hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. i'm claire mccaskill for niccole wallace. call it the great unravelinging. all those lies. at the very heart of the disinformation campaign about january 6, systemically dismantled by new revelations from the justice department beginning today with the release of video that sheds light on an instance of violence and brutality against our first responder just the video we are about to play released at the request of nbc news and other organizations shows a man the justice department identifies as marine veteran and retired nypd

officer thomas webster who is facing several federal charges including assaulting police, unlawfully entering capitol ground with a dangerous weapon and civil disorder. you'll see webster in red carrying a flagpole and this video is disturbing. >> [ bleep ]! [ bleep ]! >> hey! hey! >> [ bleep ]! [ bleep ]! >> get over! >> [ bleep ]! >> no, no, no! stop! stop! >> okay, ron johnson and others, for months you guys accused the

left of hysteria over claims that what happened on january 6 was dangerous. and that protesters weren't armed. now more proof that the right continues to lie about what actually happened. another one of their arguments is handicapped overnight. the justice department is charged a january 6 defendant, 48-year-old guy wesley with bringing firearms to the capitol which our own scott mcfarland described as a tough break for the not an armed insurrection crowd. that's the late ers evidence emerged in the last 24 hours. in today's "the washington post" there's the case that the longstanding attempt by the right to reshape the history of a january 6 riot has collapsed. point by point. because of the basic truths we can see with our eyes and hear

with our ears. bump calls the tourist argument made popular for congressman clyde that compared it to a quote normal tourist visit. a claim instantly fact checked with hours of video, much made public in president trump's second impeachment showcasing violence and vandalism. more than 100 have been charged with assault or other serious crimes. then there's the quote not trump supporters argument. debunked by the sea of maga hats and trump flagging photographed in the mob. and of course, this infamous declaration from one rioter. >> we were invited here! we were invited! hey, we were invited here! >> they swore an oath. >> meeting to you can -- >> they're meeting so you can -- >> we were invited by the

president of the united states! >> the lies are so obvious that they're almost laughable. but bump describes them as the very underpinnings of a gop's opposition to a 9/11-style commission writing more than anything, a formal, bipartisan investigation of the capitol attack risks cementing as fact what we saw that day as how we understood it. and if that is cemented as fact it will be much harder to convince people that the reality was something different. the collapse of the gop's alternate reality on january 6 is where we start today. here at the table, my friend reverend al sharpton host of "politics nation." also with us, phillip bump issue national correspondent with "the washington post" and legal analyst andrew weissman. a former senior doj official,

lead prosecutor for the mueller special counsel. phillip, your piece, i thought it was interesting how you began with a tweet made by david graham, the atlantic's david graham on january 6. saying, remember what today was like. someone might try to convince you it was different very soon. talk about your article and how you go through the various ways that the republican party is trying to convince us that we didn't see what we all saw. why that is so important when you talk about this bipartisan commission that they're refusing to make happen. >> we had seen that begin even by the time of graham's tweet. by that evening we were seeing people claim based on an erroneous news report in

"washington times" that antifa was at the capitol and wasn't the case. we saw in the how shalls after it occurred an attempt to reframe what happened that day. the pattern of the right of cherry picking details to create from that is something we have seen week after week since january 6 that individuals picked out of the crowd or isolated shots from television cameras that are presented as the real story when in fact the real story is, of course, what we observed that day. what graham suggests that we all remember that there was this huge force of people, large enough that it actually allowed the capitol to be overrun, capitol police and metropolitan police pushed back and all people there because donald trump told them to be there on that day because he lied about the results of the election.

it's obvious and to try to step away from culpability from trump and for people that echo the lies of election fraud you need an al ter gnat scenario but it collapses. >> thank you for being here and holding my hand for sitting in this chair. it is a little nerve-racking. talk about the hypocrisy. you're someone who has been at the front lines talking about police reform for decades. and invariably there is the republican party that's said, yeah, they can do no wrong. police departments can do no wrong. what is going on when you see that officers brutalized like that and then this congressman refusing to shake the hand of one of those police officers that was attacked that day. what is going on with the republican party and their

support of law enforcement vis-a-vis what happened on january 6. >> no one needs to hold your hand at anything you do but putting that aside, i really think we've got to deal with not only did we see a policeman viciously attacked and assaulted it was done by a former policeman in the tape that we just showed. a former nypd officer. that doesn't make all policemen bad or violent but it does mean that people are not exaggerating when they become -- come forward and say that there are police that have gone above and beyond the line of the law. then to deny it and then then to have the hostility. a congressman won't shake a policeman's hand. a capitol policeman's hand. because he stated a truth. we have to ask what is the motivation here. donald trump's motivation was to try to stop the certification of

election which in itself is a betrayal but what is motivating these members of congress where they don't want to have a commission? what is the motivation of those that would act as though this was some kind of tourist when people were assaulted there to protect their lives. people may make a lot of excuses but when you were in the building and could have been harmed, people hunting don the vice president of the united states of your party you have to ask what kind of motivation would bring you that far and what is the appropriate way to punish those people. >> the piece that you wrote about christopher wray's very unsatisfying answers to questions at the hearing underscores kind of the theme we are talking about here and that is why the commission is

necessary. you talk about the questions that are unanswered that wray really studiously avoided even trying to answer. what are those questions that we need to know that a commission could get to the bottom of? why is it important that actually continue to beat this drum for this bipartisan commission? >> great question. it's lovely to be here on your initial foray. >> thank you, andrew. >> these are really important questions. the reason it was so disheartening is christopher wray is part of this administration. he's no longer part of the trump administration and so now what he does reflects on the current administration. every american including me is entitled to know what did the fbi and other agencies know prior to january 6. in other words, did they have sufficient intelligence or was there a gap? in other words, was there more

that they should have done to get intelligence? did they act on the information that they did have if they didn't act the question's why didn't they act on that? finally how do you compare what happened january 6 in terms of preparation and responsiveness to the clear preparations and responsiveness to the black lives matter movement protests from the summer before where people were arrested the same day. and if there is that difference then the question is, what caused it? is it race? is it politics? a combination? and christopher wray did not answer any of those questions to i think the chagrin of numerous people in congress. that he was testifying multiple times and studiously avoided giving answers to those questions. and i think how are you going to

move forward and make sure that this doesn't happen again? if you don't know what the issue is. was there an intelligence failure or a problem with politics or race affecting the reaction to what happened? >> phillip, the jerk who had the feet up on nancy pelosi's desk interviewed by russian media recently and this propaganda that's coming out of right wing media, how much is that contributing to this alternate reality that the republicans are selling right now? >> it is essential. the fact that we're hearing now this focus which is sort of the dark mirror image, this focus now on the right that somehow the fbi had been sort of operating as a false flag operation on january 6 and pushed forward the violence which is now this theory that's being touted started really in

this right wing website of revolver and picked up by tucker carlson on fox news. so we're seeing this sort of recasting of january 6 being propagated on the right specifically to the point that they're trying to shift where the blame is and there's a practiced action to recast it as being the deep state's fault and seen this over and over again and the process under way right now and there's questions of how thches able to happen and what the fbi was doing but the evidence cited in order to promote this new conspiracy theory which russia is at least in some senses is able to very quick to embrace is not the -- there isn't the evidence to bolster that and heard vladimir

putin this week say that -- point to january 6 as an example of something that -- part of the what about ism with the united states and something they're paying close attention to. >> nobody knows more about how russia has gotten into our democracy and tried to shape and mold what the american people think and do as it relates to election based on your experience in the mueller investigation. what do you see happening right now with russia and putin's comments that phillip just referenced going forward? do you think that there's been any change, any reluctance to try to use every lever they have to influence our democracy? >> i doubt that things are going to change on that score without america and other countries taking action. one thing that is a really unfortunate thing is that there was at least in the senate

bipartisan support and a bipartisan report about russian interference in the election. that is russian tampering with a federal election and that report is quite extensive, more extensive in many ways than the mueller report but you don't see the same thing with respect to what happened on january 6. and you see a -- you don't see any sort of bipartisan report coming out of that. i think the difference is there's -- there's no russian voting bloc in the america that politicians need to worry about. but i think a lot of people are concerned about the endorsement for donald trump and sees the people who are -- who attacked on january 6 as voters so you aren't seeing the same pushback on the disinformation put out about the january 6 events which as you said makes it that much

more important to have a commission and hearings on what happened. >> we spent a lot of time, al, talking about bipartisanship and irritating the progressives that forget about it. we have to do it because they're never going to be part of this. is this a carveout? do you think the progressive community understands that a bipartisan report as to january 6 is important in terms of eating away at all of this alternate reality that the republicans are putting out this? >> i think some progressives do understand that because the ultimate goal ought to be what is kept in mind. if the goal is to not normalize the insurrection you need to remove doubt that this was biassed based on party so you buy in effect a bipartisan kind of agreement on the findings of

the commission, otherwise they could just dismiss it, give any kind of interpretation they want. so this is a little bigger than what side of a political corner you stand on. we are talking about whether we normalize insurrections, normalize the attempted coup of the certification of election. sometimes you may have to stretch your little silo walls to say, for the good of us all we need to make sure that all of us bought into this. otherwise what do we have here? we can go back fighting later but this affects us all and got to be grown about dealing with this. >> phillip bump, andrew weissman, thank you for starting us off today. reverend al is sticking around it looks like joe manchin's compromise on voting rights is winning over progressives so leave it to mcconnell to blow it

all up. what's a democrat to do? i'll ask former democratic senator from alabama my friend doug jones. plus, president biden has done what he can to vaccinate americans. but what about the small, rural communities where the message just isn't getting through? we'll talk with country superstarr brad paisley with thoughts on what can be done. he'll be joining us live coming up. tonight, i'll be eating a pork banh mi with extra jalapeños. [doorbell rings]

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which is endorsed by stacey abrams. what is of extraordinarily dubious constitutionality would remove redistricting from state legislatures and hand it over to computers. equally unacceptable. totally inappropriate. all republicans i think will oppose that, as well. >> that was mitch mcconnell also in an alternate reality and slapping senator joe manchin across the face. republicans were very quick to come out against manchin's offer after stacey abrams endorsed it. where do manchin and the democrats go? i want to bring in my friend and former democratic colleague former senator doug jones of alabama. also served as u.s. attorney in alabama. doug, it is really great to see

you. thank you for joining me today. >> thank you, claire. it is great do see you. always great to get this team back together. >> there you go! so as a democrat from a red state, you and i can wander off and complain and talk about the state of politics forever because we get it, how hard to be a democrat from a red state, but how do you think joe manchin is feeling today? after he has done everything but go steady with some of the republicans in terms of trying to push this idea of bipartisanship, for them to pour this cold bucket of water on his head like in a nanosecond, i'm curious, what do you think he's feeling today in terms of the love he might have for all of his friends in the republican party? >> i think he's incredibly frustrated. we know joe and you know that

he's been sincere to do this from the very beginning and just like the president. but at every turn except on infrastructure where there appears to be agreement because that's because there's a lot of support about that around the country in the red states. i think joe's probably incredibly frustrated but i'm not sure he is surprised. he's given republicans a long runway to try to find the common ground necessary. one thing i'm not sure that joe or any democrats have talked about enough and that is that if there's a belief in the country that there was massive fraud in november, the way to correct that is through uniform standards, the very standards that joe manchin is putting on in this bill and so i don't know if that message is really gotten through to the republicans but joe has to be frustrated. i think he is closely getting that fork in the road where he's got to make a determine nation

that i'm not just so sure to get that on these issues. what will i do? i believe manchin will protect voting. >> i think there in the middle of the fork of the road is the filibuster. >> correct. >> you know? you and i both know joe and how stubborn he can be and he can get mad when folks aren't being reasonable. do you think it's possible that he would do some kind of reform of the filibuster or a carveout for something that is so closely hun to civil rights in this country as it relats to the democracy and the ability to vote? >> absolutely i believe that. i believe if joe and every other democrat and independents that we got to caucus with us understand they have gone to as far as they can to get republicans on board and then they have to make a determination. joe and everybody other democrat

in the senate got to make the decision and that is, is congress going to be a backstop for what's going on around the country? the voting laws coming so quickly, it is like the california wildfires. if congress can't stop that, then i'm not sure anybody's got any business being up there. i think joe will come to a conclusion if he cannot get anything done -- let's say this. if a bill can get on the floor that can get a few republican votes, just a few, doesn't matter ten but a few, it gives some ability for joe manchin and others to say this did get some support. if you break the filibuster, you don't have to get 60 votes and would be good to pass with 53, 54, 55 but i think he is coming that fork in the road and into the conclusion that -- two things. number one, that republicans don't seem to want to work with

him. number two, it's great to talk about bipartisanship efforts for voting. everybody agrees with that. best of all worlds but that's not happening around the country. this is a partisan effort in all states across this country. there is no bipartisanship to it. i think joe's coming to realize that, as well, which is why he has this proposal and giving the republicans a shot to say work with me to pare this down and get something done for the american people. >> senator jones, al sharpton. good to see you again. when you look at what senator manchin was proposing and been doing a lot of behind the scenes things, talking to civil rights leaders, republicans, when he finally came out with the actual recommendations which are no way one way or another. many progressives may disagree

with the points. what do you think his motive was to lay out his recommendations? what do you think he thought would happen? when mcconnell vetoed it before anyone on the progressive side could say, no, this is not completely what we want he just lambasted it as soon as stacey gave them room i'm okay with this but clearly a lot wouldn't have been, what do you think manchin's motive was and what he proposed? >> good to see you, as well. let's just back up a second because republicans and mcconnell and others are used the stacey abrams endorsement. she said she can be for something. if it passes the senate she could get behind it so that's an

important distinction. i think this is a good faith effort to see if there's areas of agreement to be reefed to set the uniform standards to do the things that are necessary to get everybody the confidence that the booths are free, fair and without fraud and access to the ballot box. this is a good faith effort. i don't think he believes like any other senator that introduces a concept like that believes it that way or none without a modification. it was a good faith effort and olive branch to republicans saying i hear you on a lot of things. talk to me a little bit and see what we can find some agreements on because i believe that we can get a bill done and i've said that for a long time. unfortunately senator mcconnell as he is prone to do douses it with cold water and got to be

discouraging and showing you where we are in this country i think where we just can't even get a january 6 commission done. it's going to be hard to get voting rights done without doing something to modify that filibuster. >> doug, quickly, i'd like to jump in. you've spent time in the justice department. could you give us a quick behind the curtain look at what the heck happened when doj was subpoenaing minor family members of members of congress and the attorneys general say i had no idea what was going on? how in the world could that happen? who needs to be blamed for that in the department of justice for that incredible breach and abuse of power? >> yeah. look. first of all, the inspector general is doing -- going to get to the bottom of this. michael horowitz is a good, fine inspector general.

he's got to get to the bottom of this because it makes no sense in my experience with the department of justice that an attorneys general, deputy attorney general, the head of -- all the people did not know. it would have gone to the highest levels of the department and if they did not know that the members were subpoenaed i'm not sure what's worse. if they didn't know and got rogue department of justice employees running around there or they did know and sanctioned it. either one is a really bad picture of the trump justice department. inspector general has got to get to the bottom of this. i think that it's first instance is up to the inspector general to get to the bottom of this but it is -- i can just tell you from experience that any subpoena, any issue involving a member of congress would have gone to the highest levels of

the department of justice. that is not something to be done by an assistant u.s. attorney or a mid level person at main justice. it should not have been done. i don't think it was done. i think it did go to the highest levels and will see what the new round of emails will show. >> doug jones, thank you for spending time with us. i miss you and thank you. >> thank you. up next, the man who helped president obama went the white house on what he called a def: con 1 moment for democracy. hail, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right.

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i think the challenge we're facing on the republican side is that when my name is attached they have visions of georgia and the change in election outcomes. we are not guaranteed victory every cycle but we should be guaranteed access and opportunity and not find it terrifying. in their shoes i would find the best way to mute me, solve the problem so that i have less to talk about. >> that was stacey abrams on this show yesterday. talking about why she's such a lightning rod for republicans. the woman at the forefront of the voting rights fight was instrumental in delivering the senate to the democrats. stacey abrams also asked the question we're all asking -- why are republicans so afraid of

letting people vote. joining the conversation david plouffe and tim miller. both are msnbc contributors and the rev is back, as well. 2022, i have a lot of folks that are saying to me all the time, rev, what can we do about manchin? the best thing to do to remove him from this pinnacle of power to have more democrats. so 2022 is a very big deal. let's start with turnout with you. we saw record turnout for joe biden. i don't think any of us could deny that dislike of donald trump. >> absolutely. >> was behind a lot of that turnout. talk about turnout in 2022 and what you're worried about. >> is that people that voted because they were voting against

something that we don't give them something to vote for. the inspiration of the obama years was that they voted because they wanted change and they wanted someone hopeful. you can't discourage people and give them hope at the same time. in 2020, it was they wanted to get rid of donald trump. the whole mishandling of the pandemic as well as policing and other issues. we need a resounding issue on the democratic side in terms of governing and a hopeful message because you don't have trump there. he doesn't have twitter or instagram and all that anymore so you have to run for something because you're not running against something and we'll have a record. they're going to judge the first year. whether they do it in a fair way

or not we're going to have to defend that because that's what the republicans run against. they will try to rally the base saying that they have done nothing whether they do or not and that they stole the election from trump. they'll try to keep that big lie going into 2022. >> david, the structural issues that we have in terms of winning in 2022, speak to that. we are at a really difficult point in terms of the country being so divided. what are the structural problems? what do you see for 2022 in the states that biden won like arizona, pennsylvania, wisconsin but then states that we were surprised we didn't win like florida. >> it is good to see you in studio of all things. >> yeah. >> we have big instruct ral challenges right now so the not too distant future i think 30%

will determine the house. there's not a senate race to waste and the 2024 cycle as you know well is a tough cycle as you look at it so we have to win everything we can in 2022 not just the majority but add a few seats to cushion whatever we might lose in 2024. redistricting might cost seats just before the election. this is going to be incredibly challenging. the republicans, yes, across the country making it harder to register and vote. but the thing that really concerns me is to give control of who decides who won elections to the state legislative politicians. anybody watching this right now would be literally out of their mind to think it is not within the realm of poerpt if the

republicans win back the house in 2024 and the democrat wins the electoral college they won't certify. so we have to hold the house in '22 and not just hold the senate but add seats and when can we get back to winning states like missouri? when we did a lot of work together we had all four senators in dakotas and louisiana and arkansas. we have to get more competitive. what excites me is great people and candidates running for office even though you say that's a longshot. look at val demings. marco rubio seems like he's scared of everything and val demings seems like she's not afraid of anything. we have got to be more competitive and make sure that the elections are fair and that ultimately they're not able to steal them and this is where we are.

would you bet democracy? i'm not sure you would. this is why with manchin came out yesterday is so important with the hope to maybe push back on the insidious efforts. >> tim, david was eloquent about where the democrats are. now let's do the very depressing turn of where the republicans are. mike pence was in orlando, florida, today at the faith and freedom conference. let's listen to how he was greeted. >> i want to thank my friend ralph reed for the overly generous words. i'm deeply humbled by them. he knows me well enough the introduction i prefer is shorter. i'm a cris i can't be, a conservative and a republican. in that order. >> yeah. there was a lot of shouts. boos and shouts of traitor greeting mike pence at what should be the sweet spot.

where will the republican party be in 2022? >> yeah. hey, claire, good to see you in the seat. how much humiliation can one man take that he's willing to go and stand there and continue to suck up to donald trump after he had a mob shouting hang mike pence and now fans in the audience calling him a traitor? i think the republicans have some things working for them in 2022 that david laid out. like the rev laid out. as far as motivation to go out and go against biden where maybe the democrats won't have a boogieman on the ticket as much but some things work in the disfavor. two democratic senators in georgia is because of that very conflict within the party that you saw at the speech at the faith and freedom conference. a certain amount of hardline

donald trump supporters that didn't turn out in georgia because they thought the election was rigged. a certain amount of old line republican voters that didn't turn out because they weren't so excited given how donald trump behaviored and some like me that switched sides to vote for the democrat. it could work to their advantage to draw this wedge between the maga base of the republican base who are trump supporters first and then republicans second. i want to put out one thing on what david said. i think i have to defend joe manchin and for democrats to win some senate seats in louisiana and the dakotas i wish i was hearing more from the democrats saying we could use more yeoman chins instead of throwing fruit at joe manchin because if you want to get 52, 53 democrats and

if you believe that democracy is in threat at the level that i do and i think all four of us do then that requires some compromise and some sacrifices and i think that manchin in the hot seat right now because it's 50-50 and he has to ruin the party for certain priorities the democrats want but i think the democrats could use more joe manchins given the threat that's coming from the people in that room at the faith and freedom conference. >> tim, you are making my heart go pitter patter. david, you know, he's right about that. and some of these deals that people want to dismiss and say go to reconciliation, how important are they to someone like mark kelly running in arizona or others with a tough race? how important is it that people from states that aren't blue for

a win in the pocket to campaign on? >> it's important. i think that joe manchin situation is magnified because of 50-50. but at the end of the day and listen. this -- we're not living in normal times. if democrats lose power america might be lights out. the big battle for '22 and '24 is democracy versus autocracy and we have to have a big boat. welcome republicans in and moderate conservative democrats running in tough territory. may might win in some places that surprise you. they need to both get a lot done. claire, you can speak to this as well as anybody. you don't want do go to next year not saying we delivered on the economy, on health care, protecting democracy, beating the pandemic. roads, bridges, jobs. you will be strengthened,

doesn't mean a win by doing as much as possible so i think they all can say we have gone overboard to get the republicans on board. maybe infrastructure you can do it with some of the colleagues but the worst thing to do would be to not do everything. both because i think that's more politics and what the country needs. you don't know how long as you know well and that's good policy and good politics. >> tim miller and david plouffe, thank you so much. president biden with a warning to the unvaccinated in america. you're still at risk. so we ask country superstar brad paisley to come back and tell us what can be done to convince more people to get the shot. he'll join us here live, next. 6 re

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a major feat record time, but still likely to end up short with just a little over two weeks to go. and with biden today saying only 15 states have met his goal so far and all of them states he won last year, his administration has a very uphill climb. at the community level where americans are most often swayed by their neighbors or maybe tharn country western star by political leaders. that brings us to one of my favorite country western superstars, blad brad paisley. and he is joining us now. thank you, brad, thanks for being here. so here is the thing. i'm looking at my state. and i'm looking at the places where people aren't getting vaccinated. and as you know in very small communities, it is way more important to them what their next door neighbor, what their friend at church, what the guy that they work with, with all

those people, what they say and think about vaccinations, not about what people this washington say. or frankly even people on tv. but country music has an ability to reach these people. and you are one of the stars that has taken your time to say to people how important it is to get vaccinated. what can we do in these rural communities that are so hardened and resistant to the idea of protecting themselves and their families? >> you know, that is a great question. i feel like knowing my people where i come from, i'm from west virginia, similar to where you are from, a small town of 1200 people, this is the kind of community where immediately if a house is on fire, before the fire department can get there, there are a lot of people with buckets trying to put the fire out already. they band together and do what it takes to help their neighbor. and so i think that they have been -- all my fans have been fed -- they are seeing

disinformation everywhere and they are being told that the water doesn't put the fire out. so it is a really strange thing to try to be louder than that disinformation. and think that when they feel like -- when they realize that it is the patriotic thing, when they realize that this is for the greater good, they will do it. and i also think the incentives work. the carrot on the stick, the idea of positive reinforcement where tickets are given to people who are vaccinated and -- i like the lottery systems that states are doing. i like the fact that governor justice in west virginia did 100 bucks a person when they got vaccinated. it is a shame we have to, but at the same time, whatever it takes because the variant, it is coming. >> yeah, the delta variant i know is rampant in rural missouri, i'm sure it is in rural tennessee. and rev, you have some of the same resistance. >> what brad is saying is the same in urban areas, black

areas, and i think that validaters like brad and our community ministers and others and in many ways we all speak to a base. i mean, i'm not known as a country western fan, but i have a preacher friend of mine, brad, that plays whiskey lulaby like it was a gospel song. and so if we can all talk to the people, then all of us can help do this. >> so an awkward question for you, but are there is a lot of country superstars at your level that are afraid to talk about getting vaccinated because they are afraid of some kind of backlash from their fans? >> i don't know. it is an interesting thing to -- i really have not had this discussion with many. i know a lot of people have encouraged their band, my entire band and crew and anyone going down the road is vaccinated. they were really great about it. i just basically encouraged it

and said we'll meet people in every state, it is safest if we go there with this armor on. and they went and did it. i think that there is -- it is an interesting thing when you look at what happens and how this became what it is. i think back to the original anti-vax movement. i see it almost starting with the hollywood elite that didn't want their kids vaccinated because of a bunked report. and i think that there is a level of reaching these folks that you have to say look, the way to be, the most productive hit, the way to be the person in a helps, is to get this. the patriotic thing to -- when you raise your arm and say america, get a shot in it. that is the way that you are the most patriotic. and i think that they would like to think -- i don't think that they understand necessarily just all of the things that go into

this about the patriotic moment we're in, how as a nation we are stronger with this. because i think that you'll have a choice. the choice is, you get the vaccine and you don't get covid or you get covid and you don't get the vaccine. so it is around important patriotic moment for all of us. >> brad, putting it in those terms, patriotism. thank you so much, friend. brad's new song called "city of music" is now out. it will be a big part of nashville's free outdoor july 4th celebration and guess who is the headliner? none other than brad paisley. finally, my television appearances from my home kitchen caught the attention of all of you. cake updates were all anyone wanted to know, what sweet homemade dessert were behind me. pound cakes, bundt cakes, carrot cakes. so it only seemed right to end

this special hour with lemon raspberry that i baked this morning. and of course i'm going to share it with reverend al who has been here with me for the whole hour. and importantly, i'm going to share it with the crew and the team here at deadline white house that made this look easy. the next hour of deadline white house with my friend jason jackson -- jason johnson, sorry, jason, i went that whole program and didn't mess up until the end with your name. >> you did great. >> it starts right after this quick break. thanks so much. after this quick break. thanks so much ♪ it's grilled cheese time. ♪ ♪ yeah, it's time for grilled cheese. ♪ ♪ after we make grilled cheese, ♪ ♪ then we're eating grilled cheese. ♪ ♪ because it's time. ♪ ♪ yeah. ♪ ♪ time for grilled cheese. ♪ ♪ na na na na ♪ na na na na... ♪ hey hey hey. ♪ goodbye.

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can i get some privacy, please? one, two! one, two, three! only pay for what you need! with customized car insurance from liberty mutual! nothing rhymes with liberty mutual. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i brought in ensure max protein, with thirty grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! ( sighs wearily ) here, i'll take that! ( excited yell ) woo-hoo! ensure max protein. with thirty grams of protein, one-gram of sugar, and nutrients to support immune health! ( abbot sonic ) i talk to everybody and i've been working across the aisle. that is the bedrock of our democracy. accessible, fair and basically secured voting. that is it. and right now we have a divided country, this is not about me.

it is about the country. people have to look at how we got to january 6 and why don't we want to fix it. >> are you going to get the republicans to vote for -- >> i hope. >> have you talked to republicans? >> i talk to everybody. you know that basically murkowski signed on to the john lewis act with me. so that is the bottom line. you can't give up on this stuff. hi, everyone. i'm jason johnson in for nicolle wallace. it is 5:00 in new york as american democracy hangs in the balance. senator joe manchin spelling out that the bedrock of our economy is under attack because of the former president's big lie and ensuing assault by republicans through the suppression of voter laws. federal legislation passed by the house way back in march that would make changes to campaign finance voting and ethics laws. senator manchin was for it

because he was against it and now for it again. he stood against it for much of 2021 saying that he would not accept any measure that wasn't bipartisan. yet this week he flipped again. he put out a list of provisions that he could accept to pass the bill. some of those include making election day a public holiday, mandating at least 15 consecutive days of early voting for federal elections, fanning gerrymandering and requiring i.d. with allowable alternatives. it was well received among some democrats and some voting rights activists. even getting the support of stacey abrams. but there is still a massive hurdle to overcome before the legislation can pass. 00 republicans in the senate. chuck schumer will put the bill to a vote on tuesday. it is all but guaranteed to fail as the "new york times" reports with mr. manchin suddenly within reach for the democrats, republicans on thursday escalated their attacks on the voting rights bill portraying it

as a power-grabbing abomination. though some republicans previously expressed willingness to talk about a potential compromise, it seemed impossible to emergency a few let alone 10 of them siding with democrats on this measure. all this boils down to the fact that without eliminating the filibuster, manchin's compromise will likely prove fruitless. and there is no time to wait. it is written that elections have consequenc and without fair voting rights, there may be a permanent loss of democracy. we do not have the luxury to wait. while the american people continue to raise their voices as a push for reforms, we need voting rights lawyers to continue to show up in court and

tell the story of american citizens whose right is being threatened. for now democracy remains on the docket. the fight is where we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. judith brown from national office is here. and also with us, cliff albright from the black motors matter fund. and sam stein from politico. thank you all for being here. i want to play some sound from some democrats who were very happy about joe manchin's proposals yesterday. and cliff, i want your thoughts on the other side. >> this is progress. and i got to tell you i'm so grateful for what senator manchin has done and what is do. he is trying to find a way to protect voting rights in this country at a moment that they are under attack in more than 40 states in the wake of an insurrection on the 6th of

january that sought to overturn an election. >> i think that it is a positive step. you have to perceive the progress. many of us thought that he was a hell no, but it seems like he has softened his stance and he is willing to work to find a common ground to move forward. we have a voting problem in this country and that problem is that you have republicans trying to suppress the right to vote in many of these states that we see around the nation. so i'm harkened to see the discussion moving forward. >> so cliff, i got to start with you, there is a lot of mainstream democrats who are like yay, joe manchin gave us a list of things! and there are other individuals who are a bit concerned. how do you feel about the enthusiasm that some democrats are already showing to the proposals from joe manchin? >> yeah, thanks for having me. i got to say i'm very concerned

about that level of enthusiasm. i don't share that level of enthusiasm. first of all, yes, it is undeniable that we're at a better place today than 11 days ago when joe manchin says that by no means that he would vote for the for the people act. so yes, we're in a better place. but with that said, this is still far short of what hr-1 protects. there are still protections that joe manchin is not reporting. making it easier for those with previous convictions and those impacted with the justice system to get their right to vote. he doesn't protect making it harder or blocking people that are trying to -- these conservative groups that are trying to do voter intimidation type voter challenges. he doesn't protect. even though hr-1 does. so there are some critical provisions that his proposal does not protect. and then there are some things that he is proposing that for some places are a step

backwards. imposing objections on a state that doesn't have any problems? so i'm concerned about a level of the enthusiasm because it is a horrible negotiaing tactic. but, yes, we are in a better place than we were ten days ago. >> sam, i want to go sort of more specifically through the list. great stuff at the top. we'll make election day a national holiday, 15 days of mandatory early voting. but then you get to other suggestions here which would allow states to still maintain voter roles which many people interpret the ability to continue to purge voter roles at the last minute. also suggestions about severely limiting access to no excuse mail-in ballots and absentee balloting. sam, when you look at this list, what part of this do you think is joe manchin thinking or what

he is just throwing out there to make some republicans happy? >> my focus immediately goes to the voter i.d. elements. basically if you believe the 2020 election was not fraudulent, there is no need to introduce a voter i.d. into a bill. but if you want to get republican voters on board for some sort of comprehensive legislation, then that is the type of element that you throw into your negotiation. he did caveat it by saying using a utility bill, we do have some advocates like stacey abrams saying that. but to me that is designed to win the republican vote and it won't win a single republican vote. so what does it get him? the ability to say he tried. it gets the democrats to say okay, we have 50 members potentially for this. i doubt it gets him -- offer gets him to the point where he

is willing to scrap the filibuster, but it does set up a political dynamic in which the democratic party can say we made this concession, republicans did not go for it, so we need to find other ways to protect the franchise or go after republicans for not protecting the franchise. so my focus is squarely on that voter i.d. >> this is what is interesting to me. when democrats make this argument, hey, we tried -- no, mitch mcconnell said i won't work but regardless. so i don't know why democrats want to negotiate with people that say that they won't negotiate with them. diane, i want to ask you this because this is something else. this is a sound that i think also indicates bad faith negotiating on the part of the republican party. this is a quote from senator roy blunt about who was involved in trying to put together these new suggestions. >> we all -- i think every one of us looking for opportunities

to look for senator manchin and we found those opportunities. i think when stacey abrams endorsed manchin's proposal, it became the stacey abrams substitute. >> there are a hundred different ways that i could think of unpacking this. but what is roy blunt doing by randomly throwing staey abrams' name into something that manchin has been working on for potentially months? >> we don't have enough time in this show to unpack everything in that statement. first of all, throwing out stacy abrams' name was clearly a bull horn to the republican party about the fact that black folks need a compromise. but put it into perspective. this compromise was dead on arrival. at the end of the day, it is not

just voter i.d., but if we look at some of the things that they are -- that he recommended, it is really about what goes to the heart of the republican party which is states' rights. mitch mcconnell is clear that the feds did not need to be in the business of protecting voting rights. that should be left at the state level. and what they did, what he did in his compromise, that he would weaken the department of justice authority to be in the middle of these voting rights. we know that the biden administration just as they were doubling the lawyers in the voting rights section, and we need the federal government on our side. and i want to put it in perspective because the urgent city is here. the house is on fire. we have a supreme court that is getting ready to decide a very important voting rights case which could kill the voting rights act in the next couple weeks. redistricting is coming up and the congressional elections in

2022. so if they don't do anything now, democracy isin trouble. >> cliff, i'm very bottom line about what is important about these bills and when these bills actually matter. you are out in the streets, you are traveling around the country and you see what is going on. obviously the democrats will not get everything that they like. the progressives won't get everything that they like. but by the end of the year, what has to be passed at a federal level in order to have a punter's chance for remotely fair elections in places like georgia, florida and pennsylvania next year? >> first of all, you have to have more access to voting. some of the things that they mentioned is supporting. the expansion number of days for voting, making it easier. restrictions on closing polling places. so all of those provisions are important. i really think that something that is missing is that there has to be a provision which i

don't think was thought of when hr-1 was passed, but the issue of overturning elections which is increasingly important, that is something that is a trend in all of these things, in good, florida, they tried it. in texas, they failed. we see what they are doing in arizona. whatever the final version is has to include something around that. and if i could just say something about the issue of compromise. at black folks, whenever we see the issue of compromise, usually we're on the short end of the stick. three-fifths compromise, missouri compromise. if you don't know it, google it. but you can't compromise when one side is not dealing with reality. they are dealing with a lie. if i'm going to negotiate whether to get a dog or a unicorn as a pet, i can't compromise on the unicorn because it is not real. and that is what is happening. he is compromising on a position that is simply not based on

reality. >> yes, i enjoy any my little pony references and unicorns during the show. i want to play this sound. this goes exactly with what xlif cliff is talking about here. you have a situation where overturning elections is the goal. you have a lot of republicans are wanting to make it hard to vote. but i want to play this sound with what happened to mike pence earlier today when he was speaking to a group of conservatives. >> i want to thank my friend ralph reed by those words. he though knows me well enough to know that the introduction i prefer is shorter. i'm a christian, conservative and republican in that order. >> sam, people were screamin "traitor" at mike pence. if this is the feeling of mike pence that he is considered a traitor that he wouldn't break the constitution in order to

throw the election for trump, is there any way of any type of negotiation that could happen at the senate or even at the state level if this is where the core of the republican party and conservatives are? >> first of all, cliff just blew my mind about unicorns. i had thought that they were real until this moment. so cliff, you destroyed my mind there. as for the pence/trump thing, this is not obviously a republican party, this is a trump party. if you think of the faith and freedom conference, i don't know how many if any of you have been to it, this is the sort of ideal setting for mike pence. these are the people who he appeals to the most in the conservative movement. for him to be heckled, admittedly it wasn't like the full audience, but he was heckled and called a traitor goes to show you the totality with which donald trump has taken over the conservative movement and republicanism. this is not a party, this is a

cult mentality personality that is geared toward trump. so the only deal that you can cut is a deal that donald trump would essentially say is okay. he would have to give his stamp of approval to something like that. and what we know about donald trump right now is that his intense focus, a paranoia of sorts, is on voting and making sure that the election is cast into doubt. so i have some serious doubts myself that donald trump would ever sign off on any voting rights legislation unless it went totally towards the way it cast doubt on the 2020 elections. >> and diane, i want to close with this because this is important. we have to look at the white house thousand. we've seen what is happening at the senate and lower level. vice president harris has been parachuted into try to spearhead some of the voting rights efforts. what can she do at a practical level? it shows that joe biden and the

whole administration cares, but is there some unique skillset or an argument that vice president harris might have or some expertise she might have that may make her a good person for the battle of voting rights? >> inlgs i think a few things. she was a senator, she has relationships there not just on the democratic side. so the idea is that she understands that process. she knows people in the senate and that she has always ban kind of a voice of reason. and so the ideas that she is in a very good position could help negotiate to help move manchin and the gop. and so -- and she knows voting rights. and so i think that she is best positioned and i think that the president was right to put her up front on this issue. but we'll see. you know, it is not looking good and we will see where people stand and whether or not they are ready to protect our

democracy. >> sorry to getting your name wrong earlier. >> that is okay. it is juneteenth. >> we're all free today. thank you all for starting us off on this hour. still ahead for us, the fight against republican efforts to suppress the vote moves to pennsylvania. we'll talk with a state lawmaker there who says that the gop new voter restriction proposal is, quote, 150 majors of garbage. aje and up next, the case of chris paul out of the nba playoffs because of covid protocols, it is bringing new attention to break-through infections. and today is the first national observance of juneteenth. we'll talk about how it came together and how americans should and shouldn't honor our newest holiday. ♪

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act now. act now. talk to your family and friends who have gotten vaccinated. talk to your doctor or pharmacist. follow their lead. and make the choice for yourself. as i said, we're heading into god willingness a summer of joy, a summer of freedom. >> today president biden is urging again for everyone eligible to get their vaccine. this target for july 4th, 70% of americans with at least one shot and 160 million fully vaccinated, both likely to fall

very short. and now breakthrough infections, fully vaccinated people testing positive, though a small percentage, they are adding to vaccine hesitancy. and the latest, chris paul, sidelined by the nba safety protocols indefinitely, up ending the nba playoffs after reporting telling espn that he had been vaccinated. let's bring in our medical contributor from advancing health equity. doctor, it is fantastic to talk to you. so i'm going to start with this. we spent most of last year saying get vaccinated, get vaccinated. as much as i hate this cliché, i was in the barber shop yesterday and i was talking to people and i said hey, did you hear about the chris paul thing? and they were like i thought the vaccine kept you from getting covid, why should i get it? that was literally the conversation i had yesterday. how do we talk to people about these breakthrough infections

without leading to overall spec spk civil about getting vaccinated? >> i think that the public messages has to be clear, concise and nuanced as well. the fact is that when you look at the numbers, breakthrough infections are essentially defined as a positive coronavirus test two weeks either after your second dote of the mrna vaccines or the one dose of the johnson & johnson vaccine. that is when you are fully i'm immunized. so it was a positive test. even though there are four dozen people in massachusetts that got it, it is just a fraction of the percentage of millions of people that got the vaccine. and only a fraction have symptoms that require hospitalizations and even fewer die. the fact is that these vaccines

are highly effective and chris paul even though he had a positive test, it is unclear if he had symptoms or not. i think that the nba is testing everybody. he will pick up breakthrough infections. they do happen. but what is clinically significant for the cdc are those infections that require hospitalizations and that are fatal. and so that is not the case with chris paul and the majority of the people who do get breakthrough infections. >> so this is another concern that i have as somebody that managed to get vaccinated very early. i wonder at some point, is there a possibility that we're going to need booster shots? because if the vaccinations can break through, even if it is not leading to people having hospitalizations, if you are an early vaccine recipient, is it possible that by flu season in october or november of this year or maybe january in 2022, that you might need a booster shot? how close are we do facing or knowing enough information to see if that is a possibility?

>> we should actually though relatively soon. those clinical trial participant s last summer are still being stud discussed. so we'll see if boosters or if they are having waning immunity, if boosters will be required. i think most likely that they will be required, but we don't know if it will be a year, two years or three years. and i come back to the vaccines are highly effective and that often these tests are measuring antibody response but our immune system is very complex. there are memory b cells, memory t cells that last and memory for the immune system for actually years, sometimes decades. >> so along the same lines, and i've often compared the vaccine to say protection, right? it doesn't completely protect pregnancy, but certainly less likely if you are using birth control, those sorts of things.

but what we're also seeing is that there are in some areas the people who keep getting hospitalized are those that are unvaccinated. and i think that we're seeing the potential of a free rider problem. so what is the messaging to people who are like i'm not vaccinated and the other people around me are and masks are coming on. how do we get the last holdouts who have not yet gotten the vaccine to actually get it? >> messaging is that you are still vulnerable if you are unvaccinated. and so right now in the icus, in the hospital, the majority of the people that are hospitalized and in the intensive care unit are people who are unvaccinated. and then secondly obviously there is the other concern about the delta variant who is probably the most concerning variant that we've seen thus far. it is more trance miserable person to person. and it has more severe

consequences. and if you are only partially vaccinated, that may not be effective enough. and so people should be concerned about this variant. it is about 10% of cases right now. it is doubling every 7 to 10 days and will likely be the predominant variant in a month or two. >> have to watch for that either in the variants or loki. thank you. and coming up, we'll talk to a state lawmaker who is calling out republican efforts to suppress the vote. that is next. at is next over four million people on medicare... made a choice... to take charge of their health care. with an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare.

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pennsylvania is the latest front in the nationwide battle over state-level voting restrictions. all inspired by donald trump's big lie of a stolen election. one of the six swing states that was a prime target for the trump campaign's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. now republicans in that state are pushing a bill that would among other things require voters to show i.d. and restrict mail-in voting. all in the name of election integrity. democrats are slamming the bill but perhaps no one put it better than state representative malcolm kinyatta. >> this is 150 pages of garbage. and what it is is nothing more than voter suppression. we began this process because

your supporting candidate lost and you couldn't handle it. members of this general assembly or buses went down for what is now being called by republicans assemble capital 4 and we watched as people armed with weapons but also armed with the lies that you repeatedly told go and actually participate in violent insurrection. and i can't believe that less than six months from this insurrection we're acting as if we can trust the folks who stoked the insurrection to rewrite our voting laws. >> joining us now is that representative malcolm kenyatta. i want to start by saying that

artisanal voter suppression? that was a brilliant line on your behalf. i want to start with this, you said that these new bills, it is 150 pages of just hot garbage. what are republicans trying to do now specifically in pennsylvania that has you and other voting rights activists concerned? >> i said it and it is garbage. a part of what they are trying to do is what they have always tried to do. but now they are adding a little decorative flourishness and garnishment to it and decided to call this bill the voter protection act and it does not nothing. what people need at this point, two forms of voter i.d. at the polls. it cuts back the ways in which and the time line of which folks

can register to vote, can get a mail-in ballot, it all but limits drop-off box locations. and then they include a couple provisions like expanded early voting, but they want to do that in 2025. but all the restrictive things that they believe will help them win the election, they want to do that right now. we can't continue to act like we don't know what is happening. a number of years ago the republican speaker said that he believed that voter i.d. would help then presidential candidate mitt romney win pennsylvania. our courts said that it was unconstitutional. and this bill is yet another attempt to try to silence voters that they can't convince. instead of actually working on things that pennsylvanians need, they are working on shutting up as many pennsylvanians as possible because they are pushing forward an agenda that is deeply unpopular with pennsylvanians, deeply unpopular

with the american peel. people. so this is squarely targeted at getting invitations to mar-a-lago, not at the protecting the right to vote. >> and it is always interesting to me that she have a voter protection bill that actually suppresses the vote. that does not make any sense. you mentioned though that you said that this is all about getting an invitation down to mar-a-lago, which is the giant cavern that the former president is hiding out in now. do you find with your republican colleagues how many are hook line and sinker on this big lie or how many are just going along with it because they do't want to get primaried by someone who is just crazy? >> yes, that is a great question and i am happy that you brought

it up. there are plenty of people like the leading candidate for governor who rented buses to take people down. you know, he really leaves this nonsense. but most of them don't believe it. they don't believe it. but isn't that worse in a way, that these folks understand that this is ridiculous, they understand that what they are doing is undemocratic, but they are willing to do it just to remain in office i guess so they could have their name on a door? there are not that many perks. so if your only goal is to stay in office, i'm not sure what the purpose of that is. if your job is to day in and day out get up and lie to yourselves, lie to your constituents, lie to the people that you are supposed to represent, i don't understand how somebody could do that job. but that is the job that they get up and do every single day.

they work for this guy that is a twice impeached loser because they know that this is the only way that they can win a republican primary and that is disgraceful. when this is all said and done, i think about the story of benjamin franklin when the woman says what are we going to have, a monarchy or a republic, and he said a republic if you can keep it. and these people won't keep the republic. and that is a disgrace. >> and you said that they are trying to take over things that they can't win. there are some republican officials in pennsylvania now who are like that we want toim port what we saw in arizona, an arizona-style audit. what kind of -- obviously arizona they have democratic senators, and they have a republican governor, what can you and your fellow democrats in

pennsylvania do to prevent that kind of crazy from coming to your state or is this something that could just be funded from the outside and you wouldn't be able to stop them? >> so one of the things that we know with this proposal, the governor will veto this proposal. but what we have seen them did is really bastardize the constitutional amendment process and they have made it clear. in pennsylvania, to pass an amendment, you have to pass it through two sessions and then it goes on the ballot for voters. so i would not be shocked to see some of these proposals be incorporated into a complex constitutional amendment question to try to circumvent the governor's veto. but the thing that would best help with all of these attacks that we're seeing at the state level is for the senate to actually pass hr-1, pass the john lewis voting rights act. and i've been consistent in my opposition to the position that

joe manchin and christian sin in a -- kyrsten sinema have attention that we can only put out the fire if the arsonists are okay with it. what kind of sense does that make that we ask the very people who are trying to burn our democracy to the ground, hey, is it okay if we protect our democracy? would you be all right with it? the senator is absolutely wrong. we need to pass this bill. and it would require us putting out a counter proposal that he thinks that there will be ten republicans who support him and if he believes that i have a bridge to sell him. >> state representative malcolm kenyatta, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. coming up, now that juneteenth is an official federal holiday, the right ways and wrong days to commemorate the end of slavery. commemorate the end of slavery

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rights. no substitute for freeing black people from racism. and if we fail to recognize and challenge the difference, we'll keep getting symbolic crumbs while starving for justice. joining us now is rene graham from the best globe and dr. carter, professor of political science at howard university. rene, thank you for your article. you captured exactly how i feel. but i want you to speak to something here. there is a concern that we often hear sort of publicly and politically that complaining about something like juneteenth shows a lack of appreciation for the people who fought to get the hold day. but sort of explain this idea that you can celebrate this holiday being created but it shouldn't be a way to paper over the existing problems that black people still face in this country? >> thanks for having me. i absolutely salute miss opal

lee who is a model of grace and persistence. she had to fight for decades for something that should have been a given, a juneteenth holiday. but there was a sense of a kind of look what was done, look what we done, almost not giving her as much credit for as long as she fought. and the bottom line is that it is a holiday and it is symbolic but symbols do not equal change. so i want to make sure that when we're talking about juneteenth, that we also start thinking about what kind of a labyrinth that ms. lee will have to navigate with these new voter suppression laws in her native texas. you have to balance these two things out. she can sit back and feel good about what was done, but also be well aware of the job that is not nearly close of being finished. >> and i want to stay on texas for a minute. so some symbolic holidays are great. we have martin luther king day which means whole bunch of 7th

graders give martin luther king speeches. but juneteenth, kids will learn about in school but the legislature now trying to pass a new law which is not only banning critical race theory but trying to argue that any teaching about american history or slavery that treats slavery other than an theme would be outlawed. what do we need to counter this racism and this attack on real american education that we see across the country? >> i have to say thank you for having me and i agree with everything rene said. many people are trying to do this holiday but trying to skirt around why we actually have this holiday to begin with. you have people who were enslaved and then you had people who were not just lying to them about what happened with the end of the war, they are people who out and out refused to allow these people to be freed even

though enslavement had been outlawed. so i think what we are talking about here is sort of getting something with one hand and having the other thing the truth being taken away. and ultimately more than this holiday what people need is actual freedom. what people need is actual truth. and what we'll keep seeing in places like texas and other places, we'll give you the holiday but don't talk about why you actually have it. we can't talk about enslavement and racism. and if you keep treating it as a slippage and not a feature of this country, then we'll continue to sort of do these things and feel self congratulatory but haven't done anything to move the needle. >> so two weeks ago in this country, most of us weren't necessarily expecting to have this friday off. this is a brand new holiday that popped up. and i'm old enough to remember when mlk became a national holiday and that that feeling even at the time, even as a kid,

it is like one day mlk will be used to sell cars and mattresses. so my question for you, rene and also dr. carter, what should we be celebrating juneteenth so that it is not completely captured by marketing and branding like we see these terrible ads about the san jose chargers, how can we celebrate this holiday so it doesn't become a commercialized mess? >> maybe we should start running around and talking about the war on juneteenth. if suddenly it gets co-oped. what i don't want is a version of what has happened to pride celebrations in this country. i'm old enough to remember when pride celebrations were about floats but always with the political heart beating right in front of it. now it is politicians, it is products by department stores and insurance companies. that is not what this is about. i think what juneteenth, you

have to keep the focus on what it is. and why it matters. what happened before juneteenth. and also what has happened after juneteenth. it is not enough to give us juneteenth. we need to talk about tenure. it is not enough to give us a holiday, you talk about promotions that elevate us to the mass elevate us to board of directors. you need to talk about it in full and not this one thing that happened on this one day. >> especially since, dr. carter, it's all based on a lie, right? the core of this holiday is that a large group of white people in texas lied to black people and denied their freedom for two years. when we're talking about this holiday today, some comedians have joked it should only be for black people. that will not be the case. but how do we celebrate a holiday about black people being lied to again? >> there was people in texas who

really were the ones who kept this flame going, who would not let us forget about this. so this is important. if we're going to do anything, we need to follow their lead. but i also think it's worth noting that on this day of jubilee where quite literally you have this signed into law, we're also commemorating the murder of black people in church, right? so this has to be part of that narrative. you can't get the good without the bad. in this country, at least, there is this desire to talk about hero and talk about the good things and want to forget all the negative things that allowed this country to be great. when we were talking about juneteenth, we have to, you know, talk about the bitter and the sweet. >> you know what? i want juneteenth to be like a black festivus where we can air grievances for 24 hours and no one can stop us. thank you for spending some time with us today. >> thank you. when we return, why is the leader of the proud boys now

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thank you for spending the hour with us. nicole will be back on monday. "the beat" starts right now with ari melber. happy juneteenth, ari. how are you. >> this is me shaking your hand through the monitor. >> shaking, exactly, hands. >> and we don't need sanitizer. i miss hands. i miss nicole. we all do. i love seeing you. >> thank you. >> before we go into the weekend, you tell me how big will a biden jobs bill be if there is a biden jobs bill if your view when this is all done? >> i think it's going to be cut down to the bone. i just don't see much support coming from the republicans, and i don't think we see this from infrastructure and anything else like that. i think they're committed to making a half term president.

they don't want him to get