jeffrey rosen and top d.o.j. officials and told them to, quote, just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and republican congressmen. leave the rest to me. according to notes taken by richard donahue, the principle associate deputy attorney general who was also in on that meeting. now, the very next day, december 28th we learn trump loyalist and former head of the d.o.j. civil rights division jeffrey clark was drafting letters that would have laid out a road map for republicans in georgia and five other states to flip the election outcome. ten days later a violent group of the expresident's supporters attacked the capitol in a desperate attempt to prevent congress from certifying the election results. joining me now, katie benner of the "new york times," he's an msnbc contributor. katie, you have literally been piecing all this together because you have been reporting

on the justice department's pursuit of the january 6th perpetra perpetrators. now you are seeing the other side of the picture what was actually going on in at the highest levels of the justice department that was sort of fuelling that fire of the big lie. there was an actual attempt to have states overturn their results? >> that's correct. we started this reporting back in january. we found that there had been a lot of pressure from the white house to have the acting slate of officials including the acting attorney general jeff rosen and the acting deputy attorney general richard donahue to both investigate voter fraud, allegations that had already been vetted and found to be not credible. they were also being pushed to make some sort of public declaration that the election was in doubt, the kind of declaration that would seed the public mind with doubt. they were being asked to go before the supreme court and see if the supreme court would vacate the results of the election something the justice

officials could not do. they were asked to write these letters both by president and within someone within the division, acting attorney general jeff clark. there was tons of pressures. it was the things that reporters were paling out in jab. through the senate judiciary investigation and the inspector general's investigation we are starting to see documents and evidence emerge to support not only that reporting but to really fill in those blanks including jeffrey rosen's testimony of the last two days before the inspector general and before the senate judiciary committee in which he details the pressure campaign that both the white house and his own subordinate placed on him in order to try to get georgia officials to invalidate the election results. >> the tale of two jeffs that everybody doesn't know that well. jeff rosen was after bill barr. and one assumes that when trump

appointed him to that position -- trump's only thoughts in those days were overcoming the election. he probably assumed that jeff rosen would at least be spoetive in that effort since bill barr was not. jeff clark, jeff rosen's subordinate played a key role in this. who is jeff clark? why was he involved? >> he was a justice department official. he headed the environmental natural resources division near the end of the administration. he was also promoted to be the acting head of the civil division, the division that litigates the united states's position in courts. unbeknownst to all the other officials he had been in contact with president trump. we know he was put in touch with the president by representative scott perry of pennsylvania and others. nobodies in the justice department understood what those conversations were about, didn't know they were happening until the end of december when jeff clark started to approach the

acting attorney general, the acting deputy attorney general and others asking what the justice department could do to publicly declare the results of the election invalid. this was a shock to his colleagues. they felt they had remember vetted these claims. they were on every front pushing back against white house efforts to get them to make these public statements. and unbeknownst to them somebody in their own ranks can be quietly speaking to the president about doing society. it led to a series of confrontations at the end of the year. then it led to jeff rosen being informed he could lose his job, that the president was thinking about replacing him with jeff clark, something we now know from notes that richard donahue took had been on the president's mind for days before january 3rd when there was a showdown at the oval office between the two jeffs and a variety of other justice department officials who informed the president they were to remove jeff rosen and replace him with jeff clark that they would all quit.

which would subsume the justice department and the white house with chaos and take the public's eye about trump's claims about false election. it helped convince the president not to make that move. but again it is another example of how close the republic came to being pushed into chaos that would have further called into doubt the results of the election. >> this is just wild. we have known each other a lot of years. this is just wild. i encourage people to follow your reporting on this. this is what real reporting is. you have figured out every part of the story from what was going on behind the scenes to the stuff that happened that caused people to go to the united states congress to try to overturn that election by preventing the certification of the results. this whole story knits together to look more and more like an attempted koop every day. katie benner is a pulitzer prize winning reporter with the "new york times." joining me now, jennifer

rubin, an opinion writer for the "washington post" and the author of resistance, how women saved democracy from donald trump, which comes out september 21st. jennifer, i am not speechless much. i talk for a living. we all kind of knew a lot was going on behind the scenes and, but the thing that shocked me the most when i was talking to roger -- about all this stuff and the fact that jeff clark was actually ready to send letters like this to six different states on paragraph of the president to get joe biden's victory in those states overturned. the thing that shocks me the most is that there is no guardrail existing in government but for the good will of the people who said i will not go along with this to have prevented the coup from happening. >> we were commendent on a series of people doing the right thing. brad wrassenberger, the secretary of state in georgia, whether it was jeffrey rosen, whether it was mr. donahue

taking notes to document what was going on. so we came perilously close. and you are right in that there is no real systematic way of curtailing this. and we come back to an obscure law passed in the 19th century, the electoral count act which really specifies from how we get to the votes on election day through the electoral college to the revelation of the votes in the electoral college, and then to the eventually inauguration of the president. and we have to look back at this, not only hold those accountable, not only look at the crimes that were committed but also look to that document and figure out a way in which this is in essence, coup-proof. >>ia yeah. >> that we can construct guard rails so it is not dependent on good will, that there is an automatic nature to it. that states didn't flip the

popular vote. that there isn't a justice department that pressures a state legislature to do this. we need to take a hard look. in katie's reporting i am more convinced than ever that donald trump and the people who were enabling him have to be prosecuted. the reason why they have to be prosecuted is we have the make sure this never happens again. if donald trump is not prosecuted, why wouldn't be or any other person of his ilk try this again? we need to determine this is a crime, a fraud against the united states. i certainly hope merrick garland is taking in all this information. he, too, is knitting all the pieces together. and we will come out with some type of criminal liability for the expresident. >> you would think with each one of these new revelations, people who are tacit supporters would say we are not into this, this dictatorship, authoritarianism,

peopling turning elections over. tucker carlson was hob knobbing with victor or the em. you said republicans law and order hypocrisy is off the charts. they pine for a strong man who can wield the power of the state against the maga basis political foes and who could deploy the police to coddle and each harbor white supreme cysts. you say in other words they want a tin pot dictatorship that would enforce them and their maga tribe. how did we get here. >> i grew up thinking of republicans as supporting law and order. how did we get to the point where they are supporting someone who is antidemocratic? >> it is remarkable. this is the party of lincoln, and it has gone off the charts. the best analogy i can make is

now the republican party is the party the developments we have seen in eastern europe where liberal democracy took a right turn and wound up in this pop you list regime. the -- exudes power, attacks the press, quashes independence of his own party in a state legislature -- national legislature, rather. this is kind of where we have gone. the old republican has been -- the old republican party has been replaced by something that looks like a right-wing authoritarian pop you list party of the party of the time we have seen in europe in the 1930s and the type we see there today. it is seriously off the tracks. what is even more scary is that there are so many more people who understand this, who are fully aware of the implications,

and are too chick tony speak up. we've got liz complainy and adam kinzinger and that's it. the rest of the party seems to have gone along with this. we are still in a very perilous time. i was foolish enough to believe that after donald trump was defeated, well, we've gotten through that, we are into the safe zone. >> yeah. >> and boy, are we not. >> we are not -- >> i think that's the lesson of the reporting coming out. >> that's the thing people have to remember. jennifer is the author of resistance, how women saved democracy from donald trump. this will be available for purchased in september. in a few hours the senate is set to reconvene and continue working to pass joe biden's $1 trillion bipartisan infrastructure plan. the bill passed a procedural hurdle last night after 18 republicans joined with democrats to end debate over the package and advance it. a lone senator, republican bill

haggerty says there is no reason to rush. joining me, ben ray lujan. senator, good to see you. what do you say to senator haggerty's comment that, no reason to rush? >> as leader schumer has said, we will get this done. it's just a question of when. whether it is today, tomorrow, or tuesday. but i'm confident that the clock that has been established allows the united states senate to pass a bipartisan infrastructure bill and get this over to the house. and upon action from them, it will get sent to president biden for signature with important investments for people all across america including in my home state of new mexico. >> you know, on one hand donald trump has been sending messages out to republican senators saying don't support this. mcconnell is telling republicans

slow walk this a little bit. what difference does it make? in the end, the bill will pass, people will enjoy it. and like the republicans didn't support the rescue bill, they will still take credit for it one way or another, roads will get built and bridges will be fixed. >> i was in those meetings as a member of the u.s.out house of representatives with speaker pelosi and schumer at the white house. when we came together and trump said let's get an infrastructure package. i was also there when he blew up, didn't even silt at the table and took the entire package down. we should have done this anything. nonetheless it takes leadership. that's why i am grateful for what president biden is doing. he laid out an aggressive agenda and bringing us together in a bipartisan way to pass infrastructure. roads, bridges, water -- people across the country don't have access to drinking water. and something that's important to me, building broadband, connecting more people with fast

affordable internet across america is going to be critically important. again, there are at least 17 republicans that joined us. i think 18 with one of the votes over the weekend to be able to move this package. there were five republicans, five democratic members that got to go to frame this working with the president. and again, we will pass this package. it is just a matter of whether it is today, tomorrow, or tuesday, but this will pass the united states senate. >> it doesn't matter if it is bipartisan because the road doesn't care if you are a republican or democrat. you and your house colleagues are thinking about this. some of your house colleague does not want this bill done before the larger reconciliation bill. but mathematically and according to the calendar it looks like it get done first and some democrats say they are going to lose leverage on the other bill, that republicans really don't support and is broader and talked about human

infrastructure. >> this week i also expect the senate to pass top lines giving instructions to committees and both bills will go over to the house. i imagine the house will take both pieces of legislation up and we will continue working through the august recess on the details of the budget resolution plan so it will be ready for action when we return from the recess. we keep working. our committees will work. our members will work. i will be working. our staff will be working to get this done. it is important to me as well that while we are making infrastructure investments in the bipartisan package that we also, each and every one of us in the u.s. senate and the house understand that we need a lower prescription drug prices. weeks expand benefits for medicare beneficiaries by getting them vision care, hearing care, and dental care. we can expand the child tax credit. all the families are influenced

by the child tax credit today. i see the urgency. i see the importance. i have confidence we will send both bills to the president for signature. >> democratic senator ben ray lujan of new mexico. we have a full plate still to come including the battle in michigan between republicans pushing for a cyber ninja style sham audit and another covid-19 surge in sturgis, south dakota. a you need an ecolab scientific clean here. and here. which is why the scientific expertise that helps operating rooms stay clean now helps the places you go too. look for the ecolab science certified seal.

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last summer when most of us were working to stop the spread we witnessed a super tread isser, the annual sturgis motorcycle rally in south dakota. in the ten day event, health officials believe it played a huge role in cases that later

showed up across 20 different states. this year, sturgis rally attendees are proving they didn't learn anything from last year drawing an even bigger crowd and a surge in cases of the delta variant. kristi noem has stood behind the measures that doctors and scientists say are needed to beat this virus back. joining us now, gary grumbach, from sturgis, south dakota. what's going on there? >> if you talk to the visitors coming into town they are thrilled to be here. there is not concern about covid. but if you talk to the locals, they are not happy. sturgis is a sleepy town during most of the year. during these ten days 700,000 people are expected. they are going to be going to the restaurants, to the stores,

trading patches, checking out each other's bikes and seeing folks that they only see when they come to the rally because they are coming into frown across the country and around the world. that's the problem as relates to coronavirus. folks are worried they are going to be getting on planes, back on their bikes, going home and infecting their family and friends where they are from. exactly what happened last year. the city of sturgis is doing something differently trying to make sure this doesn't happen again. they are giving away free masks, free hand sanitizer, giving away free coronavirus testing kits to anybody who may want one. there is also the ability for people to get vaccinated with the johnson & johnson one-shot vaccine. but i talked to someone who said nothing will change his mind. >> i think it should be a personal choice. if the vaccine does what they think it is going to do, then if i don't get it why are they

worried about it? i'm responsible for my own actions. i don't feel we should have to show a card to do things. that's loss of freedom as far as i am concerned. >> reporter: rcht governor is a supporter of this event. she will be here later this week riding in a charity event. s that big economic drive for this community and this state. $800 million in economic revenue for the state. there is conversation between public health and economic health. >> gary thank you. nbc news reporter gary grumbach in sturgis south dakota. i am still coming to terms with the loss of freedom i feel every time someone asks me to provide my vaccination card. michigan attorney general dana nestle is standing by. i will talk to her right after the break. er the break. once-weekly ozempic® can help you get back in it. oh, oh, oh, ozempic®!

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more and more state

republicans across the country are trying to perpetuate the big lie and conduct their own arizona cyber ninja style sham audits. one of those states is michigan. some republicans just refuse to let go of the 2020 election pretending and fund-raising off the idea that there is hope of overturning joe biden's victory through an audit. dana nestle issued a statement stating abuse of audits local election -- attorney general nestle thank you for joining us. we have talked about this type of thing for a long time but it has new urgency given the letters that we have seen that jeffrey lark was going to be sending to the georgia secretary of state to have that election overturned. the idea that we can take results in a locality and have the attorney generals or whom

ever you want to empower overturn those results against the will of the people is becoming something that most americans should be very, very worried about right now. >> well, absolutely. i agree with that. but i think it should be noted that here in the state of michigan, in addition to the fact that at first we had local clerk who is canvas their elections most of whom are republicans, all 83 counties we had a bipartisan board of elections that reviewed the election results. and we went to the state, you know, board of elections, and you know, that's a bipartisan board, in order to certify. and following certification of the election our secretary of state, who is our chief elections officer, conducted over 250 audits all around the state and concluded that the elections here were fair, and

they were accurate, and there were not inaccuracies in the election, and that joe biden in fact maintained his lead of over 150,000 votes ahead of donald trump. so audits have according to our laws here in michigan already been properly conducted. so it's very concerning to me that now the office of the auditor general appointed by the republican legislature is now seeking to do further audits even though it really exceeds the scope of his constitutional authority. >> i think this is a really important point we need to underscore. our secretary of state has had this conversation with us. neither she nor you nor the laws of the state of michigan anti-audit. you actually conduct audits. you believe audits are important and necessary. there is a difference between that kind of audit and the none accepts in arizona or the idea that you get to pick your own auditor based on whether they

are a political appointee or not. >> yeah. it is very concerning because, of course, we know that federal law actually prohibits someone who is not an elections officials who is not tasked with the responsibility of auditing an election to, you know, get their hands on -- whether it is our battle, whether it's our voting instruments. to do so would compromise the integrity of our voting infrastructure and we would likely have to do what maricopa county is having to do. they are having to pay $2.8 million to replace all of that equipment. should they do the same thing here in michigan we would have to replace all of the equipment that was compromised. that's a big concern. >> i want to get a sense for the energy for this in michigan. we have seen maricopa. we are looking at georgia, fulton county, where they are trying to get the elections

officer out there. six states including michigan are in front of the department of justice saying there were errors. state republicans have been at this since before the election. and they are continuing to try and cut away, into any of these six states w the idea that if one of them falls, others will follow. not as likely to happen in michigan because of the leadership that you have got there. but it is a consistent ongoing effort. there is a lot of energy and fund-raising behind this. >> what is odd to me. >> the senate oversight committee in michigan, which is controlled by republicans. in fact, all of their members are republicans except for one democrat. they actually authored a report. and after eight months of interviewing witnesses who testified and reviewing an exhaustive list of documents, not only did they find that there was no election fraud of any sort. they found in a the only fraud that seemed to exist was that

perpetrated on behalf of those that were selling this election lie, some of whom, by the way, it appears as though have been funding the cyber ninjas for their efforts in arizona. one of whom is a potential target this investigation has now decided to run against me for michigan attorney general. so it's a very bizarre set of circumstances. but even the republicans who are in office here have already indicated that there was no election fraud in the 2020 election. and further, what's so odd about it is the fact in a all the republicans in the other offices in which -- you know, which appeared on the ballot in 2020, whether it was the seven congressional seats held by republicans in michigan or the michigan state house, they maintained their seats. so it is very strange to say that there was fraud but only for one of the offices, only for president but none of the

down-ballot prays. >> there is an element of grift involved here because people are making money off of this continued conspiracy theory. thank you for joining us. michigan's attorney general, dana nessel. welcome home, the messagess president biden had for the afghans who helped troops during the two decade war when they arrived in the united states. thousands remain overseas. coming up next, the story of one hero at risk of being left behind. i may not be able to tell time, but i know what time it is. [whispering] it's grilled cheese o'clock. ♪ ♪ experience, hyper performance but i know what time it is. that takes you further. at the lexus golden opportunity sales event. get 0.9% apr financing on all 2021 lexus hybrid models. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. age is just a number.

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afghanistan, and a crucial commercial hub. there were reports of heavy fighting there earlier today. a council member telling nbc news there were casualties on both sides among the taliban and afghanistan forces, but that the taliban is now in control of the city. earlier today he said they were still fighting for control of the airport. this is significant because it's a key strategic location in the north. kunduz has highway links to other major parts of the city and with kabul, 200 miles away. it also comes after a string of victories for the taliban. they have largely been concentrating their fighting to rural areas, staying out of provincial capitals. that changed when they took over

a city on the afghan/iran border. on saturday, 24 hours, they captured another provincial capital in the north. and now kunduz, a strategic win for the taliban. the u.s. is still providing some air support, but this is mostly happening in the south. trying to support afghan troops there and hold the major provincial capitals there. meantime the u.s. embassy yesterday here urged all american citizens to leave the country immediately, citing the deteriorating security situation. back to you. >> thanks, kelly. she mentioned helmand province. it will become important in just a moment. american troops are planning to be out of afghanistan by the end of the month. most are already out leaving behind many afghan national who is helped the u.s. during the war who are now facing taliban retaliation and are now fearing for their lives.

hundreds of these brave men and women were issued visas. they began arriving in the u.s. last week. more are expected in the coming weeks. many interpreters are stuck in afghanistan, however, appealing visa rejections. last week we spoke with a interpreter. we are calling him zach. that's not his real name. despite receiving death threats from the taliban zach's visa application has been denied. here's his message to president biden. >> i first of all say to president biden, we are respecting you because you are the leader of american. and we were your alliance in the

field. and we worked for the mission of united states. now it is your time, our american friends, our american partners' time to help us and take us out this crisis because the enemy are looking for the poerm who worked for american, to find them and kill them and kill their family. and now i just ask mr. president to please help us and rescue our lives. >> we hear you, zak. we hope president biden has heard you as well. joining us now, jonathan capehart. good morning to you. coming up, you have got the u.s. ambassador to the united nations listeneda thomas-greenfield on your show. >> yes. and she met with this extraordinary group of athletes as she repped the united states

at today's closing ceremony in tokyo. i got a chance to ask her what it meant for her to see simone biles stands up for herself at the top of her field. her answer was moving. we have an exclusive interview with the cofounder of the group time's up. as always, a packed sunday show. i hope you will be watching. >> i shall be watching. the sunday show is right after velshi at 10:00 a.m. eastern. it has been seven years since michael brown's death at the hands of police which ignited the black lives matter effort and a movement to reform police nationwide. how far the movement has come next on velshi. ment has come next on velshi pepto bismol coats your stomach with fast and soothing relief. and try new drug free pepto herbal blends. made from 100% natural ginger and peppermint.

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seven years ago tomorrow 18-year-old michael brown was shot and killed by a police

officer in ferguson, missouri, outside of st. louis. it happened just eight days after michael brown graduated from high school. it was the second killing of an unarmed black man by police. it made national news and launched protests across the country that marked the beginning of the black lives matter movement. later, eric garner video was released of him stating i can't breathe while in a police choke hold. the justice department launched its own investigation into the city's police department leading to a scathing report that found a pattern of civil rights violations by the ferguson police department. neither officer involved in michael brown or eric garner's deaths were charged. in contrast, when unarmed george floyd died after repeatedly telling minneapolis police officer derek chauvin he couldn't believe chauvin was charged tried and convicted by a

jury of murdering george floyd. but seven years after the birth of the black lives matter, how much change has come to the nation's police departments? the "washington post" began tracking deadly police shootings in 2015 a year after michael brown's death and reported last month that officers had shot and killed more than 6,400 people since then. quote, since ferguson, departments across the country have taken steps towards reform but these efforts have been inconsistent and incomplete. most police departments still do not use body cameras. experts in criminal law and justice say there have not been the large scale policy shifts that might reduce uses of force. i am joined by a staff writer at the new york journalism school and an msnbc contributor. also aaron haines. welcome to both of you. this is a massive topic,

obviously. you have both been covering this for the duration so you are conscience of the nuances and the changes that have occurred over the last seven years. give me your investigation of where we are now compared to the summer where eric garner and michael brown were killed? >> thank you for having me on to address this topic. there there have been progress but not necessarily in the areas where we might anticipate seeing it. what i mean by that is that we -- at the outset one of the things that ferguson highlighted was the fact that we have such a decentralized series of police -- 18,000 police departments across the country. that any kind of institutional reform is going to be difficult, protracted, is going to take a long time. so it is not entirely surprising that you see kind of piecemeal efforts at reform right now. one of the areas where you do see change has been on the

prosecutorial side. we weren't really talking about progressive prosecutors seven years ago. there were people who operated under that banner. that is a much bigger haul and bigger movement than it has been back then, people are recognizing the role that prosecutors play in the unjustices in our legal system, the disparities. there is some progress but as you pointed out there is more that has to be done. >> that's an interesting distinction. erin, when i was in minneapolis before and after the derek chauvin trial what a number of the citizens there told me is that the injustice can't be undone. the injustice of george floyd having his life snuffed out can't be undone but the prosecution can lead to some degree of accountability. there are glimmers of hope there might be accountability. >> right. also an expectation that these

officers do need to be held accountable. as i think about the season of-year anniversary i reflect on that it is interesting that we are both on here today. we were together in ferguson, we were with the residents and the people who were there heart broken over michael brown's death and also told stories of their treatment by the police department that led to that pattern of practice report from the justice department and that has really changed the political dynamics in ferguson and improved conditions pour the people who live there now. many americans seven years ago didn't believe that police treated citizens this way. black journalists knew better, had our professionalism challenged for reporting that police were not protecting all citizens. but last summer the movement became more diverse.

that's because you have more americans, americans of all backgrounds, really understanding this disparity, calling for action. you have the department of justice taking action returning to the pattern of practice investigations of departments in places like minneapolis, louisville, and others. but that is not what a lot of americans in this country voted for. they are wanting to see change around this issue at the federal level. and so that seven years later is a work, among the things that still are left undone. >> the federal legislative level because we have a department of justice pattern and practices investigation now including phoenix, arizona. those are the three cities where the department of justice is looking into it. you know, one of the things that came up last year was defund the police and there were a lot of people who liked the idea, a lot of people who disliked the idea and a lot of people who think it lacks a little bit of nuance. the attorney general, jelani, put out a statement -- i don't want to ascribe motivation, but

it sounded like the long form explanation of what some people may mean when they saydee fund the police. let's listen to it. >> our society is straining the police profession by turning to law enforcement to address a wide array of social problems. too often we ask law enforcement officers to be the first and last option for addressing issues that should not be handled by our criminal justice system. this makes police officers' jobs more difficult, increases unnecessary confrontations with law enforcement, and hinders public safety. >> jelani, evaluate that. does that make sense to you? >> not only does it make sense to me, but, ali, the first person who ever said anything to me that conformed to the idea of defund the police, the first person i ever heard say that was a newark police officer. he simply said exactly what merrick garland has said, that people are putting police in

positions to respond to mental health crises, to all sorts of other non-law enforcement related social concerns, and all it does is exacerbate the likelihood that something could go wrong. at the risk of kind of plugging or self-promoting here, i've been edited volume of the report that came out this year. it's the 53-year-old report that was examining the uprisings of the 1960s. they said this in 1968 -- in 1968 they said we needed to move away from using law enforcement to respond to every social concern we have because it creates really volatile situations. so outside of the slogan is a really kind of common sense thing we should be doing about policing. >> i agree. we've been talking about this for a year and if people think about the nuances behind the slogan it's worth consideration. hang on to both of you. we're going to come back and continue this conversation after a quick brake. break.

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back with me are the good friends to our show jelani cobb, an msnbc contributor, errin haines, msnbc contributor as well. errin, this will be familiar to you as people who were in ferguson. one of the realizations people came to there was basically black people, ticketing black people was how you paid for your municipal services and your police. the "washington post" analysis of d.c. traffic violations, "washington post" analysis of tickets in the district issued from 2016 to 2020 shows that 62% of all fines from automated systems and d.c. police, $467 million were issued in neighborhoods where black residents makeup 70% of the population and where the average median household income is below 50%. and to that point, errin, parents told me back in the wake

of michael brown's death that, you know, they can try and keep their kids safe until they got a car, until the kids started to drive because they knew in ferguson, if you had a car, the cops are going to pull you over for something. they were going to give you a ticket. that ticket was going to escalate into a warrant at some point. some ridiculous percentage of black people in ferguson had warrants that were unpaid because there were fines that had just escalated. >> that's exactly right, ali. i remember being in ferguson and being struck by just how commonplace it was to hear these stories of black folks who had an outstanding warrant or who had these fees and fines that they were struggling to pay. and so really, they were under the daily threat of being pulled over and having that interaction escalate into something more. but it had become a very routine part of their lives, them just talking about the challenge of, oh, i need to get my child to day care. or i need to get to my job.

but getting in my car literally means that i am risking my potential freedom or worse if i get pulled over because i have, you know, these tickets that are just piled up, these fees and these fines that have just piled up and the department of justice investigated and heard many of these stories and determined that that was wrong, that that was disparate treatment, that that was unconstitutional. and so the ferguson police department, the city of ferguson had to change its practice of doing that and had to change at least in that area the way that they were actually targeting black people at that time through the ticketing fee and fine process. >> jelani, i want to just stick with missouri for a second. totally different topic. corey bush camped outside of congress for three days and three nights. she actually got this eviction moratorium done. corey bush is not the person people mostly elect to congress.

she was homeless at one point, she's from missouri. and she's sort of changing the face of what you think a united states member of congress should be. >> yeah, i mean, i think she's doing exactly what would be in john lewis' tradition when he urged people to get into good trouble. i think that is absolutely crucial. bringing this back full circle to the point you made earlier, one of the other legacies of ferguson has been the fact that someone like corey bush could be elected to congress. that people are much more cognizant of these issues and there is now a movement that is actually generating political impact in terms of who is running for office on the local level and the statewide level and on the federal level. >> i want to say thanks to both of you. i also want to encourage folks. you brought up the kerner commission. your book on this is new, right, jelani? >> yeah, it is, it's right over my shoulder. >> perfect. it's called the essential kerner commission report, it's edited.

government reports are noting? one reads. he made the point what was established in the '60s something called defund the police, whatever you want to call it, getting policing to do policing. and other things society needs. thanks to both of you for robust conversation. i always appreciate it. errin haines, msnbc contributor of the 19th. and jelani cobb, staff writer and author of the kerner report. that does it for me for velshi. catch me saturday and sunday 8 to 10 eastern. the jonathan capehart show begins right now. slowly but surely the senate is nearing a final vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill. senators jeff merkley and alex padilla will update us on that and voting rights. plus, the latest on the alarming surge in covid cases in the south.

and two exclusives today. u.n. ambassador linda thomas greenfield who led the u.s. delegation at the closing ceremonies of the olympics, and tina chen, president and c.e.o. of time's up, the organization formed to battle workplace sexual harassment and discrimination against women that now finds itself in the middle of the andrew cuomo scandal. i'm jonathan capehart. this is "the sunday show." ♪♪ ♪♪ this sunday we're just one day shy of the senat's planned recess and what has been called the world's greatest deliberative body still has business. they will deliberate on a $trillion infrastructure bill. it's the first of two bills. this one is expected to pass in the coming days with bipartisan support. then the democratic senate majority is hopin