of champlain towers collapse. awaiting an update here in miami-dade county county we'll bring it live to you. four people are confirmed dead. 159 remain unaccount the for, despite the heroic ongoing efforts from rchkers and first responders, no survivors have been found since thursday. nothing heard from survivors since thursday. nevertheless, officials on the ground have not lost hope. >> our firefighters have been working around the clock. sparing nothing to get to the survivors. they have hope. i have hope. please, world pray for miami, pray for surfside. >> of the known -- the four known victims of the tragedy, one of them has been identified as 54-year-old stacey fang who passed away shortly after arriving at a local hospital. she is the mother of 15-year-old

jonah handler pulled from the rubble after the collapse. he is in stable condition in the hospital. the building was home to a large jewish population as well as nationals from south american countries including colombia, argentina, venezuela. the clams of the building remains a mystery but there is a lot of speculation about the contributing factors including the building on shifts sands. we're on a barrier island, could have contributed or a sinkhole that happens in florida or construction defects or corrosion because we are next to salty ocean air. the build something set to undergo a recertification as required by miami-dade building code and set to undergoe a major repair project. a newly released 2018 report from a consultant documented evidence of major structural damage to the concrete slab below the pool deck. and quote, abundant cracking and

crumbling of the columns, beams and walls of the underground parking garage. the report does not say the building was at risk of collapse but says it needed to be fixed in a timely fashion and aimed at, quote, maintaining structural integrity. but all this means that the big questions still remains. how does a 40-year-old building suddenly collapse right here in the middle of the night? with so many similar building not only in the immediate area but across florida, across coastal regions in other areas of the country, can what happened here happen again? joining me is my colleague vaughn hillyard, also in surfside at one of the more tense locations, the family reunification center, which is set up for family members. vaughn, one of the tragedy as i drove around last night getting a sense of it was a fence that i saw had that pictures of missing people. reminiscen of post-9/11 new york. people putting up pictures

saying they are missing family members most of the people you're with know if they're missing family members they're probably at the site behind me. >> that's the closest event that you can draw that comparison to. because yesterday as i stood outside of the unification center, which was a couple blocks away from where i am now i literally stood at the crosswalk of the entrance, folks coming out one after the others roers. doing my best as a reporter sympathizing with the families, asking for the stories. some understandably did not want to share and were understandably having a difficult time. others opened up. and they would open their phone and show me images of brothers, sister, mother. one gentleman, luis showing me a photo of his 26-year-old son. those are the images as a human i try to grapple with this. because the individuals are holding out hope because officials say there is a chance their loved ones are under the

rubble and there is potentially a pocket of oxygen reechgs reaching them. at the same time 48 hours later now. yesterday evening, the reunification center, left the community center is the hotel and putting the families up. this is difficult. i want to let you hear from grace o'donnell, making her way family to family yesterday with her dog jeepers. with the miami-dade police force as they tried to conceal these people. she shared with us with her conversations spoke to the moment that the individuals are going through. take a listen. >> it's starting to get to the pount where you still have hope, but it's not a very good situation. so it's just hard on the families. it's very hard on them, you know. they're looking for any kind of,

you know, news. to the point where good news, bad news, but they're trying to get some kind of news as to what's going on. >> ali, the fact that no bodies have been recovered since yesterday morning at 5:30 a.m. that we are aware of, there's the part that hurts so much. there is no news, folks family members telling me they were turning over dna with hopes bodies may be recovered and at least they can identify that loved ones are in fact deceased. this is tough, ali. >> i can't imagine that you're waiting in a room to hear about your loved ones and they're asking you for a swab of your dna to identify someone in case they find the remains. vaughn, thank you for all you are doing. vaughn talked about the numbers. we haven't had an update in 24 hours. haven't had a change in numbers. we got an eye over there. there is going to be a miami-dade police briefing shortly. joining me in surfside is nbc national reporter and my

colleague, deon hampton. he has been talking to a man anxiously awaiting word on both his mother and grandmother. this is what you do deon. i run in to you in parts of the country where you are there getting the story of the people. this is a engineering story, catastrophe, rescue search and rescue people. but there are four dead and 159 unaccounted for. >> i would hate to say but hope is turning into a a little bit of of despair. everybody is waiting to find out what's happening with the uncle, mother, grandmother, nephew? and nobody seems to know np like you said, four dead, 11 injuries, 159 people unaccounted for. but no updates since yesterday about -- we haven't gotten new numbers. now, okay, there is a lot of rubble to go through. a lot of concrete to go through. but people are just trying to figure out what's going on. the guy who i spoke with pablo

rodriguez, he said that his mother and his grandmother lived in a different part of miami but they were spending the week here. they owned the unit. on the day the building collapsed she was supposed to take his son her grandson first to lunch and then after that to buy him a new bicycle which is something that most people request identify with. what grandmother doesn't want to buy her grandson a new bicycle? and it comes on the heels of the fact that a week ago they were just in philadelphia hanging out for the weekend on a mini vacation. so i think one thing that you still want to leave hope out for is that we don't know how often the people were living here. of the 159 people who were living here, how many of them were here on a permanent basis or how many people were here just on the weekends? but still a lot of answers to be figured out and hopefully the press conference later this morning will provide more details. because that's what a lot of

family members are waiting for at this moment. >> what was the overwhelming sense you got from family members, hope, frustration, understanding they might not get loved ones back or hope beyond hope that they will? >> i think yesterday when i was talking to them they were still like some hope that maybe last night more people would be found. as of right now, you know, like the guy -- like pablo told me yesterday, they were just hoping for a miracle at this point. and then i think for a lot of other people reality is starting to sink in that hey i may or may not see my loved one again, may or may not see my best friend again. but miracles do happen. we have to wait and zblee let's keep thinking about it deon. thank you for the the reporting. a national reporter for nbc news. i want to bring in kobe karp founder and principal of kobe carpet architecture. well-known in the town of surfside. thank you for joining me. we're sneaking you in. thank you for joining me. tell me what you see when you

see the images, when you see the building, the pan caking of what happens? we're all trying to make sense of this. we've seen this in the alfred r-myrhha building in -- we see it sometimes? earthquakes. but not usually. usually a series of things has to happen for a. >> you're a hundred percent correct, a series of bad events. this building was young. i was 18 years old when this building was being designed and built. but the construction means and method is similar, as you said to all the other buildings we are doing and have done here since the 1920s. there are buildings built in the 20s, 30s, 60s, still standing, not an issue. the collision of the events, the maintenance, the construction, the repair, all the things that

you did mention, are potential. now today we don't know. forensic engineering will tell us. they will come back and tell us this is where we're at. hey, this is the issue we had. but right now regret fli we do not have enough information to render a answer. >> this answer has circumstances well beyond this building. as you look up this road you see buildings of the same vintage. frankly across the country. vintage. a 40-year-old building. are there people thinking could this happen. >> this is an opportunity regret fli to say same as in florida had in the 90s where hurricane andrew came through and changed the code and the way we observe means and methods of construction, overhauled it. i think it's looking again and allow us to look again at existing structures, how do we

maintain, keep them? what do we need to do? and the same thing as for the florida building code back in the early 90s based on hurricane andrew what we saw. i think we are looking at the same similar sort of scenario. >> there anything that stands out? i only say this because my viewers may not know the theories. maintenance you mentioned. corrosion is one of them. the fact that we're on a barrier island, a study from florida international university saying there is some settling of buildings, not much, two millimeters a year or something. none of them unto themselves caused that. but i think i heard you saying yesterday that it could be a bunch of them coming together in a confluence that is not an expected outcome that results in this. >> that is potentially what we're looking at. you're a hundred percent correct. as you can see this is the first time we've had such an event. the last time we had a building collapse was in the 70s, not for anything like this. this is a unique situation and this building does have similar buildings in the neighborhood. but if they were maintained,

which they were, then they are still sustainable and resilient to the current environment and the current conditions. this is a unique situation that as we are looking at it more and more really sheds a light on how it is we need to maintain just like we maintain our buildings. and we have the technology. we have an ability to scan the buildings, see what's behind the concrete, see the steel, the condition, see what is hidden behind, if you will. and i do -- i'm optimistic that this will go ahead and become the standard for us to move forward. >> well we appreciate an optimistic note today. thank you. >> yes, sir. >> founder and principal kobe karp architecture and interior design. staying on top of the story for the next hour but also the big news about the potential charges forthcoming for the trump organization. and speak with debby wasserman schultz, representing the derick

including surfside. much more next. you're watching velshi on msnbc. . [sfx: fire truck siren] onstar, we see them. okay. mother and child in vehicle. mother is unable to exit the vehicle. injuries are unknown. thank you, onstar. ♪ my son, is he okay? your son's fine. thank you. there was something in the road... it's okay. you're safe now. ♪ watch the olympic games on xfinity ♪ it's okay. ♪ root for team usa and feel the energy ♪ ♪ 7000 plus hours of the olympics on display ♪ ♪ with xfinity you get every hour of every day ♪ ♪ different sports on different screens, ♪ ♪ you can watch it anywhere ♪ ♪ and with the voice remote ♪ ♪ you never have to leave your chair ♪ show me team usa. ♪ all of this innovation could lead to some inspiration ♪ ♪ and you might be the next one to represent our nation ♪ ♪ this summer on your tv, tablet, or any screen ♪ ♪ xfinity is here to inspire your biggest dreams ♪

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florida, he site of the building collapse that's shaken the student, the state and nation. as it stands right now four people confirmed dead. 159 remain unaccounted for. president biden -- live shots vount. president biden approved disaster assistance. ordering federal emergency aid to assist the response and recovery at the champlain towers. debbie wasserman schultz joins me now. representing the 23rd congressional district including the town of surfside. congresswoman. good to see you. this is a sad time for you. you've been spending some of it talking with relatives of people on the unaccounted for list. what are they telling you? >> yeah, i spent the last two days at the site.

it's just -- the -- i spent -- but -- i've got to talk with families waiting since yesterday. and -- despair and hope at the same time. and have hope but knowing that we have the best search and rescue teams in the world here in south florida, that are deeply and fully immersed in trying to do everything they can to rescue anyone if it's possible, gives them some comfort. and, you know, there is just -- it's a very slow and pains taking process. there is obviously danger to the search and rescue teams. you can see there's been fires breaking out. and the rain hasn't helped. it's a precarious situation that really needs to be done carefully, pains takingly and also you want to make sure there is not shifts in the rubble that end the life of someone who may

have survived. but we've got the best on the case. so thankful for that. >> i've been doctor -- for my viewers who don't know the area i've been pointing down and indicating that there are builds of this vintage for miles up and down this coast. buildings that are 35, 45, 50, even much older. buildings along this coast. and the bottom line is these buildings look very similar to the one that came down. the one that came down on is the right of the picture it's closer to the ocean, basically the second building up. are you worried about -- about what this means? i was just talking to an architect who said look it could be a confluence of events but other buildings could face the confluence of events. >> ali that was one of the first thing i thought of after this happened, is that we have literally a row upon row of these buildings who were built in a similar time and similar similar fashion, that are there are many building looking like

champlain towers south. and making sure that at the right time we get to the bottom of how this happened, and then really taking a look at other buildings that may have the same potential damage that -- or weakening that could have caused this collapse is going to be critically important. but we've been through -- unfortunately we are a natural disaster prone community. i'm so thankful we have fema on the ground now, the structural experts that are going to be helping in the analysis. the president approved notice an unprecedented amount of assistance, particularly, remember, ali this is a private buildings. normally the full complement of relief is not granted. but the president did that in this case because this is an unprecedented tragedy that just doesn't happen. >> yeah, and look, one of the things i've been impressed about

listening to the state's elected officials is the a degree to which this hasn't been politicized by anybody involved because there is no business in politicizing this. it is however, infrastructure. it's not what the infrastructure -- the federal infrastructure bill would be dealing with because it won't deal with private buildings. but something we as americans have to think about that sometimes old stuff fails if we don't care of it. we have progress on the federal infrastructure bill. some people are happy there's a deal. some people on both sides of the spectrum are not happy with the deal. where do you stand on it. >> the seamless way in which we dealt with the crisis at the local, state and national level, i really am proud of. there is no daylight between us and -- and i hope on infrastructure going forward that we are able to close that daylight, because as you can see, when we -- and we don't know what happened with this building. but we absolutely have to make sure that we are undergirding our infrastructure, that we are replacing structures that really

are past their useful life as bridges and roads have. but at the end of the day, we've got to make progress. we don't need -- you know, there is a careful balance that you have to make between letting -- letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. and at what point are you doing so little you've got to make sure you hold out so that you can make significant progress? because there are literally when it comes to infrastructure lives at stake. we had a bridge collapse the other day in south florida as well. and so this is -- this is not a game. politics can't be involved in making sure that we undergird and fix and rebuild our nation's infrastructure, because we have to make sure that our structures are safe so that people can live daily lives without worry. i mean, people in this building, again, private structure, but they woke up -- they didn't wake up many of them in the morning.

and their building literally collapsed while they were sleeping. and not -- that -- due to neglect because politicians didn't come together and make sure we can address these -- these problems long-term. >> representative debbie wasserman schultz is the democratic congresswoman from florida. thank you for joining us. our hearts tint to be with your constituents and the folks waiting on word of loved ones. don't go i'll speak to the usualen rescue committee chair about the conditions facing rescuers at the site and the likelihood of finding survivors. e likelihood of finding survivors.

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all right. we're back from surfside, florida. the site of the devastating condo collapse north of miami beach. right now the official death toll remains at four people. there are 159 people unaccounted for. we are hoping to get a new

update, thinking about 10:30 eastern. families awaiting news of loved ones say they are increasingly losing hope. take a look at the video released by miami-dade fire rescue on thursday. inside the wreckage. inside, wading through waist-high waters broughten on bring ground water and rain. by the way, a lot more' rain since then. also fires on site which required water to be put in. dave downey, the chair of the urban search and rescue committee. former fire chief for the search and rescue. he retired in 2019 after 37 years in. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> what are they facing trying to get through the rubble and trying to find survivors. >> i think you spelled out a lot of the challenges, which is the rain, nuisance fire that we can't seem to get a handle on. but the biggest concern is the

secondary collapse hazard. you know, you still have part of aabling that's standing that's unsupported. you have a lot of debris hanging off the side of the building. it's an incredibly dangerous area to work in. that's the biggest concern is making sure that everybody working there is in a safe as possible way. we calculate the risk. we measure the risk. they're trying to effect rescues. they are taking risks to effect the rescues. >> some complaints they stopped putting water on the fires to try to stop the fires. what's that about? >> they've been keeping a little bit of water all the time. but trying to make sure they measure the amount of water and not inundate and flood areas with potential survivors. >> likely in the lower part of the building. >> exactly. we've been dewatering since it happened. we have large dewatering pumps moving the water there even before the fire. it's a delicate balance in order to try to maintain as much

survivability in any space possible. >> what's causing fires. >> the fires are caused by ordinary combustibles, bed sheets, couches, chairs, you know, it's impossible to tell. it's not vehicles burning. it's not flammable liquids. the type of smoke is ordinary combustible type things. >> at some point before the power went out something might have caught fire as things shift around -- >> smoldered, one little breath of air from a gust off the beach got the fire to start to grow. and that's what -- >> we're talking about the ways we are searching for people. people are just listening, haven't heard a human voice i'm told since thursday. but we have sonar ways of listening, cameras when you make a space you send in camera and dogs search for living. not cadaver dogs, looking for living people. >> they are live victim dogs. in fact one of the huge problems -- we're all stressed

fw trying to find survivors. these dogs go through the same thing. they actually get depressed because they're not finding survivors. and pevo we have to take them off and try to rehabilitate the dogs. and so, country, the canines are working. if they alert to something we put a -- a listening device or a search camera in or we hail. we yell out. but to try to confirm the location of any victim. >> and the fire chief yesterday was saying that there is ways of gridding the system out and figuring out where there are likely pockets of air or space that people can be in. in a building pan caked like that it doesn't look possible to identify spaces. how do rescuers look for those in i've seen people coming with tools and picks and axes and things. how do they know what to look for. >> part of the training. that's highly trained abexperienced rescuers. they look at the pile and see where there is a potential for

space. this type of collapse is difficult to find the space. but they're continuing to look. there are slaps that are on leans that are unsupported that there may be some void spaces underneath that. so it's one of those things where you kind of see a little opening. you might punch a hole in to see a put and camera in and see if there is anything in there and move to the next area. it's a very meticulous but deliberate approach to search and rescue. >> some of the building is still standing. we don't know why theabling came down. you have searcher underneath a building that could come down. how do they watch, monitor that something isn't about to collapse. >> as part of teams we have structural specialists, engineers trained and experienced looking at the buildings and knowing when there -- the failure points are. they help us make the decision of where we go, where we don't go, and where we may go if we stabilize an area. we use devices, laser guided

devices on the building on to measure microns of movement in the building. some could be from wind or something else that could alert rescuers if there is a potential for a secondary collapse. >> it's not your job or the job of rescuers to make decisions about what is or isn't worth doing. you guys go in and look for life probably long after other people tell you not to. how does that decision get made about how long you keep looking for survivors? >> the search and rescue element of this whole command structure will provide their educational information to the commander that's going to ultimately make the decision. it's going to be based on the type of collapse which we already know, it's based on time. it's going to be based on the viability -- have we found any voids? have there been any significant voids? all of that is factored in? it could be we focus on one area other than another.

it's not necessarily an all or nothing decision. this is a very measured decision. as the former fire chief and leader of the rescue, i've had to make that decision, that transition. that wears very heavy on the person making that decision. and they don't do it as a knee-jerk reaction. they are going to exhaust everything they have. and that's what they're doing now in order to effect a rescue. >> thank you for the work you are doing. thanks to your friends in the fire department and many other fire departments. there are a lot of people that sent helpers in and search and rescue teams, the federal government, places their teams in here fl mexico, israel. please let them know as you talk to them our thanks to everybody working hard. dave downey, the former chief of miami-dade fire rescue. he is the chair of the urban search and rescue committee. that's what we are actually seeing as you see you'll see teams of people going back and forth. there is a tent, many food tents where they can get refreshments and food. and then they go right back in. all this talk about how they're losing hope, doesn't apply to the search and rescuers here.

we're hitting other news after a quick break including the former president's mounting legal troubles. the manhattan district are district attorney could hit the trump organization with criminal charges as early as next week. the details next on "velshi." xt. or last minute gift shopping rashida rashida: i'm putting a bow on it! wow. even sneaking away for a vacay rashida. rashida: shhh! i've earned this? from home improvement, drugstores, select travel and more earn 5% cash back that automatically adjusts to your top eligible spend category, up to $500 spent each billing cycle. ♪ sometimes you wanna go ♪ ♪ where everybody knows your name ♪ ♪♪ ♪ and they're always glad you came ♪ welcome back, america. it sure is good to see you. this is a gamechanger, who dares to be fearless even when her bladder leaks. our softest, smoothest fabric keeping her comfortable,

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manhattan district attorney's office as early as next week. this major developments with first reported by "the new york times" and confirmed by nbc news. the indictment would be the first strike for manhattan dacy advance in the years long probe into the company and former president trump. believing the case is focused on gifts and fringe benefits distributed to trump executives including the cfo allen wisele rk. i'm not incorrectly recording gift baskets ins company leverage pb the time citing people knowledgeable about the matter. is talking about tens of thousands of dollars in tuition for grandchildren and apartment rental fees were kprorl recordened and taxes paid on time. the times report quotes the times had beenabling the case against allen weisselberg as part of pressure to get him to cooperate in an inquiry. he met with the manhattan da

office thursday and tried to persuade them not to move forward. saying in statement bringing charges on the organization is quote completely outrageous. the doernt's office declines to comment on the report that charges will likely be filed next week. trump's personal attorney rudy giuliani -- wait never mind giuliani was suspended from practicing law in the state of new york. don't worry about that. see in the trumps manage without him. all of this after a quick break. cy advance. there she is. get in the justice department legal action against georgia as well over a voting law influenced by trump's big lie. coming up next on velshi." on v" [sfx: fire truck siren] "velshi.hem. okay. mother and child in vehicle. mother is unable to exit the vehicle. injuries are unknown. thank you, onstar. ♪ my son, is he okay? your son's fine. thank you. there was something in the road...

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ask your healthcare provider about rybelsus® today. if we do this, we risk everything. ♪ hallelujah, hallelujah ♪ hold on. ♪ hallelujah, hallelujah ♪ dom! you ride, we ride. georgia governor brian kemp lashes out against the justice department calling a lawsuit against his state disgusting and dead wrong. the doj is suing the state of

georgia over the voting restrictions fueled by the former president's false claims that at 2020 election was riddled with fraud, which with it wasn't. the new laws including id for mail-in voting and making it illegal to provide food or water to voters standing in line. the department is justice is asking the court to strike down the parts of the law that intentionally target black voters who would be more likely to vote by mail and require federal observers for future elections. republicans argued the laws are necessary to prevent voter fraud that doesn't exist but democrats say the restrictions directly suppress voter tourn yut. joining me joyce advance abattorney in alabama and msnbc contributor and cohost of the sisters in law podcast. this is something -- good morning to you by the way. we thought this was going to happen and the justice department had about a month ago. we talked, said they were getting involved in what appeared to be civil liberties violations voting rights vials. now they're taking action starting in georgia. what's your sense?

the georgia republicans say it's out of loan and unnecessary. the federal government thinks otherwise. >> maybe the top line intuition here, ali, is the people who have the most to benefit from or lose in elections shouldn't be charged with running them. because what we're seeing here -- and doj lays it out in the complaint -- is a direct cause and effect. more black voters vote in 2020 and in the runoff elections. and suddenly georgia passes a law that's taking aim at provisions that permitted them to vote, most notably absentee votingo balloting which black voters used in georgia at an accelerated rate. now there is a new series of restrictions on absentee voting, including things as silly as limiting the use of drop boxes to the times polling places are open so that people who work later, who have trouble getting to a polling place can't use a drop box to return absentee

ballot. doj challenges what they allege is intentional discrimination. and that's important here because doj believes it can meet the very high standard of proof in arguing that georgia is trying to violate the rights of black voters. >> i want to read an excerpt from an article about the federal government suing georgia over this. it's got to do with the conspiracy theories and the big lie. it says the proliferation of conspiracy theories set off alarm bells at the department of homeland security. the department's tom top counterterrorism official told members of congress in a closed door briefing earlier this week. they are monitor being extreme extremist online chatter about the false notion that trump could be reinstated as president in august. the reason i bring this up, joyce, it's the thing donald trump says, sydney powell says it and we laugh it off and talk about how ridiculous it is. but the department of homeland security is telling us what we should have been paying attention to a long time ago, the little lies become the big lie and there are actually

americans who think that donald trump is going to be reinstated as president. and there may be a subset of americans who think they should do something in aid of that. >> it's dangerous for white supremacist groups to have an organizing principle around the former president's lies. it's incumbent upon republicans to stand up and speak with one voice, to tell people who may be members of trump's base, that this is just more of the big lie perpetuated. but we know it's unlikely that that's going to happen. and that puts the burden on the law enforcement of doing what it failed to do, frankly before january 6th, doing a good job with intelligence, a good job with interdiction of folks who might resort to vines in these situations. it's volatile, we are not past the risks apparent to the country on january 6th. >> let's talk a little bit about this move that could be coming by c yachlt advance pb against

the trump organization. specifically it appears the cfo -- allen wisele berg, a trump organization lawyers, eric trump, people in the trump circle says this is small potatoes going after somebody for small tax matters they wouldn't normally go after someone on. give us the real context, the idea that they know weisselberg has information they need and they are pressuring him. >> first, let me say i'm always a little bit reluctant to believe rumors that a grand jury indictment is coming before i actually see the document. prosecutors may intend to bring a case to a grand jury. it's up to the grand jury whether they vote to return a true bill and diet the targets of the investigation or not. so -- so i think it's important to wait for the news here. but this is the reality with weisselberg. he is clearly someone prosecutors would like cooperating with them rather than as a defendant across the

table from them, because he can explain the documents that they have in their hands. but for a defendant like this you sometimes have to go through this courting process that can take them a long time to believe that they're going to have to plead guilty to a crime and cooperate. weisselberg, who worked for the trump organization for decades obviously has a high tolerance to risk and may need to see an actual indictment with his name on it and estimate of how much time he is going to spend in prison before he feels really enough pain to be willing to have a serious conversation with prosecutors. even then we don't know. you know, maybe he is someone who wants to stay under the bus instead of on the bus. but i've seen defendants like this a number of times. and the closer they get to the reality of the introduction into the criminal justice system, the more likely they become to talk with prosecutors. >> i want to just underscore something you said that that's really important -- everything

you say is in important. but in this particular case, the reporting about a potential indictment is coming from people who are -- who are supposedly close to it. it is not confirmed information. it is not a for sure that this is going to happen. as you point out, until a grand jury returns that indictment there is no indictment. so thank you for clarifying that. and we'll continue to make sure that we say that. we believe based on other reporting that this may be the case. when it happens and if it happens we'll let you know. joyce advance, thank you as always. former united states in alabama. msnbc contributor and cohost of the fantastic sisters in law podcast. listen and subscribe where you get povd pod casts. >> i'm coming to you from surfside, florida, with search and rescue underway officials have barely begun the process of figuring out how it happened. but a report last year warned about the champlain towers specifically. we're speaking with a professor who conducted the study when we

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we're back at surfside, florida, near the site of a tragic collapse of a 12-story condominium building. we're in miami-dade county, we've got a mayor of miami-dade county, but surfside itself has a mayor, and mayor burkett just had an interview with a local

affiliate. they asked rick scott and daniella levine cava whether he could have permission to evacuate the residents in the adjacent tower. the building that came down was champlain tower south. he wants to evacuate champlain tower north. they're part of the same structure so that authorities can conduct a thoroughly forensic study. meanwhile another study from last year by florida international university found that the building had been sinking at a rate of two millimeters per year in the 1990s. experts say that could have affected its structural integrity. the study also points out that the tower was built on reclaimed wetland. this is a barrier island, by the way, which is always of concern as the land isn't nearly as stable over time as naturally occurring foundations. joining me now is the author of the study. he's a professor of geophysics at florida international university in miami. professor, i'm sorry for mispronouncing your name there. give me a little bit of context

here. you've been quick to point out that the findings of the research, the study, is not meant to suggest certainty about what just happened. you're just adding to the knowledge about what could be a contributing factor. >> yes, that's correct. but let me first correct you. the building was -- it wasn't built on reclaimed wetland. the city of surfside in miami beach in the eastern part of the city that's close to the ocean it's built on rocks. the western side of the city is reclaimed wetlands. so actually the area where the building is built is on much stable ground than in the western part of the city. so, i don't know how it got quoted like that. but this is not the correct thing. over there it's supposed to be stable. and most of the buildings showed that in the 1990s it was stable.

this particular building shows movement which was unusual. that's why we reported that. >> so, when we talk about the subsidence, the idea that maybe sinking a little bit, we're talking about two millimeters a year, which in and of itself, you're smarter than i am about these things. i don't know how big a deal it is. but the issue of buildings shifting, settling and moving at different rates is the kind of thing that can be a contributor to catastrophic damage, not just normal subsidence or sinking. >> that's correct. so the settling of buildings, the thing is that the building at the time in the 1990s was already more than ten years old. so we don't expect to see much of settling over there, especially in that environment that is supposed to be really stable. now, there can be different things associated with that. i mean, what we measure is the movement of the building which can be either it was settling

into the ground or it can be that some kind of a movement of the building itself. most of the measurements are from the roof of the building. so, it's hard to understand or to determine if the movement was of the entire building or just part of the building. >> your comment about building on reclaimed land or wetland is interesting. is that tied to other changes that are going on? remember, we are in south florida. this is a place where there have been examples of water coming up through storm drains on perfectly sunny days and rising sea levels. is that of any impact? and is the idea that buildings are built on a coast of saltwater may face difficulties that other buildings don't? >> we conducted this study because we were concerned not about building, we were concerned about the flooding, the increased flooding in south florida and especially in that particular community of miami

beach and surfside and other coastal communities. we combine it with also other community which is norfolk, virginia, which has similar increased flooding occurrences. so the reason for that is that it introduces a major threat to these communities. and we try to understand how much the threat is coming from the rising sea level and how much the threat is coming from the subsiding land. and that was the purpose of that study. so, as part of this study, we use this technology -- radar that can scan its own space. it will transmit a signal from the satellites and then the central interact with the

surface and reach back to the satellite. from that we can measure very precise movement of the surface. the purpose was to see what part of the city is subsiding. and a byproduct of that was we saw that this particular building was moving and not others. it was a localized signal on that building. in other places where we saw subsidence, mostly in the western part of the city was more in larger area. so the report -- our report was that there are some pockets of subsidence and that's what we reported about. >> doctor, we appreciate your time. he is a professor of geophysics at the florida international university. i think your research is going to come in very handy as they are examining the causes of these things and the way to mitigate this going forward. i want to show you some new pictures that we're getting into our news room. here's a group of police officers praying at the family reunification center here in

surfside, florida. this is where the families are waiting for information about their loved ones who are still unaccounted for. our thoughts go out to all the friends and the families who are suffering at this time. that is it for me. i will be reporting from surfside throughout the day. catch "velshi" tomorrow morning at 8:00 a.m. eastern. don't go anywhere. our coverage continues with "the cross connection with tiffany cross." that starts right now. ♪♪ good morning, everybody, and welcome to "the cross connection." we have a lot to get to today, including, as you just saw with my friend ali velshi the latest from surfside, florida, where day three of recovery operations are underway after a condo building collapsed, leaving four people dead and 11 injured. now there are still more than 150 people unaccounted for. we're expecting an update from authorities in a few minutes, and don't turn away because we're going to bring it to you live rig