pre-6:00 a.m. construction noise, thank you. we had the construction fire alarms this week. thank goodness tomorrow is friday. thank you for your time. as we wrap up we're thinking about the people and families affected by this building collapse in miami. don't go anywhere, "morning joe" starts now. we are following the breaking news out of south florida right now, rescue crews are at the scene of a partial building collapse. video shows what appears to be a pile of rubble from the crash. it happened on surf side. a witness on the scene said, staying across the street at a hotel and forced to evacuate. 80 units are now responding along with police and multiple fire departments are on the scene as well.

waiting for word of any injuries. it's on collins avenue in surf side, outside of miami beach, a large unit built in 1981 called champagne towers south condo. the collapse was first reported at 2:00 in the morning. undoubtedly people asleep in the building at that time. no word on casualties but we'll have a live report in a moment. let's turn to potential break through on infrastructure talks. a group of senators has agreed to a framework and will head to the white house to meet with president biden today. specifics of the deal, including how it will be paid for have not been released. lawmakers did seem optimistic when they left a closed door meeting with white house officials last night. >> republicans and democrats have come together, along with the white house, and we've agreed on a framework. and we're going to be heading to the white house tomorrow. >> let's bring in nbc news

capitol hill correspondent, host of way too early, kasie hunt. also with us, mike barnicle, jonathan lemire, the host of msnbc's politics nation, reverend al sharpton. and member of "the new york times" editorial board, mara gay, mika has the morning off. joe? >> kasie hunt you never know if we're getting to the end of the deal here but signals are good. the white house did have participants in the meetings following along. joe biden said he still needs to look at the deal but looks like they're moving closer. what can you tell us? >> it does look that way, joe. the late night meetings on two tracks, the bipartisan talks and then discussions between the house speaker nancy pelosi and the democratic leader chuck schumer, because there are a lot

of pieces to this puzzle if we're going to get the entire thing through. that's because democrats are saying they want to do the bipartisan deal if they know they're going to have the votes they need to move a bigger reconciliation bill later on with just democratic votes. this is, though, i think, a pretty critical break through here that they seem to have decided we are basically on the same page. there still are some details, in terms of how to pay for it, that could snag things up. but this, i think, is something that the white house has been anxious to find. i think they have been been -- they have held firm and confident in the strategy to say no, we want to do something bipartisan. we want to do something bipartisan, and now they're optimistic they can get there. the challenge is going to be for every -- what do republicans do?

does mitch mcconnell say, yes, i agree this is a good plan. if he were to come out and say, no, i don't want to do this or send that signal out, it could potentially cause problems so democrats need to make sure they need to have their people in line, this is a joe manchin and kyrsten sinema question. there are democrats behind the scenes saying i want a commitment joom joe manchin is going to sign this bill. >> he's not going to do that. they can keep asking him. i think people are going to take it one bill at a time, so jonathan lemire, it's up to the white house and other members of the democratic caucus, especially in the senate, to figure out whether this bill, standing on its own, is worth their vote or not. it's a long shot from what they've wanted, but, you know, it is a first step. what are you hearing at the white house? >> certainly, joe, it's far less than what the president initially outlined, wanted almost $2 trillion, this is a shade under one but an increase

of $500 billion in spending from the initial republican proposal. as kasie said the details are still being worked out. we do know the key mechanism appears to be increased irs enforcement, going after people who have not been paying taxes. it's a belief that will lead to more money in the years ahead. there's also each side has a red line for now the opposing party is respecting. the republicans didn't want to touch the 2017 trump tax cut, while president biden wanted to make sure that those making less than $400,000 would see their tax go up. seems that's going to happen, too. we know the white house has poured energy into getting this piece done in a bipartisan fashion. president biden also knows since getting to office he needs to be able to show progress on a

bipartisan fashion to keep some democrats in line and we know the list. so they're encouraged. obviously it's not done until the president says it's done. and he'll be reviewing it today. we expect to hear from him later today. his top negotiators over on the hill last night. they're being kept apprised of what's going on. a sense of optimism that they're not quite over the finish line yet but they can get there. >> if you look at the poll numbers in just about every poll we show, including one later today, americans desperately want bipartisan compromise and they'll take less even if it's a bipartisan bill. >> they will. it's amazing where the numbers have gotten, the $1 trillion number seems like the deal, the low ball on infrastructure. we're looking at the calendar, we have fourth of july recess,

then congress comes back for a few days and then you have for the summer. when you mix in the fix we're getting into summer when congress isn't around, what does the schedule look like here? >> it's going to be a bit of a rush. they're saying they want a vote on both of these things, the bipartisan bill and a democratics only reconciliation package in july. there are few days in july, as you point out, when they're all going to be here to pull this off. this is a deal democrats are saying we have to do it this way or we're not going to have the votes to get any of this done. i was talking to congresswoman debbie dingle a minute or so ago she said people hate it when i make the warning but don't make plans for the first week of august. then they have to write the details of the bills. it's likely they'll have to come back in the fall, finalize

everything and ideally get them past, you have to remember that there are all kinds of ways that people can affect this process, the budget process in particular, just democrats doing that, republicans can force the senate to stay in overnight. they're working on amendments to try to derail different things. so we're long way from seeing this become law. >> more optimism on police reform. republicans working on a deal say they're optimistic they can announce an agreement before they leave the capital for the fourth of july recess. >> i do think we're making more progress in the last day or two than we have in the last week. so i think we're going to be, you know, headed towards that ted line tomorrow and hopefully that we'll get there on the right side of the issue. i don't think there's outstanding issues that need to be worked out. we need to agree on the language we're using. >> i think everybody wants to get to yes. there's a general framework that

we all sort of conceptually agree to. can it with stand drafting, special interest pressure. time will tell. >> so tim scott, lindsey graham, democrats also working on the proposal sounding more cautious. >> nothing's over until you're looking at written language. and we're not at written language. we can agree to a framework this week. and then while they're gone, it gets written. then we can come back and look at it and say there's an agreement. but i think one thing we can generally say is nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to. >> this negotiation has been civil by washington standards. we've heard from those that have been trying to get something done on this. are you optimistic there will be police reform and where is the sticking point still there? >> we are in contact both with the democrat and we've had a

couple conversations with the republican side. it seems like there is -- they're in the room. the question is are they at the same table, because you get different signs from different sides. let's remember that tomorrow is the sentencing of derek chauvin, the former police officer who was convicted of killing george floyd, we wanted to see a bill before his sentencing. now they're saying maybe before july 4th. we absolutely, in this country, need this bill. even if there's some things that are not on the bill, if the basic core thing the george floyd family -- because the bill is named after george floyd -- would you agree with and the civil rights agencies would you agree with, we would go it. but there are things we don't

want taken out just in the name of bipartisan. so we're watching it, we're optimistic and hopefully, but we're not going to become one that forgets why we're at the table in the first place. >> is it qualified immunity that's still in the middle? >> there must be qualified immunity involved and how you define that clearly we need to deal with. and we must deal with how we deal with the question of police being very transparent in terms of what it is that we define as willful or not willful. there are many areas there are some particular disagreements that you can give or take. but you must have a bill that holds police accountable. we cannot go through a summer or a year again of george floyd, breonna taylor, all of these cases that we saw last year, and come out of it without some clear police reform.

>> see if republicans are willing to bend a little bit on that qualified immunity. this comes as president biden put crime front and center, shootings and murders are rising across the nation. responding to the crisis, hoping to disarm republicans of a talking point that proved effective the last election cycle, the democrats are no longer talking about defunding the police. yesterday, came president biden's new strategy for addressing the surge in gun violence, the president's plan focuses on providing law enforcement with more resources, offering community source and cracking down on people illegally supplying firearms. >> if you willfully sell a gun to someone who's prohibited from possessing it, fail to do a background check, cooperate with

inspections, my message to you is this, we will find you and seek your license to sell guns. we'll make sure you can't sell death and mayhem on our streets. it's an outrage. it has to end and we'll end it, period. this shouldn't be a red or blue issue. it's an american issue. we're not changing the constitution. we're enforcing it, being reasonable. we're taking on bad actors doing bad and dangerous things in our communities and our country. >> yesterday, president biden, who was painted during the campaign by some republicans as a radical leftist announcing he's going to add hundreds of millions of dollars proposed spending to support police and make them better. >> fund the police, not defund the police. the reality is, in every major american city, the reverend knows this, we are living with a

notion of guns, not talking about assault rifles we're talking about handguns. so the president has addressed that. and the entire package that we've been talking about this morning, as jonathan pointed out, a key white house group went up to congress and sat all day yesterday working out whether it's a $1 trillion bill or $1.2 trillion bill. everybody seems cautiously optimistic about something happening on that bill. we've been a long time as a country split, divided politically, where you have people cautiously optimistic about progress being made. i don't know about you, but i have been cautiously optimistic myself about maybe the dam breaking, may not be what everybody wants, what elizabeth warren wants, but something appears to be on the edge of happening. do you think it'll make any difference at all in the way people feel about our politics?

>> you know, i certainly hope so. i think there's a couple things going on, the united states has a gun problem. we have too many guns on our streets so we need federal action to get them off the streets because individual states and cities, like new york, cannot stop the flow of guns from coming into new york city, for example, without federal action. just rational action to prevent bad actors from getting their hands on guns. that's the first thing. the other thing is we should just recognize that people who study violence and crime will tell you right now that it is too soon to know and understand exactly why we were seeing the time spike across the country that we are. but those who have worked on this issue for a long time know -- what they will tell you is that this is not surprising given the level of disruption, trauma, grief, joblessness,

homelessness, and just general upheavel that the united states has gone through, particularly communities of color and people living in poverty across the united states. so we do, i believe, need to make sure that police have the right resources to do the job well. that funding should come with accountability, it should come with reform, and it should also come, i believe, and i don't think that this is that different from what you're seeing from many many people are saying. it should come with some discussion of funding for other things that can help reduce violence and that can include cure violence programs, violence interrupter programs, after school programs, athletic associations, jobs, people need help in their lives to stay away from crime and it's not only police that should be the tool. >> there's no doubt about it.

i think one of the important things about this discussion over the past year, even though it's been difficult at times, the fact that many things are starting to be discussed instead of writing a check to police officers, to police departments, you are also helping services around there and actually doing a big favor for police officers and not making them first responders for everything. not making them mental healthcare first responders in many cases. so i think it's an expansion of discussion, you can talk about giving police departments more money but reform being attached to that, and also funding health care services, much more than they've been funded in the past. it's just something that we, as a country, have to do. and that lightens the load of all of our first responders and helps those who desperately need that help.

kasie, it is interesting that president biden came out yesterday talking about more funding for police officers. it shows a recognition of what we've been saying and what a lot of people have been saying now for about six months now, that as crime goes up, it is a potent issue. it's not -- you know, somebody talked about republicans demagoging this issue. it doesn't matter whether republicans demagogue the issue or not if crime is going up on your street if assault and battery is going up on your street if robbery is going up on your street. you don't need anybody to do a 30 second ad to realize something is wrong. it seems that recognition is really hitting the white house and a lot of other people in ways that perhaps it wasn't just a month or two ago. >> that's right, joe. if you think about what drives a presidential administration or a

presidential campaign in waiting to, you know, focus on a topic that perhaps has not been on the front burner, it's what they're seeing in the numbers. i guarantee you they're seeing -- some of the sources i've spoken to, have seen these numbers, they're out in the communities, polling, and crime has been coming up that list. we saw it clearly in new york, new york is not the rest of the area but this is affecting communities across the board and it's really, as you point out, one of the this most potent political issues. we, for the most part, had crime falling for the course of the last 20, 25 years a lot of people, like myself. i grew up at a time when it was something going away, not coming back. these are going to be people now having their own kids many living in cities trying to figure out what they want to do with their families and it's going to start to impact

people's decision making. i don't think you want to underestimate that at all. it is a significant -- because it's also -- right now democrats are running things. if people see their own community taking a turn for the worst, it may not be about democrats or republicans. it may be i want a change here. >> willie, it's interesting what kasie said about crime and a lot of people experience high rates of crime. of course, new york a couple of years ago at a 50 year low for crime so low they had to go to the 1950s and guess when the crime rates were as low as they were the year before the pandemic. it's fascinating, as we go into next year, there are going to be a generation of politicians who have no idea how to respond to rising crime rates as far as policy goes because they never had to worry about it, and respond to inflation. because as inflation goes up and politicians start panicking

because the price of gas is going up, the price of bread is going up, the price of everything is going up, man that is something that is hard to reverse and it looks like we're moving in that direction. so primes and guns feels like 1975 right now. >> it's instructive to know so far we don't have the final result because of ranked choice voting but in this city of new york, the voters appear to have elected someone who was a new york city police officer for 24 years and that public safety and crime was far and away the number one issue on their minds, according to most polls. the president said this is not a time to turn our backs on law enforcement we need to invest in law enforcement. he talked about municipaliies using the covid money to invest to get jobs for teenagers. >> the advisers of president

biden believe he's well inoculated to the defund the police attack which the republicans have used against a lot of democrats effectively. he came out against that, they think his career in the senate shows support for law enforcement. they do worry about the impact on the party as a whole if crime does continue to rise. typically crime rises every summer, they're worried about this one post pandemic and the white house felt like they had to step in. a lot of things they outlined were suggestions, you should do this, there could be money for it, but they can't make them do it and running into republican resistance, the governor of nebraska saying this is another example they're trying to take our guns. walk us through your sense of it, we know the idea of police reform is important we talked

about it, can the president walk the fine line between hey we need to have police reform and change how communities have relationships with the police but at the same time we need to support police now as crime surges, at least in portions of the country? >> i think he can. the way it came out yesterday is the way they need to continue to go down that path. one of the things i think he was very clear about is he was not going the '94 crime bill way, that some of us, including me, protested. he did not say let's go into big, high incarceration rates and deal with the people on the street that are at the end of the crime. let's go to the core problem, guns, let's deal with it at its root, i think that's important. you have to remember in the communities of color, black and brown, we're the ones where the crime is going up. so the same communities rallying around police reforms are the

ones also saying but do something about the crime. you heard me say, we're afraid of the cops and the robbers. as long as he comes down the middle where we're going to make the cops accountable and we'll get the robbers and the killers, he will have a rallying cry. i think that's what the new york vote and other things show that people of color, people of color, black and brown, victimized by both want answers not locking up their kids for 30 years but locking down the crime with accountable police. >> you're the only person at this table who knows the truth of what we're talking about here. nobody leaves a street, neighborhood or city because trash collection is late today. they leave because of safety, their families, and the schools their kids go to. >> absolutely. i think people who have not lived on those streets, as i grew up on the streets, don't understand you're not anti-police when you say you

don't want police choking people to death and you want to have correct policing and community policing and all of these things, and if you lived on the street you understand that because we are the targets of both. and i think that joe biden, who i think was wrong in '94 and he and i talked about that, he's corrected a lot of that, he began to understand that just locking people up that are the victims' kids are not going to stop the problem. we have to stop the guns, engage the community programs, cure violence programs and at the same time support police that are going to do the same thing. we want our kids to want to be police not to want to run from them. >> we have eric adams in the next hour on this show. we want to go back to the building collapse in miami beach that we told you about at the top of the hour. joining us now core respondent

sam brock. we don't have any word on casualties here, we have firefighters telling the miami herald there are, quote, multiple casualties, what are you hearing? >> reporter: we have not heard anything yet about casualties, but that would not be surprising. we have spoken to residents who say they lost friends, those were their words based on the amount of the building that pancaked. you'll see a normal looking continue minimum building, this side is fine, it's the opposite side facing the ocean, this building contains 130 plus residents. it's the northeast quadrant that collapsed. when you peek around the corner, which i did, you can see an entire row of apartments that are gone. in terms of what percentage of that building we're talking about here, i'm told three or

four lines, a line is a vertical line of units. we're talking 40 units. they have sent an trt, guys that go in during earthquakes and natural disasters to sift through rubble and find people that might be trapped. that's what we're witnessing now. i'm watching a lad ergo balcony to balcony. i heard saws cutting through things, i'm not sure, we're expecting an update at some point this morning. one more thing i'd like to add, in miami after 40 years and this building was put up in 1981, it has to go through a required inspection. i'm told by a resident they were

inspecting the roof of this, not clear if it's related to the collapse or not, we're told they were in the process of inspections for deficiencies. we 'holding our breath that there's not a mass casualty situation, but likely there is. >> this happened at 2:00 in the morning. obviously that building would have been full of people sleeping. sam brock on the scene. we'll come back to you when you get more information. thanks very much. in michigan, a committee led by republican lawmakers publishes a report debunking election fraud. we also play for you what the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, general mark milley,

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the debate over critical race theory boiled over onto capitol hill yesterday as chairman of the joint chiefs of staff of the nation's first black defense secretary testified before the house services committee. two members pressed the leaders about inclusion in the military. >> we don't embrace critical race theory and i think that's a spurious conversation. and so, we are so focused on

extremist behaviors. >> on the issue of critical race theory, et cetera, i'll have to get much smarter on whatever the theory is, but i do think it's important for those of us in uniform to be open minded and be widely read. and the united states military academy is a university. and it's important that we train and we understand -- i want to understand white rage and i'm white and i want to understand it. so what is it that caused thousands of people to assault this building and try to overturn the constitution of the united states of america, what caused that? i want to find that out? i want to maintain an open mind here and analyze it. it's important we understand that. because our soldiers, sailors, marines, they come from the american people so it's important we do understand it. i've read carl marx, lennon, that doesn't make me a

communist, so what is wrong with understanding, having some situational understanding of the country we're here to defend. i find it offensive that we are accusing the united states military, general officers, commissioned, noncommissioned officers of being, quote, woke because we're studying a theory out there started at harvard law school years ago, and there were laws prior to the civil war that led to a power differential and then we had a civil war to change it and brought it up to the civil rights act in 1964, took another 100 years to want to change that. i respect your service we're both green berets, but i want to know. it matters to our discipline. >> they got more than they bargained for when they asked that question.

it had to be difficult for members of the committee sitting there to hear yesterday because so many fanned the flames of the insurrection on january 6th and he was direct in his rebuke there. >> he was correct in trying to figure out the rage that drove people to assault the capitol of the united states of america and shred the constitution of the united states. it's interesting, mike barnicle, when you see a grown up actually in the middle of this miserable, this miserable experience where you have children running around of all ages, acting out and playing to the lowest common denominator. and it's so interesting, mike. you and i grew up in a time period where republicans claimed to revere the military. over the past month we've seen a united states senator circulate

russian propaganda, saying the u.s. military is emasculated. we see a former member of the armed services yesterday attacking the military as woke. just again, just showing complete and utter ignorance. and general milley setting him straight. >> joe, there are so many things about general milley's presentation that was so impressive, among the most impressive was oddly enough the cut away to congressman gaetz shaking his head at general milly's testimony. but general milley spoke from the heart, those were not prepared remarks, unlike the questions that members of congress have from their staff. and general milley was speaking about an institution that's multicolored reflects america in

terms of its composition. people with many races serve in the united states military and general milley was right about wanting to assess where we are in terms of race in this country, what it is that we don't understand. what is critical race theory. i suspect it's not a major an issue as we made it out to be in the media. but what is it about america that brings people together? the military is the one institution where people come together, work together, live together and unfortunately for them, but fortunately for our culture and our country, fight together. and general milley ought to be applauded not only today but every day that he goes to work. >> that was an extraordinarily powerful moment from the general there and should be required viewing. he is someone who was part of donald trump's ill fated photo op through lafayette square and

later apologized for it being the military should not be involved in a political student like that, no other way to call that, other than stunt. but mara i wanted to get you involved on this as well. tell me, from your estimation here, why was yesterday so important? we've heard these attacks, race theory is the shorthand, the gop talking point, and reporting this week that trump advisers feel that could be the key to putting republicans back in power in the midterms of 2022 and perhaps the presidency of 2024, they feel the democrats have fallen in this rabbit hole of wokeness and can't get out of it. but how powerful was that and what sort of message do you think it was, to have him rebuke what happened on january 6th and saying this is the united states armed forces we're here for everybody. >> general milley did something very powerful which is that he cut through the coded speech and

language and rhetoric around critical race theory and started talking about what it actually is to the american people directly. i think that's very important, critical race theory, which was asserted by derrick bell at harvard, all it is is the study of racism and how it has been embedded in america's laws and institutions for generations. and so, the prime example of that, you know, just to throw one out there would be redlining, in which essentially the government itself took out a map and said, because black people live in these neighborhoods, we will not give federal loans to allow americans to buy mortgages in these neighborhoods and everything that followed from that, you can see generation to generation the loss of wealth and capital that took place when that occurred.

that's just one example. so what critical race theory suggests is american racism is not simply the product of individual biases, right, but is actually embedded in the structure of american institutions. that is, by the way, not a theory. that is a fact and a historical fact. we need to talk about about what this is. >> rev what did you think as you watched general milley yesterday? it was extraordinary that he took that moment on that stage to address that audience on that issue? >> i think it's extraordinary because of who he was and how he did it. i really think we cannot under estimate the impact of having a military officer of his stature, who has leaned politically to the left in any way say, i want to know these things. and that we need to know these things. and the history of our blacks were considered less than human, i don't think you could have had a better witness to an audience

that needed to be confronted if they could not be converted. i thought it was one of those moments in history we ought to freeze and play it over and over again. >> even after the hearing some of the insurrectionist congressmen doubled down on their comments. coming up, new effects of the lie of a stolen election. and later, the surgeon general joins us in danger of the delta variant, and what it means to people not vaccinated. "morning joe" is coming right back. le not vaccinated. "morning joe" is coming right back s all about. it's what the united states postal service has always been about. so as your business changes, we're changing with it. with e-commerce that runs at the speed of now. next day and two-day shipping nationwide. same day shipping across town. returns right from the doorstep, and deliveries seven days a week.

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a republican led investigation in the state of michigan found no evidence to support former president donald trump's claims of voter fraud in the 2020 presidential election. the michigan senate is the latest state legislature to

release a report upholding the results of itself election. every member of the committee adopted the report. state oversight committee ed mcbroom said the report aimed to provide answers to people who are looking for them. and certain things that are speculated are not possible. it debunks several fringe election conspiracy theories like a machine error switched votes where absentee ballots were counted were connected to the internet allowing outside people to tamper with results. so here we are again, court after court, now state legislature after state legislature, led by republicans, showing there's no fraud in the 2020 election. >> that's right. trump justice after trump justice has ruled by ruling or

not ruling that there is no systemic voting fraud that changed the outcome of the election. rudy giuliani actually said so in the courtroom. they'd go outside, have press conferences, look at the pleadings and then what they say inside the federal court and wouldn't do anything because they didn't want to lie to a federal judge, they didn't want to be sanctioned. so here we have the state of michigan where i had one -- friends, relatives send one conspiracy theory after another about wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania and all these lies. republicans in michigan, they studied it in depth and they were quite critical of the liars, the conspiracy theorists. and so, they actually put out a report that said, it is all a

lie. there was no widespread voting fraud in the state of michigan, everything was run straight. what's so irritating willie, and i'm sure you heard it and a lot of us heard it, people go on, family members, friends go on, say chinese cult websites and they'll -- literally websites run by chinese cults. and then they'll come to you and, i'm not saying i believe it, look what it says. it's all very trumpy, i don't know somebody is saying this. you disprove that but then wait, somebody is saying that. then we get from that point to where a majority of republicans believe that american democracy is rigged. that's just depressing that they're that stupid and that they hate america that much. they could search for the truth

but they decide they're going to read websites from chinese cultists, russian propgandist and they're going to believe that, instead of the trump judges, rudy giuliani, and now these republican legislatures in michigan. >> it's a bottomless pit of conspiracy theories, people came up to me days after and said why aren't you talking about the italian satellite, the white house chief of staff, mark meadows was pushing the italian satellite theory. i don't know the particulars of it. but we're seeing the cyber ninjas at the behest of the republican controlled senate is rifling through voting machines, they've tested for bamboo,

traces of bamboo on the suspicion of some of the ballots were shipped in from china and it's sponsored by the state legislature there. let's talk about this with jeff greenfield, cofounder of echelon incites. kristin anderson, and robert griffin. good morning to you all. welcome back to new york, jeff. >> nice to be here. >> so looking at the damages the lies can have on future elections reading while every political race generates some degree of distrust among those whose preferred conditioned has lost, the acceptance of that loss, aided by the words and actions of the losing candidate, allows us to move forward. trump's failure to abide by those norms and actively stoking conspiracy and anger with his

supports has many word r worried he's done damage to our democracy. what else does your report tell us? >> thanks for having me. i think it tells us two things one is a familiar story. the familiar story is that people who lose elections, people who are supporters of the losing candidate tend to distrust elections more than the people who supported the winning candidate. that's normal, happens election over election, nothing new there. what is unusual about 2020 is because of this campaign of lies by the president and significant portions of the republican party, we are seeing these unhugely high levels of distrust among republicans this election cycle and we say in the report we think it's a crisis of confidence. this is a significant level of distrust among republicans and now we're eight months out from the election and not seeing these levels dissipate. >> you know, kristin, i'm sure

you saw the same thing coming. i have a lot of republican friends in p georgia, who were worried leading up to the georgia special election. they're saying we wish the president would just shut up because he's going to make the republican voters stay home by saying the voting in georgia is rigged. you talk about the law of unintended consequences the democrats have chuck schumer as majority leader based on republican field workers that i talked to because republicans said it's rigged i'm not wasting my time going out and voting. republican areas, turn out was much lower than it was during the election. >> massive unintended consequences that are rippling throughout the congress because republicans don't have 50 votes. this wasn't, as you know -- this was as you have note in some ways predictable.

president trump said there were fraudulent votes in 2016, so after the election it was not surprising in 2020. one was the narrowness of the win, the fact you had a handful of states where things were very, very close, imagine an election like 2000 where it was just focused on florida but so many other states just as close, that creates a further breeding ground for controversy. but also the length of time the ballots take to get counted. some was driven by covid and the massive spike in mail in votes but you have states like california and new york that always take a long time to count ballots. and you add swing states in, it's not healthy for america that steve kornacki had to be up for hours straight, it's not good that ballots take so long

to count and pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, they need to update their laws to behave like florida which has had mail-in voting but they count the voting fast, creates less time for the nonsense to fester. >> willie, that is such a great point and it's such a great point that we made it in the days leading up to the election. and we made it because the republican legislatures in pennsylvania, michigan, and wisconsin refused to allow the ballots to be counted early. the absentee ballots to be counted early. they were being pushed so we could know who the winner was election night. and we said, before the election, go get the tape, we said before the election by them doing this, this is going to

allow them to drag out these states where trump may be able to keep it closer with early votes. and kristin's exactly right. if they had listened to a lot of election reformers, and if michigan, wisconsin, and pennsylvania would have -- if those republican-legislatures would have done what the democratic governors asked hem to do and others asked them to do by letting them count their absentee ballots early like ron desantis and other governors have in the past that biden won michigan by 10:00 that night, wisconsin probably by midnight, they would have known he won pennsylvania maybe by early the next morning. but they refused to do it despite the fact that we were warning them and other people were warning them that it was going to cause chaos. >> and that long count didn't

change the votes but it gave time and space as kristin said for these conspiracy theories to fester. there's an entire media ecosystem, an entire wing of the republican party who continues this day to feed the lie. >> it goes back five years, back to trump's first election. the only way i can lose is it's rigged. when he told lessee stall, the reason i attack you, when you print negative stories about me my people won't believe you. he has convinced not just a large majority of republicans that the election was stolen but in state after state, the people in the republican party and the state legislatures in effect are doing his bidding by putting in new rules, new restrictions on voting, most important changing how the vote will be counted and who will be counting and who will be certifying so if the

2020 election happens again with the same result, it's likely states will not certify narrow democratic wins. it's one thing to say it's a big lie and this was remarkable of the michigan republicans to say, wait a minute, this is nonsense. there weren't 15,000 dead people voting, there were two cases and they were both faulty. i think you have to give trump credit, he succeeded in doing what he led out to do. >> he was on television two days ago, saying i do not concede this race. if you believe and follow donald trump to the end of earth you're going to listen to what he says. you've seen a lot throughout the years. how perilous is this moment? as we're talking about what's happening in the state legislature, it's not on the front end, the back end. >> that's what the voting rights legislation was that the

democrats missed. it had nothing to do with post election counting. i used to write alternate history, this isn't. it's possible they would knock out enough votes to throw it into the house where under the system the republican would win. so i -- you know, i'm not alarmist but this is alarming. >> what's now? we are seeing that -- we know the seeds of doubt have been planted. we see what's happening. are there anything that democrats or good government minded republicans can do to ward this off? to jeff's point, there is a real scenario, particularly if the republicans capture the house next year they won't certify the result in 2024 if democrats put up a victory? what can democrats be doing right now to prevent that scenario? >> i think for democrats or

republicans, anybody that's looking at the last election saying we have to do things differently. joe talked about how there were a lot of states you could have passed changes ahead of time to make the process work better, they didn't. we've seen the consequences of it. doesn't mean you can't take that action now, especially now since you have donald trump having used his megaphone to say we need to count these ballots faster. you now have a better case to make to many of these republicans who may have done the wrong thing, not pushed for these laws and say even donald trump said we need to count ballots quickly, why are you against something that donald trump said is important? try to invert the dynamic so the states are making sure the ballots are not dragged out so in future elections bad actors don't have as much of an opportunity to try to pounce. >> does it mean, after listening to jeff here, that part of the messaging that democrats will have or should have, is that if

the we don't win by large margins and we risk going into a republican dominated house we will not be able to stop them from not certifying elections and therefore, the whole process of a democratic election begins to collapse in this country? >> i think it's a -- i think it's a real concern that people should have. i don't know about the messaging of it. you have to think about some of the complex effects that might have. you can diskorj people from wanting to participate because things seem hopeless. but a point, in november again, in our survey, 46% of republicans said it would be appropriate if republican controlled state legislatures assigned votes to trump where biden had won. this is a substantial portion of the party that is supportive of something that's a departure of common electoral norms in the

united states. these are real dangers and live wires that we're dealing with. >> that is a radical departure from what some of us call western democracy, it's just in -- it's absolute insanity that we're talking about it in the greatest country in the world. but there are actually people who are talking about that. and want to depart from 240 years of american exceptionalism. it's crazy. kristin, just to talk about sort of the madness that has impacted main stream republican politicians you and i are both from florida. i voted in florida this past year. it was, without a doubt, the most efficient election i've ever seen in my life. i'm a politician, it's like once a politician, always a politician election day i

nervously go and go from one precinct to another, and i just love to see it, i love to see how many people are there, how long the lines are. ghost towns everywhere. because everybody had already voted. you could literally go up and every precinct i went to, you could go up and just vote. and i sat there going my gosh this is extraordinary how efficient florida is, with knew who the winner was, even though the networks didn't call it we knew the winners by 8:00, 9:00 at night. and yet the legislature and governor feels a need we must reform our election system. that's like steve jobs a year after the iphone, i must reform the iphone. no, it worked well. but it shows you the madness of this. >> you want to talk about unintended consequences, florida is a state where the state

republican party had been good marshalling support, getting seniors to do mail-in voting. the state republican party was good at using -- not to boil this down to political outcomes but things can have unintended consequences. florida, since 2000, has been a model of how to do this in part, and i'm borrowing the words of a democratic strategist who i adore. it's like that insurance company we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. florida saw a lot in 2000 and came out the better for it. so i'm hopeful in states that things did not go well, it took a long time to count or there was controversy, that this wakes people up to the need to make reforms to make the system stronger just like florida did after 2000. >> that's what's so bizarre when trump is attacking mail-in

voting, i ran for congress four times and ran up huge leads with the absentee votes, focused on it nonstop. picked up the phone and i would call active duty service people overseas and i say, i appreciate your vote. it was that important to republicans. man we'll run up the tallies beforehand even if we don't do so great day of and trump undercut that. it was crazy. >> i remember as far back as 1982, the republicans won a governorship by sending out -- it was all legal -- preprinted absentee forms so their voters could mail in. this has not been mentioned, so i will. it's astonishing to me that one of our two great political partis' entire strategy rests on their inability to not win the popular vote. the republicans won popular vote

from '52 to '88 seven times. but now you have like newt gingrich, it's all those people in new york or california, and i have a suspicion what he means. if we can get the margins in the big states with the help of some, you know, voting restrictions and the help of some creative accounting, we'll take the presidency through the electoral college. and i find that despairing. >> and their attempts to overturn the election have been an abject failure on every level. so they're trying to put people in place who can change that strategy. jeff and kristin, thank you both. robert, bringing that new report to us as well. thank you. the latest on breaking news we've been covering out of south florida. these are live pictures. nbc news learned now at least one person has died after the

partial collapse of a building in miami-dade county, dozens of rescue crews continue to search the rubble trying to find anyone who may be trapped there. video shows a large section of a multi-story building collapsed into a pile of rubble in surf side, just outside of miami beach. at least ten people were treated at the scene, dozens displaced, some 50 hotel rooms next door were evacuated as well. now there's concern for the safety of the fire crews responding. we don't know the cause but it happened at 2:00 in the morning in surf side. it's a 40-year-old building. sam brock telling us last hour there was an investigation taking place over a permit in the last several days, don't enjoy if those things are connected to that collapse. we can confirm at least one person has died. we'll keep you updated a we get

news there. now to crime as shootings and murders rise across the country. hoping to disarm republicans of a talking point that proved effective in the last election, democratic leaders are no longer talking about defunding the police. eric adams in new york city, made fighting crime the centerpiece of his campaign. and yesterday president biden, focussing on providing law enforcement with more resources, offering community support and cracking down on people illegally supplying firearms as the country deals with gun violence. gabe gutierrez has a look at how children have been impacted and in many cases caught in the cross fire. >> reporter: while so many adults are becoming victims of violent crime, so many children are now in the line of fire too.

>> we have a number of evil predators in our community that are focussing on our children. that are firing weapons, and enough is enough. >> reporter: in an apparent case of mistaken identity, police say a gunman opened fire on the wrong truck on the freeway killing a 2-year-old and wounding his 9-year-old brother. >> it's crazy. they had no intentions on any of us surviving that. >> reporter: the family had been driving home from basketball practice. >> he was only here two years but the mark he left on my heart, that'll be with me until the day i die. >> reporter: so far this year gun violence has killed more than 700 children and teenagers nationwide. more than 1,800 have been injured. in new york an attack in broad

daylight, one man opening fire on another in the bronx missing children by inches. the father said they're traumatized. he urged the president and congress to do what they can to stop the violence. >> it's scary, i want him to go outside. >> gabe gutierrez reporting for us first. we mentioned eric adams, he joins us now. good to see you this morning as of the first round of voting in the primary on tuesday you hold a 10 point lead in this race, are you confident that lead will hold up as we go through theaced choice voting system? >> yes, i am. i feel comfortable with it. it's good to get back to a full time with -- but we're going to let the process play its way out. >> mr. adams what do you lead into this lead? we're not calling it a victory because it's not we have counting to do, app absentee

ballots have to come in. a lot of analysts are looking at this, seeing the rise in crime across the nation, seeing a former new york city cop has a 10 point lead at this point in the race, what do you read into that number? >> what america is stating, not only was i a police officer, but i was arrested and assaulted by police officers but i went into the department for reform but also for safety because i lost friends in the crack wars in the '80s and '90s. so i had the unique combination of the justice we deserve, the safety we need. that resonated with voters. the number of children and families losing their livesviol. it's time for the democratic party to mantle and state it's not only assault weapons, it's the handgun. the overproliferation of

handguns in black and brown communities in america is creating a crisis. i thought it interesting that you won every borough, except manhattan where crime rates are lower than in some of the other boroughs. it's a clear message for people in areas more affected by crime, they want police reform but they also want more police in their kids' schools and on their kids' streets. it seems your campaign spoke to that and was rewarded for it. >> well said. it's unfortunate that i think a numerical minority that basically live in safe spaces don't understand what's happening in the city. think about this, 95% of victims of shootings are black and brown

in new york. 95% of the shooters are black and brown. so this problem, i believe, has been ignored because we made up our mind that is not a crisis because of the demographics of the victims. i said no to that. i put control of the streets as a police officer, i know what it is to sit in the living room with family members experiencing this trauma and i refuse to just bow to those who did not want to address this issue and i addressed it head on and i think people of the city realized i was a person that could make the city safe. >> eric, reverend al sharpton, you and i have gone back 35 years even though willie said we can't call it a victory, my daughter ashley who supported you told me it was a victory, even though i stayed out of it. we've worked together on police reform, you've been there as a policeman, you signed the incorporation paper when i started national action network

30 years ago. we've been there painting crack houses, exposing where they were in the '80s. what type of police commissioner, if you are successful, if you pass through the process and you're the democratic nominee and beat the republican contender, what type of police commissioner would you be looking for to carry out this vision you laid out in the campaign? and secondly, would you be open to reaching out to some of your opponents, like katherine garcia in the obama style of reading the book team of rivals to bring some of your opponents into the campaign -- or rather into your administration to unify the city at a time we're seeing an up tick in violence and police issues. >> great question. and how long we've been fighting this fight, the balance of safety and justice. to answer the first one of the first books i read on the

campaign trail was lincoln's team of rivals, bring them in. great ideas come from different places. i believe diane morales is correct when she talks about the mental health aspect. 48% of the men and women in riker's island have mental health illnesses. we should all come together, i need to be a unifier. second, the type of police commissioner. i want the character of the person. far too often we only looked at their ability to make arrests and apprehensions. we need to look at the ecosystem of public safety, and that should include people like your daughter, that's why i was proud to have her on my campaign. these young people have ideas on prevention of crime. i'm going to have long-term plans and i need the youth in the city and country really get in the area of preventing crime

in the first place and that's the combination i'm going to bring as the mayor of the city. >> eric it's jonathan lemire, you don't take office for quite some time if you hold this lead. but you heard president biden outline his vision, a national strategy to battle this rise in crime we're seeing in at lo of portions in the united states right now, including some big cities. i want to get your reaction to it and tick through some of the things he proposed. it is using covid relief funds and others to create like afterschool programs to keep people away from violence. the nypd, do you think its head count is where it is good or does it need to grow? how do you balance that with police reform and changing the police officers and the communities they can protect? >> great question. i take my hat off to the

president for addressing this head on. second, we have ignored the crisis, much of what we are doing on a federal level is dealing with assault rivals, because of the mass shooters. and that is a suburban crisis. the crisis in the inner city, that consists of handguns. we have not focused on the handguns. that's where you see the large number of shootings and the victims are black and brown and we have ignored it. a third, as i stated, we must change the ecosystem of public safety. you know what's a great crime fighting tool? dyslexia screening in every school. 30% of our prison population are dislexic. they have a learning disability. if you don't educate, you will incarcerate. 80% of the inmates at riker's

island don't have a high school diploma. the crime is what takes place in our educational system every day to black and brown children in this city and country. 65% of black and brown children in new york don't meet proficiency every year. we know they're going on a pathway of crime and i'm going to stop that from happening. >> susan dell pierce owe is here with a question. susan? >> good morning, mr. adams. >> morning. >> yes, a new york state supreme court judge struck down the law banning chokeholds that was passed by the new york city council and signed into law by mayor de blasio last year. looks like there's some work to be done there. do you support revising that bill? it was struck down because it was too vague. would you get behind a revision of that bill? >> yes, i would get behind a revision of the bill. i know what it is to try to wrestle a knife out of someone's

hand or see a person that i'm trying to apprehend because they have a pipe or a very dangerous instrument, an ice pick or something like that. let's be clear here, we did not -- the city council did not sit down with law enforcement advocates and professionals like the national black police association, the guardians and others to craft a smart bill. i'm opposed to the choke hold. but when you say you cannot touch someone's chest area or lean someone's chest area. it's just not realistic. when you are fighting for life and death of a civilian, to protect someone, and that bill was not the proper steps we should have takenen we need to sit down with tactical experts, with people who understand how to properly subdue someone

that's how you go about getting the justice you deserve with the safety you need. >> let me ask you about cash bail. the new york city police commissioner says again and again that the revolving door, they make a gun arrest, then that person is released and they see the person a few days later committing a crime. some experts who study cash bail disagree with him on that point. where do you come down on that issue? >> both sides are correct. i think we need to move from a place that says this is only black and white. no, there's shades of gray here. you have to look at the individual. you have a person who has several possessions for firearms, he needs to be incarcerated. obvious that person is not going to change his behavior without time in our correctional facilities. you have a person one time, did not use the weapon but a possession, then you could have

a conversation about, can we put this person on the right pathway? but that's not what's happening here. number one, too many people being released that are dangerous to the safety of our city and then number two, many judges are not placing bail on cases that they could place bail on. that is a problem. and when i looked at the first list of no bail, i told my state lawmakers that you have the wrong crimes on this list. that first list included burglary and robbery and possession of weapons on school grounds. you cannot do anything that's going to jeopardize public safety. public safety and justice is the prerequisite to prosperity. i think we have become too symbolic on how we keep cities safe. it's time for the democratic party to understand this, america wants to be safe and we can do it with justice at the same time. >> before we let you go, i think a lot of us are learning about

ranked choice voting. the biggest place this has been done in our country for sure. when do you expect to know the final results? some people are saying a couple weeks, some say the middle of july, when do you think you'll know if you're the next mayor of new york city? >> your guest is as good as mine. we're hearing sometime july, i look forward to the process and to representing this great city and getting our name back of how we're going to grow our economy, be a safe place, because without safety, america, we are not going to recover from covid. and when you do an analysis where the violence is coming from, it's clear it's black and brown communities and i'm going to show how to have a safe city and it's going to cascade across america. we are going to be the city it's going to be. >> eric adams who leads the race by 10 points right now at some

point will know if you're the next mayor of new york city. willie, just listening to eric adams speak, you sense a real change from where the discussion has been over the past two, three, four years among some democratic politicians in new york city. i actually, when you asked him about cash bail and there has to be bail reform, that needs to be continuing process as he said and there has to be a compromise to it. but there has been, you talked to new york city residents, there's been a revolving door over the past six months for some crimes that it's just insanity. as he said, you're just inviting criminals back on the street to commit more crimes. but this quote, public justice and safety is a prerequisite to a prosperous society. a great quote and certainly just that man saying what he just

said has to be a great relief to a lot of people in new york city that have been in areas that had been afflicted by rising rates of crime. >> and rev, a relief to new york city police officers who make the gun arrests day after day and then see a lot of the same people on the street three days, four days later. >> and a lot of relief to the people who live on the streets they're put back on. that's what i think eric adams' message resonates with. yes, the police they see the same people but imagine the people that live on those streets that are seeing the same people that they were running from or they were assaulted by. so it works both ways and i think the more we understand that we are facing the same problem and not becoming part of the same problem, i think that we can get to the end of this and solve it and bring the city back at the same time. >> and the headline your

daughter has already called the race for eric adams. >> she doesn't care what i say. >> what do you read into his lead and the likelihood that he's the next mayor. >> it's a likelihood but another monkey wrench into this. >> okay. >> the algorithm approved just over three weeks ago by the state to allow the city to use it, that's when we were talking about warehouses, it's never been used before and certainly not on this size. so assuming everything goes perfectly and in my 30 years i've never seen a new york city election go perfectly, we may know by the end of january 16th -- i'm sorry, july. july. >> scared me for a second there. >> july. just keep in mind they will not be running that tabulation until next tuesday because they have to take in the early votes. so there's a lot riding on next tuesday. that's what i'm looking for, to

see how this shakes out. >> it's crazy just listening to what susan just said and the conversation we had earlier with our panel talking about how some of these conspiracy theorists and some of these chinese cult websites have been saying because it took a week or so for some states to count their voting that martians came to this earth and rigged voting. they obvious don't see how voting goes every two years in new york city. it is insanity. susan just said, we may know who won an election that was voted on june 22nd, sometime in july. we may. we may not. it goes back to, again, when i said time and again, the west chester district attorney's race, mimi rocah, that mimi

rocah was in, i would every three weeks go, i wonder if mimi won. i go there and be like 3% of the vote counted. like three weeks later, i wonder if mimi won. go back, 5% of the vote counted. it is new york city, it is sheer insanity. but to suggest that aliens somehow impacted the voting in the upper midwest because they took a couple days to count the ballots is insanity. >> we'll know if they're looking for bamboo in the ballots. >> i just got it in my ear mimi rocah was declared the winner of that race. the first sentence handed down in the january 6th capitol riot. the defendant gets probation. what that means for others charged that day. and dr. vivek murthy joins us with growing concerns of the

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similar to the situation in the uk, the delta variant is currently the greatest threat in the u.s. to our attempt to eliminate covid-19. good news, our vaccines are effective against the delta variant. conclusion, we have the tools, so let's use them and crush the outbreak. >> that is dr. anthony fauci warning about the rising threat posed by the so-called delta variant. joining us now, the surgeon general of the united states, dr. vivek murthy. good to see you this morning. tell us more about this delta

variant. we've been hearing about it more and more the last couple of weeks. the bottom line seems to be as dr. fauci said, it's dangerous but if you are vaccinated you're safe against it. >> it's good to see you as well. the delta variant is a great source of concern. it is a variant of covid-19 that is significantly more transmissible and may, in fact, be more dangerous in terms of causing severe disease and even the alpha variant or the b 1 variant we were dealing with earlier this year and the version of covid we were dealing with the past year. if you were vaccinated the good news is you are in good shape because the vaccines have shown to be effective, specifically the mrna vaccines and we believe the johnson & johnson will be effective against this variant. if you are not vaccinated, that's concerning because this

version spreads more easily than the other variants. the delta variant is now more than 20% of cases here in the united states. that has risen rapidly. so the key message here is get vaccinated quickly. it's the safest way to protect against the delta variant and other variants we have seen. >> on the question of vaccinations. it does seem like the country has bumped up against a ceiling here where the white house and you all hoped to get to 70% by the fourth of july. the white house announcing it was going to fall short of that number. you have southern states where 28, 32% of people have been vaccinated. at this point it feels like anybody who wants to be vaccinated there's no excuse not to. there are all these incentives state by state for people to get it. how do you tell somebody who said i'm not going to do it to get vaccinated? >> willie, that's a really good question. i want to say looking at the

larger arc of the vaccination effort we've come a long way. administered nearly 320 million doses of the vaccine in people 30 and up. we have about 70% of the population vaccinated. we're going to -- we're going to need to do more work in the 18 to 26 population in particular. but here's what we're learning about why people are not getting vaccinated. for some people it's an issue of access, that access is becoming much easier now. for some people it's a question of motivation. there are some people is it important for me to get vaccinated as i see cases come down, the answer is yes, the delta variant is one reason. the other reason is really misinformation. we know two thirds of people unvaccinated say they believe the myths out there about the vaccine may be true. so we have to do more to make sure the misinformation spread on social media and other means is countered by trusted voices in communities that's why we're

mobilizing and working with doctors and nurses and faith leaders in communities to make sure that people get the right information to make the right decision for their health. >> willie is right that any adult american who wants to get a vaccine can get one but one population that can't get r, of course, are children. can you give us an update as to the latest thinking of how much of a worry the delta variant poses towards children and what's the latest in terms of the timetable as to when children might expect to be vaccinated? >> john, i appreciate that question because i'm the dad of two young kids, three and four, so they're too young to get vaccinated right now. so i think about this all the time. here's what i would say, there's a narrative out there kids don't have to wore about covid-19. i would defer with that. i would say, in fact, we've seen many children be infected by covid and by and large they do much better than adults we've

seen many children hospitalized, a small number of children who have died from covid-19. we have many young people who have actually struggled with long covid symptoms, shortness of breath, fatigue, headaches and other symptoms that linger for months after the infection. and with the vaccine we have a chance to take low risk of outcomes and make it lower. we know the delta variant is spreading rapidly in unvaccinated populations, including kids. every time we get vaccinated, we form part of a wall against this infection and that wall protects our children who can't get vaccinated if they're under 12. that's why it's important for all of us to step up and get vaccinated because we'll build that community of immunity that protects the most vulnerable and that includes our children. >> on vaccines, if you were fortunate enough to receive a vaccine, whether it's pfizer or moderna early enough in january

or february, what is the shelf life for the vaccine with the variants out there, and will there be an opportunity or a possibility that people will have to get booster vaccines? >> mike, that's a great question. the good news is that what we've seen so far is that the immunity, the protection you get from the vaccines seems to last at least six months and likely many months beyond that. the truth is, time will tell how long the protection lasts whether it's a year, multiple years. we're following cohorts of people who have received the vaccine, including nursing home residents, people who are imknow compromised, seniors, to understand if there's any uptick of infections among them as time progresses and if so we will be ready for boosters. we're working on securing the supply for that. we're just waiting for data and time will tell whether boosters are needed.

>> good morning. my question is based on vaccine hesitancy and some problems with the rollout of the johnson & johnson vaccine, there was an issue with blood clots it was held back for a while. there's been production concerns. because it's a one and done shot people thought this would be helpful in getting to maybe those people who wouldn't -- you know, younger people especially who didn't want to be bothered with two shots. is there any discussion of rebranding, doing something to make it more available to, especially, younger people? >> susan, that's a really good question. you're right, the johnson & johnson vaccine, one of the promises and it's appealing to people is that it's a one-dose vaccine we have people still getting that vaccine each and every day. the challenge with johnson & johnson is not supply. we have adequate supply in many states around this. what we need to do is make sure that people understand the data

that by and large the johnson & johnson vaccine has proven to be very effective and the safety concerns were rare side effects of these dangerous blood clots and they -- one of the most challenging things i would say for us to convey to people and for us as human beings to grapple with is a risk of action versus inaction. and sometimes as human beings we overate the risk of action, and under wait the risk of not getting vaccinated. but what the experience of the last year plus has taught us is the risk of getting covid, likely to do if you're unvaccinated and exposed, is significant in terms of cardiac complications and other organs impacted like your lungs and kidneys. we learned that. we paid the toll with more than 600,000 of our loved ones lost. what we've seen time and time again, whether you're a senior

or adolescent, the risk of getting the vaccine significantly outweigh any of the rare risks we're finding with the vaccine that's why we're recommending it for people 12 and up. >> the bottom line, whether it's the delta variant or any other variant that comes down the pipe, you will be safe. dr. vivek murthy thank you for your time this morning. coming up next, several big stories to discuss with our legal panel, including yesterday's supreme court decision in favor of a cheer leader who had been punished because of a vulgar post on snapchat. "morning joe" is coming back in a moment. oe" is coming back in a moment

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's 7:45 on a beautiful summer day here in new york city. in a rare public appearance in

court, grammy award winning singer super star britney spears made a plea yesterday to regain control of her life. if you haven't followed the story, it's fascinated. >> reporter: after years of speculation, britney spears is speaking out in court, appearing remotely asking the judge to end her conservatorship saying i want my life back it's been 13 years, it's enough. her anger apparent saying i've been in denial. i've been in shock. i'm traumatized. the pop singer was emotional recalling a tour when she said she wanted to take a break, she was put on lithium. telling the judge i felt drunk, i was scared. for 13 years her father has been the head of the conservatorship

for his daughter. britney wants her father out, telling a judge, he loved the control to hurt his own daughter 100000%. he loved it. according to court documents from p 2016, obtained by "the new york times," but not reviewed by nbc news. she told an investigator it had become anno press sieve and controlling tool against her. controlling everything from who she dated to the color of her kitchen cabinets. fans believing she sends them cryptic messages. >> i'm having fun right now. >> a court ordered the conservatorship in 2008 after the star was placed on two involuntary psychiatric holds following a breakdown. her father's role has been diminished recently. an attorney for jamie spears said in court he's sorry to see

his daughter suffering and in so much pain he loves his daughter and missing her very much. >> joining us now, boston globe columnist, kimberly atkins, a former trial attorney, and state attorney for palm beach county dave aaronburg. >> what exactly is a conservatorship, and you read through the details and it's shocking that someone as famous and powerful and wealthy and in control of what she does with her life has to ask her father if she can change the color of the kitchen cabinets and much worse. give us the details on this. >> a conservatorship is something put in place when somebody has the physical or mental incapacity to take care of their own affairs. you may see it if someone is

advanced in age or getting dementia or alzheimer's you'll see a conservatorship put in place in order to handle that person's finances. here it took place at a time when britney spears herself was young, she had issues she dealt with publicly and it was put in place then. but it's unusual for this kind of arrangement to stay in place for 13 years for someone who is otherwise an able, healthy adult, who has been working and not just working but pulling in millions of dollars performing. but otherwise basically via court order deemed unable to actually take care of herself and function as an adult. what you saw her saying is that she really wants this to end. the problem with this is it's easier to put a conservatorship in place than for the person covered to get out of it. you saw her calling for the laws to change. she really is going to have to prove that she is able to handle her own affairs but it's more

difficult because these arrangements are usually put in place to last for the duration. so they're hard to get out of. >> dave, 13 years seems like an awful long time for this not to be reviewed before. and add to that, she's been bee tens of millions of dollars over that time. so how can you justify, a, the length of this situation, and b, claim that she's not capable when she's able to make tens of millions of dollars that she can't spend on kitchen cabinets, for example? >> good morning, susan. it's been the contention of her father's lawyers that britney spears always had the ability to terminate the conservatorship. all she had to do was file a petition through her lawyers. she never did in 13 years. i think that could be considered by the tact the original judge in the case refused to allow britney to choose her own lawyer. she said britney was not capable

of picking a lawyer, so she had a lawyer appointed for her. that may be a reason why that lawyer never petitioned the court to end the conservatorship, and wi we never heard from britney publicly about it until yesterday. these conservatorships are supposed to protect the individual, the subject of the conservatorship and to help them regain independence, but here, it seemed like it had the opposite effect. a forced iud to prevent her from getting pregnant. that's crazy. so i just have to believe that something really squirrely and unusual is going on here that is long overdue that this conservatorship starts wrapping up. especially as you say, because she's been making millions of dollars on her tours, on her albums, all the while, according it the court, she couldn't take care of herself. at least now, we have clarity. this is the first time we publicly heard from her, herself, instead of her words through her court appointed lawyer. although it's true, as kimberly,

this won't instantly end the conservatorship. if the court is end her father's role in the conservatorship, that would go a long way towards ending the conservatorship altogether. >> dave mentioned an iud. here's what she testified to in court. i want to be able to get married and have a baby. i'm told i'm not able to get married or have a baby. she wanted to remove her birth control device, quote, so i can try to have a baby, but this so-called team won't take me to the doctor to take it out because they don't want me to have any more children. that's testimony yesterday. >> let's turn to the supreme court ruling that a pennsylvania school district violated the first amendment rights of cheerleader brandy leavy when they removed her from the squad for a profanity laced snapchat message. in an 8-1 message, they said the school's punishment was too severe, but they didn't

establish a categorical ban on regulating speech outside of school, citing the need of school systems to be able to deal with bullying and threats. kimberly, what did you read into this case and this decision? >> it seems the supreme court really took a rational, commonsense approach here. reaffirming the fact that this student has a first amendment right to speak even if it's dropping f-bombs in a convenience store and on snapchat. but at the same time, preserving the rights of schools and school organizations to be able not only to punish students for certain conduct that they might do that's disruptive to the class, put also protect against things like cyberbullying. it doesn't tie the school's hands. that was one concern leading into this case, if she were to have won. but it said in this case, look, she did something. it wasn't directed at anybody. she used some bad language on snapchat. she was angry because she didn't make the varsity squad. punishing her for that is a

violation of the first amendment, and justice stephen breyer made the point in his opinion in saying look, the first amendment and constitutionality are things we should be teaching our students. we should teach them the importance of free speech and those protections as opposed to violating them in their punishment of students. so it was a pretty straightforward commonsense solution to this opinion. >> yeah, again, an 8-1 ruling by the supreme court. >> meanwhile, a 49-year-old woman from indiana became the first person involved in the capitol attack to be sentenced. anna morgan lloyd pled guilty to a single charge of illegally demonstrating in the capitol building. she was sentenced to three years probation, 120 hours of community service, and a restitution payment of $500. jonathan lemire, this may be the first in a preview of coming attractions for about 500 people already arrested. >> first, certainly not the last, willie. and dave, on our previous case,

i'll note, there's no greater defender of the right to use vulgarity than mike barnicle, but i'm curious to get your take. it's community service, probation, no time in prison. what sort of template is being established here? we're going to be so many more, as willie said, of these sentences in the weeks, months ahead. is this where people are going to end up or should we expect longer, more severe punishments for those who did more? >> i think this is a one off. i think you're going to see stronger punishments for future defendants. i think all rioters deserve jail time, so i disagree with the judge's decision, but i'm not too upset, because she does seem like an outlier. she only spent ten minutes in the capitol, didn't commit any violence. she expressed remorse. and she was one of the first through the prosecutor's door to cut a deal, and if you're a

prosecutor, the first in is the first to win. the first one through the door gets the best deal. more importantly, though, is the judge's statements at the sentencing hearing. that's why i'm not really upset about this, because this reagan appointed judge called out republican lawmakers and republican pundits for whitewashing the insurrection. if this is the start of calling out people for the big lie and using the defendant's own words to tell the truth about what happened, that it wasn't antifa. it wasn't the fbi. it wasn't a bunch of tourists. maybe that can be an antidote to the disease of misinformation that continues to be peddled by self-interested politicians. >> as dave said, these cases are all different. her case is much different fran someone who was beating up a police officer with a flag pole. dave and kimberly, ticking through our legal docket with us this morning. good to see you. >> still ahead, former president bill clinton wades into the

debate over the senate filibuster. plus, how president biden plans to crack down on illegal firearms. "morning joe" is coming right back. i'm here and suddenly... ...my migraine takes me somewhere else. where there's pain, and nausea. but excedrin pulls me back in a way others don't. and it relieves my symptoms fast for real migraine relief.

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joe." it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. out west. let's start with a potential breakthrough on bipartisan infrastructure talks. the group of senators negotiating a package has agreed to a framework and will head to the white house today to meet with president biden. specific of the deal including how it would be paid for have not yet been released. lawmakers did seem optimistic when they left a closed-door meeting with white house officials last night. >> republicans and democrats have come together along with the white house, and we have agreed on a framework, and we're

going to be heading to the white house tomorrow. >> let's bring in capitol hill correspondent, host of way too early, covering the twists and turns, kasie hunt, also mike barnicle, white house reporter for the associated press, john thulumere, the host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton, and member of "the new york times" editorial board, mara gay. mika has the morning off. joe. >> kasie hunt, you never really know if we're going to get to the end of the deal here, but right now, signals are pretty good. the white house did have participants inside those meetings monitoring them and following along with them. joe biden says he still needs to look at the deal, but it looks like they're moving closer. what can you tell us? >> it does look that way, joe. and this sort of late-night meetings, both on two tracks really, the bipartisan talks and then as well, discussions between the house speaker, nancy

pelosi, and the democratic leader, chuck schumer, because there are a lot of pieces to this puzzle if we're going to get the entire thing through. and that's because democrats are saying they really only want to do the bipartisan deal if they know they're going to have the votes they need to move a bigger reconciliation bill later on with just democratic votes. so this is, though, i think, a pretty critical breakthrough here, that they seem to have decided, okay, we are basically on the same page. now, there still are some details in terms of how to pay for it that could snag things up. but this, i think, is something that the white house has been anxious to find. i think that they have been, you know, they have held firm and confident in this strategy to say no, we want to do something bipartisan, the american people want us to work together and do something bipartisan. and now they're optimistic they can get there. then again, the challenge is going to be okay, for every -- what do republicans do?

does mitch mcconnell say yes, i agree, this is a good plan, because if he were to come out and say i don't want oo do that, it could potentially cause problems. because of that reality, democrats need to make sure they have all of their people in line and this is, of course, with joe manchin and kyrsten sinema question. there are democrats behind the scenes saying i want a commitment that joe manchin is going to vote for this reconciliation package if you want me to sign on to that. >> and joe manchin is not going to do that. they can keep asking him, but that's not going to happen. everybody is going to take all of these one bill at a time, and it's really, jonathan lemire, up to the white house and other members of the democratic caucus, especially in the senate, to figure out whether this bill standing on its own is worth their vote or not. it's a long shot from what they wanted. but you know, it is a first step. what are you hearing at the white house? >> certainly, joe, it's far less than what the president initially outlined. he wanted almost $2 trillion.

this is a shade under $1 trillion, but it's an increase of about $500 billion in spending from the initial republican proposal, so the white house is encouraged by that. as kasie said, a lot of details are still being worked out, including some of the pay-fors. we know the key mechanism appears to be increased irs enforcement, going after people who have not been paying taxes. there was a belief that will lead to a lot more money in the years ahead, and both sides seem okay with that. each side also has a red line that at least for now, the opposing party is respecting. the republicans didn't want to touch the 2017 tax cut. looks like they won't. while president biden wanted to make sure no one who was making less than $400,000 would feel their taxes go up. it seems like that's going to happen, too, including the gas tax, which had debate in recent days. we know how much the white house has poured an incredible amount of energy into getting this done in a bipartisan fashion.

joe biden also knows since getting into office, that he needs to be able to show progress on a bipartisan fashion to keep some democrats in line, and we know manchin and sinema and others. and they're encouraged. obviously, it's not done until the president says it's done. he'll be reviewing it today. we expect to hear from him later today. as you said, his top negotiators were over on the hill last night. they're being kept apprised of what is going on. there's a sense of optimism they're not quite over the finish line yet, but they can get there. >> willie, if you look at the poll numbers. in just about every poll that comes out, americans desperately want bipartisan compromise. they'll take a little less if it's a bipartisan bill. >> it's amazing where the $1 trillion price tag seems like the deal, the lowball number on infrastructure. kasie, i'm also looking at the calendar. coming up on the fourth of july recess, then everybody comes back to d.c. for a few days and then we're off for the summer.

how quickly can they move? because these are massive deals to negotiate to begin with. you mix in the fact we're getting into summer when congress isn't really around, what does the schedule look like here? >> it's going to be a bit of a rush, willie. they're saying that they want to vote on both of these things, so the bipartisan bill and a democrats only reconciliation package in july, which as you point out, there are very few days in july when they're even all going to be here to be able to pull something like that off. and this is, of course, a deal that democrats are basically saying, look, we have to do it this way or we're not going to have the votes to get any of this done. i was just talking to congresswoman debbie dingell a minute or so ago. she said people hate it when i make this warning, but don't make plans for the first week of august. but then they have to actually write all of the details of these bills. we're not going to be at that stage quite yet this summer, so it's like lay they're going to have to come back in the fall, finalize everything, and then ideally get them passed.

but you have to remember, there are all kinds of ways that people can effect this process. the budget process in particular, if it's just democrats who are doing that, republicans can force the senate to stay in overnight. they're already working on amendments to try to derail different things and cause problems for that process. so we really are a long way from actually seeing this become law. >> there's more optimism too on police reform. republicans working on a bipartisan police reform deal say they're optimistic they can announce an agreement before they leave the capitol for that fourt of july recess. >> i do think we're making more progress in the last day or two than we have in the last week, so i think we're going to be headed towards that deadline tomorrow. i'm hopeful we'll get there on the right side of the issue. i don't think there's outstanding issues that need to be worked out. we need to agree on the actual language we're using. >> i think everybody wants to get to yes. there's a general framework we

all sort of conceptually agree to. can it withstand drafting, it can withstand special interest pressure? time will tell. >> the senators from south carolina, tim scott and lindsey graham. democrats also working on the proposal sounding a bit more cautious. >> nothing is over until you're looking at the language. we'll agree to a framework this week, and then there been it gets written. and then we can look at it. but i think one thing we can generally say is that nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to. >> rev, this negotiation has been particularly civil from washington standards. we heard from cory booker, karen bass, tim scott, who have genuinely been trying to get something done. are you optimistic there will be police reform, and where is the sticking point? >> we are in contact both with the democrats and a couple

conversations with the republican side. it seems like there is -- they're in the room. the question is, are they at the same table? you get different signs from different sides. but it is our hope, and when i say our, i'm talking about the eight civil rights groups that have been working with them, that thad can come to a bipartisan agreement. let's remember that tomorrow is the sentencing of derek chauvin, the former police officer convicted of killing george floyd. we wanted to see a bill before his sentencing. now they're saying maybe before july 4th. we absolutely in this country need this bill, even if there's some things that are not on the bill, if the basic core things that george floyd family, because the bill is named after george floyd, would agree with, and that the civil rights legacy, several rights organizations agree with, we could go with it, but clearly, there are some things we don't want taken out in the name of just making bipartisan.

bipartisan should not be leave the reform out just to make a political deal on the hill. so we're watching and we're optimistic and hopeful, but we're not going to become one that forgets why we're at the table in the first place. >> is it qualified immunity that's still at the middle of all this? >> must be qualified immunity involved. and how you define that clearly, we need to deal with. and we must deal with how we deal with the question of police being very transparent in terms of what it is we define as willful or not willful. there are many areas that there are some particular disagreements that you can give or take, but you must have a bill that holds police accountable. we cannot go through a summer or a year again of george floyd, breonna taylor, all these cases that we saw last year, and come out of it without some clear police reform. >> still ahead, president biden

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president biden has put crime front and center, shootings and murders are rising across the nation. responding to the crisis, hoping to disarm republicans of the talking point that proved effective in the last election, democratic leaders are no longer talking about defunding the police. the strong performance of new york city mayoral candidate eric adams, a former police officer who made fighting crime the centerpiece of his campaign, also indicates democratic voters are serious about that issue. then yesterday came president biden's new strategy for addressing the surge in gun violence. the president's plan focuses on providing law enforcement with more resources, offering community support, and cracking down on people who are illegally

supplying firearms. >> if you willfully sell a gun to someone who is prohibited from possessing it. if you willfully fail to run a background check, if you willfully falsify a record, if you willfully fail to cooperate with a trace and request inspection, my message is this, we'll find you and we'll seek your license to sell guns. we'll make sure you can't sell death and mayhem on our streets. it's an outrage. it has to end. and we'll end it. period. folks, this shouldn't be a red or blue issue. it's an american issue. we're not changing the constitution. we're enforcing it. being reasonable. we're taking on the bad actors doing bad and dangerous things in our communities. and to our country. >> so mike, yesterday, president biden, who was painted during the campaign by some republicans as a radical leftist, announcing he's going to add hundreds of millions of dollars proposed

spending to support police and to make them better. >> yeah, fund the police, not defund the police. you know, the reality is, in every american, major american city, the reverend knows this, we are living within a notion of guns out there in various neighborhoods. a notion of handguns. we're not talking about assault rifles we're talking about handguns. the president addressed that. the entire package we have been talking about this morning, a key white house group went up to the congress and sat all day yesterday, working out whether it's a $1 trillion bill or a $1.2 trillion bill. everybody seems cautiously optimistic about something happening on that bill. we have been a long time as a country split, divided politically, where you have people cautiously optimistic about progress being made. and mara gay, i don't know about you, but i have been cautiously optimistic myself about something finally happening,

about maybe the dam breaking. it might not be what everyone wants. it might not be what elizabeth warren wants, but something appears to be on the edge of happening. do you think it will make any difference at all in the way people feel about our politics? >> you know, i certainly hope so. i think there's a couple things going on here. first of all, the united states has a gun problem, as you so eloquently said. we have too many guns on our streets. and so we need federal action to get them off the streets because individual states and cities like new york cannot stop the flow of guns from coming into new york city, for example, without federal action. just rational action, to prevent bad actors from getting their hands on guns. so that's the first thing. the other thing is that we should just recognize that people who study violence and crime will tell you right now that it is too soon to know and

understand exactly why we are seeing the crime spike across the country that we are. but those who have worked on this issue for a very long time know that what they will tell you is this is not surprising given the level of disruption, trauma, grief, joblessness, homelessness, and just general upheaval that the united states has gone through, particularly communities of color and people living in poverty across the united states. so we do, i believe, need to make sure that police have the right resources to do the job well. that funding should come with accountability. it should come with reform. and it should also come, i believe, and i don't think that this is that different from what you're seeing from many people are saying, it should come with some discussion of funding for other things that can help reduce violence. and that could include peer violence programs, violence

interrupter programs and also afterschool programs. athletic associations, jobs, people need help in their lives to stay away from crime, and it's not only police that should be the tool. >> coming up, america's top general pushes back on accusations that critical race theory is undermining the military. we'll show you his remarkable exchange, next on "morning joe." breyers is always so delicious... i can tell that they used your milk, matilda. great job! moo you're welcome. breyers natural vanilla is made with 100% grade a milk and cream and only sustainably farmed vanilla. better starts with breyers.

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now to theliest on the breaking news we have been covering this morning out of south flofrd. a beachfront condominium tower collapsed in the town of surf' side early today, about 2:00 in the morning local time. at least one person has been killed, trapping residents in the rubble as well. sending a cloud of debris throughout the neighborhood. miami-dade fire and rescue is conducting search and rescue operations right now. and joining us from the scene, nbc news correspondent sam brock. i understand we'll learn more about an hour from now when miami-dade police give a press briefing. what more can you tell us? >> we know there's been at least one confirmed fatality right now, willie. the ten people were treated on scene, both of those facts are courtesy of the surfside mayor

who described this as like a bomb going off. a catastrophic failing. he said there's no logical explanation for how this could have happened. he's not familiar with any similar situation here in miami or miami beach. what we're seeing is a striking contrast from a few hours ago. when we were on scene at 3:00 or 4:00, there were fire crews standing in front of the building but they were using ladders to get to the third, fourth, fifth floors of the complex, trying to get people out. we spoke with a woman who was in fact rescued with her husband. they said they always hated living streetside on this building. it's a condominium complex. they always wanted to live seaside. the seaside portion is where it collapsed. it's possibly dozens of apartments. if you think of it as vertical columns. there's 12 apartments per column. three or four were wiped out. you're talking about 40 to 50 units of people affected, just gone. we're talking to residents who said they heard screams, sounds of people believed to be trapped, not able to get around

their floors because of all the debris that was accumulated there. some were lucky enough to be rescued. this is obviously a dire situation and it's worth noting, willie, in miami beach, every 40 years, a building has to go under a structural review. i'm told from a resident that was actually going on right now. the building was constructed and opened in 1981. it's been almost exactly 40 years. whether that's connected to what happen here or not, we don't know. we have to wait to find out. it was definitely being reviewed as this all happened. and it's heartbreaking. you talk to this woman who was rescued. she has three kids. a 12-month-old grandson. she said if i were living on a seaside portion of this, i wouldn't be living, i would never see them again. now i'm going to go and give them the biggest hug. i'm hearing reports like that all over. people who are so grateful to be alive, and tweets and messages from people across the globe saying i have loved ones who live there. can you tell me anything about where they are because i can't

get in touch with them? it's haunting and a prospect in terms of the search and rescue that could be going on for some time. there are fire trucks lined up and down the block. miami-dade police has taken the lead part of the investigation. we're now expecting an update from them at 9:20 eastern standard time. as soon as we have more information, we'll bring that to you. >> sam, you're reporting one confirmed death. you look at those pictures. you consider the time of night, it was 2:00 in the morning, obviously, moe people would be sleeping at that point. when you talk to firefighters, when you talk to police there, is the expectation that that number will rise, perhaps considerably? >> yes, they don't really want to speak out of turn. we're waiting for a formal conversation with miami-dade police. miami beach police as well, but when you talk to people who live in that building, i spoke to one woman, willie, who had left right as this was going on, and said i'm going to lose friends and neighbors and loved ones. and i tried to press her on that, how many, and she didn't want to delve into it, but it

seems like an inevitability to her, living on the ninth floor of the building, there's no way people could survive that kind of collapse. dozens upon dozens of units reduced to a giant pile of rubble. i would add this because the surfside mayor said he's concerned about the firefighters responding. it could still collapse. they had to clear people out of the apartment next door. that's still a risk. when we spoke with the surfside mayor, he said there might still be engineered in there. that's why it's a stark contrast now to earlier. you're not seeing the active rescues. partly that could be for safety. >> search and rescue teams looking for survivors in that rubble. we'll let you get back to reporting. as sam mentioned, there will be a news briefing an hour from now from miami-dade police where we hope to get much more information forria. for now, we'll be right back with much more "morning joe."

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hearing room as the chairman of the joints chief of staff and the nation's first black defense secretary testified before the house armed services committee. two republican congressmen pressed the military leaders about recent efforts to promote inclusion in the ranks including teaching courses about race at military academies. here were their responses. >> we do not teach critical race theory. we don't embrace critical race theory. and i think that's a spurious conversation. and so we are focused on extremist behaviors. >> on the issue of critical race theory, et cetera, i'll have to get much smarter on whatever the theory is. but i do think it's important actually, for those of us in uniform to be open minded and be widely read, and the united states military academy is a university. and it is important that we train and we understand, and i

want to understand white rage. and i'm white. and i want to understand it. so what is it that caused thousands of people to assault this building and try to overturn the constitution of the united states of america? what caused that? i want to find that out. i want to maintain an open mind here, and i do want to analyze it. it's important that we understand that because our soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, and guardians come from the american people, so it is important that the leaders now and in the future do understand it. i have read mao se p tung, so what is wrong with having some situational understanding for the country which we are here to defend. i personally find it offensive that we are accusing the united states military, our general officers, our commissioned and noncommissioned officers of being, quote, woke, or something else because we're studying some theories out there. that was started at harvard law school years ago and proposed there were laws in the united

states, antibellum laws, prior to the civil war, that led to a power differential with african-americans that were three quarters of a human being when this country was formed and we had a civil war and emancipation proclamation to change it and brought it up to the civil rights act, took another 100 years to change that. look, i do want to know, and i respect your service and you and i are both green berets but i want to know and it matters to our military. >> the green beret general milley was addressing there was republican congressman michael waltz. joining us, andrew w. mellon, professor in humanities and antiracist research. ibram kendi, author of how to be an antiracist and host of the new podcast called be antiracist. and also with us, keshia blain, associate professor of history at the university of pittsburgh. keshia and ibram are coedteres

of the book titled four hundred souls. good morning morning and welcome to you both. ibram, let me begin with you and your first blush take from what you heard from general milley yesterday, perhaps unexpected in his defense there. >> well, first, i was happy to hear him say that he wants to understand white rage. he wants to understand what drove many americans to storm the u.s. capitol. and in seeking to understand that, we would be seeking to understand racist ideas. we would be seeking to understand white supremacist organizations. and indeed, when we're thinking about those people who stormed the capitol, some of them were people who were former military. and so i think it's important for them to root out white supremacists within their ranks, and the way you do that is by teaching about race, by teaching

about equality, by insuring that people recognize the racial groups are equals. >> i think that the important part of what ibram is saying is that a lot of people don't understand what white supremacy may be defined as. and have these feelings and not know that that's exactly what we need to root out. so i think that what he's saying is important, ibram, as you said, because if you don't get to the root of the problem, you can have people that just think this is a natural way, they were raised that way, and there's nothing racist about it. that's just the way they exist, when in fact it is a racist existence. >> exactly, reverend. i don't think i could say it any better. >> keshia, what did you think as you heard, it was fascinating also to hear sort of general milley confront many of these congressmen and women who

frankly were fanning the flames of that insurrection, and they were sort of smugly shaking their heads as a four-star general lectured them. >> it was really great to hear. in fact, i think quite frankly, it's one of the most powerful speeches that i have heard in defense of critical race theory, and one of the things that the general pointed out is the reality that so many people simply do not even know what it is. i'm really struck by this conversation that we're having at a national level because i think for so many of us, we did not even encounter critical race theory until we were pursuing our ph.d.s and even still, rilts it's not as widely taught as people might imagine. it is truly something that is primarily taught at law schools and certainly at universities, but the fact that we're even having a conversation about critical race theory, i just find somewhat surprising.

and part of it is, i think, a lack of understanding. it was great to hear the general re-enforce the point people need to learn, people need to actually educate themselves as opposed to simply running around using a term that they don't even understand. >> keshia, it's jonathan lemire. let me stay with you on that exact point. this has become shorthand as an attack for many on the right. the reactions from congressman gaetz and others, very representative of what they feel about this. we're hearing it on conservative media as well. i think there's a lack of understanding among a lot of americans as to what this actually is. so beyond going to law school, what else can be done to sort of even just give a preliminary education to people as to what this means to perhaps take down the temperature on what right now is an issue that some republicans feel like could be their ticket back into power? >> well, i think it's important to emphasize that race is a social construction which is to say that it's not biological.

it doesn't mean that it's not real in the sense that we're not having to deal with it on a day-to-day basis. we certainly do. and what we do know is that it's a historical construction, and for me, of course, and certainly for ibram as historians, we are deeply committed and invested in making sure that people understand the history and how it has shaped our conversations and our understanding, certainly, about race in the united states. but also race globally. so critical race theory, i think, is important for helping us understand race as a social construction, but also understanding how race and racism permeates the law as well as how it permeates various aspects of society. and you know, the way to fix a problem is to confront it, not to run away from it. so when we first talk about racism and we say that we want to dismantle oppressive systems, the first way is to recognize

what those problems are. it will help you confront what the problems are, will let you see how racism functions in american society. then you'll be able to participate in the process of dismantling these structures and making sure that we create a more democratic and inclusive society. so it's so important, i think, that people take, you know, recognize that this has to be more than just conversation, but it has to lead us to action. >> and if i could just add, i think two phrases that the general used that can allow us to turn down the temperature, that can allow us as americans to really be reflective are the terms open-minded and the terms widely read. it is just so critically important for us to be open-minded, to think about different ways of knowing and being in the world, to assess

other people's perspectives, to assess new evidence. and also, of course, in order for us to do that, we have to be widely read. and unfortunately, people are not reading. people who, let's say they may not understand or agree with, and that's the only way in which we're going to find some level of shared sort of understanding and shared facts. >> so one of the ways in which the congress, the new congress, is trying to change some of these structures that you're talking about is through voting rights legislation. former president bill clinton is weighing in on the filibuster debate around that issue, tetting late night host seth meyers the filibuster needs to be suspended here to expand voting rights. >> the filibuster was set up to insure prolonged debate. it was used in the civil rights era to try to kill civil rights bills. and starting in about 1993, or

'94, it started to be used all the time. and it was used on president obama. so it's now been used to try to prevent a repeat of 2020 when we had the enormous voter participation. so all the states that are in the hands of people who don't like that and want to maintain a racial income differential or try to make it harder to vote. i would -- i understand the president is reluctant to get rid of it altogether, and i sympathize with joe manchin trying to stand frup the right thing and represent people who voted more than two to one for president trump, but when it comes to preserving democracy, i would suspend the filibuster because i think it's essential. i don't think that we should be in the business of going

backwards and trying to drive down voting rights. >> so reverend, the former president clinton saying what we just heard him say. you have the former senate majority leader harry reid basically saying yesterday that the filibuster is just a matter of time before it disappear said. how much time do we have, though? >> i think we're already out of time. i think it needs to end now. voting rights is an issue that we cannot compromise on. and for the senate to vote the other day to not even debate it, i mean, can you imagine those that are being disenfranchised in my community here, and we're not even going to discuss it, we're going to vote that it is beyond our interest to even discuss it, is outright insulting. and many of us are mobilizing. martin luther king iii and his wife andrea and i announced yesterday we're doing another march on washington august 28th to start mobilization. there will be rallies all the way from west virginia and other

cities to build up toward that because we cannot in 2021 sit up and act as though in any way impeding people's right to vote is even allowable, less beyond discussion. and that's what the senate voted. >> part of the argument you hear against what president clinton said, even from some democrats, is this is a central issue to many people in the country, particularly to democrats, but what about when republicans are in control and they say this issue is central to us, we're dropping the filibuster, too. what do you make of that precedent? >> i think it's certainly part of the conversation. you know, i recognize that we will always be at a place where we're sort of going through this tug of war as to whether or not the filibuster, you know, is useful, whether it's necessary to maintain some sort of balance

and to insure that each party has an opportunity to present whatever bills or initiatives they want to set forth. i understand all these arguments, but i'm also recognizing, as the reverend just pointed out, the ways that the filibuster has been used in recent years, and certainly even historically, to impede progress as it pertains to civil rights. and i think on that point alone, we should be having a conversation about making fundamental changes because we should not be going backwards. we should be moving forward. and what is clear is we have all celebrated the 1965 voting rights act, and we're watching before our very eyes that this critical legislation ultimately is being stripped away day by day. and i think one way to protect that is to insure that we make

changes as it pertains to the filibuster. >> as of now, republicans have made it very clear that none of this proposed legislation is making it through. they just won't give them the votes. keshia blain, thank you. ibram, thank you as well. the new podcast is titled be antiracist with ibram and kendy. >> up next, the inside story of the astros cheating skabdal and new claims the team kept cheating even after getting caught. that's next on "morning joe." incomparable design makes it beautiful. state of the art technology makes it brilliant. the visionary lexus nx. lease the 2021 nx 300 for $359 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. from prom dresses to workouts $359 a month for 36 months. and new adventures you hope the more you give

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limu, you're an animal! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ .341 average, 121 rbis. homered the two times he faced him. all right. let's get nasty. >> he would set at the plate. vaughn from the windup. swing and a miss. >> have to leave a two foot hole coming out. >> what should we call now? >> see how the kid feels about

the number one. >> wild thing delivers. strike two. [bleep]. >> about to get them all again. give him the heater. >> all these pitches to choose from. maybe we ought to try something different this time. >> give him the heater. they didn't worry about signs being stolen in 1989. joining us, andy martino. his new book, cheated, inside story of the astros scandal and colorful history of signs. great to have you with us. for the audience that may not have been following the cheating scandal which you report continued for a couple years after that, as close as we have, what exactly happened, what are the accusations, what's been

borne out. >> the long and short of it, the houston astros, an lit cli inclined team took some innovations and crossed an ethical line where they hung a monitor, tv screen behind the dugout, able to get catcher's signs. all kinds of complicated sequences, even a hardcore fan doesn't understand, brilliant baseball minds understand. they were able to get signs off the monitor. when they saw an off speed pitch, bang a trash can. they made it easier to hit the ball a long way when you knew what sign was coming. that was the most famous, well known form of cheating and what they got caught for and they won the world series which captures the public imagination when a world series victory is tainted. >> i am a yankees fan.

as a yankee fan, i would love it to be true. there was stuff. take the altuve moment, on the walkoff, crossing home plated, closes his jersey, doesn't want the teammates to rip it off. there was something about a device. >> there's no evidence of that allegation. chapman threw a bad slider, the yankees closer. what's interesting about that series is it was wild with allegations, some of which proved to be true, that the yankees made. this is 2019. two years after the scandal most people know about. there was whistling, not high tech. it is illegal. teams know not to do that. the yankees catcher gary sanchez was tipping pitches, rising up in his crouch. knew the fastball was coming. dugout whistled. they were yelling at each other. it was a scandal. i wrote about it at the time.

aj hinch went after the story, said it was ridiculous, untrue, never happens when you write something accurate, people who you caught never do that. after all that, game six in houston, teams back in houston. middle of the game. yankees executives in the box notice a pattern of flashing lights on the scoreboard at minute maid park. they asked the scouts, look at that, can you tell me if that's a pattern. yankees scouts say yeah, we think lights are blinking for fastball, curve ball, changeup. taken the scheme from two years ago, made it more high tech. there's an mlb investigation in game. yankees officials call the officials right there. mlb officials walk to the scoreboard. magically, blinking stops. >> this is after they were caught, they continued to cheat with the lights? >> the trash cans at that time was widely known and rumored in the game.

the expose', publication hadn't come out, it was a month away. there were three years where opponents, yankees, rays, indians, red sox had their own issues, knew the astros were worse and they were worse than what the astros did as you well know, there were complaints and rumors. and investigations by mlb. the trash can thing didn't come out in public until later >> it was widely known. >> widely known inside the game. they're brazenly blinking lights on the scoreboard. 2019. that's what surprises me. >> one of the principal arkt tekts was the general manager, smart guy, not uniquely baseball guy which leads me to ask you, major league baseball front offices now are loaded with ivy league graduates, highly technical educational backgrounds, they're bringing to

the game all sorts of things, like electronics, smart stuff. >> cheating. >> cheating. >> taking the money wall trend from the early part of the century, turning it into something with a more sinister edge, you look for an edge with technology, analytics, high speed cameras, and turns into this. jeff luno was not a baseball guy, probably didn't know how to pick a sign sequence from the catcher. it was more the culture that was created that allowed smart baseball guys like alex cora, carlos beltran, they kind of knew there was a culture there, go ahead and push the boundaries, use the tools that we have. so it wasn't necessarily a conspiracy from the top down, it was go ahead and push the envelope. this is how we do things here. >> one thing can't be undone is rise of technology in the game. there are video monitors everywhere. that's how sports are played in

2021. how does mlb change it going forward? >> signs stealing has been part of the game as long as there's been pitches. i think within another generation there will be another of these, depending what tools are available. but the shame and in dignity the astros had to suffer even though they weren't penalized, the way jeff won't work in baseball again, aj hinch will live with it his entire life, alex cora is manager of the red sox now, i think the way it played out with players so angry with union brothers on the astros, all of the arguing and shame and bad pr, i think that's going to discourage it from happening anytime soon. i don't think it is going on now the same it was over the few years. >> good again this year, the astros. thank you both for privately saying yes, judge should have

won the mvp and yankees were the best team. you won't say it on tv, but the text you sent me meant the world to me. fascinating book. cheated, the inside story of the astros scandal and colorful history of sign stealing. that does it for us. stephanie ruhle picks up coverage right now. hi there. i am stephanie ruhle. it is thursday, june 24th. there's a lot to get to this morning. violent crime ticks up across the country, president biden released a new plan to fight it, focused largely on illegal gun sales and underfunded police departments. the big question, what can he actually get done if congress doesn't get on board? at the same time, congress might be getting on board when it comes to passing infrastructure. speaker pelosi and senate majority leader chuck schumer leaving a meeting with white house officials yesterday,