -- at 3:08 p.m., mr. meadows sent mr. rosen a youtube link representing the italy conspiracy. i messed it. i guess it was a thing. it was labeled, quote, brad johnson, rome, satellites, servers, an update. mr. rosen forwarded the e-mail to mr. donoghue, who responded, pure insanity. mr. rosen learned, quote, is working with rudy giuliani. mr. rosen said he refused the request. my question, is, one, katie reported there was a desire to remove mr. rosen and replace him

with mr. clark. when you read what he wanted them to do, it casts all the great reporting about people who were spied on, including the chief witness to robert mueller, including adam schiff, the three news organizations, in a different light. >> it does, thank you, katie for your reporting. i think it's important for the american people to know the level of frenzy and desperation and control that the trump -- that president trump and his minions were trying to exercise over the department of justice. you have to look at all of this in 9 totality in terms of the president's behavior. none of that has changed. so this is why, i think, we could just sort of sweep this away, because if we don't know what really happened and the timeline for that, when i think

all leads up to january 6th, then we are going to be in grate danger as attorney general shapiro pointed out, of something like this potentially happening again. i just give credit to the recording, because it makes you believe, then, the other things we thought were in doubt in terms of the president's behavior and those who work for him. >> you know, donna, let me read one more section. i think to understand what trump was asking for will help us understand the kind of revelations that will continue to seep out. so 4:13 p.m., the same day, mr. meadows sent another e-mail, writing there have been allegations of fulton county, georgia. can you give jeff clark -- that was their inside ally -- to engage on this issue immediately to determine if there's any truth to this allegation? mr. rosen forwarded this e-mail

with a comment -- can you believe this? i am not going to respond to the message be low. you put that, donna, with what we know trump and meadows were doing in georgia to raffensperger, and we know this is a full-court press to overturn georgia. that call happened i think on sunday or monday, right? they were throwing -- no wonder 4,000 people were dying of covid. they were spending all their time to try to overturn the election results, in this case in georgia. >> and they were throwing anything at it they had it, trying to get them to weigh in with jeffrey rosen. i mean, again, nicolle, the level of desperation this president was engaged in -- and i have to tell you. everything that we have talked about the former president, has relied on norms and practices, rules, and what we know is that

we actually need clear laws that say that this kind of behavior is prohibited, because donald trump demonstrated that, with every bleeping moment in that time period from the november election right up until inauguration day, he was continues to press and press and press the department of justice, and anyone he could find who could sort of talk about all these crazy, every conspiracy theory that you could name or find on the dark web appeared in e-mails to the department of justice. >> katy benner, a lot of it has emerged, have been these communication from meadows to rosen, from trump's personal assistant to rosen. is any correspondence to barr or hi administrative folks been made public yet? >> we don't have correspondence

yet. we are waiting for investigators in congress, they have requested reports 23r9 national archives. that's how they would get white house records to see if there was any communication from that side. so you could see indicates of community indication what blar then, but we know the president was often calling him, but a lot of the pressure campaign that we see with rosen was happening to barr as well. there is an understanding from our reporting that one of the reasons that barr felt he needed to leave the justice department is that it got to a point where if he was not listened to, no matter how he pushed back, it didn't matter what was the point in staying, and people would argue that it was and as a bulwark to say something push or alert the public to what's happening, but at the end of the day, i'm just going to say hits choice in this matter was going to leave, knowing this would continue under rosen.

>> katy, thank you so much for your amazing reporting. >> donna edwards is sticking around a little longer. when we come back, more on this story, and why the country needs a full accounting on how the ex-president and his allies tried to use the doj to avert -- our next guess says a bleep-storm is coming. and we're watching president biden's reshaping of the federal court. the latest confirmation of a judge in an important spot, considered a possible next supreme court justice. is it any surprise that mitch mcconnell is already threatening another fight. texas lawyers were joined the post-pandemic luncheon for senators to push for societying voting legislation. guess when democrat didn't show up? more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. quick break. don't go anywhere.

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with more evidence uncovered and another round of hearings on threats to capitol police and congress, house speaker pelosi med with chairs on how to proceed with accountability, after senators blocked a bill to create a bipartisan investigation. tim miller, quote -- the arizona audit is being ignored about

leaders, who are not engaging in the -- and quietly considered the shambolic sideshow. the ex-president called republican politicians weak, and by his radicalized supporters who still want to stop the steal? joining our conversation is tim miller, writer atlarge for "the bulwark." it's a great and smart piece. it solidifies your understanding as our ambassador to crazy world. we cover the maricopa audit for every day where there is a reason, where it's not in arizona movement, it's a national movement. talk about how ignoring that they are putting into motion the dynamics.

>> i'm glad you're talking about it on this show. it's important that we are talking about and looking at what is happening in arizona. can you look at this and say this is crazy, and a lot of times when we're reporting, it's in, bamboo shards in the ballots, and how ridiculous this is, and look at serious candidates going down there to participate, and isn't that dangerous? that is all true, but i wanted to look forward a couple weeks. by the end of this month they say they'll come up with results, and we presume either donald trump won or saying they have uncovered some things that make you think donald trump might have won. when you look forward to that, i think philip bump at the "the washington post" crystallized this in a follow-up piece, and they wrote two factors came into play that led to violence, delusions about the election and a place in time for that to

manifest. that's what is going to happening when they results come out in arizona. what we are seeing from mcconnell, from mccarthy, from all the republicans in washington, is an exact replay of what they did before january 6th. put their heads in the sand, hope this crystallizing event does not become violent, and they can move on to their next vote other suppression bill in one of these states. they can move on to blocking joe biden and the things they actually care about. it seems to me like they haven't learned anything, and that we're on the cusp here of potential dangerous situation, and it's incumbent on us, democrats, political opponents to force them to address this, to force them to deal with this before the arizona audit results are revealed, rather than putting us in a situation where we might have a redux of what we saw a few months ago. >> donna, that's why we started

with attorney general shapiro. he has said he has seen what is happening in arizona. he says he sees it the way you see it, tim miller, and he says no way, not if i have anything to do with it. how urgent is it to stop these actual physical manifestations of the big lie, so they don't bick pilgrimage sites. there are things that happen in rooms with people and ballots. how urgent do you see it in the extremism context, in preventing another maricopa from happening? >> it's extremely urgent. part of the reason is, no matter what the so-called audit concludes in arizona, that that conclusion is going to be the confusion that tim has described. it is going to become an mating

factor, and donald trump is going to layer on that, so unless there are some reps out there -- i don't even know who they would be anymore -- who would say, you know, this is ridiculous. it didn't -- it's not valid -- the lie will continue, because that is what animates that far-right fringe and they're occupying an awful lot of space in the republican party. so democrats -- we can't just sort of turn our heads and then democrats go, it's time to move on. those people aren't moving on. >> right. right. i mean, to that end, i mean, i -- i'm difficult to surprise in terms of the split of -- but after sending john kako out and

getting everything they saided in it, i was surprised how aggressively they fought to kill the commission. now, tim, in light of your analysis about how animating these ongoing stop the steal/disinformation events are, do you think that -- the republican party is as devoted to killing the bipartisan very into 1/6, as they are to anything. >> you have to look back, it wasn't even the quote/unquote more reasonable republicans that wanted to support impeachment, it was even the john cornyns, and mcconnells. they changed a tune on a dime. it was what they were hearing from the bottom up from their supporters. they did not want the blowbacks. they know a commission like this will have a drip drip drip of revelations, just like the ones you were reporting on, about all

of the complicity of the trump administration in the insurrection and in the coup. meanwhile, their own voters are still practicing the insurrection. they're still trying to get it to happen, so if they supported this investigation, they would be, you know tacitly putting out information that opposed what their base is looking for. that's why they flipped on a dime. it was in response to that. i totally agreed. their top priority is in blocking this. if anything, they would be more likely to support the infrastructure or one of the others packages at this point. >> speaker pelosi, who obviously is in control and leader schumer, with a decision to make on how to proceed. punchbowl news' analysis of the choices before speaker pelosi.

they report that house democrats have several options. they could amend the original commission bill put together, with changes sought by susan collins and other senate moderates and send it back to the senate for another vote. they could create a select committee or appoint one committee chair to take the lead. are you partial to any one of those options? >> i'm not, but i don't think it's one choice. she could make a couple choices. she could both send a bill to the senate -- i'm actually not convinced that even the amendments that susan collins wanted would necessarily bring along ten more republicans, but she could do that. and she can't establish a select committee. or she can farm it out to a number of the different committees. i think that is a less appealing results, because then it

basically shuts down business for a whole bunch of committees that need to be working on other things. i support maybe a dual track. i think it has to put republicans on notice. you can either vote on the independent commission bill, or i'm going to run my own thing in the house of representatives. >> nicolle, can i just add on that? >> yeah, go ahead, please. >> susan collins amendment to this is just trash. it would allow kevin mccarthy to control the report itself and who the staff is on the report, and so not only is donna right it won't bring on ten more people, it would substantive make the investigation worse. it's just a nonstarter. the other options are much better. >> i mean, i would just add, too, giving kevin mcwater a

greater role after he purged liz cheney would seem to be the definition of insanity. thank you both so much. we will stay on it together. up next for us, the latest news from the biden administration to undo trump's four-year push to put have the supreme court in his image. what's next. the supreme court in his image what's next. when kids won't eat dinner, potato pay them to. ore-ida. win at mealtime.

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the biden administration is

moving forward with urgency and purpose in its effort to reshape the federal judiciary. yesterday the senate voted 53-44 too confirm an impressive rising start to serve in what is regard as the second highest court in the land. the seat was kressley vacated by merrick garland, but also a living reminder of a hard truth, that confirming justices have become messy political work. mcconnell blocked merrick garland, and then confirmed amy coney barrett eight days before the 2020 election. it's something to think about. kejanji brown jackson was a clerk of justice breyer, but yet again, it seems mcconnell is on

a mission to obstruct. joining us is neal katyal. i know congresswoman alexandria ocasio cortez said that justice breyer should step down. i know that's all super sensitive. where do you come down on that? >> i'm not a former law clerk like kejanji jackson, but i do think that president biden deserves a lot of credit to appointing her to our second highest court. something about diversity. at this point president biden has confirmed more african-american judges to the court of appeals in his four months than donald trump did in four years. that is a number, nicolle, of one. that's right. donald trump didn't have a single african-american court of

appeals judge. you would have to go back to president nixon to find a president who did that. of course, the number of black law school graduates back then was far fewer. let's just play the hypothetical scenario, where justice breyer stands down, and she becomes talked about as a front-runner. 4th confirmation was expected, but she received support from lisa murkowski, susan collins and lindsey graham, all who voted to advance her nomination in a procedural vote last week. does that play into how a white house trying to game out a supreme court fight? >> i suspect it does. obviously any of these folks could switch their votes, it's different for the court of appeals than for the supreme court, but if the president does nominate judge jackson, he's nominating someone who was beckably qualified, so together as a jurist, a person, and even

lindsey graham voted for her for the court of appeals. i don't think that means that president biden has to nominate her. there are other phenomenal candidates, but the one thing i will say about her and some other people on the short list, i think these lists recognize that law is a business of persuasion. you've nour just bosed to send out there a person who will scream the loudest and be the most striden, but the person who can get along with their colleagues and have the intellectual firepower to change people's minds. that's what i think we've been lacking a bit on the courts. over the last 40 years we've been sending up people who are friends of senators, things like that. justice kagan is a powerful

exception, as well as justice ginsburg. >> i just want to explain to our viewers, he went on a right-wing radio show and said he would again obstruct a nominee near the end of president biden's first term. how do you -- with a course being so disproportionately weighted to conservative picks, how do you deal with that strategically? >> i think senator mcconnell's statement here is grave, it's horrible. he doesn't respect democracy. he doesn't respect the supreme court. he's not a man who disrespects the rule of law. any nominee, no matter who they are, they're saying they won't get through if he's in control of the senate. that is putting the supreme court, nicolle, in the cross hairs of a political fight. that's what gives rise to the impulses like court packing and

the like. if mcconnell is going to monkey as he did in 2016 and again in 2020 with the supreme court, then democrats need to stand up, and people like manchin will need to stand up for the court and say if you believe in institutions, if that's what you're about, senator manchin, you need some sort of remedy to deal with this real monkeying that mcconnell has done with the supreme court, now not only over the pianosr past four years, but what he's saying he's going to do again. that's so horrible to the court. the court generally works pretty well, but it will reach a breaking point if mcconnell has his way. >> i think there's some pressure within the democratic party, that he's revealed who he is. he views the supreme court as not outside of politics, but as the center of his political, his brute use of political power is most, in hi view, i think his

highest purpose is to black the supreme court by blocking the garland nomination, but pushing through the amy coney barrett nomination. what is the counter to that? to have a serious discussion about supreme court reform? is it to filibuster? we know what mitch mcconnell will do. he said it on a radio show this week. the first thing is the democrats actually need to care, and fight for the supreme court, fight with everything they have. like if mitch mcconnell wants to play the games about building a bridge and who gets a government contract in kentucky, that's one thing, but what is more essential to who we are as an american people than the supreme court and its evenhandedness. by not even giving merrick garland a vote was to change

the -- this is a man who is enormously well respected on both sides of the aisle. that would have been the first time really in our lifetime, i think since 1972 or so, in which the supreme court would have had a majority of people on it composed of democratic appointees to the supreme court. we just haven't had that in literally 49 years or so. president obama was the president then, and now the democrats have to do everything in their power to fight for the supreme court. not for radical views or anything like that, but people who believe in democracy and will stand up for the rule of law, to be confirmed to the supreme court. >> i would just add my voice to that. you now have the republican party comfortable with anti-democratic policies and saying them out loud as mitch

mcconnell did. i agree with you. we'll continue to call you on, neal katyal. up next, can anyone per said joe manchin to protect voting rights from the aggressive republican state-by-state assault? one group is trying to, if they can find him. trying to, if the can find him [tv announcer] come on down to our appliance superstore where we've got the best deals on refrigerators, microwaves, gas ranges and grills. and if you're looking for... we made usaa insurance

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your mother loved this park. ♪♪ she did. - i'm norm. - i'm szasz. [norm] and we live in columbia, missouri. we do consulting, but we also write. [szasz] we take care of ourselves constantly; it's important. we walk three to five times a week, a couple miles at a time. - we've both been taking prevagen for a little more than 11 years now. after about 30 days of taking it, we noticed clarity that we didn't notice before. - it's still helping me. i still notice a difference. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. democrats pulling out all the stops today to try and sway senator joe manchin into backing the for the people act to help stop the wave of voting

restrictions across the country. in their first in-person senate lunch in more than a year, democrats invited members of the texas state legislature. remember them? just last month, they rallied to deny a voting restriction bill from passing in their chamber. they just walked out to try to make their case to manchin as to why the bill is urgently needed. we've learned manchin wasn't even there, didn't hear what they had to say. several of the texas democrats were able to meet with manchin's staff while they were on the hill. joining us now is one of those lawmakers, texas state representative jasmine crockett, just outside the u.s. capitol. tell me about your day and then we'll get to joe manchin's staff. >> yeah, so, first of all, thank you so much for having me. today has really been action packed. it was kind of a divide and conquer strategy. we wanted to make sure that as many of our voices was heard up here in d.c.

we know that the entire nation watched as we walked off the house floor, breaking quorum, and therefore killing sb7, probably the worst voter suppression bill in this country. but we thought we needed to go a step further. we all understand that actions speak louder than words, and so we came up here, and we've been speaking with lawmakers all day long. >> so, the conventional wisdom, and take it for what it's worth, it's not worth much, but is that this voting rights legislation, without manchin's support and without support for somehow changing the filibuster and the rules in the senate, isn't likely to pass. did you get a different impression today through your meetings? >> i got a hopeful impression is what i'll say. you know, it's one thing to deny us and say, i'm just going to vote no. it's another thing to actually hear us. and so i do feel as if we were able to get through and really

stress the urgency of the matter. from, you know, being on the front lines. it's one thing to kind of watch and monday night quarterback it. it's another thing to hear from those that are on the front lines about exactly what it is that we've been through this entire session down in texas, and sadly enough, our story is not unique. this has been going on across the country in various houses that are republican controlled, and i do feel as if hopefully our message was getting across on a different level, and they understand the urgency of getting some sort of back-up so that we've got something to work with when we go back, because we know that the republicans are going to continue to try to push voter suppression. >> did they seem to understand just how bad the texas law is? did they understand how targeted it is to texas's black and brown voters, taking out drive-thru

voting in cities, taking out drop boxes. did they understand that it was constructed for the express purpose of voter suppression? >> so, there were definitely provisions that they really did understand very well as far as, you know, the point is nothing but voter suppression. obviously, with a history of the senator, he's dealt with elections time and time again in his previous capacity. and so, they did understand, but i don't think they truly understood some of the terrible, terrible provisions in here about being able to overturn elections simply because someone alleges fraud but doesn't necessarily have to prove that fraud was a part of it, and lowering the standard of proof. i don't think they really understood what they were trying to do by allowing them to choose the jurisdiction in which they brought those suits so that if you want to throw out all the democrats that are elected, you could just go maybe file suit in a republican area and overturn that election. so, i really do think we were

able to really evidence to them how bad this is, the fact that the senate sponsor of this bill was formerly on trump's team to overturn the election in pennsylvania. the house senate sponsor, he was just a volunteer attorney on trump's team, so we all know this was nothing more than voter suppression, nothing more than continuing to push the former president's agenda. >> were you disappointed not to speak to senator manchin, and did you learn why he wasn't there? >> i was disappointed that i didn't have an opportunity, because that would have been the ultimate is for him to really hear from lawmakers in texas. after all, we did come from texas to d.c., and we didn't come to play. we came to talk. we came to try to get some back-up and hopefully not only save texans when it comes to the ballot box but hopefully save so many other persons in this country. in places like georgia.

we did learn that he actually was meeting about voting rights, so he was meeting with colleagues and having these conversations, so you know what? at least he wasn't out golfing, right? or as one of our senators likes to do, catching a flight to cancun. at least he was actually doing the people's work. >> you have a very texas glass half full attitude, which is very, very, very refreshing. it's a pleasure to talk to you. thank you so much. texas state representative jasmine crockett. thank you. we'll stay on this story. we're going to continue to call on you. thanks for spending some time with us today. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. we're just getting started. k br. don't go anywhere. we're just getting started you downloaded the td ameritrade mobile app so you can quickly check the markets? yeah, actually i'm taking one last look at my dashboard before we board. excellent. and you have thinkorswim mobile- -so i can finish analyzing the risk on this position. you two are all set. have a great flight.

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♪♪ attacks by domestic terrorists are not just attacks on their immediate victims. they are attacks on all of us collectively, aimed at rending the fabric of our democratic society and driving us apart. the only way to find sustainable solutions is not only to disrupt and deter but also to address the root causes of violence. the national strategy for countering domestic terrorism is a key step in our efforts. we have much work ahead. >> hi again, everyone. it's 5:00 in the east. attorney general merrick garland earlier today on one of the top priorities for the biden administration, combatting the threat of domestic terrorism. garland announcing today the

release of a strategy document put out by the white house called the national strategy for countering domestic terrorism, which is described by "the new york times" like this. the 32-page plan synthesizes steps that have been recommended by national security officials, including bolstering relationships with social media companies and improving information sharing among law enforcement agencies into one blueprint on how to more effectively identify extremists in the country after years of heightened focus on foreign terrorists. the increasing threat of domestic terrorism, especially in the wake of january 6th, has been an issue president biden has repeatedly addressed since the start of his time in office. the white house's document begins with this forceful statement from him. preventing domestic terrorism and reducing the factors that fuel it demand a multifaceted response across the federal government. together, we must affirm that domestic terrorism has no place in our society. we must work to root out the hatreds that can too often drive

violence, and we must recommit to defend and protect those basic freedoms which belong to all americans in equal measure and which are not only the foundation of our democracy. they are our enduring advantage in the world. it's a sharp departure from the disgraced ex-president who repeatedly downplayed and even bolstered the threat of domestic extremism. in describing the biggest terror threats we face, the new strategy document says, across violent ideologies, individuals and small groups, both formal and informal, have been galvanized by recent political and societal events in the u.s. to carry out violent attacks. among that wide range of animating ideologies, racially or ethnically motivated violent extremists, principally those who promote the superiority of the white race and militia violent extremists are assessed as presenting the most persistent and lethal threats. the tackling of this issue requires walking a fine line as

dhs secretary mayorkas noted in an interview with nbc news earlier. watch. >> we are very respectful of the constitutional principle, the first amendment right of free speech. we are not targeting speech. we are not attacking speech. what we are focused on is violence. the incitement of violence, the drive to violence, the commission of violent acts. >> the announcement of a national plan coming as the fbi has just released its own report warning of more potential violence from followers of qanon. from their report, quote, the participation of some domestic violent extremists who are also self-identified qanon adherents in the violent siege of the u.s. capitol on january 6th underscores how the current environment likely will continue to act as a catalyst for some to begin accepting the legitimacy of violent action. qanon refers to a complex and

constantly evolving conspiracy theory that is promoted by a decentralized online community that has morphed into a real world movement. the biden administration's effort to combat domestic terrorism is where we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. eugene daniels is here, white house reporter for politico, coauthor of "playbook" and an msnbc contributor. also joining us, msnbc national security analyst clint watts is back. he worked as a consultant to the fbi's counterterrorism division and is now a distinguished research fellow at the foreign policy research institute. and miles taylor is back, former chief of staff for the department of homeland security and an advisor to the republican political alliance for integrity and reform. boy, do we need that. let me start with you, miles taylor. this is carefully crafted. it's technical in nature. but i think the elephant in the room today is that the ex-president fomented,

galvanized, and incited this move to violence on 1/6 specifically and before that, if you look the a his call to the proud boys to stand back and stand by. >> yeah, nicole, no question about that. and look, you know me. i'm a republican. this is a democratic administration, but i've got to say, this is actually a very bold strategy, and when i read it, three things stood out to me. the first is that this administration actually wants to fight domestic terrorism rather than fuel domestic terrorism, and i don't say that facetiously, because as you just noted, the former president's rhetoric and actions actually fanned the flames of the conspiracy theories and the hateful yours truliologies that we see at the root of domestic terrorism in the united states. how has that translated into the real world? look no further than when the former president talked about liberating michigan and then we saw a violent plot to kidnap and potentially kill the governor. or when he said there was an invasion at the southern border which then led an individual to

conduct a mass shooting in el paso. we're talking about real stuff here. now, the second thing that stands out about this strategy is that it's four years too late. now, that's not joe biden's fault. that's donald trump's fault. but imagine if when we were fighting isis, we gave them a four-year head start. what would that have meant for the security of our country? and i can tell you what it's meant when it comes to domestic terrorism. it means we now have domestic terrorism investigations by the fbi in all 50 states. and the third thing that stands out about this strategy to me, after talking to senior white house officials this week, is that this is an effort to depoliticize the issue and to make domestic terrorism a national security challenge and to take it away from this rhetoric about partisan discourse and viewpoint discrimination. it's not about that. it's about americans being threatened by people who want to injure and harm them for their beliefs and, in some cases, racial and ethnic make-up. that is something we should all be able to rally around, so this is a bold step by the biden

administration and a welcome one. >> eugene, was that the reaction? did democrats and republicans praise this document today? >> i don't know if democrats and republicans. there were a lot of democrats that did. and i think that you're going to continue to see that. what we kept hearing, what i kept hearing is that people were excited that you heard from the attorney general. you heard from the secretary of the homeland security department. you heard from president biden, because this administration -- and they say it and we kind of laugh as reporters that they're saying, everything they do is an all of government approach and that's what you're seeing here. it's clear that they want to use all the levers of government because they believe that they can use it and make it work. there's some folks that were a little disappointed that it didn't have -- or establish a domestic terrorism law. people were expecting or hoping that was coming. but this is, like miles said, something that people are looking at as a step forward.

it is a very different tact than the previous administration, because even though the same information was there, right, you had the intelligence community telling the administration that, hey, domestic terrorism is dangerous and white supremacist terrorism is one of the greatest threats to freedom here in this country, and there was not anything done. and so we're seeing these changes being made. people are excited but also nervous because, you know, this time that these people have built, we've already seen what happened on january 6th, so we see how kind of a disparate group of people can come together and do something where that's deadly and also puts leaders of this country in real serious harm, and i think one of the things that i kept hearing today is that, at best, then president trump had an issue criticizing people who thought -- he thought might like him, and so that is one of the reasons why during the trump administration, that wasn't

happening. there was no movement on this. even though all of the same evidence was there. >> yeah, i mean, let's be really blunt here in our conversations. clint, a trump ally and outside advisor said to me after the stand back and stand by comment -- i said, i'm not going to have a conversation with you about whether or not he's a racist. you go back to jake tapper's interview in the 2015/2016 cycle where he says, you want me to disavow? you want me to disavow, jake? i disavow. he never wanted to disavow white supremacists for the reasons eugene is articulating, because he wanted their votes too. i wonder if you can speak to what years and years of being welcomed into the republican coalition by a president, the most powerful person in our government, has done to that movement. what does the threat look like after four years of that, clint? >> that's the big challenge, nicole. part of the reason we're dancing

around what the fbi or dhs can look at is because the political speech that is protected, supposedly, is also inciting violence, and so the -- we're asking federal law enforcement to figure out what their boss, essentially, up the chain of command is allowed to say that is permissible that doesn't incite violence versus what does incite violence, particularly when it comes to january 6th. across the board, there was a major uptick in both white supremacist and militia based violence over the last four years, it's undeniable. none of the stats suggest anything else otherwise. and at the same time, we're going back. we have not resolved this. if you rewound a week i was on here with you talking about the january 6th report from the senate. this week, we're talking about the domestic terrorism plan that's going forward. we still haven't figured out what we're going to allow the fbi or the department of homeland security to look at in terms of social media, what we're going to allow them to look at in terms of different

groups. what is a little bit weird and frustrating is we talk about militia violent extremists. well, that is a category that's in this document today. that is a group -- militias are a group. we're saying we're going to look at the violence from the people inside the group but we're not going to designate the group as a whole. this is an inverse of exactly almost ten years ago, the obama administration issued two documents. one was a strategy for combatting home grown violent extremism and an implementation plan for state and local law enforcement. we're almost back to ten years later, the same sort of conundrum except it's even worse now in a domestic space because in the domestic space, they vote. in the domestic space, they have rights. they have free speech, freedom of assembly. and it is not agreed upon, you know, what's interesting about what was said today was a whole of society approach, but a whole of society approach only works if all of society wants to solve a problem. we don't really have that today. we don't have agreement about stopping domestic terrorism. we don't even have agreement

about what happened on january 6th. we don't have agreement in terms of a commission. so, there's only four pillars in that document. they all are well articulated, but there's only one, really, to focus on, and that's that third pillar, which is law enforcement investigations of violence. that's undeniable, and the rule of law should reign and i think that's ultimately where i think the administration will focus most of its efforts. >> i mean, what i'm hearing from all of you is that this is the best articulation we've had in ten years, but it is lacking. and i want to read something in here, miles, about -- from the fbi on qanon. the fbi writes this. we assess that some domestic violent adherents of qanon will likely begin to believe they can no longer trust the plan, referencing qanon posts and that they have an obligation to change from serving as digital soldiers toward engaging in real world violence, including harming perceived members of the cabal such as democrats and other political opposition.

let me show you what the disgraced ex-president had to say when given an opportunity, as the country's commander in chief, to call them what they are. a threat to the country. >> let me ask you about qanon. it is this theory that democrats are a satanic pedophile ring and that you are the savior of that. now, can you just once and for all state that that is completely not true? disavow qanon in its entirety. >> i know nothing about qanon. >> i just told you. >> i know very little. you told me, but what you tell me doesn't necessarily make it fact, i hate to say that. i know nothing about it. i do know they are very much against pedophilia. they fight it very hard. but i know nothing about it. >> they believe it is a satanic cult run by the deep state. >> study the subject. i'll tell you what i do know about. i know about antifa and i know about the radical left and i

know how violent they are and how vicious they are. >> i mean, miles, he broke this country's ability to fight domestic violent extremism for the duration of his president. that was in october just before, mercifully, he lost. but on that stage with millions of people watching under very direct, very fair questioning from my colleague, savannah guthrie, is taking up for qanon, taking up for this group that, according to the fbi, is likely to resort to real world violence because of a belief system that the ex-president there elevates, saying they're really interested in fighting pedophilia. no, they're not. they're freaking crazy. what do we do on our side of the aisle to clean up all the damage that has been done? >> well, nicole, you know that -- you know how i feel about the former guy. i mean, i think he's got the intellectual acumen of a very tiny caterpillar, so he doesn't

really understand this threat, and i can tell you as a national security professional, what we're seeing from qanon is similar to the rhetoric that we would see in other extremist circles overseas that sort of create a base for a recruitment pool, if you will, to pluck out really true violent extremists. so this is a real threat, and the fact that donald trump at the time dismissed it is part and parcel of why he needed to leave office. i mean, if you look at the biden domestic terrorism strategy, it's got several main pillars, identifying the threat and preventing the threat and disrupting the threat. and if you were going to sum up what the trump administration did, it was, ignore the threat, politicize the threat, and down play the threat. so, i hate to set the bar that low, and clint notes that there's some deficiencies in this document, but given how low the bar is set, i actually think this is a lot of progress. but we have to look at that bigger picture, nicole, you're right. there's a lot of rebuilding that needs to be done, and it starts with something that sounds very, very boring to most viewers, and

that is community awareness. but i'm going to tell you, and i hope clint will back me up on this. i'm going to tell you why community awareness is so important. in the past, when we've studied terrorist plats that we disrupted in the united states, one crucial factor stands out in most of those disruptions in that it's someone in the community, a neighbor, a family member, a friend, a confidential source who helped tip off authorities to the threat and helped disrupt it and protect american lives, and that's what needs to be done here. and fortunately, with this strategy, the administration is actually talking about devoting more money to doing exactly that, raising community awareness so we can disrupt these plots. >> but i guess, eugene, the reason that we have to turn to neighbors, you know, raising awareness about neighbors who are qanon adherents and maybe stockpiling weapons, i mean, that's what this looks like with the failure of the two parties in washington that represent us. that's what the vacuum creates.

i still can't get past the fact that there is no commission as we sit here today to look at why six republican house members, based on reporting from luke broadwater in "the new york times," had known and public associations with the very same militia groups under scrutiny and now being charged in growing numbers, dozens of these militia group members have now been charged, some of them for conspiring to overthrow our democracy on 1/6. what do we do about the fact that some of these threats are within the republican ranks? >> yeah, i mean, that's one of the reasons why we don't have a commission, not just because we've talked about, can they talk about this, is bipartisanship broken? that's one part of the conversation. but you also have part of the conversation that if what, you know, democrats and a lot of people that are -- a lot of people believe is true, that donald trump incited this -- incited what happened on january 6th and more importantly all of the lies that were told leading up to that, had something to do with january 6th, what does that

mean for the republicans that repeated those things? that is some self-reflection that washington, d.c., is not really capable of right now. the idea that you may have had something to do with it by repeating something that the president of the united states who was in office at that point was saying is hard to deal with. you also have this -- the issue with the subpoena power of this 9/11 style commission that was out in the ether and is now basically dead in the water because you know, people like you, you talked about kevin mccarthy who talked to donald trump that day on the phone. what was that conversation like? we know because he's talked to a lot of members about it, but that's something they would want to hear from. and so this is about the self-reflection of the republican party. this is about them wanting to move on from january 6th and not have a full-blown conversation about it. and most importantly, it's about them trying to whitewash it, right? we saw this and we talked about it back in february. we started to see ron johnson. we started to see fox news try

to say this wasn't that dangerous. why are we being so mean to these people? i didn't feel scared. all of those things. and so now here we are in june, and you have a lot of members of the republican party who say, you know, this was antifa. this was -- this wasn't scary. they weren't going to hurt anybody. so that is where we are as a country, and that is where we are in trying to investigate what happened on january 6th, which, to this day, we have to remember, it wasn't just about the members of congress. it wasn't just about then vice president mike pence. there are all the people that work in that building. there are all the journalists that were there that building just to chronicle and work on this historic moment in our history, and we -- they will never -- they may never get any kind of closure, and that is one of the issues, when i talk to folks about their disappointment in this january 6th commission not existing, that's it. they won't know what happened. there are so many questions about what happened then that we won't know and may never know, even if there are other types of investigations.

>> clint, you referenced this earlier, and i want to come back to it. this is reporting from my colleague, ken delanie. after a 100-day review, the white house didn't make a decision about what might be the biggest policy decision with regard to what it's it says is the most urgent security threat to the united states, whether to seek a law with specific criminal penalties. white house officials said they didn't have enough information and asked the justice department to further review the issue. with the current posture of the republican party and its media echo chamber, i imagine that we can sit here today and examine what that review might look like. from the security standpoint, just talk about why it's needed. >> nicole, if i can, i'll give you a scenario and a comparison. if it's international terrorism, and al qaeda ideologue says to an american, hey, i think you

should go and storm into the capitol and stop a democratic process, essentially breaking the law, just that person being an adherent, inspired by the ideology, even if they don't even directly communicate, the fbi could open a case on that individual because it's al qaeda inspired and it's designated by the state department as a foreign terrorist group. now, imagine a political person, an ideologue of a certain conspiracy belief system says, i think america should storm the capitol, break in and stop a democratic process. nothing can be done investigatively because there's been no designated position on that domestic terrorism case. there's no group designated against it which means unless that individual says something talking about violence, unless that person does a preemptive act, there's nothing really to charge them on. so, there's no reason to open a case. without that reason to open the case, you can't look at social media feeds. you can't go diving into

personnel records. you can't put the pieces together, so a militia group, for example, you can't act as if they're part of a group. you have to investigate each individual person and then work from there. the only reason they can put this conspiracy case together today, the ones that we're seeing starting to roll out, is they committed an overt act and now we are reacting to violence rather than trying to preempt violence. that's the problem with our counterterrorism approach in the u.s. right now. so there either needs to be a longer statute developed or there needs to be an ideologically inspired method by which director wray or the department of homeland security can build up some body of evidence so they can be more preemptive. as it stands, we should absolutely expect that what we saw on january 6th will either happen again in our nation's capital or at any of the state capitals or municipal or city areas around the country, because legally, nothing has changed. the fbi will be required to sit back if they continue to sit in this posture and anything they report on here on out would be

seen as policing political free speech unless there's a specific mention of violence, which i thought the dhs secretary and attorney general garland today both did a good job of expressing, but it shows, really, the bind that we are back on our heels to this day in terms of domestic terrorism. >> that's an unbelievable -- i think conundrum is too weak of a word. it's an unbelievable crisis in terms of the threat facing our homeland. thank you all for starting us off today, clint watts and miles taylor. eugene daniels is sticking around a little longer. when we return, the bombshell reporting over the past few days about the perversion of justice under the ex-president is a five alarm fire for democracy and it is not a stretch to imagine that an ex-president who would try to enlist the doj to invalidate election results might also secretly spy on democrats and journalists. reaction to all of it from a top

democrat from the house judiciary committee is next. top democrat from the house judiciary committee is next. geneva with russian president vladimir putin, confidence from president biden and the ongoing repudiation of his predecessor, and the political newcomer who hopes his history-making campaign for governor can rewrite the rules in a deep red state. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. no, he's not in his room. ♪♪ dad, why didn't you answer your phone? your mother loved this park. ♪♪ she did. as your business changes, the united states postal service is changing with it. with e-commerce that runs at the speed of now. next day and two-day shipping nationwide,

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we face the world head on. call today for your free decision guide. never hide. let's get to work. yeah! ♪ ♪ whoa. that's what i'm talking about. are you ready -- >> always ready. >> some confidence on display there from president biden who landed in geneva today, less than 24 hours before his

face-to-face meeting with vladimir putin. we're getting last-minute details this afternoon, including the issues president biden plans to raise over what's expected to be an hours-long multisession event. among them, cybersecurity. election interference, russian aggression in ukraine, human rights abuses, the belarus plane hijacking, and americans jailed in russia. our "washington post" colleague writes in the "washington post," it is hard to overstate the stakes for biden of this first in-person meeting with the geopolitical adversary. a central theme of his presidency is that democracies do a better job for their people than autocracies, and putin is among the world's leading challengers to that idea. biden also is intent on showing that the u.s. has moved on from the trump era's tolerance of authoritarians and this is a pivotal moment for that effort. on that last point, recall what anne gearan asked president biden just yesterday. >> you've said several times that america is back at allies'

sides. they may still be alarmed by the continued hold that donald trump has over the republican party and the rise of nationalist figures like him around the world. what do you say to those allies, what have you been saying to them at these meetings about how the next president of the united states can keep any promises you make. >> what i'm saying to them is, watch me. i mean, i'm not saying any of them, quite frankly. i'm just going out. people, as i've said before, don't doubt that i mean what i say, and they believe that i keep my commitments when i say it. >> joining our conversation, the aforementioned anne gearan who is traveling with the president.

and robert gibbs is here, former obama white house secretary, lucky for us, both msnbc contributors. anne, it was such a moment. i was watching it live. i emailed with someone traveling with the president, and i had the sense that he was giving you an answer that he gives in private, which is the true answer, that the biden doctrine, if you will, is to sort of not try to polish any of our political realities but to just deliver, whether it's vaccines, whether it's straight talk to putin, and that he was pretty frank in saying, that's all i've got to work with, anne. >> yeah, nicole, i really felt like he had been thinking about this question, and he had a chance to tab it, and i'm sure a lot of his aides aren't happy with the lengths he went in answering it, but his answer was telling. it shows that he knows that there's a real underlying problem here that a week of very warm meetings with allies isn't

going to fix. i mean, all those allies know that the u.s. election cycle is very short. we've got a midterm election coming up in which the balance of power could change in congress, and president biden's agenda already stalled could just go completely in the tank. and then there could be a different president of a different party and a different viewpoint in dealing with allies in just two years after that. so, they are delighted to see him, but they're wary about what might happen next, and for all the warm welcome that he has had all week, you can tell in his answer that he's been thinking about the fact that they know, just as he knows, that u.s. politics may be different coming down the line, and the things he's saying to these allies may not be said by the next president. >> you know, i mean, robert gibbs, it requires sort of this ability to hold two ideas in our mind at the same time. yes, america is back. president biden embodies that.

he knows a lot of these people from his time as vice president, from his time in the senate. and it may or may not be a durable return to being a partner to the world's democracies. how -- i mean, and that is different from the challenges my boss faced on the world stage, which were largely in friction around his post-9/11 foreign policies. your president, obviously, more warmly received for a variety of reasons. but it is different from the challenges on a world stage than any of his recent predecessors. >> yeah, and i don't think that anybody in the white house, and i doubt even president biden believed this was all going to be different after one week in europe or one set of meetings. i do think, to anne's question, and i will say i detected a bit of a sigh from president biden trying to answer it, but i do think the beginning of that question, you know, the answer about the grip of trump on this party, vladimir putin's going to sit across from a president

tomorrow in switzerland that is not afraid to call him out on cybersecurity, on election meddling, on human rights, on the issues that we believe they disrupt global stability and global order. it will be different from the handshake and the winks that putin got for four years from donald trump. there will be interpreters and aides in these meetings. this won't be just the two of them talking about god only knows what. so, i don't expect, again, that that, in and of itself, is four years of repair, but i do think it will be an important demarcation point and maybe inflection in how putin is received by this government and viewed a little bit differently on the world stage because of it. >> you know, anne, robert gibbs raises a great point. i mean, a lot of what we ended up being informed by in donald trump's interactions with russians was through the russians. i'm thinking of lavrov and

the -- or kislyak, one of them in the oval office. we heard about that from photos posted on russian media. donald trump sometimes, i guess, ditched his translator and used putin's. what is the plan for reading out the press after the bilat with putin and president biden? >> well, i wish i knew the exact answer to that, nicole, but we will have a chance to hear from each of the leaders themselves, not side-by-side the way they were in helsinki, famously, in 2018, but we will hear first from putin, and as you well know, he tends to go on a bit, so that might be a lengthy press conference, and then we will hear from president biden after that. so, each of them will have a chance to frame what happened and what they talked about and answer questions about it, and of course, you know, the -- there's some value in going last in that president biden will obviously be asked about things

that putin just said and he can, to a degree, have the last word. but during the day, we don't expect to hear a great deal. i think it's going to be a whole long day of meetings behind closed doors when the very large press corps gathered here doesn't know a great deal about what's happening in there. >> robert gibbs, what are you watching for tomorrow? >> well, i think it will be interesting to see -- look, i think expectations rightly are low for what you would think of as a deliverable from this meeting. but i will be interested to see if there are issues that are common to each country's concerns that they're willing to have a stable, workable relationship on, right? i think that will be interesting to watch, and again, i think it will be also interesting to watch to the degree to which afterwards that president biden talks about the tough talk that he gave to vladimir putin. you know, that may not hurt him at home, but you know, i think

for four years, russians have been able to turn on the russian tv and see an american president actually holding the government -- the american government greater hostage than asking putin to change his behavior. and so, i don't think that putin is going to have quite the foil, and i think it will be interesting to see how he operates, answering those questions after this, because i don't think he can just begin to wipe away and question the premise of everything that he's getting asked, because now an american president will be putting our country's values and beliefs in front of him. >> inwards, face-to-face. it will be a change. anne gearan, robert gibbs, thank you so much for spending time with us. you should all know we will have full coverage of the biden-putin summit tomorrow on msnbc, live as it's all happening. when we return, we will meet a trail blazing candidate for

governor of arkansas. the political newcomer who is looking to beat one of the most visible figures in trump world for the job. that story's next. trump world for the job. that story's next. was that your great-grandmother, keeping the family together? was that your grandfather, paving the way for change.

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. to me, there's never been a conflict between science and faith. i'm a physicist. i'm also an ordained minister. >> and liftoff. liftoff. >> some lessons were tougher than others. that moment, something opened up in me.

a world of science and sacrifice. service and exploration. arkansas is ready for a big leap forward, but we need the right leaders. the last few years have shown just how easy it is to slip back in time, so that's why i'm running for governor. >> that was just a small part of an introductory biographical ad for dr. chris jones a democrat who announced today that he is running to be governor of arkansas. jones, who led a nonprofit in little rock and was an assistant dean at m.i.t., becomes one of the first african-american candidates for governor of arkansas in more than a century. he joins a field of democratic and republican candidates looking to replace term limited governor asa hutchinson, a field on the republican side that includes former press secretary sarah huckabee sanders. joining us now is dr. chris jones, the democrat running to be governor of arkansas. thank you for joining us, sir. tell us why you're running. >> well, i'm running because we want to make a difference in

arkansas, which before i jump into that, let me say thank you for having me on. arkansas's a special place. i've been in this state, my family's been here for over 200 years and i'm looking forward to bringing arkansans together and making a difference as we look to the future. >> i watched your campaign video. it is very well done. you spend a lot of time talking about your background in science, and as a government scientist. your state is, i think, less than a third vaccinated. is science the best foot to lead with in your state? >> you know, nicole, thank you for the question. i think science is always a great foot to lead with. here's what we're concerned about. understanding the problems on the ground here in arkansas and finding the best solutions. so, yeah, i'm excited about the solutions that we'll have. >> your -- i ask this as a sort of a personal question. i'm from a politically divided

family. your brother is also running for office as a republican in the attorney general race. how's that going? >> oh, you know, one of the things that we have in common is that we both love our mother's caramel cake. we have our divisions, things that we want to do and see in politics, but i love him. i wish him well. and what i know is that there are tons of arkansans across the state that care about the future of arkansas, and those are the folks we're engaging with. >> what is your campaign going to be about? and i think that you'll -- i'm not going to do it here, but you'll hear a lot of sort of long shot odds, a state that elects more republicans than democrats. what is your campaign going to be about? >> well, you know, i'll first say, go to chrisforgovernor.com and you'll be able to continually find out what we're talking about. and there it went. but we are focused on solving problems for arkansans. we're going to be focused on infrastructure.

we're going to be focused on education. and we're going to focus on economic development. these are things that matter. these are things that will make a different in the day-to-day lives, and i'll tell you one other point i'll make. it is going to be a tough road. there are long shots, but my family's been here for 200 years, and i know today there are folks that are facing longer shots and tougher roads than we're about to face. so i'm willing to take the tough road so that someone else will have a better life, and that's what we want. >> did the election of president biden and vice president harris play into your decision to run at all? do you plan to run with them and on their agenda in arkansas? >> again, appreciate the question, nicole. i plan to run focused on the things that arkansans are focused on. we need to do a better job in education. we have infrastructure that needs fixing. and for me, the decision was about how do i best serve the

home state that is -- that made me who i am and allowed me to have so many opportunities. and i want every child in the state of arkansas to be able to choose from a range of opportunities that i was able to choose from. >> dr. chris jones, you intrigued us with your opening message. we will continue to watch your race. we hope you'll come back and spend some time with us as it heats up. thank you for joining us today. when we return, a top democrat on the house judiciary committee on everything we are learning about the disgraced ex-president's perversion of justice and democracy. that's next. perversion of justice and democracy. that's next.

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oooooow. sir. with our lead story today of documented proof in the form of emails whose donald trump directly and personally pressured then acting attorney general mr. rosen to try to get the justice department to help in his efforts to steal a fair election. to overturn the results in six days. it is not a stretch to imagine the very same human being would be all too willing to use that same justice department to sue people on the other end of the emails to target anyone he saw as a threat. the house judiciary committee is opening a federal investigation into the justice department's surveillance of journalists, members of congress and white house counsel don mcgahn. jerry nadler has this to say. even if these reports are

completely unrelated, they raise serious constitutional and separation of power concerns. it is also possible these cases are merely a first glimpse into a coordinated effort by the trump administration to target political opposition. if so, we must learn the full extent of this gross abuse of power, rout out the individuals responsible and hold them accountable for their actions. a member of the judiciary committee and an impeachment manager. we're excited to talk to you about all of this. and first on just the way we've talked about these recent revelations, that the justice department wants gag orders lifted, has informed five of trump's most oft repeated enemies. and his own counsel, don mcgahn who became the star witness in the mueller investigation. if he's willing to ask his a.g. to overturn the election result

in six days, why don't we presume that he had a role in all that surveillance? >> well, you're precisely right. and it's good to be with you. this is a scandal of epic proportions. it's outrageous in terms of what we've learned thus far, as you've described. at the end of the day, there is a lot that we don't know. and it is why the judiciary committee has embarked on this investigation that our chairman, chairman nadler announced just yesterday. as em, it is clear that this is but a glimpse into what was clearly an undermining of the rule of law. the likes of which our country really hasn't experienced, certainly since the watergate scandal and perhaps in the modern history of our country, there is no parallel. so there is a lot more to learn and get to the bottom of and we plan to do it in a vigorous and methodical way. >> do you have a list of names at a member level for the

committee of individuals you would like to hear from? do they include people like john who headed the national security division, who announced his depart you early because of some of the reporting? >> i think there are a number of people that ultimately the committee will want to hear from in terms of officials at the department of justice, former officials and current officials, the gentleman you mentioned may perhaps be one of them. at the end of the day, first and foremost, the challenge for the committee will get a better grasp of the universe of individuals that were targeted and whether this was part of a larger pattern in terms of targeting the political end ms. of the president. and then fwrork there to determine which individuals were involved and having them come before the committee you said oath, that will involve the subpoenaing, potentially the testimony of former attorney general barr and sessions. i think the committee will follow the facts wherever they lead. >> there is this elephant in the room of this reporting today,

that what the emails show is, and it is so haunting to read the kinds of things donald trump was personally sending days before his planned rally on the 6th that led to the insurrection at the capitol where he was calling people to washington, hoping pence did the right thing. in the days leading up to it, he is using every lever of the federal government. he's on a phone call with ratheren sperger. it is inevitable. are they going to be done together? or are you sort of navigating turf with the stalling by republicans of a 1/6 commission? >> i think these will be pursued on parallel paths in the congress. ultimately i share your outrage at the emails released by the oversight committee, the government reform committee earlier with respect to what you mentioned in the ways in which

the president was trying to use the department of justice, to perpetuate his effort to undermine the peaceful transfer of power that has governed our country. and much of this was alluded to in the impeachment trial as we spoke on the floor of the senate about the ways this president was attempting to do precisely that. in terms of where we go from here, the judiciary committee will manage jurisdictionally the investigation of the weaponization of doj against the president's political enemies and perhaps exhibit a being the recent reports regard targeting the members of congress. and ultimately, we are moving toward a path with respect to the investigation of january 6th, having committees of jurisdiction take that up in a more muscular way or potential lay select committee being established. and i suspect we'll know more on that front in the coming days.

>> can you share anything about what those conversations sound like and looked like today? >> i think above everything else, nicole, and you've expanded on this a bit already. i think the email disclosures last night, the news breaking several days ago regarding the targeting of several members of congress, it just reveals how corrupted the department of justice had become under the trump administration and i think to a degree that perhaps even those of us who are not naive about the former president and his ability to undermine the rule of law, that perhaps we're not fully aware of just the scope of the ways in which they would use the department of justice, with thattize the department of justice to target political enemies and the precipice that our country as a constitutional republic was on in the days leading to january 6th. and the steps we have to take now to ensure this kind of conduct never happens again,

irrespective of who the president is. >> yeah. i mean, just to button this part of conversation up, in the "new york times" report, foreign individuals involved specifically in sweeping up congressman schiff and swalwell still work at the justice department. are you satisfied that merrick garland and lisa monaco are giving you the answers you want? >> i would say the willingness of the attorney general to try to turn the page and clean up the department. justice, and we certainly want to see him succeed in that regard. i'm happy that the inspector general has launched an investigation. the reality is that cannot be for oversight. congress has a role to play to get to the bottom of it and we intend to do that. i would hope the department of justice you said attorney general garland will cooperate with that probe that we will initiate here in the coming days. >> we will be watching. congressman joe neguse, we have wanted to talk to you about

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