vote on a bipartisan infrastructure bill, meaning this week actually could be infrastructure week. i've traveled to portland, oregon, to speak with a group of people to find out how infrastructure affects their daily lives. hear their thoughts on the two bills moving through congress, and why they're taking issue with republicans who say human infrastructure is too expensive. also, i sat down with transportation secretary pete buttigieg as he hit the road to promote biden's infrastructure agenda. he told me about the biggest factor the administration considers when making its policy, and it's not what you're thinking. velshi starts now. good morning. it is saturday, july the 17th. i'm ali velshi. we begin this morning with the fight to fix the nation's infrastructure. democrats on capitol hill are pushing to finalize two massive bills. one that has republican support, another that does not. and the deadlines are fast

approaching. senate majority leader chuck schumer announced that this upcoming wednesday, the chamber is going to hold its first big vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill that's being negotiated by a group of moderate democrats and centrist republicans. that bill, as we've reported, is to fund physical infrastructure, like highways, bridges, airports, rail roads, transportations. wednesday is schumer's deadline for senate democrats to finalize their larger, $3.5 trillion bill that would focus on so-called human infrastructure. they plan to use the budget reconciliation process to pass it. that means they can do so without any republican votes. that bill is expected to include a wide range of party priorities from immigration reform to climate change to legislation to expanded protections for unions, just to name a few things in that massive bill. however, there is growing concern that as democrats try to pass the reconciliation bill

unilaterally, it might tank the prospects of passing the bipartisan counterpart, the infrastructure bill. now, the guy who's going to be in charge of much of the physical infrastructure part of it is transportation secretary pete buttigieg. i sat down with him this week in eugene, oregon. we discussed the senate's two-track approach to the legislation. >> now, early on in this debate, if you remember a few months ago, when we were talking about human infrastructure, i heard a lot of republicans saying, oh, you know, child care is great. building veterans' hospitals is great. we just don't think it's infrastructure, so you should put it in different package. fine, now it's in a different package. let's see if they'll vote for it now. >> stick around. we'll air part one of my interview with secretary buttigieg. in the meantime, the ex-president has been out of office for 178 days, and we are still learning more about his final days in power. the upcoming book, "i alone can fix it," by "washington post"

journalist carol leonnig and philip rucker exposes huge rifts in the trump administration including exclusive excerpts obtained by nbc news reads in part, while barr was debating what to do about the president, trump was rather rapidly souring on him for failing to reveal massive fraud in several states where the president's allies claimed this had been malfeasance. everything trump raised fell flat with barr. the book goes on, although these and other anecdotes of alleged voter fraud were debunked, trump complained to aides that barr had gone soft. to barr's mind, the president had fallen prey to lightweight acolytes who wanted to prove their loyalty and build their own importance by feeding him fraud allegations. these allegations circled

online, but with a fall calls, prosecutors found out they were easily proven false or impossible, end quote. what seemed like idiotic lies at the time have since exploded into a signature movement for the republican party. republican-led states are using those lies to push a seemingly anti-democratic agenda of adding election restrictions in hopes of reclaiming washington. efforts to disenfranchise voters is exactly what the late congressman john lewis spent his entire career fighting. most of his life, actually. today marks the one-year anniversary of his death. candlelight vigils are set to take place all over the country today in celebration of his legacy. another way of honoring his legacy is by standing up in the name of protecting voter access, and that's exactly what we saw take place on capitol hill on thursday. the chairwoman of the congressional black caucus, this

woman on the right, joyce beatty, was arrested along with several other activists while protesting in a senate office in favor of federal voting rights legislation. they urged the senate to pass the for the people act and the john lewis voting rights act. both of which have languished in the senate after passing in the house. those bills would provide minimum standards for early voting, vote by mail, and automatic voter registration, all no-brainers in a democracy. overriding many of the newly passed restrictive laws in red states. those voting rights advocates received praise from vice president kamala harris during a discussion. >> i look at the leaders who are at this table who are also women and also black women, and i see sojourner truth. when i look at the women at this table, i see ida b. welles,

amelia boynton. i see fanny lou heymer. i see constance baker motley. and these are the modern versions of those great women. >> she's invoking the names of people who engaged in civil disobedience to change unjust laws. a federal voting rights bill needs to pass, but senate democrats do not have the numbers to get that done the way things stand now. how can they when one of the party's chief holdouts, the democratic senator joe manchin of west virginia is hobnobbing with the very people trying to deny voters' rights. i'm not making this up. one day after manchin met with texas house democrats who went to d.c. to prevent the passage of a restrictive voting law in their state, manchin, this man, reportedly flew to texas for a

fund-raiser, not just any fund-raiser, a fund-raiser hosted by gop donors. that one is a head scratcher. not only is manchin a holdout on a federal voting rights bill, but he's also one of the main democratic supporters of keeping the filibuster in place, keeping that thing in place that means you need ten republicans in order to pass meaningful legislation. which is fine in some instances, it is not fine when there's an attack on voters' rights across this country. with me now, eugene scott. he's a "washington post" reporter for "the fix," and host of "the next four years" podcast on amazon. eugene, good morning to you. i don't know how good a morning it is. a year ago we were marking the death of john lewis and celebrating all the work that man did, including taking a baton to the head, which cracked his skull, to support voting rights and now in 2021, we are seeing the reversal of those voting rights in state after

state after state. >> it's just a reminder that this fight that we currently are involved in, it's not new. it's been decades long, centuries long. and that is not what you would expect of a democracy that considers itself a place where people regardless of their orientation, their ethnicity, their race, their faith all have equal rights to citizenship. and so what you're seeing democratic lawmakers and activists argue is that if this legislation at the federal level does not move forward, this is a fight that could continue for decades more. and hopefully not centuries, but it definitely seems that there's a party that is less interested in making voting easy and accessible for millions of people. and with that type of war and conflict and disagreement currently happening, it seems as if that will have to be something that they try their best to find some type of common

ground on immediately, if they want to stop to fight and right now. >> the one piece of inspiration that he brings to this whole thing is that john lewis himself, from his youth, was prepared to put himself in between these unjust laws and everything else. and that involved civil disobode disobedience. that involved countless arrests and nights in jail. we are seeing versions of that with the arrest of joyce beatty and the fact that texas lawmakers have left their state to avoid being arrested my the sergeant of arms -- these are not criminal acts -- but avoiding being arrested by the sergeant of arms and being forced to create a quorum. something is happening here. my question, eugene, you study

it closely, is where will it lead. what will it force federal legislators to do to support these state legislators and members of congress who are trying to fight unjust voting laws? >> it's going to be difficult, as you noted earlier. the democrats who are not supporting federal legislation, have not been for quite some time and have been very vocal about their lack of support for it, joe manchin primarily being the maim that gets the most attention. and despite manchin being a democrat, he was elected -- her barely won his last race in a very conservative state and he has the support that he currently has in part because of conservative voter in the state. and as you also noted, conservative dollars. that is going to shape how he engages with policy. so the fact that he is not listening that closely to other democrats even in west virginia should lead you to know that he's probably not going to change his mind based on what democrats in texas say he should do. ultimately, he's going to listen

to the people who sent him to washington, and many of those people are conservatives. >> we're 178 days away from the inauguration. we're many, many more days away from the election. and yet in maricopa county, arizona, they continue to count votes. this cyber ninja operation continues to count votes. i think they're going to count votes until the votes disappear or the number of votes they get are found. the fact of the matter is, so far in that audit, nothing of value has been found. there have been under a couple hundred of votes that are questionable, that are worthy, perhaps, according to the cyber ninjas of further investigation. nowhere near the number of votes that donald trump would need to counter his defeat in that

county, let alone in that state. we now have a house panel. the house oversight and reform committee that is looking into the cyber ninjas and trying to get them to provide information. >> and to provide context. not just a couple hundred of votes, but a couple hundred votes out of 3 million. when you put it in perspective and context, you see how insignificants is. one of the reasons the house committee is investigating this process, because it appears to be very sketchy, happening out on a former basketball court floor, being livestreamed by this pro-trump, one american news network, that is deeply invested in this narrative, that it's not supported by facts. and it's just a reminder of just how partisan this has become, opposed to something in an election, which is aimed and designed to bring people from both sides of the aisle together to celebrate democracy.

and this is of great concern. if something like this is allowed to move forwarding with this process, then we will find ourselves having real questions about the integrity of our election and they will be based on facts, what we have seen, and reasons and concerns that are worth paying attention to. >> eugene, good to see you, as always. eugene scott is "washington post" reporter, the host of "the next four years" podcast available on amazon. texas democrats are also honoring john lewis as they boldly advocate for voting rights. it's day five of the democrats' act of civil disobedience. 51 state representatives are camping out in washington, d.c. in an attempt top prevent republicans from passing new election restrictions in their state. the republican's house speaker is chattering a private -- i want to say this again. the republican house speaker is chattering a private plane to

washington to try to coax the democrats to come back to texas. he said in a statement, quote, i am demanding all of our colleagues in d.c. to contact my staff immediately in order to secure their plane -- their seat on the plane. the plane that he chartered to bring them back. i'm not sure how that's going to work. joining me now is one of those state lawmakers who left in protest. state representative raphael anchia. i assume you're not clamoring to claim your seat on the plane he's chartered to get back to texas. >> i flew here commercial, ali, and i did so in the spirit of john lewis to try to protect the freedom to vote for millions of texans. we were literally forced to flee the state in order to stop a bill that was going to restrict our freedom to vote and it was something we tried to avoid. this is not a time we're spiking

the ball or jumping for joy. this is a solemn moment in our country's street, where as we're remembering john lewis, we're also fighting for voting rights. and the reality is, we would have loved to say in the great state of texas that we love so much with our families in order to fight for things like fixing our electric grid that greg abbott has allowed to decay and fail our state, so much so that during the winter storm, 700 texans died. and we can't have that again. we're the ninth largest economy in the world. we're a great state. we need to have a first-world grid. yet greg abbott didn't put that on the call of issues. instead, he loaded it up with red meat that's not going to help the everyday texan, and it's only helping his presidential ambition. >> that you don't need! you need a strong grid! you don't actually have any problems with drive-through voting. you don't actually have any problems with overnight voting. you don't actually have any

problems with mail-in votings. you actually have a problem with your electrical grid in texas. >> the secretary of state said our election was safe, smooth, and secure. 60% of the people who used drive-through voting were women. many of whom had kids in their safety seats in the back of the car, and it actually worked for people. the big problem for republicans is that more people voted, republicans, democrats, and independents. and for some reason, they don't like that. somehow they think we need to restrict the right to vote. we should restrict voting options. voting should be accessible for all texans and we need to make sure it's safe for all texans and that's why we were forced to flee the state. >> you are an american, but you are a child of people who have experienced other regimes. you take this democracy thing very seriously. and it is entirely likely, representative anchia that you will be arrested upon your return home. >> well, as you pointed out earlier, if we're arrested, it's

the kind of arrest that john lewis faced and it's something while not equating my acts with my heroism, it's something we're all prepared to do. we don't take this lightly. but what we do take seriously the state of the american democracy. my mom is from mexico, one-party rule for 70 years. my dad lived under absolute dictatorship in spain after the spanish civil war. we take this very seriously. they came to this country for america's highest ideals, for its beacon of hope, for its example of democracy throughout the world. if we let democracy fail here, if we allow it to be eroded, that's a terrible symbol for the rest of the world where democracy is under threat. >> y'all could have flown somewhere. you went to washington, because i think you and i have talked about this many times, we have all discussed that you need washington to understand that you in texas will do what you

need to do. you will engage in civil disobedience to stop oppressive laws from going through. but there's one person you do need who happens to be in your state right now, having attended a gop-supported fund-raiser. joe manchin. have you had a conversation with joe manchin? has your group talked to joe manchin, and do you think he understands how serious this matter is and what role he can play in fixing this? >> well, i'm not troubled by u.s. senators coming to the state of texas to raise money. it happens virtually every week. we had a very productive meeting with joe manchin. i wasn't there, but we dispatched a delegation of our members. joe manchin is a former secretary of state and values voting rights. that was the big takeaway from this meeting. and we're going to continue discussions -- pardon me -- on the hill with senators and representatives to make sure we get meaningful legislation that protects the freedom to vote for millions of texans. >> representative anchia, it's

good talking to you again. i never thought we would be talking as regularly as we are, but this is a going and we are appreciate the efforts you are taking in order to take our democratic voting rights. raphael anchia of texas. john capeheart will host a town hall to push back on the denial of voting rights in texas. watch "battleground democracy: the texas democrats" monday at 10:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. still to come, more from my conversation with secretary treasury pete buttigieg with the senate set to take up the bipartisan bill this week, secretary buttigieg details how climate and equity play major parts in their plans. meanwhile, one of biden's plans is helping desperate american families right now. i'll talk about it, next. , next . try boost glucose control. it's clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels

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nearly 11 million children live in poverty in the united states. that's one in every seven kids. to help alleviate that struggle, this week the irs sent out its very first batch of checks to families as part of the expanded child tax credit. more than 35 million families will receive the first of six advanced child tax payments. in total, about $15 billion has been allotted for this program. the white house estimates a near 50% reduction in child poverty because of these payments. here's the breakdown of who gets one. the government is sending $300 per child for children under the age of 6 and $250 per month for kids up to 17. it's only for families making up to $150,000 annually.

they can see if they're eligible through the child tax portal. these are set to be dispersed monthly over the course of the next six months, but there are already calls to extend the program. treasury secretary janet yellen supports that idea, saying it will do a huge amount to reduce child poverty, which has been an tremendously important problem in the united states, end quote. but not one republican in congress voted in favor of a child tax credit. child tax credit. florida senator marco rubio even released a statement saying, quote, the biden child allowance is anti-work, and it certainly isn't pro-family. no one should be fooled. anti-work. because the kids should be working, i suppose. stick around. we'll have more on this topic later in the show. i'll discuss the child tax

credit with democratic congresswoman judy chu in our next hour. all right, need more proof that the ridiculous partisan sham cyber ninja audit in arizona is just that? a new associated press investigation shows that out of 3 million ballots cast in last year's election in arizona, officials have identified fewer than 200 cases of potential voter fraud. 200 out of 3 million. four cases leading to charges. no convictions. coming up next, the one thing standing in the way of national voting rights legislation. standing in the way of national voting rights legislation. ever notice how stiff clothes can feel rough on your skin? for softer clothes that are gentle on your skin, try downy free & gentle downy will soften your clothes without dyes or perfumes. the towel washed with downy is softer, and gentler on your skin. try downy free & gentle.

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legislation at the federal level. right now, the for the people act and the john lewis voting rights act have passed in the house, but they remain stuck in the senate. the right to vote, which john lewis spent his life protecting and fighting for, being jailed for, being beaten for, is under attack. states like texas and georgia are working to suppress the vote. arizona and pennsylvania are simultaneously trying to invalidate election results that have long been certified. in a speech this week, president biden came out strong against the attack on voting. he called out republicans for having no shame and implored them, to, quote, stand up, for god's sake. but biden neglected to mention one very important detail. one very important way of getting there. reforming the filibuster. the democrats could get rid of the filibuster if it weren't for two senators holding out. at our friend and msnbc contributor, joyce vance, puts

it, the filibuster is the gorilla in the room. joyce vance joins me now. she's a contributor and also a former u.s. attorney. joyce, thank you for being with us. when i read your column, i was thinking to myself, the nation, many people in the nation, were celebrating the strength with which joe biden came out and shamed republicans for doing what they are trying to do and made it clear that this is anti-democratic and it is not in the interests of our history or our country to be doing what they are doing in statehouses across the country. but you pointed out that there was something that democrats can do now to fix this. representative clyburn has suggested it and that is carve out matters to do with voting rights from the filibuster. make them not subject to the filibuster, where you have to get ten extra votes in order to pass something. >> that really looks like the increasing option here. biden's speech was strong and

forceful, and he's such a superlative statesman. he knows the senate so well, that i think he was very intentional when he chose his words. at one point, he said, we have the tools that we immediate to get this done, to pass the voting rights laws. the question is, do we have the will? i suspect everyone in the senate and particularly these moderate democrats heard that as a challenge to create this carveout, so that they would be able to bypass the filibuster and get these laws passed. >> you where something in your column that resonated so strongly with me. and that is that in the effort to win, to defeat the other side, we are missing possibly the fundamental ray raison debtra. you say, the right to vote is essential to what makes us

american. the only option we have is to fight the preserve it. not to make sure that the candidate we wants wins, but to make sure we have options. the right to vote is bigger than where weather democrats defeat republicans. >> you know, this has never been a partisan fight and that's what frightens me so much about the moment that we're living in. some factions of the republican party have recast this purely as a political sort of an issue. but your exercise of the right to vote is the most fundamentally american thing we have to hold on to. vice president harris said it so well this week. she said, the right to vote is what unlocks all of the other rights. when we're thinking about voting, that's not a partisan act. we want to make sure that everyone can vote. as you're saying, today it may be an issue of whether black democrats in georgia are able to exercise the franchise. in the future, though, as the country increasingly shifts

demographically, perhaps there's the possibility that republicans can find themselves shut out of the process. and they would surely want to have laws in place that would guarantee their rights, just like everyone wants to be able to vote in this country. >> john lewis got arrested many times. the reverend barber got arrested a few weeks ago, knowing that he would get arrested for his protest. joyce beatty and others, a member of congress got arrested this week, knowing that they got arrested. that is part of the deal with civil disobedience. these texas democrats might be arrested when they return to texas. there is an irony, though, that you tweeted, trying to figure out how black people singing to protest the senate's failure to pass voting rights laws got arrested yesterday, while january 6th insurrectionists walked freely out of the building after they violently overran it. there is some poignancy to this. >> it is such a stark contrast in how we've treated different

groups of people in this country over time. and i'm sure that there are reasons that go beyond the obvious racial breakdown in this issue. no one's debating that the capitol police were seriously outmanned on january 6th, but that fact itself goes to the underlying issue here of who in america have their rights guaranteed. if we don't all have the right to vote and can't exercise it, then we can't address these problems. >> i encourage everyone to read your column on msnbc daily about this. it points out some fundamental issues that we need to be thinking about. joyce vance, good to see you this morning, my friend. thank you. the senate is set to take up president biden's bipartisan infrastructure bill this weekend. in addition to my conversation with transportation secretary pete buttigieg coming up in the next hour, i also spoke with a group of local oregonians to get the human side of what failing

infrastructure really looks like. that's next on "velshi." >> let's talk about the fact that we haven't invested in our infrastructure for decades in a meaningful way. and hays threatening american competitiveness. >> it's about heartening built infrastructure but also protecting the soft infrastructure that provides a lots ofs services to us. lots ofs services to us. you now hold in your hands? yeah (laugh) keep your downstairs dry with gold bond body powder.

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infrastructure are important and vital to americans' everyday lives, including here in porlt, oregon. while i was here, i sat down with a group of five locals to discuss how infrastructure has an impact on them, their city, and how it needs to change for the better. >> what, amber, does infrastructure mean to you? >> i mean, you know, infrastructure, there's the traditional sense of the bridges, internet, the roads that we use. i'm in the non-profit world, i'm in direct service working with elders. so infrastructure has always been tied to the human aspect, as well. so for me, i think of it as the foundation and they're so interconnected. roads. you need healthy, thriving people to use those roads. it's all-encompassing and

asbestos making people's lives better. >> i think it's about keeping people connected. whether that was through power at one point or the telephone or roads and now we're talking about internet and broadband. and i think that's probably the latest piece, as we continue to adapt the term to whatever the technology is that connects us. and i think it's really easy to overlook that one or it was easy. and i think the pandemic has shown that you can't overlook it. it's part of the glue that holds us all together. >> i work in transportation, and our industry is traditionally about roads and bridges and highways. but really, it's about more than that. we have not invested in that infrastructure to actually maintain it at the right level and here in oregon, we are sitting on a cascading subduction zone, so the moment that disaster occurs, we are at

risk of losing many of our bridges and that would disconnect people from routes to safety. but also, i would just note that transportation is so much more than that. we actually need to be investing also -- we are already investing, but we need to increase our investment because of the future in climate crisis and because of equity considerations that have not been thought of in the past. >> i work in energy, climate, and environmental justice. and much of the capital stock in the united states was built on the basis of withstanding weather from the 1960s, the 1970s. these historical records don't apply anymore. we are in extreme events and the infrastructure is not built to withstand that. for me it, really means, sort of upgrading and making climate resilient, the infrastructure that we have. and it's also soft infrastructure, as well. it's not just the hard infrastructure. it's ecosystem like forests and mangroves and coral reefs that can help sturges and protect

communities. >> so infrastructure to me, i really think about the inset of america and how so-called blacks or african-americans have built the actual infrastructure here for the whole country, but has not been able to participate or gain any wealth from that. it's specifically, like here in portland, within the alibina community, with roads and highways going through, creating a gash within the community, a trench, you know. so infrastructure to me is -- although it is the very basis of what makes a first world country operate, it's also an instrument that is used within the built

environment to exploit and oppress. >> this is very much an equity issue. dots, the dot i work for, we have done irreparable harm that has destroyed black and brown and low-income communities across the country. recently when our department was part of a discussion, a web-based discussion with the secretary, this -- they were talking about their infrastructure plan. one of the questions we were able to ask was, you know, you've talked about some of the harm, you've mentioned it, but what are we going to do about it? his answer really stuck with me, which is if federal dollars did the harm, federal dollars need to do the healing. >> these are generation until harms that have happened over a long period of time and generational wealth has been lost, and it's been sort of a cultural loss within communities, as well. so recognizing that harm and moving forward with that equity

lens to deal with these issues is really important. and i think community voices have to be heard first. but there's some sort of basic infrastructural things that can actually be carried out. so electrification of rural communities. navajo nation is where a lot of fossil fuels has been mined and removed from, but is barely electrified itself as a community. lack of water resources in low-income communities and communities of color. so sort of basic health issues are really important to take into account. for so long, the human infrastructure piece has been left out of the conversation. and so now that we're looking at it as one big piece, it's -- it's progress. and it really does scary me when we've -- there's discussion about separating it. because that funding and that conversation, you know, there's potential that we lose that. and we haven't invested in our infrastructure, we haven't

invested in our people. >> let's talk about the fact that we haven't invested in our infrastructure for decades, in a meaningful way, and that is threatening american competitiveness. because infrastructure supports jobs, research, education, supports so many things. if we don't invest, we'll continue to be less competitive. this is not a package about just investing infrastructure. this is a package about recovery. >> the hard part is the politics, really. that's the part that seems to get in the way. it's not that people don't want these changes. it's that people disagree on which changes should come first or the scope of the changes, but i think that's the real key for us, especially in education, where we've seen the funding come and go, especially here in oregon. you can't make progress and you cannot make reasonable improvements for people, in my world, kids, when the funding is not there to back it in sustainable way that you can plan for. >> i want to thank those five

portlanders for coming out to talk to me, but join us tomorrow morning for part ii of that conversation where we discuss how badly this city needs infrastructure changes because of the ongoing climate changes. this is a place where temperatures were in triple digits several weeks ago. coming up, with covid cases on the rise once again, one prominent county in california is bringing back mask mandates, and it doesn't matter whether you're vaccinated or not. more velshi in a s.e.c. a s.e.c what can i du with less asthma? with dupixent, i can du more....beginners' yoga. namaste... ...surprise parties. aww, you guys. dupixent helps prevent asthma attacks... ...for 3!... ...so i can du more of the things i love. dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems. it's an add-on-treatment for specific types of moderate-to-severe asthma that can improve lung function

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president are calling the violence a deliberate, coordinated attack. it comes just days after the arrest of the former president, jacob zuma. nbc's kelly cobiella has more. >> thousands of soldiers out on the streets in response to these stunning images that have shocked south africans. looting on a massive scale. windows smashed. hundreds of stores set on fire. police often outnumbered and overwhelmed. a desperate scene at this building torched by rioters. a mother threw her toddler into the safe arms of a crowd below. more than 200 have died. ten killed in a stampede during looting at this supermarket. everything in here that be destroyed. there is nothing left to salvage, except for a few shelves. but no goods. the violence was sparked by the arrest of former president jacob zuma, under investigation for corruption and fraud, but still

popular among many poor south africans. the instigators want to spread instability in the country. half of south africans live below the poverty line. today, they're left with even less, waiting hours in line for food, fuel, and medicine. this pharmacist's business was looted. he told me he lost everything and is not sure how he'll feed his family. what's left? >> nothing. nothing. all the stuff, computers, gone. >> that's kelly cobiella reporting. the president has said, quote, we will not allow anarchy and mayhem to unfold in our country. he's vowed to bring those responsible to justice. well, even as this country continues to open up, the rise of the extremely dangerous delta covid-19 variant is sparking new concerns of outbreak among the unvaccinated and the vaccinated. i'll explain next on "velshi" i'll explain next on "velshi

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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ an uptick this week in coronavirus cases nationwide, the concerning trend now evident in all 50 states. fueled by the spread of the delta variant, dr. france he is collinss the director of the national institute of health says we are losing time in the battle to stop the spread by getting folks vaccinated. the head of the cdc issuing this wang on friday. >> this is becoming a pandemic

of the unvaccinated. we are seeing outbreaks of cases in parts of the country that have low vaccination coverage because unvaccinated people are at risk. and communities that are fully vaccinated are generally faring well. >> and in los angeles county it's a case of back to the future or deja vu as health officials rpts indoor mask mandates this weekend saying we are not where we need to be for the millions at risk of infection here. the rise in covid-19 cases comes a month after the most pop owls county in the nation reopened the economy. though rare it's not just the unvaccinated at risk to the pandemic. in massachusetts alone, 79 fully vaccinated residents have died, according to state officials, while 303 have been hospitalized with covid breakthrough cases. joining us now is a doctor in that state.

dr. bedealia an infectious disease physician and founder for the benefits center for emerging infectious decease. and msnbc contributor. thank you for joining us this morning. that number seems very high. i thought the instance and likelihood of a vaccinated person getting covid to the degree they would hospitalized or die is very, very low. >> yeah, ali, it is low. and i think you have to look at the denominator of the number of people vaccinated. and you have to look at the detail of what's going on. here's what's happening around the country. massachusetts is an example of it. as there is more virus and as delta and more transmissible variant increases, the likelihood increases that burden the majority is carried by people unvaccinated. you talked about l.a. county, majority of the people hospitalized in l.a. county are

partially vaccinated or unvaccinated. but because there is virus in the community and no vaccine is 100%, 90% effective in the real world data against delta there might be a portion of people vaccinated who also come across the infection for whom they may end up getting infection. and particularly if they have medical conditions making them high risk they may be at risk for hospitalizations why i think vaccines are an individual choice to keep yourself chase but the more vaccinated it's also a communal action to keep us all safe. >> look, some of this is based on nonsense and conspiracy theories. but some real. some are vaccine hesitant. i spoke to a fantastic woman in the mississippi delta going to conferences speaking to people one-on-one but meeting with success in convincing people to get vaccinated.

my friend dr. ala stanford in philadelphia is saying the same thing. you can have all the public service campaigns you want. but if people are hesitant or resistant, they are not coming to your clinic. how do we get to the greatest number of people unvaccinated who can actually be convinced? >> so, the numbers show that there are about -- of the people unvaccinated i think 29% are saying they're likely not to get vaccinated. and another 20% said they absolutely will not be vaccinated. i think one of the ways to get to it is to reach out and try to address the misinformation that's out there. ali, i was blown away by a survey from keyes are this week showing 54% of americans either believe in or don't know if a covid-19 vaccine myth is correct. and those who believe it are much, much less likely to get the vaccine. so it is the individual -- it is the individual interactions for people like me in clinics and

pharmacies and others. but i think it's also what each of us do, individuals do, reaching out to those in our family, those we trust, who trust us to share our own vaccine journeys and the benefits of it. because i think it's that individual interface one of the ways we innoculate against the infection. >> can you have a discussion with somebody like that, na the ed because i have difficulty doing so. >> it's heart breaking. my patients i care about, most of whom have been misled by disinformation and misinformation. in some cases is makes a difference. in some cases it makes a difference after multiple people talking to that person. but you're right, it is frustrating because covid is a vaccine preventible disease now. you know, the majority of the people that are dying are still the unvaccinated. and we have abundance of vaccine. so i think that it's still worth the struggle, because all of our

united destinies is related to us being fully vaccinated and getting on the other side of that pandemic. >> a couple months ago when boston and new york opened pup gyms opened, things happened more freely, you did say to me you naught some of it felt a little premature. you'd rather it be based on metrics and statistics than dates. now we have l.a. county deciding it's going back to a mask mandate, vaccinated or not. talk to me about process here, about how we should be thinking about this so we don't have bounds forward and then setbacks. >> i still stand by that. i think that we have to base is on the metrics related not to increase in cases but also looking at hospitalizations and deaths in a highly vaccinated -- let me talk about the unvaccinated states, the states that have low rates of vaccination. they're already seeing surges. and in those areas i think that they need to consider adding layers of mitigation like masks,

until they get their vaccination rates up. in high-vaccinated states, the problem is there are pockets of people who are unvaccinated in the same community. so you see that vulnerability increase. in those areas i think if you start seeing hospitalizations go up, we should reconsider until we can get -- it's such a local reality, right. it's still hard to say no for everybody or yes for everybody. it's much easier to base it on what the realities are of the health care system and the increase in cases, in those highly vaccinated states you want to look at new surges. i just want to end with one thing, ali, with my experience with outbreaks, i have discovered that recovery is not linear. it's not like you just go out to -- on the other side. it's going to be this kind of process where we have to reassess and take the steps that are needed to end the pandemic. >> good to talk to you again as always, dr. bedealia the founding director of boston

university center for emerging infectious diseases policy and research. she is an msnbc contribute are. don't go anywhere. "velshi" just getting started. to come my interview with pete beautyth whose job as transportation secretary. talking climate change and america's withdrawal from afghanistan. another hour of "velshi" begins right now. good morning it's saturday, july 17th. i'm aljudge velshi. democrats on capitol hill trying to finalized infrastructure bills with and without republican support. a group of lawmakers work through the weekend on the $579 billion plan funding infrastructure like the nations crumbling bridges and roads and electrical buses. the goal is to produce the legislative text for the bill by the time the senate returns on monday. but negotiations