unfairly trying to push lawmakers to pass restrictive bills. >> he is trying to extort the legislators saying he will not fund the legislative branch, notal salaries or staff salaries unless they pass the bills that are allowing poll watchers to get as close to voters as they want, that make it a crime for poll workers to ask the poll watchers to leave, that ban drive-through voting, a 24-hour voting. i mean, the situation is urgent. this is happening right now in texas. and we need everybody to pay attention. >> and it seems that president biden is paying attention to texas and a number of other republican-led states that passed or attempting to pass new voter restrictions. the president is set to give a speech in philadelphia next tuesday without giving specifics the white house says biden will discuss what is needed to protect access to the ballot box. the president, however, did deliver a very pointed message to russian president vladimir

putin in the wake of recent ransomware attacks carried out by russian hackers. >> i made very clear to him that -- that the united states expects when ransomware operation is coming from these sources that is not, not sponsored by the state we expect him to act and give us enough information to act on who that is. >> meanwhile the fallout from the insurrection is reverb rating across capitol hill. look at this image of history you wouldn't really think of. we were hoping wouldn't be history. these are trucks, a live shot not a photograph these are trucks that are paused outside the united states capitol, getting ready to remove fencing from around the capitol. the to do fencing that has been up since the day after january 7th. erected in the wake of the riot. that's coming down.

might take a couple days. in will be one of the last remaining visual reminders of the deadly attack and may soon be out of sight. but that doesn't mean we can let the events of that day slip out of mind. we have newly released body camera footage from the department of justice revealing the vobls violence that capitol police officers were confronted with. in this video we're about to show you. if you're squeemish look away. one of the rioters yells at the police, you're going to die tonight. in is disturbing to watch. >> you're going to die tonight. >> there is another newly released video that shows a police officer being dragged into the raging maga mob among several new videos from the day of the capital attack. while the department of justice works on identifying and charging the people involved, the house select committee is working to uncover what motivated them to carry out this assault on democracy and how we

can prevent that from happening again. the chairman of the committee congressman bennie thompson says the first hearing will be held this month with or without republican support. >> either the 21st or 22nd of july, the committee is committed to doing our job. as i said, with hope that kevin mccarthy gives us his five recommendations so we can fully populate the committee. but if he chooses not to, we will still do our work. if the facts lead us to members of congress being complicit in what occurred january 6th we'll go there. >> you have also, i know, not ruled out a subpoena potentially for former president trump. we know you know i know that trump white house officials ignored congressional subpoenas before. >> there are some mechanism to enforce subpoenas, obviously. we plan to exercise. we might have to go to court. >> well, the twice impeached

ex-president would rather to court for another reason. he is leading a meritless lawsuit against facebook, google and twitter for banning him from platform after he incited the insurrection. the case doesn't stand a chance in court. but that's not the point. it's about the grist he is using the lawsuit to fundraiser money off of. is his apparentlily clueless supporters. the frivolous li lous lawsuit is a distraction from the real indictment facing the trump organization and the chief moneyman allen weisselberg who may feel the squeeze. weisselberg stepped down as director of the scottish golf club a week after manhattan district attorney charged him with tax crimes. the investigation could soon turn their attention to trump's adult children as well. while the indictment only explicitly names weisselberg there is growing speculation among the community that someone whose last name is trump could be next. weaver got a lot to sort through. i've got just the person to do that. joining me is it kimber atkins

store a columnist from "the boston globe" and recovering lawyer. thank you for joining us this morning. let's talk about how this is unfolding first of all for donald trump. the -- the investigation into the trump organization and allen weisselberg, does seem this lawsuit he has launched against the social media companies entirely meritless, every lawyer including your sisters in law have said so. but it gets it into the news cycle and gets the trump org out of the cycle in some case sows. >> it does, and also helps to fuel the sense of grievance that donald trump has really turned into political gold and helped him win the election in 2016 and has helped him foment, you know, the big lie and other falsehoods ever since. it's this idea that the president -- the former president is under attack, that democrats and social media

networks acting on behalf of democrats are just seeking to punish him, which isn't the case. he -- just like i think the easiest example if you're in a movie theater and you falsely yell fire the first amendment doesn't protect you and empowers the movie theater to kick you out for breaking rules. essentially what twitter and the other companies did was kick him out for breaking rules. he is using this to his advantage however he can both to distract from the very really meritorious claims -- likely meritorious claims and also boost his fundraising, as you said. >> talk to me about the january 6th stuff. we showed the video the department of justice is using some of that video to hold one of the suspects from january 6th in custody or to have him monitored, because they say that in -- the stuff that donald trump is continuing to do, the discussions about him being put back into the office by the foam pillow guy in august, the continuing discussion about having been cheated out of the

election, the continuation of the big lie could still be motivating some americans to violence. >> it very well could. and these investigations are important, because what the justice department has done that congress has been unable to do is really get into the motivation of what some of these -- what brought some of these folks to the capitol on january 6th. they've gotten testimonies from -- testimony from people from dangerous white nationalist groups and are understanding how that element helped this. it certainly is examining to what extent donald trump's messaging and his falsehoods helped foment that as well. of course donald trump himself is still under investigation by a number of authorities as to whether he incited -- did incited a riot on that day, facing criminal and civil liability for doing that. all of these things are working

together. question don't know if that will reach donald trump, if it will end up in a civil verdict or criminal charges, but all these are pieces investigators are putting together. >> let's talk about the january 6th committee, which we still don't know how this is going down. we know that bennie thompson says he is starting his hearings one way or the other. they have to go to court to get things done they will do so. but we don't know whether kevin mccarthy is doing anything whether he puts obstructionists in the spots. and nancy pelosi has to agree to the nominees, or put people who might want to get to the bottom of what happened on january 6th. i for one am puzzled by the lack of intellectual curiosity on the part of republicans about the people involved in in -- in in insurrection because i would hope they would want to have that not happen again. maybe i'm wrong. >> yeah, i would hope that too, ali. but what they have shown time and time again is that the political consideration takes precedent. and right now it's not -- they

have made the determination that it's not politically advantageous for republicans in 2020 to -- and beyond to get to the bottom of this. they don't want to go after folks who made -- whose support they may think they need or people who have the support of donald trump. or who support donald trump and anger them in this process. and so they are sticking their head in the sand like the old cartoons of ostriches back in the day and pretending this isn't a problem and moving forward. yet this was an attack on democracy. i think most americans see that clearly. and the fact that republicans can't get out of short sighted concerns about angering their own base for the upcoming election is very disappointing. >> i want to ask you, we may have pictures -- i'm asking my control room. we've been watching the confederate statues come down in charlottesville, virginia. this was a rallying point for the unite the right rally which

really, kimberly, when you andry old and forgetful this will be one of the things we remember. this unite the right rally, the tiki torches, people going through and saying racist things. and what we will remember more than the rally was the reaction from the president of the united states. now they are removing the statues of general robert e. leeann of general stone wall jackson. does this matter to you? >> it matters a great deal. as an american abformer virginians with, someone on this air live with your colleague nicole wallace on the day donald trump talked about the very good people on both sides, it is an important thing to remember. it is important to remember our history. but it's important not to honor the people who fought against this nation. you know, i -- living in the greater washington, d.c. area, i drove on streets that -- that are named after lee.

you see monument schools, libraries all kinds of things named after these folks who wanted to keep my ancestors enslaved and fought a war for that to happen. this is a small positive moment. i think this nation has a lot farther to go and hopefully it can find a way to move in the right direction. >> kimberly thank you for your time this morning. kimberly atkins store a columnist for "boston globe" and msnbc contributor and could host of the excellent "sisters in law" podcast. joining me is jason crow of colorado. a former army ranger. one of the first managers of the impeachment trial. i ask members of congress about their story about what happened on january 6th. you as a former ranger was doing what everybody else was. trying to keep safe. but you got called upon to keep others safe as well. your view of january 6th is a

different perspective than many members and staff. >> yeah, good morning, ali, thanks for having me on. always good to talk to you. it was. i never thought i would be pressed back into the position and mindset that he was in when i was an army ranger in iraq and afghanistan, having to fight my way out protection people around me, make the call to my family to tell them i loved them. the call so many people never ever want to make in their life. let alone thinking i'd be thrust back in that position in the u.s. capitol. so many of us have memories of taking road trips as a kid and turning that corner and seeing the capitol at the end of the mall and the awe we had and the inspiration it has for so many americans, to think that that building was defiled and occupied by people carrying confederate flags.

we're not allowing this to be swept under the rug as video shows. we're telling the story because we can't let it happen again. >> what do you make of the symbolism of the -- the fence being removed starting today? you know, on one hand there is -- there is joy that america is returning to some normalcy and americans will once again be able to approach their united states capitol. on the other hand, the -- the stains, the fears of what happened on january 6th are unresolved. >> yeah, that's exactly right. i mean, it's complicated, as you indicated. on the one hand i want the capitol build be, the complex on capitol hill to be accessible to people, transparent. that's the people's house. that's one of the great things i love about my job and being in the house of representatives we are closest to the people. always up for election, always out in the communities talking to folks, making the case for our 2-year contract renewal as i often put it. i think it's important that's open to people and people walk around with families.

on the other hand this is far from over. we have a growing and emboldened domestic extremist movement in america becoming more violent, not less. and we have to make sure that we are emboldened to address that, we're being honest about the threat and addressing it with vigor. and that's in part what the select committee is about, making sure we are having the honest discussion but make sure we address it at the d.o.d. level with extremism in the ranks, addressing at the d.o.j., fbi and local law enforcement as well. >> let's talk about afghanistan. we have troops pulling out there. we've got the president suggesting that 300,000 afghan troops and their well-trained air force can handle the 75,000 or so taliban. but the taliban is aiming to succeed in taking over at least 85% of that country. americans are worried about them taking over kabul. and we have a bunch of translators stuck in afghanistan who used onto help the soldiers who were there.

>> that also is complicated. none of these issues are easy. i mean, this is tough. i have mixed feelings about everything going on here. there is a part of my heart in afghanistan still as combat veterans leave pieces of themselves in the places they fought. i served two combat rotations there with the army rangers. the bottom line is nothing is inevitable here. there is substantial risk to our pullout but substantial risk to not pulling out. that's what the president adequately conveyed. he has to make values judgment. we don't have unlimited resources a money and personnel. we have to address the biggest risks where they are and made a decision we can't continue to be at war forever in afghanistan. that's a decision i agree with. but you're right in that we have to make sure we address the taliban threat as well. that's continuing financial aid, aid to the military, making sure we are keeping the afghan air force flying, because that's a huge distinguishing factor here. the taliban are not going to be

able to take kabul and the major city centers if the afghan air force is flying. because they can't go on major roads where they are picked off by the air force. make sure that's happening. but also keep the coalition in afghanistan which is fragile from fragmenting. we have seen the militias reconstitute. what that means is the militias are made up of members of the afghan military. desserting and leaving roles as member of the military and leaching to go to the militias which is a troubling trend. >> good to talk to you as always, democratic representative jason crow of colorado, a former house manager in donald trump's first impeachment trial and former united states ranger. much more on this hour of developvy." the new delta variant putting large swaths of the country in peril. the u.s. health agencies are pushing back. we untangle the confusion. big tech and big trouble. president biden signed an executive order threatening the

monopoly of tech. seems to be the only fight where gop and democrats are on the same page. state of siege in haiti following the assassination of the president. the country asked for the united states military help. we'll have more on that when "velshi" returns after this. "velshi" returns after this. when technology is easier to use... ♪ barriers don't stand a chance. ♪ that's why we'll stop at nothing to deliver our technology as-a-service. ♪

at least 17 suspects have now been arrested in the violent assassination of jovialenle moise the president of haiti. but they have identified over two dozen in total. of those arrested, most of them, foreigners, 15 colombians be two americans of haitian descent. officials pursuing eight more suspects after four where a killed in the 24 hours of intense standoffs and gun fights following the death. suspects burned vehicle that that might have been used in the attack even as the interim prime

minister claude joseph imposed siege. putting the country under martial law. the president's assassination in the early hours of wednesday morning when the attackers stormed the home and shot him at least 12 times according to one judge, further destabilized the country. haiti was struggling with an ongoing humanitarian cries frist an earthquake in 2010 that killed over 200,000 people. gangs have run more rampant over the years taking advantage of the disasters aftermath. and of course the pandemic only made things worse. the lack of political stability and resources left haiti as the only country in the western hemisphere with no vaccination campaign. there is also increasing dissatisfaction with moise, including seven attempts to overthrow him. he has essentially ruled by decree in the past 18 months pushing for constitutional reforms. but those were postponed over deep disagreements including uncertainties about whether he would give up power. now haiti faces a power vacuum that many fear could lead to yet another dictatorship.

you see claude joseph is unofficially the acting prime minister. haiti's parliament hasn't sat since 2020. he hasn't been confirmed. but literally the day before the president was killed he had appointed a neuroo surgeon ar yell henry as prime minister. henry told the haitian newspaper that in his opinion joseph is no longer prime minister. and thursday the biden dplrpgs confirmed it recognizes joseph as the prime minister and will send fbi and dhs officials to assist the haitian national police with the investigation. the haitian government requested the u.s. military to protect key infrastructure. we'll bring you the latest as that situation unfolds. the cdc says fully vaccinated americans are safe from serious ilds from covid but in one state nearly 30 fully vaccinated people died from coronavirus. i'll talk to a medical expert about it next. i'll talk to a medical expert about it next. nges and grills. and if you're looking for...

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this morning the hialeah transmissible covid delta variant spreads rapidly across unvaccinated regions of the united states. and elsewhere. unless the states reintroduce mask rules, capacity limits and other public health measures rolled back in recent months they say they could be facing a dangerous fall season. this week global covid 19 deaths surpassed 4 million. the united states has the highest reported death toll globally at more than 600,000. in response to news that pfizer is looking into developing a third shot to potentially boost immunity against the delta variant, the cdc and fda reassured that fully vaccinate the americans are safe from serious covid illness and do not need a booster at this time. however there is concerning nows out of louisiana where health department officials say 27 people searching full doses of covid-19 vaccinations have died from the coronavirus. their ages range from 28 to 93

years old. despite all this the cdc issued new guidelines for students, k-12 can expect to fully reopen in the fall and fully racks eighted students do not need masks in classroom. it's worth noting most young children are not even authorized for the vaccine yet. as a positive sign for the return to normalcy but it's also worrying for parents as the delta variant dominates in the united states. joining me now is dr. peter hotez professor at baylor college of medicine. codirector at the texas children's hospital center for vaccine development. he is somebody who studied coronaviruses in the past and their vaccines. peter, good to see you again. please tell me how concerned we shall be with respect to vaccinated people, fully vaccinated, two shots, getting covid in a serious way and being hospitalized and possibly dying. >> well, the good news is it's a rare event. remember that if you look at the number of individuals who are

dyeing from covid in 2021, 99.something% -- 99.5% have not been vaccinated. overwhelmingly you're at risk for serious illness or dying if not vaccinated. there are exceptions. remember, ali, these vaccines are not 100%. in the 90% range, not perfect. there are some hospitalizations and even a few deaths in vaccinated individuals. a number of them are on immunosuppressive therapies for solid organ transplantation. and bone marrow. there are a significant number of americans immunocompromised. 5% maybe. they may benefit from a third immunization booster. also the extremely older americans, over 90, sometimes do not respond very robustly -- in a robust way to to it vaccine.

yes it happens we have an explanation for most of them. >> so, you and i had the conversation before. i get it. we might need a third vaccine. i don't get why we get a press release from pfizer and then we get the f.d.a. and cdc saying something else. we've been doing this -- we've done a lot right in the last year. this feels like we still haven't got this one right. >> well, that's right. and this has been an ongoing problem -- it's not just pfizer. it's all the companies putting out press releases. as i like to say when a company sends out a press release it's not meant for me or you it's meant for shareholders to pump up stock prices. unfortunately it's in a way tone deaf to how the american people are worried about families. so here's the way i break it down. ultimately i think it's a high likelihood we need a third immunization with either of the

two mrna vaccines with pfizer biontech and moderna. as good a job as we have done the american people we've failed the rest of the world. africa is totally unvaccinated. latin america is unvaccinated. and southeast asia. new variants will continue to arise. by giving a third immunization we'll develop for antibody, more robust cellular immunity, making us more resilient to variants. the problem with the pfizer release was they specifically said -- and again, even a little bit vague, that we need to get -- do this now because of the delta variant. that's really not true. it looks like the two doses of either of the mrna vaccines gives good protection. they cited israel data showing 64% protection. but it's more than 90 something protection against is serious illness. and the numbers out of the uk and scotland don't back it up. it's much higher. so the company should --

release -- i think the fda and cdc was right to put it back. but it's nuanced because we need a third immunization at some point but not for this particular indication. and then confusing it all is the fact that it was done through emergency use authorization which we've never done for a boost. we need to step up full approval of all vaccines. that has to be a private. >> will that change things for companies where people work at who are now encouraging people to get vaccinated but people saying not getting vaccinated not wearing a mask when i come back to work, too bad for you. my general view if you are not prepared to get vaccinated and not wear a mask it's too bad for you. the company -- no company should have the obligation to have these people come back to work. >> yeah, and this -- and i've been talking to a number of -- i've gotten calls from a number of companies, even some legal counsel from companies. and what they -- they're skittish to demand vaccinations until -- until these are fully approved by the fda, kind of

puts them in a bind. but here is the part, ali, people don't quite understand. it's not only getting vaccinated to protect you. because we need two things to happen. one, you need to vaccinated so you don't go into the icu or hospital. but also we need to reduce community transmission. and that only happens when everybody gets vaccinated, all of the adults and adolescents. this is the problem we see in missouri and arkansas and now heading into louisiana and mississippi and florida. is that you have that 1-2 punch of low vaccination rates and low vax rates and high levels of delta. this is getting people sick. in adolescent cases it's under 20%. we are seeing a lot of sick young people going to the hospital. the problem is the misinformation that's out there that gives only, quote, death rates but this virus does more

than kill. causing long haul debilitating covid including neurological affects. there was a paper from oxford university medical school in the last couple weeks showing people who do develop covid often have significant degeneration in gray matter in the brain. and a young person with a developing brain you have to worry about that. we have an obligation to get vaccinated if you are eligible to prevent you from getting 16 and loved ones. but to halt the community transmission. that's happening in the northeast and massachusetts, vermont, california. it's not going to happen in missouri. it's not happens in arkansas. and it looks like it's not happening in the south this summer. so you're going to see a lot of sick young people. it's tragic and predicted. a predictable. >> and unnecessary. thanks a lot. the codirector at the texas children's hospital center for vaccine development. stay with us. after a quick break we'll go back to charlottesville,

virginia where the city took down the controversial confederate monument of general robert e. lee. getting ready to take down another monument. we'll have a live report from there next. ment we'll have a live report from there next and one we explore. one that's been paved and one that's forever wild. but freedom means you don't have to choose just one adventure. you get both. introducing the wildly civilized all-new 3-row jeep grand cherokee l ♪ ♪ introducing the wildly civilized water? urgh! (rocket ship) hey! hey! heads up. thank you! water tastes like, water. so we fixed it. mio age is just a number. and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health. versus 16 grams in ensure high protein.

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(brad) apartments-dot-com. the most popular place to find a place. welcome back to develop v." developing news out of charlottesville, virginia with, where two confederate statues are being removed. the statue of robert e. lee was hoisted offer the post and trucked away. now awaiting the removal of a

second statue of stonewall jackson happening in the next 30s minutes or so. both key rallying points for the unite the right nationalist rally in 2017 leaving one woman dead and 19 others injured. joining me now is deon hampton on the scene in charlottesville. what is that scene like, deon? >> reporter: yeah i would say tattoo pieces of confederate are being whisked away this morning. about an hour ago robert e. lee, his confederate monument here was taken down and moved away. you can look behind me, you can see that stonewall jackson, these guys both are former confederate generals, both of these are being taken away and city officials plan to store them. still trying to figure out what's done with them from there, possibly sell them or possibly they can go to like a museum, some type of historical institution. maybe placed at some type of war

grounds. but you can see the scene behind me is database maybe you can't. it swelled a lot in the last couple hours. a few hours ago there was maybe a dozen people, supporters of black lives matter, a few professor. but now i would say that the crowd has swelled to about maybe 200 people. you can see the crews behind me it won't be much longer before they remove this and take it away. >> we're keeping a close eye on it. deon thank you for the reporting. deon hampton in charlottesville, virginia. we are awaiting the removal of the stonewall jackson confederate statue. one university's loss is another's huge, huge gain. you may have heard the 10-year saga of my friend. a genius winning journalist. at first, the school declined to offer her tenure for a prestigious role at unc chapel hill. she reclaimed the stoerp.

tiffany cross of the cross connection. what a journey for nicole. you are talking to her and her new partner in education today. >> that's right, i mean you just said it ali with, a decorated journalist, a mcarthur. we thought it was so ridiculous that this pulitzer prize winning tournlist would have to fight for tenure. she went to howard university with my friend. we're talking to them about hbcu life get into critical race theory and more so what this situation taught them about america and this moment of racial reckoning as we call it. interesting we are talking about as the confederate statue is coming down right now. i have another dynamic duo, ali i'm excited about. i'll give you a hint. what have you done for me lately? that's right. it's legendary producers terry

lewis and jimmy jam. we have a packed show. i'm so excited, a great two hours. >> it is. i'm really looking forward to the conversation from nicole. nicole hanna jones has standing today that i think would have found her at any university she wanted to be at all. and her treatise on why she and tanna hassy kwoets at howard is something everybody should read. it's a long letter. it's beautifully written. and it is -- i'm sort of proud to know her in this moment. you my friend tiffany cross be sure to catch tiffany on the cross connection 10:00 a.m. eastern. president biden taking aim at big tech. but our next guest explains why the institutions of american democracy democracy can't stand up to the tech giant threat.

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36 states and the district of columbia filed a lawsuit against google alleging the tech giant violated anti-trust laws and that its google play app store acts like a monopoly. the lawsuit brought by a collection of attorneys general from red and blue states specifically argues that google has taken a 30 peppers commission from android app develops developers for selling their services through the app store. the dwechlers say they have no choice because android is the default operating system on most non-apple smartphones and google has targeted other marketplaces that could compete against it. the suit reads in part instead of producing a better app distribution sferns using barriers and mandates to protect monopoly power and grow supercompetitive revenue. according the plaintiffs the play store distributes over 90% of android apps in america while no other android store has over

5% of the market share. this is now the fourth anti-trust lawsuit brought against google, including one by the justice department. google officials say the lawsuit is meritless and is, quote, strange that a group of state attorneys general chose to file a lawsuit attacking a system providing more openness and choice than others. joining me now joyce advance former united states foreign in alabama. msnbc contributor and cohost of the sisters in law podcast. also roj are mcnamee, co-founder for the center of humane technologies zuked, waking up to the facebook catastrophe. we talked four years ago, roger, about the dangerous some of the tech companies are putting out there. and you've talked about this one in particular, the anti-competitive nature of what they do. on several fronts, not just the selling of the apps. what do you think about in? a lawsuit that's been brought by attorneys general not just of

one party, alleging anti-trust anti-competitive behavior. >> ali, great to be back on. thank you. first of all the anti-trust law in the united states was originally created to further competition. essentially to allow procedureship to happen which would result not just in lower prices for consumers but much more choice. there was recognition back at the turn of the 20th century that when economic power gets concentrated, that's really bad for personal liberty and terrible for democracy. and that went out ever fashion in the '80s. ever since we lived in a world where large companies were allowed to pretty much do whatever they want. and there is an increasing awareness in policy circles and now in government that that is harming democracy and it's harming the civil liberties of are our citizens. and so there is an attempt to try to restore some balance. that's not going very well. and it's not a surprise. we've lost the muscle tone for this kind of regulation.

and the problem that we have at the moment is that our government was designed with lots of points of veto in it. you know, you need to pass a law. then you need a presidential administration that wants to enforce the law. and then you need courts that support the law. at the moment there is just too many elements of our policy making system aligned with power. aligned with large corporations against citizens. and this is a problem we're dealing with until either we fix it or until we lose our democracy. >> but, you know, joyce, it's interesting, because aligned with power is a good way to say it. this shouldn't actually be republican or democrat, right? pro capitalists smub able to go out there and say that anti-competitive stuff actually crushes capitalism. it's not good. you will get some massive companies out there. but what you lose is that entrepreneurial spirit, the ability for small companies to get out there and compete when you have monopolies. so i -- on one hand i'm hearted

by the fact this is bipartisan. but we have to understand that some regulation is necessary when it comes to the tech companies. it's something that hasn't been as fully embraced across party lines. >> well, this issue of and i trust enforcement and roger lays is it out i think well talking about the loss of the muscle tone that we need in order to be effective as government regulators and through the court system. the issue here really comes sharply into focus when we look at it through the lens of tech and of -- particularly of the internet platforms, which is essentially a regulation-free zone in so many ways. the issue is not a bipartisan one. the heart of our system of capitalism is competition. in many ways competition gets squeezed out in the absence of smart enforcement, not enforcement that goes overboard and inhibits development, but enforcement that supports the sort of competition our system works best under.

so this sort of lawsuit is an important step. unfortunately, these lawsuits have not been met with great success in the courts recently. and it's an interesting tie-in with joe biden's action this woke announcing a large 72-point plan designed to reinvigorate anti-trust enforcement. >> which is interesting because the large 72-point plan, roger, talks about -- goes beyond tech. talks about cheaper drugs, fairer airline fees, do it yourself iphone repairs you can go somewhere else to get the phone repaired. it's actually a big deal that the biden administration has come forward and said, we're going to try and bring competition back to places that seem to have, as you say, lost the muscle for it. and bring back fair regulation that encouraging competition, which results in lower prices or better access for consumers. >> this is such an important move by the biden administration. i would describe it as an absolutely necessary first step.

but by no means enough, because as you know, executive orders can be rescinded by later administrations. and they work within the constraints of whatever the current laws and whatever the courts will allow. and so with this step you're going to see something really important, which is remember that in capitalism, the goal is not is not to have a small number of huge companies but a constant flow of large and small. the reason anti-trust is important is because it's like a video game. you have won the game and important to get a prize and start over and that's what this is about. this is the most pro growth form of government regulation and need it and also with respect to tech we need to have laws that require safety. the products these days are designed to exploit human weakness. we see that in artificial intelligence and bio metric

scanning and that surveillance so you see this with internet platforms. we can't permit that. we need a right to privacy. the issue is not the companies are taking your data. it is that they take everybody's data and can manipulate populations as we saw with the insurrection on january 6 where in fact what happened there was that those people were sold and completely artificial reality and then convinced that that reality made them patriots and they should go and attack the seat of the government. that kind of stuff is good for business but that's obviously terrible for america and need law that is protect us from companies doing that. >> you teed up the next conversation perfectly. stick around. we'll have more to discuss about that very matter after the break. ...and that second right before the first tear comes... ...what?! pizza on a bagel-we can all agree with that.

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this week the twice impeached former president announced a lawsuit against facebook, twitter and google because they banned him following the january 6 insurrection. in a "wall street journal" op-ed trump writes in effect big tech is illegally deputized by the censorship arm of the u.s. government. that should alarm you no matter your political persuasion end quote why the lawsuits are likely doomed to fail and not stopped trump from trying to raise money. back with me are former u.s.

attorney joyce vance. i heard the lead lawyer for this lawsuit on fox the other day. it was gibberish. he seems to have a basic misunderstanding of the first amendment is and upon whom the obligations of the first amendment fall. as much as i have complaints about google, facebook and twitter, this isn't actually the right lawsuit. >> that's right. so your first amendment free speech rights are guaranteed to you as against the government. the government can't prevent you from exercising the free speech right. if you walk into the local grocery store they can prohibit certain forms of activity inside the businesses and by the same token facebook and twitter can decide if you engage in speech

they don't want they can ban you. this lawsuit i think if you look up frivolous lawsuit in a dictionary there's a picture of the complaints in this lawsuit. it is clearly more along the lines of a fund raising stunt than a legal issue. >> roger, it's frivolous and silly. a little bit of everybody who thinks someone's going after facebook and google and twitter. you yourself have said that those companies, social media companies, are antithetical to democracy but this isn't the reason why. >> no. this is an attempt by trump to change the subject because the state of new york is -- and the city of new york coming after him. he needs to change the subject. the issue with the companies is that they have been the communications platform for the revival of right wing extremism, mainstreaming of white

supremacy. facebook was essentially the platform on which the insurrection was organized and then effectively televised. i look at these things and trump is nuts, but there are see serious problems in these countries. we'll probably lose the window for change. it is essential that the country have a sense of urgency. we have to care about democracy. >> joyce, what does good legislation or good action look like against these companies for the things that they have done that have been damaging that isn't the donald trump lawsuit? >> so the issue here is that we're behind the gun and when we should have been thinking about good regulation ten years ago there was no appetite to do it. but the reality is now because as roger says this is a persuasive way that people not

only consume news but misinformation and simultaneously can plan action there needs to be a thoughtful, deliberate, comprehensive strategy that promotes the good usage of the platforms to continue while having some forms of sensible regulation in place. interesting to note that facebook in the absence of any form of regulation created a board that actually evaluates its actions like the decision to kick the former president off the facebook platform and so even the companies themselves sensed the need for a regulation in this space. the question is whether congress has the appetite to engage in meaningful action. >> let's hope they do. what a treat to have this important discussion with the two of you right at the end of my show. thank you to both of you as always for being to willing to

come on and make us smarter about these issues. joyce vance is former u.s. attorney and roger mcnamie is an early google and facebook investor. a band member of moon alice. a quick correction. we discussed speculation in legal circles that investigators might turn to the adult children of donald trump amid the weisselberg indictment just the trump question in question are donnal jr., ivanka and eric that held roles in the family business and mistakenly showed a photo of tiffany. that was a mistake and regret the error. catch me tomorrow for a special edition of velshi. tomorrow morning for the virgin galactic launch at 8:00 a.m. eastern. do not go anywhere.

there is an en fuego edition coming up soon. ♪♪ good morning, everybody. we begin today with breaking news out of charlottesville, virginia. moments ago the robert e. lee statue that sparked that deadly march back in 2017 removered. four years ago dozens were injured and a woman was killed in that violence. crews are working to remove another statue dedicated to general stonewall jackson. the other big story this morning, the latest round in the fight to protect voting rights in texas. state lawmakers are holding public hearings on