point. i think this was a successful overseas trip but you've got to hit the ground running. there's a lot of pressure on infrastructure and he faces a very uncertain future. he has to immediately pivot back to issues at home. >> he does have to pivot. i think this summer will be the setup. people need to get ready for a very, very busy fall on capitol hill. i think they're going to be racing towards the finish line. >> they're going to have to because they might not have power in six months. >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle live from msnbc headquarters here in new york city. it is thursday, june 17th. let's get smarter. this morning, that massive, historic summit is on the books. president biden back at the white house and the ball is squarely in vladimir putin's court. both the russian leader and

president biden described their meeting in geneva as constructive. but for the most part the summit's outcome was more about keeping the conversation going as opposed to any tangible progress right now. and as the president said it, it will now be up to russia to determine where we go from here. >> what is going to happen next is we're going to be able to look back, look ahead in three to six months and say did the things we agree to sit down and try to work out, did it work? i don't say i trust you, no problem. let's see what happens. you know, as that ole expression goes, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. >> i want to bring in nbc's josh lederman at the white house, chris hill, and glenn johnson, politics editor for axios and former state department senior advisor. his book "window seat on the world" is about his time with secretary of state john kerry and attending meetings like

yesterday's summit in geneva. josh, to you first. the president says let's wait and see. what does he mean by that? how does the white house measure what putin does? >> a lot of this will be about seeing what russia doesn't do. so much of this summit was president biden laying down these red lines that president putin dare not cross. so in the coming days and weeks, white house officials will be looking to see whether russia in fact does cross those red lines. does russia conduct or permit cyberattacks that breach one of those 16 areas that president biden said have to be off limits in this escalating cyber war. does russia continue with military incursions into ukraine? does russia allow alexei navalny die in prison. in the past putin has a long

history of testing american leaders, push, push, pushing to see how far he can push until they push back. in the coming weeks the white house will be aided by the fact there will be increased diplomatic contacts between the two countries with both returns ambassadors to each other's capitals as well as working groups they agreed to establish on cybersecurity as well as arms control. >> yes, we're the superpower, ambassador, and putin with his teeny weeny economy, he's the one who tests our presidents over and over. all we really got yesterday was an agreement to keep talking on weapons, on cyber, on ukraine. do you see them having offered up anything concrete? what's really different today than a week ago besides all the attention we just gave putin? >> first of all, i think we had a very self-confident president who knows his brief, which is a change for us in recent years. go in there and make very clear to putin what our positions are. there was not going to be a

moment yesterday where putin hits the side of his head and says, oh, now i understand what you're talking about, i'll straighten my ways. but i think it was very important for the president of the united states, first of all, to be willing to meet with anybody. this concept that he shouldn't meet with him because he gives him more prestige. i understand that's part of any calculation but he did the right thing in meeting him and i think he did the right thing laying out what the rules of the road are going to be and the basis of this relationship is going to be. so indeed the ball is in putin's court and we have to see what he does with it. i think we need to remember that putin really needs a better relationship with us than we need with this middling, failing power. >> glenn, i want to focus on the red lines. president biden seemed to be most explicit when it comes to the attacks we're seeing all the time, cyberattacks. he laid out 16 specific areas that he said are off limits. while he didn't issue specific threats, he did say this.

>> for example, when i talked about the pipeline, that cyber hit for $5 million, that ransomware hit in the united states, i looked at him and said, well, how would you feel if ransomware took on the pipelines from your oil fields? he said it would matter. this is not about just our self-interests. it's about a mutual self-interest. >> glenn, that's threatish. what's your take? >> i mean if you listen to them yesterday, they both talk at several different points about the respective country's nuclear capabilities. vladimir putin bragged at one point about how they have the largest nuclear navy in the world but that's really off the table. what is on the table and where russia has asymmetric power is through cyber hacking and ransomware. obviously the administration is quite aware of that. so for quite some time now i've been wondering why they haven't shut the lights off in moscow to respond to some of this. it's pretty clear that president

biden said yesterday that kind of thing is on the table if this persists. it was interesting they even gave him a road map of what we deem to be our most critical infrastructure that they shouldn't touch. and so putin is very clearly warned here that if this continues, there will be consequences. >> so, glenn, what do you think our next move is and his next move? >> well, for the president this was very much in joe biden's fashion. if you look at the way he's talked up on capitol hill, he's tried to give the bipartisan infrastructure plan and negotiators some room. just the same way here with putin. he's almost letting his opponents dictate the terms that they want to engage with him on. he went over there to geneva. he gave putin a meeting that elevated him to appear on the world stage. but he's going to let putin decide from here on how they're going to interact going forward. is it going to be adversarial or could they work on areas of common ground despite some of

the disagreements they continue to have. >> ambassador hill, one of the things that did happen yesterday is that the u.s. ambassador to russia and the russian ambassador to the u.s. were put back in their posts. that matters to you. help us understand why that's a big deal. is it just symbolic or really practical? >> it's both. i think it can be practical if putin allows you are ambassador to talk to people. in the past he sometimes kind of cut off our embassies. but i think it will facilitate or could facilitate the communications we need to get back on track on some agenda of mutual interests. it doesn't address the fundamental question of how putin is going to behave in the coming weeks and months, and will he understand what the price of kind of getting in from the cold will be. i think we had a president who really looked confident and he feels he's in a better position than putin is. by the way, when it comes to

cyberattacks, i think you had it right there, it was threatish. it definitely was. >> ambassador chris hill, glenn, josh, thank you all so much. we're going to leave it there. we have a lot more to cover because back here this morning, now 11 republican senators say they support the infrastructure plan that was put forth by a bipartisan group. the main area of agreement, no tax hikes. the challenge, convincing more of their fellow democratic and republican colleagues to get onboard and not to mention, of course, the white house. joining us now is sahil kapur and eugene daniels. sahil, 11 republicans is significant, but is it 11 republicans in the door and you risk 12 democrats going out the back door? is this enough to get things actually passed? >> stephanie, the answer is maybe -- >> maybe is not a no. >> it's not a no. it is a significant step. 11 republicans mean they have a concept. they have a price tag.

they have to translate that to policy and legislation. with 11 republicans onboard, that would be significant. 10 or 11 republicans does not mean 49 or 50 democrats. they have to get democrats on board and there are a number of progressives drawing a line in the sand saying if there are no actions on climate change, for instance, they will not be in support of it. ron wyden said he's not in support of user fees which he calls a tax hike on the working class. so there's a long way to go here, but this does signal a sense of urgency with republicans after democrats threatened to kick it into gear and go it alone without republicans. >> eugene, progressives will be a lot harder to convince than the president. what is the reaction you think we'll be getting from the white house? >> right now the white house is -- biden was in europe and dealing with putin, so when he got back, he's going to be briefed today even more on what this framework looks like. but, you know, this is -- like

was just said actually, biden does want and has wanted to give them space to do what they want to do. but at the end of the day it is going to be his choice, right? this is probably as good a framework for any kind of bill as the white house can expect to get that's bipartisan at this point. especially you have 11 republicans. but you're right. the white house is also worried about progressives who have been attacking manchin, attacking sinema and attacking these bipartisan negotiations kind of saying it's not helpful. they told us it is not appropriate. so they are cognizant there is a lot of infighting and more infighting happening right now and that is where their head is at. they want this bipartisan deal and they keep having to remind progressives that, hey, we're not just doing -- we don't want to do the bipartisan deal, we want to do this two track. we want to do a bipartisan deal and something that's bigger through reconciliation but we can only do that if we get this

bipartisan deal. biden doesn't want to go down as the guy who only got things through reconciliation. he does have that oath senate mentality of getting some compromise on things. >> if they go it alone, the senate parliamentarian can step in and say a whole lot of things don't count as infrastructure and they are starting from square one. on the bipartisan front, i do want to talk about joe manchin. he is back out with new demands around voting rights legislation. many people think he doesn't want to do anything around voting rights. he didn't support the for the people act but he still wants to get something done here. >> that's right. manchin made some important news when he opened the door by shifting his position a little bit saying it's not just about him wanting bipartisanship. he's talking about things like making election day a national holiday. 15 days of guaranteed early voting in all 50 states. these are provisions that

democrats like and can get behind. there are other things he put in the document like voter i.d. documents that democrats do not support. so there's still going to have to be quite a bit of negotiation but bottom line, this opens the door for democratic senators to win over joe manchin's crucial 50th vote in terms of a path forward ahead of a vote next week. if they do get 50 votes, the bigger ball game is the filibuster. they have to find a way around that 60 votes because republicans are not interested in this concept. either way, getting 50 votes is much, much better for democrats than getting 49 because then the narrative becomes democrats are on the same page doing something and it makes it more difficult for republicans to memo against them. >> i think that the aides we talk to, they say they have a good relationship with him, they talk to him and his aides often.

so as much hate as he gets from progressives and other democrats, they don't feel that way. they don't -- the white house doesn't see him as this terrible foil because i think i've said this on your show before, steph. he is a proxy for other moderate democrats who also feel this way about a lot of these issues, that feel this way about the filibuster, who feel this way and have issues with hr-1 and s-1 as a bill. so they know he is getting a lot of the ire but it isn't the only person that disagrees with them on a lot of these issues. worry about how much activists attack joe manchin because if joe manchin flips and becomes a republican, which is something that has been said to me by some aides, a little teensy bit of concern they have there is they really find ways to negotiate and compromise with him because this is a white house that wants to get things done.

if you want 50 democrats, that is the narrative they want, that republicans are stopping things, that it's the democratic party is not in disarray this time around and moving forward. >> by the way, just a couple of minutes ago while we were on air, stacey abrams said she would support what joe manchin has proposed. yeah, i guess there's the risk that joe manchin would flip and become a republican. or the bigger risk, joe manchin would go with a very progressive agenda and risk losing his seat in a very, very red state and then you're not going to get a joe manchin, you'll get someone far, far, far more conservative. sahil, eugene, thank you very much. coming up next, the police officers who responded to the january 6 insurrection likely saved hundreds and hundreds of lives and of course risked their own lives. so why in the world did 21 lawmakers whose lives those

officers may have saved, why did they just vote against recognizing them, honoring them for stepping up so courageously that day? later, she was fired from her post as a police commander for one reason, for being gay. so she ran against the man who fired her and she won to become ohio's first lesbian sheriff. she's going to be here live. her. . thousands of engineers taking peak per to a new level. that's why in parts of many major cities where people can use massive capacity we added verizon 5g ultra wideband, the fastest 5g in the world. it isn't just a step forward, it's a leap forward. because the more you do with 5g, the more your network matters. it's us pushing us. it's verizon vs verizon. and who wins? you. ♪ ♪ when technology is easier to use...

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this is all about patriotism. on a day when the house voted overwhelmingly to award the congressional medal to police officers who responded to the january 6th insurrection, 21 house republicans voted against it. here's a list of those 21 republicans who i'm pretty sure call themselves law and order lawmakers. it includes paul gosar who claimed that the protester ashley babbitt, he said she was assassinated. andrew clyde downplayed the insurrection by comparing it to a normal tourist visit. but when clyde came face-to-face with one of the officers beaten by that mob, officer michael fanone, the congressman had some trouble making that case. >> i, you know, greeted congressman clyde. i was very cordial. i extended my hand to shake his hand. he just stared at me. i asked him if he was going to

shake my hand and he told me he didn't know who i was. so i introduced myself. at that point the congressman turned away from me, pulled out his cell phone. it looked like he was attempting to pull up like an audio recording app on his phone and, again, like never acknowledged me at any point. as soon as the elevator doors opened, he ran as quickly as he could, like a coward. >> ran like a coward when speaking to that officer, that father of four daughters. i want to bring in democratic congressman mikie sherrill from the state of new jersey. she's also a military veteran and a member of the armed services committee. thank you so much for being here. i know 21 republicans is a tiny number compared to the nearly 200 who voted for the gold medal. but this small pool of republicans, they seem to be made up of the loudest voices and they have a lot of influence when it comes to media attention. but i want to understand from you, what kind of influence do these 21 people have within

their own party? you work with republicans day after day. who is that party? >> well, stephanie, that's a really good question because let's take a step back. let's take this out of politics and sound bites and just for a moment remember that we were voting on a congressional members of the capitol police who put their own lives on the line in, some cases gave their lives to protect the capitol on january 6th. those same members of congress, 21 of them, could not bring themselves to vote to simply honor that heroism. so it's incredibly upsetting. then when you say who speaks for the republican party? well, i'll turn that around a little because basically there was an independent bipartisan commission on what led up to

january 6th and how we can ensure that never happens again, and only 35 members of the republican party voted in favor of that. so it's really troubling to see that again and again and again republicans in congress don't seem to be able to come to terms with what happened on january 6th and seem to want to put out misinformation on it and cover it up. >> but could that be because they risk information coming out that could involve them? you've been asking questions for months about fellow lawmakers of yours in the days leading up to january 6th. they may have been giving tours, road maps to who then became insurrectionists. have you gotten any more information on that and speaker pelosi's interest in pursuing an investigation, with or without republicans? >> well, we've certainly seen more and more information coming out, more arrests seen online something very concerning to me

diagrams of the tunnels in the capitol complex. and so we've seen the investigation, the ongoing investigation bring to light more and more things. but really what we have to have is an independent bipartisan commission. or if we can't get that, something in the house of representatives where we have subpoena power to make sure we can get to the bottom of what happened and have a broad investigation of what led to january 6th and then ensure it doesn't happen again. i think it's really critical. and i will say this is a time for courage. this is a time for courage if you're an elected member who's taken an oath to the constitution, as we all have, to stand up for the values of this country and to make sure that we can create a more resilient democracy going forward. >> i want to ask you about russia. you are an expert. many people are saying it was a constructive meeting between putin and biden.

but putin justified the crackdown on his political critic, alexei navalny, by pointing to what happened here on january 6th. comparing navalny to people who broke into the capitol and some who urinated on lawmakers' desks. given that comparison, do you think that vladimir putin is changing his behavior in any way, shape or form or it's just the case of his punting and playing what aboutism. >> i've said it before and i think i may have even said it on your show, putin understands power politics. this is -- you know, i don't think anyone expected him to go into this meeting and come out a strong supporter of democracy and democratic values and all of the things we in the united states deeply believe in and fight for. what we needed putin to understand after this meeting was that we weren't going to go forward as we have over the last four years. it's unacceptable to have russia

interfering in our elections. it's unacceptable for russia to support a cyber hack like the solarwinds hack. it's unacceptable that ransomware attacks are coming out of russia and they need to address that. so this meeting was about sort of laying down the lines that we expect russia to ensure that they won't cross and there will be penalties if they do cross them. resetting expectations, if you will, which i think was so critical and important. i think that's what the meeting was about and i think biden accomplished that and did that very, very well. >> and you think it was the right forum? some argue why give vladimir putin that powerful stage. when he's on that stage, it looks as though he is joe biden's peer. russia's economy is teeny tiny. it's smaller than italy's. but the threat, the threat they can pose to the u.s. is huge

from a nuclear standpoint but specifically through cyber warfare. so is this summit about giving him a big stage or should we find another way to simply acknowledge how dangerous he can be? >> i actually thought the biden administration did this very well also. i really like the dynamic of the g-7, the week leading up to it. with biden reasserting our strong alliances that we've had over the last century with so many of our democratic al lies. reasserting the strength of that. we saw pictures all week of him with the leaders of our major democracies and moving throughout the week in i think a very important way and strengthening those ties. and then at the end of that, sitting down with putin to lay out our expectations. i thought that dynamic was very good. >> congresswoman, thank you for joining me this morning.

i appreciate it. coming up, reports that are infuriating people across the country showing that some of the richest americans and biggest corporations pay less taxes than you do. less federal taxes. but here's the especially galling thing. they do it legally. our next guest says he has the solution. well, great, he can give it to our lawmakers, they're the one in charge. former treasury secretary jack lew joins us right after the break. it's solution time. ight after te break. it's solution time ♪ you come and go ♪ ♪ you come and go-o-o ♪ ♪ loving would be easy if your colors were like my dreams ♪ ♪ red, gold -- ♪ [ tires screech ] [ crickets chirping ] for those who were born to ride there's progressive. with 24/7 roadside assistance. ♪ karma-karma-karma-karma-karma chameleon... ♪ try one a day 50+ multivitamin gummies. with vitamins c, d & zinc for immunity support.

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as president biden tries to push his agenda on infrastructure, the answer whenever he's asked how to pay for it is always the same. have the rich pay their fair share. and one could say, great, that's up to the lawmakers. an argument made much stronger after that bombshell report from propublica showing how little the richest americans are paying. we already knew about corporate america. it's not just about the rich using loopholes. every single year hundreds of billions of dollars are not collected simply from lack of enforcement. my next guest is one of the five former treasury secretaries who says they know how to stop this massive problem. jack lew served as treasury secretary in the obama administration. secretary, thank you for joining me. you say there is a solution to this. what is it? >> it's good to be with you, stephanie. you know, the reality is that if you don't audit taxes, if you don't have enforcement resources, you don't have any

cops on the beat. for the last 25 years we've seen that the amount of resources available for tax enforcement has dropped by 50%. it was a big issue in dealing with congress over these years. we couldn't get the money appropriated. and we knew we were losing a lot of revenue. under current law we're losing about $7 trillion over ten years because people aren't paying, firms aren't paying what's required. if you put a few small numbers on it, there are 4 million partnership tax returns. 140 a year are audited. that doesn't mean everyone is cheating. it doesn't mean that this is anything other than saying everyone needs to follow the same rules. i've always believed that before you talk about any new revenues, you have to make sure people pay the taxes that are due under current law. and the simple logic of hiring people, training people, and having the oversight is just

overwhelming, which is what the five of us argue in that column. >> but then why would we ever have allowed this to happen? for every dollar collected, you get $6 in return. this thing more than pays for itself. i'm talking about the irs. so why would we ever have cut even one single staff member? if you look over the last ten years, they have cut about 20%. who on earth said, well, that's a good idea. >> well, i agree 100% with you, stephanie. i made that case to our congress when i was in the treasury department and when i was in the office of management and budget in two administrations. what we've seen over the years is that defunding the irs became something that was seen as an accomplishment for some in congress. i think right now you're seeing more bipartisan focus on having the irs funded with the resources to do its job. i think this is a very important

moment. there are major proposals out there to change our tax laws. many of which i support and think are the right way to increase revenues. but the truth of the matter is if we don't have a tax enforcement system that works, money leaks out of it and it will continue to. so this is something we need to do, whatever your views on new tax proposals. and i think it's one of the reasons why the five of us who don't agree on all of the proposals to raise new revenues agree 100% on this idea about tax enforcement. >> i would guess that most americans would say simply enforce what's on the books. that's how you address the tax gap. let's talk about loopholes for a moment because that propublica report has people across this country furious when you see the names of individuals that are paying almost nothing, corporations paying nothing. can you help me understand why do these loopholes exist? because the truth is, and i'm not defending elon musk.

it's not necessarily elon musk's fault or amazon's fault. they're legally not paying taxes. it's lawmakers' faults. >> i agree with that too, stephanie. that's one of the reasons why a number of the tax proposals that are currently pending make good sense even if you weren't looking to raise money to pay for a investment -- >> who is calling you on the phone. don't they know you're on telephone? >> it's the one phone in my house that you can't turn off and unfortunately it's right here. >> when you're done, i'd like you to call that person and ask them to watch my show every day at 9:00 a.m. and that would never happen. okay, go back to these loopholes. you've got to look at the lawmakers, not the companies or the individuals. >> yeah, no, i think that our tax laws are riddled with legal ways to avoid taxes. you know, industries have been given the ability to structure

their finances to carry losses over, to pay taxes at low rates. the answer to that is changing tax policy. i think if you look at a lot of the proposals that are out there, they would go a long way towards doing that. i do think you have to have a sharp distinction between people who are paying low taxes because the tax laws are broken and people who are not paying taxes because they're cheating. >> those are two different things. >> people who are making mistakes or cheating, tax reform gets a change in the tax laws. we need to do both. >> those are two very different things. do you actually think we're going to get that tax reform? you could talk to people across the country who care nothing about politics and they would agree they want corporations to pay more, they want the super rich to pay more. but when you talk about certain industries and what they can carry over, that makes me think commercial real estate, that makes me think private equity. those are industries that don't have a lot of employees and voters but they give enormous

amounts of money to lawmakers. is there actually the political will to close these egregious loopholes? >> my view on these issues was the same when i was in government as it is now. we have to close a lot of these loopholes. we have to have a tax system that raises money where it's earned. i think the environment right now is as good as it gets to get something significant done. first, there's a sense of unfairness in the way the economy distributes income and wealth that is deep. secondly, there's a moment in time when there's a president and a congress of the same party able to work together. third, there's an ambitious investment agenda where the amount of ambition you have to invest in a world where you have to pay for the investments is limited by what you're able to raise. now, i think if you look at what the biden administration has

proposed, if you get a big chunk of it enacted, it doesn't all have to be enacted to be of generational significance in terms of making the tax code more fair and in terms of investing in a future economy that works better for all americans. so i think it's a moment when a lot can be done. i never thought it all would happen. it's a very ambitious program. but i think those who are saying if you get a big chunk of it done, you failed, are making a mistake. if you get a big chunk of it done, that's an enormous accomplishment. >> secretary lew, thank you for joining us. a reminder to our audience that $80 billion in the infrastructure plan, that's probably the smallest line item and it will have the biggest return on investment. $80 billion for the irs to be able to do their jobs. breaking right now on capitol hill, speaker pelosi, congressman clyburn and members of the congressional black caucus are marking the passage of a bill to make juneteenth a

national holiday. it honors the end of slavery in the united states and is already celebrated in a number of states. yesterday the house passed the measure with support from 415 members and 14 republicans voting against it. coming up next, it heads to the president's desk for signature. geoff bennett is at the white house. geoff, i'm pretty sure it's going to get that signature. >> reporter: oh, yeah. that's a good bet to make, steph. president biden is expected to sign this bill at 3:30 eastern. if we can put the shot back up on the screen of the enrollment ceremony over at the hill, that is a big deal, steph, to paraphrase president biden. you saw there house speaker nancy pelosi standing there in the center and it sounds like they're playing a spiritual in the background. oh, no, it's the black national anthem they're singing. you see congressman sheila jackson lee of texas. she has been the lead co-sponsor

of this bill. forgive me for speaking over the black national anthem as they're singing it there in the room, but we should make clear that juneteenth is a celebration of what happened back on june 19th, 1865. it was the day that a union army general arrived in galveston, texas, and informed all of the enslaved african-americans there that they were free. a lot of people think that slavery ended after the civil war. it really didn't. it really depended on the advance of union troops to enforce it. it took two years for folks in texas to find out that slaves were essentially free. this was two years after lincoln signed the emancipation proclamation. so the year after that you had texas freed men celebrating june 19th. over time it became known as juneteenth. this bill that passed in the house, even though 14 republicans voted against it, today, you see congressman clyburn, the whip of the house speaking there and behind him is

congressman ilhan omar and al green and house speaker nancy pelosi and carolyn maloney. once this is all said and done, that bill will make its way over here and president biden will sign it. if not this year, perhaps next year it will be an official federal holiday, steph. >> history right before our eyes, gives you the chills. geoff bennett, thank you. revealing new details today of the final weeks of donald trump's presidency, including newly released emails that show he and his allies repeatedly pressured the justice department to investigate absolutely false claims of widespread 2020 election fraud. "the washington post" quoting then acting attorney general, jeffrey rosen's deputy describing the fiasco as pure insanity. joining us now ken dilanian and harry litman, former u.s. attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general during the clinton administration. ken, what new details are you learning because that pure

insanity isn't actually a thing of the past. former president trump and his allies are still pushing this nonsense. >> good morning, stephanie. the picture painted by these newly released documents is one of a president and his supporters trying everything they could to get the justice department to launch an investigation into their bogus claims of election fraud, an investigation they could then have cited as a way to delay or stop the transfer of power to a duly elected joe biden. the good news is that it didn't work. emails and other public records show attorney general bill barr and acting a.g. jeffrey rosen wanted nothing to do with what they realized were baseless claims but it does show how close this country came to a real disaster. one of the details that stood out was how the president's chief of staff, mark meadows, shared with acting attorney general rosen a link to a youtube video na described a bonkers scenario alleging that italian military satellites were used to steal the election from president trump. rosen's deputy, as you mentioned, called it pure insanity. but the most alarming moment

actually came when trump seriously contemplated firing rosen and replacing him with another doj lawyer more sympathetic to the election claims. it was made clear to the president that top doj lawyers would resign en masse if that happened and trump backed off. one official summed it up this way. it sounds like rosen and the cause of justice won, steph. >> another attorney who was more sympathetic to trump's agenda or more willing to push this extraordinary lie. harry, what's your reaction to all this? >> yeah, so -- and by the way, trump was going to install him as attorney general and let everything roll from there. you're getting it from me but from all doj alum this kind of mind-boggling reaction. this really does both sort of encapsulate everything that went on in the last four years and take it a step further. a direct communication from the president to the department, impossible, can't be. actually about a pending case,

third rail, can't be. but as ken said, the biggest point here, they are trying to force the department to say the earth is flat and dragons dwell on it. stand up to the court and just lie, a whole tissue of lies that have already been discredited in other courts. that is so much against the dna of the department of justice. and it might have happened had there been the kind of coup that trump was wanting to see. so this really is a bridge even farther than we've seen, but also one that kind of wraps everything up and takes it an extra step from all the kinds of parade of horribles of the trump years. >> well, then it's about time to finally blow our nose with that tissue and throw it in the garbage because that's what that argument is. ken, i have to ask you about this "new york times" reporting saying that one of trump's former executives, allen weisselberg, could face charges soon.

let's remind our audience, not just an executive, the cfo. trump organization. he didn't just work for trump, he worked for his father for decades and decades. if someone were to know where the proverbial bodies were buried, he's the guy with the shovel. >> that's right. "the new york times" reports that a federal grand jury appears to be scrutinizing the actions of weisselberg who, as you said, knows more than anyone about the inner workings of the trump organization. "the times" said the grand jury recently questioned one of weisselberg's top aides. prosecutors previously subpoenaed the records of a manhattan private school seeking information on payments the trump organization made to one of weisselberg's grandchildren. obviously it's to squeeze him to cooperate and say what he knows about potentially illegal behavior by the trump organization or by trump himself. the water is getting hotter. >> weisselberg, will he put his family or trump first. harry, what could this mean for the former president? >> it's a state grand jury but

it could mean that they are getting to the point now where they're telling weisselberg, look, we're not fooling around. we will indict you and take down the trump organization through you. we don't have to get trump, at least in the first instance. so it's really maximizing the pressure on him and they kind of have to do it if they want a timeline that ends at the end of the year, which is when vance, the d.a., steps down. >> all right. harry litman, ken dilanian, thank you so much. you need to stay here for this next story. coming up, more than 100 bills in 30 states are targeting the rights of transgender kids and teens. we're going to hear the desperate pleas from those very kids and their parents, next. >> take me back to a time before i really came out, you know. it was -- it was really depressing and things just didn't seem worth it anymore. i hate cartridges.

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with more than 100 anti-trans bills introduced in over 30 different states this year alone. my friend and colleague joe fryer talked to four families that are challenging arkansas' ban on gender-affirming care for trans kids. he joins me now in person. i was already warned by management not to hold your hand so i'm just going to say, joe, great to see you. but talk to me about these families. their children were already going through treatment. what happens when the laws change in the middle of that? >> basically they have two options, neither of which are great options. one is that you stop that treatment that you've already started or in the case of one of these plaintiffs, it's a 9-year-old girl. the family was looking ahead to getting that treatment down the road or you move away. >> oh, let me just pick up my family and move to another state? >> exactly. that's why they filed this lawsuit. this law passed earlier this year in arkansas. it basically bans

gender-affirming care for trans minors. this is care that experts say improves the mental health of trans kids who are far more likely to experience anxiety and depressed. the american medical association said this bill was vetoed it. they overrode it. we spoke with some of the families filing this lawsuit to get their perspective on it. take a listen. >> it certainly boosted my, i guess, mood morale. it's given me an outlook on life that, yeah, it's worth it. i can be who i want to be and not have to, you know, have to hide anymore. it allows me to feel truly like how i want to feel. >> and what happens, do you fear, if you lose that care? >> i mean it would -- it would take me back to a time before i really came out, you know. it was really depressing and

things just didn't seem worth it anymore. >> show of hands, who would consider moving out of arkansas if this law does go into effect? >> joe, i remember when president obama left office, criticism that he was putting too much focus, too much attention on transgender rights. fast forward. on the other hand, republicans in 30 states seem to be putting more focus on them, but it's on the other side. outwardly anti-trans bills. >> one of the families raised their hands and said, if we have to move, that's not easy. you're moving away from your business, maybe grandparents. and she said, what if i go to a state and they pass a bill like this? >> then would the equality act on a federal level protect against this? i'm almost trying to compare it to the voting rights act, which could protect us from a lot of things happening state by state.

>> it's federal protection if it's passed. it's passed in the house. the question is can it pass in the senate? it still needs ten republicans to override the filibuster. even susan collins who was in favor of the equality act has not thrown her view behind it this time. >> we'll stay on it this hour. joe, i appreciate you covering it for us. you can watch joe's special reporting tonight. "trans america." we're celebrating people breaking barriers in lgbtq community. our next guest dealt with years of workplace harassment over her sexual orientation, and she was targeted by cops outside a gay

bar. she is a cop herself and she says she was fired for the sole reason that she was gay. but now guess what? she is the sheriff. joining me now, the first lesbian ever elected sheriff in the state of ohio, it is an honor to have you here. you call the shots now. how does it feel to be the top cop? how did it feel to beat the person who fired you? >> good morning, stephanie, and it feels great. it feels very hopeful. it lets me know that all of the things that i did, all the things i adored were worth it, and i'm making great changes and great strides in this department to include diversity, and it's working very well. >> when this headline crossed, i was so happy you were joining us. the new york city p.r.i.d.e. parade banned cops from

attending. that's next weekend. as an officer who has been harassed by other police officers, what do you make of this move? >> well, i certainly don't believe we should take it personally. i think it's a statement. and i think it's a statement that says, you know, we have in the past been treated badly by the police as lgbtq community, and i don't think we should stay there. i think the conversation should move forward from there, but don't take it personally. it's a statement. i think it's well warranted. certainly i was targeted leaving a gay bar, and that's when i was outed in my career. it did have great ramifications for me. you know, i think people should be free to express how they feel about the police. >> but help us understand the dangers because one could argue shouldn't the statement be all about inclusion? this is about exclusion, but does it need to be because

people are really at risk. >> that's just it. we need to bring the public's conscience to what this really is and how it affects the gay community on a personal level. the fact that we want to make that statement, that people want to make that statement, i think, is -- i think that's very valid, and i do, as i said, believe we should move forward with the conversation. you know, it shouldn't stay here. i don't expect next year to be excluded from a parade because i think you're going to see that we're getting the message. people across the nation, police agencies across the nation and certainly this police agency is getting the message. >> what is your message to people who might be afraid to come out, especially if they work in aggressive industries? law enforcement is not an easy place to do that. >> it is not an easy place to do that. there are great perils, certainly sometimes even to your own physical safety in this

business. i mean, we rely on other officers to help us in difficult situations, so we all have to cooperate and get along, but if you are struggling with your identity in an organization, you know, that's a personal choice for you. i know that when the choice was made for me that i had to come out in this organization, i had to face it. i had to embrace it. i knew if i didn't embrace it and it didn't become part of me at the moment, i wasn't going to survive. >> wasn't going to survive. thank you, sheriff. honored to meet you. thrilled to see you at that post. that wraps up this very busy hour. i'm stephanie ruhle. my friend hallie jackson picks up breaking news on the other side of the break as we await crucial decisions from the supreme court set to be announced any minute. don't go anywhere. announced any minute don't go anywhere.

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president biden waking up in washington this morning with no watershed moment, not many deliverables, maybe signs of progress, and red lines drawn. the big question now, will vladimir putin cross them, and what's next if he does? plus, new reaction this morning to that historic summit coming in to washington from .