way, very appropriate. have a great evening. good evening, everyone. we do begin "the reidout" with the moral case for protecting the right to vote. i mean it's unconscionable that 46 years after one democratic president put the moral weight of the office of the presidency behind expanding voting rights, another would have to do it again. but amid republicans' draconian voter suppression efforts all across the country, president biden today did just today. speaking in philadelphia, an epicenter of republicans' anti-democratic efforts in 2020 and to this day, biden eviscerated the claims of the disgraced former president. >> no other election has ever been held under such scrutiny and such high standards. the big lie is just that, a big lie. the denial of full and free elections is the most unamerican thing that any of us can imagine, the most undemocratic,

the most unpatriotic, and sadly not unprecedented. time and again we've weathered threats to the right to vote in free and fair elections. each time we founding a way to overcome. the 21st century jim crow assault is real. it's unrelenting. and we're going to challenge it vigorously. >> biden mirrored lyndon johnson's voting rights speech in 1965 invoking the civil rights anthem we shall overcome. in assailing what he called the greatest threat to democracy since the civil war. but biden didn't offer much in the way of a plan. when president johnson delivered his speech to a joint session of congress, he was urging passage of the voting rights act. a law that's now essentially dead. and today texas democrats continued their fight against republican voter suppression efforts in their state after more than 50 elected democrats left texas last night to block the passage of new voter suppression laws.

the longest serving black woman in the texas legislature outlined exactly what's at stake for her constituents if new federal laws -- if state laws are enacted. >> when i look at the african-american museum, i thought about the struggle my people fought in this country to get the right to vote. and that right is sacred to my constituents that i represent back in houston, texas. i'm not going to be a hostage, that my constituents' rights be stripped from them. we have fought too long and too hard in this country. >> around the time those texas democrats finished speaking, texas house republicans voted to send law enforcement to track them down under warrant of arrest. texas law enforcement has no jurisdiction in the nation's capital, so that remains a performative exercise. republican governor greg abbott has vowed to have them arrested when they return to the state. the texas democrats plan to stay in washington as long as it takes to kill the new voter

suppression measures back home and to push for federal voting rights legislation in congress, meeting with senators today. and vice president kamala harris, the administration's lead on voting rights. but neither president biden nor vice president harris addressed the elephant in the room when it comes to federal legislation today, the filibuster. even as some texas lawmakers echoed calls for a carve-out to advance federal voting rights legislation. biden called on congress to restore parts of the voting rights act gutted by the supreme court in 2013 and again just two weeks ago. >> puts the burden back on congress to restore the voting rights act to its intended strength. as soon as congress passes the for the people act and the john lewis voting advancement act, i will sign it and let the whole world see it. that will be an important moment. >> joining me now is alex pa deowe and chris turner.

i want to start with you, representative turner. first i have to talk to you about this threat to have you all arrested when you return to texas and supposedly to track you down like the fugitive slave act is still in force now. what do you make of that, those threats? >> good evening, joy. great to be with you. they're empty threats. as you stated, the governor -- the state of texas doesn't have jurisdiction outside the state of texas. but moreover, governor abbott is just simply empty bluster. he does not have any authority to come after us. you know, governor abbott has had a problem lately understanding the separation of powers. he's the executive branch, we're the legislative branch. he has tried to defund the legislative branch by vetoing our appropriations and now he's threatening to arrest lawmakers, neither of which he has the constitutional authority to do. the texas house of representatives does have a rule

that allows the speaker and the remaining members there to compel a quorum. that is within their right. they authorized warrants, they did not issue warrants. and so that's -- but the reality is, it's a civil matter, it's not a criminal matter -- >> yeah. >> -- because our members have committed no crime. fund mentally what we're doing is working for our constituents and fighting for democracy. >> i know that we have a d.c. democrat that works on capitol hill on with us but showing democrats on the hill how to fight, you met with the vice president today, part of the group that met with her. did you leave that meeting feeling that you have a commit meant that democrats in d.c. will fight as y'all are fighting? y'all are taking the risks that i think the base of the democratic party wants to see taken all around the country. did you leave there feeling that you have a commit meant from the white house to do something to make sure voting rights pass federally? including getting rid of the

filibuster? >> well, we had a great meeting with vice president harris, and she reiterated her support and the president's support for seeing both these laws pass the congress and get to the president's desk. that's not in doubt. >> yeah, we already know they support that. what do they say -- i don't mean to interrupt you, i apologize. we know they support it. biden gave a great speech today. what did they say they were going to actually do? >> well, they want to continue working with us and amplify our voices and asked us to amplify theirs. we need to create the pressure and the public demand for the senate to be able to pass both these laws and get them to the president's desk. and we briefed the vice president on what we've been doing. we've had a delegation of members working the senate side today. we had a group of our members meet with senator padilla earlier today and some other senators and we'll continue to do that the next several days. our message is very simple, and

we told the vice president this. we have committed, the democrats in the texas house, to running out the clock in this special session. that will end august 7th to kill this bill. we're going to use that time to spread the word about what a crisis this is for our democracy. we can't do that forever, obviously, we have to go back to texas. so we need congress and the u.s. senate now to pass hr-1 which has already passed in the house and we need the john lewis voting rights act. >> let me go to you, senator padilla. you are a newer member of the senate so perhaps this intractability of it hasn't kicked in with you yet. but this is the reality. these representatives from texas are very brave and they are showing the meaning of the word fight. as you said, they can't do it forever and there's a deadline when the august recess will kick in for the united states senate. you know, when i was a young person, congress used its power of compulsion to force my state,

colorado, to lower their speed limit to 55. they sure didn't want to do it and they said you don't get your highway funds if you don't do it. there's a lot of power of compulsion that the federal government has. i think a lot of people watching this show do not understand why the powers of compulsion are not being used to force these states back, to push them back or to get the federal voting legislation passed? >> there's only one reason why it hasn't been done already and we'll say it again. it's the "f" word, the filibuster. so put me down in the column of abolishing the filibuster or at least carve out an exemption, whatever you want to call it, for the sake of saving our fundamental democracy. i really do commend the texas legislators that are here making the case in the nation's capital, not just through the press but for policy makers. the last time they were here, it made a difference. prior to their first visit we

didn't even have joe manchin supporting to debate the for the people act on the floor of the senate. their presence absolutely made an impact. we got to a 50-50 vote, still 10 shy of the 60-vote threshold required by the filibuster but maybe their example of what they're bringing can continue to move not just the hearts and minds of the general public but members of congress as well. i've got to tell you, as we're trying to influence the public and highlight what's happening, it's not just texas. you saw the sham of an audit in phoenix, arizona. you've seen what's happened in georgia in recent months and in alabama and in iowa. voter suppression is happening across the country and that's why, yes, congress needs to act. >> but here's the thing, senator. you have maybe ten senators who want to keep the filibuster. they seem to be clinging to that more than they are to democracy. they don't seem to have any

urgency. they don't have the urgency you just described. why would you go along voting for their infrastructure bill. manchin really wants that. why don't some of you senators say you don't get our votes on the precious infrastructure bill that you need for your politics if you don't give up the filibuster? or why not say there's got to be something kyrsten sinema wants other than to be on tv and mock her own base. why don't you say to her you want my vote on this? you don't get it. you don't get your 50, you don't get your special stuff unless we get what we want. i don't understand why senators are not using the leverage they have over the recalcitrant ten or however many of them there are to say you don't get your way unless we get help on voting rights. it's more important than anything else. >> look, i may be new to the senator but i ain't new to politics, so don't think that conversations along those lines may not be happening as we speak. but the point i'm trying to make

is with the presence of these heroes from texas, it is making a difference. and so the last go-around it moved at least one or two. this go-around hopefully it's another two, whether it's the substance of the john lewis voting rights act or hr-1/s-1 or maybe the rules for the filibuster itself. it is making an impact. we need to hear from them more and hear from other states. congress needs to hear from the american people. between president biden's speech, the courage of these texas legislators and more of us speaking out and bringing specific examples of the harm here. one of the compelling examples that the texas representatives made is the elimination of drive-through voting. what does that mean for voters with disabilities? and don't tell me that in texas it's okay because they can vote by mail because you know how restricted it is to be able to vote by mail in texas. so you have to bring out these

examples to exemplify the true voter suppression jim crow modern era that we're talking about here in state after state is all the more reason why we need these reforms to be done in congress. >> representative turner, is that compelling to you? because it strikes me -- i hate to say this, but it doesn't feel like people like manchin and sinema care about that. that doesn't seem to move them. so if you all are not able to commit -- have you had a chance to talk with manchin or sinema, have you met with either of them, representative turner? >> so the last time i was in washington about three weeks ago, i did have an opportunity to meet with senator manchin, right before i last came on your show, i think. >> yeah. >> after that meeting, and i won't say it was all because of our meeting, but after that meeting the senator did ending up supporting moving forward on s-1, the for the people act and

of course it was blocked by the filibuster but there were 50 democratic votes for that but there is forward progress. but that forward progress is halted again. so we are going to visit with senator manchin again this week, some of our members will. we are hoping to meet with senator sinema as well and other senators on the hill. just what senator padilla was saying, we want our members to tell you exactly what republicans in texas are trying to do. banning drive-through voting, banning overnight voting, empowering partisan poll watchers to literally watch over someone's shoulder while they're casting a ballot and try to intimidate them. republicans have used poll watchers for decades to intimidate primarily african-american and hispanic voters. now they want to give them more powers to do more intimidation. it's wrong, it's sick, it's anti-democratic and that's the message we're trying to spread, how bad this voter suppression legislation is which is why we

need strong federal legislation and we need it now. >> absolutely. i'm going to give you one more sort of go at this, senator padilla. what do you think ends up -- you know these people. obviously your fellow californian is now the vice president of the united states, but you also know these other senators. what is it going to take to get them to give up the filibuster? >> look, i think it's continuing to point out the hypocrisy. and here's the last thing i'll mention for anybody, either side of the aisle who says we can't move forward because it should be done on a bipartisan basis. look what's happening not just in texas but in state houses across the country. these voter suppression measures advancing are only being done on a partisan basis, republican partisan voter suppression. congress needs to respond and time is of the essence. >> yeah. and they can't keep asking voters of color to vote for them if they won't even fight for the same voters and fight for them to keep their rights.

maybe that will do it. why would anyone want to fight for you to keep your power if you won't fight for us to keep our right to vote. it really makes no sense. senator alex padilla and texas representative chris turner, please convey to all of your colleagues how grateful the country is you're fighting for our democracy. up next, a health official fired for promoting vaccinations. it begs the question, what the hell is going on in tennessee? meanwhile republicans in texas put an actual bounty on the heads of anyone who helps a woman fulfill her constitutional right to have an abortion. plus rudy giuliani's election night strategery that even trump's third-rate staff said was pathetic. "the reidout" continues after this. c. "the reidout" continues after this age before beauty? why not both? visibly diminish wrinkled skin in... crepe corrector lotion... only from gold bond.

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has reached a fevered pitch in tennessee where the department of health is halting out vaccine outreach, not just for coronavirus for all diseases. this comes after the state fired its top vaccine official over her department's outreach efforts to promote covid vaccinations among teenagers. outreach that, mind you, could literally prevent teenagers from dying or passion the virus on to their parents or teachers as they reopen schools amid a surge in the delta variant. tennessee, where only 38% of the population is vaccinated. the casualties of the republican death culture war don't even end there. a high school teacher in sullivan county, tennessee, who is tenured, by the way, is facing termination for teaching a poem about white privilege and for assigning this essay which examination how donald trump employed whiteness to dismantle the legacy of america's first black president, barack obama.

this is what that teacher told the school board in march when it accused him of not showing opposing viewpoints. >> it takes more than 45 minutes to talk about some of these issues, like racism. you can't cover that in one class. and what's the opposite -- the opposite of racism is racism. how am i supposed to show an opposing viewpoint to that. i don't consider white privilege an opinion, i consider it a fact just like the pythagorean theorem. >> just because you consider it a fact don't make it a fact. >> it's 2021 and not just in the state that brought us the scopes trial in an earlier era. witch hunts against teachers who teach facts. it leads us to wonder what the hell is going on in tennessee and frankly in america. joining me now to help make sense of this is tiffany cross,

host of "the cross connection" right here on msnbc. i'm losing my ability to display composure. let's go back to this vaccine outreach. according to tennessee's now new rules, if the health department wants to issue any information about vaccines, staff are instructed to strip their logo off the documents. the health department will stop all covid-19 vaccine events on school property. they won't remind teens to get their second dose. teens will be excluded from the post cards. basically they're saying don't protect kids from covid. make this make sense. >> i wish i could, joy. this is so ridiculous. so the fact that she was fired because there is a legal doctrine that says if you are 14 years or older, you can get vaccinated without your parents' permission. this is the problem that they had with that. they are so married to this crazy maga madman they are willing to die for him. so the local officials have to

contend with false information, disinformation on social media, political influence based in nothing but ignorance. and it's creating havoc there. they are averaging 460 cases a day there while vaccination rates have stalled. i just want to say this and i want to talk to the folks at home because there are people in our community, joy, who are still very frightened about this vaccine. i want to say to you if you are in the minority community, if you're a person of color, the fact that the only people who are aligning with your point of view right now are in this maga madman mob, please do reconsider your position. >> 100%. don't let them kill you. >> right. >> i think at this point, i feel the same way. the people that i have true empathy for are the people in black and brown communities, indigenous communities, who are literally because they're being led in states by people who are part of the cult, and it is a death cult because they are willing to die. they seem to want to get covid and they want to spread covid and they want the right to spread covid. police, black folks, brown folks, people of color, don't

let them kill you. let's just show you the nexus here in these ideologies. here are the 19 states with bans on critical race theory. this is the map up on screen. that's that map. keep that in your head for a moment. now let's look at the 30 states that have less than 30% vaccinated. do you see how they're similar? now let's move on to this high school teacher. let me let you listen to -- this is matthew hahn and he's tenured in sullivan county, tennessee, facing termination. here he is talking about donald trump. take a listen. >> we elected someone who spoke like this to the highest office in the land and now we're upset that an african-american author is quoting that president.

>> that's not a quote. >> it's kind of a double standard. >> so he's talking -- he's talking about the piece about the first black president. i assigned that to my students at syracuse. it didn't break them. what he was upset about is that he quoted something that steve bannon and trump said and it was quoted in there and they didn't like it. >> it's kind of insulting, so insulting that he is even mentioned with these people. somebody who said just because you believe it's fact don't make it a fact. it's really unfortunate, joy. ike the bigger case because we could easily get caught up with this one teacher but this is a fight with the school board. so a lot of conservatives who want to run for office, they use local school boards as their launching pad and there's actually data behind this that

people who are elected to school boards are typically white, wealthier, almost carpet baggers who insert themselves in this. then they get to the state legislature and obliterate voting rights. your viewers already know how ridiculous the argument is to make. but the bigger strategy point is how do you stop this from happening at the school board level because there has to be policy to prevent this kind of thing and that is the key. if they can take away our history and rewrite the narrative, then they take away the ability to speak a truthful story about this country. i sometimes wonder is it that they don't know or that they don't want everybody else to know. i really do think they know. they know what they have done but they don't want other people to know. it's very strategic the way that they have streamlined a new narrative. there's a case in connecticut where they falsely say that the enslaved people were like workers. in alabama there are textbooks that the slavery was the happiest time in the country. so these are the things that

they're indoctrinating these kids with. we both got two educations, what the school taught us and what we got at home which formed our world view in a much more i'd say comprehensive way than what our counterparts had. >> well, the irony is they're proving the piece right. what he said was he empowered white americans to say we're going to use the power of our whiteness to obliterate the existence of the first black president and they're proving his point. they're also driving a lot of teachers out of the business. people are saying they're quitting they're under so much pressure and saying openly, i think there was a piece in the "national review" take over school board. take over the schools. we get the culture back. >> one of the leading intellectuals in this country, his name is in this fight with half-witted, intellectual curiosity on a school board.

>> tiffany cross, thank you very much. you should watch "the cross connection" every weekend on msnbc. a quick note, msnbc is celebrating its 25th anniversary this week and msnbc daily is featuring 25 days of essays on important talks from msnbc authors, hosts and correspondents. today you can read my thoughts on how our history informs our present. you can read it now at msnbc.com/the next25. still ahead, choked myself up, abortion rights groups are fighting back against a new texas law that, get this, you can't make this stuff up. it deputizes citizens as abortion bounty hunters. alexis mcgill johnson joins us next. start your day with crest 3d white and from mochaccinos to merlot, your smile will always be brilliant. crest 3d white brilliance. 100% stain removal, 24 hour stain resistance to lock in your whitest smile. crest. the #1 toothpaste brand in america.

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and now they have reached a new low in texas. the state's new law not only bans abortions after six weeks before most women even know that they're pregnant, but effectively deputizes private citizens to become bounty hunters. instead of relying on the government to enforce the ban, which is right now unconstitutional under roe v. wade, it allows anybody to sue abortion providers and anyone who helps a woman to obtain an abortion with a bounty of $10,000 if they're successful. as jennifer rubin points out, the party that's suppose lead faithful to the constitution and law and order is taking refuge in kafkaesque rule-making that empowers individuals to harass, intimidate and confuse americans. this will create absolute chaos in texas and irreparably harm texans in need of abortion services. i'm joined by alexis mcgill johnson. thank you for being on, ms.

mcgill-johnson. i thought i lost my ability to be surprised, i thought it was gone, and then this happened. your thoughts on this law. >> i mean the cruelty is the point here, joy. i think you said it so plainly, right? this is a state that supposedly loves defending the constitution, right? loves protecting rights. and yet it's a state where they don't even love thy neighbor. they're talking about sue thy neighbor. they're talking about pitting family members against family members, friends against friends and encouraging anyone in literally any state who does not believe in abortion or, you know, just needs $10,000 to go after anyone who is supporting someone who is getting access to abortion. that could be an abortion provider, it could be a health center, it could be a fund, it could be a donor, it could also be an uber driver. who knows where the bounds end. an ex-boyfriend, right? the extremity of this law makes

absolutely no sense whatsoever. >> let me just read a little bit from the -- this is from the planned parenthood lawsuit, it will force abortion providers and others who are sued to spend massive amounts of time and money to defend themselves in which the deck is heavily stacked against them. the burdens will fall on black, latinx and indigenous patients who because of racism encounter barriers to obtaining health care. it's not just the health care providers, it's the uber driver or lyft driver who drives a woman to the health care center. it's having neighbors spying on women who, hey, wasn't jessica pregnant last week? she's not pregnant now. i think i might turn her in and get myself $10,000. hey, you know, let me spy on my in-law, you know. she was pregnant. how pregnant was she actually? we like to throw around "handmaid's tale" as a reference point for what the republican party has deteriorated into. but now they decided hold my

beer, we're just going to go ahead and do it. people informing on people. what are we, the soviet union in the '80s? keep talking, because i'll just keep yelling. >> no, it feels so dystopian already, right? and we know -- look, 85% of patients at planned parenthood health centers come in after six weeks to get access to abortion and that's normal because six weeks is very, very early in a pregnancy. and so most people don't even know they are pregnant before six weeks. and so now you are creating a universe where anybody can be incentivized with a perverse incentive to come in and to actually say i'm going to figure out what happened to becky's pregnancy and did she terminate it or not and go seek information in order to get this bounty. the texas state doesn't want to enforce the law. that's what's so important here. they decided that rather than enforce the law themselves, they

are going to conscript every day americans to come in and judges to basically drive this strategy for them, right, and to engage in their rigged proceedings. it makes no sense really. >> and if somebody had a miscarriage, for instance, and went into the hospital for a miscarriage, in theory if they take a lyft, if somebody accused them or the lyft driver looked back and thought, hey, i wonder if this person had an abortion. it literally turns citizens into spies on each other. let me ask you about planned parenthood's long-term strategery. there's someone who went to school with amy coney barrett and knows for sure she will overturn roe v. wade. it appears this right-wing court will kill it and get rid of it. what is the plan? >> look, we are going to fight as hard as we can with all of our partners, with all of our

state partners to make sure that we are -- that we have a provider response. we know in many states roe is gone. they have continued with the number of restrictions we've seen just this year, over 600, to strip away access. put in these waiting periods, continue to shame and stigmatize people who are providing abortions and patients themselves. we've seen it during covid. we know what the world looks like without roe. what's dangerous about this particular case is that if we are not able to block sb-8 in texas, if we are not able to block what should be a regular unconstitutional ban, every six-week ban has been blocked, it means that 26 states are poised to follow in a copycat manner this same strategy. so that is why we felt it was so important with our partners at center for reproductive rights, at clu and women's health to

come in and say we have got to stop this here in texas and make sure it doesn't flourish throughout the country while we also fight that provider response and mobilization response around what will happen -- what we hope does not happen in mississippi but we need to prepare for. >> or federally if republicans get their hands on the senate and house again. they could pass a federal one and we're back in -- in 1850, you could make yourself a little money if you'd catch somebody who ran away from enslavement. this country has had a lot of weird history and it ain't over yet. alexis mcgill-johnson, thank you very much and good luck. god speed. if you thought trump's big lie originated with orange jim jones himself. it's tonight's absolute worst. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. i've got moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer. ♪ ♪ i feel free to bare my skin yeah, that's all me. ♪ ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand nothing on my skin, ♪

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we've talked a lot about the big lie that fueled the january

6th insurrection and the extraordinary lengths that republicans are willing to go to to promote and defend it. now we're learning that the big lie was actually hatched on election night, even before the results were in. and like most bad ideas, it began with rudy giuliani. that's according to the new book "i alone can fix it, donald trump's catastrophic final year" by carol leonnig and philip rucker. they write on the evening of november 3rd as members of the trump campaign awaited election results, giuliani started to cause a commotion. he was telling other guests he had come up with a strategy for trump. some people thought giuliani may have been drinking too much. the new york mayor told trump lawyer told him to, quote, just say we won. his grand plan was to just say trump won, state after state, based on nothing. at the time even trump's top staff thought his argument was incoherent and irresponsible. we now know that trump took giuliani's advice, which

eventually cost rudy his law license and the big lie continues to poison our politics to this day. trump and his allies are so invested in it, they're now trying to portray the capitol siege as an act of patriotism. and most disturbing of all, they are trying to exploit the death of one particular insurrectionist, one ashli babbitt, for political purposes, turning her into a martyr for a righteous cause. rudy giuliani took that phony narrative to a whole new level yesterday, baselessly claiming that the shooting was part of a conspiratorial plot involving the capitol police. >> this was a completely phony operation here. they tried -- they tried to take this unfortunate trespass, which shouldn't have been done, and make it into an insurrection. first of all, this is the only insurrection in which a shot wasn't fired. the only shot fired is the one shot by the police officer at an unarmed woman, which they don't

want to talk about. so there's a whole plot behind this and i'm not sure i understand all of it. >> okay, maybe he's drinking again because that's not just in incoherent, it's illogical. there's about as much evidence to kill this one insurrectionist as there is china fed in bamboo ballots and they fed the real trump votes to chickens. what happened on january 6th is well documented, it's on tape. as "the new york times" showed, babbitt was part of the violent mob trying to force their way into the house chamber at the time that lawmakers were literally fleeing for their lives. i should warn you what happened next is very graphic and disturbing. police had their guns drawn but babbitt ignored their warnings. she attempted to climb through the broken window into the speaker's lobby and that's when an officer opened fire, firing a single shot. in doing so that officer stopped the mob who would have inevitably followed her.

he very likely prevented them from reaching the members of congress that he is sworn to protect. that is the job of law enforcement literally. and as the video clearly shows, that officer did what was necessary under difficult and unpredictable circumstances. so giuliani's claim that the shooting was somehow orchestrated is frankly unhinged. if anything, babbitt was a victim of the big lie that giuliani helped create. that's what makes him tonight's absolute worst. but it's also ironic that rudy, rudy giuliani of all people, would side with a capitol insurrectionist over law enforcement, and that is coming up next. oming up nex t. oh! are you using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? sorry? well, since you asked. it finds discounts and policy recommendations, so you only pay for what you need. limu, you're an animal! who's got the bird legs now?

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rudy giuliani dined out for years on the moniker of america's mayor. but talk to any black or brown new yorker and they'll tell you a very different story. during his two terms in office

giuliani gave the new york police department carte blanche to run roughshod in the city's communities of color with zero accountability. it all started in 1992 when he joined 10,000 rioters, nearly all white, off-duty nypd officers, who were participating in a patrolman's benevolent association demonstration against then mayor david dinkins' call for a civilian complaint review board. candidate giuliani joined those officers, some of whom chanted the n word, cursing the city's first black mayor through a bullhorn. in 1999 mayor giuliani ardently defended the police department after adam yue dial yue, an unarmed black immigrant who worked as a vendor, was shot 41 times as he reached for his i.d. the police officers involved in the shooting were acquitted of the p crime. a few weeks later an unarmed security guard from brooklyn was waiting for a taxi outside a nightclub when undercover detectives approached him and sought to buy drugs. he said he didn't sell drugs. the cops insisted. dorz mand shoved one away and the officer shot him in the

chest. he bled to death moments later. amid furious protests giuliani rushed to the officer's defense by releasing dorzmand's sealed juvenile record which had nothing to do with the incident. why? because he felt he had a duty to defend the police. >> i'm giving you facts that you resist printing that tend to suggest that the police officers may have been justified. >> reverend al sharpton pushed back at giuliani at the time, saying he was hiding the facts. >> they decided to discount contrary evidence. >> a few darius later giuliani told reporters that he had no regrets about what he did. joining me now reverend al sharpton national action network president and host of politics nation on msnbc. and michael daly, special correspondent for the daily beast. thank you for being here. and rev, i'm so glad you were available to talk. i know you're in philadelphia where the president was speaking. but i just had to get your take

on rudy giuliani suddenly deciding that he's against the police when it comes to capitol police officers saving the lives of members of congress when you know his history, i lived in new york in his era, that -- there was never a police shooting, particularly of somebody black, that he didn't support. what do you make of his change of mind? >> absolutely. i think this is among the most despicable things that i've seen him do because you outlined two cases that were celebrated cases while he was mayor. don't forget, in the diallou shooting you're referring to, shot at 41 times, that this young man was going in his home. he had the key in his door, in the foyer of his building, and was unarmed. giuliani's talking about somebody unarmed. and giuliani defended them. there was this protest we had for 11 days hundreds of people go and lay down in front of one

police plaza including the former mayor dave dinkins and all of us were arrested on a daily basis. he refused to even meet with the black officials to discuss the case, including the sitting state controller at the time, h. carl mccall. so all of a sudden he discovers law enforcement shooting unarmed police? it is clearly for him to try and in some way get around this insurrection, get around this attempted coup d'etat, and to misuse the death of this woman to try and in some way castigate those officers and not deal with the fact that they in fact were dealing with an insurrection to stop the legitimate certification of the vote of the american people. and it's certainly something that is totally contrary to his record as the mayor of new york and the rest of his life. he always said don't question police, even when they kill

unarmed people. >> i mean, michael daly, you've covered rudy giuliani. it was so bad that there were people who felt that he was so much more in favor of police that he neglected the fire department, that they didn't get the good radios before 9/11. he was all in for whatever police did. the abner louima case. i could go on and on. what do you think of seeing him now suddenly turn on the police because he's so for trump? >> you look at the dorsmand case. he said the juvenile record? that was he was 11 years old and he punched a kid in a fight over a quarter. he tried to make that into a crime. he said he's no altar boy. well, guess what? he was an altar boy. literally. and he was buried at a church where he was an altar boy. so his reflex was not just to put the cops -- but to slime the person that was murdered. and here you have a situation where he's elevating her. and i'm not saying that she deserves anything other than

that. but the lesson here is rudy giuliani was never pro police. he was pro rudy giuliani. and i think he's not even a white supremacist. he's a rudy supremacist. in the way i think he's a trump supremacist. and with both of them they talk about the cops and they like this and this. when it gets down to it you had you will these police officers savagely assaulted and they act like it didn't happen. what that means is that neither one of them was ever actually pro police. neither one of them was actually in support of law and order. which means it was always just about themselves. surprise surprise. >> i think that's so true. and rev, you know donald trump and rudy giuliani very well. that seems just absolutely inalterably true. they were on the side of police when it was vep. they really don't care about them or anybody else, right? >> it's only about them. it's only about them. and i think that what people need to understand around the

nation that watch you is that the dorsmand case, the louima case as well as the case of diallo, they were not in the middle of a violent situation, let alone an insurrection. they were people that were shot and killed unarmed when there was no incident that the police were responding to. they were responding to an insurrection at the capitol. i'm not saying this young lady should die. i'm not at all castigating this young lady. but we are talking about a police reaction to an insurrection where there was clear and present danger to members of congress and members of the senate. and the vice president of the united states, by the way, which was there, a vice president. with dorsmand, diallo and louima there was no violent incident. they were responding to nothing, in their own imagination. and rudy giuliani defended those police. >> and michael daly, they were also responding to the fact that rudy giuliani had this

plainclothes police force that was running roughshod throughout new york, hunting for drug-related crimes. right? this was something rudy giuliani wanted done. >> yeah. if you look at poor patrick dorsmand, he's 25 years old, he's worked all week. he's tired. he wants to get a cab home. he wasn't waiting for a cab. he's trying to get a cab. he's black and one yellow cab after another goes past him. so then after that happens some guy comes up and says he wants some drugs. he wanted to sell me some drugs. oh, he's coming up to me because i'm black. first i can't get a cab because i'm black and this guy's coming up to me because i'm black. so he gets a little cranky. all he did is say a couple of words. next then you know the guy's partner shoots and kills him. >> last word to you, rev. what do you make of the people who tell black folks who get killed by police if he had just complied? in this case this woman was not complying.

she was defying an officer and committing an insurrection. but they're saying she's supposed to be a martyr. >> i think they are trying to make a martyr of a cause that didn't exist. let us remember. they were in the middle of an insurrection. whether the lady should have been killed or not is a total different subject. they were in the middle of an insurrection. >> that's right. >> and the officers had a duty to protect the people -- >> and they want to out this officer's identity, which would put that officer in jeopardy. reverend al sharpton, michael daly, thank you. that is tonight's "reid out." "all in" with chris hayes starts now. tonight on "all in" -- >> the big lie is just that, a big lie. >> the president outlines the greatest threat to democracy since the civil war. >> stand up for god's sake and help prevent this concerted effort to undermine