decades. that's all for us, thank you for watching. "morning joe" starts right now. these folks are choosing horrible lifestyle of self-inflicted pain. >> it's very real, the hospital shortage. it's absolutely real. what we agree on is that covid is real. >> these folks back there have lost -- you've lost your minds. you are the ultimate knuckle heads and because of what you are saying and standing for, people are losing their life. >> i had hoped that a state mask requirement in schools wouldn't be necessary. but it is. >> why don't you do your job, why don't you get this border secure and until you do that, i don't want to hear a blip about covid from you. >> it's like a doctor saying why don't you work on your backswing

and i will do the scans and see whether you have cancer or not. i don't get that. but anyway, of those five governors, three republicans, but only ron desantis doesn't want to talk about covid. he says work on your backswing before i work on anything. no. he's talking about the border as if you can't do two things at once. of course, that strategy didn't work too well for donald trump and it's not going to work too well also for parents and children and teachers in part of ron's state that are experiencing extraordinarily high levels of covid. i'm a parent and i certainly hope that my kids and kids in their classes are going to be able to wear masks. if that is, in fact, what mandate the teachers and the

students, the local school board, local school board, imagine that, decisions being made on the local level, imagine that, decisions being made by parents, teachers, principals and students, imagine that. why that almost sounds like a conservative concept. but ron, he says no. the power of the state, socialism rules, we're going to decide everything from 1,000 miles away. it's no more conservative, actually, than good old ron, socialist ron saying, hey, if you were a business, you have no control over how you keep your business safe. i will ban you from taking safety precautions that you think will keep people inside your business safe and that you think will help your bottom line. big republican government, i guess so. but another governor is clinging to his political life denying

accusations against him while questioning the legitimacy of the investigation that he called for. can that trump-like strategy work for andrew cuomo and all the people said, no. good morning, welcome to "morning joe," it is thursday, august 5th. mika has the morning off, willie, of course because you know when mika has the morning off, she's in the south of france, we usually don't mind that, i don't know how she gets there as quickly as she does and then she comes right back. she has a reason to be in the south of france this morning celebrating, i suppose. not that any of my relatives have been named ambassadors to important countries, but mark brzezinski, former ambassador to sweden, was nominated by joe biden to be u.s. ambassador to poland. and you know, willy, they have a

rich history obviously dr. brzezinski from poland, good friends, ski partners growing up with pope john paul ii before he was pope john paul ii, there's mark sporting plaid. we need to go back to the plaid picture i think that's what willie and i will be most focused on. mark sporting plaid and mika smiling and the pope giving her those important words, willie, be kind to your second husband. but a big day for -- a big day for the brzezinski family. and really, a great day for poland, because, you know, the brzezinskis love poland and love the polish people and had great relationship with pope john paul ii. there's mrs. brzezinski, who sat

next to pope john paul ii and that was a mistake for him, she began immediately lecturing him on women in the church and things such as that. and -- but it was -- but again, very good -- great news for the family. but again, it's -- it's sort of moments like this sort of show me the disconnect between mika's upbringing and mine where mika's father skied with a pope, and, you know, i think i saw archie manning once outside of an ihop in mississippi in 1973. >> that might be bigger to see archie manning in the south. that jumped out at me too that dr. brzezinski was ski partners with pope john paul.

but that's amazing news for the family, and poland. dr. brzezinski born in warsaw, the family is rooted in that country. congratulations to mark, that's great news. >> also good news, men's basketball in the olympics, starting to do well out there. >> team usa won in its semifinal game, defeating australia 97-78 behind kevin durant, the star of the olympics and so many olympics here. they were down by 15, they're making a habit of this, get behind early by double digits and then wake up and start playing. and they won this going away. they advance to the gold medal game where they play either france, who defeated them in the first game of the olympics, that was their wakeup call or slovenia, a team that is led by

luka doncic, the nba star. that's the difference between nowadays and back in the dream team days. they're playing teams full of nba stars. but team usa in the gold medal game waiting to see if it's france or slovenia they meet. >> turning to the news now with delta variant cases surging in the country, dr. anthony fauci is warning a more deadly strain could be possible. dr. fauci said the virus is being given ample time to morph into a more dangerous variant due to continued spread in unvaccinated areas. dr. fauci saying, quote, if another one comes along that has an equally high capability of transmitting but also is much more severe then we could really be in trouble. he also warned that covid cases are rising in a, quote, steep fashion across the country and may double in the coming weeks to 200,000 a day. in florida "the washington post"

reports some of the state's largest school districts announced they will keep or issue new mask mandates due to the latest outbreak challenging the state. that challenges the governor's order that threatens to remove funds if they put in mask mandates. broward county public schools, the second largest district in florida, the sixth largest in the country announced yesterday it will keep its mask mandate and await further guidance before rendering a decision for mask mandates on the upcoming school year. meanwhile, ron desantis responded to joe biden's criticism of him. >> joe biden has taken to himself to try to single out

florida over covid. what is his big solution? what is he so upset about florida? his solution is he wants to have the government force kindergarteners to wear masks in school. he thinks that should be a decision for the government. i can tell you, in florida, the parents are going to be the ones in charge of that decision. so why don't you do your job, why don't you get this border secure, and until you do that, i don't want to hear a blip about covid from you. >> i mean, was he -- who was he talking to? cletus the slack-jawed local. who was fooled by that. i'm going to let -- no no. i'm a parent in florida, i have kids going to school in florida, i've got kids that parents in my school and at my kids' school, they're very concerned about

what's going on here. and so, you're saying that there can be no mandates? there can be no mask mandates? that schools can't determine that, counties can't determine that? willie, there's 67 counties in the state of florida. what's happening in walton county is far different than what's happening in broward county. what's happening on the east coast of florida is so different than what's happening in northwest florida. you can't have a one-size fits all approach. and, of course, you would think that somebody who claims to be a conservative would understand that. but he's taking the decision away from local governments. and from parents talking to those local governments and having an impact in the local school districts and saying we're going to make the decisions from here in tallahassee and we're going to

ban any mask mandates, whatever part of the state you're in. it's ridiculous. and it's the exact opposite of what he's saying. yeah, we got to fix the border. we do. i've been saying that for some time. people have been angry at me because i think we need to be far more aggressive at the border. but somehow linking that to covid in florida and kids being -- you know, local school districts being able to protect children, the border has no more to do with that than me disagreeing with what joe biden is doing in afghanistan, it makes no accepts at all, it's just stupid. i don't know why this guy who's supposed to be smart plays to the lowest common denominator every time and takes victory laps in the spring when it comes to covid, has the last two years, just to get slammed in

the summer. >> and it is an upside down approach for someone who claims to be a small government conservative. the idea that the central government will make these decisions for the entire state when as you say this is very different in all the parts of the huge state of florida. there are hospitals in south florida right now having to postpone elective surgeries, again. this is where we were a year ago because of the rush of covid patients into their emergency rooms and into their icus. this is very real and very serious and we're seeing that in different school districts across the state who are saying you can try to take away our funding, which he has threatened to do, we will withhold state funding for your school, i guess we'll take that chance to protect our students because covid is raging in the states. arkansas republican governor asa hutchinson said he regrets

signing a ban on mask mandates in schools back in april. >> i signed it at the time because our cases were at a very low point. i knew that it would be overridden by the legislature if i didn't sign it. everything is changed now, and yes, in hindsight i wish that had not become law. but it is the law, and the only chance we have is either to amend it or for the courts to say that it has an unconstitutional foundation. >> governor hutchinson now is asking the state legislature to reverse that decision so local school districts can require masks when classes resume in a few weeks. let's bring in white house reporter for associated press jonathan lemire. host of politics nation and president of national action network, reverend al sharpton and cofounder of punch bowl news anna palmer. jonathan lemire governor

desantis and president biden have been in a bit of a back and forth here, governor desantis thinks he's scoring political points in the confrontation with the commander in chief. >> president biden has certainly changed his rhetoric in the last week or two about the pandemic in two different areas. first of all he put it as a pandemic of the unvaccinated now. and he is -- he and the administration officials are really focussing on getting more shots into the arms of people alt this point hesitant or flatout refusing to get the vaccine and they're squarely blamed for the rise in cases across the country. the other target, republican governors, particularly desantis, who have stood in the way of mask mandates, questioned guidelines from the cdc, slow to doll out federal relief funds, including the eviction moratorium which came to a head this week. and that biden has said that they are obstacles to the nation

recovering from this pandemic and continuing its economic bounce back, which would be in danger as the virus cases surge. desantis yesterday, unleashed vitriol at president biden, the white house has not yesterday responded but we'll see the president a number of times today, and i suspect they'll hit back. it'll be a theme that desantis needs to follow the science, listen to local communities and do what the administration has wanted, reopen schools. biden said that's a goal, he wants schools across the country to reopen, reopen safely. and therefore, follow the cdc guidelines, and that means masks. expect the war of words to continue, willie. >> let the local school districts decide what they're going to do. don't have a top-down socialist type of approach, a big government approach, a centralized approach in a state with 15, 16 million people, 18

million people in it. 17 counties -- i'm sorry 67 counties. and again, florida is like five different states. so you have this one governor who, again, is acting like this big government socialist telling small businesses no, you're not allowed to run your small business the way you want to run your small business. if you're in a really hot spot and you feel like you want to require masks for people to come into your family restaurant that's been in your family for three or four decades and you're trying to save that small business and you know the only way to save that business is by doing what you think is best and requiring masks for people doing inside dining, ron desantis won't allow that. it's a ban. he's taking all the power, he's centralizing all the power in tallahassee, florida. does that really make him feel that powerful, to centralize all of that power in tallahassee, florida and not let small

business owners, not let small family restaurant owners, not let people that have had family businesses along beach fronts for 40, 50, 60, 70 years, not let them decide themselves? he's taking all that power? and now he's doing the same thing to school boards. he's doing the same things to parents, for local governments, banning them from putting in a mask mandate in their counties. as if miami-dade county is the same asso -- is the same as ocaloosa county, it's different. i've been reading stupid things on twitter, which isn't new, but people going oh my god, oh my god, they're changing their

minds again about mask mandates. they're changing their mind. this is something that scott gottlieb said months ago. we may have to put mask mandates in in the future. so let's stop mask mandates now, it'll give us more authority later if when we have a chance to reduce the number of mask mandates in the fall when they're required, we'll have more authority. and it reminds me of john maynard kane's quote, when the facts change, i change my mind. what do you do, sir? and yet, these people on these pro-trump sites are shocked, shocked that when the facts change, actually our medical professionals change their mind and also change how they're telling us the way to stay safest. >> well, not only do you change your mind when the facts change, you change your behavior because

the facts change. and i think what we are missing here and being maneuvered and manipulated by people like governor desantis is that we are talking about people's life. we are talking about people's health. so to act like this is some option that government does not have the responsibility to step in to protect people's lives, it's like saying well, government shouldn't tell us that we should wear seat belts, that should be up to parents to decide in a car. or a government shouldn't be able to tell us to wear a seat belt on an airplane. you have the right to do what you want to yourself, you don't have the right to infect other people that may be in your space. so i think this is totally playing to the ignorance of some and trying to score political points at the expense of people's health and people's life. this should be a no-brainer. unfortunately there are those that have developed this kind of

cult politics that everything becomes surreal rather than dealing with facts changing. >> yeah, and, you know, anna, it's interesting on the hill you have republicans like lindsey, mitch mcconnell being responsible, a lot of other republicans being responsible telling people to go out and get the vaccines. they don't understand why people aren't getting the vaccines. lindsey, of course, after getting covid letting everybody know he had covid and was glad that he got vaccinated because his conditions were far more mild than they would have been if he hadn't gotten the covid shot. so you are finding more and more republican leaders stepping out telling people get vaccinated, it's the safe thing to do, the smart thing to do. it's not only good for your health, it's good for the nation's business. >> absolutely. i think when you look at the senate in particular, that sounding, you know, call has been one that senator mitch

mcconnell has been saying for months now. that it is -- vaccines are good, they are worthwhile, they need to be done. i think in the house you have a lot of members on the republican side who won't confirm whether or not they have been vaccinated. and are much more in the line of ron desantis. i think that's more the trump wing of the party and clearly playing to the base. but masks are back in the capitol, reporters are wearing them, members are wearing them. i think lindsey graham getting covid situation has put a fine point on the fact that everybody needs to be safe and people are taking those precautions when it comes to being in the capitol and interacting with members of congress. >> to his credit, senator graham when he announced he contracted covid he said i'm so glad i got the vaccine, it made it so much easier on me and i hope everyone gets it. we are seeing anti-vaxxers show up at events, it happened

yesterday in new jersey when phil murphy was giving a speech. this is how he responded to the heck lers. >> please get vaccinated if you are not vaccinated. please get vaccinated. period. these folks back there have lost their -- you've lost your minds. you are the ultimate knuckleheads and because of what you are saying and standing for, people are losing their life. people are losing their life. you have to know that. look in the mirror. look in the mirror. >> governor phil murphy of new jersey there. in louisiana where a state-wide indoor mask mandate went back into effect yesterday, here was the message in the week -- earlier in the week from democratic governor john bell edwards to those against masking. >> do you give a damn? i hope you do.

i do. i've heard it said often, louisiana is the most pro-life state in the nation. i want to believe that. it ought to mean something. >> let's bring in the president and ceo of ashner health, louisiana's largest nonprofit health system, mr. thomas. thanks for being with us, what is the state of affairs right now in louisiana? yesterday a new state record for single-day hospitalizations, breaking a record that had been set all the way back in january. what does it look like on the ground there in the hospitals that you serve? >> certainly a very challenging situation today. we are in our fourth surge here in louisiana.

we are seeing our cases increase exponentially, in the last month up 700% for the amount of patients we're seeing in the hospital with covid. the pandemic has evolved from being a pandemic of the unvaccinated. 90% of the people we have in our hospitals with covid are unvaccinated. it's a situation where we see exponential growth in those cases. we're up 67% in one week. and it certainly is growing exponentially every single day. >> louisiana has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country. are you seeing any movement as these cases explode in your state as the hospitalizations go up. is that motivating, incentivizing people to take another look at the vaccine there? >> we are seeing some up tick in the past couple of weeks. the louisiana vaccination rate is about 37%. and as you were talking earlier, it is different in different parts of the state.

in new orleans it's in the mid 60s and other parts of the state it's the 20s or 30s. we have seen an up tick at our stations we've done about 500,000 vaccine shots across the state. so we are continuing to see that tick up. but once again, it needs to be faster and we need to see more people using the vaccine. it's proven, we know it works. and it's going to the masking comment, i sent a letter to our governor last week asking him to reinstitute mandatory masking across the state to have some mitigation factor, he did put that into place. we hope that starts slowing cases down. but once again, as this pandemic has evolved, you do have to change your approach. three or four months ago we had very few cases so masking probably wasn't as big of a deal. today with this fourth surge, masking is very important. >> warner, it's jonathan lemire.

this surge you're seeing of hospitalizations. can you tell us about the ages of people you're seeing being admitted? are you seeing a rise in younger people? are these adults? children? what sort of illness do they have and how seriously sick are they? >> great question. if you go back to march of 2020, our average age of patient in the hospital was 69. the second and third surges it was closer to 65. and this fourth surge what we're seeing today the average age is 55. 40% of the patients we see now are 50 years and younger. so we are absolutely seeing this variant impact the younger population. the other reason we see it impacting the younger population is because the vaccine rates in people 65 and 70 years old and older is much, much higher. we're close to 75 to 80% of

folks that are over 65 in louisiana are vaccinated. that's another reason that we're not seeing people older being impacted by the delta variant and being hospitalized. as i said, 90% of the folks hospitalized today have the delta variant. we're in a different situation than we were in the first surge. the other challenge is we're continuing to take care of lots of other patients who need medical care while we're trying to take care of the fourth surge. the first surge we had other medical services shutdown. we had shelter in place, people were at home. so we didn't have as many other medical issues to deal with as we do today when we're in the fourth surge. so we take about 50 transfers a day from other institutions that want to send us patients for a higher level of care. in the past ten days we had to

turn around 300 transfers because we cannot accept them given the level of covid patients we have and given the level and pressure on our staffing. >> mr. thomas, the governor puts the mask mandate out on monday and the attorney general in your state sent out a department wide email showing how to get out of the mandate. saying a mask, for example, of a school can get in the way of commands and responding to god's love as he put it in one of the emails. what is the future of the mask mandate? do you believe there will be a mandate in schools in louisiana, for example? >> i'm not sure how that will be handled and play out. i would say is we know masking works and we have encouraged all of our patients, communities, that they should mask when they're indoors. we do believe schools going back and being in person is

important. and with that, we think masking is important to protect the kids and also to protect parents as well. but going back to the way to protect yourself is to get vaccinated. it's proven, we know it works. 4 billion shots of the vaccine have been given in the world, 360 million in the united states and we need to see more people taking this proven vaccine to protect themselves and to protect others. >> warner thomas, president and ceo of ashner health in louisiana where hospitalizations yesterday set a new record. thank you for being with us. still ahead on "morning joe," the latest developments with new york governor, andrew cuomo, facing new potential criminal charges after the report alleging 11 cases of sexual harassment. land lords mounding a legal challenge to the cdc's latest

eviction moratorium. and the u.s. is seeing a record number of job openings but workers continue to be in short supply. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. watching "" we'll be right back. my nunormal? fewer asthma attacks with nucala. a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala reduces eosinophils, a key cause of severe asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your doctor about nucala. find your nunormal with nucala.

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beautiful shot of new york city, 6:34 a.m. on the east coast. willie, we have a lot of things going on today. we, of course, talked about mark

brzezinski, mika brzezinski, basketball. a lot of stuff going on. also, in our family big day today, rachel campbell's birthday. rachel, of course, has been with us such a long time and for those who ask a question how do you get involved in tv news, well, rachel, of course, willie was our bail bondsman in turkey quite some time ago we thought we were going to have to finish jumping off the cliff, rachel said i got this. best bail bondsman from turkey to tunisia. but she does a lot and we greatly appreciate everything she does. >> she's great. i thought we were in for life. we were in the isolation cells, doors open and we see rachel campbell.

we're grateful for that. happy birthday. yesterday we told you about chantel brown and her win in the ohio congressional primary. brown is a moderate who aligned with president biden, turner a progressive backed by bernie sanders, in the latest in a string of elections this year that have served as a reality check for the left flank of the party. moderate democrats won in new york, virginia, louisiana and now ohio. hakeem jeffries said in an interview with "the new york times" yesterday democratic voters are clearly rejecting candidates from the most strident and ideological flank. the extreme left is obsessed with talking trash on twitter when the majority constitutes main stream at the polls. when president biden and democratic legislatures are delivering millions of good paying jobs the fastest growing

economy in 40 years and a massive child tax cut. jeffries went on to tell the times, the majority of democratic voters recognize that trumpism and the radical right is the real enemy, not us. apparently the extreme left has not figured that out. pretty extraordinary comments from congress hakeem jeffries of new york, a progressive himself but frustrated with the farthest left corners of his party. >> it's a battle next year where republicans hold the advantage, if you look at redistricting, historical trends. reverend al, you're starting to sense really more of an urgency among democrats to start following the guidance that you've been giving on this program for a very long time. and that is, just say no to

latte liberals and get common sense main stream democrats and win elections. >> it is clear that there's a sense of urgency and a sense of you cannot continue to be intimidated by people that are not speaking on on behalf of the people you represent. hakeem jeffries is a progressive. he's a prudent progressive. jim clyburn is a progressive. a prudent progressive. but for people to try to act like the most extreme and offensive and insulting kind of name calling makes them a progressive when they're doing it against people that had to fight to get into the main stream. they act like jim clyburn was born in the main stream. here's a man who went to jail, him and his wife. and you have trust fund babies telling him how to be a fighter. i think that's what we're trying to deal with in terms of the

messages that we're getting in all of these elections. and they come in with these, you know, holier than thousand proposals that no one believes can become law. when i was a young minister, i was mentored by a guy that always told me, don't just give people pie in the sky buy and buy when they die, give them some sound on the ground while they're still around. >> and again, you've been talking about these -- some of these people that are so disconnected that speak to communities but never go to communities. never go where the people live. and you're talking specifically, communities of color, we saw it back in 2020. we saw that it was, in fact, black women, predominantly, but also black men that helped joe biden win south carolina and sweep to the presidency. and we've seen it in one race after another this year. >> and the fact of the matter,

joe, is that a lot of the latte liberals, as i call them, what is it that blacks in south carolina are stupid or no we're voting our issue with the practical. you can't in race after race after race see the majority of black voters, particularly black women, brown voters, vote against a lot of what they're talking about and act like for some reason they don't have enough sense to rise to their intellectual level. maybe they rejected because they had to practically raise families in situations that are disadvantaged and disproportionately not getting the goods and services that other communities are getting. and they rather have practical, prudent, progressive politicians rather than people that want to dream at their expense. >> and jonathan lemire, despite recent setbacks at the polls in

ohio and, of course, in new york city last year, and the presidential race in the democratic primaries, progressives didn't score a win over the past few days and feel like they have a road map that they can employ ahead on other policy fights with the biden administration. >> that's right. that's my reporting today. certainly they have taken a string of defeats in races across the country. but they did have success in washington over the last week. to this point progressives have largely held their fire in terms of the biden administration. even though to many of them, the white house has gone too slowly on things like climate change, voting rights, as it spent more of its energy on this bipartisan infrastructure deal wooing moderate democrats as well as republicans to get these things done. this week we saw representative cori bush and her all-night stake out on the capitol steps for days, as she stayed there

day and night. attracted attention from other liberal lawmakers. and attracted a huge amount of media attention. and others have said they're going to do this to get what they want in the reconciliation bill with a lot of these progressive priorities. anna palmer, let me ask you about that. we know house speaker pelosi played a key role in getting the eviction moratorium extended, she was lobbying the white house. but the progressives flexed their muscles, they claimed a victory. how does that shape the dynamic when we head to the fall and the reconciliation bill is center stage at the capitol? >> it's an important point because so often in our reporting a lot of lawmakers say, the progressive, the squad they don't know what they 'doing. they play this outside game, care about twitter wars but

don't impact the legislation as it's happening on the ground. this was one of those instances where all of a sudden you see them use the outside game, get real results in the capitol. the question i think to your point, can they do this, is there another issue that will motivate them where there's unity, one, and two, where the leadership, speaker pelosi in particular, sees that she has to work with them and will go behind the scenes to excerpt that power, make the phone calls, find a way for the biden administration to get to yes, on a situation that was otherwise not going to be a result that any of the democrats wanted to happen. so tbd on whether or not they can use this again but they certainly when we talked to aoc this week they saw it as a within saying we're going to play hard ball when we have to and we get results. >> with us now let's bring in former treasury official and

"morning joe" economic analyst steve ratner. i asked earlier this week why we would extend the eviction moratorium when we're at record highs for job vacancies, more open jobs available today than any other time in u.s. history. there's a lot of debate over exactly why there are so many job openings. you have the answers. what are they? >> joe you're flattering me this morning. i can't say i have all the answers it's a complicated question and the answers aren't always that clear. let me show you a few charts to help illuminate the situation. we can look at how many people we expect to go to work under these circumstances and the bottom axis going from left to right, jobs opening, is the point you were making if you look to the right and see the big black arrow in the upper right corner, the bottom of that is pointing to the percent of job openings you can see the other dots or periods in the past you can see that job

openings are, as you said, at a record. what you expect with job openings at a record would be one out of every three unemployed people taking a job each month. that's what the dashed line is, for the job openings how many people you expect to take a job. we expect a third we get a quarter. we'll talk about the reasons for that, but that has led to the short fall in jobs, employers increasing wages which is obviously a good thing. and you see in some states offering return-to-work bonuses to get people to try to go back to work. obviously the key question is, why are they not going back to work. if you look at the next chart, which is a morning consult poll that came out recently, you find the reasons are spread out, child care at the top, and then the issue of the extra $300 a week that people are getting in the blue states at the moment, the red states have ended that

program for the most part. health reasons, covid related, which are similar things. now at the bottom, job didn't pay enough, job didn't allow remote work, job not in desired industry. the question is how many of those people are not taking jobs because in a sense enough ui money. the poll also found that 44% of americans that they spoke to were receiving more under unemployment than they received while they were working. and so, the question then is, are people not going because of unemployment insurance? and we have a little bit here, because as i said, the red states have terminated the program the blue states have kept it. what you see on the next chart what's happened as a result of that. job hiring was preceding at a similar pace until the unemployment benefit changes occurred and then you can see that the blue states, at least the ones that did it early where

we have enough data increased their hiring of adults very substantially -- sorry, the red states while the blue states the level of hiring was lower. on the other hand they did hire more teens in the red states and that made up for much of the difference but you can see a fairly clear difference of hiring of adults in the red states faster versus the blue states slower where the unemployment benefits have been term nated in one but not the other. those are a few thoughts as to why this is happening. but as i said, there's no clear one reason, no way to prove it beyond the things i've just shone you. >> i think people have seen this all summer wherever they've been. i have newly a teenage daughter and 12-year-old son, and on vacation offered jobs. we were on vacation so they couldn't stay long enough to work but that's how desperate the situation is in some places. what changes, is it when the

benefits expire that people go out and seek the jobs or some of it, has the economy just changed that much through covid? >> that's a great question, willie. i think we'll see the first part of that happen because the jobless benefits are going to end in the early september and then people will face this question. of course, at the moment you have the overhang of the new wave and we have to see how that works. another factor is that last year people weren't working, they had more income because of the benefits and stimulus checks and spent less so there's $2 trillion of extra savings that people have in their bank accounts that they're at the moment spending, and as that number draws down, that would put another level of impetus on people to go back to work. and hopefully schools are going to reopen, so some of these concerns and problems of child care and so forth will go away.

i think most economists feel it's going to be a gradual process. remember, millions of people have also dropped out of the labor force so they have to decide to come back into it, which is another process in another sense. so i think most economists feel it's going to be a bit of a slow process getting people to come back in, in the meanwhile, wages are rising, which is not a bad thing but we need people to come back to work to get the economy on full footing. >> so many economic questions are dependent on how we handle this waive of covid-19. still ahead here on "morning joe," we will talk to the president of the american federation of teachers about the growing fight over mask mandates in schools. should masks be required? if should vaccines be required for teachers? we'll discuss all of that. plus senators tim kaine and dick durbin join our

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welcome back to "morning joe." live picture of times square, new york governor andrew cuomo is facing a number of new criminal inquiries. he was already facing potential state and federal charges after the attorney general's investigation alleged cuomo sexually harassed 11 women. now the district attorneys in manhattan and west chester county have requested material from that investigation suggesting they may launch their own criminal probes. no criminal charges have been filed against governor cuomo. he maintains his innocence. while governor cuomo may be refusing to leave the mansion for now, he may not have a choice down the road. at least 86 of the 150 members of the new york state assembly have said they would be willing

to remove cuomo from office if he does not resign. that's more than enough members to launch an impeachment trial. speaker karl hasty who would oversee the trial wants the governor to resign. rev, you know andrew cuomo well, governor is not a guy prone to walking away from a fight but does he have a choice here? >> i don't think he's prone to walk away from a fight but i think there's a lot of people calling for his stepping aside. i personally called all of our regions in the state in terms of national action network to get a consensus on where our position is going to be and then later today i'll talk to the state naacp and other agencies in the community, and there are a lot of people calling for us to say he should resign. the sensitivity as civil rights

groups always say, everyone is given due process, a right to defend themselves but i can say that, willie, the overwhelming majority of our chapter leaders there has said that they think we ought to call for him to step aside. there's a lot of respect for the attorney general, leticia james, a lot of step for karl hasty and andrea stuart cousins, all are saying what they're saying. and he has a real hard hill to climb. >> jonathan lemire, i don't know that i've ever seen a politician so completely isolated from members even of his own party. we get so used to republicans defending donald trump no matter what he did, whether he was using his position to try to bribe a foreign leader with defense money to dig up dirt on his political opponent or

pressure his attorney general to arrest his political opponent two weeks before a campaign, i mean, even after 1/6 you have republicans that just -- they're still defending donald trump. here, there are no democratic defenders, it seems, of andrew cuomo. the president of the united states, the speaker of the house, the senate majority leader, his two senate -- his two senators from the state of new york, the assembly leader, andrew cuomo is surrounded. i don't know how this is even remotely survivable for him. >> he's more or less completely alone at this point. within new york state, a lot of the unions that backed him in his runs yesterday pulled their support, say he should step away. some of his political allies in the state who stuck with him through thick and thin, including the first wave of

allegations months ago when the stories first emerged, saying we think he should still be in, he should be mindful of his legacy and he should step aside and leave the office. he's telling people he's not willing to do that, not considering resigning just yet. in the impeachment proceedings, the investigation may only take about a month. then it goes to the process, the inquiry. and this could all come to a head by september or october. he's running out of time. he has in the past shown an ability to weather storms and get through it, that's what he's telling aides, the stories can change and it passes. but he's never been all alone, including from the president of the united states, a previous close ally. we'll come back to this story a bit later. meanwhile, coronavirus cases are on the rise among younger

children and teens, the president of the american academy of pediatrics will be our guest next. our guest next [relaxed summer themed music playing] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ summer is a state of mind, you can visit anytime. savor your summer with lincoln. ♪ ♪ summer is a state of mind, you can visit anytime.

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welcome back to "morning joe," it is 7:00 on the button here on the east coast. it is thursday, august 5th. the ap's jonathan lemire, reverend al sharpton still with us and joined by msnbc contributor and so much more, mike barnicle joining our conversation. as daily infection numbers increase across the united states, the fda may be moving more quickly to give full approval to pfizer's vaccine. national correspondent miguel almaguer has more. >> reporter: instead of sometime this fall, the fda could give

pfizer's vaccine final approval by early next month. nbc news learning federal authorities are moving forward as rapidly as possible as the delta variant proliferates across the nation. it could help more public and private institutions mandate the vaccine and offer a shot of confidence for the 90 million americans eligible but not yet vaccinated. >> moving towards full approval will increase vaccine rates amongst the unvaccinated. >> reporter: while the fda reaffirmed their position on boosters saying americans don't need one for now, the w.h.o. is calling for a moratorium on the extra dose arguing vaccine rich countries should help the rest of the world. amid the push to vaccinate, in los angeles the city council could hear an ordinance that would require residents to have one dose of the vaccine before entering public spaces.

in september new york city will start enforcing similar guide lines but doctors say requiring a single dose won't offer the public much protection. >> it doesn't make sense that new york city would only mandate one dose proof. they should mandate two dose proof and leave it at that so there's clarity and consistency. >> reporter: with dr. fauci affirming that our cases could double by fall there's a growing concern that a new variant could elude vaccines in florida where spiking cases pushed one hospital to turn conference rooms into patient care systems is having a cost. >> it's very difficult to have a family member die and you're not with them. >> reporter: the evolving toll of this pandemic and the price no family should pay. miguel almaguer nbc news. >> scenes similar to the ones we've seen a year ago.

meanwhile, the american board of pediatrics reported more than a million teens and children have being diagnosed with covid-19. >> reporter: as the delta variant packs hospitals, doctors are seeing a new type of patient. >> we're concerned because we're seeing some very sick kids. >> reporter: at children's hospital in new orleans, dr. mark kline said patients under 17 years old make up one in five new cases and are essentially vulnerable since many don't qualify for the vaccine. 16-year-old riley did qualify but her family held off. she's now spent the last three days on oxygen. >> that is the absolute scary part is how fast it happened. >> reporter: we met the family after doctors cleared rilely to go home. >> is it still tough to breathe? >> yes, sir. >> reporter: mom saying what started with a fever soon led to

pneumonia. >> it is hard as a parent to see your child in the hospital, possibly, you know, you don't know what's going to happen next. >> reporter: nationwide youth covid cases are on the rise. the american academy of pediatrics reporting more than 70,000 new infections just last week. >> we can see clearly that children can be severely affected and i hope that will motivate more parents to obtain vaccine. the family now booking their vaccine shots soon. >> seeing what she went through, i'm taking it. >> reporter: that was enough to -- >> that was enough to change my mind. >> reporter: a lesson they hope others listen to. morgan chesky, nbc news new orleans. we're joined by the president of the american academy of pediatrics. dr. beers thank you for being with us this morning. as you watch the piece, the message is for those eligible 12 and up to get the vaccine.

but what about parents of those younger than 12 years old, what do they do with that information? children can contract it although it's less likely and less severe as they get it but what do they do as they approach the school year if their child is younger than 12 and can't get the vaccine. >> thank you for that question. i think we are hearing from parents of our young children that they are worried and not sure what to do. i would say a couple of things. first as was pointed out so beautifully in the story you just ran. if you are an adult or a teen who is eligible for the vaccination, you should absolutely get it because that protects you but it also helps protect the little ones who aren't yet eligible for the vaccine. so that's one important thing. i think the second piece is as a parent of a child younger than 12, continue to do what you're doing. i know it's hard, it's been a long haul but continue with

masking indoors, you know, continue with the good hand washing with all the precautions. and as you point out, young children are less likely to get severely ill but they can get sick and we want to continue being careful and we want to make sure that our youngest kids are healthy and well. >> what are the implications as you look at the spike in cases of children and those under 12 that can't get vaccination for school this fall? there was an anticipation a few weeks ago that everything would return to normal, kids would be in school this fall, teachers would be vaccinated, but as you look at the new numbers the last couple of weeks, both among children and adults what does it tell you about school this fall -- which by the way it's soon, it's not fall, it's summer for some places. >> one of the things that we've learned over the past year is that we can get kids back to

in-person school safely if we're taking good precautions within the school. we updated our guidance around a safe return to in-person school and we talk about a number of things that you can do. first, of course, as i mentioned, if you are eligible, old enough to get the vaccine, then we absolutely recommend that you do. because that helps protect your community, helps decrease the spread of covid in your community. and then i think within the schools there's a number of other things you can put into place, universal masking for everyone in the school building over the age of two, making sure that everyone has good hand washing, social distancing where you can. we know there can be pragmatic and logistical challenges with that. but when you can, keeping distance between kids and kids and teachers. and really, you know, having the grace and patience to work together and having schools and public health and doctors work together to make sure we can get our kids back healthy and safe. >> do you believe, dr. beers,

that teachers should be required to be vaccinated inside schools? would that be a good idea for the safety and health of both teachers and children? >> you know, we recommend everyone who's eligible for the vaccine be vaccinated. it's a safe vaccine, it's an effective vaccine. we've seen -- you pointed out the riseing numbers across the country, those who are getting sick are largely unvaccinated. so we really recommend the vaccine for everyone. and i think that's an important thing for all of us to remember is that we're protecting not just ourselves but our communities and the kids in our communities and protecting all of those around us. >> dr. beers, mike barnicle has a question for you. mike? >> doctor, as you are well aware, this is a global crisis that we're facing, not just a crisis here in the united states. we are fortunate here in the united states that we, as a collective group of people, have

access to safe and effective vaccines to combat the virus and there is perhaps another variant on the horizon, perhaps more dangerous to us, more infectious to the delta variant. so my question to you, i don't know whether you can answer it or not. with the culture where people are used to vaccines from at birth on, what do you think history is going to say about us that we had so many who refused to get a vaccine that could be life saving? >> well, you know, what i hope history is going to say is i hope history is going to look back and say you know what, they had rough times but they pulled it together and they came together and people got vaccinated and made their way through this pandemic. because i do think we can do it. i do think we can work together. i do think that, you know, as people are learning more and having the opportunity to get their questions answered, i am

hopeful that we -- when we look back on this we'll say there were some rough moments but we made it through and we came together an worked together. >> dr. lee beers, thanks so much for bringing your expertise to the show this morning we appreciate it. we'll talk to you soon. joe? with us now from the american federation of teachers randy winegarden. we spoke yesterday and you wanted me to know you remain 1000% behind all schools opening up this fall and said you're going around the country handing out grants doing everything you can to make sure that happens. tell us about it. >> thank you, joe. and thank you for listening. look, in may we said that the vaccine, plus everything else -- but the vaccine had been such a game changer that we felt in may that we needed to say to the

world, back to school, in the fall, full-time, everyone, no exceptions. and, you know, that's where we are. and, in fact, we, as -- you know, as a union, felt what can we do to actually make that real? so we put $5 million out in the field in terms of granteds. we've had 65 grants affecting about 1800 of our locals taking them. it affects, just so you have a sense, about places that have 20 million children. and what they're doing is they're go door knocking. knocking on doors of parents whose kids were not in school at all last year, remote or otherwise. standing up vaccine clinics in st. louis this weekend, standing up with some vaccine clinics. i'm in new mexico today doing some of this back to school work. we are serious about getting our

kids back to school in a safe and welcoming way. >> bill de blasio has been aggressive in new york city with some of the things he's done with some of the vaccine mandates for restaurants and also for city employees, talking about the need to get vaccines or get testing. i know that -- i hear teachers' numbers are getting up there, in the mid to high 80s as far as vaccines. you're not quite there yet with a vaccine mandate for teachers and unions, supporting that, why not? and do you think that's a place you may possibly get to? >> so let me say this as clearly as i can. we're considering all options now, given what has just happened with the delta variant. i mean, it's -- if you look at where we were three weeks ago versus now. the world has changed. our commitment remains the same because kids need to be in school and so that's why we've had -- and you've had me on your

own. we've agreed on things, disagreed on things. but we've always been about how do we help kids get back to school and make it safe? our members, when i do our polling, 90% of our member -- our teacher members have gotten the vaccine. we have helped persuade them, we've stood up clinics. we want to persuade the holdouts. and we -- you know, up until the last few weeks we thought the way to do it is through persuasion, particularly since there was not full authorization of the vaccine. but what we're doing is we're looking at all the alternatives because of this and, in fact, when bill de blasio said vaccine or test our local in new york greed. when joe biden said vaccine or test nationally we agreed. in denver we agreed to the mandate. we are trying to make sure that

people are safe. it's part of the reason -- we love the pediatricians, my sister is one of them, and we agreed to -- obviously we need masks in schools like in florida because kids under 12 are not vaccinated. so our goal is we got to protect the united states. but let's stop scapegoating teachers. they're doing everything they can. i don't know another profession that is as highly backed and they want to be in school with their kids. >> we've talked about -- talking about bill de blasio it sounds like he's where you are right now where he said this is the first step. we started with vaccinations or testing. of course, as you said the new york city teachers have agreed to do that. teachers nationwide have agreed to do that following joe biden's suggestions as well. but this -- as you said, this is a moving crisis, things have changed dramatically over the past three weeks. so we'll follow-up with you in

the next few weeks and see how things have changed. let's talk about masks, you brought it up. it shouldn't be a battle but for some reason people are making it a battle. in fact, a governor or two actually banning masks in all schools which, of course, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. based on all the information you have, all the information you've heard as teachers prepare to go back to teach school this fall, how important is masking for the children in those classrooms? >> again i'm not the scientist, i'm a social studies teacher and a lawyer. we have to listen to the scientist. you had the head of the academy of american pediatrics on. if the science tells us kids under 12 can't get a vaccine but delta is raging and it's

affecting kids but things like mitigation, like wearing a mask, like good ventilation, hand washing and three feet of social distancing which we can do and get our kids back to school, why are we not doing that? it's about the safety. as you know, i'm an asthmatic, i hate wearing these things. i labor in breathing every time i wear these things. but if that's what's going to keep everybody safe, let's do that. teachers don't like teaching in them but if that keeps everybody safe, let's do that. i applaud districts who are so -- even though ron desantis is threatening them in all sorts of ways, threatening to take funding that belongs to kids, that doesn't belong to him, because they have a mask mandate, they're trying to say we're going to keep people safe.

>> good morning, it's willie geist, good to have you with us. let me go back to the vaccine mandate, the question whether teachers should be required to have vaccines. you can understand frustration from parents when last year it was we don't want to go back to the classroom until it's safe then we get this miracle vaccine that makes it safe, all but 100% protected from serious illness and death so if you can in clear terms explain the resistance for a vaccine mandate for teachers that would make the classrooms safe. >> so willie, i -- look, i'm 100% into vaccines. i think they're important. i think this one is safe and effective. you know, virtually every one of my members are, i should say nine out of ten of them are, you can see it virtually around all unions. we understand this. the problem is we are trying to create trust throughout america

in terms of a safe and welcoming environment. our resistance has been to just mandating particularly when you have this overwhelming number who have said yes and taken the shots and know it's important, is that that then becomes -- just like with masks, that then has become the argument over the mandate as opposed to how do we do everything we can to keep things safe and welcoming and focus on our kids? the people that are resisting, and there was a good kaiser study out in the last few days. the people that are resisting, some of it is idealogical, and some of it is that they really don't believe that the vaccines are safe. and i think full authorization, as one of the doctors on your show earlier said, i think that's going to open some doors. as i said, we're considering all

alternatives, including, you know, looking at vaccine mandates, but at the end of the day, i want to lift up the fact that 90%, nine out of ten teachers, have already been vaccinated and they know it's safe and effective. >> so if the fda approves this as we heard reports it may in the next couple of weeks, you say that may open the door to a willingness to accept a vaccine mandate for teachers? >> we are looking at that right now, and we are looking at other alternatives as well. but as you heard me say, i think the variant has really shaken a lot of people up. you know, because of its rage amongst the unvaccinated. and we have an obligation to protect people in america and that's -- and we have an obligation as teachers to teach people in america. but the most effective way of helping in this instance on vaccines is to convince people

and so -- but yes, we are looking at all alternatives right now. and i think that's going to be one of the game changers. >> randy, i know your job is to represent the interest and the health of the teachers. how do you weigh that against what we've seen amongst kids where you have millions falling off the grid, losing contact with their school, losing untold progress in their educational careers and lives. i have kids, we know about the burden of remote learning people slipping behind, the mental health issues that come with that. how do you do that, as teachers, in your job to look out with them with what we're seeing in our children in the last year and a half. >> frankly, willie, i -- since april 2020, our union has been clear about in-school learning being vital.

and how to -- i'm trying to avoid the word try anymore. but how to reopen schools because of exactly what you've just said. by april 2021, 95% of the schools that my members are in were in. but we -- you know, but part of -- what's going on here is that we asked for two things. we asked for the cdc under the trump administration to give us clear guidance that we could use and we asked for the funding to do it. in some places we got it, some places we didn't, and we had a virus and disinformation that knocked the socks out of so many people. but i agree with you, we have -- our kids need to be in school and that's why we put our money where our mouth is to be knocking on doors to do exactly that, get kids back into school

to talk to parents. but if you talk to parents around the country and we've done polling with parents, worked with parents, parents see their teachers as lifesavers. and we're trying to rebuild those communities. it's the virus that stopped kids from being in schools, not my members. but i feel for every single child in america. >> we should underline that point. teachers want to be in school as well. >> absolutely. >> it's easier to have enrichment with their kids and parents and everyone. randy, mike barnicle is here with a question -- go ahead, randy. >> i was going to say. i'm in new mexico so it's a way that i can video into your show. but this is not the way to teach. and, you know, teachers know this, they turned on a dime in march 2020 to try to figure out how to engage kids.

but i have heard countless kids tell me that their teachers were their lifesavers along with their parents. so we have to bring the education community together but we have to help kids have the social, emotional learning and be with their friends and be in community and schools. >> amen to that, mike barnicle. >> randy, a few moments ago you used the phrase, and i agree with it, stop skate goating teachers, my mother taught school for 43 years, but today we have a number of teachers -- not a significant number as you just eluded to -- who refuse to get vaccinated. so is it scapegoating teachers for parents to wonder why is that teacher who refuses to accept the fact that the vaccine is a life safer and prevents

spread of the virus themselves. why is that teacher standing in front on of a kindergarten or second grade class. is that scapegoating a teacher? >> let's saying, for the sake of argument, personally i don't -- i don't understand why people are not. i think that the data is there. but there's also been such misinformation and disinformation. and the level of it is so gross. it's -- you know, just look at some of my emails about some of this stuff. so i'm actually meeting with some of these people who were very resistant. we were trying to meet fear with facts. but there's also a whole bunch of parents who have been resistant because the same kind of conspiracy theories or because of religious or medical exceptions, and so we have to

get to the bottom of all of that. i believe in vaccines, my union believes in vaccines, and we are meeting with every -- there's not been a district now who has tried to figure out how to get back safely, including having, you know, vaccines or testing, that we have not actually moved on and worked with. >> randy, we appreciate you being up early with us and we know the conversation will continue as we get more information and hopefully students and teachers can be in classrooms this fall. thanks for being with us. moderna announced this morning its covid-19 vaccine is about 93% effective four to six months after the second dose. that's barely a change from the 94% of efficacy, the drug maker reported in its original trial. moderna plans to complete its

submission for full fda approval by the end of the month and you heard randy say that fda approval could open the door for a teachers union to accept vaccine mandates in school. we will see. still ahead on "morning joe." >> the indifference shown to my colleagues is disgraceful. >> d.c. police officer michael fanone survived the january 6th on the capitol, in time he says why he will not let anyone forget that day. you're watching "morning joe" we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe" we'll be right back. eosinophil. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection-site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your doctor about nucala. find your nunormal with nucala.

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they began to beat me with their fists and what felt like hard metal objects. at one point i came face-to-face with an attacker who repeatedly launched for me and attempted to remove my firearm. i heard chanting from the crowd get his gun and kill him with his own gun.

i was aware that i could be stripped of my gun. i was electrocuted again and again with a taser. i've got kids. >> d.c. police officer, michael fanone testifying last week about what he faced during the january 6th capitol attack. he and his fellow police officers referred to those who stormed the capitol that day as terrorists. more than 100 officers were injured that day, including officer fanone who suffered a

heart attack. molly ball chronicles what happened to him that day. in a new piece entitled what mike fanone can't forget. this is his story recounting weeks of searching witnesses, it is a story about what we agree to remember and not forget. about how history is not lived but manufactured after the fact. we are supposed to come together and say never forget, agree on the heroes and villains who was at fault and how their culpability must be avenged. what's if we can't agree, we're too busy arguing about what happened. molly, good to see you. that's so well said and written. there's a whitewashing about

what happened on that day despite the fact that many of the people dismissing it were there and experienced it themselves. i think it's important to tell officer fanone's story. we heard some of it from his testimony in congress last week but what did he tell you about what he felt that day and what he's been feeling since then. >> a lot of what we talked about is how abandoned he's felt in the aftermath of january 6th. this is the man who suffered the most severe nonlethal injuries of any officer who responded that day. he went there voluntarily, he was supposed to be doing an evening shift on his narcotics job and he rushed into danger to save american democracy. and since then what he's found is that he doesn't have a lot of friends and allies in the law enforcement communities and in the republican party and even in the democratic party there are a lot of people who don't necessarily want to hear what a red neck cop has to say about

how we should support law enforcement in the country. so he's a man alone. he's a man whose story need to be heard, a man who's determined to fight for the truth no matter what it costs him and it's cost him everything. >> you're right, molly. he -- you said some people don't want to hear what a red neck cop has to say about law enforcement how law enforcement should be supported. he finds himself in an interesting position. he actually seems to cut the mold in many ways, first of all of being a cop as being somebody who would naturally support donald trump. >> and he did vote for donald trump in 2016 and we talked about the reasons for that and how, you know, as a white cop patrolling black neighborhoods, which is what his job basically consistented of he felt liberal politicians in the media created divisions in the society and turned people against the police. you can agree with that or not, but there are a lot of cops to felt that way, there's a lot of

people with whom trump's message of blue lives matter, as a clumsy and perhaps not actually followed through on as you can say it was, but that resonated with a lot of people in law enforcement who felt like they weren't getting a lot of support in other places. and so, you know, this is a guy who, like i said, he's culturally conservative, calls himself a red neck, likes nothing better than hunting and fishing and being with his family and he's dragged into this political fight but he's not going to back down. >> how disconcerting it must be for him to be somebody who's culturally conservative, who supports -- obviously supports cops. said things that liberals would find disconcerting as well. and yet, here he is, he finds himself on january the 6th, being beaten brutalized by american flags by people carrying blue lives matter

flags. it's got to be so ver tij nous for him and the rest of the police officers that went through this. >> yeah, there's serious consequences to the lies that are being told. we have already had four officers who responded on january 6th who have died by suicide, who have taken their own lives one of them last week two days after officer fanone testified before congress and this is somebody that officer fanone knew and worked with for many years. so this emotional strain, trauma, not being believed and having, you know, society sort of rally around these guys who i think are heroes, it's taken a real toll and it's taken a toll on officer fanone as well. he really struggles with a lot of it. and, you know, i think that's the importance of the story beyond just one man's life, the importance of the story is that

what i think the january 6th committee is trying to do and what i think we need to do is to face what happened on january 6th and not just trying to move on, come to terms with what happened on that day. >> great piece, molly. what's striking is officer fanone and so many of his colleagues are still at the capitol, at the crime scene where so many were assaulted or traumatized and dealing with every day, republican lawmakers who seek to downplay what happened, deny what happened, belittle their acts of heroism, what is it like for those olice officers who might find themselves agreeing with the republican lawmakers on a host of issues but now see them every day in light of what happened on january 6th? what's that like? >> officer fanone is not a capitol police officer, he's not

back on the job at this point, he is still on medical leave. he was cleared just a couple weeks ago for his physical injuries but he is still dealing with a lot of mental health issues. but i -- yes, you know, i spoke to many capitol police for this story and they were in the thick of the fight, and it is funny, if you walk around capitol hill you see these guys, the same guys who you've seen on tv or referenced in news reports or were in -- you know were in the fight that day, and, you know, i certainly cannot speak for all of them where they are politically and how they feel. but it's clear that there's been a strain on these officers. and what officer fanone feels is they haven't been adequately recognized by the political establishment, whether that's medals and ceremonies, thank you notes, whatever, they're not demanding any of that, but i don't think they should have to beg for it. in fact, today i believe there

will be finally a ceremony at the white house when the president signs the gold medal legislation that it took congress, you know, seven months to pass honoring all of these officers. but they had never reached out to officer fanone despite several attempts on his part. until i contacted him for the story. >> molly ball thank you. the piece is the cover story for the newish on of time magazine. coming up senator tim kaine will be our guest. plus former secretary of state mike pompeo was gifted a $5,800 bottle of whiskey by the nation of japan. now the state department wants to know what happened to it. i have an idea. we'll be right back.

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"the wall street journal" is reporting that the state department is trying to locate a $5,800 bot of liquor given to former secretary of state mike pompeo by the japanese government in 2019. in the new federal register report the whiskey is marked disposition unknown. we've all been there, don't know what happened, we find the empty bottle in the recycling in the morning. under the law, the gift of that size becomes government property unless they want to buy it. a lawyer says mike pompeo has no memory of receiving that. >> that's why you drink from plastic. >> paper cup. >> the paper shining a light on the gifts received by president trump.

in 2018 alone trump received photographs or portraits of himself that were valued at more than $10,000, that included an image of himself carved in stone from the president of egypt worth close to $5,000. it's amazing how quickly, joe, all these countries had president trump's number. remember the first trip to saudi arabia, where he arrived and they projected his face on the side of hotel. they knew what gets him going. >> they knew how to work this guy, pictures of himself, projecting the strong man image. maybe you can find this picture for us, tj, along those same lines there was once a picture of -- a gift that lbj gave to the pope at the time when he went over to the vatican, it was a bust of himself. so we'll -- >> bold.

>> so donald trump not the only vain president. let's bring in right now a member of the armed services foreign relations and budget committees, busy man, democratic senator tim kaine of virginia his legislation to repeal the authorization for the use of military force in iraq passed the yesterday. what has it been 17 years now that that authorization has been used by presidents as an excuse to be able to go to war without going to congress first. >> well, joe, yeah, 19 years since the iraq war authorization was passed in october of '02. but more importantly, saddam hussein, trying to topple his government he was caught and executed in 2006 and then a new government was constituted and we're now a partner of iraq's so we have this live war authorization against a nation that we are working in partnership with. as i pointed out yesterday when we finished world war ii we didn't leave a war authorization

up against germany and japan just in case and with vietnam just in case, instead we worked to turn an adversary into a partner and then eventually into an ally. so it's time to get rid of the authorization and for congress to reclaim the powers that we're supposed to have under article i. >> yeah. and, of course, those powers have been pulled away for years now. for decades some would even say centuries, i think this is something that john calhoun was arguing about in the 19th century. what does congress do to get back some of its constitutional powers that obviously have been taken away by an imperial presidency? >> joe, and i'd actually put more of the blame on congress. i think congress has given them away. i think we have the ability to exercise oversight but congresses of both parties have abdicated congressional powers to presidents of both parties on

matters like trade, which is a congressional power and constitution, certainly we're making appropriations and other items. here's what we need to do, in the war making space which should be the most solemn, i've been on this since i came into the senate in 2013 we need to make clear we don't go to war unless congress votes to go to war, with the exception of a president can always defend the country from an attack or imminent attack but other than that we don't go to war without a congressional vote. so this vote on the iraq resolutions is the first step to it. the next step, which is tougher, we have to analyze at the end of the war mission in afghanistan we have to analyze the 2001 authorization that's been used for 20 years come this september in countries all over the world in circumstances that nobody who voted for it would have contemplated and we have to narrow that down to really fit the current need for the u.s. to continue to keep americans state from non-state terrorist groups.

i'm working on that with colleagues as well and in dialogue with the white house. i'll give the white house credit, usually presidents say no congress, let me have a blank check. the biden administration supports the repeal of the iraq authorizations and they're working with us on the 2001 authorization hey're working with us on the 2001 authorizatio week, we were talking about positive things he has seen when he's gone to iraq. too often we talk about it and everyone flinches talking about a 20-year mistake, forgiving the mistakes the military made in 2007, 28, 2009, the turn around of the anbar province, to turn around baghdad and the rest of the country. i mean, they you is just did some extraordinary things.

the troopsz had to go book n. once again, help bring stability to that area do you share some of david ignacious' optimism while iraq will never be perfect, it will never be a jeffersonia we still see key players trying to move that country forward? >> joe, i do believe that one more element to this that's really important. if you look at you know what keeps us up at fight in the middle east it's two things, non-safe terrorist groups t and iran. iran is an ally with non-state terroristth groups. we're working hand-in-hand. that's great. secondly, iran would love an iran hostile to the united states and friendly tole them. instead, t you saw the prime minister visiting with president biden here in d.c. not long ago, iraq wants a partnership with the united states. that drives iran crazy. it drives iran crazy. so you know it used to be zum

hussein and iran were enemies, so there was sort of an antagonistic buffer right next to iran, with saddam hussein's death that antagonism is gone. the new reality an iran partnering with the united states cab force for stability in the f regions that will hold back iran's hostile ambitions. >> it's so important thatst we have anta iraqi prime minister that said, okay, nope, we don't need combat troops anymore. we understand you want to bring your combat troops home. we still want a partnership with the united states of america. we need your help. mike barnical, that is great news as we keep trying to push back against isis and against the iranians, who want to have more and more power in iraq. >> yes. and you are right, joe. the iraqi government and the substantial percentage of the iraqi people are now natural

allies in the global war on terror. much of it rooted in that neighborhood, iraq and iran. senator king, i'd like to ask you 20 years off the force has been reskripd or set to the side. what about a new warfare and a use against cyber warfare, someone shuts down our financial systems, your water systems, our electric grid. what authorization of use of force are you thinking about or are you thinking about for the new warfare we are thinking about. >> you asked a great question, cyber, drones, fawn state actors that don't follow geneva conventions. so we do have to grapple with this. when i came into the senate, the military didn't view cyber attacks as military-type attacks. i remember oncey- we had a key official before the armed services committee. he talked about an attack like you mentioned on the grid or

hospitals, he said, that could lead to war. i saido so you don't think tha is war? you don't think attacking the power grid or water systems or hospitals are r war? the answer is, no, they didn't. we didn't review the more than cyber attacks as hostile. that was a failure of imagination that led to some of the challenges in 2016. so we have to broaden our understanding of what modern warfare isha and figure out way to respond in kind. we've now started to work with allies like nato for a while. nato wasn't clear that a cyber attack could trigger the collective self-defensehe provisions of article 5 of the nato charter. now they realize after they see what russia isze doing to nato allies like estonia and others, this actually is a hostile war fire and we need to respond in kind. we don't have a plan right now to have a congressional vote on any authorization ofvo cyber

attacks any time c soon. wes certainly defend ourselves. but we're starting to see these cyberar attacks not as you know diplomacy by other means. we are seeing them as actual, you know, modern warfare. >> senator kaine, good morning. i wanted to talk about another traditional hot spot, jonathan lemire. when president trump took office he said they warned him this will be your challenge. officials i talkeden to noticed how quiet north korea hack. it's an opaque country. what isn your sense of what is happening here? isha this covid-19? feeling the quiet there? who is your sense of that country? >> yeah, my sense, jonathan, are you right even a u.s. senator with classified you know access to a lot of stuff, we don't know that much more because it is very opaque. i think covid has really hammered them. ier think the period of quiet i because ofri that. i their state-run media says we

have no cases of covid. look you add to the economic destitution of north korea, this global pandemic, there is no way border south korea and china they don't have covid cases. they got them. i think that is probably the reason for this. there is alsok some interestin challenges in korea right now. the korean -- south korea has probably because of the humanitarian crisis of covid openeds up some new channels o dialogue with northel korea. as you know, those open and then they close and they hop and they close.an there are some new option and dialogue between south korea and north korea. so, look, kim jong-un likes to be a spoil sport and rain on everybody's parade and surprisen everybody. so you can't s imagine that he won'tne try some provocation in the future. but i think in the indo pacific right now, t i think the big woy is china. i don't think north korea is what ish on front of the of mi for thent administration every day. and look, north korea, they're

an irrational actor, kim jong-un will do anything to maintain his family's hold onis power. they know if they do something too provocative, the u.s. in about 20 minutes could take actions that would, you know, basically ensure that he and his family wouldn't be in power. that tends to keep them in check. i am hoping it will keep them in check for a while. >> all right. senator tim kaine, thank you so much. as always, great talking to you. i hope to see you again soon. >> yep. all right. willie, by the way, we have that picture. heater e here's lbj when meeting the pope, giving him a bust of, the pope staring at it. okay. well, yes, i guess so not quite our speed. we like handing out, of course, when we have dignitaries visiting the "morning joe" set,

a bluft bust. there giving him a bust of himself. >> you know what was so special? that was around christmas time, the pope gave president johnson a 15th century oil painting of the nativity scene and he said, cool, handed him a bronze bust of himself. pretty great. >> oh my lord. still ahead on "morning joe", the senate's number two democrat dick durbin of illinois will be our guest. plus, with coronavirus cases surging, dr. fauci is warning about the possibility of a deadlier strain than the delta variant. "morning joe" is back in two minutes. of treatment once every 3 months. so, ask your doctor if botox® is right for you, and if a sample is available. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection

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baaam. internet that keeps you ahead of the game. you may pay zero dollars for botox®. that's cute, but my internet streams to my ride. yeah, well mine's always got my back. okay chill, 'cuz mine's so fast, no one can catch me. speed? we'll show you speed. wow! -that's nothing... ...because my internet gives me a flex 4k streaming box for free. impressive! that's 'cuz you all have the same internet. xfinity xfi so powerful, it keeps one-upping itself. can your internet do that? . >> it's a horrible lifestyle of self-inflicted pain. >> it's very real, the hospital shortage. it's absolutely very real. i think what we agree on is that covid is real. >> these folks back there have

lost their minds. you are the ultimate knuckleheads because of what you are saying and standing for, people are losing their licenses. >> i had hoped a state mask requirement in schools wouldn't be necessary. but it is. >> why don't you do your job? why don't you get this border secure and until you do too, i don't want to hear a blip about covid from you. >> ha, ha, ha like a doctor sayingio don't you work on your back swing and i will do the scans to see whether you have cancer or not. i don't even get that. but anyway, of those five governors say republicans, only ron desantis doesn't want to talk about covid. in fact, he says, work on your back swing before i work on anything -- he's talking about the border's if you can't do two

things at once. of course, that strategy didn't work too well for donald trump. it's not going to work too well for parents and children and teachers and part of ron's state that are experienceing extraordinarily high levels of covid. i am a parent and i certainly hope that my kid and kids in their classes are going to be able to wear masks if that is, in fact, what mandate the teachers and the students, the local school board. imagine that, decisions being made on the local level. imagine that, decisions made by parents, teachers, principles and students, imagine that. why, that almost sounds like a conservative concept, oh, ron, he says, no the power of the state, socialism rules. we're going to decide everything

from a thousand miles away. it's no more conservative actually than good old ron, socialist ron saying, hey, if you were a business, you'd have no control over how you keep your business safe. i will ban from you taking safety precautions that you think will keep people inside your business safe. you think the bottom line. big government republicanism. i guess so. sounds like socialism. another governor meanwhile is claiming the political life, denying the accusations questioning the legitimacy of the investigation that he called for. can that trump-like strategy work for andrew cuomo and all people said, no good morning, welcome to "morning joe", it is thursday, august 5th. mika has the morning off, you know, where is she?

she's in the south of france. we usually don't mind that i don't know how she gets there as quickly as she does, she comes right back. she a a reason to be in the south of france, celebrating, i suppose in not that any of my relatives have been named ambassadors. it's important to strategic geocountries, but mark brzezinski, the former ambassador to sweden was nominated by joe biden to be u.s. ambassador of poland. you know, they've got a rich ristory, obviously, dr. brzezinski from poland, he was good friends, ski partners growing up before pope john paul i.i. was jo pope john paulism i.. there was more sporting plaid. we need to go back to the plaid picture. that's what willie and i will be more focused on. we have mika smiling and the

pope giving her those important word, willie, be kind to your second husband. but a big day for, a big day for the brzezinski family and really a great day for poland because, you know, the brzezinskis love poland and love the polish people and a great relationship with pope john paulism i.. of course, there is brzezinski who sat next to john paul ii. boy, was that a big mistake for him. he began immediately lecturing him on women in the church and things such as that and but, but it was, again, very, very good, great news for the family. but again, it's sort of moments

like this sort of show me, willie, the discorrect between mika's upbringing and mine where her father skied with a pope and you know i think i saw archie manning once outside of an ihop in meridian, mississippi in '73. >> listen, depending on where you are from, that might be a little bit bigger with all due respect to see archie manning in the south. that jumped out to me that he was ski partners with pope john paul. a little different for me. that's great news, amazing news for that family, dr. brzezinski born in warsaw. the family is so rooted in that country. what a proud day for family. let's turn to the news with the delta family causing a surge in coronavirus cases. dr. fauci is warning a more deadly strain could be possible. dr. fauci said the virus has

been given ample time to morph into a variant to conto spread in unvaccinated areas. dr. fauci said, quote, if another one comes along with an equally high probably of transmitting but is also much more severe, then we could be in trouble. dr. fauci warned covid cases are rising in a very steep fashion across the country and may double in the coming weeks to 200,000 a day. in florida, "the washington post" reports some of the state's largest school districts have announced they will either keep or issue new mask mandates due to the latest covid outbreak ravaging the state. that threatens to withhold funds from schools if they mandate students where face coverings, according to post, at least four school districts in the state are pushing back against the governor's staunch opposition to new virus restrictions or mask mandates after he issued that executive order on friday.

brynn county, announced yesterday it will keep its mask mandate and await further guidance before rendering a decision on the mask update for the upcoming school year. you saw governor desantis responded to his criticism and other republican governors for bank mask mandates. >> joe biden has taken to himself to try to single out florida over covid. what is his big solution? what is he so upset about florida? his solution is he wants to have the government force kinder gart gardeners to wear masks in school. in florida, the governor will be in charge of that decision. why don't you do your job and get this border secure, until you do that, i don't want to

hear a blip about covid from you? >> who was he talking to? cletus the slack jaw. who is fooled by that? i'm a parent in florida. ive got kids going to school in florida. i've got kids that parents, in my school, and my kids' school, they're very concerned about what's going on here. so you are saying that there can be no mandates, no mask mandates, that schools can't determine that. counties can't determine there. there are 67 counties in the state of florida. what is happening in walton county is far different than who is happening in broward county. what is happening on the east coast of florida is so different than what's happening in

northwest florida. you can't have a one size fits all approach. of course, you would think that somebody who claims to be a conservative would understand that. but he's taking the decision away from local governments and parents talking to those local governments and having an impact in their local school districts. he's saying we're going to make all the decisions from here in tallahassee. we're going to ban any mask mandates. whatever part of the state and it's the exact opposite of what he is saying. yeah, we got to fix some order. we do. i have been saying that for some time. people are angry because i think we need to be far more aggressive at the border. somehow linking that to covid in florida and kids being local school districts being able to

protect children, the border has no more to do with that than me disagreeing with what joe biden is doing in afghanistan. it makes no sense at all. it's just stupid. i don't know why this guy is supposed to be smart plays to the lowest common denominator every time and always takes victory laps in the swing when it comes to covid. he has the last two years, just to get slammed in the sum were. >> yeah. it is an upsidedown approach for a small guy conservative. the idea that the government, the central government will make these decisions for the entire state when as you say this is very different in all those parts of that huge state of florida. hospitals in south florida right now are having to postpone elective surgeries. again, this is where we were a year ago because of the rush of covid patients into their emergency rooms and icu.

so this is very real. this is very serious. we are seeing that in different school districts across the state. we are saying you can try to take away our funding for your school if you implement a mask ban. i guess we'll take that chance those school districts are saying to protect our students because covid is raging in this state. >> still ahead, how one republican is doing something rarely seen in politics these days? admitting he was wrong. asa hutchinson says he regrets signing a ban on mask man daets. we will talk about that all coming up next on "morning joe." coming up next on "morning joe." i've lost count of how many asthma attacks i've had. but my nunormal with nucala? fewer asthma attacks. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred.

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♪ ♪ arkansas republican governor

asa hutchinson says he regrets signing a mask mandate in schools in april. >> i signed it at the time because our cases were at a very low point. i knew it would be overridden by the legislature if i didn't sign it. i signed it for those reasons. everything was low. everything has changed. in hindsight, i wish that has not become law. the only chance we have is to amend i'd or for the court to say that it has an unconstitutional foundation. >> governor hutchinson now is asking the state legislature to reverse that decision. so local school districts can require masks when classes resume in just a few weeks. let's bring in our panel, white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lemire and president of the national action network reverend al sharpton and co-founder of punch bowl news anna palmer.

the man you cover every day governor biden and desantis thinks he is scoring political points in this confrontation with the commander in kiev. >> you are right. president biden has certainly changed his rhetoric in the last week or two about the pandemic. in two different areas. first of all, he plainly put it as a pandemic of the unvaccinated now. he and the administration officials are focusing on getting more arms at this point. they are squarely being blamed for the rise in cases across the country. biden's other target, republican governors, particularly desantis, who have strewn iowa mask mandates, questioned influence from the cdc, who have been slow to deal out federal release funds, including the

moratorium and that wide biden has said they are in danger, certainly desantis played the clip in terms of unleashed vitriol to president biden. we have seen the president several times today in a number of events. i suspect we will hit back. officials said to me, it will be a continued theme. he needs to follow the science and do what the administration has wanted, biden said that is a goal that he wants schools across the country to reopen safely and, therefore, follow the cdc guidelines, that would be masks. so expect that to continue, willie. >> let the local school districts decide what they're going to do. don't have a top-down socialist type approach, big government approach, a centralized approach in a state that has 15, 16 million people, 18 million

people in it. 23, 17 counties. i'm sorry, 67 counties. and again, it is five different states. so, yeah, there is this one governor who again is acting like this big government socialist telling small businesses, no, you are not allowed to run your business like a small business f. you are in a really hot spot, you feel like you want to require masks for people to come into your family restaurant that's been in your family for three or four decade, you are trying to save that small business. you know the only way is by doing what you think is best and requiring masks from people doing inside dining, ron desantis won't allow that. it's a ban. he's taking all the power. he is centralizing all the power in tallahassee, florida. does that make you feel that

power, not let small business owners, not let small family restaurant owners, not let people that have had family businesses along beach fronts for 40, 50, 60, 70 years, fought let them decide themselves? he's taking all that power? and now he's doing the same thing to school boards. he's doing same things to parents, the same ting to local governments, bank them from putting in a mask mandate in their counties. as if miami-dade county is the same as okalusa county. it really is ridiculous, it's stupid, it's also dangerous. coming up, louisiana is one of the states hit hardest be by the latest surge of the coronavirus. some hospitals are so full they have to turn away patients from other medical centers. we will be talking to a are the

in one of those state's leading healthcare systems when we come back on morning joe. care system back on morning joe. [relaxed summer themed music playing] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ summer is a state of mind, you can visit anytime. savor your summer with lincoln.

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in louisiana where a state wide indoor mask mandate went back into effect yesterday, here was the message in the week earlier from democratic governor john bell edwards to those against mack. >> do you give-a-damn? i hope you do. i do. i've heard it said often louisiana is the most pro-life state in the nation. i want to believe that. it ought to mean something. >> let's bring in the president and ceo of position nard health warner thomas, objection hard is louisiana's largest non-profit

academic health system and its largest private employer. mr. thomas, thanks for being with us. first of all, what is the state of affairs right now in louisiana? yesterday a new state record for hospitalizations single-day hospitalizations. i know in louisiana, break ac record that had been set all the way pack in january. so what does it look like on the ground there in the hospitals that you serve? >> it's certainly a very challenging situation today. we are seeing our cases increase exponentially in the last month, we're up 700% for the amount of patients we are seeing in the hospital in covid. really the pandemic evolved as a pandemic from the unvaccinated. 97% of the people with covid are unvaccinated and it's really just a situation where we see exponential growth. we're up 67% in one week and it certainly is growing exponentially every single day. >> lament has one of the lowest

vaccination rates in the country. are you seeing any movement as these cases explode and the hospitalizations go up? is that motivating? is that incentivizing people to take another look at the vaccine there? >> we are seeing some in the past couple of weeks. the louisiana vaccination rate is about 37% and as you were talking earlier, it is different in different parts of the state. in new orleans, it's in the mid-60s. in other parts of the state, it can be in the 20s or low 30s. we have seen an uptick in the last couple weeks. in oxnard, we vaccinated 500,000 vaccine shots across the state. so we are continuing to see that tick-up. but, once again, it need to be faster. we need so see more people using the vaccine. it's proven. we know it works. it's going to the masking

comment, i remember talking to the governor and asking him to reinstitute and he put the mitigation factor into place. we hope that is a factor that starts slowing cases down. once again, as this pandemic has evolved, you'd have to change your approach, you know three or four months ago, we had three or four cases, masking probably wasn't as big of a deal today. today masking for this new surge making is very important. >> it's jonathan lemire in this surge, tell us about the ages of the people being admitted. in particular, are you see ac rise in younger people? are these young adults? children? what ailment dos they have and how seriously sick are they? >> that's a good question. you go back to march of 2020 the average age was 69. the second and third surge the

average age was 65, the fourth surge today the average age is 55. you know 40% of the patients we see now are 50 years and younger, so we are absolutely seeing this variant impact the younger population. the other reason we see it impacting the younger population is the vaccine rate in people 65 and 70-years-old and over is much, much higher. you know, we're close to 75-to-80 pars of folks over 65 in louisiana are vaccinated. that's another reason that we're not seeing people older being impacted by the delta variant and hospitalized. 90% of the folks unhospitalized in our hospitals today with the delta variant. so we're in a very different situation today than in the first surge. the other thing today is we are continuing to take care of lots of other patients who need

medical care while we're taking care of this surge. in the first surge, we had a lot of the other medical services shut down, shelter in place. people were at home. so we didn't have as many medical issues as we do today. we talk about 50 transfers a day from other institutions that want to send us patients for a higher level of care. in the past ten days, we've had to turn away 300 transfers because we cannot accept them given the level of covid patients we have and given the level and pressure on our staff. >> president and ceo of louisiana's oxnard health, warner thomas, thanks so much for being with us this morning. we appreciate. coming up next, the number two democrat dick durbin is standing bit. his reaction to the new mandate for kid to wear masks in school and much more when "morning joe" comes back. l and much more when "morning joe"

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can your internet do that? a federal judge in colorado is ordering two lawyers who filed a suit claiming the 20 e20 election for donald trump, to pay the attorneys fees. he says they violated ethical violation filing it in the first place calling it one enormous conspiracy theory filed in bad faith. he wrote, quote, albeit disorganized the complaints organizations are extraordinarily serious and if accepted by true by large numbers of people are the stuff of which violent insurrections are made. that's a quote from the judge the attorneys say they will appeal. joining us now chairman of

the senate judiciary committee senator dick durbin of illinois. it's good to see you. on the topic of the 2020 election, the committee i share -- you share, they pressured the department of justice to overturn the 2020 election. what exactly are you alleging? what are you looking into? >> reporter: well, it gets down to the bottom line of what happened in those days after the november election and before president biden was sworn in. there was a lot of activity by trump personally and those supporting him to try to put pressure on the department of justice to back up his whacky big life theories. there were profiles of courage that stood up to him and profiles of cowardice as well. we want to make a recordf of this. this is not a curiosity. it gets to the heart of this

country and this president oran one can challenge the basis of democracy. >> who do you want to testify in your committee? how high up the pecking order do you seek to go here? >> we are working through it. we will be interviewing key witnesses in the next few days. that's the preliminary step we should take. it will be a bipartisan effort. they invite the republicans to be a part of it to hear what we learn and to decide where to go next. it focuses on the department of justice. of course, that would include bill barr at some point, i hope, who will come forward and tell the story of why he resigned under the circumstances. >> senator, i wonder if sometimes we aren't numbered by just how bizarre or how insane the last month or so the trump presidency was when he literally

pulled out the stops to overturn a free and fair election. i am curious, how would you compare what happened in december and january of '20 and '21 to what nixon tried to do during the watergate, the saturday night massacre, the firing of one justice department official after another do you think what trump did was actually more dangerous to american democracy? >> in my mind, of course. when you go to the heart of the issue of the peaceful transfer of power in the united states, you really are questioning whether or not this nation as we know it, this constitutional creation can survive. it's that basic. what happened under nixon is well documented. but it was a question of trying to suppress a investigation he found embarrassing. this is much, much more. if it were the raveings of this former president we were dealing

with, we could push them off to the side. so many in his party stood by or in affirmation of his cause it's worrisome. you wonder, what's going on in their minds? they've got to know better. for fear of what trump might do politically, they're silent or join a chorus of support. >> some are silent, in fact they don't stand for an election for another five years or three years, that's the craziest part of it all. when have you william barr that saw himself more as donald trump's personal lawyer than attorney general representing the united states of america with some of the disturbing decision he made, some of the things he did when he is drawing the conclusion actually that there was no widespread voter fraud in telling donald trump and other people that it was quote bs and you have republican senators still sitting that you work with, who won't speak out against what we heard last weekend is deeply offensive.

politically, but patriotically, deeply offensive. >> joe, the fear factor is beyond anything i have seen in politics. i have been around a while. the notion that donald trump might single you out and say, now, turn around and defeat him is enough for some of these senators to do things which are completely indefensible. i take a look at the commission to study what happened on january 6th. i was in the so-called secret location with mitch mcconnell. i know how he felt at this moment. i thought to myself, we are really coming together. democrats and republicans at this moment to stand up against what happened on january 6th. now look what has played out since then, efforts of a bipartisan commission to establish the history, what was behind this have been forwarded by mcconnell, himself, here in the united states senate and sadly his own people, his own republican senators have stood by and reaction.

>> senator durbin, jonathan lemire, good to see you. you guys have worked the weekend and may have another weekend ahead of you. can you give us an update where things stand with the infrastructure bill? when is this going to get done? how is it going to get done? and talk to us about the time line you foresee within the reconciliation package, which will be bigger and present complications dealing with some of the republicans, the reconciliation can present it's own authority issues keeping the democrats altogether. >> there are three major steps left. the last one, reconciliation is likely to be taken up in september. but what we hope to achieve and senator schumer said as our goal is to complete this bipartisan infrastructure package. we have a series of amendments, scores have been considered, some members have stepped back and said, well, i'll drop the two or three i have on file if this one can be considered. that's the natural process of legislateing and amending.

we've had more activity on the floor of the united states senate, bipartisan activity, off amendments, debating back and forth than we've had in the last four, five years tchlth senate as i remember it. i'm glad to esa it come back. we are not only debating the substance of each and every amendment as important as they may be. we are gathering democrats and republicans together on the floor and off floor in an exchange of ideas, which is at the heart of what the senate is all about. what chuck schumer said is he hospitals to complete this bill. i am with him. as soon as we can. we have a reasonable amount of ames and move to final passage. before we leave for the august recess to take up the budget resolution, itself, it is the general document, the reconciling simiation is based on and -- reconciling simiation is based on and he wants to finish it before we leave august recess. >> you spoke highly about this

bipartisan you are seeing on this, senators working toke. the police reform that bill teams to have stalled. the parties couldn't be further apart on the idea of voting rights. that is something that will move to the forefront later this year. where do you stand on that? what do you believe should happen to the filibuster with i so many think has to be change or eliminate to be done lejts latively. >> that's a fair question. certainly, i support efforts under s-1 or for the people act to establish bake standards so that eligible americans don't suffer a hardship when they decide to go out and vote. that's not too much to ask. i think that should be guaranteed. senator klobuchar has led the efforts, put that together. but we anticipate that even with a majority of democrats, it may not be enough because of the filibuster. on the policing front, i would say corey booker andry in

communication every single day. he has poured his heart and soul from this with tim scott. they haven't closed the deal. i hope they can the sooner the better. on the question of the filibuster, if we gather 50 that's together, we got to be prepared to put in placeing? that will work the day after the morning after, to keep the senate moving forward. it's a big challenge. >> senator, you've expressed concern about what's happening at the southern border, new numbers down there reveal the historic scope of the migrant surge, top border patrol officials tell nbc news correspondent julia ainsley, it's like nothing they've ever seen before. take a look. >> reporter: despite scorching summer heat, the record migrant numbers are growing. 2,000 in july. more than 20-year high and 19,000 unicompanied children were picked up. the largest ever recorded. officials sigh hundreds of mike

grants have been packed under this bridge and are worried about the spread of covid. isis setting in to provide tests and offer vaccines. in the rio grande valley, we saw a massive group of mike grants kept under a bridge by the trees. is this a breakdown of the system? >> this is not san antonio am. i feel what we are dealing with is much biff than what seen in the past. >> reporter: he tells us the biden administration is now deporting more families who don't qualify for asylum. >> friday we had our first plate, central american, northern triangle countries, back to central america these are family units. >> reporter: we met a one-year-old onja. they brought him here from inaugural nicaragua. >> we had nowhere to sleep ep. we had to sleep on the dirt, itself.

>> reporter: the biden administration is facing growing backlash over the border policy including the unprecedented step of releasing 50,000 mike grants into the u.s. without court daughter. the county sheriff. >> it just doesn't seem that our officials in washington are listening to us and we all feel abandoned. we have a crisis down here. >> reporter: the mayor filing a disaster declaration. >> last night we had town 1800 immigrants come in and catholic charities the sent more. >> reporter: meanwhile, immigration advocates are taking the administration to court for keeping covid-19 restrictions that sent some families back. >> accepting families back to danger fought thobzed by the law. >> reporter: board irma trom stopping more than 5 enthusiasm immigrants crossing the southern board ore each day. so senator, back in much,

the white house, president biden, dismissed the spike as seasonal. the winter months seeing crossing and ap pre helpingss. usually the numbers go down. but a lot of the conditions have always been there. there has always been extreme poverty and violence from which these migrants flee. so what is going on here? what does the biden administration need to do better? >> i can tell you, we're facing a debt separate situation there. there are many reasons for it, many explanations. i think we have to be honest. a solution to this has to engage the central american companies supplying those headed to our borders. but we have to look at this issue if a larger context. the judiciary committee has responsibility on the issue of immigration. virtually everyone agrees in private that our immigration system is broken down. it's been 36 years wednesday he had any immigration form of

stance. we need to upgrade the situation. we have an emergency on hand. i have been down there personally. i have seen evidence of what has been going on and this situation demands our full attention. >> well, senator, it seems the demands of america's immediate attention as well. there is a humanitarian crisis on the border. there is a growing healthcare crisis on the board ore. there are obviously people showing up that have covid. it's spreading like wildfire there. 55,000 migrants allowed that the united states with a court date. no belief by many they will get that court date. the question is, how do we stem the flow of these illegal immigrants into the united states in a way that not only protects our border but also alleiates this humanitarian

crisis and a healthcare crisis that is disproportionately impacting those people at the border? >> wing, joe, there is no excuse to have people come to this country to cause danger by those that live there. to use covid-19 is a basis to turn so many back is grounded i a position i think is clearly defensible. secondly, the question is what can we do. not only engaging tribal countries but mexico as well in a common effort to slow down this flow of immigrants to our country, pressing numbers. meantime, we need to show as often as possible, as frequently as possible humane treatment of those that come. we don't want to repeat what happened with zero tolerance under donald trump where children were separated from

parents, some still haven't been reunited. we're doing our best. it is a challenge of historic proportion. >> senator dick durbin of illinois, we'll continue the conversation. it is not going anywhere. appreciate the time this morning, thank you very much. the white house is considering new policies for foreign visitors as pertains to vaccines. new reporting next on "morning joe." joe. welcome to allstate. (phone notification) where we've just lowered our auto rates. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ and savings like that will have you jumping for joy. now, get new lower auto rates with allstate. because better protection costs a whole lot less. you're in good hands with allstate. click or call for a lower auto rate today.

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it matters who you travel with. the biden administration reportedly is developing a plan that would require all foreign visitors to be fully vaccinated against covid-19 before entering the united states. the plan reported by reuters part of a new system put in place after current restrictions on travel into the country are lifted, but officials have yet to determine when it might be. bring in white house correspondent for pbs news hour and former president of american medical association, dr. patrice harris, ceo of digital health company e-med. let me begin with reporting out of the white house, an extraordinary step to have every foreign visitor to the u.s. present a covid vaccine card. how close they are to implementing this?

>> white house officials say it is an ongoing plan because the delta variant is continuing to shift how the white house sees opening travel up to foreign nationals but the idea is that this interagency working group is coming up with a fan, a phased approach. with few exceptions, foreign nationals have to be fully vaccinated before getting to the united states. they're saying now, the white house facing questions about when are they opening up travel, are we going to see things we're seeing in canada and the uk. this is really the biden administration push to make sure the country is safe and that people that come here are protected. big questions are what about the foreign nationals coming here to get vaccinated? most of us probably know someone that's come from a different country, i know i do, a country that hasn't had the same access that we had to vaccines, while the biden administration was touting the fact that 100 million vaccines have gone to other countries. a lot of countries don't have

access like we do in the united states. big question of what to do with those people. also a big question how this is going to be verified. we have seen some reports already of counterfeit vaccine cards. there are big questions to answer, but the idea is now for the biden administration to come up with a plan that with few exceptions, foreign nationals have to be fully vaccinated to come here. >> dr. harris, curious moving from foreign nationals to what's happening in our own country, obviously a lot of us have concerns of what's going on in nursing homes, a lot of health care providers, 40 to possibly 50% in long-term care facilities don't have the vaccines. you see the numbers spiking. what would your recommendation be? >> joe, this virus has been relentless and absolutely doing a great job replicating and mutating. we have to be relentless in our efforts. when it comes to health care

establishments, those taking care of those that are most vulnerable are certainly -- vaccines should be encouraged. they have to decide on mandates. no question, vaccines offer the best protection. as always, as many said on the show this morning and we said over the years, it is not just one silver bullet, right, it is vaccines, yes, they should also have vigorous testing protocols and indoor masking. and something we said in public health so many years, make the right thing to do the easy thing to do. we should make vaccines easy to access, equitably accessible. do the same as testing. my company is committed to do that. we should also continue to give information on mask wearing. it is all those layers of mitigation that are critical. >> and doctor, obviously we have

to get that message out not just to trump supporters which of course we talked about overwhelming majority of the time and also we saw the mayor of boston saying something pretty remarkable about vaccines yesterday. there are several segments of society who are still vaccine resistant. how do we reach out to all of them? >> well, that's an important part. i think early on in the pandemic we did a lot of lumping, we put them all into one category and we should make sure that we are more targeted as we move forward. joe, we're about to enter the cold and flu season but we don't have to panic even with delta, but we should prepare. it is about trusted messengers, it is about easy access to vaccines, meeting people where they are, making sure there are

appropriate testing strategies and tests are available. something we need to talk more about, i am a psychiatrist, i like the surface elephants in the room, unfortunately we're seeing vaccine cards that are fake or fraudulent and we will probably see that in other areas. it is important to make sure that our tests are verified and validated and the administration will have to figure that out about vaccines. >> all right. what an important field. i would love to talk more about that, thank you for being with us as always. great to have you here. thank you for your reporting. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up coverage right