in just a couple horsepower the senate convenience on the $1 trillion infrastructure back will package following days of negotiations. senate majority leader chuck schumer is expected to hold a procedural vote to wind down debates and get this bill passed as soon as possible. while congress has been mostly focused on legislation that would build up our nation we're continuing to learn more about how hard the former president tried to tear apart the fabric of you are our democracy. in addition to blatant lies about the 2020 presidential election there was a far more insidious plot to actually overturn the results going on in the background. just days before the deadly january 6th assault on the capitol, one of the expresident's top department officials was circulating a draft letter that would have helped georgia republicans overturn biden's victory in that state. according to teerms reported by abc news and not yet verified by

msnbc or nbc news, jeffrey clark, the acting head of the justice department civil division at the time wrote emails that would have laid out a road map and given permission for georgia republicans to subvert the election results. the message intended to tell georgia election officials that the justice department was investigating, quote, irregularities in the presidential election and wanted state legislators to go into a special session, quote, pertaining to the appointment of presidential electors. that letter would have essentially allowed georgia republicans to go against the will of the voters there and award the state's electoral college votes to trump. and clarke didn't just draft letters like this to georgia. congressman rambling iaaf krish that murthy revealed this week to me that clarke drafted similar letters to send to all six states that the ex-president lied about being stolen from him georgia, arizona, pennsylvania,

michigan, wisconsin and nevada. it turns out the president's endless rants and lies about vote are fraud were part of a larger scheme to overturn the results. the only reasons the letters didn't get sent is because the then acting attorney general jeffrey rosen and the acting deputy attorney general richard donohue wouldn't sign off on them. but what we're learning and see if the ex-president had had one of his less scrupulous cronies installed at the department of justice this whole plot might have worked. he didn't need to overturn five states election results he only needed one state. and enough would have likely followed suit. there weren't and currently aren't any guard rails in place that would have prevented in from happening. and unless the federal government takes immediate and decisive action, the next coup attempt may not fail. weemt now is anna palmer founder and ceo of punch bowl news. msnbc contributor and best selling author of "the hill to die on, the battle for congress

and future of trump's america." renae graham joining me, a associate editor for "the boston globe." thanks for being with us today. let me start with you, anna, this reporting, for those of us following closely what was happening january 6th what trump was up to and listened to the phone call with brad raffensperger in georgia, this is in news this week, every day we hear of concrete and specific empties to actually overturn the election results >> yeah it's a constant drip, right. to your point we've heard about it. there's been little pieces coming out here and there. but this week i think to your point is very accurate, that we are with hearing a -- much more concrete efforts that was systematic. trying to go forward and push forward. i think what's going to be -- what got my attention on capitol hill what's interesting is what

does the january 6th commission and committee they are going to investigate into this? are they getting into this or stay more closely aligned on what happened january 6th? because this predates that but could help the investigative and subpoena power to uncover more >> renae, part of the smu is the republicans in congress are trying to rewrite the story of january 6th, each day we get more evidence that it wasn't only that but worse. at some point mainstream republicans have to divorce themselves from donald trump and his cronies and their attempt to overturn the election and represent something else to the american voters. this doesn't seem it gets better for republicans over the course of the next few months >> it's not getting better. but i don't know that it's making a difference in what republicans are doing or the way they sort of fastened themselves to donald trump. the important thing to understand about this and looking at january 6th is not

just what happened on that day of the capitol but everything that happened before that. i think initially when trump lost the election there was this idea that he was a sore looser. what people miss and we realize now was there was this broad, organized plot to overthroe the election and democracy. i think any don't care. i think what they care about is winning. as the details continue to come out, i don't know that it's going to make a difference how republicans behave and how they react to what happened on january 6th >> how does that play out, anna, in terms of voters? there can't possibly be a plurality of republicans over the long-term in america who are okay with elections that are not won the right way or voters shut out, or are there? >> i think it's -- we're in a tricky time here, right, where

you have disinformation around what actually happened in the election, where -- what is a fair and true election? clearly there is a lot of people that are trump supporters still believe he won the election. and the president continues to perpetrate that law and talk about it out on the road and foment that misinformation. the question i think is really what do congressional republicans do? what does the next generation of republicans who are going to try and run in 2024 for president -- do they continue to tie themselves to donald trump where most of the republican party is right now with those running in 2022? they're very close for the most part to donald trump. because that's where the effort and real energy is in the party. it's not maybe in terms of making some of these other changes or kind of looking at what actually happened and what should be happening at the state level right now. because you look at what republican state legislatures are doing. they are trying to restrict voting rights as much as

possible. >> ren aearlier this morning i spoke with a state texas representative talking to jeff myrhhkyly and i talked to reverend william barber and making getting arrested fashionable again. the texas republicans are glad that their efforts are the getting to a bill in washington. barber and progress he was are saying do not water down the voting rights bills that we would have had. are progressives okay with a weaker deal but one that is bipartisan or one that at least has broad democratic support >> i agree. i mean with the reverend barber. the issues we are looking at are simply too important to water down. the thing we have to always remember about, say, january 6th, you can't talk about the coup in past tense because it never ended. all it did was move from the

u.s. capitol to stays houses in texas, florida and georgia and other states. there is too much at stake here. there is too much on the table. if you water it down -- look, we already know what's happened to the voting rights act since 2013 in the supreme court. there is nothing more you can do to water it down and still keep voting rights intact. so i think it's great that, you know, there are the ideas being -- sort of bounced around in washington. but you have to stick with what's important. you have to keep voting rights intact, otherwise we don't have a democracy. >> to those of you who don't know what kind of issues we face, that video we were playing is just one reflection of the fact that in lots of parts of america people wait in line for long times to vote. and that's just the least of the problems that a lot of people have voting in america. that's thanks to both of you renae graham is a columnist at the "boston globe." anna palmer an msnbc contributor and best selling author, "the

hill to die on." a book that gets more relevant with each passing day. thanks to both of you. joining me now is stacie plaskett pb serving on several house committees including waist and means, overvieth and government reform and agricultural committee. representative, good to see you. thank you for being with us. i don't know we've had a week like last week in which we learned so much about the things that led up to january 6th. the remarkable empties that underpinned that effort to undermine democracy. having been as close as you were as an impeachment manager. the new evidence -- i imagine you suspected some of it. but knowing it is something else >> indeed. i think as we continue to hear more information it's going to add additional meat onto the bone of what the impeachment manager said from the beginning,

that donald trump should have been convicted of an attempted coup on our democracy, on our government, that his sole purpose of january 6th, even before that, right -- we talked about the things he did before the election to try and retain power, to try and remain and create a throne of american democracy. this is fascinating. >> i was speaking with congressman the other day and one of the things that congressman murthy talked about. the guard rails to stoop everything, the president reacting to the attorney general, the department of justice possibly sending letters to various states. there is actually nothing that stops that from happening except good people in the way. >> exactly. and that includes political appointees as well as what we called- when i was a political

appointee, we were the christmas help, right? the people there, the career individuals who are willing to put their reputation and their livelihood on the line and saying no at various points. and without that i think that we would be in a very different place and having a very different discussion right now. we'd be talking about a totalitarian government. >> how do you make that clear to people? because things are so partisan and polarized there are people otherwise reasonable who believe donald trump's view that the whole term was a witch hunt, the impeachments were a witch hunt, let it go. it's over he's been penalized. he got impeached. yet you could in theory impeachment -- joyce vance makes the point there are four criminal prosecutions we've had based on the information of the last few weeks >> sure, the indictments of him along with other individuals. i'm grateful we have a justice department putting a little transparency on what happened leading up to january 6th and

even there after. i'm sure there are additional things that we're going to learn that not only took place at the justice department but let's not forget the department of defense, what the president was attempting to use our military for his own purposes. >> i want to ask you about voting rights. the -- the -- the attorney general has spoken out saying congress has to do something about this. we do think there is some kind of a deal being worked out that might at least have the support of 50 democrats, margin and sinema, maybe or maybe not and republicans. there is criticism from the progressive wing of the democratic party that watering down voting rights is not something that they will go for. >> you know, and the same way that the voting rights acts were taken care of in the 1960s where lyndon b. johnson and others recognized that there were some voeing rights provisions that they could care in the first instance, and our president johnson then utilizing other

actions, bloody sunday and others to have the moral authority to push through on the others. so much of that would not be done, not just with negotiations of congress, but americans who are out on the streets, peacefully protesting and demanding from their members of congress certain things are done. we are the tip of the spear in congress doing the work to ensure that the framework and the legality is there through legislation. but we can't do that without the continued momentum of american people. so i'm so happy to see different groups marching in the streets, congressional black caucus members being arrested. i think those are the things that are going to give us the negotiating tool and the leverage to be able to get anything passed in the senate >> representative stacey plaskett good to see you as always. of the united states virgin islands >> thank you >>. still ahead, we're seeing a

surge in covid-19 cases. in the battle against the disease, multiple republican governors line up on the wrong side of the fight against covid. how one local community is fighting back. and putting country first. the power and importance of whistleblowers to a healthy democracy, and why here right matters. retired army lieutenant colonel alexander vindman next, here on msnbc. l alexander vindman next, here on msnbc. ♪ when technology is easier to use... ♪ barriers don't stand a chance. ♪ that's why we'll stop at nothing to deliver our technology as-a-service. ♪ with relapsing forms of ms... there's a lot to deal with. not just unpredictable relapses. all these other things too. it can all add up.

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george washington had his hands full mcmahoning the continental army. but do you know what killed 90% of his troops? diseases. george washington ordered all troops to be inoculated against small pox. our young country depended on more than firing bullets. it depended on taking shots. the kind of shots that save lives. in the summer of 1974 a woman named karen silkwood put the truth above all else including her safety and he will wellbeing. hevs a chemical technician at a plutonium plant in oklahoma. she was a labor union representative and regularly raised concerns about health and safety practices at the nuclear plant. in fact silkwood herself was a walking, talking testament to the plant safety failures. one day she conducted a routine self-check and found her body

contained more than 400 times of legal limit of plutonium. if she was contaminated so were others. she testified about the extreme negligence at the plan to the atomic energy commission but also wanted the public to know about kerr mcgee's blatant disregard for health and safety. she assembled a bipeder at the full of the data. documentation company papers. arranged a meeting with a "new york times" reporter. november 13th, 1974 she attended a union meeting according to witnesses who who were there she had the bind they are hand. after the meeting she got in the honda and began the 30 mile drive to meet with the reporter. but karen silkwood never arrived. she was found dead in her car on the side of the road. somehow crashed into a concrete structure with another other cars involved. police ruled the crash an accident and autopsy found drugs in her system so said she fell asleep behind the wheel probably. bup investigators found skid marks and a dent on her rear

bumper leading to speculation she was run off the road by someone who didn't want her to spill the secrets publicly. as for the binder witnesses say she left the meeting with, with all the evidence for the reporter, it was nowhere to be found. this is an extreme example of how potentially dangerous choosing to be a whistle-blower can be. most whitley blowers don't end up dead but some end up in prison and fired and blacklisted. many are harassed bullied and stalked and face a life of isolation and in some cases depression. being a whistle-blower is thankless. for most whistle-blowers the risk outweigh the reward and it takes grit to get through suffering on a phone call july 25th, 2019, the now disgraced former president of the united states said to the president of ukraine, i would like you to do us a favor. it was a blatant abuse of power and contrary to the laws of the land. and lieutenant colonel alexander vindman knew that. so he spoke up. he did sfo in defense of his country while working in an

administration widely known for bullying and retaliation, because he felt in his bones that the president of the united states was doing something very wrong that was not in the public interest. in part, as a result of his actions, that president was impeached. and subsequently voted out of office. but vindman paid a heavy personal and professional toll. he was defied a promotion to full colonel. forced to retire from the army. his brother who had nothing to do with the impeachment was fired. vindman knew doing the right thing may cost him. he decided to do it anyway as he testified before the united states congress during the impeachment hearing here meaning here in america here, right matters. s you don't have to choose just one adventure.

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dad, my sitting here in the u.s. capitol talking to u.s. officials is proof you made the

right decision 40 years ago and come to the united states of america in search of a better life for our family. do not worry, i'll be fine for telling the truth. congressman, because this is america, the country i served and defended, that all of my brothers have served and here right matters. >> retired army lieutenant alexander vindman became a household late in late 2019 after he testified at a hearing for donald trump's first impeachment pmt director of european fares air force for the national security councils under the trump administration. as such he listened in on the quid pro quo called trump made to the ukrainian president asking him to dig up dirt on joe biden and hunter. despite the cost of speaking up vindman did what needed to be done. he schoes to tell the truth. donald trump's abuse of power in the events leading up to the impeachment are the subject of vindman's book released the past

week. called here right matters, an american story. alexander vindman joins me now. colonel vindman good to see you again. we are book ending this week. we start with with a conversation early this we can. at the end of the conversation i asked you, was it worth it? you have now had a chance though talk to lots and lots of people and get a lot of feedback on your book. i ask you again, was the decision to report what happened on the phone call and testify at the impeachment of donald trump, was it worth it? >> you know, ali, i sat up most of this morning, didn't sleep well last night thinking about that question. and there was little i would do -- there is nothing i wouldn't do to defend this country. but the personal cost was immense. if i just stayed silent, had not reported that phone call, the president would not have been impeached. and my life would not have been thrown into turmoil. i would still have a manipulator

career, still have the relationships that had fallen apart over the subsequent weeks and months. i wouldn't have created a massive amount of anxiety in my family. so there was a great personal cost. but i still stick to the idea that it was worth it because i think i served my nation. >> did it help you that people have come out and realized the role you played and realize now that you've written the book, what it was about your background and your father and your -- the nature of your life that caused you to do that? has the support -- this is important because i just spoke about whistle blowers and how difficult it is for them. has the support helped to shore up the fact that that was the right decision? >> not really. i think it was -- the it's my own convictions i did the right thing and the immediate support of my family. frankly there is a deep complacency in america about the threats this country faces. on the other side, on the far

right, represented by president trump, by his proxies, by tucker carlson, we have a growing fascism. ultraright fascism in which there is a will to suppress freedoms. there is an extreme view towards dictatorial regimes. and there is the the response from the rest of america, rest of society. we were very, very fortunate that 81 million americans voted trump out of office. but things have not returned to normal. we still face those same fears. tucker carlson this week visited victor orband, a fascist leader in hungary and touting what kind of government he wants, this extremely conservative, limited freedoms, limited prosperity, just to the elites.

that's somehow touted as a model for the united states. that is shocking. and we just now- we're not awake to those threats right now >> one -- a number of things happened since we spoke on monday night, including increasing evidence of what donald trump and his conies were trying to do to overturn the election. letters that -- that would have gone from the justice department to six state election officials in an attempt to overturn the election, pressure on the acting attorney general and his deputy to declare the election -- election corrupt. and i have been struggling with this all week, that not for -- but for people like you or people who were approached by donald trump, who refused to do his bidding, there aren't guard rails to protect against the kind of damage that these people were prepared to do to american democracy. >> i think that's right. i think we have very, very strong institutions in the united states built over centuries and decades.

and populated by amazing, wonderful people. but we frankly don't have guard rails against a corrupt chief executive willing to go to any lengths. the most important factor that probably prevented us from going competely into a land where right no longer mattered is that the chief executive, donald trump, was really just simply not capable. another, more capable authoritarian leader in the ilk of tucker carlson, somebody more sophisticated, somebody with a following like that we could end up in a completely different place. we need to wake up to the real threats facing this country. and applebaum, a brilliant journalist and author writes beautifully about the back sliding of democracy. we see that now. what we need to do, the american public needs to wake up. american public needs to recognize that this country is it still under threat and be

activated to defend this nation. and we're not there just yet >> an important warning from somebody like you who has seen it from the inside and who has lived through it. retired army lieutenant colonel alexander vindman. thank you. i appreciate this second conversation. he is the author of "here, right matters, an american story." 17 months into the pandemic, florida setting daily case records. it appears the republican governor sides with the deadly disease. the ongoing mask fight next on "velshi." next on "velshi. my credit card debt. i needed just one simple way to pay it all off. it was an easy decision to apply with sofi loans, just based on the interest rate and how much i would be saving. there was only one that stood out and one that actually made sense and that was sofi personal loans. it felt so freeing. i felt like i was finally out of this neverending trap of interest and payments and debt. ♪♪

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as the u.s. grapples with covid-19 delta variant, florida's republican governor ron desantis prioritizes freedom from masks as if his fellow citizens are not tormented by covid-19. this week florida reported the high number of daily and weekly cases since the beginning of the pandemic. desantis is adamant about attack being mask mandates for children headed back to school. the anti-mask rules forced school districts to fight back in the name of public safety. earlier this week in a represent you'dation of desantis anti-mask mandate, the county school board in northern florida voted to require all students to wear masks during the first two weeks of school. as a result they face the state pulling funding. joining me now is the chair of the county school board. dr. mcneely.

thank you for joining us. this is a tough conversation. because i've spoken to school leaders and hospital leaders. none of them are looking for a fight with the state. none of them are looking to get funding pulled. but you and your colleagues decided that there is a more critical imperative here, the safety of the children. >> absolutely. we are certainly concerned about the safety and wellbeing of our students. that is paramount in our thoughts. and so we have mandated masking for the first two weeks of school. we begin on august the 10th. and so for the first two weeks of school we would like all students to have masks on. after those first two weeks, then we will reevaluate -- the board will reevaluate and to see if the surge has decreased or increased. and based on that, we will make

our decision. >> how big a deal was the and i mask mandate from the state, as you deliberatesed this? how much of a worry is it that funding will be cut? have you had any word it's going to happen? or do you know you've gone up against a governor who said you can't do what you are doing? >> well one of the things in the executive order from governor desantis, there was no strict policy as of yet that funding will be withheld. we are hoping that he will not comply and go along with in decision, that is all over the united states, what our governor is doing. but we are hoping that now with the executive order of parental rights, that our parents who would not consider masking, they will now have an opportunity to do a couple of things.

one, an exemption from their physician on our exemption form, or they can take advantage of the hope scholarship voucher, which will allow them to use it to go to private schools or even leave our school district. >> you've actually talked about the fact that you are in danger of losing lives. this was really -- you're not looking to be defiant. are you actually scared about what can happen if this is spreading? we're hearing about spreads in florida, in fact, where children's hospitals are being overcome by the number of people in there. that younger people are getting this infection. and your students in your schools in some cases are too young to be vaccinated. >> absolutely. i'm very afraid of what could possibly happen if the surge continues. we would have many illnesses. and also deaths.

i was reluctant to say that. but that's what's happening. and so very recently we lost two employees last weekend. and so we have quite a few employees who are now quarantined. we already have a shortage of instructional staff, administrators, personnel that are not instructional. and so if this surge, this virus continues, guess what's going to happen to us? and i say it all the happen. we will be up a creek without a paddle. we need this virus to be pulled in. and so we are going to do basically everything in our power to make sure that our children, faculty, staffs and the community are all safe. >> dr. mcnealy thank you for

your time. we appreciate it. dr. mcnealy is the chair of the school board there. the united states reports again more than 100,000 cases of covid a day. the numbers continue to increase. joining me now is tiffany cross of the cross connection. instead of attacking the issue head on, republicans turn to a very familiar escape goat about the surge in covid, immigrants. >> yeah, good morning, ali. look, honestly we are not surprised that republicans turn to the favorite scapegoat, blaming the rise of covid on immigrants. in the state of florida they are setting new records for positive cases ali while the state's governor, florida man, trump acolyte ron desantis. he suggests the immigrants coming over the southern border not a word on the maga crowd. and greg abbott spews the same nonsense. this guy even issued an executive order telling state troopers to pull over drivers

transporting migrants who pose a risk of carrying the virus. so a judge thankfully blocked that order. but we're dig floog that and more. all that on the cross-connection this week. it's not all doom and gloom. we have positive news to talk about as well >> it never is all doom and gloom. we appreciate that. nice to see you back. make sure you watch that starting at 10:00 a.m. eastern right after this. embattled new york governor andrew cuomo vows not to resign following major allegations of sexual harassment. that could be the least of his worries. a live report is next here on velshi. ext here on velshi ♪ when technology is easier to use... ♪ barriers don't stand a chance. ♪ that's why we'll stop at nothing to deliver our technology as-a-service. ♪

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yes, please! neuriva. think bigger. qanon reappearing on a ballot near you. this is dangerous stuff. qanon lies and people die. right now, fueled in part by qanon adherents a massive covid 19 disinformation campaign convinces americans not to get vaccinated. it's time for the republican party to expunge conspiracy theorists from their ranks for the sake of democracy. this morning blocks are continuing to fall from underneath andrew cuomo. just over two hours the albany county sheriff is expected to hold a press conference after one of cuomo ace former arids filed an official criminal complaint against the governor. the woman identified at executive assistant one in the new york attorney general's

report, told investigators that governor cuomo groped her multiple times, including at the governor's mansion in albany in 2019. and new year's eave when this sf was taken. she filed a criminal complaint earlier this week. important to note cuomo has not been charged with crimes. he has disputed the allegations and denied all wrong doing. joining me now is new york 1s news reporter gloria pasmino. what do we expect today >> it's a key development this this saga ali, because we are going to find out what the albany county sheriff says as they will have in terms of this complaint that has been filed in their office. we don't know if this is going to be enough to make an arrest. but the fact that there is a criminal complaint that has been filed definitely raises the level of -- the level of risk the governor is facing in all of

this. we are expecting to get detail in the next couple of hours. but it's definitely a new -- it adds a new layer to what the governor faces at this point >> gloria what's your reporting about what he is thinking at the moment? this is a guy who built up a remarkable network of support at the local, state and the national level within the democratic party, even with some republicans. if all seems to have evaporated. >> yeah, his support really has significantly eroded over the last couple days. i think it bears stressing. he has lost support from a major labor union. obviously the president called on him to resign. and the state democratic -- the state democratic party chairman here in new york, jay jacobs called on him to resign. publicly speaking, the governor right now has nobody on his corner. but this is a governor who is willing to put up a fight. and i think we saw fro his lawyers yesterday that that's exactly what they hope to do.

they hope to make an argument that the governor hasn't had a chance to defend himself, should be able to tell his quote, unquote, side of the story. and they're trying to do claxton that. >> thank you for your reporting on this and thank you for your time this morning. new york 1 political reporter. the founder of the me too movement and someone i rely upon heavily how to solve this issue. terrana burke joins the conversation after the break. e. terrana burke joins the conversation after the break that i should get used to people staring. so i did. it's okay, you can stare. when you're a two-time gold medalist, it comes with the territory. healthy habits come in all sizes. like little walks. and, getting screened for colon cancer.

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governor andrew cuomo is now accused of sexually harassing 11 different women, including nine state employees, according to an investigation by the new york attorney general. and right now, at least five district attorneys from around the state are looking into the allegations. governor cuomo hasn't been charged with anything. he disputes the allegations and he denies all wrongdoing. joining me now is activist and community organizer, tarana burke. she founded the me too movement back in 2006 to raise awareness of sexual harassment and abuse. and her work focuses on ending sexual violence and creating resources for sexual assault survivors. tarana, thank you for being with us again. i've been thinking in the last couple of weeks, given all we've learned since, you know, in the last five years or so, through the prominence of the me too movement, how would you have preferred for this to have unfolded once these allegations started to come to light. >> well, the way it unfolded to

me makes sense. we first heard these allegations several months ago, and then there was an investigation, and it was a very thorough investigation, according to what we've seen in this report. and so i think this is an example of what people have been asking for, right? there's no -- it's not a legal process, necessarily. so there's not due process. but there was definitely thought put into and very careful investigation into these allegations before this report was released. >> are you surprised at what the governor's reaction and response has been to it so far or not? >> i would say i'm more disgusted. his response has been really, really primal and just not thoughtful and it shows so much -- it just shows how much people haven't learned in the last four years and that power is as power does. >> you know, we've talked about this a lot, you and i. and you have never really been about vindictiveness or

retribution. you do believe women and want women to be heard and believed. in fact, you've talked about empowerment through empathy. that's where this seems to have broken down in this particular instance. in the response doesn't feel like it suits the investigation. the response from the governor seems to be -- everybody has misinterpreted me. how do you address that? >> i think that's so harmful. because the fact of the matter is, you had 11 people who came forward and said, you harmed me. and at the end of the day, that's what happened. you can't dispute somebody saying, you have harmed me. this behavior has harmed me. as opposed to starting off by saying, i didn't intend to arm you or i apologize for harming you, it is -- i didn't, i didn't, i didn't. and that's what we see over and over again. if you would have taken a real leader would have taken a position to say, i recognize my

power and i recognize that it's easy to abuse my power and that seems to be what i have done here, we could have taken so many different roles, but he's taken the typical thing which is, i didn't do this. you can't say you didn't do this when somebody says you've harmed them. >> when this happens, when it goes down this road where he didn't say what you would have preferred he'd said, does that encourage others to come forward with high-profile people, or discourage them because they throw their hands up and say, this was an actual investigation by the attorney general of new york state and still doesn't move that particular ball forward in getting a response that seems more reasonable, given all that we have learned. >> this is the tricky part. why we can't come forward to have a response. this is to have the truth live outside of ourselves. the victory is that these 11 women found community, came together, and that they were heard. not just believed, but they were heard.

and what they came forward and said was investigated. to me, cuomo's response is what a lot of powerful men do. and they can't find healing or catharsis in his response, but we have moved the needle in having these claims being investigated, having the media respond to it the way they have. having the people stand up and say, this is not okay. the victory really is in that. >> there has been in the last several years, a number of examples of real accountability. over people who have taken responsibility, of people who have been appropriately punished or addressed for what they've done, but there examples where the needle hasn't moved. the responses are the same you would have heard in 2006 when you started me too. as you look back to all of these years, do you fundamentally think that there has been progress, that they are further ahead, notwithstanding the

current moment. >> i think there's definitely been progress. because, again, i don't think that -- look at what happened when the cosby allegations happened, or the fox news allegations happened and how those survivors were heard. or the weinstein, you know, allegations, even. i think we have progressed, because survivors have a bigger voice mow. and they're taken more seriously. but really, it's about culture shift. and so we won't see powerful people really be accountable until we shift the culture that says that you can't harass people with impunity. you can't be a powerful person and this is not what leadership looks like, right? when we redefine what a leader is, and that includes people who don't abuse their power, then we will really have a shift. but we've certainly progressed. >> and some of that leadership shift may not happen as effectively with older leaders, but are you satisfied that there's a new generation that understands that this offices, workplaces, leadership and power all looks different going forward? >> i hope so.

i think it's important that people ache this seriously and address me too and the movement and the movement to end sexual violence seriously. we all have to be committed to shifting culture in our everyday lives and disrupting rape culture, because it creates the environment for harassment like this to happen and for powerful people to do it with impunity. >> it's not a spectator sort. tarana, thank you for joining us. tarana burke is a founder of the me too movement. that does it for me. thank you for watching. catch me here tomorrow morning 8:00 to 10:00 p.m. eastern on "velshi." "the cross connection" with tiffany cross begins right now.

>> get vaccinated. this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. so please get vaccinated. >> the texas state legislature prepares to gavel in another special section in an attempt to with a six month high. and that's just this week. and this time the epicenter is my neck of the woods, reporting more than 134,000 new cases this. >> if there's any silver lining to be h