doctors in the world. it's one of the reasons president biden is lashing out at facebook. we'll get to his cutting criticism of the tech giant amid this unrelenting pandemic and the variants that are spreading through the country. in fact, for some communities in america this year will actually be worse than 2020. is that possible? we'll explain that and how the deadly delta variant is driving a wedge through parts of the country. coronavirus isn't the only big issue being fueled by conspiracy theories. there's also the attempt by some republicans to whitewash the january 6th insurrection. but that's not what they were saying in real time. as rioters attacked the capitol. we have the tale of the tape straight ahead. good morning and welcome to "morning joe," it is monday july 19th, joe and willie are off this morning. with us we have white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lemire, up way

too early for us. and former aid to the george w. bush white house, elise jordan and also katty kay on the way this morning. in the united states covid cases are on the rise again driven up in increases in places with low vaccination rates. and now the former surgeon general is suggesting the cdc should once again ask everyone to mask up indoors. nbc news correspondent kathy park explains. >> reporter: no signs of covid backing down. in los angeles county a 700% increase in positive cases in just the last month as masks go back on while indoors. >> i think better safe than sorry for sure. >> reporter: former surgeon general on mask weighing, the premature guidance was wrong. the cdc should be advising to

vax it and mask it. the current surgeon general defended the cdc's decision on masks for the fully vaccinated. >> they gave communities and individuals a flexibility to make decisions about what to do with masks. >> reporter: across america, cases rising in all 50 states some hit harder than others. health care workers in florida's seminal county point to a trend. >> the death rate is extremely high, 99.2% for individuals who aren't vaccinated. >> reporter: in arkansas hospitals are full and they are running out of care givers. and more worries around the world. prime minister boris johnson is in quarantine after a covid exposure. >> i've been pinged. i have been asked to self-isolate by the test, trace and isolate system after i've been in contact with somebody who has covid. >> reporter: this comes hours

before the uk was set to lift their limits. new polling shows the groups most vulnerable to the delta variant are also the groups least concerned about it. in a new cbs yougov poll, 48% of not vaccinated and not fully vaccinated said they're not concerned about the variant, about coronavirus. which is 24 points fewer than the percentage of fully vaccinated americans who say they have concerns. i'm concerned. i'm vaccinated. and this is why the unvaccinated should be concerned. here's former fda commissioner dr. scott gottlieb on the risk of the delta variant to unvaccinated americans. >> this virus is so contagious, this variant is so contagious it's going to infect the majority.

most people will be vaccinated or previously had the infection, or get the delta variant. and it's going to be the worst they'll get in their lifetime and put them in the hospital. >> dr. gottlieb is our guest the next hour. while infections rose in half the counties last week, those with low vaccination rates were far more likely to see bigger jumps amid the 25 counties with the sharpest increase in cases, all but one had vaccinated under 40% of residents. and 16 had vaccinated under 30%. arkansas is one state with one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country. and where the delta variant is poised to do significant damage. "the new york times" reports from the baxter regional medical center, the largest hospital in

north central arkansas, where fewer than one third of residents are vaccinated and fewer people are protected in surrounding counties that the hospital serves it found, quote, in the first half of june, the hospital averaged only one or two covid-19 patients a day. on thursday, 22 of the unit's 32 beds were filled with coronavirus patients. five more were in intensive care. in a single week, the number of covid patients had jumped by one third. hospitalizations have quadrupled since mid may. more than a third of patients are in intensive care. the retired national guard colonel who runs the states vaccination effort said, quote, we tried just about everything we can think of for about one in three residents, he said, i don't think there's a thing in the world we could do to get

them vaccinated. he added that door knocking would probably do more harm than good giving residents' suspicions of federal intentions. over to missouri. missouri has now seen more than 1,000 new cases in a day for the sixth straight day. joining us now staff writer at the atlantic, ed young, who recently won a pulitzer prize for his reporting on covid-19. his newest piece, quote, many experts have argued even with delta, the united states is unlikely to revisit the horrors of last winter. even now the country's hospitalizations are one-seventh as high as they were in mid january but national optimism glosses over local reality. for many communities this year will be worst than last. springfield health care workers

and public health specialists are experiencing the same ordeals they thought they had left behind but it feels worse this time because we've seen it before. a nurse at cox health told me walking back into the covid icu was demoralizing. i can't even imagine, ed, for these front line workers who put their lives on the lines, and many died, but those who made it through this, to be going back to this because people are refusing to get vaccinated, what did you find about missouri? >> it's really crushing their morale. these health care workers who i had spoken to had just about got past the winter surge, they had seen the horrors of covid and thought they left those horrors behind them and spent the spring while the rest of us had an easier time of it doing catch up work and still working incredibly hard. and now they're getting pummelled by this surge that has

taken them by surprise. they're exhausted again, overwhelmed again, but overwhelmed in a situation when extraordinarily effective vaccines, plural, are available to people and at a time when so much of the country has seemed to leave the pandemic behind it's crushing morale and making it much harder to do the daily life saving work that we all depend on them to do. >> what are they hearing? what is your reporting bearing out in terms of why these people are not getting vaccinated? >> there's a lot of distrust, obviously the issue has become so heavily politicized that a lot of people have completely made up their minds about the pandemic, about the vaccines. issues range all across the board. people think that -- some people think that the pandemic isn't really a problem at all, that

covid is not a problem, that it only affects younger people and sadly, a lot of the icus in the hospitals where i've spoken to staff are filling with much younger people, people in their 30s and 40s, and those people are much sicker than they were this time last year. >> so i'm hearing, that's -- the reporting is reflecting what i've been reading across the country, when there is a rise in covid patients in hospitals, they are younger and they are much sicker. but ed, you talked about this being so politicized and that's leading some to not get the vaccine. what's politicized about science? i mean, science is facts. this vaccine has been around now for more than a year. people have seen the death toll, it is massive and science is proving, by actual like results being seen across america, that the vaccine works.

i don't understand, what do you mean by politicized? what is happening in the minds of the unvaccinated that the concept of science is politicized in their minds? >> yeah. so i agree with you that the vaccines have proven their effectiveness not only in the initial clinical trials but also in practice. they work incredibly well, not only against the original virus but against the delta variant as well. i do think that people make decisions not only based on the evidence around them, but also on what they're hearing from their own communities and the people around them. and sadly, i think that issues about the vaccines and the pandemic have been completely embroiled in these political identities. that, you know, people are looking around their communities and how they're making decisions and that's weighing what they're doing in response to the vaccines. and, you know, unless we can sort of break through that,

unless we can establish greater trust with people who are distrusting, the government, the medical system, science as a whole, we are going to not make progress. i think people who i spoke to in southwest missouri and the public health departments, they're trying very hard. they're making slow progress in establishing that trust with resistant communities, but trust is slow to build and the delta variant moves very quickly. >> you have done a great public tribute with all of your fantastic reporting over the past year and have really just drove into this at such a granular level. if you had a recommendation to policy makers what could the government and government officials be better doing so communicate and what could the general public, i guess the media at large, be doing to actually have an impact in this

war of ideas when it comes to convincing unvaccinated people to go and get jabbed? >> so what i've tried to do is reflect the stories of the people on the ground who are trying to deal with the current surge to show people what it's actually like to be a health care worker right now. i feel like the personal experience are going to be more impactful than showing stats of how quickly the delta variant is rising. i've had emails from readers who used those pieces to talk to relatives who had no idea how bad things were in hospitals. for most of us going out right now, birds are chirping in the streets, fun in the summer, you won't have an idea of what's going on in the emergency rooms in these areas that are heavily unvaccinated. i spoke about trust, how the health departments in southwest missouri are trying hard to get

trusted voices to talk to their neighbors, whether it's firefighters or pastors, or neighbors going around talking to folks about the vaccine, members of their own community or terms, i think that approach of doing community outreach on a very, very personal basis is going to be more effective than getting to people at like a national platform. >> ed, my question to you is the unvaccinated suffering from covid are also obviously getting a lot of disinformation, relying on some sort of disinformation, so who, or where are they getting this information that they're so vehemently sticking to?

>> unfortunately many sources. news, social media, we look at what our friends and family are doing. we have a large number of systems that allow the information to spread easily across these networks. and this problem, i think, has become worse over the last year and a half. a lot of people who are trying to get vaccinate rates up say that people's beliefs are more entrenched than a year and a half ago and it takes experience with the virus in your own local community, it takes seeing your loved ones dying around you to change people's minds and often that's too late. >> thank you so much. we'll be reading your new reporting for the atlantic. thank you for coming on the show this morning. five texas democrats have now tested positive for covid since coming to washington last week. all are members of the state house delegation that fled to

d.c. in an attempt to block texas republicans from passing restrictive voting laws. all five are said to have been fully vaccinated. the texas house democratic caucus said the five are feeling good with only mild or no symptoms. and jonathan lemire, this is my next point. obviously we're going to be talking to experts throughout the week about this. but the delta variant and the vaccinated are being impacted and those who are unvaccinated who are allowing this virus to fester through the country. people who have been responsible and gotten their vaccines are now being stricken. >> that's right. what we see in this texas case, we have seen a number of republicans seizing on this and suggesting -- blaming them. there's a picture that went around last week when they arrived from washington, they

were on a flight and weren't wearing their masks. this may hinder their ability to have meetings while in d.c. we know they met with vice president harris at the end of last week. her office said she is fine. she did not reach the threshold where she has to quarantine. and there had been talk of meeting with president biden this week. but that may get more complicated considering the positive cases. but there's no question what we're seeing with the delta variant is scary stuff and public health officials are mindful of it. that's why there's such urgency to try to get those who refuse to get the vaccine jabbed, it's about you, the country, the fact we're seeing mask mandates reinstated in places like los angeles, fear that could grow to places elsewhere across the country, places that might now have higher rates of vaccination. but that could be done here

still. and yes, they seem to be mild cases but they would have some ability to spread the virus which just perpetuates this, and the greatest warning, greatest fear is not what the variant could do right now but the longer the virus is allowed to stay out there, more variants could emerge that could be more dangerous and get around the defenses offered by the vaccine. >> what's frustrating here is that -- i'll just say it, we're going to end up going back to masking and that's going to be a huge political issue. we'll have people fighting in walmarts about whether or not they have to wear their masks on planes. we are but we still are, and we're going to have to go back to masking. and the reason is because of the unvaccinated. they're allowing the variants into the country and getting the vaccinated people sick. the only way to keep it from

passing person to person, if you're not going to get a vaccine, is to wear a mask. let's turn to the impact on the olympics. ahead of friday's opening ceremony, rising tennis star coco gauff has tested positive for the coronavirus and will not make her olympic debut in tokyo. molly hunter has more. >> reporter: 17-year-old tennis star coco gauff announced she tested positive for covid-19 forcing her to pull out of the olympics. i am so disappointed to share the news she wrote on social distancing -- wrote on social media. i want to wish team usa the best of luck. it's unclear if she was vaccinated before traveling to europe or where she tested positive. in tokyo with less than a week to the opening ceremony the case numbers are rising. >> there is no such thing as

zero risk, on that we all agree. at the same time, the mingling of crossing of population is incredibly limited. incredibly limited. and we can ensure that transmission between the various groups is almost impossible. i'm qualifying almost. >> reporter: since july 1st, according to the organizing committee, 55 people under their jurisdiction tested positive for covid. including four athletes, four media and the other games concern personnel. on sunday, the south african team announced two players had tested positive in the olympic village. >> screening program since 1st of july has already delivered more than 30,000 results. that's how diligent we are in terms of monitoring the population which is here and we'll continue to do so. >> reporter: dozens of people following strict protocol now under quarantine. athletes just hoping they won't

have to miss their big events. >> thanks to nbc's molly hunter for that report. this just in, a female gymnast from the united states has tested positive for coronavirus. the japanese city hosting the athlete at a pre-tournament camp for the olympic games confirmed the news of the ininfection this morning but has not released their name. let's bring in katty kay. here we go. i was talking about the masking necessary and wonder what will happen to the tokyo games as the number of those who are being diagnosed with the coronavirus goes up because this is spreading everywhere now. again, pointing back to the unvaccinated who are really creating a problem in this country, and i will quote the u.s. surgeon general on our show

who says right now every death that we are seeing from covid could have been prevented. this is a vicious cycle. what are you hearing? >> we're in the position in the united states where everybody can get a vaccine, everybody can get multiple vaccines and yet some people are turning them down and around the world you have countries where people are begging for vaccines and can't get them. you have this extraordinary inequity emerging now and it's allowing for all of these variants. 80% of japanese didn't want the olympics to go ahead, they were in a state of emergency in tokyo before the olympics started and they didn't want it because of what's happening, when you have a big movement of people and a lot of people living together in close quarters -- we may all be acting, thinking the coronavirus pandemic is over. it hasn't stopped, it's there.

but if you don't do the things that we know are available to prevent it. if you don't get your vaccines, if you don't wear masks, if you don't get a vaccine, it's going to carry on spreading. i keep hearing cases now from the uk of people double vaccinated and are getting coronavirus again. they're not getting in hospital, they're not dying, not tesh bli sick but what if they meet somebody who hasn't been vaccinated, that person could get really sick. maybe the people in the u.s. in those states where they haven't been vaccinated maybe they'll wake up and realize they have to be because the coronavirus is spreading again. we're seeing it everywhere. >> and facebook is taking on the white house after president biden called out the coronavirus misinformation on the social media platform. the social media giant pushed back against the biden administration's assertion that conspiracy theories found on the website are fuelling resistance

to the vaccine. president biden making his views apparent in striking comments on friday. >> what's your message to platforms like facebook? >> they're killing people. i mean, they're really -- look, the only pandemic we have is among the unvaccinated. and they're killing people. >> in a blog post facebook slammed the administration's position writing in part, at a time when covid-19 cases are rising in america, the biden administration has chosen to blame a handful of american social media companies. the company goes on to say, the data shows 85% of facebook users in the u.s. have been or want to be vaccinated against covid-19. president biden's goal was for 70% of the americans to be vaccinated by july 4th. facebook is not the reason this goal was missed. you know what? facebook is definitely a part of

the reason the goal was not mixed. and facebook is a large reason why trump's lies have festered across this country. so that statement is rather interesting. let's bring in senior reporter dylan buyers. what is facebook doing in that response? the lies fester every day on facebook. that's the truth. and donald trump used facebook and twitter many times to promull gate his lies until he was banned from twitter. how do we reconcile what facebook's position is and what most, including the president of the united states, and those who study this, believe and that right now it's a platform that spreads disinformation?

>> well, look, i think that, you know, on the one hand you're right. you can find almost anything on facebook. i think what was disappointing here is that for a long time facebook was actually commended for its response to the covid pandemic and then to vaccine information in light of the fact it was able to draw much clearer lines around fact and fiction than it usually is. as ed young your previous guest from the atlantic said, this has become quite political. and what facebook has run up against, there are claims they can take down rather quickly. the assertion that vaccines are a way to plant micro chips in people, they change dna, things like that. but they're running up against things that facebook always runs up against which is this issue of how do you balance fact versus friction and infringe on

speech and allow people to say what they want, and open up a pandora's box telling people what they can and can't say and that has ramifications for different issues down the line. when you ask what is facebook doing from the response? they saw from the white house, then the press secretary, then the surgeon general and then the president himself a particularly aggressive effort to go after them and in their view to blame them for the administration's failure to hit that goal that it had for vaccines. and they had a decision, they could be what they thought was the scapegoat for that, or they could decide they weren't going to take it lying down and they were going to say, no, look. yes, yes, we are doing our best to combat misinformation on the platform and we'll always have work to do on that front but by the same token a lot of the reason people were able to go out and get vaccinated, be convinced to get vaccinated, nowhere to get vaccinated was

because of us, social media platforms where people were able to share the information. i think what's sad here, mika, you have -- with the obama administration with the biden administration you had the chance to hit is reset button with the white house and silicone valley and now they're going to defcon one in terms of going after one another. i'm not sure how productive that is for either side. i'm not sure it's productive for the administration and facebook to have this debate. >> it's jonathan lemire. this idea that was a pretty powerful off the cuff statement from the president on friday and we read facebook's statement, they were happy to hit back, where do we go from here in terms of the relationship between washington and silicone valley? what steps could happen? could we see hearings about this

on the hill? what other measures may we see, obviously with the free speech backdrop to all of this or is this going to be more sniping back and forth with little changes on the platform itself? >> i had conversations with both facebook and the white house over the weekend. and i would say both sides are being tight lipped about what the state of those back channel conversations are. i don't see this blowing open into something like legislation or anything like that and largely because of what you talked about, the free speech issue. nobody wants the government telling private companies what people are and aren't allow today say on their platform. that runs counter to people's perspectives on free speech and the first amendment. but i think there are a lot of people, particularly among democrats, frustrated with the way facebook is handling speech

and wish they would do less. i think more on the right want them to do less. i think they have to find a way to work constructively and where the conversation happening publicly reflects conversations up until the last 72 hours, where they were trying to find ways to work together to get the job job which is what the biden administration has been focused on until now of just getting shots in if arms. >> the one thing i'm confused about is where everyone should have free speech to say what they want on their platform. no. the platform is facebook. and facebook should be treated like a publisher. if something untrue is on that platform, one should be able to sue for spreading disinformation? isn't there legislation that could create a scenario where that exists? right now you have the wild west

out there. you have everybody saying everything and things being created on facebook as if it was news, it's sort of a semipublisher, a way to spread really good information but also a way to spread really bad information. aren't they having it both ways? and every time they say we're going to get better, that's like a decade now they've been saying we're going to get better. are we really that stupid, dylan? they're never going to get better, unless they can be sued. >> that's a great question, and it's too early on the west coast for me to get into section 230 law. but there is an argument to be made that you should takeaway their immunity that facebook should be responsible for what appears on their platform. i think the point that i'm trying to make is that when we see these issues about misinformation or harmful content spreading on social media, i think we have a gut

reaction, which is facebook doesn't care enough, facebook should be doing more, they could be doing more. i think the only thing i'm trying to articulate is the view from facebook is different. their view is we don't see this one issue in a vacuum. we see that anything we do where we start telling people what they can and can't say begins to open up all sorts of questions about how we apply that in the future with different issues and globally on a global scale. again to go back to my initial point. with covid, it was easier for them to say what you could and could not say. you could not say that bill gates is trying to plant chips in people and that's why we have vaccines. you cannot say vaccines cause autism on the platform. people continue to find ways to skirt the issues. it's fair to say that facebook could do more.

they could be far more aggressive in terms of how they police that content and get rid of more content that skirts the line of misinformation or misleading content. what they are trying to do, and i think this reflects the philosophy of mark zuckerberg himself and frustrated people, particularly people on the left, is he is constantly thinking about the long game of protecting speech. and as a private company he can do what he wants. he can shutdown speech, keep speech open to a fault, but that is the philosophy governing what he is doing. and why we'll constantly continue to run into these issues about where harmful content runs up against the line of acceptable speech. >> at this point there are going to be more people dead than free to speak on that platform. i think we can have free speech without facebook. let people be able to sue them, treat them like a publisher, section 230, when you're more

awake we'll talk about it. i hear what you're saying, but that actually is -- is not -- it's not good enough anymore. i want to protect free speech. no. we want people to be protected from disinformation. to be protected from dying in this country. to be protected from people like donald trump who spread information, who love to make sure that the division and the death continues. nbc's dylan byers thank you for your opinion. come back. let's talk about this more. i want to talk about donald trump and his followers and the doubt that he is now sowing in the biden administration, and sowing doubts about the vaccine and using the biden administration as the enemy to the vaccine. he's twisting it again. let's just look at the facts. look at the hospital records.

look at the people who are still dying. the u.s. surgeon general says 99% of those people who are dying don't have vaccines. they all could be preventable deaths. and all of the heartbreaking stories of the husbands or wives being put on ventilators and dying and in the last moments, their last breaths of life, they regret that they listened to politicians or cable news hosts who followed their dangerous demented advice instead of listening to their doctor. we've been saying that those people following donald trump off a cliff were living as if it was like a cult. let's be clear about this. this is not cult-like behavior. this is not like a cult. this is now how people behave when they are in a cult.

if you want to know why, it's because they are, in fact, living in had a cult, that's the definition of one and it's killing them. whether you're talking about david can risch and waco or donald trump's lies about covid, people died and people are dying. and they are dying because donald trump and his evil allies on cable news and social media and on capitol hill, seems like a very strong word "evil," until you understand just how many people this cult continues to kill. also making headlines this morning, president biden's bipartisan infrastructure deal faces a major test this week. will lawmakers agree on how to pay for the package before a wednesday vote? plus while republicans down played what happened on january 6th, many gop lawmakers knew the

reality of what was unfolding during the capitol riot, phillip bump joining us with that new reporting. it's sentencing day for the first january 6th felony defendant. we'll talk about how today's outcome could set the benchmark for other insurrectionists facing charges. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. u're watchi" we'll be right back. ice cream is like whooping cough, it's not just for kids. whooping cough is highly contagious for people of any age. and it can cause violent uncontrollable coughing fits. ask your doctor or pharmacist about whooping cough vaccination because it's not just for kids.

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welcome back to "morning joe," a live look at the capitol, pretty nice day in d.c. dozens of people from across the country gathered outside a washington d.c. jail on saturday to protest for the release of people charged in the january 6th capitol riot.

"the washington post" reports, the group was protesting about 50 people being held in the jail whom they called non-violent american patriots. but one of those alleged patriots will face sentencing later today, the first under felony charges. joining us scott mcfarlane who's covering the sentencing and plea bargaining hearings today for their charges in the capitol insurrection. scott you say today is a big day. frame it out for us. >> it's the perfect test case today, paul hogekins of florida faces sentencing we could get a good read on what others could face after hearing his sentence. here's why. the feds say he didn't assault anyone or break anything inside

the capitol. but he was in the chamber with a flag, and the possibility of violence with rope, goggles and gloves. prosecutors are going to ask the judge to sentence him to 18 months in prison today. let's see what the judge decides. does he spare him prison, or does he go higher and give him more prison time. i can give you a preview of the arguments. hogekins is going to ask for leniency saying he showed courage and strength by being among the first to plead guilty and draw an analogy to the civil war, the leniency grant showed lee, an interesting choice. the feds will argue about the collective damage, the $1.4 million in damage to the property at the capitol, the emotional and physical damage to 100 plus officers and they're going to say when he walked to

the capitol, he had 1.7 miles to change his mind and he did not. >> elise. >> elise jordan here, scott. this individual is one of so many who stormed the capitol, who destroyed property, who wielded, you know, violent weapons. maybe not in his case, but there just isn't though -- doesn't seem like there's going to be much repercussions for what happened that day and very few individuals are actually going to serve any time for their role in it. do you think that it's, at the end of the day, a very hard thing to prosecute? >> there's another tier of defendants who are, in my words here, higher than paul hogekins. there are defendants who are accused of assaulting police with chemical spray, baseball bats, hockey sticks and sharpened flag polls.

so hogekins gives us a read on whether judges are going to take a firm or soft line based on what the prosecutors argue. but there are so many more facing the possibility of several years of prison. this may be a good test case but it's not the ceiling. >> nbc 4 washington investigative reporter scott mcfarlane thank you very much. and republican lawmakers inside the capitol on january 6th, they understood the real danger despite what some of them say now. "the washington post" makes this argument in a new piece based on the reporting in an upcoming book by washington post journalists. dan sullivan of alaska reportedly called the joint chiefs chairman, mark milley, to warn him that the situation in the capitol was really fed up down here. meanwhile, senator lindsey graham reportedly called ivanka

trump to get her father to, quote, tell these people to leave. staunch trump supporter madison cawthorn told a paper the day after the attack, i don't want to exaggerate here but it was the closest i've ever been thinking to 9/11, thinking a major monument to success and prosperity is being attacked by people who want to subvert it. the north carolina republican added a lot of those people probably would have voted for me, but i can't support that. with more on the analysis on how republicans felt as the capitol was overtaken by angry trump supporters let's bring in phillip bump. this backs up my cult argument, i'm sorry. but these republicans who were there, who were barricading doors, fleeing for their lives. probably more scared than

they've ever been in their lives. who were in a situation where people died, capitol police officers died, rioters died. where there was chaos, violence, and the american flag was used to pummel and torture capitol cops. where our democracy was interrupted as it was in process. these people are now standing by trump in their argument that, oh, nothing to see here. can you tell us more about what you found in terms of republicans who had very different reactions days later than they did in real time. >> it's really quite fascinating to see, even for those who are not actively saying this is not as big a deal as made out to be. there's a lot of silence as well. a lot of people not saying here's what happened. if you look at the record, the

piece to which you refer is a combination of new reporting and old news articles. but you have all sorts of legislatures who in that moment are reacting strongly as one would expect with an angry mob beating down the doors of the chamber. liz cheney telling off jim jordan, a strong trump ally. saying he was to blame for it. mitt romney on the senate side doing the same to some of his colleagues, including josh hawley. kellyanne conway reported calling trump hey you have to do something about this. there are all these people in the moment saying this is a crisis that needs to be fixed. who then, days or weeks later, are sitting mute or actively supporting the idea -- there's a famous photo of representative clive helping to barricade the door, shouting, and who later

said it was a normal tourist visit. >> perhaps the most famous example was gop mccarthy who was on a phone call with trump saying these are your supporters tell them to stop. the two men got in a heated back and forth exchange and then later mccarthy sided with trump. speaking of kevin mccarthy, we believe he's going to be announcing gop representatives for speaker pelosi's select committee on the events of that day. what are you anticipating? what are you hearing, reporting as to who might be on there? if not particular names, what are the broad themes? is this going to continue the trend, republicans whitewashing and down playing what happened? >> that's absolutely the case. the fact that leader mccarthy himself, who is reported by a member of his own caucus to have been told by the president that he didn't love his country enough, which is a mind boggling

thing we've heard it for months but we're used it to it by now but there's no political impetus, this goes to mika's point, there's no impetus for kevin mccarthy to take a strong stand against donald trump right now, beyond the american public rising up saying this is something we're concerned about. within the republican party there remains confidence in donald trump and remains a lot of interest in move past this as well, recognizing the obviously more problematic aspects of it. but kevin mccarthy is not going to put forward people who he thinks are going to take a critical eye towards president trump's behavior or the republicans' behavior. i don't think he's going to nominate marjorie taylor greene who said she's going to submarine it if she can. but maybe jim jordan, who holds

leadership positions but is not going to be there trying to make the commission successful. >> "the washington post's" phillip bump thank you very much. tomorrow we're joined by carol lenog and phillip rutker. the two stories we framed at the top, two strains, that's covid-19 and the january 6th insurrection, that's what it was, and in both cases, what you're seeing is massive groups of people, including our leaders and hosts on fox and other trump networks and their desire to really deny the truth in the name of their cult leader, donald trump. coming up, new cases of havana syndrome are popping up among u.s. diplomats in austria. intelligence officials are intensifying efforts to figure out what or who is behind the

mysterious health incidents. plus more flash flooding hits germany. we'll have the latest on the enormous scale of destruction. and former fda commissioner dr. scott gottlieb will be our guest this morning, after warning that the delta variant could be the most serious virus unvaccinated americans get in their lifetime. "morning joe" is coming right back. time "morning joe" is coming right back look at you! getting back to normal. or at least your 2021 version of what normal should be. and no matter what that is, walgreens is here to help you do it your way. with delivery in as little as one hour. because now... things come to you. same day vaccination appointments. because you're ready. and walgreens cash rewards you can donate back to your community. the new normal? have to admit, it does have its upside.

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victory, fans applauded 24-year-old american collin morikawa yesterday as he closed with a boeing free 4 under 66 for the win in his debut at the british open. he's now the first golfer to capture two different majors on the first attempt. joining us now u.s. national editor at the financial times, ed luce, and also president on the council of foreign relations, richard haass, who's also our golf correspondent and do you have anything to say this morning? >> i don't think your introduction captured it. the idea he went the last 31 holes without a bogey. the idea that he's 24. he did this in his first go in the tournament and he doesn't hit the ball a mile. he is as much of a throw back to pure golf as we have seen in

years. and it is just wonderful to watch him. he's so composed. he is so ready for this kind of pressure. this is an extraordinary young athlete who i think is going to be playing at the highest level for literally decades to come. he is somebody to admire and to watch. >> okay. collin morikawa wins british open for a second major. we'll be following his story. and now we'll move to foreign policy, and richard haass you say there are two issues affecting our national security, foreign policy and they're not necessarily afghanistan or iran or china, although they're all huge issues but more like coronavirus for starters. and explain how that's creeping back into what could impact our strength in the world.

>> it's hurting us in two ways. the great accomplishment of the biden administration early on was the demonstration of american competence. to produce in large numbers this vaccine and then to distribute it around the american people and people around the world said, wow, this is the america we recognize. now that's eroding. we are now under mining or diluting that positive impression and what this is sending is the signal that again this is a fundamentally divided country that doesn't have the basic social consensus. so it's weakening us both here at home physically and economically. it's going to get in the way of an economic recovery. it's going to be uneven. we came out of the covid with tremendous inequality. this is going to exacerbate it big time and this is part of a larger problem around the world which is covid isn't going away. you see what's happening in the uk. the global response in terms of vaccine production and distribution is inadequate, so

much of the world won't recover. variants will keep popping up. this phrase we use, global international community, guess what, there isn't one. there's no stepping up. >> totally understand and agree with that. i want to come back to our foreign policy but what's going on in the uk? how do we compare? >> reporter: i'm delighted you're not asking me about the golf in the uk. richard has covered that well and i have nothing to add. today, boris johnson, the prime minister, has pronounced as freedom day. this is the day where britain doesn't just relax restrictions, it's making a bonfire of them, getting rid of all restrictions, social distancing, masking mandates, everything, and declaring it to be freedom day. and this is at a time when the

infection rate because of the delta variant has risen by a factor of ten in the last six weeks. by a factor of ten. we're up to about 50,000 infections a day, twice the level of infections as america is having with a fifth of the population. and forecast to double again to 100,000 a day, which is the height of where it was during the worst of the pandemic. so there is almost an outcry from scientists, not just in britain, but outside of britain, to protest against the measure. there seems to be two gears in britain, either severe lockdown or complete free-for-all, and boris johnson is switching from one to the other with no gears in between. it's an experiment would be the

polite way of putting it. i think it's a highly risky one and will result, at least this is what scientists are warning, in exactly the opposite of what johnson intends, which is another lockdown come the fall and early winter, because this is giving the virus the opportunity to breathe, circulate, mutate and develop new strengths. >> so it's the top of the hour and we're talking with richard haass and ed luce about the two real foreign policy challenges they're seeing around the world as it pertains to the united states of america. the first is the resurgence of the coronavirus and how that impacts the stability around the world. we have a pandemic happening among the unvaccinated right now, what's important politically there and the message being sent around the world is that donald trump still reigning supreme among his

followers and he's putting out statements that the vaccine can't be trusted under the biden administration although he himself had the vaccine, mucking up efforts to get this country vaccinated and safe from the coronavirus, putting the virus behind us, mucking up the efforts, even though he himself is vaccinated. the other big issue is climate change that richard wanted to talk about. case in point, devastation in western europe where more than 180 people have died in historic floods and hundreds are missing. germany is one of the countries hit hardest but the country is promising to recover. we talked with survivors and reports from germany's flood zone. >> reporter: as the water reseeds, a look at the vast devastation in germany. neighbors and strangers working together to clear out the debris. as the traumatic sets in.

>> he was calling help, help, i can't swim. >> reporter: 12 people died at this assisted care facility. neighbors heard the cries and wanted to help but were helpless. >> i wanted to help, they couldn't open the windows and couldn't open the doors because it was also inside. >> so they were trapped inside? >> reporter: some three months worth of rain falling in 24 hours, streams and creeks turning into raging rivers, collapsing homes, taking out everything in its path. he was trapped on the fourth floor of the building for two days waiting for the waters to recede. residents saving what they can. as police searched for hundreds still missing. german chancellor, angle merkel, toured the devastation promising aid to help rebuild.

>> we have dr. scott gottlieb standing by to talk about the crisis but richard haass, issue number two, explain especially after those incredible pictures out of germny. >> germany is suffering from floods. we have the extreme heat and fires out west. more severe storms than other parts of the counted. there's a record number of people in the world on the move, who are migrants in many cases not out of choice but because of climate change reducing the space they can live in. this is another global crisis and another example where the world is not stepping up. the crisis is outpacing our willingness and ability to deal with it. i think the scenes we're viewing here are not one offs. we're going to see more of them and worse of them because the world is not showing the will to come together to catch up. one word you're going to hear a

lot is words like adaptation or resilience. in some cases it's too late to stop climate change, big parts of it are baked into things we're seeing it. it's a present problem. the question is how will germany, the united states and every other country in the world going to cope with not a future problem, but a present problem. we thought we could put it off, we can't any longer. there's an urgency that we don't see the policy world reflecting. >> richard haass thank you. and ed luce, before you go, what do you think the one issue is that threatens u.s. security and the uk? >> i would agree that in the sort of not even the long term anymore but the short and medium term, the pandemic and climate change are overwhelming issues. the last six months, going to be six months tomorrow that biden

will have been president and the last six months, a lot of it has been focused on u.s./china relations, u.s./russian relations. but the way that america i think can re-establish its global leadership most effectively is providing answers on these two questions because they're the ones with the climate refugees and pandemic refugees that we're seeing. they're the ones that are generating most dislocation, most pain around the world, at the forefront of people's minds. there is going to be a major climate change summit at the end of this year in britain, in glasgow, so far the west has not stumped up the money that it said it was going to stump up to help the front line countries in the developing world cope with climate change. just as it hasn't really stumped up the money for vaccines yet on anything like the scale we need.

the west needs to fund these things more generously for its own sake, its own self-interest. i think the next six months of biden we're going to be increasingly focused on that. >> all right. ed luce, thank you very much. more now to our top story which he touched on. covid-19 cases continue to rise in all 50 states, particularly in areas with low vaccinations. according to a white house official, as of friday, nearly 20% of the nation's new coronavirus infections are occurring in florida alone. the cdc says almost all recent cases have impacted those who have not received a covid-19 vaccine. meanwhile more countries across the nation may follow los angeles' lead and ramp up restrictions as the surge in new cases renews calls for more mask mandates. let's bring in former fad

commissioner dr. scott gottlieb. his fourth coming book is titled uncontrolled spread. why covid-19 crushed us and how we can defeat the next pandemic. i want to start with a few quick rapid fire questions at the top here. do you agree with the u.s. surgeon general that every covid death we're seeing now could be prevented? >> most could be, certainly. 97% of the hospitalizations occurring right now are among unvaccinated people. you will see break through infections in vaccinated people we're seeing that. but this is an epidemic occurring in the unvaccinated by and large. >> the delta variant, how much is it whipping through the country and are those who are getting the coronavirus with the delta variant younger and sicker? >> well, the people who are getting infected right now tend to be younger. not necessarily more sick. we're not sure that this variant is more pathogenic but they tend

to be younger. you probably have a smaller pool of susceptible people about 50% of the population has been vaccinated and at least a third of the vaccination has been previously infected with covid. it does seem to be the case that prior infections protect against the new variant. so the pool of people susceptible is much smaller, about 25% of the population but that's still a lot of people. and the challenge is this variant is so infectious and it's going to move quickly through the population. so you'll see brisk spread. even though there's a smaller pool of people to become infected by it, they're going to become infected very quickly and that's going to overwhelm local health care systems which is what we're seeing in states like missouri. >> this is being called a pandemic among the unvaccinated but my question to you dr. scott gottlieb, are vaccinated people

at risk of getting covid because we are hearing more stories of people who have gotten vaccine who are getting covid. who are they getting it from? >> i'm on the board of pfizer, as you know. we're looking closely at the data in israel, one of the concerns is there's declining vaccine effectiveness over time. so you're seeing more break through cases over time, six, seven, eight months out. but the vaccine still appears to be very protective against the delta variant, against infection but it's protective against hospitalization and death. if you look at israel and the uk right now you're seeing a decouping infections and badout comes. so even though infections are going up, hospitalizations aren't going up like they did previously. that being the case, cdc is not tracking break through infections in the outpatient setting of people who have been

vaccinated and they should be. they're only tracking people who are vaccinated and become infected and hospitalized so we need to look at this more closely. >> two questions that could get into the realm of politics but i don't mean them to. should we know who's vaccinated? would that help? >> look, i think this is information that people can disclose at their discretion, disclose based on what they're doing. people should have a right to ask the question. if you're going into a setting you could be putting people at risk, that setting has the right to ask you that question. we've seen some states, including florida, prevent businesses from doing that. hospitals, if you're going to go visit a loved one in the hospital, the hospital has the right to restrict access to people who have been vaccinated to lower the odds of infection in that setting. so they have to be able to ask that question. >> next question, what's the threat level of this variant,

and this pandemic among the unvaccinated? should we go back to wearing masks? >> you know, look, i don't think we're going to is the bottom wlien there's not a lot of support for that. people worried about covid are vaccinated now so you don't have support from that contingent. and people unvaccinated were never worried about covid. but local regions with dense settings should be considering masks. but you have to talk about higher quality masks because cloth or dusk mask isn't going to be fully protective against a more contagious variant. we need n95 mask, quality masks to people vulnerable who want to use that mask to protect them. the other thing we ought to think about doing right now is limiting gatherings indoors in settings you have a high prevalence, that's the highest risk right now you go into this indoor space with poor

ventilation, that's a super spreader events. if authorities just look at those and prevent them for a month or two during the delta variant that could be important as well. >> you mentioned your work with pfizer, pfizer and the federal government, have had a conversation in the last week or two about the need for booster shots with right now u.s. officials suggesting they're not necessary despite, as discussed, the looming dangers posed by the delta variant. can you give us an update as to where things stand and as to why you believe or pfizer believes booster shots will be needed if not now, down the road? >> you're seeing decline against infection in the israeli data. they're doing a good job tracking it. that doesn't mean the vaccine isn't still protecting against hospitalization and death, it is but you're seeing more break through infections in israel

among the population that was vaccinated. they're seven, eight months out in some cases from when people completed the series. so you're seeing a decline in effectiveness and we're seeing it in the u.s. data. so it's not surprising over time you're going to see a decline in effectiveness. it might be the case after a third booster you have more durability. it might be the case this is an annual vaccine and the length of protection six months to a year. you get residual protections against hospitalizations and severe outcomes. we always contemplated that you would need boosters or might need boosters. we were talking about that early at the outset. people didn't want that discussion early on. i don't think this is a big surprise. i don't think it represents that the vaccines don't work. it just represents that you might need an additional booster or you need to be vaccinated on an annual basis. i think people right now are going to have a vaccine that

protects through the fall and winter. people in april or may that are younger, that vaccine will protect them through the fall and winter. we're talking about vaccinating people in december and january, those were people who were in nursing homes and elderly people. i think we're looking hard at giving that contingent boosters. you don't want people in nursing homes going into the fall wave with declining immunity, they're most at risk. >> one group that cannot be vaccinated yet are children, those 12 and under. can you give us an update as to where things stand, the timetable to when those children would be able to receive a vaccine and as a part two of that, if it's not ready by september, would you have any hesitation considering the rise and threat from the delta variant? would you have any hesitation in having children be in person school this fall? >> the vaccine won't be ready for 12 and under in time for the

school season. i don't have hesitation seeing schools resume but they need to take precautions to reduce the risks. schools can be made more safe with precautions. there's three vaccines in development, the one we have on the market, that's available for people 12 and above, a 30 micro gram dose vaccine, at least in pfizer's situation. so for people ages 5 to 11, pfizer's developing a 10 micro gram vaccine, it's a lower dose. and children ages 6 months to four years, that's going to be a 3 microgram vaccine, those are three doses developed in clinical trials. talking about the vaccine for children ages 5 to 11, the data will be out in september. fda has made a statement it could be available on the market at some point in mid to late winter. i think that's a reasonable timetable. fda looks at children at 12 and

above as little adults. so they're willing to extrapolate data down from adults. looking 12 and under, the fda looks at them as children and put them through a different development process. >> doctor, do we know if people who have been double vaccinated and catch the new variant can then transmit it to other people? and a quick second question, should people who had the johnson & johnson vaccine or the double dose of the astrazeneca vaccine be getting one of the mrna, the pfizer or moderna, vaccine because they seem to be more effective against the delta variant. >> the first question is a great question, they're both goods but the first one is a really good. we know the vaccines reduce the risk of transmitting the infection. we know that from the clinical data. that's why cdc initially lifted the mask mandate for people

fully vaccinated. with delta we think you're d developing a high viral load, you're likely to be more contagious and exude more virus, so is the vaccine as effective as presenting -- preventing a vaccine that presents that way? the answer is no. we need to start tracking the information to see where the vaccine is breaking through, what the settings are and if there's situations where people who have break through infections after vaccination are going on to spread the virus. right now the cdc is only tracking break throughs among people who become hospitalized. they need to broaden that. that's why we put stock in the israel data, they are tracking the outpatient setting. that's why we're looking closely at that. i forgot your second question.

>> i got a couple. probably includes hers. what are you most worried about? i want to understand where you think we are compared to when new york city was ground zero and things were pretty much at rock bottom with the coronavirus. how concerned are you about the state of things right now? especially among the unvaccinated. and given that you're on the pfizer board and you work for the government, there's a lot of public health experience you have. what are the reasons for the vaccine hesitancy? what's being done to combat it? first, what's the threat level of the coronavirus resurgence right now? >> look, i'm very worried about what we're seeing around the country. we're seeing it against the backdrop of a fairly normal resumption of activity. people are taking precautions, everything is not back to 100%

of 2019. but people are out and about and the spread is happening against that backdrop. i don't think the country is going to hunker down, maybe on a regional basis. this is going to be a less deadly we have a. more of the infection is going to happen against younger, healthier people. the case fatality rate in the uk right now looks to be about .3%. still higher than flu but not around 1% at the outset of this pandemic. so i think it's going to be a very brisk epidemic across the country asdell delta variant moves through. so i'm worried about where we are right now and i think this is going to play out fairly quickly. in terms of the vaccine hesitation, this is driven by different things for different people. i think a lot of it is disinformation, people guided by

the perceived impact of the vaccine on fertility, there's no evidence. the thing unsafe in pregnancy is getting covid right now. the cdc is tracking a data base that includes 133,000 women vaccinated during pregnancy. so there's misinformation about how the skrooen vaccine works, risks about the vaccine. i think that's creating a lot of hesitancy. for a lot of people it's still inconvenient to get a vaccine, they figure they're not at risk, they'll get around to it. they're just not motivated consumers but there are that contingent of people who have been misinformed. >> if you're pregnant, should you get the vaccine? >> i think so. people should talk to their obstetrician about that, obviously have a conversation. but the most riskiest thing to do in pregnancy right now would

be to get covid while you're pregnant. >> former fda commissioner, scott gottlieb, thank you for being on this morning. we'll see you soon. a federal appeals court left pandemic restrictions on cruise ships in place just minutes before they were set to be lifted at midnight under a previous order from a district judge in tampa. "the new york times" notes the temporary stay keeps the cdc regulations regarding florida based cruise ships in place while the agency appeals the earlier decision on the lawsuit brought by florida governor ron desantis. it claims that the cdc multiple step process to allow cruising from florida is overly burdenensome, harming the industry. governor desantis who touted the ruling from the tampa court that the cdc's rules should be considered nonbinding recommendations, could not be

reached for comment. still ahead on "morning joe," former president trump, is going on a speaking tour with bill o'reilly but they appear to be having trouble selling tickets. from the battle of gettysburg to bloody sunday, a look at the most defining moments in american history that brought us to where we are today. we'll bring in two renowned historians for that discussion. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. joe." we'll be right back. i order my groceries online now. shingles doesn't care. i keep my social distance. shingles doesn't care. i stay within my family bubble. shingles doesn't care.

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i got my first dose of the fauci ouchie. >> i'm olivia rodrigo. >> i'm tony fauci. >> today we're in the white house and we're going to read some tweets. did anyone else spend their friday afternoon driving to their second vaccine appointment and crying to olivia rodrigo?

i love that, i'm happy i'm sound tracking to your vaccine. that makes me happy. >> happy man crush monday to this hero. thank you dr. fauci for all of your hard work. we appreciate your intelligence, honest, bravery and compassion. we love you. that's very nice. >> do you know what man crush means? >> no idea. >> that was olivia rodrigo and dr. anthony fauci encouraging people to get vaccinated against covid-19. whatever it takes. rodrigo recorded a series of social media style public service announcements while visiting the white house last week, helping the biden administration spread the word on the importance of vaccines for people her age. the former president appears to be struggling to sell tickets to a speaking tour with former fox news host bill o'reilly. donald trump and o'reilly announced a joint history tour. featuring four stops in december.

tickets went on sale on june 14th. however, hundreds, if not thousands, of tickets remain available at all four venues in florida and texas. this is a look at how many seats are still available in both dallas and orlando. the blue represents tickets for sale. and as you can see, there's quite a few left. the cheapest seats are around 100 bucks, not counting the roughly $30 in fees. while the most expensive can go forasmuch as 8,500 and includes a meet and greet. politico spoke with o'reilly about the struggles who called the report false and then threatened to sue the reporter despite not being able to provide any numbers for how many tickets have actually been sold. as we grapple with one of the most tumultuous periods in if history, a limited run podcast is looking at the country's most notable events that paved the way to where we are today.

the podcast entitled "hope through history" takes listeners back in time to some of the most transformational chapters in america's past. it's written and narrated by presidential historian jon meacham. and jon joins us now. also with us professor at harvard university, annette gordon reed. good to have you both on board with us this morning. i say on board, it's a pun to an extent. jon meacham, let's go over these two events. what's the first one? >> on board, i get it. sorry it took me a second. it's too early. the podcast, it's sort of designed for mika when she's having difficulty sleeping. we wanted to be able to -- what i do. look, narrative and story is the way we learn. this is as old as the campfire

and homer. and i believe, and i think annette would agree, that the past is not a gps system, it's not something you can type in the coordinates and decide where to go, but there is a diagnostic guide. there are symptoms that occurred, things that are evident to our eyes that suggest an underlying condition and that might suggest a treatment. and so, one of the things i wanted to try to do here was look at moments of crisis -- and crisis, by the way, comes from the greek about a moment of decision in the course of a disease where the patient lives or dies. that's the initial term. and so, a crisis is not just a difficult time, it's a turning point. and american democracy is at such a turning point today. the most fundamental, i'd argue,

since fort sumpter so how do we move through this? how do we find the light, how do we find the will to change hearts, to change laws, to enforce laws in order to keep this experiment going. an experiment that has to be about a more perfect and more just union. >> so my bad on board parallel was about the sinking of the lucitania, tell us about it. >> there's no larger event arguably in human history than world war i. i once asked david fromkin, the historian, he was writing about his fifth or six book on world war i. i say why do you go back to world war i? he said, why would anyone write about anything else. and lusitania, that day was like

december 7, 1941 and like september 11, 2001 for that generation of americans. it was this sense that fortress america could not dwell unengaged from the world. and one of the things we have to remember about world war i is that the forces that shaped america's slow engagement in it are the forces of isolationism, they're the forces we're dealing with again today. woodrow wilson used the phrase america first in the period leading up to world war i and, you know, as churchill later said, you cannot be this strong and this important a country and be disengaged from its concerns.

>> and contrary to what meacham says, the podcast does not make me fall asleep. so annette gordon reed, his second event is bloody sunday and the voting rights act of 19 act of 1965. if you can look at that, especially the challenge we're looking at today as it pertains to vote rights. >> voting is an essential part of being an adult citizen, eligible voter in a democratic republic. and it had been fought for for many, many years. the 15th amendment gave black men the right to vote after the civil war. and the idea was that they would be able to participate in their governance. we know what happened after that, at the end of reconstruction, laws were put in place, there was intimidation put in place, voter suppression active and direct, all of those things to keep the former

enslaved people from participating in the government. we're at a moment now we see efforts to limit the right to the franchise, people are fighting against it, but it is a moment of truth. because what kind of government are we going to have if large numbers of citizens, people who pay taxes, go to wars, want to participate in civic life aren't able to do that. this moment we're in harkens back to bloody sunday to the time period where people were fighting to make the promises of democracy real. elise jordan here, jon. you include president george w. bush's initiative in africa to stop the spread of aids and his historic contribution there of american aid. can you talk a bit about why you're including that significant achievement of medical diplomacy and what we

also can learn from our experience with africa as applied today with medical diplomacy throughout the world during this time of pandemic. >> even medical diplomacy here in the united states as we deal with reluctance to take the advantage. the emergency plan for aids relief was one of the great -- is one of the great instances of american humanitarianism in our history. it's estimated perhaps 20 million people are alive today would not be alive if, in fact, the president in that tumultuous, controversial time, in 2002 and early 2003, had not taken this step. he announces it in the state of the union in 2003, which, of course, was right on the cusp of the iraq war.

but what he was doing was saying that he was a humanitarian issue, grew out of his own faith, sense he needed grace and he could therefore, if he could help offer help. but also a national security issue. if the world looked at america as not just strength but a source of hope and help they would be less likely to become radicalized. it's a genuinely remarkable achievement on par with the plan on a sense. it's a super partisan thing. melody barnes, who was president obama's domestic policy adviser is on that episode talking about how the biden administration followed suit. and so, i think it's a case where it's not just

compassionate conservativism, though that's important, it's national compassion, international compassion, and it's an example of -- it's a place where the united states, for all of its imperfections, for all of its flaws, was able to shed light instead of simply being this clinically strong nation. and if we did it once, we can do it again. >> jon, i guess the first -- you know, the biggest example of that shedding light was in your first episode fdr and churchill and that slow walk to war. and, of course, church hill wanted america to get involved in the war quicker than it did, but eventually it did and you had the coming together of the two great figures and the countries and the defeat of fascism that resulted from that but when you look at the state of lack of global cooperation

today in the world, how do you get the hope from history there? how do you find two leaders that are going to come together on some of the things we've been speaking about this morning, whether it's climate change, the spread of vaccines around the world and rally the world around them. it's hard to see. >> it was hard to see. but it was harder then. i thank you on on behalf of our nation for your native nation's stand against fascism. but winston churchill stool alone from the 10th of may, 1940. until the 11th or 12th of december, 1941. he was willing to die on the streets of london if the nazi's got there, but franklin roosevelt wasn't. something like 80% of the country when world war ii started. when great britain declares war and goes to war over poland in the fall of 1939, something like

80% of the united states didn't want to sell guns to anybody. and it slowly drops down over almost two years. it's agonizeingly long. and i would say that that question is -- was much more aptly put in 1939, 1940 and 1941, than it is today. at least now we have actually proven that we have the capacity to project force for democratic values. you know, churchill said, no lover ever studied the whims of his mistress as i did franklin roosevelt. he was desperate to get fdr, he was an elusive man. he said i'm a jung ler, i never let my left hand know what my right hand was doing. that was true, his wife didn't know what he was doing, winston churchill didn't know, and

america didn't know. in 1940 he said no americans will go and die in any foreign war. in october of 1940, wendle willky says he just beat me by saying that. fdr i don't think meant it. but he had to -- he was a politician, he had to get the votes. my point is these are fallen, frail and fallible characters. one thing i've always been interested about, winston and churchill, here are these genuine icons, but if you go back and you were with them in those moments, guess what, they're incomplete politicians. they have to worry about the prejudices and passions of their people. and as -- i think it was neville chamberlan said you can count on the americans to do the right thing after they tried

everything else. and we certainly test that every time. >> annette gordon reed, i don't know if you want to comment on what jon meacham just said, but i wanted to ask you about the texas democrats that headed to washington, now some of them have gotten covid, but their demonstration against voting laws that they find too restrictive and how you think this will play out and what their role in history might be? >> first, what jon was saying, i think you have to have the right moment. obviously churchill saw something, but before you can ask the nation to commit their young men at that time to war, to fight and die overseas, it has to be a moment. they have to understand why it pertains to them. and it's easier -- i think it's easier for us in hindsight and look back and sort of draw a line from one event to the next and say why didn't you see this was coming. but it has to be the right

moment. that's what i was thinking of when he was speaking about this. the texas democrats, i don't know how it's going to work out. this is one of them said an alamo moment, this is their stand, they're going to try to do whatever they can to make it known, because nay don't have the power to force this, but make sure they don't go down without a fight and try to support voting rights however they can. i don't know what's going to happen. i'm a historian, i look at the past, my thinking will be that it will take, again, a moment, as i said before, when people realize that democracy is in peril, and that this should not be a partisan issue at all. the voting rights act was a nonpartisan issue, bipartisan issue for the longest amount of time and we should go back to that moment when we understand the importance of voting for every american who is eligible to vote.

>> all right. annette gordon reed, and jon meacham thank you. you can listen to season 2 of "hope through history" whenever you get podcasts. coming up, a chemical leek at a texas amusement park sends dozens of people to the hospital. plus, for 19 years veteran journalist vicky ward has been working to uncover what or who was behind jeffrey epstein's wealth and influence and criminality. she joins us with a look at her explosive new investigative series. "morning joe" is coming right back. ries "morning joe" is coming right back

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next month marks two years since the death of convicted sex offender jeffrey epstein inside a new york city jail. his then girlfriend and alleged

accomplice, ghislaine maxwell remains in jail awaiting a possible trial later this year on sex trafficking charges. while few details are known about epstein and those around him. a new podcast is shedding light with never released transcripts of conversations he had nearly 20 years ago. >> we only very resently discovered as it seems as though jeffrey was donating to bill clinton in the first year of his presidency in 1993. but in 2002 we didn't know any of this. so i just couldn't answer the question, why did people of importance think so highly of jeffrey epstein. and yet, you know, there were little clues. one person did tell me there was plenty of dirt to be had but basically these rich, powerful men, and they are for the most part men, would never talk. this person told me there was

far too much self-interest at stake. >> joining us now author and journalist vicky ward. she's the host of that new podcast chasing ghislaine. the culmination of her 19 year investigative undertaking as she wrote her 2003 "vanity fair" profile. what happened with that profile, vicky? >> so, what happened with the profile was that jeffrey epstein went onepstein went on a charm offensive with me trying to sell his version of events. he wanted the world to think he was an amazing money manager for billionaires only. he threatened me and we have 450 pages of transcripts of those

conversations. i ended up talking to him nearly daily for two or three months. and when that didn't work he went around me to my boss at the time with the result being that allegations by two sisters were cut out. and there is a scene in the podcast when we're working with the fact checkers close the piece out and she says my goodness, guess who just appeared in the office. jeffrey epstein. that was most unusual to say the least. >> so i know there is a lot we want to hear about in terms of getting folks to listen to this podcast which i think is incredibly important. anyone that cares about the women. many, many young girls abused by

this man and with the help of ghislane maxwell. i'm curious about the men that worked with him. there was illusions to certain well known powerful men but no one has ever been able to make the true connection. why do you think that is? what do you know that might help? right, the men is why we're still talking about jeffrey epstein. bill gates, donald trump, leslie wexner, on and on. the men is why i wanted to make

a podcast. maxwell, i knew before i started writing about epstein, i didn't realize they were together, but it is a shadowy world to the men. and i think what is important and what i have reported based likely on all of these pages of what he told me in 2002 is is that it wasn't just about sex or women. it is much more to the story. much more to jeffrey epstein and his world of invisible men then people think. he was also a masterful con artist. he was an embezzler.

he knew how to move money around off shore. he was, on the record in this podcast, part of an intelligence network he was also a math teacher. so what i really set out to try to do is answer who is hi really, why was he protected, and why were these men drawn into his web. the example of bill gates, for example, i spend time on how someone like jeffrey epstein, once he was already a known sex offender, how he could get to bill gates. the answer, i think, is surprising and that's why people need to listen. >> vicky elise jordan here.

you spent nearly two decades following the story. what was your relationship like in the years that followed that profile with jeffrey epstein and ghislane maxwell. what was it like to report on it for so many years. >> i'm glad you asked me that. jeffrey epstein threatened me and my unborn children. i was pregnant with twins when i was dealing with him. and he threatened not only to put a curse on them if he didn't like the article that i was going to write, he also wanted to know where i was giving birth and what doctor were going to deliver. so when i did end up giving

birth two months prematurely, my children were severely underweight and i was truly terrified that he would come for them. and i never waned to see him ever again. i had put guards on my kids and i barely did ever see him. i think once or twice i ran into him somewhere and they were not pleasant. he was always trying to play chess with me. and i tried to avoid him. he is someone with whom i have really evil connotations in my mind. my children went through severe health problems after that and i

always thought of jeffrey epstein. i also tried to avoid chislaine maxwell. i put the allegations of the pharmacists to her. but unlike jeffrey epstein, she's part of the british ex-pat group in new england. at some point several years later i did run into her and what would have been a really terrible encounter was made surprisingly had a man with her,

and he seemed in a different world from jeffrey epstein. they seemed to be living together. she talked about how they were based on the west coast. she was trying to save the ocean using a submarine attached to his yacht. that is the total of our relationship. >> the new podcast is chasing ghislaine. and tomorrow we will be joined by julie brown to talk about her book "perversion of justice: the jeffrey epstein story."

and a new poll shows that americans don't seem to be worried about the delta variant. and we'll take a look at how the coronavirus is playing out in missouri. in some hospitals things are growing worse now than they were in last year's peak of the pandemic. k of the pandemic 's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health. versus 16 grams in ensure high protein. boost® high protein also has key nutrients for immune support. boost® high protein.

this is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated. unvaccinated people are at risk and communities that are fully vaccinated are generally fairing well. >> so why is there so much vaccine hesitancy? perhaps because some people are listening to their e whacky uncle on social media. it's one of the reasons that president biden is lashing out at facebook. we'll get to the criticism of the tech giant among this unrelenting pandemic and the variants spreading through the country. for some communities in america this year will actual i will be worse than 2020. is that possible? coronavirus is not the only big

if finish, there is also an attempt to whitewash the january 6th insurrection. as rioters attacked the capital, good morning and welcome to morning joe. we have white house reporter jonathan lemeir. and elise jordan here this morning. in the united states covid cases are on the rise again. trifen up in increases in places in low vaccination rates and now the former surgeon general is saying everyone should be asked to mask up again indoors. cathy park explains. >> no signs of covid backing

down. in los angeles county, a 700% increase in positive cases in just the last month as masks go back on indoors. one lawmaker saying that they should saying max it and mask it in areas with rising cases. the current surgeon general girled their decision about masks. across america cases are rising in all 50 states, some hit harder than others. health care workers point to a deadly trend. >> the death count is extremely high. 99.2% for the individuals that are unvaccinated. >> dr. cam paterson says his

hospital is full and they're running out of caregivers. prime minister boris johnson is in quarantine after being exposed. >> this comes just hours before the u.k. lifts it's remaining restrictions duped freedom day meaning no more mask mandates and capacity limits on nightclubs and sporing events. >> the groups most vulnerable to the delta variants are also the groups leasted concerned about it. 48% of unvaccinated people said they're not concerned about the variant. which is 24 points fewer than the percentage of fully vaccinated americans who say

they have concerned. i'm concerned. i'm vaccinated. and this is why the unvaccinated should be concerned. here is former fda commissioner dr. scott gottlieb on the risk of the delta variant to unvaccinated americans. this variant is so contagious that it will infect the majority of people. and for most people that get this delta variant, it's going to be the most serious virus they get in their lifetime. a "new york times" analysis found that while infections rose in half of the nation's counties last week those with low vaccination rates were far more likely to see bigger jumps. among the 25 counties with the sharpest increase in cases, all but one had vaccinated under 40% of residents and 16 had vaccinated under 30%.

arkansas is one state with one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country. and where the delta variant is poised to do significant damage. the "new york times" reports from the baxter regional medical center where fewer than one-third of residents are vaccinated and fewer people are protected in surrounding counties that the hospital serves it found that the hospital averaged only one or two covid patients per day. 22 of the units 32 beds were filled with coronavirus patients. in a single week the number of patients jumped by one-third. more than a third of patients are in intensive care. the retired national guard

colonel says we tried everything that we can think of. for one in three residents i don't think there is a thing in the world we could do to get them vaccinated. he added that door knocking would probably do more harm than good given residents suspicions of federal intentions. joining us now staff writer ed young. his new reporting is on what the delta variant is doing to people. even now the country's

hospitalizations are 1/7th as high as they were in mid january. but national optimism glosses over reality. for many communities this year will be worse than last. springfield's health care workers are experiencing the same ordeals they left behind. we have seen it before. . i can't even imagine, many died, but those that main it there this, to be going back to this, what did you find about missouri? >> it is really crushing their moral.

they thought they put the horrors of covid behind them. and they were doing catch up work and working incredibly hard. and now they're being pummelled by this surge that is at a time when so much of the country seems to have left the country behind. and they're making it harder to do the daily life saving work that we all commend on them to do. >> and what are you finding which is why people are not getting vaccinated? >> it there is a lot of

mistrust. it has become so heavily criticized that people made up their minds about the pandemic and the vak seeks -- vaccines must only affect the younger people, and sadly a lot of the hospitals are filling with younger people, people in their 30s and 40s, and those people are much sicker than they were this time last year. >> so i'm hearing that is the reporting is reflecting what i have been reading across the country. there is a rise in covid patients in hospitals. they are younger and sicker. but you talked about this being so politicized and that is leading to some to not get the vaccine. what is politicized about

science? science is facts. this has been around for a year. people have seen the death toll. this it is massive, and science is approving by actual results being seen across merng that the vaccine works. i don't understand what is happening in the minds of the unvaccinated that the concept of science is politicized in their minds? >> yeah, so i agree with you that the vaccines have proven their effectiveness not only in the initial clinical trials but also in practice. they work incredibly well not only against the original virus, but against the delta variant as well. i think that people make decisions not only based on the evidence around them, but also on what they're hearing from their own communities and the people around them, and sadly i think that issues about the vaccines and the pandemic have

been completely embroiled in these political identities that people are looking around their communities and how they're making decisions. and that is swaying what they're doing in response to the vaccines. unless we can sort of breakthrough that, unless we can establish trust with people who are distrusting, the government, the medical system, science as a whole, we are going to not make progress. and you know i think people that we spoke to, they are trying very hard. they're making slow progress in establishing that trust with resistant communities. but trust is very slow to build and delta moves very, very quickly. >> still ahead, more on the impact of the covid crisis from tokyo to texas. several lonestar politics

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more news around coronavirus this afternoon. more texas determines have tested positive since coming to washington last week. they flaed to dc in an attempt to block republicans from passing restrictive voting laws. all five are set to have been fully vaccinated. the text house democratic caucus say the five are feeling good with mild or no symptoms. jonathan, this is my next point we're going to be talking to experts throughout the week about this but the delta variant and the vaccinated are being impacted by the new variant and those unvaccinated allowing this

virus to really fest ter through the country. people who have been responsible and gotten their vaccines are now being stricken. >> that is right and we see first in this texas case we have seen a number of republicans seizing on this and suggesting and blaming them. they were on a flight from texas, they weren't wearing masks, and it may hinder their ability to have meetings while in dc. we know they met with vice president harris. her officer said she is fine. she did not reach a at least hold where she has to quarantine. and it may get more complicated but to your bigger point there is no question here that we're seeing the delta variant is scary stuff. and they're being mindful and they're trying to get urgency for those that have not gotten

it, to get them jabbed. the fact that we're seeing mask mandated reinstated in places like los angeles. they have higher rates of vaccinations but that could change too because we're seeing some name have done the right thing. and yes they seem to be mild cases, but they would have the ability, some ability, to spread the virus. and public health officials greatest warning and fear is not just what the variants could do right now but the longer it is able to stay out there the more variants that could emerge and could perhaps get around it. >> and we're going to end up going back to masking and that will be a huge political issue.

people will be fighting in wal-marts about whether or not they have to wear their masks. but we're going to have to go back to masking and the reason is because of the unvaccinated. because they're allowing the variants into the country and they're getting the vaccinated people sick. and the only way to keep it from passing person to person if you're not not going to get the vaccine is to wear a mask. let's turn to the impact on the olympics in a blow to the u.s. delegation. rising tennis start coco gauff has tested positive for the coronavirus and will not make her tokyo debut. molly hunter has more. >> coco gauff announced she tested positive for covid-19. i'm so disappointed to share the

news. it has always been a dream of mine. i want to wish team usa best of luck and a save games. it is unclear if she was vaccinated before traveling to europe or where she tested positive. in tokyo with less than a week before the opening ceremony the case numbers are rising. >> there is no such thing as zero risk. at the same time the mingles and crossing of population is inkredsably limited and we can ensure that transmission between the various groups is almost impossible. 55 people under their jurisdiction have tested positive for covid including residents, media, and the games

personnel on saturday. >> the screening program since the first of july delivered more than 30,000 results. so that is how diligent we are. we will continue to do so. >> dozens of people following strict protocol now under quarantine. athletes hoping they don't have to miss their big event. >> this just in, speaking of, a female gymnast from the united states has tested positive for coronavirus. the japanese city hosting the athlete at a pre-tournament camp confirmed the news of the infection this morning but did not release her name. coming up, president biden is clearly frustrated with the slowing pace of vaccinations. why he is pointing the finger at

facebook and how that company is hitting back. morning joe is back in a moment. . (upbeat pop music in background throughout)

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the white house is taking on facebook. the social media giant pushed back against the assertion that experience theories found on the website are fuelling resistance to the vaccine. president biden making his views apparent in striking comments on friday. >> what is your message to companies like facebook. >> they're killing people. the only pandemic we have is in the people unvaccinated. facebook slammed the position writing at a time when covid-19 cases are rising in america, the biden administration has chosen

to blame a handfull of american social media companies. the company goes on to say that the data shows 85% of facebook users in the u.s. have been or want to be vaccinated against covid-19. facebook is not the reason that this goal was missed. you know what? facebook is part of the reason, and facebook is a large reason why trump's lies festered across the country so that statement is rather interesting. let's bring in dillon byers. what is facebook doing with that response, dillon? because the lies fester on facebook. you can find them every day. you can find people that go to facebook to get their investigation. they think it is news. that is the truth.

and donald trump used facebook and twitter many times until he was banned from twitter. how do we reconcile what facebook's position is and most, including the president of the united states, and those that study this believe and think right now it is a platform that spreads disinformation. >> well, look. i think on one hand you're right. you can find almost anything on facebook. i think what was disappointing here is that for a long time facebook was actually commended for it's response to the covid pandemic. and then to vaccine information in light of the fact that it was able to draw clearer lines around fact and fiction than it usually is. as your previous guest from the atlantic said this has been

quite political. there is claims they can take down rather quickly. that they are plants micro chips in people, that they change dna, but they're running up against the thing that facebook always runs up against which is this issue of how do you balance this and not to infringe on speech? and to not open up a pandora's box by which you tell people what they can or can't say. and when you ask what is facebook going with this response, they saw from the white house first from the press secretary and then from the surgeon general and then from the president himself a particularly aggressive effort to go after them and in their view to blame them for the administration's failure to hit that goal for vaccines. and they had a decision. they could be what they thought

was the scapegoat for that or they could i did not to take it laying down or they could say look, yes we are doing our best to combat misinformation, but part of the reason people were going out to get vaccinated, knowing where they should get vaccinated, was because of us and social media platforms. i think what is sad here is that you have, with the biden administration you had a chance to hit the reset button between the white house and silicon valley. and now they have taken things to death con level one in terms of going after one another and that, i'm not totally sure how productive that is for either side. i'm not sure it is productive for the white house and the biden administration to be having a conversation about whether or not they're pointing fingers and passing the buck because they missed their

vaccination goals. >> i want to pick up on that threat that you just put out there. this idea, that was a pretty powerful off of the cuff statement from the president on friday and we just read facebook's statement in which they're happy to hit back. where do we go from here? in terms of washington and silicon valley. could we start hearing about this? what measures do we see with the free speech backdrop to this. >> i had conversations with folks at facebook and the white house over the weekend and i will say both sides are being pretty tight lipped about what the state of those back channel conversations are. i don't see it going to legislation or anything like that and largely because of what you talked about. nobody really wants the government to tell private

companies what people are and are not allowed to say on their platform. i think it runs pretty counter to people's free speech. i think there are a lot of people particularly among democrat that's are frustrated with the way that facebook is handling speech. there is many people on the right that wish that facebook would do significantly less. i think what will happen is they will have to reach a way to work constructively and with the conversations, they were happening privately. trying to find ways to work together to basically get the job done. >> a water park in texas, it is

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a series of shootings left one person dead, a man in an suv approached an ambulance just before 4:00 p.m. and reportedly open fired striking the driver in the head and hitting the passenger in the arm and the chest.

officials say he fled and rammed into an approaching police vehicle. the president reportedly open fired again and they turned and struck the suspect. one emt is in critical condition and one of the bystanders did not survive. officials say the suspect is also in critical condition. and gun violence, and outside of shots were fired during the game. kelly o'donnell has more on the incident. >> fans reerned, but anxiety persisted. gunfire could be heard.

players and fans scrambled. >> this is very bizarre. >> the panic began in right field. a lot of fans in the concourse started running from center field to right field in the concourse. >> i didn't know what it was and a lot of people started running. >> the gunfire happened outside of the ballpark. shots were exchanged between two wars. three people were wounded including a woman passing by. it is part of a national spike in violence. friday a drive by shooting left this 6-year-old girl dead. her mother and four others dead. >> now, that won't happen.

cities reporting more gun violence. atlanta homicides up more than 27%. philadelphia up 31% with 29d 9 murders up. the federal government can do more to crack down on leased gun dealers. >> we'll make sure you can't sell death and mayhem on our streets. it's a outrage. >> kelly o'donnell reporting for us. we're also following a hazmat incident that happened at six flags after a chemical spill. >> a chemical gas made dozens sick. some struggling to breathe.

>> we have 29d injuries or affected people. 31 people were transported to near by hospitals. >> i just started coughing and my eyes swelled up. >> i thought it was a terrorist attack. it felt like we got gassed. >> it was released near the kiddy pool because of the mix of two chemicals that created chlorine gas. >> authorities do not expect any foul play, but they're still looking for the cause. six flags remains closed while an investigation is under way saying we will reopen when we're

confidence that we're safe to do so. >> have systems in place where the minute there is something wrong the system can record that. dangerous chemicals also happened in 2015, 2017, and 2014. but here this weekend, a major scare. >> what started as a fun family day has now turned into a nightmare for many families. >> and a warning for others at water parks this summer. >> thank you, vaughn for that report. some iowa republicans have signalled they moved on from donald trump's presidency. around 1200 evangelicals gathered for the family leadership summit. there was praise for trump and a few attendees said they would continue to support him as he continues to make baseless

claims. but none told the globe they hoped the former president would run again. from one politician with possible waning influence to another. president biden's chief of staff, they profile clain. what is the clain way. what are you learning about how he is running this white house? >> he is essentially a mico -- microcausim. he is really the chief ork

traitor and it is really compared to what we had in the last go round with president trump which is a procession of marginalized figures. he has been with joe biden for 35 years. he is not the first among the senior staff, but he is right up there and essentially at the nerve center for how this he is really the key to understanding with the biden administration is doing day to day, and how it operates, which is a lot more functional than it was in the last one. >> explain what it was that it shows us, the way that he conducts his work. keeping in mind that in the last, the former guys, the former administration there was

several cheeps of staff and ron seems to have a steady hand. >> yeah, i think it will last a little while like the last one. ron klain understands joe biden, he has been around for a long time. they have anticipated what the others need. how arting will play with the other, so he is certainly -- he is not kpangtly a standard for the president, but he is an alter ego for inside of the west wing and on the hill, so that is the first part. the second part is just as a manager he keeps the trains running on time rapidly and

predictably. and he is someone who has essentially been a heart be beat away from the job. so he has been very close to the job. so again, it is really a throw back or scale back to what we used to see in a job like this when the staff is essentially a manager that lead the white house and also spoke for the president. >> i really enjoyed the profile. i think that he is a steady hand, but i thought the republicans saying that he is saying he is the prime minister because that is what people said about jared kushner. what did republicans say to you on the background about ron clain? and is it really his competent

that is a threat? >> it is kind of an old threat where people want to put this unelected power center into play here. essentially republicans have not had any success going after joe biden. i think he is really stuck. and this plays to the idea that president biden is not really in control of his own white house. that he is not really in control of what is going on. that this country is being lead by the man behind the curtain. so it is somewhat of an old trick to bestow great, all knowing powers. but i don't think republicans believe it and i think that people that you talk to know that he is a man that you can

call and it is something that i think the prime minister is like a stand in for someone they can't get the president on. >> thank you so much. the new piece is online now. and up next, an israeli cyber security company is back in the spotlight after word that they are spying o activity activists and journalists. the new yorkers will join us with that new reporting. keep it right here on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ oh, son of a poppyseed! ah, there's no place like panera. enjoy the cool, refreshing strawberry poppyseed salad.

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the reports linked nso group to a leaked list of more than 50,000 cell phone numbers from more than 50 countries that is said to have appeared to oppose surveillance targets for nso clients. in addition to stealing hard drive data, the software reportedly allows users to pinpoint a target's location through the phone camera, and even record conversations made on or near that phone. that is so scary. nso has denied the allegations, in a statement said in part it sells its technology to law enforcement intelligence agencies of vetted governments for the sole purpose of saving lives through preventing crime and terror acts. how possible is that. >> this company nso has been under scrutiny before. two weeks ago released a report they said was a transparency

report to show they were doing the right things to protect people's privacy and internationalists said the report was a sales brochure. now we have a story, i guess we know, mika, that big tech companies are listening in, technology is being used by rogue actors or governments to listen in on people. i think it is the scale of this. 200 journalists in 21 different countries who have had their phones being monitored. that's a scary thought when it comes to freedom of access to information. now to what's happening in russia, joining us, staff writer at the new yorker. who has a new piece in the latest issue of the magazine about activist sobel, the 33-year-old politician facing charges from the russian government for her work with opposition leader alexei navalny

and his anti-corruption foundation. the piece entitled hope against hope. and writes in part navalny has often spoken to his supporters about overcoming fear, but sobol doesn't think that he actually feels any fear. she doesn't either. i am by nature a fanatic. you can't scare a fanatic. the only threat is disillusionment. my faith is justice and i cannot become dirs illusioned in the face of justice. let's start with the status of alexei navalny. where is he, how is he doing, what do we know? >> you've seen navalny, the russian opposition leader arguably the only leader of any viable opposition has been in jail since january. in fact, he has been under

arrest for six months today. his crime is failing to check in with his parole officer while he was recovering from poisoning with the nerve agent, novichok. the open source investigative organization bell encat traced to russian secret police. >> now we look at this person, this woman you are profiling, lyubov sobol, reading her story about what happened to her husband, and what is the role she plays in the opposition movement to vladimir putin. >> at this point sobol she's

neither in exile nor under arrest. she is not exactly free. she's under curfew. spent a couple months under house arrest earlier this year. currently is on trial for os stenably violating pandemic restrictions by encouraging people to attend a mass gathering. it was a street protest against navalny's arrest. she runs her almost daily youtube show called what happened from her house. she is not allowed to leave her house between 8:00 in the evening and 6:00 in the morning, also not allowed to use officially the telephone or the internet. under the restrictions, she continues to be the most public face of what remains of the russian opposition. >> and she has hope for russia, what is it?

>> she has, this is what the piece is really about, is trying to understand the nature of the hope and what allowed this woman to continue going on after, yes, you asked about her husband, which is an important part of the story, sobol like the rest of navalny's organization has been involved in investigations into corruption in putin's closest circle, and her particular subject for many years now is a man known as putin's cook. he is a former chef, former restauranteur, has become one of the wealthiest. some remember his name when robert mueller handed down indictments in electoral

interference. he is said to own the profile behind a lot of election interference. when they investigated him and released the first large report on his wealth and his ascent to power, a couple weeks later her husband was mysteriously attacked in front of their building. he was injected with something. still don't know what. collapsed and was convulsing on the ground and had to be taken to hospital. so her husband who is an anthropologist is now living abroad. sobol continues to insist on living in russia because the nature of her politics, the heart of her politics is that she insists radical normalcy. >> all right. thank you so much. we'll be reading your piece in the new issue of "the new yorker." much like putin's russia, belarus has its own