it is thursday, august 12th. we have a lot to get to. we start specifically with covid and vaccines. right now the u.s. is averaging more than 700,000 doses being given out every single day. that's good news. the highest we have seen in a month. and new government announcements will push that number even higher. on wednesday, the cdc adjusted its guidance for pregnant women and is now recommending they do get vaccinated. new research shows there is no increased risk of miscarriage from the vaccine. but pregnant women are at higher risk of severe disease if they catch covid. and big news for booster shots. today the fda is expected to authorize a third dose of vaccine for people who compromised immune systems. but there is new research out that raises serious questions about whether the rest of us are going to need that booster sought as well. the mayo clinic studied vaccine effectiveness over a six-month period and found that by the end the pfizer vaccine only stopped

infections 42% of the time. modern moderna's was 67%. that was for infection. both vaccines provided very strong protection against hospitalizations and deaths. i want to dig into all of this and bring in kerry sanders in ft. lauderdale, florida. mayor steve adler is joining us from austin, texas. and from the children's hospital in philadelphia is on the fda vaccine advisory committee so i have a whole lot of questions for you, doctor, if i got the pfizer vaccine and i hear it is only 42% effective, i'm a little freaked out. can you give us some context? how worried should we be? >> not worried. i think what you want from these vaccines you is want them to protect you against moderate severe critical disease. the kind of disease that caused you to seek medical appointment or to go to the hospital or worse. and this vaccine, these vaccines, the mrna and

johnson&johnson remain very good at doing that. you can't expect this kind of vaccine also to be highly effective against highly asymptomatic, that's good for the rotovirus or flu vaccine. you can get control of this infection by just having protection against moderate severe critical disease. so i think when people are holding up the bar of trying to get protection against asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic, that's too high a bar. i think we are scaring ours unnecessarily. >> is the answer at some point we will need booster shots sooner than later? similar to flu shot? i get one every fall? >> flu is a moving target. the surface protein of flu is always mutating so that you need a yearly vaccine. that's not going to be this vaccine. what you want is you want a good immune logical memory, i suspect you will need a booster when you

see despite people fully vaccinated, less than 3% are killed by this virus. that's not happening. i think we would need a booster dose in a few days -- i'm sorry in a few years, certainly not every year. >> mayor take us to boston. what's the covid situation where you are? >> we have, obviously, the surge, what that's resulting in is hospitals that don't have space and room and staff for everyone that needs to come in. we're fighting as hard as we can to change behaviors in the community. we know that vaccines are effective. we are trying to get the community to greater and greater adopt that in every way we can. >> pair, you have issued a mask mandate for your schools and your public buildings, despite the governor saying that you

cannot. now governor and the attorney general are promising to sue you and other officials who impose these mandates. here's what i don't get. why on earth is this fight even happening? aren't there more important things, lives lost, learning lost, to focus on rather than this mask wearing? why is this giant debate that can end up in lawsuits? >> it's outrageous that we're focused on the wrong thing here. frankly, the threat of a lawsuit is nothing compared to the threat that our kids could get sick. we're following the doctors and the data. and it's getting confused with following donors. so as long as we stay focused on listening to the doctor's data, we will do what it takes to keep people safe. that's all that we're focused on here. but it is the political issue and obviously that's getting in the way not only with vaxing but vaccinationles. what is so frustrating is a year

ago the enemy was the virus. now we have vaccines and we're the enemy. and it is a preventible surge for you right now. that itself what communities need to be focused on. >> they certainly do. kerry, take us to florida. i know you've got one of the worst covid surges in the u.s. yet we're not united. officials there much like in texas are fighting over masks in schools. what is going on? it's baffling? >> well, we're here in a school that will resume next week and right now in broward county, the school superintendent and the school board have decided they're going to defy the governor's rule. he says there can be no masked mandate, here they say, you know what, we will have pa mask mandate no matter what the governor says. the governor has a threat. it looks like he is going to carry out that threat. which is he is going to tike away the salary of the school superintendent as well as school board and there is the potential of taking away the state money that comes to the county per

student. that's $9,000 per student. so when you look at counties and we can look to the south of miami-dade, the fourth largest school district in the country that has yet to decide whether they're going to have a mask mandate, although it certainly appears they're leaning in that direction. we're finding that there are very vocal communities here who want to see the mask mandate while at the same time in parts of the state saying we don't need the government to tell us what to do. interestingly, most of the protests we have seen have been people saying let parents choose, let kids choose. for the first time we have seen the other side organized holding a protest in miami-dade. listen to what these parents had to say. >> i have a 10-year-old in 5th grade and she's eager to return back to school. but i am fearful because i don't want her catching covid-19 at school and bringing it home to

our 1-year-old an infant. that's why i am standing out here to let them know that there is a lot more parents that really want mask mandates, vaccines, and the option of remote learning. >> reporter: an interesting twist in all of this, there is a scholarship in florida the hope scholarship where kids are in public school and they feel like they have been bullied. they can leave the school and take with them their state money to a private school. and you do not have to prove that a child was bullied. increasingly, we are seeing across the state, parents who don't want to have mask mandates are pulling their kids out of schools like here in broward to go to private schools, taking with them that $9,000 per student state money with them to the private schools, stephanie. >> so school superintendents are going to get their salaries pulled, but parents who say their kids are being pressured into wearing a mask can take that cash and use it to go to

private school? that is something else, florida. doctor. >> it's manipulating a system. i'm sorry, stephanie. was approved for kids under 12 you are on the bored that's goi board that's eventually going to have to sign off on it i have one of those kids under 12 and i'm waiting for you. >> it's hard to know the studies involve between 4,000 and 7,000 children the fda will do this at its own obviously, they have certain guidelines. they want these companies in terms of safety and efficacy. i certainly hope we have the

vaccine by noce later than late fall. as wer move into fall and wint, this virus will spread more easily. children less than 12 years of age have one way to protect themselves and that's with masks, which makes it all the more infuriating when you see ron desantis take this only weapon they have and not allow them to use it. it's being done purely for political purposes and put these children in harm's way unnecessarily. >> in your city of philadelphia, they're calling on businesses to require proof of vaccination or require masks. they're calling these vaccine passports at this point. what's why your reaction to this? good idea? more pressure for businesses. >> i think it's a great idea. i think it could be used as a tool for marketing. i certainly would feelin better walking into a restaurant or bar if i knew everyone in there had to be vaccinated. we have only 50% of people in this country who have been vaccinated.

other countries are in the mid 80, low 90 range and have largely gotten this pandemic under control. what do we do when 25 to 30% of the population says no, thanks, i don't want to get vaccines. you have to compel people with vaccine mandates or in a nicer way with these sort of vaccine certificates or passports. i think it's the only way to go at this point. >> i want to bring in co-owner of turini bakery, who will have to implement these new rules. businesses in philly have to require masks or proof of vaccination. now, as a customer, i want to go to places that i know are safe, but for you, you're the one who has to actually follow through with these rules. do you think it's a good idea or bad odidea? >> well, i mean, businesses are dealt with another curveball once again. it seems like they just keep coming.

we went from baker to bouncer. we barely have enough people to service our customers right now. and to actually thinkar to put someone at the door to be checking vaccination cards is just mind boggling. we haved resorted to masks. our employees are most vaccinated, 98%. some have not been because of medical reasons, but we cannot be carding people at the door. number one, we don't have the manpower to do h it. and most importantly, we feel that, you know, it's a violation of their civil liberties to actually present t that at the door to come into our store for business. >> but if you ran a bar, you would have to card them if they wanted to come in and drink. these are the rules. they're meant to keep people safe. how is that a violation of their civil liberties?

>> well, i mean, that's my own personal opinion. from our business standpoint, we feel we are following the rules. we are rule followers. we are not -- we have the option from the city to require our customers to wear masks or to present a vaccination card. we feel that requiring masks is something that, you know, is following the rules and will be effective. >> how has your staff responded? it's got to be hot in that bakery, especially right now. what'ses philly, 100 degrees today? >> yeah. a code red right now. heat index is supposed to be touching around 105, 110 degrees. our bake shop is not air conditioned. it's all original. we're celebrating 100 years right now's but it's very hot bk there. we'reer trying to drink lots of liquids when wets can. this is just one of the things that we have to deal with. it seems like businesses are struggling so much right now with so many different challenges, whether it'sst ingredient costs, labor shortage. right now our store is closed.

normally we're open from 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. we had to switch to eight-hour shifts because we simply don't have the employees. our store is closed right now. that's why i'm in an empty store. we have ourr challenges. >> ouwow, do you think it is gog to get easier over time once we have covid behind us? the idea behind the vaccine mandate is to finally kick this thing. >> i do. i think the delta variant, at some point, is going to peak. i'm hoping it will be in early fall. according to some of the experts that i hear on your station, i do hear that the delta variant is declining in certain areas where it has peakededed. slightly declining. and if that is a thing to come, we might be able to get through this a lot easier than we have been, you know, challenged over the past 18 months. >> all right.8 vinnie, good luck to you. you've got one l heck of a grea bakery. >> thank you. >> i'll visit it again next time i'm in philly.

>> please, people, try to support small businesses. we have a mail-order business and try to supplement that with our retail challenges. termin.com. support small businesses. they needor your help now. >> amen to that. vinnie, good toha see you. thank you for joining us. something we talked about yesterday. we mentioneded randi weingarten, head of the american federation of teachers union was on this show and had not said she supports a vaccination mandate for teachers. she told us that last week. we're here to skrup date you. her stance has moved. sunday she told my colleague chuck todd she thinks circumstances have changed and she now supports a mask mandate for teachers and we'll continue to stay on top of that story. largest single wildfire in california history continues to rage as a heat wave impacts millions from coast to coast. we'll be live on the ground with the latest. many americans are nervous

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developing this morning, we are following a triple weather threat from coast to coast. we're talking wildfires out west, extremely dangerous heat, impacting 195 million people across the country and potentially disastrous tropical system taking aim at the state of florida.

tropical depression fred could start making impact in south florida as early as tomorrow. team of rrps reporters following all of it. emilie ikeda is in california. >> reporter: forecasted dry lightning and officials are having to juggle numerous variables at this point. first and foremost, extinguishing that massive dixie fire. secondly, these bone-dry conditions and preparing for what they're describing will be a very, very long wildfire season. after the currently 11 large wildfires burning in california are stipg wished they're expecting to deal with more. one local sheriff explains a

single blade of grass could fuel further flames. for downs like this in greenville they're having to consider the recovery process. they'll be sending safety crews in here the next week to secure the area before then escorting residents back here to what's left of their homes, sifting through the ash and the rubble. we met with one volunteer firefighter who kind of got early access. he explored his home or really a pile of ash for the first time and walked away with just a few items. still, he returns to the front lines of the fire every afternoon. >> i'm just one of many people who lost everything. there was a beautiful church over here. these houses here were just beautiful. you know, well kept. i don't know if you can see the garden back here. that was the neighbor's house. just a beautiful two-story

house, beautiful garden. it's gone. >> reporter: the dixie fire has incinerated several hundred structures so far, many here in greenville. >> jake, let's talk about the punishing heat across the country. how hot are we talking about up there? >> reporter: we're looking at the possibility of 95-degree weather. that doesn't mean anything to people from a place like florida or texas. here in seattle, it is an indescribably strange thing. seattle is one of the least air conditioned cities in the nation. only roughly half of homes here have any form of air conditioning. literally the structures are not built for this type of thing. we walked around the city, speaking to pizza restaurants,

bar owners saying they're going to shut down in order to keep people safe. that's what they learned from the last round of triple-digit temperatures we saw from three days in june. listen to how one bar owner who described being in a kitchen where you could literally cut the air with a knife last time described what it is to shut down this time. >> shutting down is, i mean -- i want to say it's for me but really it's for the safety of my staff, safety of the community. i don't want my staff to be there in there when it's really hot or the community to be in there when it's unbearable. the least of it is a heat stroke. >> behind me, stephanie, you can see a vague line of haze there. unfortunately that haze is the other threat coming seattle's way. that's the smoke from forest fires. it has been advancing on the city in just the minutes we've been standing here. that is the other problem. we'll be looking at suffocating

temperatures, city with not enough cooling for everyone and now it may be that the air becomes choked with smoke as we get into these record temperatures today and tomorrow. stephanie? >> my gosh. jake, stay safe where you are. emilie and jake, thank you very much. defunding the police, you probably saw cory booker's viral rant as the senate voted 99- 0 against defunding theply. in response to that, republican josh hawley introduced an amendment to put mormon nye place and democratic whip dick durbin was happy to point something out. >> let's go a step farther. let's fund them. put 100,000 new cops on the streets to protect our families, to protect our children. i urge a yes vote on the amendment and ask for the yays

and nays. >> it's been an historic day in the united states senate. we started bypassing a bipartisan infrastructure bill that made history and now the senator from missouri is finally coming around to support the cops hiring program supported by senator joe biden in 1994. signed by 37 democrats for the cops program. do you know how many republicans signed the letter? none. but with your amendment tonight, clearly, you've come around. the republicans are joining the democrats in supporting joe biden's cops program. you are right. >> ooh, that is what the kids call a sick burn. senator hawley's amendment to hire 100,000 law enforcement officers passed, 95-3. that's what i call bipartisan in action. coming up, democrats are pushing a combined $4.5 trillion in spending as more americans are expressing their concerns

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right now almost everything is getting more expensive, which is a problem for everyday americans and the white house is addressing it. consumer prices jumped more than

5% over the last year in july, but, remember, last year things were shut down. but you can see it everywhere. can you see it in the grocery store, with the cost of milk, eggs, chicken, all up from a year ago. it comes just as president biden needs nearly every democrat to pass his massive $3.5 trillion spending package. moderates like senator joe manchin are worried this human infrastructure package, second package, could overheat the economy, leading to we've even higher prices. now the white house wants to reframe the inflation did he bait. joe biden says there is room for improvement. joining me now to discuss, white house economic director, brian deese. brian it's not one or the other. we need new infrastructure in this country. at the very same time, we've got an inflation issue. what are we doing about it? >> well, stephanie, it's great to be here to talk to you about it. it's really an important issue. both of these issues are important. look, the president takes the issue of cost for american

people incredibly seriously. his economic strategy, economic philosophy is based on sitting at that kitchen table and trying to figure out how to make ends meet. we've had an issue with middle class families facing increase costs for many years in this country. the core things that middle class families look to need, to spend on, housing, health care, child care, prescription drugs, for years these costs have been going up. and have been squeezing families' budgets. so a core element of our plan is to try to make long-term investments and long-term reforms to make sure we can bring down those costs. take prescription drugs. the president will be meeting on this issue today, allowing medicare to negotiate for prices, will bring down costs of prescription drugs and towelly save taxpayers' money at the same time. housing, one of the biggest expenses families face we face a decades-long. when we do it we'll reduce

housing prices and make it easier for families move where there's job opportunities. right now a lot of families are stuck. there may be a job opportunity in a different area, but they can't afford to live there because of the housing. so our plan is calibrated to try to address those costs that we know that american families are facing. and to do so in a way that's spread out over time and won't increase inflation, it will actually reduce price pressures in the economy. >> one of the challenges, whether it's business leaders or government leaders, is we live in a world of short termism. what you're creating are long-term solutions which we absolutely need. in the short term, how people feel impacts how they vote almost immediately. so, how do you address these inflation needs right now if the next bill gets passed? we are talking $4 trillion. it could overheat the economy in the near term and that could hurt you in the middterms. >> well, first, it's important we're looking in the near term,

too. if we were to compare to where we were a year ago, we're in a much better place than we were a year ago. prices have increased but that's because the economy is not shut down. it's because we're creating 4 million jobs, our economy is growing faster than it has in 40 years. we're in a much better spogs than we were a year ago, thanks in large part to the steps that president biden has put in place. over the long terp, i want to take issue with your question about 4 trillion and overheating the economy. investments in this plan are fundamentally different from this idea of short-term stimulus. they're not actually designed to make investments in the very immediate term that would increase demand in the short term. they're investments like infrastructure, physical infrastructure, over the course of six, eight, ten years, to build affordable child care across the country. that's not about putting demand into the economy this year. it's about giving families security that over the next decade they're going to be able to afford child care costs.

frankly, if you look at the economic evidence, other countries that have done this, what you do when you make those investments, you increase labor supply. that's a technical way of saying parents, mothers, we have almost 2 million women out of the workforce in this pandemic. that's an absolute crisis. if we don't fix that over the long term, we're all going to be worse off. we can make these investments over the long term, increase labor supply. that actually reduces price pressures in the economy over the long term. yet we're obviously in the middle of a political debate about this. the economics are quite strong. but i would note on the politics, the reason why this plan is popular, broadly popular, even a fox news poll, 60% of the american public supports this. and they support the individual components even more is because it speaks to practical issues they face in their lives, the cost of prescription drugs, ability to afford child care. these are issues middle-class families have been wanting solutions on for years.

>> we did not have affordable child care in the country before the pandemic. it's now even worse. this is an opportunity to create something stronger and better in the long term. i do want to show you what some voters, who are feeling that pinch that president biden talk ed about yesterday, i want to share what some of them said. >> i can't hardly afford the same food i bought a year ago. >> $200 doesn't go very far in the grocery store anymore. >> walking out with less and less groceries and seem to be paying more and more. >> since i started, think about budgeting, saving a little bit extra, taking the bus more, taking public transit. >> in that same fox poll you just referenced 86% of voters also say they're worried about inflation now. the majority of them are paying more for food, gas, housing. how do we help those people feel okay now? >> well, even as we put in place

these long-term plans there's steps we're taking now to address this. number one, supply chain bottlenecks that because this economy has come back and demand has come back strongly, keeping goods from moving as quickly as they could and actually keeping prices up. so, we are, whether it's with computer chips and semi conductors, talking to international counterparts to try to make sure that chips are getting here to our producers. our ports. we're engaging with the port of long beach and l.a. to make sure those blockages that are there -- we're doing everything we can to encourage those to get unstuck. that's category one. category two, we have to look at any competitive practices in our economy that are leading to higher prices than consumers should pay. for example, in gas prices, we've seen a phenomenon where oil prices go up and gas prices shoot up. but when oil prices come down, gas prices don't. that's not how a competitive market would normally work.

i sent a letter to the ftc yesterday, encouraging her to use all available tools make sure that legal activity, market manipulation, price gouging is not happening and anti-competitive pricing am these industries. we heard about food there much that's an area we've seen consolidation, a smaller number of producers who are making record profits. first half of 2021, those companies made record profits and we got asked questions about why in the context of record profits are they increasing prices, and what can we do about it? so we're on the case in the short term here. but also, you know, need to make the case to the american people that as this economy recovers, as these price increases dissipate, which nearly all outside analysts expect them to, we've got to invest for the long term. we can't expect an outcome that says we're going to let those 2 million women who left the labor force not participate in the economy going forward. that would be bad for price pressures in the future.

even as we're focused in the short term, we'll make these long-term investments and pay for them, too. >> it sounds like this white house is multitasking. please come back soon, brian. we always want to cover this. coming up, one start-up said it has the technology to predict when and where covid will spread weeks before patients show up in hospitals. he says even better than the cdc data. it could help prevent the next wave. we'll talk to the company's ceo next. l talk to the company's ce next paper money. it's the future! get outta here. i'm leaving with my gold. it's not crazy. help me, mother. it's an omelet. just crack an egg. [sfx: radio being tuned] welcome to allstate. ♪ [band plays] ♪ a place where everyone lives life well-protected. ♪♪

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♪ ♪ even if you had to miss your quince. there's always your quince plus one. ♪ like you, my hands are everything to me. but i was diagnosed with dupuytren's contracture. and it got to the point where things i took for granted got tougher to do. thought surgery was my only option.

turns out i was wrong. so when a hand specialist told me about nonsurgical treatments, it was a total game changer. like you, my hands have a lot more to do. learn more at factsonhand.com today. my auntie called me. like you, my hands have a lot more to do. she said uncle's had a heart attack. i needed him to be here. your heart isn't just yours. protect it with bayer aspirin. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. we're all watching this play out. the delta variant is spreading fast. this morning, we need a plan before it actually gets worse. axios reporting that the u.s. is now relying more on outside resources for data as officials are frustrated with the cdc. because of it, one company has a solution. a startup that forecast disease

outbreaks using real-time health data and they're working find outbreaks before they happen. they predicted covid increase ms. new york city before the first death last year along with several other states and are already sounding the alarm about sick children. 2 to 9-year-olds soaring compared to the last four years. i want to dig deeper and bring in kinset founder. your company tries stop the spread by using more data. you beat the cdc repeatedly. how, why? conventional wisdom would say that cdc has the fastest, best data. how did you get it? >> the logic is simple. you speak to millions of households real time when they first fall ill, and ask them how they're feeling, what symptoms they have. you'll be ahead of the health care system. the transmission has occurred days or weeks earlier.

and that's what we're doing. illness response apps that coach people, parents when they first fall ill, it asks a series of questions. we help you understand what to do, how sick you are and what's going around your local area. and when you zoom out and look at millions of households, you can now see trends. you can see trends about where unusual transmission is occurring. you can see trends where there's severe symptoms. that's how we're getting ahead of the health care system to say, hey, there's an unusual outbreak here. it looks like cold or looks like covid or looks like a stomach bug. send the virologists in, send the test kis in. >> how do you find these millions of people? you did this in new york city, palm beach county. i got sick with covid, my whole family did. you and i didn't connect.

>> you can purchase one of our smart thermometers. we also give away our illness guidance apps and smart thermometers through this wonderful school program. it's free for schools, staff and parents can get a free kinsa illness response system, smart thermometer and the app. features come along with that school program. you get to see the level of illness at the school or in your child's grade. programs like that are proven to work. in one study we showed a 20% increase in absenteeism in that school program. that's how we're reaching the masses. we've been doing this six or seven years now. this is the kind of technology that our public health institutions and cdc needs to be using. the science and logic is really simple. if you can taco people when they first fall ill, well before they're sick enough to see a doctor and your lab, you have an opportunity to characterize that

illness and get ahead of it. to go back to the question i opposed when i first started kinsa, how do you stop an outbreak before it become an epidemic if you don't know where the symptoms are? >> i'm buyingt selling. why isn't the cdc? you got the technology. you now need access to the mass population and the cdc isn't working with you. why aren't they? >> we previous the cdc many, many times. i recently had a conversation with senior officials at the cdc and said hey, look at the data. as a reminder, as early as 2017, we predict the worst flu season 2 1/2 months ahead of everyone else. how do we collaborate? the answer i got back was we don't really work with the private sector. we don't work with technology startups. you should work with the cdc foundation. i have to tell you, that was extremely disappointing. this is the first time i'm speaking out about this

particular situation. it struck me in my head. i kept thinking wait a second, the science and logic are clear. makes sense. why are we not working together? because you don't want to work with the private sector. so i did my homework. i went and talked with other private sector ceos, much larger companies. remember, the cdc has received billions of dollars for things ranging from early warning to genomic sequencing. i heard a consistent story, they aren't really collaborating with the private sector. the days -- you tell me that the days of innovation being done in a government lab, that was the 1970s. that was 50 years ago. innovation today is being done by technology companies, startups in the private sector. and the idea of the cdc is such a brilliant one, institution that will help our country respond to disease but there needs to be better collaboration across communities and with the private sector if we're really going to get ahead of this i was aghast because we lived through

a pandemic and there's still not a willingness to embrace new technologies. if you want to rebuild the wheel, it will take the cdc decades and this is the time we need to be collaborating. it's doing the country a disservice by not creating those collaborations across the private sector and the cdc. and we immediate to mip that nip that in the bud and accelerate things. we don't have the time. i think we'll talk about it in a moment. there's a multi-demic coming right now, this season. >> you are right. we do not have time. we don't have any more time right now. please, come back soon. we did just live through a pandemic. we died through it, too. and it is time to work together to solve for this. inder singh, thank you for joining me today. please, come back soon. next he spent 15 years in prison for a crime he did not commit. this new law could have prevented it.

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shaquille brewster has been looking into all of this. check this out. >> as the bill was signed, swift was in tears, considering what he lost. >> this bill, i truly believe, could have saved my life. >> reporter: swift spent more than 15 years in prison, convicted of a rape and murder he didn't commit. lied to by detectives and coerced into a confession during an interrogation without his attorney or his parents. >> i was taken advantage of, and manipulated by the police. me being a 17-year-old, i was led to believe that if i worked with them or cooperated, i would go home. >> because they told you that? >> because they told me that. >> reporter: sb-2122, illinois becoming the first state to ban police from lying to or deceiving minors during interrogations. >> false confessions have played a role in far too many

convictions. >> reporter: legal infer state, deception used as a common police tactic for deck. >> we know once deception is employed innocent people feel absolutely cornered and are going to confess. >> reporter: innocence project reports one in people cleared through dna evidence had given a false confession. state senator robert peters introduced the bill. should it be considered landmark legislation to say you can't lie to kids in interrogations? >> it is a landmark piece of legislation. it's also sad and upsetting, because we shouldn't have been in this place in the first place. >> reporter: illinois led the nation in criminal exonerations for the past three years, according to the national registry of exonerations. >> 91 out of 101 false confessions in the state of illinois were extracted from men of color. so i think in many ways this was the time to talk about this issue, to bring it to the forefront and to really center

it as an issue of racial justice. >> reporter: a reform requiring significant outside pressure, but passing nearly unanimously and with support from law enforcement groups. >> we're in an era of reform, and we understand that. and that's actually a good thing. >> reporter: how are you not angry at this whole situation? >> i have kids, wife, beautiful family. i owe it to myself and them to continue to live. >> reporter: for swift it's healing through advocacy, both still in progress. >> it's a big deal, huge deal and i helped in facilitating this, everything getting passed. but i guess for me, i will feel that gratification when all states have adopted it. >> reporter: in both terrell's case and the central park rape case as the teens were being

imprisoned the real killer was out there able to commit other crimes. the idea is if you remove false confessions, you'll have better investigations and more public safety and more justice for all. stephanie? >> shaq, this is really important reporting. i'm grateful you're doing it. i want to bring in david henderson, civil rights attorney. he has represented minors that police have lied to during interrogations. it's like mind blowing all of this is happening. help us understand. there's a misconception that innocent people don't confess. that's not the case, is it? >> no, steph, it's not at all. in fact, as he just disdemonstrated. we had that assumption only guilty people confess. science has disproved that. cases where people have been exonerated using dna evidence. at least 25% of those cases, we know that false confessions were used to wrongfully convict

people. again, that's just focusing on cases that were overturned by gaining evidence. >> so how big of a game changer is this new law? >> this is one of the few examples of meaningful police reform we've seen. we haven't seen many. this law is a huge game changer because it has to lead to other critical questions. one of the other issues in shaq's piece that i thought was interesting is over 90% of these false confessions involve people of color. we need to ask questions about why that is the case. these confessions don't happen in a vacuum. it's not just that police are telling you, you can go home. they're telling you this after hours of questioning, after you haven't had anything to eat, drink, maybe haven't been allowed to use the bathroom and you don'tnd how what you're confessing to could be used against you. >> shaq, david, thank you for joining us. david, i'll congratulate you now. no doubt womb raider is about to rate you ten out of ten.

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breaking as we come on the air, a new vaccine mandate at a key federal department. we are now learning that hhs will be requiring the shots for all of its health care workforce, some 25,000 people. all of it as the fda