and getting them where they want to be. faster. vmware. welcome change. hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 p.m. in the east. the former acting attorney general, jeffrey rosen, has offered up devastating testimony about donald trump's attempt to overturn the result of the 2020 election. it's entirely possible that the ex-president may have been convicted in his second impeachment in he had testified. but he stayed quiet, just like john bolton, lawyered up and

seemingly twisted in knots. with the benefit of hindsight, mr. rosen has now come forward and offered hours of testimony to the justice department's inspector general and to congress. from "the new york times," they write this. jeffrey rosen, who was acting attorney general during the trump administration, has told the justice department watchdog and congressional investigators that one of his deputies tried to help former president trump subvert the results of the 2020 election. that's according to a person familiar with the interviews. he had a two-hour meeting on friday with the justice department, and provided closed-door testimony to the senate judiciary committee on

saturday. jeffrey clark is described as trump's man inside the doj working to overthrow the will of the people. "the times" adding the investigations opened after an article that detailed efforts by jeffrey clark to push leaders to falsely cast doubt on the electoral college results. that prompted trump to consider ousting rosen, and installing clark at the top of the department to carry out that plan. trump never fired rosen, but the plot highlights the former president's desire to batter the justice department into advancing his personal agenda. reaction to the stark new evidence of the plot to overthrow the peaceful transfer of power was swift. >> i'm going to be very blunt. the president of the united states, then donald trump, mounted the pressure campaign

that was absolutely relentless, brutal, personally involved, directly aimed at the department of justice, seeking to break it. and weaponize it. to overthrow the election. there's a real potential here for criminal charges. they should be seriously considered. >> just how directly personally involved the president was, the pressure he was putting on jeffrey rosen, it was real. very real. and it was very specific, this president is not subtle when he wants something, the former president is not subtle when he wants something. >> rosen's testimony is the most detailed account that has been made public so far that ties trump to the operational side to the coup attempt. much of the second impeachment trial focused on the ex-president's statements. quote, he also discovered that mr. clark had been engaging in

unauthorized conversations with trump about publicly casting doubt on president biden's victory, particularly in states like georgia. clark drafted a letter to send to georgia state legislators, wrongly asserting that they should void biden's victory. such a letter would undermine efforts by clark's colleagues to prevent the white house from overturning the election results. rosen and his top deputy rejected the proposal. the testimony from atop the doj about donald trump's hands all over the efforts to overthrow the 2020 election is where we start today. katie benner joins us. also with us, ben rose is here. and joyce vance joins us, all

three msnbc contributors. katie, this was one of the jaw on the ground, stop what you're doing on a weekend in the summer and read this wherever you are. tell me more about what you're reporting. >> one of the interesting things about rosen's role, he was directly involved in conversations at the white house as they continually asked the justice department to do things that mr. rosen knew were unnecessary and not true. trying to make it seem to the american public that there were valid questions about who won the election. when at the justice department, from the top, to the fbi, understood that joe biden won the election. that makes rosen such a key witness in multiple ongoing investigation, because he was in the room. he's described in other interviews in searing detail

what sounded to him like a concerted effort by the president to stop the peaceful transition of power. >> katie, i want to press you on the timeline and the role of some of the reporting on mr. rosen in freeing up this really devastating new information. first, i want to show you how mr. rosen responded to questioning from congressman connelly, and have you put some pieces together for how we got from there to here? let's watch. >> i can't imagine a more critical question. did you have conversations prior to january 6th with the president of the united states urging you to question or overturn or challenge the election results of 2020? that's a simple question. and by the way, no executive privilege has been invoked prior to this hearing in your testimony, and you've known you were coming here for over a month. >> congressman, respectfully, i understand your interest in the issue.

and i've tried to be as forthcoming as i can with regard to the facts at the department of justice. when you asked me about communications with the president, i as a lawyer don't get to make the decision on whether i can reveal private conversations and other people make that decision. >> katie, was there ever any restrictions on mr. rosen talking? >> what he was referring to is the fact that in general, administration officials never speak about deliberative conversations, decision making conversations that happen in the executive branch. particularly with the president. that has been the norm for multiple presidencies because every administration understands that they don't want to walk out the door and have all of their conversations be publicly revealed. it's protected the executive branch for a long time. while that testimony was happening, rosen and other colleagues were in

communications with the justice department trying to figure out what they would be allowed to tell investigators. it was less than two weeks ago that the justice department made the decision that they would not invoke any kind of privilege. and former justice department officials were allowed to talk freely to investigators. and they said, do with this what you will. rosen reached out to the inspector general at the justice department and said, i want to help you. please schedule me for an interview as soon as possible. and he as soon as possible scheduled an interview with the senate judiciary committee. i'm told he felt that time was of the essence. former president trump could file some lawsuit to block his testimony. so he wanted it out there, on the record, as soon as he could make that happen. >> ben rhodes, it is valuable to have that testimony. it's really important to understanding, again, which gears trump's hands were on

while he was attempting to overthrow the vote of the american people and nullify president joe biden's win. it is also true that as i said at the top, like john bolton, the country went through a second impeachment. and mr. rosen had very relevant information. how do you feel about learning about what he knew now? >> well, clearly, this is someone who didn't put the interests of the country ahead of his own and donald trump's personal interests. there's a norm around executive privilege. but what donald trump did as president, he respected absolutely no norms, while hiding behind those that helped him. the executive privilege does not cover trying to do a coup, and there are a lot of people in washington that donald trump was probably talking to in this time. i'm sure there are republican members of congress who were

talking to him at this time. this proves how much of an imperative it is to get to the bottom of this, in part, because we know donald trump is the front-runner for the republican presidential nomination in 2024 by all analysis these days. what would he do if he had the opportunity to get back into office and surround himself with the kind of yes-men who would make this happen. we need to make sure we do everything we can to prevent it going forward. >> joyce, if you could pick up that thread. there are multiple investigations, and katie's reporting that mr. rosen cooperated with all of them, and i know you've written about examining donald trump's culpability in terms of january 6th, and what do you find most

relevant? what else do you want to know? >> increasingly, we understand that these were not isolated events. january 6th did not happen in isolation. rather, donald trump was committed to overturning this peaceful transfer of power. and he began at the easiest, most accessible level, and ultimately, when that didn't work, we reached the stage of january 6th where he resorted to using his base and having them physically interpose themselves in the halls of congress to prevent certification of the election. rosen's testimony is critically important both for the facts of his communications with the former president and the former president's efforts to subvert people inside of the justice department. but it also gives investigators a window into trump's state of mind, in those critical days.

and whether or not he fully intended to have events on january 6th come across as interference with the results of the election. this is one of the most important things investigators will have to look at, given this evidence doj must conduct a criminal investigation. and ben tells us exactly why. because trump has never stopped. he's never renounced the big lie. we have new state laws in some of the key states that would permit elections to do legally what trump tried to do here. it's a very dangerous moment. >> you know, to joyce's point, katie, can you offer an analysis of mr. rosen's thinking here? is he a willing participant in what liz cheney has described in an effort to get to the bottom of how donald trump sort of lit a match and started january 6th? does he feel any culpability for not going to any of the congressional oversight committees while this was

happening? does he think that he and mr. donaghue walked the line, and if they left, mr. clark would have taken the department into dangerous places? do you have any analysis of what he thinks? >> he was willing to answer every question, he felt it was important that he be there, and he was extremely amenable to the interview. so he did want to cooperate. however, he's an extremely careful person. he's not going to say anything off the cuff or anything he hasn't carefully thought out. i'm told in his testimony, he was extremely careful. he himself never said he thought any action should be taken against, for example, his former colleagues. he did not suggest that any legal actions, investigations should be opened. he avoided saying anything that would imply that he thought they should do, only articulated the

facts as he knew them. and he's not going to go beyond that. i don't think he ever will. that doesn't mean he's not willing, it just means he feels it's not his role. i've gotten outreach from form officials who say, they don't need any more to open an investigation. i don't see the justice department simply opening a criminal investigation into this, they need a criminal referral, and that only comes to the kind of investigative work that we're seeing. the investigations take a long time. so i would say this could go on for a while before we see any movement from the justice department in terms of what joyce has just spoken about. >> ben, the republican allies of

the ex-president aren't acting as though they have nothing to hide. let me show you some of their recent comments on the select committee investigating january 6th. >> i think a fact-finding commission and a censure resolution would be prudent. >> you have an insurrection in the capitol. you've had political violence, if you're going to put a commission together, why not look at all the problems. >> it would be partisan by design. we can't have artificial cherry picking about which terrible behavior does deserve scrutiny. >> this is impeachment round three. this is to go after president trump. >> they sound ludicrous when you read jeffrey rosen's testimony, what he testified to was a

conspiracy to overthrow the election. these guys either didn't know about it, or are covering it up. >> yeah, what is absolutely astonishing here is we don't even know the half of what has happened inside the united states government in those times. it's easy for people to think back to rudy giuliani's crazy press conferences, or even just to look at january 6th as an isolated incident. what was going on to deeply subvert the u.s. department of justice to serve the united states president's political ends? what was going on decide the department of defense? this was not normal. what he was trying to get the justice department to do is just not how it operates. and the way to prevent that from operating in the future, is to have people sitting in this office know that it's wrong, and that there will be

accountability. if you try to overthrow the peaceful transition of power, you will be held accountable. and people in congress running interference, rather than protecting the integrity of u.s. institutions and u.s. democracy itself. that's incredibly dangerous. that sends a message that if they can get by with their voter suppression laws, outrage, and disinformation and get through this election and the next one, and reclaim the levers of power, then everyone will know, there is no accountability. you can do everything you want to do, and as long as the republican party is in lockstep, you can shirk accountability. that's incredibly dangerous for american democracy, and that's why it's so imperative that this investigation continues, the facts come out, and that people be held accountable for wrongdoing. otherwise, what message do we

send to people going forward, that you can get away with it, even if you get caught. >> well, joyce, the other message that those gentlemen are sending is that voters are stupid. that voters, they think that voters will believe that the ballots were corrupt only at the line where you chose president. where is sort of an off-ramp for rational minds? i want to read congressman raskin, he said in terms of what the 1/6 committee will look at, we want to understand trump's efforts to manipulate the department as part of the attack on the election leading up to january 6th. if trump wanted to use the department of justice to delegitimize the election, raskin noted the earlier

machinations reveal his intent to overthrow our democratic process. i think the case laid out was the public statements tying the insurrectionists to the actions they took in the impeachment. and the damage they did to the building, to the police officers. but katie's reporting closes the loop on donald trump's intent. he intended, through mr. clark, to have the justice department declare the election corrupt, and have the georgia officials to overthrow their results. we know if you want something corrupt done in georgia, it's a decent bet he wanted it in other places like pennsylvania and arizona. because georgia didn't get him where he needed to be. >> i'm not sure there is an

off-ramp. the public evidence is clear of trump's intent, of all the acts that occurred. and there may not be the appetite inside of doj to engage in a prosecution without another body requesting that they do so. in terms of the ig, we're probably waiting at least a year or 18 months for a final report. in the meantime, evidence is slipping away. this is why it's so important that what is going on at doj match what we're seeing publicly. this is not just sort of a suggestion that there might be a political prosecution of a prior administration. doj is right to resist engaing in those kinds of prosecutions that are arguably political. this is a situation where, and i will belabor that we all know to be true, that a sitting president of the united states tried to interfere with the

peaceful transfer of power so he could hang on to power personally. and he was surrounded by people who appeared to be involved in those fortunately unsuccessful efforts. it's time for doj to act. there is no off-ramp unless the former president is held accountable. >> that is really important analysis. joyce, thank you so much. you're sticking around a little longer. i want to say katie's dog is ready for her to be done, and we're grateful to have had you and your reporting. thank you for joining us. ben, thank you as always for starting us off. when we come back, we'll talk with one of the senators who heard from jeffrey rosen himself on the ex-president's attempts to sow doubt on his loss using doj. where do the investigations go next? and the epicenter of this covid outbreak remains florida, florida, florida. the governor there fighting

against mandates and all mask restrictions. but can schools and businesses break through to change the direction of the virus and protect people? plus, later in the show, the fight for the facts about january 6th goes on, as the committee adds another republican to their ranks. all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. whoo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, now introducing ensure complete! with 30 grams of protein. ♪all by yourself.♪ you look a little lost. i can't find my hotel. oh. oh! ♪♪

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we're learning some stunning new details about the former president's attempt to overturn the 2020 election result, thanks to testimony from jeffrey rosen.

he told the senate judiciary committee about trump's efforts to enlist the doj in sowing doubt over election results. joining us now, the chairman of the judiciary committee, senator dick durbin. >> good to be with you. >> i saw your interview with my friend dana bash. and we covered coup attempts in places like turkey. would you describe this as a coup attempt? >> it's its own version. first the onslaught of lawsuits. didn't work. tried 50 or 60 times. then he went to the department of justice and decided he would

manipulate the attorney general into really initiating an investigation into particular states. rosen, i want to say it in a positive reference to him, voluntarily came before our committee. was interviewed for seven hours, and told us a lot of the story of what happened in that period of time. i want to say, even though we were skeptical going in, he stood his ground, and i'm glad he did. and finally rkts january 6th, we know what happened then. he turned a mob loose on the capitol. so it's not just a bad day for donald trump. it was a conscious plan, strategy, that didn't work, thank goodness. the constitution held, and we finally have the new president. >> senator, why do you think mr. rosen voluntarily provided you with seven hours of testimony, and didn't do so when the country went through a second impeachment trial of the

ex-president? >> i can't explain his motive or decision earlier, but he could not have been more cooperative. he came to us voluntarily. there was no subpoena involved. once the attorney general made it clear they would not assert any privilege, he knew he was not being held back and he volunteered. and i think he was very cooperative, start to finish, from my point of view. >> do you think, it sounds like he was happy to be there and very forthcoming. do you think there was a threat he faced? you were a juror twice, the second time, it was a bipartisan impeachment vote, a bipartisan conviction vote. do you think someone like him offering seven hours of testimony would have made a difference in the conviction?

>> i'm not sure that focused on the events of january 6th, and what mr. rosen had to tell us preceded that event. it was the last week in december and the first week in january when the president was making his full play and threat to mr. rosen that we discussed in this investigation. >> do you see them as connected, or does he see them connected to january 6th? >> i do. in terms of president trump, he was trying every trick in the book. first the courts, then the attorney general, then the mob. i don't know what else he would have tried at that point. but he was trying everything he could think of. and mr. rosen fit into the second scenario, where the president was virtually threatening to replace the attorney general if he didn't do his bidding. >> i wonder, we don't have a lot of examples of people inside trump's deep inner circle

cooperating with investigations. but one might be mr. mueller's use of don mcgahn and the white house counsel. and he maybe opened the investigators' eyes to other witnesses. could you tell us any other witnesses you would like to pursue? >> we have the u.s. attorney from atlanta, georgia, who will be speaking to our bipartisan investigative team in a few days. and others we're considering. certainly, we would like to have jeffrey clark do the same. there's no reason why he shouldn't. i hope he'll cooperate. >> and are there other states that mr. rosen was concerned that the clark model of asking to send a letter to georgia asking them to have the legislature void mr. biden's win there, are there other states on your radar? >> at this point, no.

but we'll gather the information and evidence before we make a public report. >> and from listening to mr. rosen's description of mr. clark's conduct, do you think it was criminal? >> i'm not sure i want to characterize it one way or the other at this point. there's a lot of information we'd like to gather from mr. clark that will help bring clarity to the situation. but it certainly raised questions. and mr. rosen understood that mr. clark was waiting in the wings, if he didn't do president trump's requests, comply with those requests, he very easily could have been replaced. >> does your committee's sort of investigative purview intersect with the 1/6 committee's mission or scope? or are you collaborating with them? >> not at this point, but there's no reason why we could

not. if we have information to share, i wouldn't rule it out. >> do you have any sense, this is your expertise, and i think i spoke to you at various intervals over the last five years with varying degrees of alarm about what was happening at doj. can you characterize what you felt listening to the seven hours of testimony? >> first, you have to understand that bill barr has resigned at the point where we start our questioning of mr. rosen. clark, who had done the president's bidding in almost every area, had decided that the election was honest, the results were fair and accurate, said as much publicly, and then quit. at that point, we had a vacancy at the department of justice, and that's where mr. rosen came in. some were questioning, is he up to the job, can he stand up to

the pressure from the president? i would say based on what he heard, he did stand up. >> would you like him to be more forceful in what he said? the trump base still believes in the big lie. is there a sort of function in a public testimony down the road for mr. rosen? >> i can't tell you whether there will be any public testimony. there will be a release, of course, of what we heard in the course of the investigation. i think he was very factual, very forthcoming. i don't believe he was evasive in any way. despite not being under oath, i thought he was giving us a truthful account as he remembered it. >> did you plan to have him come back after you go speak to the u.s. attorney from georgia? do you plan to continue to rely on him as a fact witness, to use

the don mcgahn parallel from mr. mueller? >> i wouldn't rule it out. but i would have to tell you that seven hours is a very good indication of his cooperation and we were grateful for it. if there is additional information necessary, i would request him to return. >> i just have a question for you about whether or not you asked him about the reference in mr. donaghue's notes saying i'll take a care of the rest, along with the "r" accomplices. did you ask him? >> i wasn't there for that particular question if it was asked. so i can't give you a good response. >> is it your sense that there were republicans who knew about mr. clark's efforts? >> i don't know that. i would just have to tell you that there are aspects of the interview, i was out of the room

some of the time, and back in other parts of the time. i don't want to characterize every question, but the seven hours were carefully monitored by staff, democrat and republican staff, going through and reviewing the transcripts now. >> and those notes seemed to be accurate in terms of what you were able to pursue in the seven hours. i wonder if you think congress should and will get to the bottom of who trump was referring to, that they could leave the rest to him and his "r" accomplices, is that of interest to you? >> of course it is. i can guess who his loyalists were at the time, because i know who they are today. there are quite a few of them. some of them were outspoken, one or two appeared at the rally

before he send the mob to the capitol. the loyalists were pretty proud of that label. >> and still are. it's very generous of you to spend so much time talking to us. is there anything else that you want to share with us as a last word? >> no, but we're going to continue. we're not finished. there will be other witnesses, and we'll request people to come join us and tell us their side of the story. i think it's going to be a fascinating report. stay tuned. >> do you believe that at the end, you will know about all of donald trump's efforts to use the justice department to overturn the 2020 election result? >> i'd never say never. but i would say it's unlikely we'll know everything that he tried in this desperate attempt to push the big lie. he's still doing it today after everything has failed. he went to great lengths, and we're cataloging some of it now. >> senator dick durbin, thank you for spending time with us today.

it's nice to talk to you. >> thank you. up next for us, the ambitious republican governor of florida making a bet on the lives of his political base. choosing phony cries about freedom and choice over science and smart mandates. that story is next. rugs starting at $39.99. but you'll make 'em look like a million bucks. home. there's no place like it. ♪ someone once told me, that i should get used to people staring. so i did.

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20 years after september 11th, a horrific day for the country, in which nearly 3,000

lost their lives, most of us still remove shoes at the airport, throw away drinks, and subject ourselves and our kids of all ages to random and invasive searches of our bodies and belongings from the tsa. 1 1/2 years into a pandemic which killed more than 620,000 americans and sickened more than 35 million, we have no new federal mandates for the general public, no new federal agencies, and not even a federal mandate for those who fly on airplanes. but the federal government said that people at the pentagon must be vaccinated by mid-september. but you wonder why people are

not using their authority. enter the private sector, which seems to be banking on products that don't kill or sicken their customers. a federal judge ruled against the florida governor's ban against vaccine mandates for cruise line passengers. the decision was the result of a lawsuit from norwegian cruise line, saying it will operate in the safest way possible. it's an important precedent, for states where republican governors are banning mandating masks for the sake of personal freedoms. it's happening in places like florida and texas, where 30% of all cases come from. joining me now, tim o'brien, and

olivia troye. i want to start with you, olivia, on the breaking news that the pentagon will mandate vaccines for all members of the military. >> it's a good start, to protect our members of the military services and our communities. i know it was a careful decision, but i remember deploying and getting the anthrax vaccine, i was a civilian and i was told to get it. if it's going to protect americans and service members, then i hope we'll see more efforts like this. because i think it's necessary at this point. >> tim, i want to ask you about two things. the administration's response to that parallel about not requiring proof of vaccine to fly is that inside the airplane, you're quite safe. that's a great thing, and sort of the innovations that the airlines made inside the airplane itself.

but i don't know the last time either of you flew. most of the time that you spend traveling is not inside the tube. it's spent other places, where you could certainly get coughed or sneezed on by somebody with covid. why not mandate proof of vaccine to fly on an airplane? >> because of the thing you just identified when your voice went into a high pitch about personal freedoms. we're in this very weird era right now, and i think it's destructive, in which the notion of any kind of government engagement with its citizens in any fashion represents government overreach, and it is a violation of personal freedoms, and you get all of this don't tread on me rhetoric. that is damaging, and it ultimately i think results in individual selfishness trumping the common good. and if we ever needed a lesson in the dangers of politicizing government leadership and

government solutions, we're getting that right now in covid. and i think the pentagon is offering us a very good example of how to do this right. the pentagon is the world's largest employer, employs almost 3 million people. it's made a decision to actively protect service members' health so they can protect the national security of the country. i have a son in the navy. he's serving right now. i'm glad they're looking out for him, and i know he has no problem with getting vaccinated. he's already fully vaccinated. but corporate america, which routinely talks about bureaucracies has not moved as fast as the pentagon. walmart and amazon have not gone all-in yet. walmart is only mandating it for managers, but not for retail workers. and amazon has not imposed a

mandate at all. any of these big organizations, if they get thrown off the rails by buying into this individualism garbage, without looking after the people they're responsible for, we're going to be in a bad way. >> i want to read what freedom is doing for the people who thought they wanted to be free. six unvaccinated florida church members dying of covid within the past ten days. 4 of the 6 were healthy and under the age of 35. a 49-year-old father of two's death has rattled an arkansas town. coming amid a spate of rocketing

deaths and hospitalizations. doctors and political leaders are trying everything to persuade a reluctant populace to get them. i grieve for everyone who either didn't find time to get vaccinated, didn't think they needed to get vaccinated. but every one of them, 99.9% of the vaccinated people have not had a breakthrough infection. it does save you from leaving your kids too early. olivia, what is the thing that breaks through? >> i guess, you know, i hate the fact that this is such a divisive issue. i've seen this firsthand in the past year when this pandemic started. and i hate the fact that this remains to be a very divisive thing across our country. i think it's protection of human life and the people you love. that's the bottom line, take the politics out of it. and i hate that it takes a

personal story to finally bring reality to it and bring it to life. how many more people have to die? how many loved ones do we have to lose? how many friends, neighbors, family members? we all know someone who has been affected by this pandemic. we have a vaccine now. that's the incredible thing, and we have a tool that can protect us from it. i think it's important for us to come together and it's impossible to do that right now, when you have irresponsible leaders that really just won't cooperate and won't come together at a leadership level, and are making this incredibly -- this effort to be very hard. >> it is. it's hard to watch. olivia, thank you for being with us today. tim isn't going anywhere. because when we come back, new york's governor cuomo is still fighting back against the report. the very latest on his struggle

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your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ♪ ♪ otezla. show more of you. new york governor andrew cuomo digs in and refuses to step down amid increasing calls for his resignation, the state assembly's judiciary committee took the next big steps on grounds for impeachment if he continues to fight. their findings could become later this month and could -- they could also hold public hearings. >> the members of the judiciary

committee and my majority colleagues understand the gravity of the situation we find ourselves in today. future generations will look to us and how we conducted ourselves in this moment. our members have no confidence in the ability of the governor to remain in office. i think that's the universal sentiment that we have. >> meanwhile, there are two resignations to tell you about in the last 24 hours stemming from that painstakingly detailed a.g. report. governor cuomo's most trusted adviser melissa derosa and the chairman of time's up, roberta kaplan, were noted in the report as being involved in an effort against the first cuomo accuser, lindsey boylan. tim o'brien is still with us and joyce vance is with us. tim, i will get to you in a

moment. joyce, is there something that could force the governor's hand into resigning before he is impeached? >> i think it is politics more than law that comes into play here, nicolle. of course, there are reports albany has started a criminal investigation into one of these allegations. that appears to be a misdemeanor sort of investigation, and it is unlikely that it can move more quickly than the political proceedings. so i suspect we are looking at questions of politics, not law, at least in the short term here. . >> so, tim, the politics of this are pretty stark. i mean i don't know that the governor has any defenders left, not just in new york but in democratic national politics. how do you see this playing out? >> i see him as having to resign, and if he doesn't resign he is going to get impeached and forced out of office. i could be wrong. but when you have long-time allies of his in the new york state assembly who have coalesced around the idea that

he will be impeached and are being aggressive about moving that forward, i think that's a death knell for him. you know, albany is a very small town. when you go up there and report from albany, it is not a big city, it is a village. the relationships are intimate and power is wielded up there in a very blunt force way. andrew cuomo buried a very substantial corruption investigation that was winding its way through the state assembly years ago. he has not been able to knock this one out of his path, and i think he should take a lesson from that. i think the preponderance of evidence in the a.g.'s report has convinced almost everyone around him, including his allies and members of his own staff, that time is up. i think the second thing is that, you know, harassing women is a bipartisan affair, and men across both parties have got to

realize that sexual harassment isn't just assault and rape. it is also running your finger down someone's spine as the governor is alleged to have done and running his hand across someone's waist as the governor is allege to have done. i think he has to own up and realize that times have changed and the clock has run out on this. >> yes, joyce, the governor's defense has not included an element of remorse. i think to what tim just articulated, assault and abuse and abuse of power has also come under scrutiny and he seems to have missed that part of the movement we're living through. >> it was a remarkably tone-deaf response. the governor issues general denials or failures to remember incidents in the face of these highly specific, detailed allegations made not just by one but by 11 women. and in light of that, it has

been a remarkably unimpressive defense so far. >> tim o'brien and joyce vance, thank you for spending time with us today on all of these headlines. the next hour of "deadline: white house" starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. we are just getting started. >> tech: every customer has their own safelite story. this couple was on a camping trip... ...when their windshield got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service you can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ rugs starting at $39.99. but you'll make 'em look like a million bucks. home. there's no place like it. when you have metastatic breast cancer,

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remind your parents to pack an emergency supply kit. making a plan might feel like homework, but it will help you and your family stay safe during an emergency. i guess i'm still sort of stunned that we don't want to have individuals that find out what happened here. let me say why. if we had republicans saying they feared for their lives, wouldn't they want to know the truth of what happened? listen, if i had death threats, which i did, you know, many of us did from qanon or con spir torl individuals, why wouldn't

we want to know the truth? >> hi, everyone. it is 5:00 in the east. former republican congressman and frequent guest on this program, denver riggleman has been outspoken about the radicalization of his own party and the abject failure of minority leaders mccarthy and mcconnell to back a 9/11-style commission to investigate january 6th. now along with his background in intelligence and his efforts to expose the dangers of disinformation, the former congressman has been chosen to join the house select committee investigating the attack. this weekend chairman bennie thompson announced riggleman will be brought on as a senior technical advisor, a noteworthy decision as "the washington post" reports, the house select committee investigating the january 6th insurrection at the capitol has hired former virginia congressman daniel riggleman as a senior staff member adding another republican to its ranks even as most gop lawmakers attack the committee as being too partisan. now three republicans work on the select committee.

as riggleman publicly announced his new position, he stressed that the work goes beyond party lines. >> i have to say doing this might be one of the biggest things i have ever done in my life. that includes deploying almost 20 years ago right after 9/11 with the 34th bomb squadron out of mountain home air force base. we can't worry about the color of the jerseys anymore or whether we have an "r" or a "d" next to our name. it is time for us to look in a fact-based way at what happened on january 6th but to see what we can do to prevent it from happening in the future. >> the urgent work is underscored by the ongoing threat of violence from those individuals radicalized by donald trump over the 2020 election and from fresh account the law enforcement officers who continue to suffer from injuries and trauma they endured in hours of hand-to-hand combat with trump supporters on january 6th. in a new op-ed, erin smith, widow of jeffrey smith, one of

the four police officers who died by suicide after responding to the capitol siege writes this. quote, things changed for jeffrey on january 6th. he became quiet and moody, sometimes testy. he was not happy with the care he received at the police and fire clinic, and he was still in pain. he was waiting for his follow-up appointment, but at that appointment rather than being cared for he was ordered back to duty the very next day, january 15th. he told me it was the shortest doctor's appointment he ever had. in the meantime my husband is gone and the district of columbia government so far has taken the position that for some reason because my husband's injuries were emotional, invisible, he didn't die in the line of duty. these officers need to be recognized for the horrors they have seen and protected us from. their service needs to be respected. their families should receive the same support and assistance as every other fallen officer's

family. instead, we have been stigmatized. we've had our health insurance taken, denied even the courtesy of an official burial. that fight for recognition, recognition of the facts of what happened and what the officers defending the front lines went through is an ongoing one, championed by d.c. police officer michael fanone. a cover story about his mission we covered last week asked this question, quote, what makes a hero? is it bravery, charging into danger to protect others? is it sacrifice, the damage sustained in the process? or is it the man who refuses to let us forget? not forgetting what happened on january 6th and the abject failure to show up for the law enforcement officials who protected democracy is where we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. eddie glaude is here, chair of the department of african-american studies at princeton university, and lucky for us an msnbc contributor.

also with us national political correspondent for "time magazine", molly ball, whose byline is on the extraordinary cover story about michael fanone. and bill bratton is here, former nypd commissioner and author of the new book "the profession, a memoire of community, race and the arc of policing in america." let me start with you, commissioner. is it industry standard not to keep benefits for survivors or consider it a death in the line of duty when a police officer dies by suicide? >> this issue is reflective of the larger issue of policing in america. there are 18,000 different departments. they have 18,000 different sets of policies, and the issue of suicide, you're going to get 18,000 different, if you will, policies relative to that issue. so the events around january 6th

certainly are exceptional. the timing of the deaths of the officer referenced in the op-ed that you just read, the timing of it would lead you to clearly believe that his death was a direct result of what he experienced on that day. but as in all cases, the devil is in the details. so i think some of the resistance to the idea of line-of-duty designation with suicide officers is required, that it requires an intimate look-see at the circumstances in each one. arguably, this one on january 6th is exceptional. >> so i picked up some reporting, commissioner, over the weekend from sources close to one of the four officers who testified before the select committee that there's a lot of frustration that the police union isn't defending these officers from vicious attacks. i don't know if you monitor fox news, but they called -- laura ingraham called the four officers performance artists and

gave each a grade in their performances in the hours-long testimony. let me read you a statement from the fraternal order of police to be fair. this is their statement on the january 6th riots in general. the national fop's position on the january 6th, 2021 riot at the u.s. capitol is contained in a statement released even as the lawlessness continued. those who participated in the assaults, looting and trespassing must be arrested and held to account. we continue to offer our support, gratitude and love to our brothers and sisters in law enforcement who successfully fought off the rioters, and we will be with them as they grieve and recover, however long that may take. what is going on behind the scenes with the fop and the officers who were sort of on the front line of demanding more accountability for the ex-president and the rioters themselves that they would feel dissatisfied? >> well, first off, the comments by laura ingraham and any number of the people on fox and other

far-right, if you will, channels are disgusting, absolutely disgusting. the heroism of those officers on that day should not be demeaned in any way, but that seems to be the direction that fox news and many of the commentators have taken, which is regrettable and disgusting. as it relates to the fop, which is the fraternal order of police, it represents a significant number of american police officers, not all of them. what they are attempting to do is thread the needle very carefully in the sense that they recognize that, unfortunately, many of their members are trump supporters, are leaning to the right, if you will, in terms of their political positions sometimes understandable when you think of the attacks that are being made on them by the left, if you will. so what they're trying to do is have it both ways, if you will. in this instance, the january 6th insurrection, you can't have it both ways. you need to speak loud and clear

that law enforcement was under attack on that day, especially the officers from the metropolitan and capitol police and the fop i think and any other union in this country needs to be much more forceful in basically it's tacks on those who would seek to defend the action of the rioters and those who were engaging in insurrection on that day. like chamberlin and the main regiment of gettysburg who held the line and saved our republic in 1863, those capitol officers held the line on january 6th and saved our republic. we were that close to losing our democracy. that's the reality of it. >> yeah. i mean, molly ball, just to pick up on the commissioner's comments, now there's adam kinzinger's incredibly emotional moment when he spoke to the four officers who testified, and i believe like your reporting on officer fanone picks up almost where the public hearing left

off about the torment they're all feeling. can you elaborate on sort of what you observed about what being officer fanone is like right now? >> yeah. you know, these officers are being retraumatized every time they have to listen to the lies that are being told about what happened on january 6th. they cannot move on. they cannot achieve closure. they can't come to terms with what happened, and the most painful part, as i think commissioner bratton alluded to, they've been severed from a lot of their friends, their family of police officers, a lot of their own colleagues not believing what they went through or not sympathizing fully with what they went through. on some level that becomes an identity crisis for police officers who have always, you know, seen this as their identity, for officer fanone whose identity was so wrapped up in being a police officer and the excellent work that he did defending the community, to now have to wonder whether his own colleagues would have been perhaps on the other side of

those battle lines. and to see the fraternal order of police, as you were talking about, and this is something that officer fanone has personally experienced as well and i spoke to the president of the fraternal order of police which endorsed trump twice, and they're not backing up these officers. the president of the fop, while he expressed a lot of sympathy for officer fanone and what he has gone through, he repeatedly refused to condemn the politicians who spread these laws and continue to do so. >> eddie glaude, what is so chilling for me i think is there's a parallel here. maybe you and i who have had these conversations day after day can sort of flesh this out. kevin mccarthy and mitch mcconnell didn't do anything when donald trump lied about losing in november for the same reason that the fraternal order of police won't do anything to back officers pta known and dunn and the others who were out front testifying to the horrors of the day. it is the same dynamic, it is fear of one's base.

i wonder, i mean we are well past asking a question as to whether or not there's a red line. i mean four officers have died by suicide, their bodies were mutilated. one officer is still in physical therapy for his injuries, and as holly has just said they're traumatized by the horrors they suffered. where does this leave us in terms of half of the country recognizing their heroics and being there for them, but the people they care about, their peers, leaving them out to dry? >> i think it becomes this extraordinarily important way of delineating the divisions within the country as you have just laid out and the choices that have to be made. i mean, look, all we need to do is just ask ourselves the hypothetical. if it was a black lives matter protest that stormed the capitol and four police officers ended up dead, what would be the response of the fop? it would be a full-throated critique, criticism, right?

there's a sense in which adam swerver writes in "the atlantic" that the response of the fop on january 6th doesn't represent the kind of organization that is supposedly committed to law and order. what that reveals, nicolle, at least in direct answer to your question is that there's a different understanding of citizenship for some people vis-a-vis other people, that there's a different application of the idea of law and order for some as opposed to others. and if we have that -- if that obtains in our country, then we know that democracy is in peril because there are those who are willing to concede the principles of democracy in defense of those people who have a different conception or a different idea of citizenship for themselves. >> commissioner bratton, i mean how can you be in a community and be trusted if that is where we are all divided? i know we have been divided for a long time, and i know you alluded to it as well, that

there's a lot of -- there were already divisions before january 6th. but i wonder just what direct threats does law enforcement in america face if they're now going to very publicly fracture among those lines of seeing january 6th as a crime against the capitol, against the democracy and the people who protected it as heroes, and refusing to really have their back in the day-in and day-out attacks that are coming their way? >> well, as i expressed earlier, i'm extraordinarily disappointed in the actions of the fop and other unions and some of the police leadership of the rank and file, but there is no denying that the rank and file tend to lean to the right, if you will. there's no denying that many of them are, unfortunately, trump supporters. the good news out of all of this is that when events occur such as what happened on january 6th that the vast, vast majority of police officers are going to basically go to center. they're going to do as those

officers did on january 6th. i would be willing to bet many of those officers on that day, prior to that day, maybe after that day are still trump supporters. but when called upon to fulfill their obligations, the oath that they took, unlike, unfortunately, many of our congressional members who refuse to recognize what happened on that day, the officers will do what is expected of them, up hold their oats of office. the vast, vast majority of them, they do it every day, but it is something that certainly many of our congressional leadership are missing in action when they're called upon to do exactly the same thing, to come to center to protect our democracy. >> it is a great way to talk about it. i mean, molly ball, you have written so beautifully about michael fanone's pain to be blunt. if you could expand on that. some of it seemed to be really exacerbated by going face-to-face with mccarthy and asking him to take this investigation seriously, to appoint serious members and to

be rebuffed. >> yes, thank you so much. if you haven't, you can read it at time.com, but, you know, officer fanone is subjecting himself to this pain voluntarily, i would say even just as he voluntarily rushed into danger on january 6th and he is doing it because he believes that people need to hear what really happened and this cannot be allowed to be white warned or swept under the rug for the sake of us as a nation. so that's why he keeps doing this, even though it obviously would be much easier to simply, you know, hideaway and try to get better. but, you know, i think there's not a lot of people in this world who are determined to pursue the truth no matter what it costs them, and in this case it has cost him basically everything. but that's the importance of this committee, right? it has this dual mission. it has the investigative mission and it has a political mission to try to create a narrative that is non-partisan, that is simply true, that we as a nation can come together around.

that is why, you know, the addition of another republican to this committee hopefully will move the needle a little bit in convincing people that there's an earnest effort going on here to get to the bottom of what happened, not simply a partisan play. >> yeah. i mean, eddie, i think you have been on with denver riggleman, and it certainly is important in terms of the credibility of this committee among people who are still listening, and i guess that's the existential question all four of us will ponder heading to the midterm election and the presidential election. but i have that article that you referenced and i want to read it for you, eddie, because i think it is a story of missed opportunities, people that have maximum credibility in the part of the country associated with extremism and the threats these officers faced that day. this is from "the atlantic." because the right hold the police in such high regard, the fraternal order of police is uniquely positioned to dis-abu conservatives of the idea that the rioters were heroic or that the riot itself was carried out

by leftists, and any other manner of conspiracy theories deployed to obfuscate what happened on january 6th. the organization is ideally suited to pressure republican lawmakers to support the commission examining the incident and to criticize those who seek to turn that process into a circus or rewrite the events of the day. the union could use its stature to attack the legitimacy of right-wing political violence and to reject the harmful notion that the role of american police is to act as a partisan militia rather than to impartially enforce the law. it is just a very well-argued, i think, sort of case about the missed opportunity to do some real good in addressing some of the radicalizations that threatens all of us, especially law enforcement. >> exactly. and to use commissioner bratton's language, what does it mean to try to thread the needle in this regard? what does it mean for you to say that an extraordinary number, a large number among the ranks are trump supporters? what does that mean in its

details? how does that flesh -- what does that flesh -- what does it mean in terms of actual practice? how does it lead to a response to the white supremacist extremists who were in -- who were among the january 6th insurrectionists? what does it mean in terms of those other extremists who are members of qanon? we have to make a choice. are we going to coddle folk who hold these sort of views, even though they're among our ranks, or are we going to say who they are and what they've done? i think what adam swerver has said in this important piece is precisely right. they had a chance, but it presumes, the chance presumes that the organization is willing to call out those who actually hold the views that are problematic in the first place, nicolle. >> commissioner bratton, your name was invoked. i will give you the last word. >> well, i wish that the profession, if you will, would be as condemning of the events

of january 6th as they were certainly of the murder of george floyd and the actions of that police officer. good news is that the leadership of american policing, major city chiefs, the vast, vast majority of them are speaking out. they may be speaking in a different way than some of the union leadership, but the good news is that american policing when push comes to shove will effectively, as i have talked about, come to center. again, i'm optimistic about that. will we be going through a time of turbulence in the near term and, unfortunately, the far term? undoubtedly that's the reality of where we are in america today. but i'm still going to be supportive of when push comes to shove, american policing will do the right thing. >> commissioner bill bratton, eddie glaude, molly ball, author of the great cover story in

"time magazine", it is wonderful to talk to you about it. thank you all for starting us off this hour today. when we return, donald trump's desperate attempts to pressure the justice department to overturn his election loss. we will ask a house impeachment manager from the second impeachment trial why the acting attorney general didn't offer this testimony sooner. plus, a dire new warning about climate change. why experts are saying some devastating effects of global warming are now inevitable. try as he might, the disgraced ex-president could not succeed in tanking another infrastructure week or the infrastructure bill, which looks to be a big, huge giant achievement for the biden administration. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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i can't imagine a more critical question. did you have conversations prior to january 6th with the president of the united states urging you to question or overturn or challenge the election results of 2020? it is a simple question, and, by the way, no executive -- no executive privilege has been invoked prior to this hearing and your testimony, and you have known you were coming here for over a month. >> congressman, respectfully, i understand your interest in the issue and i have tried to be as forthcoming as i can with regard to the facts at the department of justice. when you asked me about communications with the president, i as a lawyer don't get to make the decision on whether i can reveal private conversations. other people make that decision. >> that was then. we like questions around here, so we showed it to you again. that was virginia democratic

congressman gerry connolly asking one of the key questions for anyone looking into the capitol insurrection. what happened inside the doj as trump and his allies were trying desperately to sow doubt about the election results. as we have been discussing since the capitol attack, he is speaking out, testifying to congress and the inspector general of doj about the pressure campaign that took place at the highest levels of the justice department after january 6th. but it comes after democrats during that hear we just played for you back in may, you also stayed silent during donald trump's second impeachment trial when house impeachment managers tried to paint a picture of an ex-president who was willing to do anything to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power. >> the president had tried everything in his power to seize the -- everything in his attempt to seize power from the rightful victor of the election.

president trump's extraordinary actions grew increasingly more desperate. you saw him go from pursuing claims in the courts to threatening state and local election officials to then attacking members of the congress in the senate to compromising our justice department, and then to attacking the republican vice president. it was only because all of these people stayed strong and refused president trump that our republic held fast and the will of the electorate was seen through. and at this point, president donald j. trump ran out of nonviolent options to maintain power. >> joining our conversation is democratic congresswoman from pennsylvania, madeleine dean. she serves on the house judiciary committee and was an impeachment manager in donald trump's second impeachment trial. i don't know whether to laugh or cry when i have to separate who was a manager in the first impeachment trial and who was the manager in the second impeachment trial, but i wanted to ask you today if this would

have made a difference. i mean this was a bipartisan vote to impeach and a bipartisan vote to convict donald trump both times, but even more bipartisan in the senate the second time. i wonder if senator dick durbin was on last hour, he described seven hours of testimony from mr. rosen who was very forthcoming. do you think seven hours of testimony from the most senior official at the justice department might have been the difference between acquittal and conviction? >> well, thank you for having me on, nicolle. it is always good to be with you. i wonder. certainly this testimony is extraordinarily important, and the difference now is that late, i think it was last month, the new department of justice released former members of the trump administration department of justice to speak if they wanted to, to house oversight and to the senate judiciary committee, which, of course, they did over the weekend. prior to that they were operating under trump's

department of justice. so while i wish we could have had that testimony, it might have made a difference, but, remember, we had testimony that was very damning of the president doing the very same thing, polling the -- excuse me, the department of state, raffensperger and saying, i just need you to find me 11,780 votes. >> right. >> when i heard that testimony and then we heard the president say that in impeachment trial number two, you heard a gasp from the senators. they literally gasped. one of them said, who is going to be convicted for that. they meant in a court not their own. so while i wish we could have made the difference, i wish we could have had this testimony, what i would rather say is i thank mr. rosen for voluntarily coming forward and offering this testimony to the senate judiciary committee. i certainly look forward to that report. of course, the house, congress, will be interested in talking

with him, mr. donoghue as well who has the contemporaneous note that remembers what the president says, just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and congressional republicans. >> do you think that it makes the select committee's work and its bipartisan nature with liz cheney and adam kinzinger and now former congressman denver riggleman joining as a technical advisor, do you think it helps them draw witnesses like mr. rosen if that's where their investigation leads them? and do you think he should testify before the select committee? >> i certainly hope he will, and i think the construction of this committee under all of the circumstances and all of the challenges that we have faced in putting together a committee, i think it is an extraordinary committee that will do extraordinary work, as evidenced by the first day of testimony by the four police officers. so absolutely i look forward to their work. i know it is not going to be

easy, but i look forward to more people like jeffrey rosen coming forward voluntarily or if they need a subpoena, coming forward to correct the record, to make sure this never happens again. this is not a political matter. this is not a democrats versus republicans. this is about our democracy. what happened on january 6th and all of the events leading up to it, imagine, i think, former president trump probably made it a full time job to make such phone calls wherever he could, whether it was to states or inviting legislators to the white house. >> right. >> he was desperate to retain power. this is just one data point. the call to mr. rosen is just one data point that i think will be among many that shows his corruption, abuse of power and all things unamerican. >> it is interesting, too. i mean mr. rosen seems to have testified in a forthcoming

manner about unauthorized contacts between the ex-president and mr. clark. i mean there was clearly a process, and, you know, you heard this from jim comey, he wrote about it and talked about it. he tried to have a process so the president wasn't always calling the fbi director to tell him to let flynn go. the failure of any process to protect institutions from being politicized seems to be a pattern that keeps repeating itself. i wonder what you make of sort of the now detailed, anecdotal evidence of trump having his man at the highest levels at the justice department and, you know, do you wonder what would have happened if he had succeeded in getting rid of rosen and leaving clark inside? >> remember what had happened under attorney general barr. barr was complicit and helped the president move the big lie before the election and after the election until he couldn't take it anymore in the final days. so, again, i'm really delighted that we have such public servants who saved us from the

brink, but mr. trump is somebody who reveals that he never cared one wit for his oath of office. he never cared one wit for democracy and, in fact, was really interested much more in power grabbing. so what i hope people will see today is that there's a lot more work to be done, but this is not trivial. this is not unimportant, and that the house and the senate must continue its work to make sure that we understand exactly what happened here, what the president, the former president did with that department of justice was he politicized it for his own personal and political gain. fortunately, there were a couple of people who stood in his way. that shows the difference between public servants and the values they hold and political animals who simply want to hold on to power. sadly, we have seen that on the republican side of the house. they have become political animals who just surround the former failed president and protect his lies. i want to make the connection, too.

this is much bigger than january the 6th. this is about, of course, an election, but it is also about the big lies that the administration and complicit republicans have spread about covid. both have cost lives. january the 6th, you just covered it sadly and beautifully, have cost lives of police officers, whether in the line of duty or in the line of duty death-by-suicide. but now look at it with covid. i just had the chance to be with my four grandchildren over the course of the last few days and i'm so worried for them and all of our children. we have republican legislators, republican elected officials who are saying, don't get -- don't wear a mask, you don't have to get the vaccine. putting our children at risk. our children are not eligible for the vaccine. the adults around them are, and i hope that every adult around them gets the vaccine to protect

our children from the devastating effects of covid and now the first variant, delta. who knows what is next? these folks are responsible and they are costing lives. >> it is so interesting. all of the data that i have seen suggests that where children are getting sick, they're getting sick in unvaccinated households. you're right. it is what adults can do to protect children. congresswoman madeleine dean, thank you for making time for us today. it is nice to see you. when we return, a major new report on climate change warns that a hotter future is now unavoidable. there's a small but shrinking window to prevent the most terrifying worst case scenario. that story is next. ah, there's no place like panera. enjoy the toasty, saucy chipotle chicken avocado melt on freshly baked bread. panera. order on the app today.

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this weekend the dixie fire, which has ravaged nearly 500,000 acres all across northern california, became the second largest fire in the state's history. the fire, which began almost a month ago on july 14th, has destroyed more than 400 buildings and remains only 21% contained as of last night. the tragedy in california comes as the u.n. has released a new climate report that paints a bleak picture for earth's future, all of our future. summing up the report, "the new york times" writes this, quote, nations have delayed curbing their fossil fuel emissions for so long that they could no longer stop global warming dpr intensifying over the next 30 years, though there is still a short window to prevent the most

harrowing future. that's only the beginning. even if nations started sharply cutting emissions today, total global warming is likely to rise around 1.5 degrees celsius within the next two decades, a hotter future that is now essentially locked in. joining our conversation, david plouffe, former obama campaign manager. luck us for us, an msnbc political analyst. plus sam stein, white house editor for "politico" and lucky for us also an msnbc contributor. this feels like one of those things where i guess people on the front lines fighting could say, you know, we told you so, but it is also such a human tragedy. i wonder, sam stein, what your reactions were? i know you have covered this a long time, today's u.n. report? >> well, it is both deeply, deeply unsettling and totally predictable. we have put off a real discussion on what to do about climate change for a couple of

decades now. we are in a sort of political paralysis when it comes to legislative solutions about this. the main vehicle that we have to address climate change appears to be the reconciliation package that we will see the next couple of days, if not weeks, but there are some real questions about whether we're going to devote the resources to fighting climate change through that legislative vehicle and, honestly, what collectively we can do if we're not marshaling resources from other countries as well. so it is alarming. it is also something that at this point we should expect. we've not done anything to address the severity of this crisis even as we are constantly reminded by real-world events about the tragedy that's unfolding in real-time. >> david plouffe, let me be blunter. before covid and masks and

vaccines revealed that our politics were so broken it was going to kill people and before a deadly insurrection wasn't a deadly insurrection at all on one side of our political divide, we were killing the planet. i mean the first science-based crisis the world faced to be grossly politicized including by people i worked for, and i know that, i know that's the elephant in the room, but this was one of the first tragedies to be put in motion by our country's political divisions. >> yeah. well, i think just following on sam's point, i think it is going to take a lot of effort for us all to recalibrate. this is our new normal. it is here. okay. the floods, the fires, the drought, the deadly storms, what's happening to humanity and our economy, it is here. this is our new normal. the question is how bad does it get over the next two or three decades. yeah, nicolle, you have asked the question, we've had the conversation, kind of are we up

to this as a country to save our democracy, to beat this pandemic and get ready for the next one. of course, this is the big enchilada, even bigger than those two. you know, i live in california. i'm in massachusetts today. one thing that does concern me, there's a lot of discussion out there obviously about going to mars and other planets, like basically waving the white flag and carbon capture. let's all pray there's a hail mary on carbon capture but we can't take our eye off the ball. there's a lot we can do now to reduce emissions, which we have to do. i do worry a little bit. it is too soon to just grasp these really, really desperate long-term plays. it is almost to use a football analogy, yes, sometimes if it is fourth and 30 and 70 yards to the end zone, it is the last play, once a decade somebody makes that completion, but the planet cannot have that kind of risky behavior riding on it. yeah, again, i think this is where a third to a fourth of the

country is holding us hostage because they don't believe in climate change and don't think we should do anything about it. that's the same thing with our democracy, with the pandemic, with immigration reform, and that's the tale of our politics today. >> it sure is. we will stay on it. when we return president biden's bipartisan infrastructure plan is on the verge of being passed by the u.s. senate, and that is despite his predecessor's desperate and rather pathetic attempts to get republicans to derail it. we will tell you about it next. now, we all know progressive offers 24/7 protection,

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for four seemingly endless years under the former guy's administration, infrastructure week was the butt of all jokes. what would happen, who would get indicted instead of infrastructure happening, what would be in the bill? now under new administration and a new president, the senate is inching closer to passing a $1 trillion bipartisan bill, which is expected to happen tomorrow morning. it should come as no surprise then that the disgraced, twice-impeached ex-president is really, really mad about his successor's big, huge, bipartisan win. in a statement released from his save america pac by carrier pigeon, trump warned senators to, quote, think twice about voting for the bill. david and sam are back. sam, this is like almost comic, but it is interesting that this is what makes him feel politically threatened. >> yeah. i mean we did some reporting on this and, as you can imagine, a lot of this is just plain old

ego. he had four years to do this. he billed himself as a builder in addition to being president, and infrastructure really became a running punch line for his administration. so for him to turn around and watch not only as president biden inches closer to getting it done, but as the same republican senators who didn't get it done for him participate in passing it through the senate, it grates on him, it annoys him. he has ratcheted up the pressure. what is telling for me is how little the pressure has mattered. what we saw yesterday was 17 republican senators vote for this measure, which is a fairly robust bipartisan -- that came even as donald trump was imploring them not to do it. so, you know, if you are donald trump and you are sitting there, you are not only facing the embarrassment of not having infrastructure passed under your watch, but then to turn around and watch the senators do it

even though you are urging them not to is doubling embarrassing. from our understanding it has been quite frustrating. >> you know, i mean, david plouffe, it is that. it is everything sam has reported on and articulated, but for a guy who the only bridge he built was from his his pre-even to the insurrection there at the capitol, and it's something tangible biden can run on, and like checks that showed up in your bank account and needles that showed up in your arm and let you go about the world even in the scary times of the delta variant, these are tangible duh liveables the white house thinks it can run on. >> no question. and trump will be really upset, because for years there will be groundbreaking for new projects and signs up about the jobs created, and you have to look at it a two-part play. then you have the other spending

package that will pass not with bipartisan support or maybe little, but i know the democrats will get it done. i know there's a lot of concern about can you get it done? democrats have to understand, this is it. i hope and pray they are able to do a carveout of the filibuster for voting rights legislation, and once you get the big pieces done you know there's not going to be much major legislation done until 2023, maybe the lame dumb of 2022, and so as you know, nicole, you work on your schedule. how do you talk about what we did on the economy? you go to the roads and bridge and broadband and the grid. the storytelling in the district, you will never get to them all. and the recovery act of '09, when that got passed you were still hemorrhaging jobs. unemployment rate was north of 10%. the economy was recovering and

you are doing it at a time when people are saying, this is another piece of how we digout from the pandemic recession. >> literally and figurative. thank you to both of you for spending time with us today. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. what happens when we welcome change? we can transform our workforce overnight out of convenience, or necessity. we can explore uncharted waters, and not only make new discoveries, but get there faster, with better outcomes. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions,

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>> welcome to "the beat." we are going to get into the new testimony, and we will hear shortly on that and it's a big and important story we are staying on because it matters, and i want you to know that's coming up. we begin with the top story of covid surging across the united states, especially where republican policies are making things worse. i want to begin with the facts and the humanity of a story that sometimes can get lost in the numbers. there were members of a florida church, six of them, that died in the last week and a half of covid, and none were vaccinated, and four were described as healthy in their 30s. let's listen to their pastor. >> it's definitely taken a toll on us. some have been extremely close to us and to watch some of these people in the prime of their