extension of personal relationships, and you know so well that personal relationships are so critical to biden's perception of politics and to the world. what did you learn from vladimir putin from watching him and president biden here at this press conference? >> reporter: well, you know, kasie, as i was listening to the president really talk about in personal terms how this meeting from his perspective played out, i was thinking to what then-vice president biden said when i was traveling with him to beijing ten years ago when he had the first of many meetings with then-chinese president xi jinping. when you have as complicated a relationship as you did then, china relationship, now u.s./china relationship, you don't necessarily need a meeting. the fact that he and putin didn't need as much time as was budgeted to him, this seems like

something that might have been accomplished in another phone call. they've already spoken by phone a number of times, but it was clearly important to this president who, yes, has been conducting foreign policy for 50 years, but who is only now, as president of the united states, in control of that foreign policy, an important opportunity to speak directly and look directly and to speak directly to president putin about all of this. i will say based on what we were talking about before, there are some issues from putin that you respond to proactively, there are some you maybe wait for a question to respond, and there are some things you ignore. he ticked through a number of issues right at the top. first and foremost, human rights. he asked a question about alexey navalny if he was killed under his watch. there were certainly things that had to be brought up proactively as well and is more to digest as we learn what happened behind the scenes. >> andrea, how will putin take

biden's posture today, this public posture? what will he embrace -- just like the same question we asked before of biden. what will biden embrace and push back on for putin? >> i think with putin there was a lot of good news here with president biden coming in and looking for pragmatism and places we can cooperate. for putin that's huge. right there the two world's nuclear superpowers having the ability to sit down one on one -- >> he really likes the world to know he's a superpower, right? that's the one thing he's got over china. >> exactly. so i'm surprised he didn't emphasize that more in his press conference. he'll be looking to build on this pragmatism to say he has a

role in global affairs, that russia is not isolated. despite all the attempts by the united states in the west with the sanctions and other tough rhetoric, the meeting with allies, he can walk home and say, look, russia is not isolated. we have a seat at the table in this arms control and stability talk, and we are someone you'll have to reckon with. >> did you see president biden say putin knows there will be consequences if there are cyberattacks. he doesn't know exactly what they are but he knows there are consequences. do you know if he'll change his mind on that? >> we know he is looking for attacks by the united states. the ground is not fertile for cyber. the one interesting thing president biden did say is that they will address cyber under this arms control and strategic

ability framework. so we know cyberspace creates an escalation. president biden said they have designated 16 installations, critical infrastructure strikes, that are off bounds in the cyber domain. because what they're trying to avoid is some attack on critical infrastructure that's misunderstood and that rapidly escalates into a more kinetic conflict. i don't think we're at the ransomware, i don't think we're ready to take that on, but we can discuss cyber under this umbrella and an agreement not to attack the commander controls. president biden making the rules of the road, and through that dialogue, i think we'll start to get to these cyber issues which hopefully can turn to something more. the other important thing, though, the most interesting thing at the end is when his back was raised about, are you going to change putin's calculus? we're not going to change their

calculus, so president biden came in knowing that he has to emphasize resilience. they elevated cyber, anti-corruption, working with allies. if we can't change putin's tactics, then at least we can mitigate the effect of them. >> rick stengel, i was also taken by president biden's faith that respect on the world stage would have a way of impacting change in the behavior of putin, and also when he spoke about china in that press conference. you know, that's been the grand hope of many an american president, that somehow the arc of justice bends, you know, the arc of history bends toward justice, that eventually global public opinion will matter. i understand the idea behind it and the hope. is that more hope, or do you think there's something to it? >> i think there's something to it, chuck. i mean, there is a long

continuum of how people look at russia in the foreign policy establishment. there is the hardliners who think you've got to punish them for everything. that's the only thing they respond to is strength. then there are people on the other end that say, you know what, all russia wants to be is acknowledged on the world stage, to be treated like an equal and a superpower and they'll behave better. i thought what biden did today was brilliant in the sense that he weaved those two things together. he treated putin as a relative equal, as a superpower, as a distinguished statesman, but i thought he also did something that american presidents need to do and don't always do, which he said there are going to be consequences for this if you misbehave. there was a carrot and a stick that he kind of referred to throughout his whole conversation. the carrot is the meeting today. you're on the world stage with me with the u.s. president. but the stick is if you don't

tow the -- toe the line, and we're going to measure this over the next three months, six months, there is going to be consequences. and i think putin understands that. one of the virtues which biden did today, he talked about foreign policy like a regular guy, like that interesting guy at the bar who is kind of much smarter than you thought he was, you know, and there's nothing mystical or recognized about foreign policy, it's just about people acting in their mutual self-interest. i think the american people will listen to that and go, yeah, that's right. >> so, geoff bennet, we were talking before the press conference about the allies he was speaking with adversaries, but also the audience here, that russia and china are very much a part of a political conversation. what did you hear from the president that may end up as

part of that conversation? >> kasie, it's such a great point that you raise, and i think that largely accounts for that flash of frustration from president biden at the end there when he was asked how are you so confident that putin will change his behavior? that wasn't the point biden was making, and i can tell you that covering this president a few times where he does show frustration, his word were misinterpreted or deliberately misunderstood, let's put it that way. the president said he wanted to have this face-to-face meeting so there would be no room for mistakes, no room for misunderstandings, and then he used that phrase, i accomplished what i set out to do. coming into this, the white house telegraphed implicitly and explicitly that there would be no deliverables and all they really wanted was to have a more stable and predictive relationship. we heard from president biden this is the beginning of the process, it's certainly not the end of it, and the metric of

success likely won't be known for six months to a year from now. so certainly -- and another thing i think was also well-advised to have those press conferences separately. there had been some questions and concerns in some quarters about who should go first, who should go second. imagine if president biden had to sit there with putin and deal with denialism and what-aboutism would be a lot to digest. it was also interesting to hear president biden say, yeah, we talked about cyberattacks and we also agreed when it comes to energy and waterways, that should be off limits. quite a contrast from putin who denied it altogether and said canada was more responsible for cyberattacks than was russia. all in all, at the end of the day, when putin and biden think about this meeting, they'll be happy with what happened today. >> it looked like here's putin wanting to celebrate being on

the world stage. he looked like he was in a basement. biden is trying to downplay the significance and importance of this meeting, and yet at the same time this incredible, picturesque background. rich stengel, andrea kendall-taylor, thank you for making this coverage possible. that does it for us. speaking of mr. bennet, he takes over after the break. over after the break introducing aleve x. it's fast, powerful long-lasting relief

with a revolutionary, rollerball design. because with the right pain reliever... life opens up. aleve it, and see what's possible. [lazer beam and sizzling sounds] ♪♪ new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today. (laverne cox) surround yourself with people that know your worth. whose resumes on indeed m♪stand up, when you're. standing in the♪ ♪presence of a legend♪ ♪you better stand, stand, stand, stand up♪

among my patients i often see them have teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. does it worry me? absolutely. sensodyne sensitivity and gum gives us a dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. there's no question it's something that i would recommend.

it's good to be with you. i'm geoff bennet and we are following the very latest in the meetings between biden and putin. the summit and the press conferences are over. the two emerged from their talks after about four hours, including a 45-minute break. president biden giving a thumbs-up on his way in, as you see right there. for his part, putin construed the meeting as productive.

in the rambling news conference that followed, he used what-aboutisms on russian aggression and human rights abuses. the meeting itself lasted just three hours 21 minutes, short of the four or five hours the russians said to expect, and remember, that includes time for translation. three hours not enough time to get to everything, especially in detail. here's what the leaders said afterwards. >> most of the cyberattacks on the world are carried out by the cyber realm of the united states. second place is canada. as for who is throwing whom in jail, people came to the u.s. congress with political demands. they would be called domestic terrorists. they are being accused of a number of other crimes. some of them were arrested right

away after the events and 30 of them are still under arrest. it's unclear on what grounds. >> i told president putin my agenda is not against russia or anyone else. it's for the american people. i also told him that no president of the united states could keep faith with the american people if they did not speak out to defend our democratic values, and i raised the case of two wrongful imprisonments in american citizens, paul whelan and trevor reed. i also raised the ability to operate and the importance of free press and freedom of speech. i made it clear we will not tolerate attempts to violate our democratic stability and we would respond. bottom line, i told president putin that we needed some basic rules of the road that we can

all abide by. >> joining us now is msnbc news correspondent keir simmons who is in moscow. we expect that to be the beast as we expect president biden to walk up the tarmac and get on the airplane to get back to the states. we also have ben rhodes and secretary of defense for ukraine and asia, evelyn farcic. we were told not to expect any deliverables, yet we were told that the russians and the americans are expected to return back to their posts, then we were told they arrived on an agreement for strategic stability. what, in plain english, is that? >> geoff, you put it right in the last segment, that we don't

see results until later. to answer your question about strategic stability, we know coming into the summit, we know they want stability in their relationship. that means no more predictable stuff in terms of attacks. strategic stability is a term we defense wonks use to describe the military relationship between two countries, and it usually just applies, frankly, between russia and the united states. during the cold war, we had stability when we had nuclear imperity. now we have the upper hand and there is no parody. so the russians are now developing many dangerous weapons, hypersonic missiles which we are also developing, but they have a nuclear-powered cruise missile they're developing which is a fire and forget thing. that introduces a lot of danger, a lot of miscalculation potential, right, into the relationship. but the russians right now feel

very vulnerable because they know we don't have that stability, that we, the united states, have the upper hand conventionally, and to some extent, maybe nuclear. >> it is 6:00, it looks like, in geneva. 8:00, for give me, my eyesight is not that great. president biden there greeting some of what we would expect to be u.s. officials. i'm not entirely sure who those folks are, the president wearing his trademark aviators. you can see the president there in the foreground of the american flag getting into the beast. the president enjoying some quick chatting there. ben rhodes, i want to come to you, because it's tough to have a breakthrough with vladimir putin when his state of view that we heard in the press conference is that all the problems in the world result from the u.s. >> that's exactly right. we have over a 20-year record of who putin is.

the reality is he's gotten more and more aggressive in his efforts to undermine american democracy, to turn american allies against one another, to use cyberattacks, to potentially look the other way when there are ransomware attacks, to lunch disinformation campaigns, to interfere in our elections. this is someone who has been very comfortable establishing himself as an antagonist of the united states and a disruptor. that's part of the his political way back home to justify his rule. you heard the frustration from president biden at the end when someone was asking him, do you think you succeeded in changing vladimir putin, but you're not going to change him. so the question is what can we do to fortify our own democracy at home? there is a lot to do to prevent russia from being able to interfere, but also to get at some of the divisions biden himself as exploited. what can we do to fortify our

democratic alliances around the world, and how can we stand together against russian aggression? that's ultimately going to be much more important than any one message joe biden can deliver to vladimir putin. can nato stand together? can the united states and europe stand together in defense of eastern europe -- >> i'm going to cut you off. i apologize. the president speaking to reporters here. >> thanks for being here. most of the event here, i really do think -- not me, but i think we, the country, has put a different face on where we've been and where we're going. i feel good about it. i feel, you know -- one of the things i think understandably there was a good deal of skepticism, would the g-7 sign on and give america back its sort of leadership role? i think it did. it wasn't me, but they're glad america is back and they acted

that way. then when we went to nato, i think it was the same thing. we had really good meetings there as well as the eu. i didn't get one single person, not one of the world leaders said to any of them, thank you for arranging a meeting with putin. and i thought that i was in a much better position to represent the west after the first few meetings with putin knowing the rest of the world was behind us. i owe them all a debt of gratitude. >> mr. president, since you're heading home, can i ask you about domestic issues? >> if i can answer them. >> the first is the fate of the infrastructure bill. there is a new offer. have you had time to see it? >> i haven't seen it. i honestly haven't seen it. i don't know what the details are. i know that my chief of staff thinks there's some room, that

there may be a means to get this done. i know that schumer and nancy have moved forward on a reconciliation provision as well. so i'm still hopeful we can put together the two bookends here. >> and the second issue is yesterday or earlier this week, mitch mcconnell said if republicans were to take back the senate in 2022, he did not see the way you could get a supreme court justice confirmed. do you have a response to that? that would be next year. >> i know. i know. the answer is mitch is -- mitch has been nothing but no for a long time. and i'm sure he means exactly what he says, but we'll see. >> mr. president, did you talk with president putin about the iran nuclear deal? >> yes. >> what did you discuss and did you find a way to work it out.

>> it was about finding a way, and i'm not going to tell what we discussed. >> there was a question you answered at the very end that you came over to talk about. i think at the heart of it was the question of whether or not you seemed overly optimistic given what we all listened to president putin essentially say the same old things that he said forever, rejecting all responsibility for all that stuff. and i guess the question that she was trying to get to, and maybe you can take another stab at it is, what concrete evidence do you have from these three-plus hours that suggested any movement has been made? i don't mean that to be -- >> i know, but you're all -- look, to be forward you have to be negative. you have to have a negative view of life. you never ask a positive question. why, in fact, do we have an agreement? we'll find out.

we have an agreement to work on a major arms control agreement. i started working on major arms agreements way back in the cold war. if we can do one in the cold war, why couldn't we do one now? we'll see. we will see whether or not it happens. but the thing that always a mazes me about the questions, and i apologize for having been short. if you were in my position, would you say, well, i don't think it's going to happen, it's going to be really bad. you guarantee nothing happens. you guarantee nothing happens. so far -- there's a value to being realistic and put on an optimistic face. look, you all said the same thing about what was going to happen when we had the first meeting of the 7. oh, biden, they're not going to buy biden's stuff. and did that happen, any of it?

a little bit. just a little sliver? when i went to meet with nato, oh, boy, they're not going to be happy, they're all going to be against biden meeting with putin, they're not going to want that. did you hear a single, solitary syllable? what if i had said before i went into the meetings, i think it's going to be really hard, i don't think anything will be changing. same thing when i went into the eu. >> but this is vladimir putin. >> look, it was also -- i don't compare him to putin, but the french president said he would never go for more money for nato. guess what? he's agreed. i mean, look, guys, i'm going to drive you all crazy because i know you want me to always put a negative thrust on things,

particularly in public and negotiate in public. i don't have to trust somebody. we didn't have to trust somebody to get start 2. [ inaudible ] >> i don't trust anybody. look, i've got to get on the plane, but let me say this more than once. >> you can go when you want. >> i know, but here's the thing. i don't see any benefit ever to begin a negotiation -- and i mean you're the brightest people in the country, you're the most important in detail. i'm not being solicitous, you

are. but it makes no sense to tell you what i'm about to do, not because i want to hide anything from you. why would i telegraph that? >> thank you, guys. thank you, guys. [ inaudible question ] >> there is that -- choose my words -- russia is in a very, very difficult spot. they are being squeezed by china. they want desperately to remain a major power. you all are writing about it legitimately. they desperately want to be relevant. and they don't want to be known, at some critics have said, the

upper level with nuclear weapons. it matters. i found that almost every world leader, no matter where they're from, how they perceive their standing in the world. it matters to them. it matters to them in terms of supporting them as well. so i think there is -- i have to shorten this so i can get on the plane. i'm of the view that in the last three to five years, the world has reached a fundamental inflection point about what it's going to look like ten years from now. i mean that literally. it's not hyperbole, it's not like i'm trying to pump it up. i think it's a genuine reality. and so each of the countries around the world, particularly

those who had real power at one time or still do are wondering, how do i maintain and sustain our leadership in the world? that's what the united states is going through right now. i had a meeting with the most powerful people in the world. i never thought we would have people attacking and breaking down the doors of the united states capitol. i didn't think that would happen. i didn't think i would see that in my lifetime. but it's reinforced what i've always known, and what i got taught by my political science professor and by the senior member of the senate that i admire when i got here, that every generation has to re-establish the basis of this fight for democracy. for real. we literally have to do it.

and i've never seen, since the civil war, such an outward assault. just a flat assault. i didn't think that would happen four years ago, but it's happening now. there is a lot at stake. we have our own concerns, but as long as i'm president, we are going to stick to the notion that we're open, accountable and transparent. and i think that's an important message to send the world. thank you, all. >> thank you, mr. president! >> president joe biden heading there to board air force one for his trip back here to the states. evelyn farkas, i tell you what, that to me is the most revealing, i would say, five or six minutes of getting a sense of president biden's world view. we were remarking during that

that this really is the joe biden that so many of us remember, having covered him in previous professional lives that he's had. >> no, completely, geoff. i worked for almost a decade on the senate armed services committee very closely because i worked on foreign policy with the committee that the president obviously was a member of, a leading member of, and he would do that. he would stop in the hallway and talk to reporters, talk to staff, and his staff would be trying to pull him away. he would do it also in front of cameras and hearings, but there he's trying to teach the media and he's talking straight. he's really saying what he thinks. it is kind of fun to watch. >> also with us now is my colleague msnbc news correspondent mike memoli there in geneva. mike, you have covered, just to let folks know, joe biden for 13 years as a private citizen, as a candidate and now as president. everything he just said, how did

that resonate with you? >> reporter: you're absolutely right, geoff, i heard -- the joke about the term the biden whisperer that's been said over the years, and i would snicker when he said that. he gave a pretty good articulation to his approach to politics, his approach to policymaking. he was challenging the reporters on their negative frame of it. he said there is great value of being realistic and optimistic. if you're constantly negative about how you're approaching these topics, you'll never get anything done. i have to say, geoff, after being asked by reporters this entire trip about the putin meeting, he's now being asked, as he's about to fly home, about the very difficult domestic policy challenges he has waiting for him at home, i think he wasn't ready to go there just yet. i think he's really been reveling in the foreign policy he's been engaging in on this trip, the relationships he's

building, re-establishing with some of the other world leaders. this as one official told me, some of the staff who is here with him has been here with him for a long time and seen him do this before, but some haven't, and the theme of the trip for them has been enjoying watching him operate on the world stage, watching him do what he's been doing his whole life and now as president of the united states. i think some of his shortness at times there, and he did apologize for it, was a little bit of frustration that he's giving this up and heading home to a difficult slate of challenges that are waiting for him there. >> i was going to say all this domestic policy can wait, but it's also the wedding anniversary of he and his wife. 40 years, i think. i was struck listening to president biden saying in his conversations with vladimir putin that there were no direct threats but that there didn't need to be, that vladimir putin knows where we stand and he

knows how we will retaliate. he was speaking in the context of cyberattacks. based on what you know, based on your reporting, based on your many conversations with vladimir putin, is that the case? does vladimir putin need to hear a direct threat in order to get the message? >> reporter: oh, yes, vladimir putin is perfectly aware of the power of the united states. i asked him that very question in the interview with him. i said to him, do you worry that u.s. intelligence is deep inside russians and can do something about it? he said, i am aware of it, and then you pointed out that he gave that very message to president putin. i think we have a right to be somewhat cynical about this. i think we have the right to ask the question how this is differently, quite frankly, from a less ambitious version of an attempted reset with russia. i would say respectfully to the president, it's very well to be

upset with the questions, but the questions do have some value. i actually think that perhaps the right answer or an alternative answer that president biden could have given there is to return to the joint statement between russia and the u.s. and just read or just quote this part of it, ensuring predictability in the strategic sphere, reducing the risk of armed conflict and the threat of nuclear war. but president biden could have said is rather than kind of start to say why are you being so negative, shouldn't we be a little positive? he might have said as an answer, look, russia has thousands of nuclear weapons, america has thousands of nuclear weapons. one of the worries for experts in the field is that a cyber war could turn into nuclear threats between the two countries. he could have said, surely it makes sense. we need to talk to the leader of russia -- i was trying to say this when he talked about guardrails -- trying to get some discussions in place that

prevents the risk of some kind of a nuclear threat or worse. that's one way of answering, because the issue with setting out all of the points that he made to president putin and saying, i believe that president putin listened to me, and we'll see what happens in the years a ahead, we could say we know what's in the years ahead, that putin fails to negotiate. in the years gone by, his pattern is to threaten, to deny, to negotiate it all and then use that leverage to build his position on the world stage. the other thing biden was saying was that president putin's reputation is damaged, and i'm not sure president putin sees it

that way. does it make sense for the biden administration to say to the kremlin, we have the ability to hurt you. yes, it does. but here is the issue of that. what president putin will know very well is that washington worries about an escalation whereby you end up in a growing cyber war and there is real damage done to the u.s. as well. and that is -- you know, it's kind of a game of chicken in a certain kind of sense. what we see with president putin, you see it in ukraine, he'll test how far he can go to get attention, to get negotiations, to build his reputation as a key player on the world stage, if you like, without descending into a full-blown war. and, again, there will be people asking whether today was kind of another example of that. he's going to look constructive, he's prepared to talk. has the strategy really changed? the jury is out. president biden said that. we'll see, we'll see as time

goes by. >> nbc's keir simmons. keir, thanks to you and safe travels home. same to mike memoli who is about to make that trip as well. we keep our eye on this majestic plane known as air force one as it makes its way down the tarmac toward home to the united states. i want to bring in the former ambassador of russia who also helped it brief president biden ahead of this summit. i want to get your impression of everything we heard today, and i was struck to hear the president say to the reporters before he got onto air force one, to be a good reporter, you have to be negative. i understand that. he's not wrong. also to be a good reporter, you have to be a little skeptical. to be a good diplomat, do you have to be a little negative, a little skeptical and not necessarily be overoptimistic?

>> i don't like the terms optimistic and pessimistic, i like the frame of what was advanced in this meeting or any other meeting? i think the president is walking a very fine line. on the one hand he wants to cooperate on what they called stability talks. they didn't actually launch the talks, they agreed to talk about launching the talks, and i think that's important. we want to control nuclear weapons, we want to have a follow-on to the new s.t.a.r.t. treaty. that requires engagement with president putin and his government. at the same time there are disagreements we have with russia, starting with the annexation of crimea in 2014, his air force in 2015, siding with great britain in 2015, and you have to push back on those

things. i believe the homework in geneva is giving a strategy at the same time you do engagement. it's not optimism or pessimism, it's having multiple strategies at the same time. >> i'm sorry i had to cut you off earlier when the president was speaking to reporters. what does that work look like? the talks have happened. i think both sides walk away having a better understanding of one another, if you take into account what president biden said, what president putin said. what do the next six months to a year look like? >> i think on this very specific issue of nuclear arms control and strategic stability, you set up something between our militaries and you try to get something going in a space where there's been nothing to the

extent of the new s.t.a.r.t. treaty. can we test whether russia has any information at all in -- i wouldn't even say a partner -- i would say being open to hearing from us on these issues. one of the issues i'm somewhat concerned about, we made some of the same arguments in the obama years. it's not in russia's interest to have a declining economy, it's not in russia's interest to be somewhat of a pariah in terms of records. i think putin doesn't care. as long as he's wealthy and in power and able to be taken seriously on the world stage, he's fine. even though there are other indicators suggesting russia is moving in the wrong direction. when you look at when this summit was announced, you had the hijacking of an airliner so it could be detained, you had

more with ransomware attacks. we have yet to see putin take a stand in the way we want as americans. so what we're watching is what can both be done diplomatically to have a good relationship, and the iran deal came up, whether aid can get into syria to help people who desperately need it there. there are areas where we can test whether pragmatism can lead to results, and do we continue to see these disinformation campaigns, this trolling of democracy. i think we have to prepare for sanctions to be laid on him. president biden said i laid it out for him and i'm waiting to see if he can move in some kind of pragmatic direction.

but if he can't, then the ball is back in our court to respond as the united states of america. >> evelyn farkas, final thought? >> first, i think it was positive in that president biden went, he showed the world we're back together with our partners and allies. that was the most important thing. i know you guys were really focused on this meeting. this meeting was to hopefully deliver a tough message, to see if there was a chance for making -- really just creating a constructive conversation. i think that ben was right. but other than that, i don't expect the russian government's foreign policy to change, i don't expect vladimir putin to suddenly not be a risk taker or to care about human rights. it's really up to the united states and our allies to take the situation under control. >> evelyn farkas, ambassador mcfaul, my thanks to you. aside from describing the talks as, quote, constructive, there was little to glean from

president putin's press conference today. he said global issues like cyberattacks and prisoners will happen at another time. so what exactly does putin want from the united states? joining us now, correspondent for puck, julia yaffy, and this is the founder of the free russia foundation. julia, i'll start with you. what did vladimir putin want from this summit and did he get it? >> well, he wanted to show that he is an equal of the united states. that's why he made sure to let us know that he didn't want the summit, he didn't call for it, but he showed up. that's him showing his i'm above it all kind of, yeah, feeling. he also really clearly enjoyed his press conference.

you could see him not really wanting it to end. he would say, okay, this is the last question, and then he would take a few more. i do agree with what ben rhodes said. putin doesn't really care about his position on the world stage. i think he decided after 2014, after the annexation of crimea and the u.s. sanctions and western sanctions that followed that it's better to be feared than loved, and fear is a kind of relevance and the fact that there is a media circus around this whole summit, that we're covering it live wall to wall, that twitter is part of it, there is a hoard of journalists there, i think that also gives putin a measure of -- i think he really benefits from this and he does get a lot of international relevance and relevance on the world stage from it. >> what about that, we heard from putin critics this week

that said this summit should not happen for that very reason, given the risk and reward matrix was that the risk of elevating putin was too great. >> for me it's not only important whether the meeting takes place or not but what was said in that meeting. what's really important to me, for the first time in many, many years we saw and heard an american president put the issue of human rights front and square in these bilateral talks. let's make something clear at the outset. raising human rights issues is not a publicity stunt. it's not some sort of posturing. it's not any of these things that these regimes always dismiss. human rights are inextricably linked to issues of security, issues of economic development. this has been recognized for many decades now. this is originated in the

helsinki. they clearly said human rights is not of international relevance. we've seen both parties frankly completely ignore these issues, i guess, to find something with putin on the stage. this approach is also very impractical, because external aggression and internal aggression are the same point. those american presidents who have decided to ignore these domestic human rights abuses -- george w. bush looked into putin's eyes and saw his soul, obama tried to invite putin to the g.a. it's really important that president biden made it clear both here before going to geneva and his meeting with putin today that human rights is essential to this meeting. this is really, really important. >> we should remind folks, for

you this is not an academic exercise. you are a supporter, were a supporter of a putin opposition figure, and you were targeted presumably for political reasons. >> we now know thanks to amazing investigative journaling, these are the same people who last year poisoned alexey navalny who is unlawfully incarcerated in russia. he was gunned down literally in front of the kremlin walls and to this day the russian government continues to protect the masterminds of this assassination. attempted assassinations and assassinations have become part of the putin regime. you're exactly right, it's striking the american president set out the name of alexey

navalny. prisoners recognize him as such of amnesty international. vladimir putin has never once said the name alexey navalny. he finds all kinds of euphimisms. this gentleman you mention, you know, you could have a whole list of euphamisms that he uses to talk about navalny. 400 political prisoners, conservative estimate, verified by human rights groups based on terms. alexey navalny is one of them, so is the man who was snatched from a mane that was about to take off on the runway. the longest serving political prisoner has served for 18 years. if i were to name every single name, we would be here two hours. we have more political prisoners in russia under vladimir putin today than we had in the years

of the soviet union. it's been a long and noble tradition am these bilateral summits that american presidents of both political parties managed to secure the release of prominent prisoners of confidence. president reagan and mikhail gorbachev also took place in geneva, seven miles from the place where biden and putin met today. the main issues were arms control and missile defense president reagan made sure and made clear to gorbachev there would be no other progress on other shalls unless there were tangible progress on human rights. within just over a year, all three regained their freedom. this is just to show how effective personal advocacy from an american president can be. and reagan followed in the footsteps of other presidents, from nixon, to ford, to carter, who managed to secure the

release of political prisoners. we've heard this issue mentioned several times in the run-up before and after the meeting, waup of prisoner exchange. i hope if there's one practical deliverable after the biden/putin meeting today is that at least a handful of these nearly 400 political prisoners in putin's russia regain their freedom. secretary of state wrote to him after he managed to secure the freedom of a group of religious prisoners that it is a gift of wantonment to secure the release of a human being. it is a gift now in president biden's power and hope to god he uses it. >> given everything that vladimir just said give us your knowledge on vladimir putin how this summit and press conferences will be represented and received in moscow. >> well weerk know -- excuse me. in the lead-up to the summit

took a picture of himself with his feet up on her desk was on russian state tv and the lead-up to the summit. so i think it's being presented as has always been, that putin is this calm, above-it-all, adult in the room. taking on russia's adversaries as an equal and recognized equal of these global superpowers and that, you know, he has again restored russia's prestige, that russia is no longer mocked or disregarded as people believe it was in the '90s. that now it's, you know, a giant on the world stage whose views have to be considered, whose leader has to be talked to. again in such -- with such fan fare and such global attention.

i think it's going to -- on state tv, i think it's going to be perceived in this way. i'm already seeing in the russian media that people have piped up on putin's comments that alexey navalny left germany for treatment and yulia has posted a photograph of the gurney on which navalny left russia, which looks like a ka cocon, a coffin, after being poisoned and air lifted out of russia. people are very much picking up on the insane, absurd hypocrisy of that statement. >> julia, vladimir, thank you for the brilliant insights and perspectives, thank you. my friend and colleague hallie jackson is with us and phil rubbinger of "the

washington post." hallie, good to see you as always. the president said i did what i came here to do. right? >> yeah. >> mission accomplished. >> he said let's see in lee to six months. let's hold off on declaring victory. >> the white house telegraphed low expectations, no deliverables. the president feels like he did what he set out to do, at least in terms of the meetings this morning. >> yeah. you think about what we talked about with our maying team of experts like michael mcfaul, the expectation was they're going to keep talking, which they are. we know those discussions will be led by secretary blinken and lavrov. returning to their posts for the ambassadors, not an earth shattering deal but it had been previewed as an item that could be a confidence builder moving forward in both of these relationships. i was struck by the takeaways of the tone of vladimir putin by joe biden and how -- i don't

want to say differential but this was extra teenlic on putin, right? putin knows how to be nasty a lot. he chose not to do that on the world stage with the eyes of everybody watching him about what he would say about this conversation. frankly, president biden reflected some of that back making it very clear, this was not tense. it was not hostile. much was made in the hours earlier because we were look at the timing, 90 minutes, two hours, whatever. president biden's point was it was short because we got a lot of stuff done in not a long period of time. he's in the air. he hasn't landed yet in washington. he's coming under serious criticism from republicans who think he showed weak mes at this stumt, that he did not act appropriately on the world stage representing the united states. that's what he will have to face as he lands, as i'm look at the capitol. >> the same republicans who had nothing to say about the hechlt lsinki summit that trump held.

>> some had something to say. >> to hallie's great point about happy speak from vladimir putin to president biden, which struck me we heard vladimir putin say they speak the same moral language. in essence, vladimir putin was trying to elevate himself to the same plane as president biden. >> i think that's right, geoff. i was struck by something putin said about biden, which is that he's a more predictable leader. he opponented out that he thought biden was a different kind of american president than donald trump had been. and that he understood biden. he knew biden, of course, before he was elected presidenter president. but he saw what was coming. the white how was very clear going into this stumt, what president biden was hoping to accomplish and what he would say to president putin and there should have been no surprise on the part of the russians. that's an entirely different dynamic that we have between these two countries than we did when trump was the president, where he would govern in foreign affairs as well as in domestic affairs on impulse and by

surprising his allies and his adversaries alike. and that speaks to, i think, a lot of what the american people are looking for and admire so far in biden, that there's this restoration of some normacy in relations here and around the world. to that end this was probably a good summit to the president as he returns home. >> hallie, 15 seconds. >> one thing that president biden said was when was the last time two leaders sat in the room two hours. >> yeah. >> donald trump and vladimir putin in 2018. >> good point. >> that will do it for me today. ayman mohyeldin picks up our coverage in washington, d.c., coming up next. our coverage in washington, d.c., coming up next or necessity. we can explore uncharted waters, and not only make new discoveries, but get there faster, with better outcomes. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change-- meeting them where they are,

and getting them where they want to be. faster. vmware. welcome change. wondering what actually goes into your multivitamin? at new chapter, its' innovation, organic ingredients, and fermentation. fermentation? yes. formulated to help you body really truly absorb the natural goodness. new chapter. wellness, well done. i'm evie's best camper badge. but even i'm not as memorable as eating turkey hill chocolate chip cookie dough creamy premium ice cream and chasing fireflies. don't worry about me. i'm fine. you can't beat turkey hill memories.

good afternoon, everyone. i'm ayman mohyeldin in washington, d.c. president biden is heading home after his first